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Antaras
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Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:19 pm

Everyone agreed that 2019 is the worst year in the history of Boeing, with the crashes of the high-expectation 737MAX, the safety-culture scandal (at CHS) and the delay of projects, including the development of 777X.
In your opinion, do you think that Boeing will come back and recover its reputation after the crashes, and fly further with a handful number of beautiful projects?

Boeing's bucket list in 2020:
- Bring the 777X-9 and 737MAX10 to the sky.
- Announce the NMA (some clean sheet designs or just modernized-767 models as rumours?) to compete with the hot-selling A321XLRs.
- Most importantly, recertify the MAXs and convince everyone that the MAXs will be safe and there will be no more crashes and troubles.
- Acquire Embraer successfully.

Do you think Boeing will make it?

Just leaving a picture of the MAX10 here for no reasons :D
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STT757
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:28 pm

Get the Max flying again, nothing else matters. Once that happens the only thing that can help Boeing is time.




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JayinKitsap
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:37 pm

Not sure, am amazed at how A.net cheers every problem at Boeing. Another A vs B battle (and of course A is far better - B is BAD).

Boeing will take a number of months more to get the MAX RTS, the 777X will have its first flight soon. New programs are shelved until further notice, will come back once there is regular production on all current models again with the MAX backlog cleared back.
 
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bgm
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:25 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
Boeing will take a number of months more to get the MAX RTS


If at all...

'just a few more months' is all we've been getting from Boeing, and it seems they are nowhere even remotely ready to return this beast to service.

I'd be delighted to be proved wrong, but I suspect the MAX will not return to service. At some point, Boeing will decide it is better to scrap the program and explore other options, rather than these endless delays that they now have absolutely no control over.

I doubt Boeing will make a 'great come back' in 2020. I think it will be more stemming losses and damage control. Perhaps more heads will roll?
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ikolkyo
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:26 pm

2021 is my guess for their “comeback”
 
Jetty
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:31 pm

A return of a 50 year old design will never make a great year, even if it was grounded before.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:33 pm

Will 2020 be the year that we don’t get a new MAX thread everyday?

Probably not.....but one could hope.
 
B757Forever
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:53 pm

bgm wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
Boeing will take a number of months more to get the MAX RTS


If at all...

'just a few more months' is all we've been getting from Boeing, and it seems they are nowhere even remotely ready to return this beast to service.

I'd be delighted to be proved wrong, but I suspect the MAX will not return to service. At some point, Boeing will decide it is better to scrap the program and explore other options, rather than these endless delays that they now have absolutely no control over.

I doubt Boeing will make a 'great come back' in 2020. I think it will be more stemming losses and damage control. Perhaps more heads will roll?


The Max will fly again. The timeline for the return is not Boeing's to decide, that is for the FAA to decide. Understand, the FAA got mud on their faces due to this debacle and they, as the regulators who approved the aircraft, are not going to let that happen again. The Max will be allowed to fly once the most thorough vetting of any aircraft ever is completed. Until then, the FAA will share their pain with Boeing until they are ready for it to fly.
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:01 pm

Antaras wrote:
Everyone agreed that 2019 is the worst year in the history of Boeing, with the crashes of the high-expectation 737MAX, the safety-culture scandal (at CHS) and the delay of projects, including the development of 777X.
In your opinion, do you think that Boeing will come back and recover its reputation after the crashes, and fly further with a handful number of beautiful projects?

Boeing's bucket list in 2020:
- Bring the 777X-9 and 737MAX10 to the sky.
- Announce the NMA (some clean sheet designs or just modernized-767 models as rumours?) to compete with the hot-selling A321XLRs.
- Most importantly, recertify the MAXs and convince everyone that the MAXs will be safe and there will be no more crashes and troubles.
- Acquire Embraer successfully.

Do you think Boeing will make it?

Just leaving a picture of the MAX10 here for no reasons :D


A nice to do list and I believe that list will happen, apart from announcing a new frame.

