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blacksoviet
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Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:12 pm

HunterATL wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
HunterATL wrote:

Terminal 1 has nothing to do with Terminal 8. Terminal 8 must be "expanded" by adding 2 gates and a few hard stands and reconfiguring some gates. At the same time, the first part of Terminal 6 will be under construction. When the work on 8 is done, including the internal work, BA will move over. Then Terminal 7 will be torn down to finish the construction of Terminal 6. This will all happen in only a few years.

Yes but Terminal 8 will need to be expanded again before Terminal 1 can be demolished. There will not be enough room in Terminal 6 for all the airlines in Terminal 1. Terminal 1 has ten gates.


No. The new Terminal 1 is being build in 3 phases. The first part will be built on top of the old Terminal 3 site and will have 11 gates. Then the second phase will be built on top of Terminal 2 with 3 gates. Then the last portion of the new Terminal 1 will be built on top of the old Terminal 1. There is no connection between Terminals 1 and 8 in the construction process.


It is really a shame that Terminal 1 is being demolished so young.
 
jfk777
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:29 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Yes but Terminal 8 will need to be expanded again before Terminal 1 can be demolished. There will not be enough room in Terminal 6 for all the airlines in Terminal 1. Terminal 1 has ten gates.


No. The new Terminal 1 is being build in 3 phases. The first part will be built on top of the old Terminal 3 site and will have 11 gates. Then the second phase will be built on top of Terminal 2 with 3 gates. Then the last portion of the new Terminal 1 will be built on top of the old Terminal 1. There is no connection between Terminals 1 and 8 in the construction process.


It is really a shame that Terminal 1 is being demolished so young.


It is a shame but the JFK terminal situation has changed, Terminal One was built by AF, LH. JAL, and KAL because the IAB was awful and embarrassing. The first T1 was a "boutique" terminal for the four anchor airlines and others they had using their terminal. When Delta had T3 demolished and moved to T4 it took over lots of space for Foreign airlines and left JFK one whole terminal short of space. Many of those foreign airlines went to T1 which didn't really have the space for them, but they had to go somewhere.

The new T1 will be a huge modern terminal that JFK deserves on the sites of the present Terminals 1,2 and 3. It will have lots of space for the four anchor airlines and their partners and associated airlines. It will also return a terminal to the Pan AM Worldport site. Delta caused pain for everyone else at JFK, funny how Air France has stayed at T1 at their most important foreign airport.
 
dampfnudel
Posts: 596
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:22 pm

jfk777 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
HunterATL wrote:

No. The new Terminal 1 is being build in 3 phases. The first part will be built on top of the old Terminal 3 site and will have 11 gates. Then the second phase will be built on top of Terminal 2 with 3 gates. Then the last portion of the new Terminal 1 will be built on top of the old Terminal 1. There is no connection between Terminals 1 and 8 in the construction process.


It is really a shame that Terminal 1 is being demolished so young.


It is a shame but the JFK terminal situation has changed, Terminal One was built by AF, LH. JAL, and KAL because the IAB was awful and embarrassing. The first T1 was a "boutique" terminal for the four anchor airlines and others they had using their terminal. When Delta had T3 demolished and moved to T4 it took over lots of space for Foreign airlines and left JFK one whole terminal short of space. Many of those foreign airlines went to T1 which didn't really have the space for them, but they had to go somewhere.

The new T1 will be a huge modern terminal that JFK deserves on the sites of the present Terminals 1,2 and 3. It will have lots of space for the four anchor airlines and their partners and associated airlines. It will also return a terminal to the Pan AM Worldport site. Delta caused pain for everyone else at JFK, funny how Air France has stayed at T1 at their most important foreign airport.


Will there be a connection (indoor walkway) between T1 and T4? It would make it easier for DL/AF connections.
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
dstblj52
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:48 pm

dampfnudel wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:

It is really a shame that Terminal 1 is being demolished so young.


It is a shame but the JFK terminal situation has changed, Terminal One was built by AF, LH. JAL, and KAL because the IAB was awful and embarrassing. The first T1 was a "boutique" terminal for the four anchor airlines and others they had using their terminal. When Delta had T3 demolished and moved to T4 it took over lots of space for Foreign airlines and left JFK one whole terminal short of space. Many of those foreign airlines went to T1 which didn't really have the space for them, but they had to go somewhere.

