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factsonly
Posts: 2963
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:54 pm

SAS again on the move to Africa or to Latin America or .....?

- SK7030 ARN 15.25 - BJL 20.39 Airbus A330-343 LN-RKS

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ln-rks
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:21 pm

Prior to the virus, did Swedavia have plans with what to do with T3 and the newer pier at T5 ?
While T2, T4 and the older area of T5 always seemed very heavily used, both T3 and the newer pier at T5 always seemed very quiet for much of the day

I'm guessing that using sone gates costs an airline more than other gates... hence the reason why T4 and the older part of T5 felt so cramped with hordes of people

Is it worthwhile keeping all this gate space open, or was there a plan to try to cut some costs, especially with Greta making herself heard ?
 
Bostrom
Posts: 977
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 7:31 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Prior to the virus, did Swedavia have plans with what to do with T3 and the newer pier at T5 ?
While T2, T4 and the older area of T5 always seemed very heavily used, both T3 and the newer pier at T5 always seemed very quiet for much of the day

I'm guessing that using sone gates costs an airline more than other gates... hence the reason why T4 and the older part of T5 felt so cramped with hordes of people

Is it worthwhile keeping all this gate space open, or was there a plan to try to cut some costs, especially with Greta making herself heard ?


The new pier at T5, pier F, is not as quiet as you might think. Remember that the pier has two levels, one Schengen and one non-Schengen and that the gates serve both levels.

Regarding T3, there have been talks about merging it with T4 in some way or T2+T3+T4 to create a new Terminal south. But nothing has been decided as far as I know.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4086
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 4:17 am

Have SK and DY received aid already from their governments? I remember Norway saying it will provide a loan for Norwegian.
 
Oykie
Posts: 1962
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:00 am

Blerg wrote:
Have SK and DY received aid already from their governments? I remember Norway saying it will provide a loan for Norwegian.


Norwegian has received the first part of the aid. The second and third part of the aid is really difficult for Norwegian to get and they need to negotiate with creditors to qualify. This is the short version
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
RexBanner
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:37 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:10 am

Isn’t the aid package only for 3 Billion Krona? That’s not exactly going to last them a long time .
 
Blerg
Posts: 4086
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:05 pm

Oykie wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Have SK and DY received aid already from their governments? I remember Norway saying it will provide a loan for Norwegian.


Norwegian has received the first part of the aid. The second and third part of the aid is really difficult for Norwegian to get and they need to negotiate with creditors to qualify. This is the short version


I don't get it, wasn't the aid a loan from the government? Why do they need to negotiate with creditors?
 
nordify
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:17 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:10 pm

Blerg wrote:
Oykie wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Have SK and DY received aid already from their governments? I remember Norway saying it will provide a loan for Norwegian.


Norwegian has received the first part of the aid. The second and third part of the aid is really difficult for Norwegian to get and they need to negotiate with creditors to qualify. This is the short version


I don't get it, wasn't the aid a loan from the government? Why do they need to negotiate with creditors?


Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the government provided a percentage of a loan with the condition that investors/creditors would provide the rest of the loan.
If Norwegian is unable to secure financing from investors etc., they government loan will not be granted.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4086
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:54 am

nordify wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Oykie wrote:

Norwegian has received the first part of the aid. The second and third part of the aid is really difficult for Norwegian to get and they need to negotiate with creditors to qualify. This is the short version


I don't get it, wasn't the aid a loan from the government? Why do they need to negotiate with creditors?


Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the government provided a percentage of a loan with the condition that investors/creditors would provide the rest of the loan.
If Norwegian is unable to secure financing from investors etc., they government loan will not be granted.


Wow that doesn't sound like great help especially since the government knows in what shape and state Norwegian is right now. Will be interesting to see what becomes of them and if they manage to secure funding. I wonder if they have any free assets left.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 977
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:20 am

Blerg wrote:
Wow that doesn't sound like great help especially since the government knows in what shape and state Norwegian is right now. Will be interesting to see what becomes of them and if they manage to secure funding. I wonder if they have any free assets left.


