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VSMUT
Posts: 4572
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 9:54 am

Blerg wrote:
So how many of those 23 aircraft were based in Finaland and how many in Sweden? What about Denmark? Who operated those there? SK?


They are mostly based in Copenhagen with a few in Stockholm. I guess the Finnish thing was for pilots (not aircraft) based in Finland who would start and end their shifts on flights to/from Finland.
 
EFHK
Posts: 425
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:52 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:14 am

I doubt that the bankruptcy of these two parts of Cityjet affect their operation for SK at all. Only thing that's going to happen is that the same aircraft will be crewed from countries with cheaper labor contracts.

Same thing for the DY bankruptcies (for now). If they end up restarting flights in Sweden & Finland, they'll just hire those people back (or some new people) as new-hires and save on costs that way.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4904
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:18 am

VSMUT wrote:
Rumour from before the crisis is that SAS is looking to replace CityJet with Nordica completely.


Before the crisis, SAS was in the process of transfering quite a lot of the CRJ traffic from CityJet to XFly (Nordica/Regional Jets "new" company). The plan was to have CityJet operate about 18 CRJ-900 for SAS, while Xfly to have 12 aircraft, with a mix of ATRs and CRJs.

The bases for the CRJ production was mainly CPH, ARN, HEL, TLL and VNO, in terms of crew bases, where most of the traffic was providing feed and regional routes to/from ARN and CPH. In addition there was 1 aircraft at AAR, and the capacity equal +-2 CRJ flying various regional Norwegian routes
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4572
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:34 am

Someone83 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Rumour from before the crisis is that SAS is looking to replace CityJet with Nordica completely.


Before the crisis, SAS was in the process of transfering quite a lot of the CRJ traffic from CityJet to XFly (Nordica/Regional Jets "new" company). The plan was to have CityJet operate about 18 CRJ-900 for SAS, while Xfly to have 12 aircraft, with a mix of ATRs and CRJs.


They allegedly want to get rid of CityJet alltogether.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:21 am

VSMUT wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Rumour from before the crisis is that SAS is looking to replace CityJet with Nordica completely.


Before the crisis, SAS was in the process of transfering quite a lot of the CRJ traffic from CityJet to XFly (Nordica/Regional Jets "new" company). The plan was to have CityJet operate about 18 CRJ-900 for SAS, while Xfly to have 12 aircraft, with a mix of ATRs and CRJs.


They allegedly want to get rid of CityJet alltogether.


So why would SK be unhappy with the bankruptcy of Cityjet? Could it be because it caught them off guard, before they could make all the necessary arangements?
 
marcogr12
Posts: 454
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:31 am

But if SAS gets rid of CityJet and replace them with Nordica, will they have enough CRJ-900s to operate their intra-scandic and intra-european ops?
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
Blerg
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 11:47 am

marcogr12 wrote:
But if SAS gets rid of CityJet and replace them with Nordica, will they have enough CRJ-900s to operate their intra-scandic and intra-european ops?


Maybe they will transfer some CityJet CRJs to Nordica?
 
factsonly
Posts: 2977
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:03 pm

Billund NEW ROUTE announcement:

Sun-Air of Scandinavia has announced it will commence BLL - BRU 10x weekly starting September 7th, 2020 to replace the cancelled Brussels Airlines service.

- BA8221 08:00 BLL - 09.25 BRU Mon-Thu
- BA8223 15:25 BLL - 16.50 BRU Mon-Fri and Sun

- BA8222 10:00 BRU - 11.25 BLL Mon-Thu
- BA8224 17.20 BRU - 18.45 BLL Mon-Fri and Sun

Ba.com
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4572
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:58 pm

Blerg wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Someone83 wrote:

Before the crisis, SAS was in the process of transfering quite a lot of the CRJ traffic from CityJet to XFly (Nordica/Regional Jets "new" company). The plan was to have CityJet operate about 18 CRJ-900 for SAS, while Xfly to have 12 aircraft, with a mix of ATRs and CRJs.


They allegedly want to get rid of CityJet alltogether.


So why would SK be unhappy with the bankruptcy of Cityjet? Could it be because it caught them off guard, before they could make all the necessary arangements?


This was before the Corona crisis.

