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FredrikHAD
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:44 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:54 pm

Blerg wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/kristianstad_airport/pressreleases/nytt-flygbolag-skaaneflyg-3052314

Skaneflyg is a new proposed airline that seems to want to fly between Kristianstad and Stockholm
As far as I know it has neither aircraft nor AOC - ie just a wannabe airline. I'm rather sceptical about flying from Kristianstad given so many other failed or heavily subsidised attempts to fly from there

Anybody else have thoughts ?


The municipality has 85.000 inhabitants. Do they really need flights to Stockholm? Market seems to be rather small.

Sweden is an entire country of small "markets". People out there still need to get to Stockholm and to other "markets". The nearest airport that is considered "major" in Sweden is Malmö, and it will take you at least 1 1/2 hours to drive there in good conditions. Malmö in itself is only some 350 000 inhabitants and would be considered a very small "market" in the US and even central Europe I guess. The driver for flights from places like Kristianstad, Ronneby, Kalmar and Växjö is that it takes "forever" to go by train to Stockholm (minimum 4:24 hrs, Karlskrona/Ronneby is 5:30 to STO) and during winter, it can be downright dangerous or even impossible to get to a suitable train station along the main tracks, let alone travel by car all the way to Stockholm (~5:30 hrs). In winter the trains are having massive problems getting to get to their destinations. Lots of businesses in Stockholm are located north of the city, so connections from airports and train stations are very similar, but from opposing directions, which means Arlanda has an advantage due to less traffic. If you need go to Stockholm city, the train has an advantage of course. Does Kristianstad NEED a direct connection? Well, in the 1800's they went there by horse and wagon if they needed I assume, so it depends ;) Living in Halmstad I have the same dilemma as they do. Train means an overnight stay if I want to have time for more than a handshake in Stockholm before I return, and as handshakes are banned these days, I might as well skip that. By air I get to the office before my workmates that are stuck in traffic (unless they were smart enough to leave home at 6 am to beat the traffic). I can then hitch a ride with a colleague to Bromma at the end of the work day and be home in time for supper. Before Corona, I could even opt to take the late flight at 20:30-ish in order to have more time after office hours if need be. I even went to Kramfors on a 3 hour extended lunch meeting many years ago and was home at about 21:30 in Halmstad the same day I left home. That brings me to the other aspect. We don't only go to Stockholm, you know. If I need to go to Kiruna, Karlstad, Umeå or some other place we call a major city in this 1572 km long country, it gets kind of problematic if only "markets" with substantially more than 100k inhabitants are to have flights to Stockholm, as that would mean Göteborg and Malmö only!
When it comes to Kristianstad one may think that there are plenty of direct flights nearby, like Ronneby, Växjö and Malmö. Still, the convenience of flying directly and skipping the 2-2,5 hours (travel time + margin) extra time to get to the airport is rather precious.
 
Someone83
Posts: 5383
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:36 am

LN-RPR has left the SAS fleet, leaving 18 737-800s left

Boeing 737 -883 30468 668 LN-RPR SAS ferried 14-15dec20 OSL-KEF-BGR-MZJ on return to lessor
 
minilinde
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:33 am

Someone83 wrote:
LN-RPR has left the SAS fleet, leaving 18 737-800s left

Boeing 737 -883 30468 668 LN-RPR SAS ferried 14-15dec20 OSL-KEF-BGR-MZJ on return to lessor


It flew direct OSL-BGR
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
M564038
Posts: 651
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:17 pm

Compared with Malmø’s 350000, the miniature Norwegian town Trondheim’s(150000) route to Oslo was as of 2017 Europe’s 5th busiest route!
That is how weird the norwegian airline market is.

FredrikHAD wrote:
Blerg wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/kristianstad_airport/pressreleases/nytt-flygbolag-skaaneflyg-3052314

Skaneflyg is a new proposed airline that seems to want to fly between Kristianstad and Stockholm
As far as I know it has neither aircraft nor AOC - ie just a wannabe airline. I'm rather sceptical about flying from Kristianstad given so many other failed or heavily subsidised attempts to fly from there

Anybody else have thoughts ?


The municipality has 85.000 inhabitants. Do they really need flights to Stockholm? Market seems to be rather small.

Sweden is an entire country of small "markets". People out there still need to get to Stockholm and to other "markets". The nearest airport that is considered "major" in Sweden is Malmö, and it will take you at least 1 1/2 hours to drive there in good conditions. Malmö in itself is only some 350 000 inhabitants and would be considered a very small "market" in the US and even central Europe I guess. The driver for flights from places like Kristianstad, Ronneby, Kalmar and Växjö is that it takes "forever" to go by train to Stockholm (minimum 4:24 hrs, Karlskrona/Ronneby is 5:30 to STO) and during winter, it can be downright dangerous or even impossible to get to a suitable train station along the main tracks, let alone travel by car all the way to Stockholm (~5:30 hrs). In winter the trains are having massive problems getting to get to their destinations. Lots of businesses in Stockholm are located north of the city, so connections from airports and train stations are very similar, but from opposing directions, which means Arlanda has an advantage due to less traffic. If you need go to Stockholm city, the train has an advantage of course. Does Kristianstad NEED a direct connection? Well, in the 1800's they went there by horse and wagon if they needed I assume, so it depends ;) Living in Halmstad I have the same dilemma as they do. Train means an overnight stay if I want to have time for more than a handshake in Stockholm before I return, and as handshakes are banned these days, I might as well skip that. By air I get to the office before my workmates that are stuck in traffic (unless they were smart enough to leave home at 6 am to beat the traffic). I can then hitch a ride with a colleague to Bromma at the end of the work day and be home in time for supper. Before Corona, I could even opt to take the late flight at 20:30-ish in order to have more time after office hours if need be. I even went to Kramfors on a 3 hour extended lunch meeting many years ago and was home at about 21:30 in Halmstad the same day I left home. That brings me to the other aspect. We don't only go to Stockholm, you know. If I need to go to Kiruna, Karlstad, Umeå or some other place we call a major city in this 1572 km long country, it gets kind of problematic if only "markets" with substantially more than 100k inhabitants are to have flights to Stockholm, as that would mean Göteborg and Malmö only!
When it comes to Kristianstad one may think that there are plenty of direct flights nearby, like Ronneby, Växjö and Malmö. Still, the convenience of flying directly and skipping the 2-2,5 hours (travel time + margin) extra time to get to the airport is rather precious.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4988
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:57 am

M564038 wrote:
Compared with Malmø’s 350000, the miniature Norwegian town Trondheim’s(150000) route to Oslo was as of 2017 Europe’s 5th busiest route!
That is how weird the norwegian airline market is.