Those conditions are probably there exactly because the goverment knows shape and state Norwegian is in. They are probably not interested in spending billions on saving a number of loss making long haul routes to London, Barcelona and Rome. Just to have the company go bankrupt anyway 4 months later.
 
ilari
Topic Author
Posts: 221
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:48 am

BT will restart service as soon as they can.

http://www.lentoposti.fi/uutiset/airbal ... el_avoinna (Link in Finnish)
 
Someone83
Posts: 4864
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:24 am

Norwegian just declared their Swedish and Danish cabin crew and pilot companies bankrupt. And the contract with OSM regarding crew has been cancelled

Note that Norwegian Air Sweden and its Swedish AOC is not part of this
 
Blerg
Posts: 4086
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:43 am

Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian just declared their Swedish and Danish cabin crew and pilot companies bankrupt. And the contract with OSM regarding crew has been cancelled

Note that Norwegian Air Sweden and its Swedish AOC is not part of this


So what does this mean? Will they just use other crew for these two markets?
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4484
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:59 am

Blerg wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian just declared their Swedish and Danish cabin crew and pilot companies bankrupt. And the contract with OSM regarding crew has been cancelled

Note that Norwegian Air Sweden and its Swedish AOC is not part of this


So what does this mean? Will they just use other crew for these two markets?


I guess they will just wait and see. If they ever need them again, they will offer new employment.
 
MareBorealis
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:04 pm

It looks SAS are not returning to HKG after the curret crisis.

Source in Danish: https://finalcall.travel/da/sas-dropper ... ong-ruten/
 
Bostrom
Posts: 977
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:32 pm

MareBorealis wrote:
It looks SAS are not returning to HKG after the curret crisis.

Source in Danish: https://finalcall.travel/da/sas-dropper ... ong-ruten/


I'm not surprised. Demand to Hong Kong must have fallen due to the protests.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:01 pm

In 2018, Nextjet collapsed
Earlier this month, BRA laid off almost all its staff and asked for permission to restructure
Norwegian looks to be laying off all staff at its Swedish crewing company - looks like they will be flying just routes where either one or both airports are in Norway

For a country spread over a large geographical area, this presents a bit of a problem for Sweden. Trains are great on the Malmo-Gothenburg-Stockholm corridor, but not so great elsewhere. Apart from SAS, it seems the only airline on non-PSO routes is the tiny Air Leap

Any thoughts as to what the Swedish could or should do about this ?
 
kanye
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:32 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:32 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2018, Nextjet collapsed
Earlier this month, BRA laid off almost all its staff and asked for permission to restructure
Norwegian looks to be laying off all staff at its Swedish crewing company - looks like they will be flying just routes where either one or both airports are in Norway

For a country spread over a large geographical area, this presents a bit of a problem for Sweden. Trains are great on the Malmo-Gothenburg-Stockholm corridor, but not so great elsewhere. Apart from SAS, it seems the only airline on non-PSO routes is the tiny Air Leap

Any thoughts as to what the Swedish could or should do about this ?




As long as SAS is flying i don't see any problem. Domestic flying is predicted to recover first and SAS has a lot of capacity to incrase this and take a market share from Norwegian and BRA.
Only problem for customers could be more expensive tickets. On the other hand that would be healthy considering BRA survived a couple of weeks and Norwegian has mostly expanded by building up huge debts.
Not healthy for any industry.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4086
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:55 pm

kanye wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2018, Nextjet collapsed
Earlier this month, BRA laid off almost all its staff and asked for permission to restructure
Norwegian looks to be laying off all staff at its Swedish crewing company - looks like they will be flying just routes where either one or both airports are in Norway

For a country spread over a large geographical area, this presents a bit of a problem for Sweden. Trains are great on the Malmo-Gothenburg-Stockholm corridor, but not so great elsewhere. Apart from SAS, it seems the only airline on non-PSO routes is the tiny Air Leap

Any thoughts as to what the Swedish could or should do about this ?