Irish aviation is notorious for having an uncooperative and hostile corporate culture. When CityJet started the contract, SAS management had stipulated that all staff should be hired on permanent contracts and signed up to the union. One of the first things CityJet did was to threaten employees who signed up with the union and similar nasty stuff. The relationship between SAS and CityJet management has never been good, it's tolerable at best. Chairman of CityJet, Pat Byrne, has been very vocal in his criticism of airlines with unionized workforces, even criticizing SAS on a number of occasions.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4572
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:02 pm

Blerg wrote:
marcogr12 wrote:
But if SAS gets rid of CityJet and replace them with Nordica, will they have enough CRJ-900s to operate their intra-scandic and intra-european ops?


Maybe they will transfer some CityJet CRJs to Nordica?


SAS has nothing to do with the subcontracted metal, they belong to CityJet or whoever they leased them from. Look at the FlyBe or JetTime ATRs, almost none of them went on to Nordica.

AFAIK, Nordica/Xfly has been hiring Embraer E-jet pilots over the past year. It is no secret that they are replacing the CRJs with E-jets in the LOT contract, so they will have a bunch of CRJs become available.
 
User avatar
QuawerAir
Posts: 1057
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:04 pm

Delta has closed reservations for numerous European routes for the entire summer season, including CPH and KEF.

Routesonline
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 1002
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:03 pm

SAS will resume flights ARN-GOT starting may 4th.
 
a350lover
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:26 am

If Norwegian makes it through the General Meeting with its shareholders at the beginning of May, what route map do you think it's likely to remain after the whole group is reshaped?
 
b735
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:28 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:17 am

ANA has decided to postpone launch of Tokyo Stockholm flight. From their website:

Tokyo(Haneda) = Stockholm NH221/NH222 June 6-
Route launch postponed (3 flights per week)
New launch date not yet confirmed.
Notification to be provided once launch date is decided.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:39 pm

a350lover wrote:
If Norwegian makes it through the General Meeting with its shareholders at the beginning of May, what route map do you think it's likely to remain after the whole group is reshaped?


Very limited. My guess is routes within Scandinavia and between Scandinavia and other parts of Europe.
 
Ferryflight
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:28 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:39 am

QuawerAir wrote:
Delta has closed reservations for numerous European routes for the entire summer season, including CPH and KEF.

Routesonline


The CPH route is depending on the cruise traffic to the Baltic’s and the Norwegian fjords out of Copenhagen.

I don’t think this route will return next summer either, unless something significant happens to the perception of the cruise industry.
 
Blerg
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:12 am

I read yesterday that there is a new proposal on the table to reform DY but it would mean them not flying until 2021. Anyone know more on this?
 
minilinde
Posts: 205
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:33 am

Blerg wrote:
I read yesterday that there is a new proposal on the table to reform DY but it would mean them not flying until 2021. Anyone know more on this?


Yes here are the slide deck they published. Basically they will operate 7 aircraft until S21 (Apr 2021), and then gradually ramp up to around 110-120 aircraft, from today’s 168. Full ramp up would be by January 2022. This information is from slide 34-35. They will focus on the nordics and keep some of the larger flows from LGW to US (JFK,LAX etc). They will also need further cash injections before full ramp up.

Don’t see why lessors would approve this. Better for then to take back aircraft, long term park them and wait for better times. Norwegian is bankrupt and done.

Source: https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/ ... l-2020.pdf
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
Blerg
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:37 am

minilinde wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I read yesterday that there is a new proposal on the table to reform DY but it would mean them not flying until 2021. Anyone know more on this?


Yes here are the slide deck they published. Basically they will operate 7 aircraft until S21 (Apr 2021), and then gradually ramp up to around 110-120 aircraft, from today’s 168. Full ramp up would be by January 2022. This information is from slide 34-35. They will focus on the nordics and keep some of the larger flows from LGW to US (JFK,LAX etc). They will also need further cash injections before full ramp up.

Don’t see why lessors would approve this. Better for then to take back aircraft, long term park them and wait for better times. Norwegian is bankrupt and done.

Source: https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/ ... l-2020.pdf


Thank you. I checked it out and unfortunately it also doesn't say where these planes would be based. My guess is Oslo.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Norwegian seems to be running out of time as they are still struggling to find support at a time when the whole aviation sector is in a meltdown.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:46 am

The slides are a bit reminiscent of WOW Air from Iceland, shortly before they collapsed... it feels like the author of the deck doesn't really have a grip on reality
 
minilinde
Posts: 205
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:01 am

Blerg wrote:
Thank you. I checked it out and unfortunately it also doesn't say where these planes would be based. My guess is Oslo.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Norwegian seems to be running out of time as they are still struggling to find support at a time when the whole aviation sector is in a meltdown.