The new T1 will be a huge modern terminal that JFK deserves on the sites of the present Terminals 1,2 and 3. It will have lots of space for the four anchor airlines and their partners and associated airlines. It will also return a terminal to the Pan AM Worldport site. Delta caused pain for everyone else at JFK, funny how Air France has stayed at T1 at their most important foreign airport.


Will there be a connection (indoor walkway) between T1 and T4? It would make it easier for DL/AF connections.

Yes when it will actually be built who knows.
 
atlflyer
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:54 pm

dampfnudel wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:

It is really a shame that Terminal 1 is being demolished so young.


It is a shame but the JFK terminal situation has changed, Terminal One was built by AF, LH. JAL, and KAL because the IAB was awful and embarrassing. The first T1 was a "boutique" terminal for the four anchor airlines and others they had using their terminal. When Delta had T3 demolished and moved to T4 it took over lots of space for Foreign airlines and left JFK one whole terminal short of space. Many of those foreign airlines went to T1 which didn't really have the space for them, but they had to go somewhere.

The new T1 will be a huge modern terminal that JFK deserves on the sites of the present Terminals 1,2 and 3. It will have lots of space for the four anchor airlines and their partners and associated airlines. It will also return a terminal to the Pan AM Worldport site. Delta caused pain for everyone else at JFK, funny how Air France has stayed at T1 at their most important foreign airport.


Will there be a connection (indoor walkway) between T1 and T4? It would make it easier for DL/AF connections.


Look at the link above. It’s all there. T4 and the new T1 will be connected. And all by 2025.
 
atlflyer
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:59 pm

Also here’s a link to more T1 renderings. Looks great.

https://www.pgal.com/projects/terminal- ... irport-jfk
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:39 am

Will there ever be a connection between Terminal 4 and Terminal 5?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:56 am

jfk777 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
HunterATL wrote:

No. The new Terminal 1 is being build in 3 phases. The first part will be built on top of the old Terminal 3 site and will have 11 gates. Then the second phase will be built on top of Terminal 2 with 3 gates. Then the last portion of the new Terminal 1 will be built on top of the old Terminal 1. There is no connection between Terminals 1 and 8 in the construction process.


It is really a shame that Terminal 1 is being demolished so young.


It is a shame but the JFK terminal situation has changed, Terminal One was built by AF, LH. JAL, and KAL because the IAB was awful and embarrassing. The first T1 was a "boutique" terminal for the four anchor airlines and others they had using their terminal. When Delta had T3 demolished and moved to T4 it took over lots of space for Foreign airlines and left JFK one whole terminal short of space. Many of those foreign airlines went to T1 which didn't really have the space for them, but they had to go somewhere.

The new T1 will be a huge modern terminal that JFK deserves on the sites of the present Terminals 1,2 and 3. It will have lots of space for the four anchor airlines and their partners and associated airlines. It will also return a terminal to the Pan AM Worldport site. Delta caused pain for everyone else at JFK, funny how Air France has stayed at T1 at their most important foreign airport.



It looks like Terminal 1 will only be 27 years old when demolition begins. I think that is shortest lifespan of any Terminal in JFK’s history. Perhaps the airlines in the Terminal One Group regret building it. They should have just waited three more years for the new IAB to get built and built Concourse B to it’s full length back in 2001.

Instead, they allowed Delta to take over T4 and now AF/KE/LH/JL will never be able to go back.
 
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Polot
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:30 am

blacksoviet wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:

It is really a shame that Terminal 1 is being demolished so young.


It is a shame but the JFK terminal situation has changed, Terminal One was built by AF, LH. JAL, and KAL because the IAB was awful and embarrassing. The first T1 was a "boutique" terminal for the four anchor airlines and others they had using their terminal. When Delta had T3 demolished and moved to T4 it took over lots of space for Foreign airlines and left JFK one whole terminal short of space. Many of those foreign airlines went to T1 which didn't really have the space for them, but they had to go somewhere.

The new T1 will be a huge modern terminal that JFK deserves on the sites of the present Terminals 1,2 and 3. It will have lots of space for the four anchor airlines and their partners and associated airlines. It will also return a terminal to the Pan AM Worldport site. Delta caused pain for everyone else at JFK, funny how Air France has stayed at T1 at their most important foreign airport.