But will that be a great come back, or just a desperate scramble.
 
Avgeek21
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:02 pm

I think 2020 is just damage limitation and building renewed trust and confidence with it’s customers and the general flying public. The future, and past reputation, has been hit with a sledge hammer at Boeing for the next few years. The average Joe will forget 99% of the current state quickly. But that 1% is damn hard to get rid of. Forget competing with Airbus for the next few years. I hope Boeing doesn’t fall into the same trap where shareholder value kept being put before safety. That is something the aviation community will quickly pick up on and not forget. Ever. And yes I am a Boeing fan and work on/with the MAX too. For Boeing the mantra should be; “only time will tell and show you we’ve changed.”
 
tomcat
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:09 pm

Antaras wrote:

- Most importantly, recertify the MAXs and convince everyone that the MAXs will be safe and there will be no more crashes and troubles.



One way to measure this achievement could be with the number of firm orders that Boeing will receive for the MAX in the coming months and its market share vs the competition over the same period of time.


Antaras wrote:

- Acquire Embraer successfully.



Can Boeing still walk away from that deal? I'm not convinced that it's the best thing for Boeing to splash several billion of dollar to acquire Embraer at this time. If Boeing would ever want or need to access to the Embraer engineering resources, they might as well seek to contract them when needed.
 
AKL321NX
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:16 pm

Trying to turn around 10 years of corporate neglect won't happen in a year. Hopefully they can get back to as they were before they fumbled every development except the 787 (which is a success story in spite of their own best efforts)
 
Scotron12
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:18 pm

They made great planes. Still do. Just had the wrong people in charge.

Maybe the MAX was an iteration too far...and they went for the "fast" buck. Shame really coz it has stained the name of a truely great company. The entire leadership should be shown the exit....hopefully soon.
 
RawSushi
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:20 pm

Within a year? No way. The company needs a major cultural reboot, and they've got a massive supply chain that will only get more unhappy and degrade in capacity the longer this drags on. This is in addition to already strained relationships from all the squeezing Boeing has been doing in recent years. Customer confidence is being stretched and we haven't even begun to talk about compensation. Reputation among the flying public is in tatters. Has any company in world history ever recovered from problems of this magnitude within a year? I think not!

This is a company that needs to regroup, focus on building good products and safe planes rather than cutting corners for profit. The rot is deep. This doesn't just get fixed overnight.
 
KFLLCFII
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:25 pm

I would not doubt that Boeing could be to 2020 what Lehman Brothers was to 2008.
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Rossiya747
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:29 pm

Here are a few of my thoughts:
-Assuming the 737 MAX is recertified, Boeing will completely destroy Airbus in amount of deliveries because all of the airlines will need them ASAP
-Launch of NMA
-First flight of 777X and maybe first deliveries
-Launch of NSA
223 319 320 321 332 333 346 388 734 737 738 739 38M 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 77W 788 789 208 CRJ2 E145 E190 UA DL AA WN AC CM 4O AV 2K FI DY D8 SK LH EI FR U2 IB OS LX BA VS BT PS MS SA SW QR EY HY AI 9W TG SQ MH AK D7 QZ BR NH CA QF MI LV/IB VY AL
 
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:37 pm

KFLLCFII wrote:
I would not doubt that Boeing could be to 2020 what Lehman Brothers was to 2008.


If we're speculating on what is probable, I would doubt that very much.
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:38 pm

I think the ship has sailed for the NMA. Right now, they need to get the Max back in service and work out the kinks on the 777X. Only after this is smooth can Boeing consider developing a new product.