As long as SAS is flying i don't see any problem. Domestic flying is predicted to recover first and SAS has a lot of capacity to incrase this and take a market share from Norwegian and BRA.
Only problem for customers could be more expensive tickets. On the other hand that would be healthy considering BRA survived a couple of weeks and Norwegian has mostly expanded by building up huge debts.
Not healthy for any industry.


But isn't recovery a relative term when it comes to doemstic travel in Sweden? I mean this particular market started suffering long before corona.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 866
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:19 pm

I don't think it is in the interests of the residents of Sweden if one airline has a near monopoly on domestic long distance transport... there needs to be a competitor on a significant number of routes which can keep SAS honest
 
EFHK
Posts: 423
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:52 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:25 pm

kanye wrote:
On the other hand that would be healthy considering BRA survived a couple of weeks and Norwegian has mostly expanded by building up huge debts.
Not healthy for any industry.


If both BRA and Norwegian go definitively under, I can still see a couple of strong opportunities opening up: namely, domestic flying in Norway & Bromma. I suspect that SAS could not immediately fulfill all the demand for Norway, and that there would still be quite some people preferring Bromma over Arlanda (provided that it stays open).

Now we get to the daydream part.

It would be so cool to see AY, DAT, and Widerøe (+potentially a restructured BRA) combining their forces and creating an actual Nordic regional airline to provide the main competition for SAS. By all logic, there should be quite some workforce available after the crisis, plus also low-priced regional aircraft (e.g. E-190s, BRA's AT7s) that could be used to expand to key domestic routes in Norway, as well as BMA. BMA could even see some new destinations in Northern Sweden, and in neighboring countries.

I believe it could be viable.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:39 pm

Wideroe and SAS have a strong commercial relationship - one does the short distance flying between small towns and the major airports, the other carries people between major airports and to cities outside Norway. Break this relationship, and you break much of the connectivity that exists in the Norwegian transport infrastructure. I do not believe Wideroe is going to start flying B737 or A320 aircraft between Oslo and Trondheim or Tromso in competition with SAS any time soon
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4484
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:02 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2018, Nextjet collapsed
Earlier this month, BRA laid off almost all its staff and asked for permission to restructure
Norwegian looks to be laying off all staff at its Swedish crewing company - looks like they will be flying just routes where either one or both airports are in Norway

For a country spread over a large geographical area, this presents a bit of a problem for Sweden. Trains are great on the Malmo-Gothenburg-Stockholm corridor, but not so great elsewhere. Apart from SAS, it seems the only airline on non-PSO routes is the tiny Air Leap

Any thoughts as to what the Swedish could or should do about this ?


Establish PSO routes and admit that domestic travel to some destinations in inherently going to be a rip-off until railways get built up.

It isn't completely unlike New Zealand. Big, sparsely populated country with only one airline charging horrendous prices. Works down there.
 
ARNPEK
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:26 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:12 pm

If one looks at domestic aviation history there has always been competition in Sweden. IF both BRA and Norwegian seize operations there is likely to be another coming in. There is hardware and skilled staff available. The only thing that would be needed is investors...
 
kanye
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:32 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:18 pm

Blerg wrote:
kanye wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2018, Nextjet collapsed
Earlier this month, BRA laid off almost all its staff and asked for permission to restructure
Norwegian looks to be laying off all staff at its Swedish crewing company - looks like they will be flying just routes where either one or both airports are in Norway

For a country spread over a large geographical area, this presents a bit of a problem for Sweden. Trains are great on the Malmo-Gothenburg-Stockholm corridor, but not so great elsewhere. Apart from SAS, it seems the only airline on non-PSO routes is the tiny Air Leap

Any thoughts as to what the Swedish could or should do about this ?




As long as SAS is flying i don't see any problem. Domestic flying is predicted to recover first and SAS has a lot of capacity to incrase this and take a market share from Norwegian and BRA.
Only problem for customers could be more expensive tickets. On the other hand that would be healthy considering BRA survived a couple of weeks and Norwegian has mostly expanded by building up huge debts.
Not healthy for any industry.


