Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Cdydatzigs
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 3:31 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:29 pm

Jetty wrote:
A return of a 50 year old design will never make a great year, even if it was grounded before.


A 50-year old fuselage shape is more accurate. Granted that one similarity to the original model is what contains the fatal flaw.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4423
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:39 pm

Boeing has taken advantage of every political power it possessed in the last 10 years, fair/unfair, ethical/unethical, smart/stupid. Political winds are no longer to its advantage and are in fact against it. It will be several years before it recovers that lost political advantage, if ever. Its miscalculations over the last ten years, only now coming home to roost, are the stuff out of which big companies have been known to fail. They can recover, but a couple more strategic failures could be fatal.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:45 am

Amiga500 wrote:
How can they make a great comeback when the best case scenario will still result in:

- An overall program cost which is multiples of what a clean sheet 737 replacement would have cost
- An overall delivery slippage and schedule which is at best similar to what the ramp of a clean sheet 737 replacement would have had
- A technology base 50 years in arrears to what a clean sheet 737 replacement would have delivered to the Boeing portfolio.


Logically you have this all wrong. A "great comeback" assumes that there is a low point to rise up from. You're implying they can't have a comeback because they made a mistake. That's a predicate of coming back up!

P.S. Even with this mess it's far from a guarantee that a clean-sheet design would have been better financially and for future development.

Amiga500 wrote:
There can be no "comeback", right now there is a hole below the waterline and Boeing cannot bail the water out anything like quick enough. When they get the MAX back into the air, that hole just becomes a bit smaller - and whether that means they can bail water our quicker than it comes in remains to be seen in future.

Worst case scenario is that they drop to a ~25% single-aisle market share. Best case scenario is that they secure a ~40% single-aisle marketshare. Even the best case scenario is not acceptable given where Boeing were 15 years ago.


If the definition of greatness is based solely on narrowbody market share, enjoy your cherries.

scbriml wrote:
Boeing exists to make profits. As such, appeasement of shareholders and Wall St takes top priority. Talking about giving away planes that don’t exist is pointless.


Appeasement? Do you think companies exist as just another form of a charity?
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19299
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:58 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Appeasement?


Yes, appeasement.

to satisfy, allay, or relieve; assuage:
The fruit appeased his hunger.


Boeing's actions in declaring a dividend at a time when it would have been perfectly reasonable not to, appeased shareholders and Wall St. It's a perfectly acceptable use of the word.
Last edited by scbriml on Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Interested
Posts: 887
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 12:19 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:00 am

scbriml wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Appeasement?


Yes, appeasement.

to satisfy, allay, or relieve; assuage:
The fruit appeased his hunger.


Boeing's actions in declaring a dividend at a time when it would have been perfectly reasonable not to, appeased shareholders and Wall St. It's a perfectly reasonable use of the word.


At the same time they didn't pay their employees a Xmas bonus
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19299
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:07 am

Interested wrote:
scbriml wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Appeasement?


Yes, appeasement.

to satisfy, allay, or relieve; assuage:
The fruit appeased his hunger.


Boeing's actions in declaring a dividend at a time when it would have been perfectly reasonable not to, appeased shareholders and Wall St. It's a perfectly reasonable use of the word.


At the same time they didn't pay their employees a Xmas bonus


Well that won't have appeased their workforce!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Mightyflyer86
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:50 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:55 pm

scbriml wrote:
Interested wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Yes, appeasement.

to satisfy, allay, or relieve; assuage:
The fruit appeased his hunger.


Boeing's actions in declaring a dividend at a time when it would have been perfectly reasonable not to, appeased shareholders and Wall St. It's a perfectly reasonable use of the word.


At the same time they didn't pay their employees a Xmas bonus


Well that won't have appeased their workforce!



They are not interested in appeasing the workforce. Boeing’s actions are directed towards shareholder appeasement. Everything they have done since the MAX inception in 2011 has been to compete with Airbus with minimal investment, promise customers that the MAX is the same as the NG (which drove the MCAS development) and returning massive amounts of money to shareholders via dividends and buybacks.
 
Checklist787
Posts: 566
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:37 am

BOEING (BCA) Situation : General topic 2020, let's get disscus!

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:29 am



Hi!


Today, Monday, 13th January 2020,


The president and CEO D. Calhoun should takes office and control of Boeing to try to fix or improve the situation. Many have speculated that this gentleman from GE will not reform the framemaker this one would keep according to the "make money" culture.


:arrow: 2020 will be a decisive year for the Boeing futur in the civil sector



So,
    - Will Boeing could make consensus or abandon it to "hyper capitalism" which has so damaged its reputation?

    - If the 737MAX fails, is a new clean-sheet design on the table ?

    - Or any other emerging issues or good news ...



Please let's disscus this topic with
pleasant discution
well-founded views, respect, and without bias
Thanks :)


.
"No limit to my poooWer!!!
Do it! "...
 
Adipocere
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:35 am

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:41 pm

While it’s cleaning house, Boeing also needs to stop looking at its engineering resources as some sacred cow. After all Boeing’s engineers are the ones who wrote and signed off on the code. Boeing must fire frontline engineers and technical people involved with the MAX with the same vigor as their managers.

Longer term they need to reduce their reliance on a somewhat washed up engineering workforce in the Northwest and look to open new design centers in Europe, Ukraine, China to diversify and find new hungry talent.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8475
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:56 pm

Adipocere wrote:
While it’s cleaning house, Boeing also needs to stop looking at its engineering resources as some sacred cow. After all Boeing’s engineers are the ones who wrote and signed off on the code. Boeing must fire frontline engineers and technical people involved with the MAX as much as their managers.

Longer term they need to reduce their reliance on a somewhat washed up engineering workforce in the Northwest and look to open new design centers in Europe, Ukraine, China to diversify and fine new hungry talent.


Seriously,. Cost cutting goals set by out of touch senior management is the #1 problem for Boeing.

This cost cutting trend started with 787 program.
    Components which had excellent MTBF started failing prematurely.
    Falling FAL quality
    Unprecedented amount of change work
    Reduction in worldwide parts depots
    Cheap plastic interiors
    Didn't spare simulator and training programs

I hope there is another data dump on what actually engineers recommended for MAX and what management picked would be nice. We know they didn't pick synthetic airspeed option even though airspeed unreliable issue was first noticed in 2013.
All posts are just opinions.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4423
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:39 pm

Recovery should start this year, but it will not be a single year project. Long term it will be 2025 before we will say that Boeing is a center of excellence. Maybe 2023 if Buffet buys the commercial side. Source, me - total rumor. LOL
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
patrickjp93
Posts: 648
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:00 pm

Re: Can Boeing make a great come back in 2020?

Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:44 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Recovery should start this year, but it will not be a single year project. Long term it will be 2025 before we will say that Boeing is a center of excellence. Maybe 2023 if Buffet buys the commercial side. Source, me - total rumor. LOL


Buffett never buys tech firms. It's not gonna happen. He divested of IBM, and that was the only one he had big stake in.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: accargofra, AM764, Aquila3, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Clydenairways, cougar15, csturdiv, David L, francibastiglia, Fuling, gensys, mrglue, n757kw, NateGreat, Obzerva, prchan, sirtoby, TG788 and 265 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos