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Nicknuzzii
Topic Author
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:13 pm

Norwegian, once flying to 3 major NYC airports with routes from Europe down to the Caribbean spread across their 3 NYC stations is now down to just JFK. 2019 saw them cut SWF and EWR (Arguably their best performer) along with tremendous cuts to JFK (only flying 60% of the flights) Copenhagen and Stockholm also got the axe. Madrid will be gone shortly. Guadalupe and Martinique are no longer flown. How could such a large airline make such an embarrassment of themselves in one of the largest markets in the world?
 
PDXBJV
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:25 am

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:25 pm

Could also have something to do with the 737MAX grounding? idk just a thought.
TK787 PDX-BJV direct????
 
P1aneMad
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:05 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:53 pm

Last summer season they launched JFK-ATH route in July and this year they are starting in March, earlier than all the three majors.
So it seems they are not just cutting but trying some new staff too.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2961
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:54 pm

FDF and PTP ops weren’t profitable, and not just from NY, but from BOS and YUL as well. The whole operation was in the red. Hence why it got cut.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
User avatar
bluefltspecial
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:27 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:12 pm

There are numerous threads on this site if you’re actually interested in the subject. I would suggest reading up on them first rather than posting a poorly worded statement/question. In terms of actual information, If you’d like to keep up with changes to flight schedules, I’d consider subscribing to RoutesOnline daily email. They are great for us nerdy types that follow schedule changes.

EWR

Norwegian did not actually want to operate to/from EWR. When Norwegian wanted to expand, they were told by the Port Authority that due to slot availability at JFK, their only option was to operate from EWR. Calling their bluff, Norwegian operated at EWR until they could consolidate at JFK. EWR is more expensive to operate from. From my understanding, while the Orly flight did ok, it did not due as well as CDG. The original plan was to operate to ORY to allow connections to other Scandi cities as a backup/reroute. CDG has been their biggest surprise in terms of load factor and yield. Due to engine issues with RR the ORY and BCN flights from EWR were operated often by wetleases, providing a less than pleasant experience in comparison to the 787 product.

JFK

JFK is likely their largest station, you stated there was a 60% cut in flying. I may be wrong, but I do not believe that is accurate. Most people forget that the majority of Norwegian’s flights operate only a few days a week. Case in point CPH & ARN, which operated 3 and 2 times weekly, respectively. The CPH and ARN flights were cut as they were only profitable in summer, but the yield was likely not as high as other flights. By cutting those flights at EWR, they moved the BCN and FCO flights over to JFK, consolidating operations at JFK allowing a cost reduction and improved synergies. BCN & FCO will operate daily in summer where CPH & ARN did not resutling in an increase in flights. Flights like MAD and AMS which operated daily, get a seasonal reduction due to lower demand in winter but still operate. While we currently see MAD is not loaded past 26MAR20, AMS goes daily again 20MAR20. ATH returns earlier in the season and CDG increases 9-10 times a week.

AMS returns to daily 20MAR20
ATH starts earlier - 01APR20 - operates 4 days a week
BCN returns to daily 26FEB20
FCO returns to daily 27MAR20
CDG returns to daily 11MAR20 - will operate double daily some days
LGW continues with 15-18 flights a week through summer
MAD not loaded past 26MAR20
OSL continues with 4 flights a week through summer

Barring any announcements of new flights to replace the MAD slot, on peak days you’ll see an increase to as many as 10 flights a day operating from JFK in summer.

SWF


While some of the SWF routes were not feasible long term, others did better than expectations. From what has been stated on this site, Ireland routes apparently held a decent yield during summer. BGO stayed longer than anyone expected hinting there is likely some decent yield there as well. The 737 Max grounding required them to operate the 737-800 in place of the Max which needed a weight restriction - making the flights unfeasible, and the discontinuation of transoceanic flights with their narrow-body fleet for the time being.