But isn't recovery a relative term when it comes to doemstic travel in Sweden? I mean this particular market started suffering long before corona.



Yes, but domestic routes like Stockholm - Luleå or Umeå had maybe around 10-15 daily flights in each direction and are now down to 1 each.
I don’t think this daily flight will be enough soon.
 
User avatar
SASViking
Posts: 442
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:24 pm

EFHK wrote:
kanye wrote:
On the other hand that would be healthy considering BRA survived a couple of weeks and Norwegian has mostly expanded by building up huge debts.
Not healthy for any industry.


If both BRA and Norwegian go definitively under, I can still see a couple of strong opportunities opening up: namely, domestic flying in Norway & Bromma. I suspect that SAS could not immediately fulfill all the demand for Norway, and that there would still be quite some people preferring Bromma over Arlanda (provided that it stays open).

Now we get to the daydream part.

It would be so cool to see AY, DAT, and Widerøe (+potentially a restructured BRA) combining their forces and creating an actual Nordic regional airline to provide the main competition for SAS. By all logic, there should be quite some workforce available after the crisis, plus also low-priced regional aircraft (e.g. E-190s, BRA's AT7s) that could be used to expand to key domestic routes in Norway, as well as BMA. BMA could even see some new destinations in Northern Sweden, and in neighboring countries.

I believe it could be viable.

I agree. A combined Nordic regional airline would be great, and now that DAT owns 60% of NoRRA I think it's even more realistic
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
Bostrom
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Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:31 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I don't think it is in the interests of the residents of Sweden if one airline has a near monopoly on domestic long distance transport... there needs to be a competitor on a significant number of routes which can keep SAS honest


There is a very large competitor to SAS when it comes to domestic transport.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 866
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:58 pm

Travelling by train takes sonewhat longer than by air. Yes, a competitor, but perhaps not always as effective a competitor !
 
EFHK
Posts: 423
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:52 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:13 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Wideroe and SAS have a strong commercial relationship - one does the short distance flying between small towns and the major airports, the other carries people between major airports and to cities outside Norway. Break this relationship, and you break much of the connectivity that exists in the Norwegian transport infrastructure. I do not believe Wideroe is going to start flying B737 or A320 aircraft between Oslo and Trondheim or Tromso in competition with SAS any time soon


Right now this is true.

However.

SAS sold 80% of its stake in WF in 2013, and the rest 20% in 2016. What has happened since then is that WF has ordered the E2s (albeit only 3 for now) and begun flying them on routes such as TOS-BGO & TOS-BOO, routes that are also flown by SK, but not DY.

This could imply that WF is willing to actually compete with SK, but has deemed it to be too risky to compete against both DY & SK.

With DY gone, routes such as OSL-TOS, OSL-TRD, OSL-BGO, OSL-BOO would suddenly become much more attractive to fly at your own risk.

And what happens to connectivity in cases when one wants to fly e.g. OSL-(TOS)-HFT? If WF is the only one flying TOS-HFT, would it be more likely to pick WF or SK for the OSL-TOS segment?

I'd call that competitive advantage.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 977
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:37 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Travelling by train takes sonewhat longer than by air. Yes, a competitor, but perhaps not always as effective a competitor !


In some cases yes, in other cases the train is faster. And even if the train takes longer, if the price difference is big some people will gladly spend a few hours extra on a train.
 
YIMBY
Posts: 723
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:21 am

ARNPEK wrote:
If one looks at domestic aviation history there has always been competition in Sweden. IF both BRA and Norwegian seize operations there is likely to be another coming in. There is hardware and skilled staff available. The only thing that would be needed is investors...


I agree, there will be no flight vacuum in Sweden after corona, unless set by new policies.