KFLLCFII wrote:
I would not doubt that Boeing could be to 2020 what Lehman Brothers was to 2008.
Hardly. Boeing still has other areas to work with. Despite the Max and 777X draining the accounts, the military side is healthy, as are the support and sustainment services. If worst comes to shove, it can split itself up into two entities so that the other parts of the company are not affected.
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:41 pm

Comeback? Yes, possibly. "Great" comeback? Questionable. Don't get me wrong, I like Boeing & I think that they will make a surprisingly solid comeback, but they'll have to give away the store in 2020 to accomplish this. It will be a buyer's market for Boeing jets in the New Year.
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American 767
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:42 pm

How about a few more orders for 748Fs? That would be nice, especially for the 747 production line. Keep the Queen going on an on.
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RawSushi
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:00 pm

Rossiya747 wrote:
-Assuming the 737 MAX is recertified, Boeing will completely destroy Airbus in amount of deliveries because all of the airlines will need them ASAP


This is completely pointless in the grand scheme of things. Simple math will prove that Boeing has very little chance of ever catching up on their existing delivery commitments. They've got to make up for more half a year of reduced production in 2019, maybe 6 months of zero production in 2020 if not more, and likely a year or more of slower production upon restart of the production lines. This is how much of a hole they have to make up for in order to catch up with their existing delivery commitments. My money is on that never happening. Every MAX customer from here on gets their plane late unless they somehow get an earlier slot at the expense of someone else. How's that for "destroying Airbus" in delivering planes?
 
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:01 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
Not sure, am amazed at how A.net cheers every problem at Boeing. Another A vs B battle (and of course A is far better - B is BAD).

Boeing will take a number of months more to get the MAX RTS, the 777X will have its first flight soon. New programs are shelved until further notice, will come back once there is regular production on all current models again with the MAX backlog cleared back.


Boy this ain’t a Cold War between B or A, it’s about getting the people that make airlines possible between destinations without having to fear a (un)certain death. We want Boeing to succeed as much as Airbus as a healthy competition is essential for any business.
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:01 pm

The best comeback in 2020 would just be to run a great engineering and aircraft production operation. Great companies are build on well run foundations and Boeing needs work on the foundation more than anything else.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:11 pm

I’m far from a Boeing detractor. I love flying their planes and still view them as a great company. However what is not up for debate is that they choose profits over safety. The consciously did it and it killed 350 people. I also found the companies “condolences” trite, hollow, and pathetic.

What it will take is for them to show the world they made safety their priority again and that will takes years to do. It will take time for the flying public to trust the max again as well.

2020? Probably not. By 2025 maybe.
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:14 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
Not sure, am amazed at how A.net cheers every problem at Boeing. Another A vs B battle (and of course A is far better - B is BAD).

Boeing will take a number of months more to get the MAX RTS, the 777X will have its first flight soon. New programs are shelved until further notice, will come back once there is regular production on all current models again with the MAX backlog cleared back.


I tend to be partial to Airbus, but I don't think that many airline enthusiasts are cheering for Boeing to go under. The only thing worse than the duopoly Airbus/Boeing that we have now would be either Airbus or Boeing in monopoly position without the other. Airbus has had the Concorde and A380 as financial disasters, and the pitot tubes on AF447 where the design and implementation were partly to blame for the crash.

Go Boeing, go!
 
TC957
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:15 pm

My view is that Boeing should cut their losses in 2020 and scrap the MAX programme and, sadly, the frames built. Public confidence in the aircraft is so low it'll take more than a few clever marketing tricks for it to become an aircraft accepted by the flying public. Then get on with the new NMA.
And before anyone says your average airline passenger doesn't care what plane they fly on, yes they do ! Here in the UK, every move related to the MAX is covered by the news channels with a reminder of the two crashes they've had. I work in the travel industry and like my colleagues, our clients are worried we may be booking them on a MAX in future.
 