Time will tell if they will jump back in to the transoceanic narrowbody market when the Max returns, keep in mind they also have the A321 on order, we'll see if they end up operating it, or if it gets leased out to airlines like Titan instead.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
How could such a large airline make such an embarrassment of themselves in one of the largest markets in the world?


That's a pretty bold statement from an Armchair CEO.

You're already aware of the issues with the MAX and the 787 RR engine issues. Your question, however, is poorly worded. "One of the largest markets in the world" but doesn't say which market? Are you talking about NYC-Europe, if so, they're still in "that market" and doing quite well as they are continuing to expand, as I've stated above. If however, you're insinuating that airlines that discontinue flights that are unprofitable should be considered an "embarrassment of themselves," then that would be just about every airline.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
LHUSA
Posts: 824
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:12 pm

They are simply cutting the lower yield, lower demand NYC-area ops and consolidating to a single, more efficient single operation at JFK. They will likely find the higher yields and hope to enjoy cost-reductions by focusing on only airport. The strategy makes sense, but may be too little too late.
 
smokeybandit
Posts: 1371
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:24 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:13 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
FDF and PTP ops weren’t profitable, and not just from NY, but from BOS and YUL as well. The whole operation was in the red. Hence why it got cut.


Also failed from BWI
 
Nicknuzzii
Topic Author
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:43 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
There are numerous threads on this site if you’re actually interested in the subject. I would suggest reading up on them first rather than posting a poorly worded statement/question. In terms of actual information, If you’d like to keep up with changes to flight schedules, I’d consider subscribing to RoutesOnline daily email. They are great for us nerdy types that follow schedule changes.

EWR

Norwegian did not actually want to operate to/from EWR. When Norwegian wanted to expand, they were told by the Port Authority that due to slot availability at JFK, their only option was to operate from EWR. Calling their bluff, Norwegian operated at EWR until they could consolidate at JFK. EWR is more expensive to operate from. From my understanding, while the Orly flight did ok, it did not due as well as CDG. The original plan was to operate to ORY to allow connections to other Scandi cities as a backup/reroute. CDG has been their biggest surprise in terms of load factor and yield. Due to engine issues with RR the ORY and BCN flights from EWR were operated often by wetleases, providing a less than pleasant experience in comparison to the 787 product.

JFK

JFK is likely their largest station, you stated there was a 60% cut in flying. I may be wrong, but I do not believe that is accurate. Most people forget that the majority of Norwegian’s flights operate only a few days a week. Case in point CPH & ARN, which operated 3 and 2 times weekly, respectively. The CPH and ARN flights were cut as they were only profitable in summer, but the yield was likely not as high as other flights. By cutting those flights at EWR, they moved the BCN and FCO flights over to JFK, consolidating operations at JFK allowing a cost reduction and improved synergies. BCN & FCO will operate daily in summer where CPH & ARN did not resutling in an increase in flights. Flights like MAD and AMS which operated daily, get a seasonal reduction due to lower demand in winter but still operate. While we currently see MAD is not loaded past 26MAR20, AMS goes daily again 20MAR20. ATH returns earlier in the season and CDG increases 9-10 times a week.

AMS returns to daily 20MAR20
ATH starts earlier - 01APR20 - operates 4 days a week
BCN returns to daily 26FEB20
FCO returns to daily 27MAR20
CDG returns to daily 11MAR20 - will operate double daily some days
LGW continues with 15-18 flights a week through summer
MAD not loaded past 26MAR20
OSL continues with 4 flights a week through summer

Barring any announcements of new flights to replace the MAD slot, on peak days you’ll see an increase to as many as 10 flights a day operating from JFK in summer.

SWF


While some of the SWF routes were not feasible long term, others did better than expectations. From what has been stated on this site, Ireland routes apparently held a decent yield during summer. BGO stayed longer than anyone expected hinting there is likely some decent yield there as well. The 737 Max grounding required them to operate the 737-800 in place of the Max which needed a weight restriction - making the flights unfeasible, and the discontinuation of transoceanic flights with their narrow-body fleet for the time being.

