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cedarjet
Posts: 8804
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

Re: Why there are no morning flights from US West Coast to Europe?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:31 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
KLM AMS - SFO 09.50 - 11.45
KLM AMS - LAX 09.50 - 11.55
Delta AMS - SEA 09.55 - 11.06
Delta AMS - PDX 10.00 - 11.30

With a nine hour time difference you arrive only 30 minutes after departure, well before midday.

I’ve taken the SFO that lands before midday, love it. Incredible productivity for a human to wake up in Europe and be in California before midday.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Bhoy
Posts: 548
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Re: Why there are no morning flights from US West Coast to Europe?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:01 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
That would probably only work, high season, not daily, and exclusively by UA from SFO to Star Alliance hubs already flown with afternoon departures.
Example SFO-FRA and SFO-MUC with arrivals in Germany 0600-0700h.
Regarding to London, unless UA could get LHR slots between 0600-0700h, a SFO-LHR before noon departure is out of the question; however, if UA choses to fly to either LGW or STN, then 0500-0600h arrivals for UA morning service to LON flights might be possible.

Strictly speaking, UA already have some of those arrival slots at LHR - looking at tomorrow morning (Jan 2), UA958 is scheduled at 5:55 from ORD, UA918 at 6:40 from IAD, UA14 at 6:55 from EWR, UA880 at 7:25 from IAH, UA931 at 7:55 from ORD, UA27 at 8:25 from DEN, UA16 at 9:10 from EWR are all scheduled to arrive before UA901 at 9:40 from SFO. If there was really a demand for an early flight from the West Coast, I’m sure one of the two pre-8am arrivals from ORD could be retimed for the 9:40 arrival slot?
 
yyzmdw
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:40 am

Re: Why there are no morning flights from US West Coast to Europe?

Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:00 am

All of the SYD - LAX nonstops leave just before noon. 13-14 hr flight time has them landing in LA at midnight to 1am australia time, setting up a long day from 6am onwards in California. If this timing works for these transpac flights, what would make a similar timing and arrival time/jetlag problem for a West coast -- europe flight different?
 
airxliban
Posts: 4307
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Re: Why there are no morning flights from US West Coast to Europe?

Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:08 am

EK770 wrote:
DL has a midday flight from LAX to CDG leaving at 12.20, arriving 8.15


I took this flight last week in Delta One and really did not like it. Can't do anything at LAX during the morning because you need to leave for the airport. Then you get in the air and by the time you feel tired enough to sleep it's time to land and then you have the entire day in Europe...really not sure what DL was thinking when they scheduled this relatively new flight and then upgauged to the 777. I guess they didn't want to compete with the AF flight that leaves at 15:30 or the AF that leaves at 21:00 and perhaps didn't have the aircraft availability or good connections for something in the middle like 17:45.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
APYu
Posts: 515
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

Re: Why there are no morning flights from US West Coast to Europe?

Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:17 am

readytotaxi wrote:
In reverse there are no early morning departures to the west coast, first one is around 09:30 arriving 1pm.


Not true. Norwegian this summer had a 6am to LAX. Next year though it’s moved a little to 0800 departure (1130 arrival)
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MikeMidd2001
Posts: 17
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Re: Why there are no morning flights from US West Coast to Europe?

Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:13 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
par13del wrote:
Leisure traveller's arriving in London prior to noon will not be able to checkin to a hotel after such a long flight, some hotels even have 3pm checkin

What about the many, many daily flights from the U.S. east coast that arrive in Europe between 06.00 am and 10.00 am? Why would arriving early in the morning be a problem for a west coast flight, but not for an east coast flight?


Who is saying it isn't a problem?

I'm regularly going between New York, Washington, Boston, Chicago, etc., and London. It's worse the further northeast you go because the flight is shorter, so less sleep. But the benefit is that it's only a five hour time difference in terms of your body clock, as opposed to eight, which I do think makes a difference when it comes to adjusting (or just powering through). Things are out of whack but it doesn't feel like the opposite side of 24 hours.

There's also no real alternative other than daytime flights, which are practical only if you're going from major city to major city. Try connecting from anywhere in the northeast to one of the daytime Boston, New York or Philadelphia flights and you're starting on a 5:30am / 6am flight at your home airport.
 
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GCT64
Posts: 1839
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Re: Why there are no morning flights from US West Coast to Europe?

Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:48 pm

AA747123 wrote:
I actually prefer a later arrival into Europe. I typically will fly LAX-:LHR-FRA, and arrive FRA in the early evening around 1800 or so. Go out for dinner, a few beers. Full night sleep then good to go the next day.


I would find that much better. The problem with, say, a 6pm departure out of LAX or SFO is that you really only get a half day's work done before leaving for the airport if you are anywhere other than close to the airport due to the road traffic. From Orange County, say, I can only schedule meetings until about 1pm or so, if I definitely want to make it to LAX, hand the rental car back and get to the terminal for 4pm check-in.

To give myself a full days work in CA before heading home (to London), I have taken red-eyes to the East Coast and then day time flights to LHR arriving 7:30-9pm at LHR. This seems to give me more efficient working and less jetlag.
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 1106
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Why there are no morning flights from US West Coast to Europe?

Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:24 pm

airxliban wrote:

I took this flight last week in Delta One and really did not like it. Can't do anything at LAX during the morning because you need to leave for the airport. Then you get in the air and by the time you feel tired enough to sleep it's time to land and then you have the entire day in Europe...really not sure what DL was thinking when they scheduled this relatively new flight and then upgauged to the 777. I guess they didn't want to compete with the AF flight that leaves at 15:30 or the AF that leaves at 21:00 and perhaps didn't have the aircraft availability or good connections for something in the middle like 17:45.

DL switched the LAX-CDG route from the A330 to the B777 because the A330s do not have the Premium Select cabin and the 777 probably makes more money for them with the relatively large Comfort+ section as well.
DL is not competing with AF since they have a JV, they share revenues. AF also operates a third flight on the route in the busy summer season that leaves LAX around 6:30 PM. So what is the point of DL scheduling their flight to leave LAX at 5:45 PM?
The current 12:20 PM departure from LAX at least allows connections to the India flights or other cities east of Europe. The AF flights leaving later in the day do not connect to those flights.
 
airxliban
Posts: 4307
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

Re: Why there are no morning flights from US West Coast to Europe?

Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:38 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
airxliban wrote:

I took this flight last week in Delta One and really did not like it. Can't do anything at LAX during the morning because you need to leave for the airport. Then you get in the air and by the time you feel tired enough to sleep it's time to land and then you have the entire day in Europe...really not sure what DL was thinking when they scheduled this relatively new flight and then upgauged to the 777. I guess they didn't want to compete with the AF flight that leaves at 15:30 or the AF that leaves at 21:00 and perhaps didn't have the aircraft availability or good connections for something in the middle like 17:45.

DL switched the LAX-CDG route from the A330 to the B777 because the A330s do not have the Premium Select cabin and the 777 probably makes more money for them with the relatively large Comfort+ section as well.
DL is not competing with AF since they have a JV, they share revenues. AF also operates a third flight on the route in the busy summer season that leaves LAX around 6:30 PM. So what is the point of DL scheduling their flight to leave LAX at 5:45 PM?
The current 12:20 PM departure from LAX at least allows connections to the India flights or other cities east of Europe. The AF flights leaving later in the day do not connect to those flights.


Thanks for the reply and the explanation, I appreciate it.

Regarding competing with the AF flight, I didn't mean competing in a sense of for money, I just meant timing the flight so that it arrives into a different bank at CDG and therefore offering different or better connections than the earlier AF departure or the later one... Anyway, based on your expalantion, it sounds like the 12:20pm departure is in fact the best way to do this. Just sucks for those of us not straying too far from CDG and wanting to sleep :). Guess I could have chosen a different flight.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
richierich
Moderator
Posts: 3629
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

Re: Why there are no morning flights from US West Coast to Europe?

Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:26 pm

cedarjet wrote:

The best timings for west coast to Europe are to leave as late as possible (BA’s 268 being a star pupil, dep 2100 arr 1600+1) or route via the east coast with a short red eye eg LAX EWR connecting to a day tripper across the pond, land at 2000 and home to bed. Landing at dawn, and your body clock thinks it’s midnight (LA time) is a recipe for real health and emotional problems.


Besides the 5-hour versus 8-hour time difference, how is what you said any different for East Coast to Europe redeyes? I've left JFK at 6PM and arrived in the UK well before 6AM (body thinks it should be about 1AM) and then it is off for a full day of work/play. Nothing like going through UK Customs and trying to drive on the other side of the road and concentrate when your body thinks you should be in the middle of your REM cycle. It's not easy but one can power through it.
None shall pass!!!!

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