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:28 pm

TC957 wrote:
My view is that Boeing should cut their losses in 2020 and scrap the MAX programme and, sadly, the frames built. Public confidence in the aircraft is so low it'll take more than a few clever marketing tricks for it to become an aircraft accepted by the flying public. Then get on with the new NMA.
And before anyone says your average airline passenger doesn't care what plane they fly on, yes they do ! Here in the UK, every move related to the MAX is covered by the news channels with a reminder of the two crashes they've had. I work in the travel industry and like my colleagues, our clients are worried we may be booking them on a MAX in future.


Strongly agree, big fan of BBC World News here in Canada and Talking Business has a story on the MAX almost daily ( it seems ) as do other BBC programmes, seems the saga really has traction in the UK.

Same is true in Canada, to a degree, as many of the ET 302 victims were Canadian.
 
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:29 pm

TC957 wrote:
My view is that Boeing should cut their losses in 2020 and scrap the MAX programme and, sadly, the frames built. Public confidence in the aircraft is so low it'll take more than a few clever marketing tricks for it to become an aircraft accepted by the flying public. Then get on with the new NMA.
And before anyone says your average airline passenger doesn't care what plane they fly on, yes they do ! Here in the UK, every move related to the MAX is covered by the news channels with a reminder of the two crashes they've had. I work in the travel industry and like my colleagues, our clients are worried we may be booking them on a MAX in future.


You’re seriously delusional...
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:42 pm

The real question is, does Boeing have a plan for 2020? With the changing of the guard up top, is there a plan in place or is Boeing still trying to find its way? I'm still not seeing anything that indicates that Boeing publicly has a plan going forward other than trying to recertify the MAX. Probably they do behind the scenes, but it would be most reassuring as an investor if Boeing would communicate what their long term plans are, going forward. What I'd personally like to see is:
- Fix the 777X issues and get it back on track.
- Keep pumping out 787s and make sure it remains a cash cow.
- Reengine the 767 for freighter purposes and push it out the door quickly. There's a nice window of opportunity here - reengine the plane, PIP the daylights out of it, and keep the production line going, maintaining a nice low risk, minimum change and profitable program. If Boeing can just perhaps sell a few pax models, then so much the better. Hopefully, a Boeing salesman is back speaking with United about this. They're the obvious candidates for any pax models.
- The MAX... Whether its recertified soon, or no, Boeing needs a new narrowbody family. Do what you can with the MAX, Boeing, sell what you can, fix what you can, but then pivot quickly to an all new design. The A320-family isn't getting any younger, either. Better to steal a march on Airbus before they erode your market share even further.
- Make a serious commitment to quality control, and that includes treating your workers better so they'll want to be more quality conscious.
- Stop off-shoring engineering work. Keep as much of it in-house as possible. In other words, don't import cheap foreign programmers to write programs like MCAS in an attempt to cut costs.
- Move the HQ back to Washington State. Moving the board to Chicago has effectively created a firewall between higher management and the troops on the ground, so to speak. That may not be possible given the handouts Chicago gave to Boeing to get them to move there, but at least investigate it.

Anyway, that's what I'd suggest. Happy New Year to all.

Bob
 
IPFreely
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:44 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
Not sure, am amazed at how A.net cheers every problem at Boeing. Another A vs B battle (and of course A is far better - B is BAD).


The whole thread is delusional. A lot of posters / fanboys don't seem to know there's a difference between corporations and sports teams. "Comeback"??? I think they would compare a business to the Kansas City Chiefs going from 2 -12 to 11-5 in one season. Hopefully the mods will shut this mess down soon.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:55 pm

IPFreely wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
Not sure, am amazed at how A.net cheers every problem at Boeing. Another A vs B battle (and of course A is far better - B is BAD).


The whole thread is delusional. A lot of posters / fanboys don't seem to know there's a difference between corporations and sports teams. "Comeback"??? I think they would compare a business to the Kansas City Chiefs going from 2 -12 to 11-5 in one season. Hopefully the mods will shut this mess down soon.


Delusional or possibly Fantasy Flight, I bid the 779 on the LHR - HNL city pair. The plane breaks even if 80% full, the points are seat miles above or below the 80%. But will your competition bidding LHR-DXB with the A380 going to cream you or let you advance.


