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kavok
Topic Author
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Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:26 pm

Fort Lauderdale Airport’s Terminal #2 (aka the Delta Terminal) is in the midst of a $177million renovation project. The only current tenants of Terminal #2 are Delta and Air Canada, which seems like an unusual combination. Next door, in Terminal #1, is United and WestJet together, among others.

My question is, why aren’t Air Canada and WestJet swapping terminals with the renovation, and how did they get into their current arrangement in the first place? As an outsider looking in, both United and Delta have larger operations at FLL than their Canadian partner. It just seems strange with the renovations occurring, that WestJet and AirCanada didn’t use the opportunity to swap terminal locations.

Anyone here know the history, or why that change isn’t happening?
 
jakeroberts212
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:27 pm

kavok wrote:
Fort Lauderdale Airport’s Terminal #2 (aka the Delta Terminal) is in the midst of a $177million renovation project. The only current tenants of Terminal #2 are Delta and Air Canada, which seems like an unusual combination. Next door, in Terminal #1, is United and WestJet together, among others.

My question is, why aren’t Air Canada and WestJet swapping terminals with the renovation, and how did they get into their current arrangement in the first place? As an outsider looking in, both United and Delta have larger operations at FLL than their Canadian partner. It just seems strange with the renovations occurring, that WestJet and AirCanada didn’t use the opportunity to swap terminal locations.

Anyone here know the history, or why that change isn’t happening?


They're also terminal partners at TPA with F9. I'm sure there's other airports DL and AC must share a terminal, no?
 
727LOVER
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:37 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
They're also terminal partners at TPA with F9. I'm sure there's other airports DL and AC must share a terminal, no?


They were both in the old Airside C...but IIRC had moved out of C...but I forget where they went Could be wrong about AC moving.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
kavok
Topic Author
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:41 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
kavok wrote:
Fort Lauderdale Airport’s Terminal #2 (aka the Delta Terminal) is in the midst of a $177million renovation project. The only current tenants of Terminal #2 are Delta and Air Canada, which seems like an unusual combination. Next door, in Terminal #1, is United and WestJet together, among others.

My question is, why aren’t Air Canada and WestJet swapping terminals with the renovation, and how did they get into their current arrangement in the first place? As an outsider looking in, both United and Delta have larger operations at FLL than their Canadian partner. It just seems strange with the renovations occurring, that WestJet and AirCanada didn’t use the opportunity to swap terminal locations.

Anyone here know the history, or why that change isn’t happening?


They're also terminal partners at TPA with F9. I'm sure there's other airports DL and AC must share a terminal, no?


Just in the FLL case, it seemed particularly odd given that it was only AC and DL sharing T2. Add to it that T2 is known as the “DL terminal” and being renovated with a new SkyClub, AC just seemed like an odd partner. I know obviously in a lot of airports there aren’t “alliance terminals”, but for some reason FLL T2’s pairing seemed more unusual.
Last edited by kavok on Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
drgmobile
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:41 pm

I wouldn't want to speculate (openly) on the reasons why, but Air Canada is away from its partner and in bad locations at many U.S. airports. Lauderdale may be a mostly leisure destination, but it's a big one; Frequent business flyers also take vacations and the Lauderdale airport experience is not quite what we are used to. At Reagan National, AC is grouped with the low cost carriers at Terminal A, and much as I like the quinoa salad at the restaurant there, I'd rather be co-located in an area where I'd have access to a United Club. Etc, etc...
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 475
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:52 pm

drgmobile wrote:
I wouldn't want to speculate (openly) on the reasons why, but Air Canada is away from its partner and in bad locations at many U.S. airports. Lauderdale may be a mostly leisure destination, but it's a big one; Frequent business flyers also take vacations and the Lauderdale airport experience is not quite what we are used to. At Reagan National, AC is grouped with the low cost carriers at Terminal A, and much as I like the quinoa salad at the restaurant there, I'd rather be co-located in an area where I'd have access to a United Club. Etc, etc...