FredrikHAD wrote:
Blerg wrote:

The municipality has 85.000 inhabitants. Do they really need flights to Stockholm? Market seems to be rather small.

Sweden is an entire country of small "markets". People out there still need to get to Stockholm and to other "markets". The nearest airport that is considered "major" in Sweden is Malmö, and it will take you at least 1 1/2 hours to drive there in good conditions. Malmö in itself is only some 350 000 inhabitants and would be considered a very small "market" in the US and even central Europe I guess. The driver for flights from places like Kristianstad, Ronneby, Kalmar and Växjö is that it takes "forever" to go by train to Stockholm (minimum 4:24 hrs, Karlskrona/Ronneby is 5:30 to STO) and during winter, it can be downright dangerous or even impossible to get to a suitable train station along the main tracks, let alone travel by car all the way to Stockholm (~5:30 hrs). In winter the trains are having massive problems getting to get to their destinations. Lots of businesses in Stockholm are located north of the city, so connections from airports and train stations are very similar, but from opposing directions, which means Arlanda has an advantage due to less traffic. If you need go to Stockholm city, the train has an advantage of course. Does Kristianstad NEED a direct connection? Well, in the 1800's they went there by horse and wagon if they needed I assume, so it depends ;) Living in Halmstad I have the same dilemma as they do. Train means an overnight stay if I want to have time for more than a handshake in Stockholm before I return, and as handshakes are banned these days, I might as well skip that. By air I get to the office before my workmates that are stuck in traffic (unless they were smart enough to leave home at 6 am to beat the traffic). I can then hitch a ride with a colleague to Bromma at the end of the work day and be home in time for supper. Before Corona, I could even opt to take the late flight at 20:30-ish in order to have more time after office hours if need be. I even went to Kramfors on a 3 hour extended lunch meeting many years ago and was home at about 21:30 in Halmstad the same day I left home. That brings me to the other aspect. We don't only go to Stockholm, you know. If I need to go to Kiruna, Karlstad, Umeå or some other place we call a major city in this 1572 km long country, it gets kind of problematic if only "markets" with substantially more than 100k inhabitants are to have flights to Stockholm, as that would mean Göteborg and Malmö only!
When it comes to Kristianstad one may think that there are plenty of direct flights nearby, like Ronneby, Växjö and Malmö. Still, the convenience of flying directly and skipping the 2-2,5 hours (travel time + margin) extra time to get to the airport is rather precious.


Yes but isn't that because of geography? How long would it take to take the train or drive between the two cities?
 
Someone83
Posts: 5383
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:20 am

Blerg wrote:
M564038 wrote:
Compared with Malmø’s 350000, the miniature Norwegian town Trondheim’s(150000) route to Oslo was as of 2017 Europe’s 5th busiest route!
That is how weird the norwegian airline market is.



Yes but isn't that because of geography? How long would it take to take the train or drive between the two cities?


About 6 hours, give or take

But yes, geography plays an important role. Population of Trondheim is btw little more than 200.000, but assume you can about double it when looking at TRD's catchment area. In addition TRD work as an important regional hub for the airports between TRD and BOO - ie: Namsos, Rørvik, Brønnøysund, Sandnessjøen, Mosjøen and Mo i Rana. However it has less amount of international routes compared to BGO/SVG, thus more international passengers are transfering through OSL. TRD had a little over 5 mill passengers pre-Covid
 
jamesontheroad
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:52 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:36 am

Västerbottens Kuriren (VK), the principal newspaper in Västerbotten county, has run a couple of features in the last week about the new Swedish ambulance flight. There is a background article here, behind a paywall but accessible if you have a subscription to one of its regional sister newspapers: https://www.vk.se/2020-12-10/det-nya-ambulansflyget-kan-bli-dyrare-for-regionen

In brief, for more than twenty years, ambulance flights In the four northern counties of Sweden have been procured commercially, with Babcock Scandinavian Air Ambulance winning the procurement in 2003 and 2007, extended a couple of times until the end of 2021. Now, all the regions of Sweden have made a landmark decision to establish their own national ambulance airline, Kommunalförbundet Svensk Ambulansflyg (KSA) the Swedish Ambulance Association. Six Pilatus PC-24 jets have been acquired and will be on standby at three bases in Umeå, Arlanda and Landvetter. The intention is for better coordination between flights so that there are fewer empty legs.

In the last few days, this report has highlighted union and pilot concerns that flight deck crew will not be employed by KSA, but via a staffing company. The chairman of Svensk Pilotförening, the Swedish pilots' association, argues that such procurement is appropriate when a business should be exposed to commercial competition but that is inappropriate for a public ambulance.
 