It looks like Terminal 1 will only be 27 years old when demolition begins. I think that is shortest lifespan of any Terminal in JFK’s history. Perhaps the airlines in the Terminal One Group regret building it. They should have just waited three more years for the new IAB to get built and built Concourse B to it’s full length back in 2001.

Instead, they allowed Delta to take over T4 and now AF/KE/LH/JL will never be able to go back.

AF/KE/LH/JL are reaping financial rewards from T1’s busyness.

They don’t want to go back. That is why the Terminal One Group will continue with the new T1 and not be dissolved.
 
questions
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:27 am

jfk777 wrote:
It is a shame but the JFK terminal situation has changed, Terminal One was built by AF, LH. JAL, and KAL because the IAB was awful and embarrassing. The first T1 was a "boutique" terminal for the four anchor airlines and others they had using their terminal. When Delta had T3 demolished and moved to T4 it took over lots of space for Foreign airlines and left JFK one whole terminal short of space. Many of those foreign airlines went to T1 which didn't really have the space for them, but they had to go somewhere.


How many gates did T3 have? How many gates were added to T4B? Was there a net gain or lose with the demolition of T3 and expansion of T4?
 
questions
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:40 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Now T8 will be a real ghost town and T4 will really be bursting at the seams.

Latam has a substantial operation at JFK


You got that right.

I find the T4B concourse claustrophobic with all the people, moving sidewalks, beeping vehicles and low ceiling.

The Sky Club will be more than the zoo it already is. Far from a “premium” experience. And that men’s room. Eek.
 
questions
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:59 am

Polot wrote:
AF/KE/LH/JL are reaping financial rewards from T1’s busyness.

They don’t want to go back. That is why the Terminal One Group will continue with the new T1 and not be dissolved.


AF and KE do not want to join DL in T4?

JL does not want to join AA and BA in T8?
 
dbo861
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:36 am

Sorry if this has been mentioned, will the connector between T1 and T4 be after security or will passengers have to reclear TSA when transferring terminals?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:24 am

dbo861 wrote:
Sorry if this has been mentioned, will the connector between T1 and T4 be after security or will passengers have to reclear TSA when transferring terminals?

It would be pointless to have a connector before security. You may as well just take the Airtrain or walk on the sidewalk.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:41 am

questions wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
It is a shame but the JFK terminal situation has changed, Terminal One was built by AF, LH. JAL, and KAL because the IAB was awful and embarrassing. The first T1 was a "boutique" terminal for the four anchor airlines and others they had using their terminal. When Delta had T3 demolished and moved to T4 it took over lots of space for Foreign airlines and left JFK one whole terminal short of space. Many of those foreign airlines went to T1 which didn't really have the space for them, but they had to go somewhere.


How many gates did T3 have? How many gates were added to T4B? Was there a net gain or lose with the demolition of T3 and expansion of T4?


T3 had 19 gates. Three of those were mobile lounge gates. T3 had 16 jetway-equipped gates. Some of the gates in the rotunda were restricted to smaller, narrowbody aircraft like the MD-80 and the CRJ.

Were any of the 1970 expansion gates not capable of handling a 747?

I am not sure how many mainline gates were added with the T4B expansion but I believe all of them are able to handle a 747.
 
dampfnudel
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:59 am

atlflyer wrote:
Also here’s a link to more T1 renderings. Looks great.

https://www.pgal.com/projects/terminal- ... irport-jfk


I just read Munich Airport is handling operations at T1. While I’m a little disappointed that Fraport isn’t in charge, I’m relieved that it isn’t Berlin Airport. :D
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:45 am

blacksoviet wrote:
questions wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
It is a shame but the JFK terminal situation has changed, Terminal One was built by AF, LH. JAL, and KAL because the IAB was awful and embarrassing. The first T1 was a "boutique" terminal for the four anchor airlines and others they had using their terminal. When Delta had T3 demolished and moved to T4 it took over lots of space for Foreign airlines and left JFK one whole terminal short of space. Many of those foreign airlines went to T1 which didn't really have the space for them, but they had to go somewhere.


How many gates did T3 have? How many gates were added to T4B? Was there a net gain or lose with the demolition of T3 and expansion of T4?