Sweden is so far open for all EU operators to enter the markets. And there is huge overcapacity and will be, even if most small and some big airlines would go belly up. If there is demand, there will be supply. I would also expect major organizational and ownership arrangements among the survivors. So I give no guess what is the name of the future competitor.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4864
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:35 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Wideroe and SAS have a strong commercial relationship - one does the short distance flying between small towns and the major airports, the other carries people between major airports and to cities outside Norway. Break this relationship, and you break much of the connectivity that exists in the Norwegian transport infrastructure. I do not believe Wideroe is going to start flying B737 or A320 aircraft between Oslo and Trondheim or Tromso in competition with SAS any time soon


That commercial relationship is weaker than in used to be. While they still cooperate, and will probably "always" do this to some extent, Widerøe is a much more independent airline now, and as seen during the last few year have gone into cooperations through codeshares with competitors to SAS like KLM, Air France and Finnair
 
HotelWhiskey
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:16 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:57 pm

Cityjet Oy, the finnish subsidiary of Cityjet that is flying on behalf of SAS, has entered bankruptcy.
Around 100 pilots might loose their jobs. In November 2019 Cityjet Oy already reduced their staff by 80%.

The danish subsidiary CityJet A/S however, continues operations for now
Source in finnish
 
User avatar
QuawerAir
Posts: 1053
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:15 pm

Once the COVID-19 crisis is "over" which routes (European and intercontinental) do you think won't exist anymore out of Nordics? And which routes will see notable reductions in weekly frequencies? It may be a little too early to say at this point but I'd like to hear your thoughts and speculations.

In general flights will surely be reduced to worst pandemic regions (especially leisure destinations) such as Italy and Spain. I'm not too sure about China though as Chinese carriers (particularly those owned by the Chinese government) may be unwilling to cut flights. If Norwegian collapsed, would it leave several currently operated routes unserved.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
fessor
Posts: 165
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:11 pm

QuawerAir wrote:
Once the COVID-19 crisis is "over" which routes (European and intercontinental) do you think won't exist anymore out of Nordics? And which routes will see notable reductions in weekly frequencies? It may be a little too early to say at this point but I'd like to hear your thoughts and speculations.

In general flights will surely be reduced to worst pandemic regions (especially leisure destinations) such as Italy and Spain. I'm not too sure about China though as Chinese carriers (particularly those owned by the Chinese government) may be unwilling to cut flights. If Norwegian collapsed, would it leave several currently operated routes unserved.



My guess is that ARN will loose Singapore, SQ will put all Eggs in CPH.
TG will properly start all OSL, CPH and ARN with less than Daily maybe even OSL will be started later than the other 2.
CPH have lost HKG
Secondary airports will properly loose some weakly flights to other hubs like AMS and FRA.
EK and QR will try take marketshares
TK will at least in the beginning focus onthe biggest airports
Norwegian will most likely trim some of their destinations in Spain and Italy.
But also we can expect a fight between IAG, AFKLM and Lufthansa family to fight for the scandinavian customers
 
Blerg
Posts: 4086
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:21 pm

So is it safe to assume Norwegian will not be flying from Denmark and Sweden in the future if they make it? I am referring to the fact they liquidated their employment companies there.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4864
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 4:58 am

Blerg wrote:
So is it safe to assume Norwegian will not be flying from Denmark and Sweden in the future if they make it? I am referring to the fact they liquidated their employment companies there.


I do think it hard to tell, if they survive off course. The liquidation of these companies has more to do to save cash in the short term
 
Blerg
Posts: 4086
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:18 am

HotelWhiskey wrote:
Cityjet Oy, the finnish subsidiary of Cityjet that is flying on behalf of SAS, has entered bankruptcy.
Around 100 pilots might loose their jobs. In November 2019 Cityjet Oy already reduced their staff by 80%.

The danish subsidiary CityJet A/S however, continues operations for now
Source in finnish


I read online that it's both the Swedish and Finnish subsidiary that went into bankruptcy, they seem to be operating a total of 23 CRJ-900 aircraft. I wonder if SK might take them or will they just let them go as they don't need the capacity right now.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4086
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 5:20 am

Someone83 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So is it safe to assume Norwegian will not be flying from Denmark and Sweden in the future if they make it? I am referring to the fact they liquidated their employment companies there.


I do think it hard to tell, if they survive off course. The liquidation of these companies has more to do to save cash in the short term


True, I mean DY knows that if they make it then they can just hire them back. I highly doubt anyone will be hiring anytime soon.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4484
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:22 am

Sun Air is starting a twice daily Billund - Brussels flight from September. This route should have a bunch of reliable frequent flyers, so fingers crossed that they can make it work.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12974
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:43 am

VSMUT wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
In 2018, Nextjet collapsed
Earlier this month, BRA laid off almost all its staff and asked for permission to restructure
Norwegian looks to be laying off all staff at its Swedish crewing company - looks like they will be flying just routes where either one or both airports are in Norway

For a country spread over a large geographical area, this presents a bit of a problem for Sweden. Trains are great on the Malmo-Gothenburg-Stockholm corridor, but not so great elsewhere. Apart from SAS, it seems the only airline on non-PSO routes is the tiny Air Leap

Any thoughts as to what the Swedish could or should do about this ?


Establish PSO routes and admit that domestic travel to some destinations in inherently going to be a rip-off until railways get built up.

It isn't completely unlike New Zealand. Big, sparsely populated country with only one airline charging horrendous prices. Works down there.


The difference between NZ and Norway is the Norwegian govt subsidises many of the regional routes whereas in NZ we don't, regional passengers have to pay the full cost of the service.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:50 am

Blerg wrote:
HotelWhiskey wrote:
Cityjet Oy, the finnish subsidiary of Cityjet that is flying on behalf of SAS, has entered bankruptcy.
Around 100 pilots might loose their jobs. In November 2019 Cityjet Oy already reduced their staff by 80%.

The danish subsidiary CityJet A/S however, continues operations for now
Source in finnish


I read online that it's both the Swedish and Finnish subsidiary that went into bankruptcy, they seem to be operating a total of 23 CRJ-900 aircraft. I wonder if SK might take them or will they just let them go as they don't need the capacity right now.

SAS is now (well was..) relying on Regional Jet (from Estonia) which provided CRJ's and a couple of ATR.
 
HotelWhiskey
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:16 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:07 am

Blerg wrote:
HotelWhiskey wrote:
Cityjet Oy, the finnish subsidiary of Cityjet that is flying on behalf of SAS, has entered bankruptcy.
Around 100 pilots might loose their jobs. In November 2019 Cityjet Oy already reduced their staff by 80%.

The danish subsidiary CityJet A/S however, continues operations for now
Source in finnish


I read online that it's both the Swedish and Finnish subsidiary that went into bankruptcy, they seem to be operating a total of 23 CRJ-900 aircraft. I wonder if SK might take them or will they just let them go as they don't need the capacity right now.

The lentoposti article mentions that SAS is not happy with the bankruptcy of Cityjet Oy and expects the co-operation to continue.
Cityjet Oy reduced their staff by 80% already back in November 2019. I personally know some staff that had the oppurtunity to move to the CPH base back then.
But that doesn't mean that the situation is the same now
 
Blerg
Posts: 4086
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:10 am

HotelWhiskey wrote:
Blerg wrote:
HotelWhiskey wrote:
Cityjet Oy, the finnish subsidiary of Cityjet that is flying on behalf of SAS, has entered bankruptcy.
Around 100 pilots might loose their jobs. In November 2019 Cityjet Oy already reduced their staff by 80%.

The danish subsidiary CityJet A/S however, continues operations for now
Source in finnish


I read online that it's both the Swedish and Finnish subsidiary that went into bankruptcy, they seem to be operating a total of 23 CRJ-900 aircraft. I wonder if SK might take them or will they just let them go as they don't need the capacity right now.

The lentoposti article mentions that SAS is not happy with the bankruptcy of Cityjet Oy and expects the co-operation to continue.
Cityjet Oy reduced their staff by 80% already back in November 2019. I personally know some staff that had the oppurtunity to move to the CPH base back then.
But that doesn't mean that the situation is the same now


But how do we interpret them not being happy about the Cityjet situation? Does it mean they might take them over or provide funding for them to remain operational.... them being unhappy doesn't really give us a lot of information.

By the way, what routes did they operate for them from Finland? Was it just to Denmark and Sweden or were there other ones as well?
 
HotelWhiskey
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:16 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:27 am

Blerg wrote:
HotelWhiskey wrote:
Blerg wrote:

I read online that it's both the Swedish and Finnish subsidiary that went into bankruptcy, they seem to be operating a total of 23 CRJ-900 aircraft. I wonder if SK might take them or will they just let them go as they don't need the capacity right now.

The lentoposti article mentions that SAS is not happy with the bankruptcy of Cityjet Oy and expects the co-operation to continue.
Cityjet Oy reduced their staff by 80% already back in November 2019. I personally know some staff that had the oppurtunity to move to the CPH base back then.
But that doesn't mean that the situation is the same now


But how do we interpret them not being happy about the Cityjet situation? Does it mean they might take them over or provide funding for them to remain operational.... them being unhappy doesn't really give us a lot of information.

By the way, what routes did they operate for them from Finland? Was it just to Denmark and Sweden or were there other ones as well?

I agree, a lot is left open for speculation.
They indeed only flew between HEL-ARN and HEL-CPH. The crews however also flew feeder flights in the nordics and europe.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4484
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:37 am

Kikko19 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
HotelWhiskey wrote:
Cityjet Oy, the finnish subsidiary of Cityjet that is flying on behalf of SAS, has entered bankruptcy.
Around 100 pilots might loose their jobs. In November 2019 Cityjet Oy already reduced their staff by 80%.

The danish subsidiary CityJet A/S however, continues operations for now
Source in finnish


I read online that it's both the Swedish and Finnish subsidiary that went into bankruptcy, they seem to be operating a total of 23 CRJ-900 aircraft. I wonder if SK might take them or will they just let them go as they don't need the capacity right now.

SAS is now (well was..) relying on Regional Jet (from Estonia) which provided CRJ's and a couple of ATR.


SAS primarily relies on CityJet to provide CRJ services with 23 aircraft, Nordica providing only 2 or 3 aircraft. Nordica's subsidiary Regional Jet provides all 8 of the ATRs.

Rumour from before the crisis is that SAS is looking to replace CityJet with Nordica completely.
 
axelesgg
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:37 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:01 am

VSMUT wrote:
It isn't completely unlike New Zealand. Big, sparsely populated country with only one airline charging horrendous prices. Works down there.


I see the similarities, but New Zealand doesn't have any Flag of Convenience countries nearby, like we have in the Nordics, when thinking of airlines flying domestic Sweden and intra Scandinavia with Estonian and Irish planes and contracts.
Fly Draganair
 
Blerg
Posts: 4086
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:01 am

So how many of those 23 aircraft were based in Finaland and how many in Sweden? What about Denmark? Who operated those there? SK?

Nordica will probably give a really good deal given that their agreement with LO is not going through.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:28 am

Blerg wrote:
So how many of those 23 aircraft were based in Finaland and how many in Sweden? What about Denmark? Who operated those there? SK?

Nordica will probably give a really good deal given that their agreement with LO is not going through.

yes, Estonian govt pushes to exit agreement with LOT and enter again (SAS created Estonian Air and then sold it before failure) an agreement with SK
https://news.err.ee/1080616/estonian-ai ... -state-aid
 
Blerg
Posts: 4086
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:31 am

Kikko19 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
So how many of those 23 aircraft were based in Finaland and how many in Sweden? What about Denmark? Who operated those there? SK?

Nordica will probably give a really good deal given that their agreement with LO is not going through.

yes, Estonian govt pushes to exit agreement with LOT and enter again (SAS created Estonian Air and then sold it before failure) an agreement with SK
https://news.err.ee/1080616/estonian-ai ... -state-aid


Interesting, I wonder what this might mean for Nordica. Would they merely operate routes out of TLL for SK or will they have some other routes towards Europe. I think it will also depend on what SK plans on doing with airBaltic and if they might attack them in TLL in order to push them out of Estonia.

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