It seems that most of the people involved in aviation as a career have abandoned a.net.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:09 pm

So... Once the MAX is certified, Yvette shells be a lot of reasonably immediate revenue to Boeing as the manufactured aircraft are delivered.

How will that play out on a practical level?

Edit to add: conversely, how will the fairly sudden increase in potential capacity effect the travel market and airline profitability?
Last edited by NameOmitted on Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Iluvtofly
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:10 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
JayinKitsap wrote:
Not sure, am amazed at how A.net cheers every problem at Boeing. Another A vs B battle (and of course A is far better - B is BAD).


The whole thread is delusional. A lot of posters / fanboys don't seem to know there's a difference between corporations and sports teams. "Comeback"??? I think they would compare a business to the Kansas City Chiefs going from 2 -12 to 11-5 in one season. Hopefully the mods will shut this mess down soon.


Delusional or possibly Fantasy Flight, I bid the 779 on the LHR - HNL city pair. The plane breaks even if 80% full, the points are seat miles above or below the 80%. But will your competition bidding LHR-DXB with the A380 going to cream you or let you advance.


It seems that most of the people involved in aviation as a career have abandoned a.net.


Sounds like a speech from the current US president LOL....
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Ronaldo747
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:19 pm

The best comeback thing for Boeing would be a complete change of management and leadership, hands over them to engineers again. returning back the HQ to Washington state again and kick all the bean counters of the Wall Street out of the company. The new leadership have to put in a new general orientation including safety and quality aspects. This is the most important thing to do.

But with Calhoun nothing will change. And this will end the Boeing civil aviation company in the long term, just like its counterpart of Lockheed.

tomcat wrote:
I'm not convinced that it's the best thing for Boeing to splash several billion of dollar to acquire Embraer at this time.


{checkmark} they should cancel it as this deal would not help them. The E2 series are inferior to the A220 series.
 
slinky09
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:26 pm

Is Boeing in control of its plan for 2020 - that's what I would ask? Currently there's a lot stacked up against it, the FAA and recertifying the Max, suppliers and particularly engine makers for the 777X, customers who may or may not want a NMA ... it's own mismanagement, it's workforce ... etc. If I were riding the tiger that is Boeing at the moment I'd be pretty careful to predict anything for 2020 and set my sights a little longer term where I can seek to manage things better.

I predict 2020 will be another terrible year, but see hope beyond that and hope Boeing pulls itself together and becomes a better manufacturer too.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:27 pm

TC957 wrote:
Here in the UK, every move related to the MAX is covered by the news channels with a reminder of the two crashes they've had


You must live in a different UK than I do, or watch niche, aviation orientated news channels.
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rlwynn
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:39 pm

What if the MAX does not get to fly?
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chepos
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:54 pm

Antaras wrote:
Everyone agreed that 2019 is the worst year in the history of Boeing, with the crashes of the high-expectation 737MAX, the safety-culture scandal (at CHS) and the delay of projects, including the development of 777X.
In your opinion, do you think that Boeing will come back and recover its reputation after the crashes, and fly further with a handful number of beautiful projects?

Boeing's bucket list in 2020:
- Bring the 777X-9 and 737MAX10 to the sky.
- Announce the NMA (some clean sheet designs or just modernized-767 models as rumours?) to compete with the hot-selling A321XLRs.
- Most importantly, recertify the MAXs and convince everyone that the MAXs will be safe and there will be no more crashes and troubles.
- Acquire Embraer successfully.

Do you think Boeing will make it?

Just leaving a picture of the MAX10 here for no reasons :D


Will Boeing make it? Of course they will, if Boeing goes under that would be a major blow to the aerospace industry world wide (not just the US). No administration in power wants a company as vital to the US economy as Boeing to fail under their watch, it would have a rippling effect on the economy.


