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glideslope900
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Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:20 am

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rt.com ... crash/amp/

A Bek Air Fokker 100 crashed in Kazakstan. No further information at this time.
 
crazyfoo88
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:22 am

From twitter it appears to be BEK2100. Possible survivors as well. Multiple buildings impacted by crash.
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usflyer msp
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:24 am

Damn. I flew Z9 2100 in August. That is scary.
 
glideslope900
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:25 am

Current weather showing mist and visibility of 1000m. Temperature -11C.
 
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:31 am

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-new ... 0-21168658
Apparently seven have died
RIP

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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:54 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Damn. I flew Z9 2100 in August. That is scary.


Why?
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:02 am

Just a reminder for everyone if you are posting links, pictures, graphs etc your own comments must be included as per forum rules
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reltney
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:04 am

airportugal310 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Damn. I flew Z9 2100 in August. That is scary.


Why?



I have to ask also.........why is that scary?
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FlyingElvii
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:04 am

Simply speculating based on the info I have seen so far:
Botched a go around?
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:06 am

Glad to hear there are survivors. Crossing fingers that loss of life stays in small numbers.
 
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N62NA
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:12 am

reltney wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Damn. I flew Z9 2100 in August. That is scary.


Why?



I have to ask also.........why is that scary?


Think folks. It's the same exact flight that he flew on a few months ago. And that flight just ended in a crash..
Last edited by N62NA on Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
bmibaby737
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:12 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
Simply speculating based on the info I have seen so far:
Botched a go around?


Incident was on departure, not landing:

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... air/rm9v87
Last edited by bmibaby737 on Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:13 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
Simply speculating based on the info I have seen so far:
Botched a go around?


On departure?
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:17 am

bmibaby737 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Simply speculating based on the info I have seen so far:
Botched a go around?


Incident was on departure, not landing:

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... air/rm9v87

I stand corrected. Departure stall?
 
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stasisLAX
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:27 am

BBC NEWS is reporting 100 people onboard the Fokker 100, 95 passengers and 5 crew. Part of the aircraft appears to have come down in a residential area. Registration UP-F1007. Very sad news.
Last edited by stasisLAX on Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lemieux
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:30 am

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/26/asia/kaz ... index.html

CNN now reporting nine dead, nine injured
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VS4ever
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:30 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-50922219

BBC story, 9 believed dead at this point. RIP to those who perished. Apparently heavy fog too.
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edu2703
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:31 am

Field elevation at Almaty listed at 2234 ft. This means the aircraft barely or didn't get off the ground before the accident, if FR24 data is accurate.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 am

Guys, nothing worse than reading people bickering with each other over nothing.

Most humorous comment I saw in the British papers: Kazak officials have grounded all F100s pending an investigation. Right, because there's some latent problem with F100s we're just learning about 30 years later... That says everything one needs to know about the state of aviation in that country.

Oh, wait. There's another: Government officials indicate that "those responsible for the crash will face the most severe punishment available under the law". So it has to be a criminal act?

They're just counting the bodies as they pull them out, and they're up to over 14. Odd there doesn't seem to have been a fire, from the photos. Airplane was said by some not to have climbed. Rejected takeoff? No indication with maps or anything whether this could be a runway overrun following rejected takeoff. Otherwise, if the aircraft "came down" in a residential neighborhood, as some knowledgeless media are reporting, few if anyone will have survived this. If it's a rejected takeoff and runway overrun where the plane broke apart with no fire, then maybe survivable.
 
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:02 am

FR24 reports that the aircraft is UP-F1007.
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a320fan
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:08 am

Sounds similar to the Fokker that crashed in Canada from icing years ago. Failed to gain altitude until eventual stall and crash. Of course 100% initial speculation and not based on any solid information so I could well be totally off. Hopefully the fatalities stay at these low numbers however I fear these initial reports are just on what they’ve found so far and it will rise as they continue the search through the wreckage.
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:10 am

The F100 doesn't need flaps for takeoff, correct? So it wouldn't be a configuration issue unless they didn't set the trim correctly.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:23 am

Based on the photos I have seen, I think icing may be something to consider. So so sad for the loss of life.
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timpdx
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:24 am

N62NA wrote:
reltney wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:

Why?



I have to ask also.........why is that scary?


Think folks. It's the same exact flight that he flew on a few months ago. And that flight just ended in a crash..


I totally understand the poster being a bit spooked.

And I nearly asked to be booked on the the Air Bagan F100 that crash landed on a road in Dec. 2012. You could not book direct with any Myanmar airline at that time, and I initially wanted to fly on Xmas day and could very well have been on that plane. I cut down on my ambitions to see 5 cities in 11 days, fortunately and cut that segment. But it’s certainly spooky to have almost flown an obscure airline that crashes. Fortunately only 1 person on the ground died in that particular incident, but there were some injuries on the plane. Visit to a Burmese hospital? Um, hard pass.