Time will tell if they will jump back in to the transoceanic narrowbody market when the Max returns, keep in mind they also have the A321 on order, we'll see if they end up operating it, or if it gets leased out to airlines like Titan instead.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
How could such a large airline make such an embarrassment of themselves in one of the largest markets in the world?


That's a pretty bold statement from an Armchair CEO.

You're already aware of the issues with the MAX and the 787 RR engine issues. Your question, however, is poorly worded. "One of the largest markets in the world" but doesn't say which market? Are you talking about NYC-Europe, if so, they're still in "that market" and doing quite well as they are continuing to expand, as I've stated above. If however, you're insinuating that airlines that discontinue flights that are unprofitable should be considered an "embarrassment of themselves," then that would be just about every airline.


Geez I didn’t know Norwegian fanboys existed... There is no way with a straight face you can tell me that DY only served EWR because they couldn’t get into JFK. Airlines we’re adding flights to JFK the whole time DY was at EWR, they would have easily been able to acquire slots. EWR was profitable for DY and they would not have flown it if it wasn’t. Fares were continuously higher and loads better. JFK is very overrated and perhaps their idiotic decision to leave EWR originated from their poor management.

New York is one of the largest markets I was not signaling out any routes in particular. They operated a handful and now only fly way less than 60% of them. They are becoming irrelevant in NYC and will not last much longer anywhere.
 
sevenair
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:50 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:
There are numerous threads on this site if you’re actually interested in the subject. I would suggest reading up on them first rather than posting a poorly worded statement/question. In terms of actual information, If you’d like to keep up with changes to flight schedules, I’d consider subscribing to RoutesOnline daily email. They are great for us nerdy types that follow schedule changes.

EWR

Norwegian did not actually want to operate to/from EWR. When Norwegian wanted to expand, they were told by the Port Authority that due to slot availability at JFK, their only option was to operate from EWR. Calling their bluff, Norwegian operated at EWR until they could consolidate at JFK. EWR is more expensive to operate from. From my understanding, while the Orly flight did ok, it did not due as well as CDG. The original plan was to operate to ORY to allow connections to other Scandi cities as a backup/reroute. CDG has been their biggest surprise in terms of load factor and yield. Due to engine issues with RR the ORY and BCN flights from EWR were operated often by wetleases, providing a less than pleasant experience in comparison to the 787 product.

JFK

JFK is likely their largest station, you stated there was a 60% cut in flying. I may be wrong, but I do not believe that is accurate. Most people forget that the majority of Norwegian’s flights operate only a few days a week. Case in point CPH & ARN, which operated 3 and 2 times weekly, respectively. The CPH and ARN flights were cut as they were only profitable in summer, but the yield was likely not as high as other flights. By cutting those flights at EWR, they moved the BCN and FCO flights over to JFK, consolidating operations at JFK allowing a cost reduction and improved synergies. BCN & FCO will operate daily in summer where CPH & ARN did not resutling in an increase in flights. Flights like MAD and AMS which operated daily, get a seasonal reduction due to lower demand in winter but still operate. While we currently see MAD is not loaded past 26MAR20, AMS goes daily again 20MAR20. ATH returns earlier in the season and CDG increases 9-10 times a week.

AMS returns to daily 20MAR20
ATH starts earlier - 01APR20 - operates 4 days a week
BCN returns to daily 26FEB20
FCO returns to daily 27MAR20
CDG returns to daily 11MAR20 - will operate double daily some days
LGW continues with 15-18 flights a week through summer
MAD not loaded past 26MAR20
OSL continues with 4 flights a week through summer

Barring any announcements of new flights to replace the MAD slot, on peak days you’ll see an increase to as many as 10 flights a day operating from JFK in summer.