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PacoMartin
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:24 pm

Boeing delivered 580 B737s in 2018 with 256 MAX and the rest Next Generation.
They have over 400 MAX in storage so they might deliver 600 in 2020 if they start the production line up by May.

It could possibly be a decent year. A lot spends on how long the production line is down and how bad the lawsuits are.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:36 pm

Boeing is not going to talk about future plans until the MAX is back in service, full stop.

And those who think the MAX program could be scrapped are simply delusional. Scrapping the MAX without a replacement would end Boeing as a viable business and would be an existential threat for the airlines who ordered it. It will return to service with substantially redesigned software, it will most likely accumulate a safety record as good as expected for a current-generation aircraft, it will have appropriate economics for its owners, and it will deliver 4000 copies even if Boeing announces its replacement the day after it returns to service.

In any event MAX RTS is hardly going to be the end of the crisis. It will be quite the challenge to deliver new-build MAX and demothball/deliver all of the stored MAX at the same time. Much of the company's brainpower will be devoted to figuring out how to solve that puzzle.

A successful 2020 for Boeing would look like this:

1) MAX recertified and returns to service in late 1Q or early 2Q
2) MAX restarts production smoothly around the same time
3) Boeing manages to deliver its new-buiild MAX and basically all of the stored MAX by the end of the year
4) 777X flies on schedule and has a reasonably smooth test flight program
5) Boeing secures some 787 and 777X orders

A year like that would allow a return to whatever passes for "normal" under the new management. If Boeing can pull it off, then they'll be in a position to think about new aircraft developments, whether NSA, NMA, or new-engine 787.
 
timh4000
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:14 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:37 pm

I do believe that Boeing will get its act together, but it will take more than just one year. Let's just hope they are going to get serious and make some necessary sacrifices? They need to get the max back in the air and get the 777x rolling through the test flights

If they haven't already lost market share to AB Getting the max going and having a new aircraft on the market. It's not likely they can totally have themselves back to where they want but it's a start and will keep Boeing at least somewhat competitive. My fear is, if they continue the path they on,
 
smartplane
Posts: 1471
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:04 pm

Will RTS to be as easy / smooth as some posters expect?

There will be a list of changes that MUST be incorporated on all new builds from Day 1, a major reason why production is stopping.

There will be a list of changes that MUST be incorporated from Day 1 on already delivered aircraft before they can return to service, and a further list of AD's which must be incorporated within firm, and quite ambitious timeframes.

It is the already built, but undelivered aircraft where Boeing have been getting themselves especially offside with the FAA and EASA. Boeing insisted these aircraft should be treated like already customer delivered aircraft, part of the arrogance that saw production continue.

As Boeing demonstrated they were withholding important information relevant to the investigations, the FAA become firmer in their resolve to treat these aircraft as new builds, so incorporating mandatory changes and all AD's, before they could be delivered to customers.

Now it appears the new Boeing top team has the chance to redeem themselves. Cap the number of aircraft in this category (stop production). Deliver ALL information, documents, emails, and make staff available for interviews who have retired / disappeared / claiming legal protection, and undelivered to customer new builds, may be treated as customer delivered in terms of rectification work.

No way the MAX 10 and X will get back on course, partly because the FAA has investigations which will further distract and delay, but also, because very patient MAX customers will be furious, if resources now are not 100% focussed on getting the MAX in service, delivered and AD's actioned, one or two of which might affect the NG.
Last edited by smartplane on Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:13 pm

A shame we can't have once nice thread. There are plenty of other threads where the anti-Boeong crowd can post their vitrol.
 
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ER757
Posts: 3786
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:17 pm

To those who say scrap the Max and/or move HQ back to Washington - three words for you: Not. Gonna. Happen.