Hoping for the best in this incident.
Last edited by timpdx on Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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IAmGaroott
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:25 am

Very interesting that it didn't catch fire.
 
axio
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:38 am

glideslope900 wrote:
Current weather showing mist and visibility of 1000m. Temperature -11C.

First flight of the morning - ice perhaps?
Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:44 am

wjcandee wrote:
Guys, nothing worse than reading people bickering with each other over nothing.

Most humorous comment I saw in the British papers: Kazak officials have grounded all F100s pending an investigation. Right, because there's some latent problem with F100s we're just learning about 30 years later... That says everything one needs to know about the state of aviation in that country.

Oh, wait. There's another: Government officials indicate that "those responsible for the crash will face the most severe punishment available under the law". So it has to be a criminal act?

They're just counting the bodies as they pull them out, and they're up to over 14. Odd there doesn't seem to have been a fire, from the photos. Airplane was said by some not to have climbed. Rejected takeoff? No indication with maps or anything whether this could be a runway overrun following rejected takeoff. Otherwise, if the aircraft "came down" in a residential neighborhood, as some knowledgeless media are reporting, few if anyone will have survived this. If it's a rejected takeoff and runway overrun where the plane broke apart with no fire, then maybe survivable.


Well, since we're in the early speculation phase I'm guessing a loss of power from both engines judging from how level with the ground it must have been on impact for such a large portion of the aircraft to be in fact and no evidence of a fire. It kind of looks like that Russian aircraft that lost both engines from birdstrikes and crash/landed in a cornfield, with a worse outcome. I wonder if the outcome might have been better if there wasn't a building for it to hit?
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wjcandee
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:51 am

Does anybody know if this is a runway overrun?

Any sense of why there wouldn't have been a fire with the wreckage in that condition? So cold outside that fuel didn't atomize? (Jet A is essentially kerosense/diesel, so it doesn't ignite as easily as, say, gasoline would, but even if it's very cold outside that sure looks like a lot of force acting on the fuselage in a very short period of time.)
 
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:54 am

N62NA wrote:
reltney wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:

Why?



I have to ask also.........why is that scary?


Think folks. It's the same exact flight that he flew on a few months ago. And that flight just ended in a crash..

Thats right, think. A crash needs a chain of several factors and events to happen, having flown on a plane that crashes some time later has nothing in relation to those events or factors.
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canyonblue17
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:55 am

Kind of uncanny how much the newer Bek Air paint scheme looks a lot like the old Valujet colors. RIP -
Prayers to everyone involved.
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AngelsDecay
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:03 am

On the precise same day, 28 years later with some similarities...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandin ... Flight_751
May they rest in peace... Sad in a Christmas Season.
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airkas1
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:38 am

Per FR24

METAR at the time of the accident:
UAAA 270100Z 14001MPS 1000 R05L/P2000N R05R/P2000D BR FU NSC M12/M13 Q1014 R88/91//50 NOSIG

Data:
Image

"Note that altitude values broadcast in ADS-B data are uncorrected pressure altitudes above mean sea level, not altitude above ground level. Field elevation at Almaty listed at 2234 ft."
 
spacecadet
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:41 am

The METAR is consistent with frost developing on the wings. I'm interested to see if the pilots dealt with this before takeoff.
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Arion640
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:58 am

N62NA wrote:
reltney wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:

Why?



I have to ask also.........why is that scary?


Think folks. It's the same exact flight that he flew on a few months ago. And that flight just ended in a crash..


I would find that a bit scary too.
 
ikarlson
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:11 am

Right now it looks very similar to what happened 27 years ago in Macedonia with flight Palair Macedonian Airlines Flight 301
 
wjcandee
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:25 am

AngelsDecay wrote:
On the precise same day, 28 years later with some similarities...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandin ... Flight_751
May they rest in peace... Sad in a Christmas Season.


Except that nobody died in that landing of an MD80 in a field (that nevertheless destroyed the aircraft). And the icing in that case broke off and was ingested in the engines, causing surges and then failures, turning the accident aircraft into a glider, which the pilots then managed to "land" in a field. (I know you did say "some" similarities, which I think probably meant "icing".)

Interesting to the current debate about the MAX, SAS hadn't trained its pilots about the ATR (Automatic Thrust Restoration) system on the MD80s, so when the engine was cut back due to surging, the system automatically restored it to power to prevent asymmetric thrust. No pilots at SAS knew about this system or were trained about it, and there was no dissemination within SAS of information about the system, even though it was described in McD's manuals. Huh.
 
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airkas1
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:30 am

Some possibly interesting quotes in this Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-kaza ... SKBN1YV07H

A survivor told news website Tengrinews she heard a “terrifying sound” before the plane started losing altitude. “The plane was flying at a tilt. Everything was like in a movie: screaming, shouting, people crying,” she said.