I've wondered that recently - with the United Club in FLL Terminal 1, wouldn't that provide a benefit to premium AC travelers even Rouge travelers?
 
drgmobile
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:05 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
drgmobile wrote:
I wouldn't want to speculate (openly) on the reasons why, but Air Canada is away from its partner and in bad locations at many U.S. airports. Lauderdale may be a mostly leisure destination, but it's a big one; Frequent business flyers also take vacations and the Lauderdale airport experience is not quite what we are used to. At Reagan National, AC is grouped with the low cost carriers at Terminal A, and much as I like the quinoa salad at the restaurant there, I'd rather be co-located in an area where I'd have access to a United Club. Etc, etc...


I've wondered that recently - with the United Club in FLL Terminal 1, wouldn't that provide a benefit to premium AC travelers even Rouge travelers?


Indeed; the idea that there is a distinct "Rouge traveller" is a bit of a misconception. Air Canada frequent flyers will buy a variety of products, depending on reason for travel and budget. For example, I've been to Tel Aviv and back in each of the AC products offered -- full J, premium economy, and economy. Of the advantages of flying Rouge over Transat, WestJet or an American carrier, a better on-the-ground experience has as much value (if not more) than just getting Aeroplan points, at least for me.
 
OB1504
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:14 pm

There isn’t much need to since neither Air Canada and United nor WestJet and Delta are connecting any passengers to each other at FLL.
 
flymia
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:45 pm

No one is connecting, so I just don't think the airlines really care much. That being said in the coming years all terminals will be connected airside making access to any lounge available to all passengers.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
yyztpa2
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:59 pm

Even though Air Canada is in Star along with United, Air Canada and Delta seem to have had a business affinity. I've wondered if this might be residual from the Hollis Harris days. It will be interesting to see if this changes with the recent Delta / WestJet JV.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:03 am

When Midwest was around they also used Delta's terminal at FLL.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:39 am

kavok wrote:
Fort Lauderdale Airport’s Terminal #2 (aka the Delta Terminal) is in the midst of a $177million renovation project. The only current tenants of Terminal #2 are Delta and Air Canada, which seems like an unusual combination. Next door, in Terminal #1, is United and WestJet together, among others.


Partners? Delta has some responsibility for construction but are DL and AC anything more than tenants?
 
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Aisak
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:05 am

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
I've wondered that recently - with the United Club in FLL Terminal 1, wouldn't that provide a benefit to premium AC travelers even Rouge travelers?

While Business/First Class are usually entitled to lounge access, at least in most parts of the world, that access means a cost to the carrier. A carrier might:
- invest money in a lounge if the airport agrees.
- sign a contract with an existing lounge operator where usually every access is a cost to the airline.
- let the passengers flow to an existing alliance partner’s lounge as above, but the contract is already signed “by default”. Although unit costs might vary.
- if no alliance lounges are available, and you want to play cheap, offer no lounge access.

The thing gets trickier with FF tiers but essentially someone has to pay for the passenger to use the premises.

If Air Canada colocates with United, there is nothing stopping passengers on Air Canada services from using the United Club. But if AC (and if this is rouge, the lower cost arm...) flies from another terminal, they might sign a better agreement with any lounge at the terminal or even say that no lounge access is available (BA has been doing this at several airports around Europe)

That’s how you can get around alliance benefits and avoid its associated costs.
 
KFLLCFII
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:41 am

If I had to guess, it probably has to do with shared ground handling services.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
phllax
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:52 am

It’s more to do with wide body gate availability in T2 for AC than anything else. Most gates can handle 767 variants. I do not think anything in T1 can do more than 321/757/739.
 
bohica
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:56 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any gates in Concourse C where UA is located are capable of handling widebodies. AC flies 767's into FLL on a regular basis.
 
drdisque
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:06 am

Yes, the reason that AC is in T2 is wide bodies. Also remember that UA was completely absent from FLL from 2009 to 2011.