Someone83
Posts: 5383
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:44 am

After 13 years, does Widerøe Ground Handling make a comeback at OSL. They will take over the ground handling of Widerøe from Mai 1 2021. I do assume they eventuelly will get the contract with some other airlines there as well

In Norwegian:
https://www.mynewsdesk.com/no/wideroe/p ... en-3059919
 
Someone83
Posts: 5383
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:12 pm

OSL November traffic numbers:

Domestic 251.051 -74,3%
International 69.141 -94,0%
Total 320.192 -84,9%
 
Someone83
Posts: 5383
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:46 pm

German Sundair har startet a 1x weekly ARN-BEY flight

https://check-in.dk/tysk-flyselskab-med ... stockholm/
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 1263
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Dec 16, 2020 5:54 pm

jamesontheroad wrote:
Västerbottens Kuriren (VK), the principal newspaper in Västerbotten county, has run a couple of features in the last week about the new Swedish ambulance flight. There is a background article here, behind a paywall but accessible if you have a subscription to one of its regional sister newspapers: https://www.vk.se/2020-12-10/det-nya-ambulansflyget-kan-bli-dyrare-for-regionen

In brief, for more than twenty years, ambulance flights In the four northern counties of Sweden have been procured commercially, with Babcock Scandinavian Air Ambulance winning the procurement in 2003 and 2007, extended a couple of times until the end of 2021. Now, all the regions of Sweden have made a landmark decision to establish their own national ambulance airline, Kommunalförbundet Svensk Ambulansflyg (KSA) the Swedish Ambulance Association. Six Pilatus PC-24 jets have been acquired and will be on standby at three bases in Umeå, Arlanda and Landvetter. The intention is for better coordination between flights so that there are fewer empty legs.

In the last few days, this report has highlighted union and pilot concerns that flight deck crew will not be employed by KSA, but via a staffing company. The chairman of Svensk Pilotförening, the Swedish pilots' association, argues that such procurement is appropriate when a business should be exposed to commercial competition but that is inappropriate for a public ambulance.


This is the point I was making on the earlier discussion about Wizz Air. The idea that Wizz is the only company trying to lower costs is laughable. Everyone in Scandinavia is at it.
 
M564038
Posts: 651
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:10 am

Only 1/10 of Norwegians are positive towards using Wizz. No less than 63% are strongly negative towards them.
This is a failing entry in to the market.

https://frifagbevegelse.no/nyheter/far- ... 972a6e3d7b
 
Blerg
Posts: 4988
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:06 pm

M564038 wrote:
Only 1/10 of Norwegians are positive towards using Wizz. No less than 63% are strongly negative towards them.
This is a failing entry in to the market.

https://frifagbevegelse.no/nyheter/far- ... 972a6e3d7b


Well, let's wait and see how those 9/10 Norwegians feel about them the next time they have to travel.
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 1263
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:07 pm

M564038 wrote:
Only 1/10 of Norwegians are positive towards using Wizz. No less than 63% are strongly negative towards them.
This is a failing entry in to the market.

https://frifagbevegelse.no/nyheter/far- ... 972a6e3d7b


That means nothing. I am not positive towards using Ryanair but when the price/time/flight is right I do.
 
M564038
Posts: 651
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:12 pm

Hard to take your reply seriously.
These kind of numbers are unheard of at entry into a new market .
Gives me Lidl-vibes. They got a similar response and didn’t last long in Norway.



seansasLCY wrote:
M564038 wrote:
Only 1/10 of Norwegians are positive towards using Wizz. No less than 63% are strongly negative towards them.
This is a failing entry in to the market.

https://frifagbevegelse.no/nyheter/far- ... 972a6e3d7b


That means nothing. I am not positive towards using Ryanair but when the price/time/flight is right I do.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:28 pm

Ryanair got A LOT of bad press and mud-slinging everytime they entered a market..The public loved to hate them but they never said no to lower fares..And don't forget that many years ago Ryanair was flying to a lot less main airports and mostly to secondary ones, some in the middle of nowhere..It still does but now to a lesser extent..The horror stories you would read and hear..The press had a field day with them..And here they are today against all odds..Yes, Norwegian market is tough and the press isn't on their side..But Wizz is equally tough and they won't give up without a real fight..I hope, for consumer's sake, they don't bow out-if things return to some sort of normalcy
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
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Aeroflot777
Posts: 3214
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:31 pm

M564038 wrote:
Hard to take your reply seriously.
These kind of numbers are unheard of at entry into a new market .
Gives me Lidl-vibes. They got a similar response and didn’t last long in Norway.


We’re in the middle of COVID. If Wizz Air lasts, by the time people start traveling again, young Norwegians will be thrilled for lower fares, while their older generations at home are reading newspapers and pointing fingers.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 1114
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:48 pm

Blerg wrote:
Yes but isn't that because of geography? How long would it take to take the train or drive between the two cities?


Geography, and the bad state of the Norwegian rail network. Stockholm-Malmö is longer than Oslo-Trondheim, but there is a huge difference in the railways between the towns. Stockholm-Malmö is double track all the way, mostly 200 km/h. Oslo-Trondheim is mostly single track, and apart from some fast stretches close to Oslo the track speed rarely exceeds 130 km/h and even goes as low as 85 km/h.

Malmö is also in a bit weird situation since the catchment area overlaps very much with CPH and from central Malmö it is usually faster to get to CPH compared to MMX.
 
factsonly
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:17 pm

SK1819 ARN - LPA operated by SAS Ireland with Airbus A320-251N EI-SIG diverted to AMS this morning.
The flight continued after a one hour ground stop at AMS as SK 1821.

19 Dec 2020 ARN 11.10 - LPA 15.30 SK1819 A20N EI-SIG Diverted to AMS
19 Dec 2020 AMS 14.34 - LPA 18.04 SK1821 A20N EI-SIG

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/sk1819

https://www.flightradar24.com/SAS1821/265ab34f
 
EFHK
Posts: 451
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:52 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:31 pm

Bostrom wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Yes but isn't that because of geography? How long would it take to take the train or drive between the two cities?