T3 had 19 gates. Three of those were mobile lounge gates. T3 had 16 jetway-equipped gates. Some of the gates in the rotunda were restricted to smaller, narrowbody aircraft like the MD-80 and the CRJ.

Were any of the 1970 expansion gates not capable of handling a 747?

I am not sure how many mainline gates were added with the T4B expansion but I believe all of them are able to handle a 747.



The end gates on the extended finger were for smaller widebodies

Funny enough, the 747 gates had the nose of the airplane against the terminal glass

Really was cool to see

People hated that terminal on this site, but it was a marvel in its own way
 
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Polot
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:29 pm

questions wrote:
Polot wrote:
AF/KE/LH/JL are reaping financial rewards from T1’s busyness.

They don’t want to go back. That is why the Terminal One Group will continue with the new T1 and not be dissolved.


AF and KE do not want to join DL in T4?

JL does not want to join AA and BA in T8?

No they don’t, there are benefits to running your own terminal. It doesn’t matter much anyways, those airlines are primarily after NYC O&D traffic and can easily connect passengers to their American partners at other airports.

jfklganyc wrote:

People hated that terminal on this site, but it was a marvel in its own way

It was a cool little terminal that was completely and utterly outdated for decades. In the end JFK needs functioning buildings and not act as a museum of ancient terminals.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:37 pm

How many gates did Delta have in T4B before the 2013 expansion?
 
jfk777
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:27 am

blacksoviet wrote:
questions wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
It is a shame but the JFK terminal situation has changed, Terminal One was built by AF, LH. JAL, and KAL because the IAB was awful and embarrassing. The first T1 was a "boutique" terminal for the four anchor airlines and others they had using their terminal. When Delta had T3 demolished and moved to T4 it took over lots of space for Foreign airlines and left JFK one whole terminal short of space. Many of those foreign airlines went to T1 which didn't really have the space for them, but they had to go somewhere.


How many gates did T3 have? How many gates were added to T4B? Was there a net gain or lose with the demolition of T3 and expansion of T4?


T3 had 19 gates. Three of those were mobile lounge gates. T3 had 16 jetway-equipped gates. Some of the gates in the rotunda were restricted to smaller, narrowbody aircraft like the MD-80 and the CRJ.

Were any of the 1970 expansion gates not capable of handling a 747?

I am not sure how many mainline gates were added with the T4B expansion but I believe all of them are able to handle a 747.


All 1950/60's era JFK terminal "could" handle 747, DC-10's and L-1011's, some better than others. The Pan Am & TWA did handle them well since these were their own 747's and their own terminals had FIS stations. The IAB had 12 jetways built for the 747 with a third jetway for overwing use, rarely used. The EA terminal was a disaster for widebody planes, the concourses were low, built for walking up to prop planes. Eastern's terminal parked the L-1011's at the end of the concourse and passengers had to climb internal stairs that were awful to the jetways. British Caledonian flew their 747 to London Gatwick from there but customs had to be at the IAB.

The AA, UA and BA terminals handled 747 well, BA has been flying 747's to their own terminal 7 for 50 years, the only JFK terminal which can claim that since the TWA and PA terminals are dust.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:38 pm

Which gate at T7 does Iberia control?
 
dmorbust
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:32 am

Looks like it's happening, just announced by Delta: https://news.delta.com/planned-expansio ... -new-gates

Planned expansion at New York-JFK’s Terminal 4 to unify Delta operations, add 16 new gates
 
questions
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:02 am

dmorbust wrote:
Looks like it's happening, just announced by Delta: https://news.delta.com/planned-expansio ... -new-gates

Planned expansion at New York-JFK’s Terminal 4 to unify Delta operations, add 16 new gates


I wonder how the design has changed from this one a few years ago:

https://www.som.com/news/arup_teams_with_som_on_jfk_terminal_4_expansion

16 new gates seems like a lot.

T4A to T4B connections will be a bear! JFK Jitney running between concourses?

T4 will be quite the operation for Delta and it’s partners.
 