SWF


While some of the SWF routes were not feasible long term, others did better than expectations. From what has been stated on this site, Ireland routes apparently held a decent yield during summer. BGO stayed longer than anyone expected hinting there is likely some decent yield there as well. The 737 Max grounding required them to operate the 737-800 in place of the Max which needed a weight restriction - making the flights unfeasible, and the discontinuation of transoceanic flights with their narrow-body fleet for the time being.

Time will tell if they will jump back in to the transoceanic narrowbody market when the Max returns, keep in mind they also have the A321 on order, we'll see if they end up operating it, or if it gets leased out to airlines like Titan instead.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
How could such a large airline make such an embarrassment of themselves in one of the largest markets in the world?


That's a pretty bold statement from an Armchair CEO.

You're already aware of the issues with the MAX and the 787 RR engine issues. Your question, however, is poorly worded. "One of the largest markets in the world" but doesn't say which market? Are you talking about NYC-Europe, if so, they're still in "that market" and doing quite well as they are continuing to expand, as I've stated above. If however, you're insinuating that airlines that discontinue flights that are unprofitable should be considered an "embarrassment of themselves," then that would be just about every airline.


Geez I didn’t know Norwegian fanboys existed... There is no way with a straight face you can tell me that DY only served EWR because they couldn’t get into JFK. Airlines we’re adding flights to JFK the whole time DY was at EWR, they would have easily been able to acquire slots. EWR was profitable for DY and they would not have flown it if it wasn’t. Fares were continuously higher and loads better. JFK is very overrated and perhaps their idiotic decision to leave EWR originated from their poor management.

New York is one of the largest markets I was not signaling out any routes in particular. They operated a handful and now only fly way less than 60% of them. They are becoming irrelevant in NYC and will not last much longer anywhere.


You call out an alleged Norwegian fanboy yet its clear that your post and original questions are very loaded. Could it be that you've got some internalised hatred for Norwegian?
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4702
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:53 pm

If you look thru a.net Norwegian wouldn't make it to the end of 2016. Lots of Norwegian haters on here. To say they failed I'm NYC is a joke. They have up to ten flights a day next summer LOL. They could never have known about all the 787 engine issues and 737 max issues. They had to adjust.
 
fraT
Posts: 1174
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:32 am

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:16 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Norwegian, once flying to 3 major NYC airports with routes from Europe down to the Caribbean spread across their 3 NYC stations is now down to just JFK. 2019 saw them cut SWF and EWR (Arguably their best performer) along with tremendous cuts to JFK (only flying 60% of the flights) Copenhagen and Stockholm also got the axe. Madrid will be gone shortly. Guadalupe and Martinique are no longer flown. How could such a large airline make such an embarrassment of themselves in one of the largest markets in the world?


Sorry for being slightly off-topic but calling SWF a major airport made me chuckle.
 
Monotropa
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:50 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:27 pm

One could indeed argue that no airline was hit harder by RR engine issues. Add the MAX grounding to that and one can really see that Norwegian has been in an uphill battle for a long time in regard to equipment. I'm not a fanboy, but I've got to give them respect for adapting the way they have.

Chasing profit and dealing with that level of equipment challenge might have sunk a less adaptable carrier.

They're consolidating at JFK, yes, but who's to say that in the future they won't be back at EWR and/or SWF.
 
LHUSA
Posts: 824
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:27 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
If you look thru a.net Norwegian wouldn't make it to the end of 2016. Lots of Norwegian haters on here. To say they failed I'm NYC is a joke. They have up to ten flights a day next summer LOL. They could never have known about all the 787 engine issues and 737 max issues. They had to adjust.


People can ask questions without being haters. And that speculation didn't arise out of thin air; their financials are atrocious quarter after quarter. Just recently they had to put up their Gatwick slots as collateral simply to postpone payment on $380 million in unsecured bonds. Not a great sign.