Geography, and the bad state of the Norwegian rail network. Stockholm-Malmö is longer than Oslo-Trondheim, but there is a huge difference in the railways between the towns. Stockholm-Malmö is double track all the way, mostly 200 km/h. Oslo-Trondheim is mostly single track, and apart from some fast stretches close to Oslo the track speed rarely exceeds 130 km/h and even goes as low as 85 km/h.

Malmö is also in a bit weird situation since the catchment area overlaps very much with CPH and from central Malmö it is usually faster to get to CPH compared to MMX.



To be fair, the "bad state of Norwegian rail network" can in my opinion be pretty much directly attributed to geography. Between Stockholm and Malmö you can for the most part just lay down tracks on a rather even ground, between Oslo and Trondheim you'd have to build countless tunnels, bridges, whatnot to achieve comparable speed capabilities for the train tracks, making it all massively more expensive. Why invest so much money on that infrastructure, when you already have that in place with airports?
 
minilinde
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:51 am

factsonly wrote:
SK1819 ARN - LPA operated by SAS Ireland with Airbus A320-251N EI-SIG diverted to AMS this morning.
The flight continued after a one hour ground stop at AMS as SK 1821.

19 Dec 2020 ARN 11.10 - LPA 15.30 SK1819 A20N EI-SIG Diverted to AMS
19 Dec 2020 AMS 14.34 - LPA 18.04 SK1821 A20N EI-SIG

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/sk1819

https://www.flightradar24.com/SAS1821/265ab34f


Diversion was due to unruly passenger: https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/rg ... ades-landa

Sounds to me like the passenger did not follow the COVID mask requirement
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
User avatar
SASViking
Posts: 501
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:06 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:01 pm

Due to Sweden closing it's borders with Denmark, SAS will temporarily operate flights from Copenhagen to Rønne/Bornholm during Christmas.

Schedule:

SK6250 CPH-RNN 15:00-15:45 23DEC20
SK6251 RNN-CPH 16:30-17:05 23DEC20

SK6250 CPH-RNN 12:00-12:45 26DEC20
SK6251 RNN-CPH 13:30-14:10 26DEC20

All flights will be operated by Airbus A320Neo.

The current operator on the route, DAT, have also increased flights during Christmas, with some flights being operated by their MD-83.
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 1263
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:13 pm

BA will launch a daily 787 cargo flight between LHR and Oslo from 7th Jan.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 1:29 pm

SASViking wrote:
Due to Sweden closing it's borders with Denmark, SAS will temporarily operate flights from Copenhagen to Rønne/Bornholm during Christmas.

Schedule:

SK6250 CPH-RNN 15:00-15:45 23DEC20
SK6251 RNN-CPH 16:30-17:05 23DEC20

SK6250 CPH-RNN 12:00-12:45 26DEC20
SK6251 RNN-CPH 13:30-14:10 26DEC20

All flights will be operated by Airbus A320Neo.

The current operator on the route, DAT, have also increased flights during Christmas, with some flights being operated by their MD-83.


Wow...I'd have thought they'd use ATRs and CRJs for such short-distance flight.since there are ferries connecting from Koege, no need to go to Ystad...Why did Sweden close borders? Isn't Britain the "bad" guy in the story?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
User avatar
SASViking
Posts: 501
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:06 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:02 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
SASViking wrote:
Due to Sweden closing it's borders with Denmark, SAS will temporarily operate flights from Copenhagen to Rønne/Bornholm during Christmas.

Schedule:

SK6250 CPH-RNN 15:00-15:45 23DEC20
SK6251 RNN-CPH 16:30-17:05 23DEC20

SK6250 CPH-RNN 12:00-12:45 26DEC20
SK6251 RNN-CPH 13:30-14:10 26DEC20

All flights will be operated by Airbus A320Neo.

The current operator on the route, DAT, have also increased flights during Christmas, with some flights being operated by their MD-83.


Wow...I'd have thought they'd use ATRs and CRJs for such short-distance flight.since there are ferries connecting from Koege, no need to go to Ystad...Why did Sweden close borders? Isn't Britain the "bad" guy in the story?

Having larger aircraft on that route isn't unusual. Cimber Sterling operated 737-700s on that route, also outside of the holiday seasons. The problems with the ferry between Køge and Rønne is first of all the long crossing time. Secondly the ferry operating that route is designed primarily for freight, it's capacity for cars and foot passengers is relatively small compared to the other ferries (via Ystad). Dispite additional departures from Køge, the capacity is simply nowhere near what can be offered via Rønne-Ystad.
The reason for the closure is that the "UK-variant" of COVID-19 has been found in Denmark too, albeit in very small numbers.
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
minilinde
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:28 pm

SASViking wrote:
Due to Sweden closing it's borders with Denmark, SAS will temporarily operate flights from Copenhagen to Rønne/Bornholm during Christmas.

Schedule:

SK6250 CPH-RNN 15:00-15:45 23DEC20
SK6251 RNN-CPH 16:30-17:05 23DEC20

SK6250 CPH-RNN 12:00-12:45 26DEC20
SK6251 RNN-CPH 13:30-14:10 26DEC20

All flights will be operated by Airbus A320Neo.

The current operator on the route, DAT, have also increased flights during Christmas, with some flights being operated by their MD-83.


The 26th got sold out in 2,5 hours. Another flights has been added on the 27th.
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
factsonly
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:53 am

Qatar Cargo operates LUX - EVE:

- QR8023 LUX 08.16 - EVE 10:57 B77W A7-BAV

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a7-bav
 
Someone83
Posts: 5383
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:38 am

[list=][/list]
factsonly wrote:
Qatar Cargo operates LUX - EVE:

- QR8023 LUX 08.16 - EVE 10:57 B77W A7-BAV

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a7-bav


The route was launced last week. 3x weekly EVE-DOH for fresh seafood. Usually the 77W «Preighter» comes up from LUX
 
minilinde
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:19 am

During the flight ban’s between UK and DK/NO/SE SAS flies passengers to UK and empty (cargo only) on the return to Scandinavia.
Denmark’s ban was lifted the 25DEC
Norway has extended it to the 28DEC, including the 28DEC
Sweden to the 31DEC, including the 31DEC
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
ilari
Topic Author
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:26 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:57 pm

BA "accidently" flew LHR-ARN with 33 pax on board, 29 Swedes going home and 4 Finns continuing to HEL.