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tlecam
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:04 am

dmorbust wrote:
Looks like it's happening, just announced by Delta: https://news.delta.com/planned-expansio ... -new-gates

Planned expansion at New York-JFK’s Terminal 4 to unify Delta operations, add 16 new gates


Cool, expected but cool. Opens early 2023.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
StlHsvSfoSan
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:05 am

Are there any plans to rename/re-number the terminals, since so many of them will be demolished/consolidated ? (T2 / T3 / T6 / T7 gone, T1 / T4 / T5 / T8 remaining)
 
cpl22586
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:01 am

StlHsvSfoSan wrote:
Are there any plans to rename/re-number the terminals, since so many of them will be demolished/consolidated ? (T2 / T3 / T6 / T7 gone, T1 / T4 / T5 / T8 remaining)



I don't imagine that they will re-number the terminals since jetblue has spent a lot of money with the T5 branding. T3 just doesn't have the same ring to it. Also the new terminals being built are going by T6/T7. I am also sure Delta has spent a lot with Terminal 4 branding as well.

Another press release from the Governors office regarding the T4 expansion
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/govern ... mation-jfk
 
questions
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:01 am

cpl22586 wrote:
StlHsvSfoSan wrote:
Are there any plans to rename/re-number the terminals, since so many of them will be demolished/consolidated ? (T2 / T3 / T6 / T7 gone, T1 / T4 / T5 / T8 remaining)



I don't imagine that they will re-number the terminals since jetblue has spent a lot of money with the T5 branding. T3 just doesn't have the same ring to it. Also the new terminals being built are going by T6/T7. I am also sure Delta has spent a lot with Terminal 4 branding as well.

Another press release from the Governors office regarding the T4 expansion
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/govern ... mation-jfk


After the old terminals are demolished and just before the new terminals are completed, the terminals will be re-numbered. Current renderings of future terminals are using old numbering schemes to avoid confusion.

No airline at JFK is wedded to their terminal number. That’s just crazy talk.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:44 pm

I wonder if Delta will get some gate space in a newly constructed Terminal 1, the part that would occupy the already demolished WorldPort (?) Reason being there are a lot of planes parked at the former Terminal 3 area now, more than the 4 net gates can accommodate once Terminal 2 is demolished and Terminal 4 expanded. And perhaps just simply rebrand that new adjacent part (of Terminal 1) as Terminal 4.
 
dstblj52
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:57 pm

questions wrote:
cpl22586 wrote:
StlHsvSfoSan wrote:
Are there any plans to rename/re-number the terminals, since so many of them will be demolished/consolidated ? (T2 / T3 / T6 / T7 gone, T1 / T4 / T5 / T8 remaining)



I don't imagine that they will re-number the terminals since jetblue has spent a lot of money with the T5 branding. T3 just doesn't have the same ring to it. Also the new terminals being built are going by T6/T7. I am also sure Delta has spent a lot with Terminal 4 branding as well.

Another press release from the Governors office regarding the T4 expansion
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/govern ... mation-jfk


After the old terminals are demolished and just before the new terminals are completed, the terminals will be re-numbered. Current renderings of future terminals are using old numbering schemes to avoid confusion.

No airline at JFK is wedded to their terminal number. That’s just crazy talk.

They spent money advertising it so while there not married to it they would likely prefer to not change it especially if the only benefit is something logical like normal counting
 
tphuang
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:00 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
I wonder if Delta will get some gate space in a newly constructed Terminal 1, the part that would occupy the already demolished WorldPort (?) Reason being there are a lot of planes parked at the former Terminal 3 area now, more than the 4 net gates can accommodate once Terminal 2 is demolished and Terminal 4 expanded. And perhaps just simply rebrand that new adjacent part (of Terminal 1) as Terminal 4.

Why would they need more gate space there which is a long way to go from their check in? If they need more space, they can just kick all the other carriers out.
 
Ezra
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:07 pm

Are there any renderings for the 16-gate expansion of T4A?
 
TYWoolman
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:30 pm

tphuang wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I wonder if Delta will get some gate space in a newly constructed Terminal 1, the part that would occupy the already demolished WorldPort (?) Reason being there are a lot of planes parked at the former Terminal 3 area now, more than the 4 net gates can accommodate once Terminal 2 is demolished and Terminal 4 expanded. And perhaps just simply rebrand that new adjacent part (of Terminal 1) as Terminal 4.

Why would they need more gate space there which is a long way to go from their check in? If they need more space, they can just kick all the other carriers out.



True, thanks for reminder! But come to think of it, existing T4A has not many gates to accommodate entirely all the parked planes I see from time to time at the Terminal 3 footprint.
 