Just recently Norwegian has finally made some big moves to return to profitability, this NYC strategy included.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2562
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:12 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:
There are numerous threads on this site if you’re actually interested in the subject. I would suggest reading up on them first rather than posting a poorly worded statement/question. In terms of actual information, If you’d like to keep up with changes to flight schedules, I’d consider subscribing to RoutesOnline daily email. They are great for us nerdy types that follow schedule changes.

EWR

Norwegian did not actually want to operate to/from EWR. When Norwegian wanted to expand, they were told by the Port Authority that due to slot availability at JFK, their only option was to operate from EWR. Calling their bluff, Norwegian operated at EWR until they could consolidate at JFK. EWR is more expensive to operate from. From my understanding, while the Orly flight did ok, it did not due as well as CDG. The original plan was to operate to ORY to allow connections to other Scandi cities as a backup/reroute. CDG has been their biggest surprise in terms of load factor and yield. Due to engine issues with RR the ORY and BCN flights from EWR were operated often by wetleases, providing a less than pleasant experience in comparison to the 787 product.

JFK

JFK is likely their largest station, you stated there was a 60% cut in flying. I may be wrong, but I do not believe that is accurate. Most people forget that the majority of Norwegian’s flights operate only a few days a week. Case in point CPH & ARN, which operated 3 and 2 times weekly, respectively. The CPH and ARN flights were cut as they were only profitable in summer, but the yield was likely not as high as other flights. By cutting those flights at EWR, they moved the BCN and FCO flights over to JFK, consolidating operations at JFK allowing a cost reduction and improved synergies. BCN & FCO will operate daily in summer where CPH & ARN did not resutling in an increase in flights. Flights like MAD and AMS which operated daily, get a seasonal reduction due to lower demand in winter but still operate. While we currently see MAD is not loaded past 26MAR20, AMS goes daily again 20MAR20. ATH returns earlier in the season and CDG increases 9-10 times a week.

AMS returns to daily 20MAR20
ATH starts earlier - 01APR20 - operates 4 days a week
BCN returns to daily 26FEB20
FCO returns to daily 27MAR20
CDG returns to daily 11MAR20 - will operate double daily some days
LGW continues with 15-18 flights a week through summer
MAD not loaded past 26MAR20
OSL continues with 4 flights a week through summer

Barring any announcements of new flights to replace the MAD slot, on peak days you’ll see an increase to as many as 10 flights a day operating from JFK in summer.

SWF


While some of the SWF routes were not feasible long term, others did better than expectations. From what has been stated on this site, Ireland routes apparently held a decent yield during summer. BGO stayed longer than anyone expected hinting there is likely some decent yield there as well. The 737 Max grounding required them to operate the 737-800 in place of the Max which needed a weight restriction - making the flights unfeasible, and the discontinuation of transoceanic flights with their narrow-body fleet for the time being.

Time will tell if they will jump back in to the transoceanic narrowbody market when the Max returns, keep in mind they also have the A321 on order, we'll see if they end up operating it, or if it gets leased out to airlines like Titan instead.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
How could such a large airline make such an embarrassment of themselves in one of the largest markets in the world?


That's a pretty bold statement from an Armchair CEO.

You're already aware of the issues with the MAX and the 787 RR engine issues. Your question, however, is poorly worded. "One of the largest markets in the world" but doesn't say which market? Are you talking about NYC-Europe, if so, they're still in "that market" and doing quite well as they are continuing to expand, as I've stated above. If however, you're insinuating that airlines that discontinue flights that are unprofitable should be considered an "embarrassment of themselves," then that would be just about every airline.


Geez I didn’t know Norwegian fanboys existed... There is no way with a straight face you can tell me that DY only served EWR because they couldn’t get into JFK. Airlines we’re adding flights to JFK the whole time DY was at EWR, they would have easily been able to acquire slots. EWR was profitable for DY and they would not have flown it if it wasn’t. Fares were continuously higher and loads better. JFK is very overrated and perhaps their idiotic decision to leave EWR originated from their poor management.