There are two possible explanations to why they haven't mentioned why to base the 110-120 aircraft:
A. They won't for competitive reasons
B. They themselves don't know

It's probably a combination of both. 2022 is far far away for an airline that only has 2 weeks of cash reserves left. If they do survive until 2022, I think they will base around 50% i OSL, 30% in LGW (most 787's and some 737's) and have smaller bases in ARN and CPH.

I was surprised that they still wanted to operate long haul. Long haul has been the death for Norwegian. They should have stayed with Intra-European short haul. The cost savings of the short haul philosophy is not applicable on long haul (extend the aircraft utilisation), and long haul demand is more difficult to stimulate (fewer will take a weekend in NYC or LAX because of lower fares, then London etc.)

If they do survive, another issue will be that the market will have moved on. Ryanair and others will have expanded on routes that Norwegian has a big presence on pre-corona.

The presentation is propaganda as well. They are really trying to tell the story that they would have been profitable i 2020, with their budget figures... They haven't had a single profitable year, compare that to Easyjet or Ryanair..

Bad business's should not be saved by taxpayers, and it has been out in the industry for years and months that Norwegian was in trouble.
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
minilinde
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:17 am

Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
Oykie
Posts: 1967
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:18 am

SAS just announced they will reduce staff with 5000
Employees. As an aviation enthusiast it is sad time to only read almost only bad news regarding the business I am so passionate about. I am so sorry for all the people that work in aviation.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
Blerg
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:32 am

So how many have lost their jobs in the Nordic aviation sector? 5.000 from SK, 4.500 from DY and what about CityJet and other airports?
 
Blerg
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:33 am

minilinde wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Thank you. I checked it out and unfortunately it also doesn't say where these planes would be based. My guess is Oslo.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Norwegian seems to be running out of time as they are still struggling to find support at a time when the whole aviation sector is in a meltdown.


There are two possible explanations to why they haven't mentioned why to base the 110-120 aircraft:
A. They won't for competitive reasons
B. They themselves don't know

It's probably a combination of both. 2022 is far far away for an airline that only has 2 weeks of cash reserves left. If they do survive until 2022, I think they will base around 50% i OSL, 30% in LGW (most 787's and some 737's) and have smaller bases in ARN and CPH.

I was surprised that they still wanted to operate long haul. Long haul has been the death for Norwegian. They should have stayed with Intra-European short haul. The cost savings of the short haul philosophy is not applicable on long haul (extend the aircraft utilisation), and long haul demand is more difficult to stimulate (fewer will take a weekend in NYC or LAX because of lower fares, then London etc.)

If they do survive, another issue will be that the market will have moved on. Ryanair and others will have expanded on routes that Norwegian has a big presence on pre-corona.

The presentation is propaganda as well. They are really trying to tell the story that they would have been profitable i 2020, with their budget figures... They haven't had a single profitable year, compare that to Easyjet or Ryanair..

Bad business's should not be saved by taxpayers, and it has been out in the industry for years and months that Norwegian was in trouble.


Will be interesting to see what becomes of Oslo if Norwegian goes bankrupt. Maybe Wizz Air will rush in to fill the short-haul void or maybe someone else like SK or U2 would?
 
PavlovsDog
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:37 am

Blerg wrote:
minilinde wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Thank you. I checked it out and unfortunately it also doesn't say where these planes would be based. My guess is Oslo.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Norwegian seems to be running out of time as they are still struggling to find support at a time when the whole aviation sector is in a meltdown.


There are two possible explanations to why they haven't mentioned why to base the 110-120 aircraft:
A. They won't for competitive reasons
B. They themselves don't know

It's probably a combination of both. 2022 is far far away for an airline that only has 2 weeks of cash reserves left. If they do survive until 2022, I think they will base around 50% i OSL, 30% in LGW (most 787's and some 737's) and have smaller bases in ARN and CPH.

I was surprised that they still wanted to operate long haul. Long haul has been the death for Norwegian. They should have stayed with Intra-European short haul. The cost savings of the short haul philosophy is not applicable on long haul (extend the aircraft utilisation), and long haul demand is more difficult to stimulate (fewer will take a weekend in NYC or LAX because of lower fares, then London etc.)

If they do survive, another issue will be that the market will have moved on. Ryanair and others will have expanded on routes that Norwegian has a big presence on pre-corona.

The presentation is propaganda as well. They are really trying to tell the story that they would have been profitable i 2020, with their budget figures... They haven't had a single profitable year, compare that to Easyjet or Ryanair..

Bad business's should not be saved by taxpayers, and it has been out in the industry for years and months that Norwegian was in trouble.


Will be interesting to see what becomes of Oslo if Norwegian goes bankrupt. Maybe Wizz Air will rush in to fill the short-haul void or maybe someone else like SK or U2 would?
Norwegian will probably go bankrupt in the next few weeks. It is highly unlikely there will be enough demand to justify anyone filling the miniscule gap that might exist until things normalize. I believe there will be a Norwegian 2.0 that rises from the ashes. The core of the old Norwegian was plenty profitable until they overextended themselves with the simultaneous MAX/Airbus contract.

Maybe this is wishful thinking on my part but given the timing of recovery it would make sense for Norwegian 2.0 to let all the Boeings go and and restart with the Airbuses on order. 60 320 neos and 30 321 LR neos would be the ideal fleet for a Nordic airline basically starting from scratch but with the existing customer base/rewards program and core of the management team.
 
jhz94
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:59 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:08 am

Oykie wrote:
SAS just announced they will reduce staff with 5000
Employees. As an aviation enthusiast it is sad time to only read almost only bad news regarding the business I am so passionate about. I am so sorry for all the people that work in aviation.


Something said about SAIL?
Did you know that you can run diesel cars on Jet A1?
 
Someone83
Posts: 4904
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:01 am

jhz94 wrote:
Oykie wrote:
SAS just announced they will reduce staff with 5000
Employees. As an aviation enthusiast it is sad time to only read almost only bad news regarding the business I am so passionate about. I am so sorry for all the people that work in aviation.


Something said about SAIL?


Nothing official, but from my understanding SAIL is gone
 
Tunnelvision
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:48 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:05 am

I’d think all wet lease providers are gone?
 
a350lover
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:06 am

Someone83 wrote:
jhz94 wrote:
Oykie wrote:
SAS just announced they will reduce staff with 5000
Employees. As an aviation enthusiast it is sad time to only read almost only bad news regarding the business I am so passionate about. I am so sorry for all the people that work in aviation.


Something said about SAIL?


Nothing official, but from my understanding SAIL is gone


Were all contracts from SAIL based in LHR and AGP? The lay offs will be applied by seniority?
 
User avatar
MillwallSean
Posts: 974
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Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:09 am

Blerg wrote:
Will be interesting to see what becomes of Oslo if Norwegian goes bankrupt. Maybe Wizz Air will rush in to fill the short-haul void or maybe someone else like SK or U2 would?


Rush in?
I think its important to keep in mind that most airlines have single digit occupancy on their flights. There are no passengers.
There wont be any new carriers filling voids. To the contrary present carriers will reduce service further and the loss of Norwegian wont make much difference.
Bookings for the coming six months are virtually nil. Every European airline is in a battle to survive. Easyjet, Wizz, Ryanair they will all see thousands of staff made redundant, planes parked and services discontinued.
Capturing marketshare is not on anyones agenda to the contrary.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
minilinde
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:23 am

a350lover wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
jhz94 wrote:

Something said about SAIL?


Nothing official, but from my understanding SAIL is gone


Were all contracts from SAIL based in LHR and AGP? The lay offs will be applied by seniority?


Yes, all of SAIL was based in LHR and AGP.
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4572
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:50 am

Blerg wrote:
minilinde wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Thank you. I checked it out and unfortunately it also doesn't say where these planes would be based. My guess is Oslo.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Norwegian seems to be running out of time as they are still struggling to find support at a time when the whole aviation sector is in a meltdown.


There are two possible explanations to why they haven't mentioned why to base the 110-120 aircraft:
A. They won't for competitive reasons
B. They themselves don't know

It's probably a combination of both. 2022 is far far away for an airline that only has 2 weeks of cash reserves left. If they do survive until 2022, I think they will base around 50% i OSL, 30% in LGW (most 787's and some 737's) and have smaller bases in ARN and CPH.

I was surprised that they still wanted to operate long haul. Long haul has been the death for Norwegian. They should have stayed with Intra-European short haul. The cost savings of the short haul philosophy is not applicable on long haul (extend the aircraft utilisation), and long haul demand is more difficult to stimulate (fewer will take a weekend in NYC or LAX because of lower fares, then London etc.)

If they do survive, another issue will be that the market will have moved on. Ryanair and others will have expanded on routes that Norwegian has a big presence on pre-corona.

The presentation is propaganda as well. They are really trying to tell the story that they would have been profitable i 2020, with their budget figures... They haven't had a single profitable year, compare that to Easyjet or Ryanair..