Another survivor, businessman Aslan Nazaraliyev, told the Vremya newspaper that the plane started shaking while gaining altitude about two minutes after takeoff. “At some point we started falling, not vertically, but at an angle. It seemed like control over the plane had been lost,” he said.
 
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sergegva
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:23 am

UP-F1007 was one of the youngest F100 still flying (less than 24 years since first flight). It first flew with Mandarin Airlines (ex-Formosa Airlines, a sister company of China Airlines) during 13 years.
 
Silverstreak
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:28 am

I had an somewhat similar experience that was memorable about a Texas International FA that was killed in crash involving one of their Convair 660s in Arkansas. I think it was in the 70’s. I had flown on her flight as a passenger from LCH - DAL. She was beautiful and very professional. I had such a memorable impression of her. I will always remember that young woman and her pretty smile.
 
Alexdk
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:05 am

https://www.rbc.ru/society/27/12/2019/5 ... =from_main

As of recent info:
1. 12 dead
2. 60 injured
3. 98 occupants in total
4. The airplane struck the runway twice and then collided into a small building outside of the airport as it failed to gain altitude
5. Pilot error as well as technical failures are considered
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:24 am

a320fan wrote:
[color=#BF0040]Sounds similar to the Fokker that crashed in Canada from icing years ago[/color]. Failed to gain altitude until eventual stall and crash. Of course 100% initial speculation and not based on any solid information so I could well be totally off. Hopefully the fatalities stay at these low numbers however I fear these initial reports are just on what they’ve found so far and it will rise as they continue the search through the wreckage.


Sound similar to the [insert aircraft name] that crashed in [insert country] from icing years ago.

:wave:
 
juliuswong
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:34 am

RIP. Godspeed, hope more survivors will be found soon. 2019 turns out to be a unpleasant year for aviation.

Meanwhile Bek Air license has been suspended. https://www.flightglobal.com/news/bek-a ... 45.article

First few photos have emerged from crash side. It is a miracle so many survived. The captain passed away though.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/bek-a ... 45.article

https://aviation-safety.net/photo/10412 ... 0-UP-F1007

http://avherald.com/h?article=4d127dc6
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bennett123
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:24 am

Reading the previous posts, are T tails more prone to icing?.
 
SQ325
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:21 pm

T Tails are more critical during stalls.
because the Airflow created by the stalling wings affects the elevator more on T Tail aircraft than on regular Tails.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:40 pm

RIP to the dead. Never a good thing to have fatalities, however small number that is.

As for the crash, it does sound like improper de-icing to me given the weather condition. Fokkers technically doesn't need flaps to takeoff, but I'm not sure whether improper flap settings can be totally rule out, either.

juliuswong wrote:
First few photos have emerged from crash side. It is a miracle so many survived. The captain passed away though.


Indeed. Perhaps the rear part of fuseluge breaking off early, without the plane turning into a fireball, helps increase the number of survivors.
 
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OA940
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:51 pm

My condolences to all those who died. Let's hope that number doesn't go up
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FlyHossD
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:04 pm

First, my condolences to the family and friends of those who perished. May the dead rest in peace.

Arion640 wrote:
N62NA wrote:
reltney wrote:

I have to ask also.........why is that scary?


Think folks. It's the same exact flight that he flew on a few months ago. And that flight just ended in a crash..


I would find that a bit scary too.


Why is that a scary thing? How many times have you passed through an intersection where a serious - or even fatal - auto accident has occurred? Is that scary, too?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
Blankbarcode
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:23 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
First, my condolences to the family and friends of those who perished. May the dead rest in peace.

Arion640 wrote:
N62NA wrote:

Think folks. It's the same exact flight that he flew on a few months ago. And that flight just ended in a crash..


I would find that a bit scary too.


Why is that a scary thing? How many times have you passed through an intersection where a serious - or even fatal - auto accident has occurred? Is that scary, too?


Scary is subjective, they're not telling you to think it's scary too. Considering how often coincidences happen and this one is particularly grim, I'd be a little spooked too.

It seems pretty obvious why someone would feel that way, I don't know why folks feel the need to question that. Save that energy for things that actually require debating.
 
MR27122
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:52 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
N62NA wrote:
reltney wrote:


I have to ask also.........why is that scary?


Think folks. It's the same exact flight that he flew on a few months ago. And that flight just ended in a crash..

Thats right, think. A crash needs a chain of several factors and events to happen, having flown on a plane that crashes some time later has nothing in relation to those events or factors.


The # of cycles for a hull & hours on the propulsion system(s) is never cited in an NTSB final-report....also the experience of the crew (# of hours) is never made reference to post-accident.....wait, err, ahh....Wait.....perhaps "absolutes" ought never be used.

Think! Bek Air/Kazakhstan/F-100 ain't Southwest/Dallas-Houston/737
 
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Nomadd
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Re: Fokker 100 Crashes in Kazakstan

Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:17 pm

Had a dream last night I took off in a small airliner from some strange airport, and went inverted right after takeoff.

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