New York is one of the largest markets I was not signaling out any routes in particular. They operated a handful and now only fly way less than 60% of them. They are becoming irrelevant in NYC and will not last much longer anywhere.


LOADED QUESTIONS!!!! and very apparently so due to the poor wording/word choice!

I shall leave it to you to decide if an airline that has up to 10 transatlantic departures a day on 787s out of JFK is irrelevant.
Or else you are merely perorating the usual anti-DY policy like so many others on here.
 
Nicknuzzii
Topic Author
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:15 pm

I feel like a lot of you are deviating from the thread, it is mostly about how much they shrank from 2018 to now.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2562
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:17 pm

LHUSA wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
If you look thru a.net Norwegian wouldn't make it to the end of 2016. Lots of Norwegian haters on here. To say they failed I'm NYC is a joke. They have up to ten flights a day next summer LOL. They could never have known about all the 787 engine issues and 737 max issues. They had to adjust.


People can ask questions without being haters. And that speculation didn't arise out of thin air; their financials are atrocious quarter after quarter. Just recently they had to put up their Gatwick slots as collateral simply to postpone payment on $380 million in unsecured bonds. Not a great sign.

.



....Still. I'd call it hate. Or else some people on here (mostly from the US it seems...) cannot get to grasps that DY has poor financial results and STILL dares to keep FLYING!!!!!. It apparently makes them lose sleep over it. Having international competition from an airline that dares to post atrocious quarters! Seems inconceivable I know in a society that holds its breath each single time a wall street penguin sneezes.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7773
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:33 pm

oldannyboy wrote:

....Still. I'd call it hate. Or else some people on here (mostly from the US it seems...) cannot get to grasps that DY has poor financial results and STILL dares to keep FLYING!!!!!.


Daring? I'll dare to lose somebody else's money (in this case, DY shareholders and lenders) all day long. This is flailing. The question 'Why didn't DY keep flying from 3 NYC airports?' is so basic it answers itself. Look at the frequency and destination count split across three airports.

People here complain about Frontier's dart board route planning but the carrier generates operating income. https://www.transtats.bts.gov/carriers.asp?pn=1 When DY does that on a consistent basis we can say they have a successful business model.
 
User avatar
Pudelhund
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:43 pm

SWF is not a “NYC airport”. PHL is closer to being a “NYC airport” than SWF is, especially if you consider that airport has a rail connection that brings you to Manhattan.
 
Nicknuzzii
Topic Author
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:54 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
SWF is not a “NYC airport”. PHL is closer to being a “NYC airport” than SWF is, especially if you consider that airport has a rail connection that brings you to Manhattan.


Yep because the city of Newburgh could support transatlantic service... the only people who flew via SWF were originating or terminating in NYC.
 
Nicknuzzii
Topic Author
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:55 pm

Also please take note that the definition of failing may be different for some but I don’t see cutting 2/3rds of a regions airports and 40%+ of the flights from the other airport as a success.
 
Rossiya747
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:56 am

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:59 pm

Pudelhund wrote:
SWF is not a “NYC airport”. PHL is closer to being a “NYC airport” than SWF is, especially if you consider that airport has a rail connection that brings you to Manhattan.


Clearly you don't live in the NY/NJ area. SWF is a NYC airport. It is run by the Port Authority of NY/NJ. And nobody in the NY Metro Area uses PHL unless they are in central Jersey.
223 319 320 321 332 333 346 388 734 737 738 739 38M 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 77W 788 789 208 CRJ2 E145 E190 UA DL AA WN AC CM 4O AV 2K FI DY D8 SK LH EI FR U2 IB OS LX BA VS BT PS MS SA SW QR EY HY AI 9W TG SQ MH AK D7 QZ BR NH CA QF MI LV/IB VY AL
 
jasoncrh
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:47 pm

If newark were profitable and successful they’d still be there. Airlines don’t just cut profitable flying.
 