Bad business's should not be saved by taxpayers, and it has been out in the industry for years and months that Norwegian was in trouble.


Will be interesting to see what becomes of Oslo if Norwegian goes bankrupt. Maybe Wizz Air will rush in to fill the short-haul void or maybe someone else like SK or U2 would?


What do you mean by void? Olso is already a big SAS hub.
 
a350lover
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:11 am

minilinde wrote:
Yes, all of SAIL was based in LHR and AGP.


I agree it'll be hard for other airlines to take the risk and move quickly in this scenario. Under normal conditions, Scandinavia would be a market where many would move in should Norwegian collapsed. In this scenario, it'll be hard.

AGP will see de demise of the two main carriers bringing Scandis down to Costa del Sol (Spain), Norwegian and SAS closing down bases there. For sure some will have to step in there once all this is over. AGP was the 11th busiest EU route out of Arlanda with 484,907 pax.
Last edited by a350lover on Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
SASViking
Posts: 445
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:06 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:21 am

DAT will open CPH-AAL on June 8 after Norwegians plan of not operating in Denmark until at least next year.

Link in Danish: https://dat.dk/ruter/aalborg-kobenhavn
Types flown: A319, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A343, AT43, AT75, AT76, B717, B732, B735, B736, B737, B738, B752, B753, CRJ9, DC10, DH4D, DHC3, E135, E145, E175, E190, E195, F100, MD11, MD81, MD82, MD87, RJ1H
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4572
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:31 am

a350lover wrote:
minilinde wrote:
Yes, all of SAIL was based in LHR and AGP.


I agree it'll be hard for other airlines to take the risk and move quickly in this scenario. Under normal conditions, Scandinavia would be a market where many would move in should Norwegian collapsed. In this scenario, it'll be hard.

AGP will see de demise of the two main carriers bringing Scandis down to Costa del Sol (Spain), Norwegian and SAS closing down bases there. For sure some will have to step in there once all this is over.


Lets be fair, the SAS base in Malaga was only about reducing staffing costs, a paper exercise. Demand permitting, SAS will still fly there, just with crew and aircraft based in Scandinavia. Presumably whatever is left of Norwegian will still be able to fly in passengers from other places.
 
a350lover
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:13 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Lets be fair, the SAS base in Malaga was only about reducing staffing costs, a paper exercise. Demand permitting, SAS will still fly there, just with crew and aircraft based in Scandinavia. Presumably whatever is left of Norwegian will still be able to fly in passengers from other places.


Correct. SAS overseas bases are little compared to those at Norwegian. As demand recovers, it'll be probably enough for airlines to just fly places like AGP with crews and aircrafts from Scandinavia. Once demand gets backs to figures pre-covid probably it won't and we'll see airlines serving these tourist hotspots via local bases again.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:34 pm

MillwallSean wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Will be interesting to see what becomes of Oslo if Norwegian goes bankrupt. Maybe Wizz Air will rush in to fill the short-haul void or maybe someone else like SK or U2 would?


Rush in?
I think its important to keep in mind that most airlines have single digit occupancy on their flights. There are no passengers.
There wont be any new carriers filling voids. To the contrary present carriers will reduce service further and the loss of Norwegian wont make much difference.
Bookings for the coming six months are virtually nil. Every European airline is in a battle to survive. Easyjet, Wizz, Ryanair they will all see thousands of staff made redundant, planes parked and services discontinued.
Capturing marketshare is not on anyones agenda to the contrary.


Jesus, I didn't mean the very next day. The void will be there in the sense of the passengers they carried will be up for the grabs by other airlines out there once the situation starts to return to normal.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:35 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Blerg wrote:
minilinde wrote:

There are two possible explanations to why they haven't mentioned why to base the 110-120 aircraft:
A. They won't for competitive reasons
B. They themselves don't know

It's probably a combination of both. 2022 is far far away for an airline that only has 2 weeks of cash reserves left. If they do survive until 2022, I think they will base around 50% i OSL, 30% in LGW (most 787's and some 737's) and have smaller bases in ARN and CPH.

I was surprised that they still wanted to operate long haul. Long haul has been the death for Norwegian. They should have stayed with Intra-European short haul. The cost savings of the short haul philosophy is not applicable on long haul (extend the aircraft utilisation), and long haul demand is more difficult to stimulate (fewer will take a weekend in NYC or LAX because of lower fares, then London etc.)

If they do survive, another issue will be that the market will have moved on. Ryanair and others will have expanded on routes that Norwegian has a big presence on pre-corona.

The presentation is propaganda as well. They are really trying to tell the story that they would have been profitable i 2020, with their budget figures... They haven't had a single profitable year, compare that to Easyjet or Ryanair..

Bad business's should not be saved by taxpayers, and it has been out in the industry for years and months that Norwegian was in trouble.


Will be interesting to see what becomes of Oslo if Norwegian goes bankrupt. Maybe Wizz Air will rush in to fill the short-haul void or maybe someone else like SK or U2 would?


What do you mean by void? Olso is already a big SAS hub.


Void in the sense of the unserved market that was once served by DY.
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:41 pm

Does anyone know when we can expect SAS to resume some flights within Europe? Specifically LHR?
 
a350lover
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:09 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
Does anyone know when we can expect SAS to resume some flights within Europe? Specifically LHR?


First flights on sale for May

18th of May: CPH-LHR
4th of May: ARN-LHR
18th of May: OSL-LHR
 
User avatar
QuawerAir
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:44 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:20 pm

TG has filed the preliminary S21 international schedule. CPH and ARN remain daily with B777-300ER but OSL will be served 5x weekly with B787-9.

Routesonline
Last edited by QuawerAir on Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ATL, AYT, FRA, FUE, HEL, JFK, LCA, LHR, MUC | AY, BA, DL, FH, LH, LO | A320, A321, A333, 752, 764, 772, 788
The word "Quawer" means nothing but it looks great.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4904
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:21 pm

a350lover wrote:
seansasLCY wrote:
Does anyone know when we can expect SAS to resume some flights within Europe? Specifically LHR?


First flights on sale for May

18th of May: CPH-LHR
4th of May: ARN-LHR
18th of May: OSL-LHR


That doesn't mean they will start it by then. SAS seems to only cancel flights a few week ahead
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 896
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:31 pm

Three weeks ago, BRA requested a debt restructuring while also laying off much of their staff. If the debt resturing is agreed, maybe BRA will restart
Has a date been set for a decision on this debt restructuring ? I'm assuming that as Sweden hasn't gone for a super-strict lockdown, the courts are still largely functioning. If Norwegian can set a date for their debt-for-equity swap decision, the BRA debt restructuring can't be delayed forever...
 
User avatar
hvusslax
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:45 pm

Icelandair lays off 2000 of its staff. That's the majority of the remaining staff although I don't know exactly how many remain.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 1002
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:46 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Three weeks ago, BRA requested a debt restructuring while also laying off much of their staff. If the debt resturing is agreed, maybe BRA will restart
Has a date been set for a decision on this debt restructuring ? I'm assuming that as Sweden hasn't gone for a super-strict lockdown, the courts are still largely functioning. If Norwegian can set a date for their debt-for-equity swap decision, the BRA debt restructuring can't be delayed forever...


It was approved quite quickly and the court has approved a reconstructor that is now looking at company (a process that can take some time).
 
minilinde
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:16 am

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:05 pm

Someone83 wrote:
a350lover wrote:
seansasLCY wrote:
Does anyone know when we can expect SAS to resume some flights within Europe? Specifically LHR?


First flights on sale for May

18th of May: CPH-LHR
4th of May: ARN-LHR
18th of May: OSL-LHR


That doesn't mean they will start it by then. SAS seems to only cancel flights a few week ahead


The tactic seems to have changed. Not all routes are for sale in that period, indicating that LHR will be served in some capacity from 18 may, all else being equal
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
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hvusslax
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:35 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:00 pm

The layoffs of 2000 employees at Icelandair include 421 pilots, 897 cabin crew and 133 mechanics.

After these layoffs (if they all come to effect after a three month notice period) Icelandair will employ a total of 26 pilots and 43 cabin crew and even most of the remaining staff are working reduced hours.
 
User avatar
adambrau
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:44 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 3:30 pm

Norwegian Bondholders voted no to restructuring. Gonna keep working through weekend. AGM is Monday and they have to get the creditors on board too. Not good but hope for a miracle.

https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/he ... s-continue
JFK Friendly
 
Bostrom
Posts: 1002
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Nordic Aviation - 2020

Fri May 01, 2020 5:21 pm

adambrau wrote:
Norwegian Bondholders voted no to restructuring. Gonna keep working through weekend. AGM is Monday and they have to get the creditors on board too. Not good but hope for a miracle.

https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/he ... s-continue


According to Norwegian media it was close, so they will continue the talks over the weekend.

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