Link in Finnish: https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000007705524.html
 
minilinde
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:35 pm

ilari wrote:
BA "accidently" flew LHR-ARN with 33 pax on board, 29 Swedes going home and 4 Finns continuing to HEL.

Link in Finnish: https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000007705524.html


So the BA pilots didn’t read the NOTAM before takeoff:

- COVID-19: FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS
ALL FLIGHTS WITH PASSENGERS OUT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM WITH
DESTINATION TO SWEDEN ARE PROHIBITED TO ENTER SWEDEN BY ORDER OF THE
SWEDISH GOVERNMENT.
EXEMPTED FROM THE RESTRICTION ARE:
FLIGHTS TO REPATRIATE AIRCRAFT STATIONED IN SWEDEN AND THEIR CREWS
FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM,
TRANSPORTATION OF HEALTHCARE AND MEDICAL PERSONNEL IN THE INTEREST
OF PUBLIC HEALTH,
AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHTS WITH A VALID OPERATIVE LICENCE,
FLIGHTS OPERATED WITH SPECIAL APPROVAL OF THE SWEDISH TRANSPORT
AGENCY.
FROM: 23 DEC 2020 15:00 TO: 31 DEC 2020 23:59 ES/A1447/20


Source: https://www.aro.lfv.se/Links/Link/ViewLink?TorLinkId=162&type=AIS
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
ilari
Topic Author
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:26 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:45 pm

minilinde wrote:
ilari wrote:
BA "accidently" flew LHR-ARN with 33 pax on board, 29 Swedes going home and 4 Finns continuing to HEL.

Link in Finnish: https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000007705524.html


So the BA pilots didn’t read the NOTAM before takeoff:

- COVID-19: FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS
ALL FLIGHTS WITH PASSENGERS OUT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM WITH
DESTINATION TO SWEDEN ARE PROHIBITED TO ENTER SWEDEN BY ORDER OF THE
SWEDISH GOVERNMENT.
EXEMPTED FROM THE RESTRICTION ARE:
FLIGHTS TO REPATRIATE AIRCRAFT STATIONED IN SWEDEN AND THEIR CREWS
FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM,
TRANSPORTATION OF HEALTHCARE AND MEDICAL PERSONNEL IN THE INTEREST
OF PUBLIC HEALTH,
AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHTS WITH A VALID OPERATIVE LICENCE,
FLIGHTS OPERATED WITH SPECIAL APPROVAL OF THE SWEDISH TRANSPORT
AGENCY.
FROM: 23 DEC 2020 15:00 TO: 31 DEC 2020 23:59 ES/A1447/20


Source: https://www.aro.lfv.se/Links/Link/ViewLink?TorLinkId=162&type=AIS


At least AY follows the rules. They carry passengers to LHR, MAN and EDI but fly back empty (or with cargo only).
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1514
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:47 pm

I imagine that Sweden will fine British Airways a pile of cash... BA will grovel in the hope of reducing the fine.... and somebody at BA will get shouted at / fired
 
minilinde
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:11 pm

ilari wrote:
minilinde wrote:
ilari wrote:
BA "accidently" flew LHR-ARN with 33 pax on board, 29 Swedes going home and 4 Finns continuing to HEL.

Link in Finnish: https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000007705524.html


So the BA pilots didn’t read the NOTAM before takeoff:

- COVID-19: FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS
ALL FLIGHTS WITH PASSENGERS OUT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM WITH
DESTINATION TO SWEDEN ARE PROHIBITED TO ENTER SWEDEN BY ORDER OF THE
SWEDISH GOVERNMENT.
EXEMPTED FROM THE RESTRICTION ARE:
FLIGHTS TO REPATRIATE AIRCRAFT STATIONED IN SWEDEN AND THEIR CREWS
FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM,
TRANSPORTATION OF HEALTHCARE AND MEDICAL PERSONNEL IN THE INTEREST
OF PUBLIC HEALTH,
AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHTS WITH A VALID OPERATIVE LICENCE,
FLIGHTS OPERATED WITH SPECIAL APPROVAL OF THE SWEDISH TRANSPORT
AGENCY.
FROM: 23 DEC 2020 15:00 TO: 31 DEC 2020 23:59 ES/A1447/20


Source: https://www.aro.lfv.se/Links/Link/ViewLink?TorLinkId=162&type=AIS


At least AY follows the rules. They carry passengers to LHR, MAN and EDI but fly back empty (or with cargo only).


SK does the same. All flights are operated one-way pax, and return with cargo only. Embarrassing for BA to not follow simpel NOTAMs
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 7159
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:27 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
I imagine that Sweden will fine British Airways a pile of cash... BA will grovel in the hope of reducing the fine.... and somebody at BA will get shouted at / fired

Nah, this is all east of the Atlantic. The lawyers don't get fifty percent of the revenue, and Swedish judges don't take bribes.

Maybe some time next year a clerk will get the job to investigate how an airline could miss reading a NOTAM among a million other NOTAMs.

And maybe an individual person will be found, and he/she will be adviced to read more carefully when the whole thing is repeated as we get hit by COVID-21, COVID-23, or whatever will continue to destroy the world when COVID-19 in a few years time takes the back seat.

Both British and Swedish people are too smart to start flying armies of lawyers back and forth between British and Swedish courtrooms to settle this incident. They are both so called "developed countries".
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
VSMUT
Posts: 5497
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:56 am

minilinde wrote:
ilari wrote:
BA "accidently" flew LHR-ARN with 33 pax on board, 29 Swedes going home and 4 Finns continuing to HEL.