In TPA AC used UA gates on E and UA ground handled them. In the merger UA consolidated on C and AC stayed on E for some reason.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:17 am

AC has been in T2 for a while. At one point, AC had close to 9 flights a day out of FLL. In its "slow" season they have 4. Compared to Westjet's sole flight in the off season...

Add in AC tends to send down 767s and even an occasional A330/787 and now you can't park at T1 unless you block 2 gates.
xx
 
Dominion301
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:53 pm

usxguy wrote:
AC has been in T2 for a while. At one point, AC had close to 9 flights a day out of FLL. In its "slow" season they have 4. Compared to Westjet's sole flight in the off season...

Add in AC tends to send down 767s and even an occasional A330/787 and now you can't park at T1 unless you block 2 gates.


This winter AC Rouge flies to FLL 10x/day, all 767s save for the daily 319 to YOW.
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:05 pm

What all does this renovation entails? Is it Delta specific?


kavok wrote:
Fort Lauderdale Airport’s Terminal #2 (aka the Delta Terminal) is in the midst of a $177million renovation project. The only current tenants of Terminal #2 are Delta and Air Canada, which seems like an unusual combination. Next door, in Terminal #1, is United and WestJet together, among others.

My question is, why aren’t Air Canada and WestJet swapping terminals with the renovation, and how did they get into their current arrangement in the first place? As an outsider looking in, both United and Delta have larger operations at FLL than their Canadian partner. It just seems strange with the renovations occurring, that WestJet and AirCanada didn’t use the opportunity to swap terminal locations.

Anyone here know the history, or why that change isn’t happening?
 
kavok
Topic Author
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:21 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
What all does this renovation entails? Is it Delta specific?


kavok wrote:
Fort Lauderdale Airport’s Terminal #2 (aka the Delta Terminal) is in the midst of a $177million renovation project. The only current tenants of Terminal #2 are Delta and Air Canada, which seems like an unusual combination. Next door, in Terminal #1, is United and WestJet together, among others.

My question is, why aren’t Air Canada and WestJet swapping terminals with the renovation, and how did they get into their current arrangement in the first place? As an outsider looking in, both United and Delta have larger operations at FLL than their Canadian partner. It just seems strange with the renovations occurring, that WestJet and AirCanada didn’t use the opportunity to swap terminal locations.

Anyone here know the history, or why that change isn’t happening?


I don’t know all the details, or how much of the renovation cost is being paid by Delta, but basically it includes a new airside atrium, expanded waiting space, more and better food/shopping options, a new DL skyclub, and airside connections to the neighboring terminals.
 
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:39 pm

Looks like it's gonna real nice.....

atlflyer wrote:
https://www.greshamsmith.com/project/fort-lauderdale-hollywood-international-airport-terminal-2-modernization/
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:35 pm

727LOVER wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:
They're also terminal partners at TPA with F9. I'm sure there's other airports DL and AC must share a terminal, no?


They were both in the old Airside C...but IIRC had moved out of C...but I forget where they went Could be wrong about AC moving.


I have a memory from the late 90's or early 2000's of a gate reshuffle where AC moved from gate C31 to Airside D (gate D46 IIRC), before moving to the then-new 2002 Airside E. This would have positioned AC and UA together. During this same time, NW moved from Airside D to Airside A as part of its then-growing relationship with CO. DL took over gate C31 as its Delta Express operation was growing. By then, 3M (Gulfstream) had already moved their operations from gate D46 & D47 over to gate A1 as part of its expanding partnership with CO.

drdisque wrote:
In TPA AC used UA gates on E and UA ground handled them. In the merger UA consolidated on C and AC stayed on E for some reason.


UA has never served Airside C, neither in its circa-1971 or circa-2005 form. But UA did consolidate on Airside A with CO post-merger.
 
njdevilsin03
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Re: Why are AC and DL terminal 2 partners at FLL?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:36 pm

Pretty sure C2 at FLL is the only gate handles wide bodies. The occasional 764 etc. would be awfully difficult to get the AC wide bodies, 2 at a time Into concourse C
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