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Web500sjc
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:39 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
tphuang wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I wonder if Delta will get some gate space in a newly constructed Terminal 1, the part that would occupy the already demolished WorldPort (?) Reason being there are a lot of planes parked at the former Terminal 3 area now, more than the 4 net gates can accommodate once Terminal 2 is demolished and Terminal 4 expanded. And perhaps just simply rebrand that new adjacent part (of Terminal 1) as Terminal 4.

Why would they need more gate space there which is a long way to go from their check in? If they need more space, they can just kick all the other carriers out.



True, thanks for reminder! But come to think of it, existing T4A has not many gates to accommodate entirely all the parked planes I see from time to time at the Terminal 3 footprint.



Planes parked on the Old T3 footprint are just sitting between turns. They get towed on and off of gates at t4 or t2. Once the new T1+4 is complete, they will be parked either between the terminal and ring taxiway or they will be towed down by the old solar de-ice facility (which is being rebuilt in to an open ramp).
Boiler Up!
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:41 pm

Part of the redo is a brand new Hardstand facility at The old TWA hangar

That is where planes will be stored between turns

The Central Terminal Area is too valuable to have planes sitting around

That was just an anomaly until the T3 site was used
 
FSDan
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:44 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
How many gates did Delta have in T4B before the 2013 expansion?


Not many. Maybe just one or two (and those might have been common use) that NW had been using? The 2013 expansion added 9 widebody gates to T4B, with a further 11 RJ gates (several of which can be swing gates for mainline narrowbodies) added at the end over the following years, which allowed the old T2 RJ complex to be torn down and turned into 3 (?) more mainline gates. When DL moved into T4B after the expansion, a bunch of international airlines moved out to other terminals, allowing DL to keep their total gate count fairly static.
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blacksoviet
Posts: 1752
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:50 pm

Will there be a mobile lounge gate at T4A? Do they still use mobile lounges at T4B?
 
cokepopper
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 9:44 pm

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:17 pm

A shame they didn’t go with the plan to build out a T4C over what was Terminal 3. (One of the proposals) connecting Korean and Air France with the rest of sky team and JV partners. The final plan looks like a expanded 1 that is so close to Terminal 4 creating a single alleyway between the two. Maybe they will connect 1/4? Also it looks like More delays In The future if Delta has to park their aircraft on the other side of the airport and tow them over. With the terminal 3 hard stand area the delays seem to ease up. I don’t see how the new plan will keep the delays from occurring again.
 
panamair
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:53 pm

cokepopper wrote:
A shame they didn’t go with the plan to build out a T4C over what was Terminal 3. (One of the proposals) connecting Korean and Air France with the rest of sky team and JV partners. The final plan looks like a expanded 1 that is so close to Terminal 4 creating a single alleyway between the two. Maybe they will connect 1/4?


T1 and T4 will be connected. If you look closely at the proposed set-up, there will still be dual-lane taxiways between the new T1 and T4 except the area between the first few gates of each terminal (so gates B20, B22, and maybe B24 on the T4B side may be stuck with a single alleyway but then it starts to expand again with dual lane taxiways).
 
Nola
Posts: 380
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:55 pm

HunterATL wrote:
tlecam wrote:
United’s operation at EWR is impressive. I also think that the actual piers of terminal C are pretty nice and once the clubs are all renovated, those will be nice too.

I also love JFK T4. It’s not perfect, especially the walk to the commuter jets. But it’s bright, airy, and pretty clean. I love the outdoor deck for the Skyclub.

Terminal 2 is like going to see a broadway show at a high school gymnasium. Can’t wait for that thing to go. I am curious about how DL will manage their flights while that’s being torn down.

The future T1 - T4 connector will be nice for DL’s JV passengers.


The Terminal 4 expansion and the construction of the southern portion of the new Terminal 1 on top of the old Terminal 3 location will begin in 2020. Once those are complete, Terminals 1 and 2 will be torn down, and the northern portion of the new Terminal 1 will begin. All of Delta's operations will be consolidated in the expanded Terminal 4 before Terminal 2 is demolished.


How much parking space will DL lose with the new building taking part of the Worldport footprint? Will DL receive additional space to park planes somewhere else? The space between T4A and T4B seems to be used by T4 international carriers already.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:27 pm

I don’t understand why they can’t just leave Terminal 1 alone and build a new small terminal on the T2/T3 site.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:29 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Part of the redo is a brand new Hardstand facility at The old TWA hangar

That is where planes will be stored between turns

The Central Terminal Area is too valuable to have planes sitting around

That was just an anomaly until the T3 site was used

Where is the TWA hangar?
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:15 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
I don’t understand why they can’t just leave Terminal 1 alone and build a new small terminal on the T2/T3 site.


When taking into account the space of T1, T2 and T3, simply building a new terminal on the T2/T3 site would be an ineffective use of real estate. PANYNJ is trying to maximize the limited footprint JFK has.
 
questions
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Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:17 pm

Nola wrote:
HunterATL wrote:
tlecam wrote:
United’s operation at EWR is impressive. I also think that the actual piers of terminal C are pretty nice and once the clubs are all renovated, those will be nice too.

I also love JFK T4. It’s not perfect, especially the walk to the commuter jets. But it’s bright, airy, and pretty clean. I love the outdoor deck for the Skyclub.

Terminal 2 is like going to see a broadway show at a high school gymnasium. Can’t wait for that thing to go. I am curious about how DL will manage their flights while that’s being torn down.

The future T1 - T4 connector will be nice for DL’s JV passengers.


The Terminal 4 expansion and the construction of the southern portion of the new Terminal 1 on top of the old Terminal 3 location will begin in 2020. Once those are complete, Terminals 1 and 2 will be torn down, and the northern portion of the new Terminal 1 will begin. All of Delta's operations will be consolidated in the expanded Terminal 4 before Terminal 2 is demolished.


How much parking space will DL lose with the new building taking part of the Worldport footprint? Will DL receive additional space to park planes somewhere else? The space between T4A and T4B seems to be used by T4 international carriers already.


And we don’t know yet what the space between T4A and T4B will actually look like once the T4A expansion is complete. The design has not been released.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:53 pm

Kinda stupid DL will only gain 5 gates through this whole project, makes you wonder if it’s really worth it...
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:00 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Kinda stupid DL will only gain 5 gates through this whole project, makes you wonder if it’s really worth it...


I guess you never had the pleasure of transiting DL's old T2/T3 facilities... It's worth it.
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Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:02 pm

FSDan wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Kinda stupid DL will only gain 5 gates through this whole project, makes you wonder if it’s really worth it...


I guess you never had the pleasure of transiting DL's old T2/T3 facilities... It's worth it.


Lol I have not... But I am talking more from an economical stand point.
 
onwFan
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:08 pm

I really wish they finally bring all of SkyTeam under one roof in T4 and Star and other carriers in T1. Whats the point of DL having such a big operation and making people suffer by connecting between terminals?
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:13 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Kinda stupid DL will only gain 5 gates through this whole project, makes you wonder if it’s really worth it...


I guess you never had the pleasure of transiting DL's old T2/T3 facilities... It's worth it.


Lol I have not... But I am talking more from an economical stand point.


DL needed to move into new facilities. There's no way they'd have gained serious traction with NYC business travelers if they were still operating out of a dingy old terminal with a leaky roof and birds living in it. By being in T4, DL has also gained better connectivity with key partners like KL and VS. I'd bet that the bump to DL's brand image, and resulting incremental passenger numbers and revenue over the years will have been worth it when all is said and done.
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FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:18 pm

onwFan wrote:
I really wish they finally bring all of SkyTeam under one roof in T4 and Star and other carriers in T1. Whats the point of DL having such a big operation and making people suffer by connecting between terminals?


Renderings show there's going to be a connection between T1 and T4, so any passengers connecting from DL domestic to AF or KE (or AZ, assuming they still exist when this project is complete...) will be able to avoid the AirTrain. However, probably the vast majority of AF and KE traffic at JFK is originating in NYC if I had to guess. DL passengers originating outside NYC who need to connect to get to CDG or ICN can do so via DTW, BOS, etc., with a lower likelihood of getting delayed to boot!
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atlflyer
Posts: 730
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:13 am

Re: JFK T4A Expansion

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:38 pm

$3.8 Billion is quite tan impressive amount of money for 500,000ft2 and renovation of existing terminal. They must be planning on gutting the place except for the newer part of Concourse B.

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