Link in Finnish: https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000007705524.html


So the BA pilots didn’t read the NOTAM before takeoff:

- COVID-19: FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS
ALL FLIGHTS WITH PASSENGERS OUT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM WITH
DESTINATION TO SWEDEN ARE PROHIBITED TO ENTER SWEDEN BY ORDER OF THE
SWEDISH GOVERNMENT.
EXEMPTED FROM THE RESTRICTION ARE:
FLIGHTS TO REPATRIATE AIRCRAFT STATIONED IN SWEDEN AND THEIR CREWS
FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM,
TRANSPORTATION OF HEALTHCARE AND MEDICAL PERSONNEL IN THE INTEREST
OF PUBLIC HEALTH,
AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHTS WITH A VALID OPERATIVE LICENCE,
FLIGHTS OPERATED WITH SPECIAL APPROVAL OF THE SWEDISH TRANSPORT
AGENCY.
FROM: 23 DEC 2020 15:00 TO: 31 DEC 2020 23:59 ES/A1447/20


Source: https://www.aro.lfv.se/Links/Link/ViewLink?TorLinkId=162&type=AIS


In fairness, that NOTAM is listed under the general notifications for the entirety of Sweden, not in the Arlanda specific NOTAMs. It's fairly easy to miss these, because it will be buried down in the package between all the lengthy German recommendations not to fly over Yemen, Libya, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Ukraine, hundreds of newly erected windmills and cranes in Germany and a couple of hundred closed military exercise areas in the UK.
 
minilinde
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:23 pm

VSMUT wrote:
minilinde wrote:
ilari wrote:
BA "accidently" flew LHR-ARN with 33 pax on board, 29 Swedes going home and 4 Finns continuing to HEL.

Link in Finnish: https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000007705524.html


So the BA pilots didn’t read the NOTAM before takeoff:

- COVID-19: FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS
ALL FLIGHTS WITH PASSENGERS OUT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM WITH
DESTINATION TO SWEDEN ARE PROHIBITED TO ENTER SWEDEN BY ORDER OF THE
SWEDISH GOVERNMENT.
EXEMPTED FROM THE RESTRICTION ARE:
FLIGHTS TO REPATRIATE AIRCRAFT STATIONED IN SWEDEN AND THEIR CREWS
FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM,
TRANSPORTATION OF HEALTHCARE AND MEDICAL PERSONNEL IN THE INTEREST
OF PUBLIC HEALTH,
AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHTS WITH A VALID OPERATIVE LICENCE,
FLIGHTS OPERATED WITH SPECIAL APPROVAL OF THE SWEDISH TRANSPORT
AGENCY.
FROM: 23 DEC 2020 15:00 TO: 31 DEC 2020 23:59 ES/A1447/20


Source: https://www.aro.lfv.se/Links/Link/ViewLink?TorLinkId=162&type=AIS


In fairness, that NOTAM is listed under the general notifications for the entirety of Sweden, not in the Arlanda specific NOTAMs. It's fairly easy to miss these, because it will be buried down in the package between all the lengthy German recommendations not to fly over Yemen, Libya, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Ukraine, hundreds of newly erected windmills and cranes in Germany and a couple of hundred closed military exercise areas in the UK.


Agree that there is a general inflation in NOTAMs with all birds and cranes mentioned...
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5884
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:39 pm

marcogr12 wrote:
Ryanair got A LOT of bad press and mud-slinging everytime they entered a market..The public loved to hate them but they never said no to lower fares..And don't forget that many years ago Ryanair was flying to a lot less main airports and mostly to secondary ones, some in the middle of nowhere..It still does but now to a lesser extent..The horror stories you would read and hear..The press had a field day with them..And here they are today against all odds..Yes, Norwegian market is tough and the press isn't on their side..But Wizz is equally tough and they won't give up without a real fight..I hope, for consumer's sake, they don't bow out-if things return to some sort of normalcy


Ryanair is successful in very price-sensitive markets which are Southern Europe, Eastern Europe and the UK/Ireland. In other parts of Europe where people is more "socially conscious" and/or wealthier (France, DACH, Scandinavia), Ryanair has not been as successful.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 1114
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 6:40 pm

EFHK wrote:
To be fair, the "bad state of Norwegian rail network" can in my opinion be pretty much directly attributed to geography. Between Stockholm and Malmö you can for the most part just lay down tracks on a rather even ground, between Oslo and Trondheim you'd have to build countless tunnels, bridges, whatnot to achieve comparable speed capabilities for the train tracks, making it all massively more expensive. Why invest so much money on that infrastructure, when you already have that in place with airports?


Geography is part of the reason, but lack of political will is another big factor. Look at the Trondheim-Östersund rail line e.g., electrified and mostly 140 km/h on the Swedish side, unelectrified and mostly 80 km/h on the Norwegian side. And the geography doesn't change that much at the border.

Railways are also a great way to serve smaller towns along the rail line that do not have an airport.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:16 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
Ryanair got A LOT of bad press and mud-slinging everytime they entered a market..The public loved to hate them but they never said no to lower fares..And don't forget that many years ago Ryanair was flying to a lot less main airports and mostly to secondary ones, some in the middle of nowhere..It still does but now to a lesser extent..The horror stories you would read and hear..The press had a field day with them..And here they are today against all odds..Yes, Norwegian market is tough and the press isn't on their side..But Wizz is equally tough and they won't give up without a real fight..I hope, for consumer's sake, they don't bow out-if things return to some sort of normalcy


Ryanair is successful in very price-sensitive markets which are Southern Europe, Eastern Europe and the UK/Ireland. In other parts of Europe where people is more "socially conscious" and/or wealthier (France, DACH, Scandinavia), Ryanair has not been as successful.


In Scandinavia, apart from Copenhagen, Goeteborg and Skavsta, no not particularly..In Germany it has developed a substantial network in CGN,HAM,NUE,BER,NRN,FMM,FKB, in Vienna too, in France has set up bases in Beauvais,BOD,TLS,MRS and is planning to expand ..It also has a base in rich LUX..So i wouldn't say it has failed in pricey western europe..
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
User avatar
lesfalls
Posts: 3548
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:16 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
Ryanair got A LOT of bad press and mud-slinging everytime they entered a market..The public loved to hate them but they never said no to lower fares..And don't forget that many years ago Ryanair was flying to a lot less main airports and mostly to secondary ones, some in the middle of nowhere..It still does but now to a lesser extent..The horror stories you would read and hear..The press had a field day with them..And here they are today against all odds..Yes, Norwegian market is tough and the press isn't on their side..But Wizz is equally tough and they won't give up without a real fight..I hope, for consumer's sake, they don't bow out-if things return to some sort of normalcy


Ryanair is successful in very price-sensitive markets which are Southern Europe, Eastern Europe and the UK/Ireland. In other parts of Europe where people is more "socially conscious" and/or wealthier (France, DACH, Scandinavia), Ryanair has not been as successful.


Could you explain the following more? You bring up an interesting point. I really wonder what causes people in the following countries (France, DACH, Scandinavia) not to take Ryanair as I know in the case of Germany LH has a lot of lobbying power both for international and regional players.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 1114
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:56 pm

lesfalls wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
Ryanair got A LOT of bad press and mud-slinging everytime they entered a market..The public loved to hate them but they never said no to lower fares..And don't forget that many years ago Ryanair was flying to a lot less main airports and mostly to secondary ones, some in the middle of nowhere..It still does but now to a lesser extent..The horror stories you would read and hear..The press had a field day with them..And here they are today against all odds..Yes, Norwegian market is tough and the press isn't on their side..But Wizz is equally tough and they won't give up without a real fight..I hope, for consumer's sake, they don't bow out-if things return to some sort of normalcy


Ryanair is successful in very price-sensitive markets which are Southern Europe, Eastern Europe and the UK/Ireland. In other parts of Europe where people is more "socially conscious" and/or wealthier (France, DACH, Scandinavia), Ryanair has not been as successful.


Could you explain the following more? You bring up an interesting point. I really wonder what causes people in the following countries (France, DACH, Scandinavia) not to take Ryanair as I know in the case of Germany LH has a lot of lobbying power both for international and regional players.


Because they use small airports far away from your destination?
 
Blerg
Posts: 4988
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:06 am

lesfalls wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
Ryanair got A LOT of bad press and mud-slinging everytime they entered a market..The public loved to hate them but they never said no to lower fares..And don't forget that many years ago Ryanair was flying to a lot less main airports and mostly to secondary ones, some in the middle of nowhere..It still does but now to a lesser extent..The horror stories you would read and hear..The press had a field day with them..And here they are today against all odds..Yes, Norwegian market is tough and the press isn't on their side..But Wizz is equally tough and they won't give up without a real fight..I hope, for consumer's sake, they don't bow out-if things return to some sort of normalcy


Ryanair is successful in very price-sensitive markets which are Southern Europe, Eastern Europe and the UK/Ireland. In other parts of Europe where people is more "socially conscious" and/or wealthier (France, DACH, Scandinavia), Ryanair has not been as successful.


Could you explain the following more? You bring up an interesting point. I really wonder what causes people in the following countries (France, DACH, Scandinavia) not to take Ryanair as I know in the case of Germany LH has a lot of lobbying power both for international and regional players.


What he wrote is pure nonsense. Just like any airline out there, FR has its stronger and weaker markets. That said, they are present in some wealthy markets, just look at what they are doing in Vienna and how well they were accepted there. I think last year they were behind only OS in terms of marketshare.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5884
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:02 am

marcogr12 wrote:
In Scandinavia, apart from Copenhagen, Goeteborg and Skavsta, no not particularly..In Germany it has developed a substantial network in CGN,HAM,NUE,BER,NRN,FMM,FKB, in Vienna too, in France has set up bases in Beauvais,BOD,TLS,MRS and is planning to expand ..It also has a base in rich LUX..So i wouldn't say it has failed in pricey western europe..


If you take Germany, I can't see how Ryanair is very successful there.

- DUS/STR: Lauda (Ryanair) closed their bases. Major failure.
- CGN: reduced a lot their presence (dropping markets like CGN-BER which are now an Eurowings monopoly)
- FRA: reduced their presence to a minimum
- HAM: reduced their presence to a minimum
- NUE: reduced their presence to a minimum
- HHN/NRN/FMM/FKB: secondary Ryanair airports which have never really taken off (HHN/NRN have now much fewer passengers than a few years ago). They have never became a BGY/STN.

The only market where Ryanair has a substantial presence is Berlin, which is the most price-sensitive and "less German" market (lower income and more geared towards international tourists). Pretty much every other major market that Ryanair has tried (DUS, HAM, FRA), they have failed.
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 1263
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:04 am

Blerg wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:

Ryanair is successful in very price-sensitive markets which are Southern Europe, Eastern Europe and the UK/Ireland. In other parts of Europe where people is more "socially conscious" and/or wealthier (France, DACH, Scandinavia), Ryanair has not been as successful.


Could you explain the following more? You bring up an interesting point. I really wonder what causes people in the following countries (France, DACH, Scandinavia) not to take Ryanair as I know in the case of Germany LH has a lot of lobbying power both for international and regional players.


What he wrote is pure nonsense. Just like any airline out there, FR has its stronger and weaker markets. That said, they are present in some wealthy markets, just look at what they are doing in Vienna and how well they were accepted there. I think last year they were behind only OS in terms of marketshare.