What I wish they would do, but see above - is change the name of the 737 Max - just call it the 737-8, 737-9, etc. I agree with posters above stating the public is not going to easily forget that the Max is the plane that had fatal flaws. This isn't 1970 anymore - too many news channels, websites, blogs. and more. It's front and center in media and once it does come back into service it will be headline news. The name needs to go (wishful thinking on my part).
 
krisyyz
Posts: 1303
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:04 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:08 pm

I think 2020 will be a year of rebuilding for Boeing. Their corporate image is hurting big time, they’re the new poster boy for what is wrong with today’s corporate culture. Profiteering over quality and due diligence, outsourcing on steroids and too close of a relationship with regulators that has burned both parties in the end. Every single product from the 787, 777X, KC46 and 737MAX has had major issues (and so has Airbus to a lesser extent).

Yes, every time you take a leap with technology and innovation things tend to go wrong. But from my perspective Boeing has failed to learn from their past mistakes, and I don’t think blaming one person at the top is sufficient.

Cell phone batteries explode, car manufacturers install cheat devices, financial institutions play roulette with people’s pensions, and the corporate entities responsible survive and thrive. So will Boeing in the end.

I think the 737MAX will fly again, and will probably be the “safest” aircraft in the sky. The FAA has to both create the public perception, and the regulatory reality, of intense scrutiny and robust recertification. I don’t know how long that will take, but I think the 737MAX family will fly, delivered and ordered in 2020.

KrisYYZ
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:10 pm

Perhaps worth remembering that the night is darkest just before dawn
Boeing is still a great company with very strong aviation expertise. When you watch the news, you are hearing only the painful stuff... engineers are doing all they can to fix the 737 Max for re-certification and Boeing PR people will be doing everything they can to avoid bits of good news getting out if there is a risk of it being followed immediately by bad news - ie better for an athlete to train quietly and then win a major race, instead of boasting about how well training is going only to then come last in the competitive race.

There are a lot of people aware that their careers depend on the Max flying again... but you are not hearing about their efforts in the public arena

Have a little more faith and patience. It's not a baseball team, but broken machines can be fixed with enough time and effort
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 19734
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:19 pm

American 767 wrote:
How about a few more orders for 748Fs? That would be nice, especially for the 747 production line. Keep the Queen going on an on.

Too late. A major vendor couldn't viably produce at the low production rate, we had a thread on that.
viewtopic.php?t=1435359

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
IAmGaroott
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:37 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:22 pm

We probably won't see positive growth (public trust, new aircraft models, etc.) until the late 2020s.

As for next year? Let's focus on getting the MAX recertified.
 
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BawliBooch
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:24 am

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:56 pm

The first step towards solving a problem is admitting you have a problem. And Boeing has many. The management has to honestly admit that they have these systemic problems which need fixing and get down to it.

Antaras wrote:
Boeing's bucket list in 2020:
- Bring the 777X-9 and 737MAX10 to the sky.
- Announce the NMA (some clean sheet designs or just modernized-767 models as rumours?) to compete with the hot-selling A321XLRs.
- Most importantly, recertify the MAXs and convince everyone that the MAXs will be safe and there will be no more crashes and troubles.
- Acquire Embraer successfully.

Do you think Boeing will make it?

Just leaving a picture of the MAX10 here for no reasons :D


Well, Just get the MAX flying reliably again. Period. Rest can happen in due time.
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
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DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:15 am

A sizable chunk of people (enough to affect the bottom line) refusing to fly the MAX? I'll believe it when I see it.

Boeing is too far in, airlines are too far in, they'll make the MAX work.

Honestly, even if Boeing decided to scrap the MAX, do you know how much of a ****show it'll be for not just Boeing, but many airlines? Boeing can't just wave their hands and make a 737 replacement in a few months or even years. What will the airlines do? Even if Airbus wanted to, they're in no position to fill all the 737 orders with A320.

Complete madness, the MAX will fly again, and almost no one in the normal traveling public is gonna know and care. I never gamble but if I did, I'd throw so much money down on that

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