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bluefltspecial
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:27 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:22 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
If newark were profitable and successful they’d still be there. Airlines don’t just cut profitable flying.


Right. Just ask United about their JFK transcon operation. :roll:

They certainly didn't consolidate their operation at EWR to cut costs and streamline their operation.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
User avatar
Pudelhund
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:06 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:26 pm

Rossiya747 wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:
SWF is not a “NYC airport”. PHL is closer to being a “NYC airport” than SWF is, especially if you consider that airport has a rail connection that brings you to Manhattan.


Clearly you don't live in the NY/NJ area. SWF is a NYC airport. It is run by the Port Authority of NY/NJ. And nobody in the NY Metro Area uses PHL unless they are in central Jersey.


I’m from Westchester County. Zero people consider SWF a “NYC airport”. My comparison is meant to illustrate that it is easier to get from PHL to Manhattan than it is from SWF, which might as well be in Canada.
 
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intotheair
Posts: 1881
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:38 pm

The whole airline is contracting. It’s not just an NYC problem. Norwegian has done exactly the same thing by cutting all OAK flying and moving what’s profitable over to SFO.

I’m not a DY fan but at least they’re making the difficult decisions now in order to have any chance of long term viability.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
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mooseofspruce
Posts: 113
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Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:29 pm

Norwegian: *adds lots of capacity*
Armchair CEOs: It's unsustainably fast expansion!

Norwegian: *cuts or right-sizes capacity to improve chances of survival*
Armchair CEOs: An embarrassment, in one of the largest markets in the world!

Norwegian: *is largest foreign-based airline operating out of New York City on passenger numbers per PANYNJ statistics*
Armchair CEOs: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Norwegian: *35 weekly JFK departures in S2018, 58 weekly JFK departures in S2019, 55 weekly JFK departures in S2020 so far*
Armchair CEOs: Tremendous cuts to JFK, only flying 60% of the flights since 2018!

Are your arguments really about Norwegian, or is this about propping NYC or even just EWR with using SWF and JFK as tokenism, where changes simply can't stand to "one of the largest markets in the world", nevermind with an airline that already has a lot to deal with? :scratchchin:

Nucknuzzii wrote:
There is no way with a straight face you can tell me that DY only served EWR because they couldn’t get into JFK. Airlines we’re adding flights to JFK the whole time DY was at EWR, they would have easily been able to acquire slots.

Except it's not just about finding slots, but finding them for specifically between 17:30 and 00:30 at T1, which is easier said than done. Their flights operate arrive and depart predominantly within those hours with exception to a handful of lunchtime departure times for LGW/ATH barely enough for daily departures, and two weekly morning slots for CDG on top of the daily late evening flight.
I saw a flock of Moosen! Many much moosen! Out in the woods, in the wood-es, in the woodsen!
 
Rossiya747
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:56 am

Re: What made Norwegian fail in NY?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:53 am

Pudelhund wrote:
Rossiya747 wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:
SWF is not a “NYC airport”. PHL is closer to being a “NYC airport” than SWF is, especially if you consider that airport has a rail connection that brings you to Manhattan.


Clearly you don't live in the NY/NJ area. SWF is a NYC airport. It is run by the Port Authority of NY/NJ. And nobody in the NY Metro Area uses PHL unless they are in central Jersey.


I’m from Westchester County. Zero people consider SWF a “NYC airport”. My comparison is meant to illustrate that it is easier to get from PHL to Manhattan than it is from SWF, which might as well be in Canada.


Most people who used the SWF-DUB Norwegian Service were from the New York general area. It wasn't just used by people in Westchester County. The only people in the NY area who use PHL are either AA members or they found cheap flights or they have too much time. Back when there was the Norwegian service, Norwegian chartered a bus for passengers that would take them straight to Manhattan.

Also, people in Philadelphia won't call any of the NY area airports Philly airports. The only airline I know that has bus services from Philly to the NY airports is EVA.
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