Indeed. In Scandinavia I would argue partly the reason is geography. It’s further away than other places so one route uses a plane for longer - example Stockholm to Madrid would take longer than Germany or Uk-Madrid meaning that plane can operate one less flight per day. In Norway and Sweden a lot of the airports are also operated by the same company which I imagine makes it difficult to get a good deal like they do in the U.K or France.

Scandinavia also had a large rival already in place in Norwegian and SAS was well protected.

As for other places Ryanair is still large in France more so in regional airports. In Germany they have a lot of ops too even though Lufthansa is so dominant and well protected. So as Blerg wrote Ryanair is like most airlines. Strong in places and weaker in others.
 
a350lover
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:51 am

Comparing Germany (83,2 million people) to Scandinavia (a bit more than 21 million; around 26 if you wanna include Finland) isn't exactly accurate. I can see the point Ryanair is more appealing and successful at markets where low-fares play a very important part, but to me the point here is competence. Lufthansa is probably the strongest airline group with the largest network itself plus partners. Although Ryanair feels confortable against competence, hubs like Dublin, Bergamo or Stansted demonstrate how good Ryanair feels being the one and main player.

Barcelona, Berlin and Lisbon are to me perfect examples of Ryanair airports where everyone is fighting for a tiny little piece of cake.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5884
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:40 am

a350lover wrote:
Comparing Germany (83,2 million people) to Scandinavia (a bit more than 21 million; around 26 if you wanna include Finland) isn't exactly accurate. I can see the point Ryanair is more appealing and successful at markets where low-fares play a very important part, but to me the point here is competence. Lufthansa is probably the strongest airline group with the largest network itself plus partners. Although Ryanair feels confortable against competence, hubs like Dublin, Bergamo or Stansted demonstrate how good Ryanair feels being the one and main player.

Barcelona, Berlin and Lisbon are to me perfect examples of Ryanair airports where everyone is fighting for a tiny little piece of cake.


That is very arguable. Lufthansa outside FRA and MUC is somehow a failure (read Eurowings). Despite Eurowings' "failure", Ryanair has not been able to dominate major markets like DUS, CGN, STR or HAM. In fact it has failed pretty much in all of them.

In Spain, Ryanair is dominant or has an extremely strong position in every other major airport (except BIO): MAD, BCN, VLC, SVQ, AGP, ALC, PMI... Ryanair is a major carrier (or the largest) in all of them only behind Iberia (MAD) or Vueling (BCN).

The same can be said about Italy or Poland.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4988
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:57 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
a350lover wrote:
Comparing Germany (83,2 million people) to Scandinavia (a bit more than 21 million; around 26 if you wanna include Finland) isn't exactly accurate. I can see the point Ryanair is more appealing and successful at markets where low-fares play a very important part, but to me the point here is competence. Lufthansa is probably the strongest airline group with the largest network itself plus partners. Although Ryanair feels confortable against competence, hubs like Dublin, Bergamo or Stansted demonstrate how good Ryanair feels being the one and main player.

Barcelona, Berlin and Lisbon are to me perfect examples of Ryanair airports where everyone is fighting for a tiny little piece of cake.


That is very arguable. Lufthansa outside FRA and MUC is somehow a failure (read Eurowings). Despite Eurowings' "failure", Ryanair has not been able to dominate major markets like DUS, CGN, STR or HAM. In fact it has failed pretty much in all of them.

In Spain, Ryanair is dominant or has an extremely strong position in every other major airport (except BIO): MAD, BCN, VLC, SVQ, AGP, ALC, PMI... Ryanair is a major carrier (or the largest) in all of them only behind Iberia (MAD) or Vueling (BCN).

The same can be said about Italy or Poland.


Well, Ryanair seems to be holding strong in Vienna which is definitely a big and rich market. There is always a first, things could change in Germany in the future as well.
 
marcogr12
Posts: 624
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:46 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
a350lover wrote:
Comparing Germany (83,2 million people) to Scandinavia (a bit more than 21 million; around 26 if you wanna include Finland) isn't exactly accurate. I can see the point Ryanair is more appealing and successful at markets where low-fares play a very important part, but to me the point here is competence. Lufthansa is probably the strongest airline group with the largest network itself plus partners. Although Ryanair feels confortable against competence, hubs like Dublin, Bergamo or Stansted demonstrate how good Ryanair feels being the one and main player.

Barcelona, Berlin and Lisbon are to me perfect examples of Ryanair airports where everyone is fighting for a tiny little piece of cake.


That is very arguable. Lufthansa outside FRA and MUC is somehow a failure (read Eurowings). Despite Eurowings' "failure", Ryanair has not been able to dominate major markets like DUS, CGN, STR or HAM. In fact it has failed pretty much in all of them.

In Spain, Ryanair is dominant or has an extremely strong position in every other major airport (except BIO): MAD, BCN, VLC, SVQ, AGP, ALC, PMI... Ryanair is a major carrier (or the largest) in all of them only behind Iberia (MAD) or Vueling (BCN).

The same can be said about Italy or Poland.


In CGN it still got 30 destinations served and in FRA 23, even after reductions..I think it should stop flying HHN and concentrate on FRA if they get the slots..Plus, they compete with Wizz in the same markets in Germany although Wizzair gave up FRA totally..In Norway they serve Torp more than a few OSL, but Torp is so far away from Oslo..Rygge was their airport but it closed..I dont know if they intend to expand in OSL..How did CPH attract so many LCC routes and ARN and OSL can't,apart from Norwegian? Even KEF has more LCCs than those two
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
holczakker
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun May 26, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:06 pm

Wizz removed the following routes from its booking system for 2021:

Copenhagen-Lviv
Trondheim-Riga
Trondheim-Tallinn
Bergen-Tallinn
Turku-Warsaw

No official announcement as ususal.

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Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos