PHXWRLD
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American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:04 am

It’s almost 2020, so let’s get the American Airlines Network Thread started!

Here’s what I could see for each hub in 2020:

DFW: Continued domestic expansion, 1000 flights?
CLT: More Midwest and maybe new west coast flights?
MIA: Minimal growth until the MAX gets back in the air.
ORD: More regional growth to fight off UA, maybe a few new seasonal Europe routes announced for 2021.
NYC: I read that AA is finally actually doing well in NYC, so maybe they will stop cutting JFK? Some slot squatting routes like RIC and CLE will probably go though.
PHL: Continuing to optimize the 6 bank structure that seems to be working. Some new EU routes announced for S21. Also, a dark horse potential route for Philly that I keep hearing about is DEL.
PHX: Stagnant, more 321s replacing 757s.
LAX: More Midwest routes, ICN?
DCA: Sizable growth in seats due to new terminal opening.

Please post your thoughts below!
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:20 am

Currently set to launch it 2020:
DFW-HND/AKL/TLV
PHL-CMN
LAX-CHC
ORD-KRK/BUD/PRG

Set to cut in 2020:
MIA-COR
ORD-NRT

What I’d like to see:

DFW-BCN/HEL/ATH/KIX/NGO/TPE/BOM/DEL/CMN/BNE, possibly MEL but likely a QF route.
PHL-HEL/NRT/RAK/CPT/WAW/NAP/AGP/NAP
ORD-DBV/WAW/TXL
PHX-CDG/MAD/FRA/NRT/SYD (yes).
MIA-NRT & more secondary South America
LAX-TPE/MEL/BNE
CLT-LIS/AMS and more will likely come with the XLR.
JFK-DBV

Will these happen? Doubtful.

Expecting more 2020 expansion from AUS/BOS to compete with Delta and more South American flying to cover the LATAM loss. Good luck to AA in 2020 with the new QF JV, return to TLV, and entrance into Africa!
Last edited by Ishrion on Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
PHXWRLD
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:29 am

As much as I wish that PHX would get those international routes, Doug Parker seems content neglecting his original hub.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:38 am

PHXWRLD wrote:
As much as I wish that PHX would get those international routes, Doug Parker seems content neglecting his original hub.


Never really thought about it, but does DP have authority over routes? It seems to be mainly Vasu doing the networking.

And... for what it’s worth, PHX has not been neglected lately with the addition of new Midwest markets, AA’s first intercontinental route to LHR, and domestic 788, 789, and 772 service.
 
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:40 am

Ishrion wrote:
PHXWRLD wrote:
As much as I wish that PHX would get those international routes, Doug Parker seems content neglecting his original hub.


Never really thought about it, but does DP have authority over routes? It seems to be mainly Vasu doing the networking.

And... for what it’s worth, PHX has not been neglected lately with the addition of new Midwest markets, AA’s first intercontinental route to LHR, and domestic 788, 789, and 772 service.


True, but those domestic widebodies are because in the winter they have nowhere better to put them. Same reason CUN gets them.
 
gameface
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:56 am

I think it is good for AA to lauch a new route from JFK to PKX. Normally AA will let its partners to serve in JFK's international routes. However, AA's partner in China, CZ is uable to lauch a PKX-USA route due to current aviation agreements and some unspoken rules of CAAC. Since CZ and AA will move to PKX in Beijing, there will be more slots and a bigger connection network for them.
 
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:16 am

PHXWRLD wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
PHXWRLD wrote:
As much as I wish that PHX would get those international routes, Doug Parker seems content neglecting his original hub.


Never really thought about it, but does DP have authority over routes? It seems to be mainly Vasu doing the networking.

And... for what it’s worth, PHX has not been neglected lately with the addition of new Midwest markets, AA’s first intercontinental route to LHR, and domestic 788, 789, and 772 service.


True, but those domestic widebodies are because in the winter they have nowhere better to put them. Same reason CUN gets them.


Well, hopefully with the QF JV, AA can utilize at least few of those frames to Australia and New Zealand in winter time from 2020, and maybe upgauge some of the LATAM routes now AA has to fight the market on its own.
 
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:09 am

Here is the link to the 2019 thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1412149&p=21892801#p21892801
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jplatts
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:38 am

PHXWRLD wrote:
DFW: Continued domestic expansion, 1000 flights?


DFW-ALB, DFW-CHO, DFW-PVD, DFW-ROC, DFW-AVP, and DFW-SYR nonstop service could be added by AA out of DFW with ALB, CHO, PVD, ROC, AVP, and SYR being the top destinations traveled to from DFW that aren't currently served nonstop from DFW or DAL.

PHXWRLD wrote:
CLT: More Midwest and maybe new west coast flights?


While AA already serves most of the major West Coast destinations nonstop from CLT, AA adding CLT-ONT and CLT-SNA nonstop service are possibilities.

AA adding CLT-HNL nonstop service is a possibility with AA being the only US3 carrier that doesn't serve any of its East Coast hubs nonstop from Hawaii and with AA being able to offer connections onto CLT-HNL from destinations in the Southeast, Mid-Atlantic, and Northeast if CLT-HNL is added by AA.

If additional demand to the West Coast is there out of CLT, DL could also add CLT-LAX nonstop service, UA could also add CLT-SFO nonstop service, and AS could also add CLT-SEA nonstop service in order to provide competition on CLT to West Coast nonstop service with AA currently being the only airline that has nonstop service to the West Coast out of CLT.

PHXWRLD wrote:
MIA: Minimal growth until the MAX gets back in the air.


While AA already serves most of the major domestic destinations nonstop out of MIA, AA could add nonstop service to MKE, PDX, SMF, SLC, and TUL out of MIA.

PHXWRLD wrote:
PHX: Stagnant, more 321s replacing 757s.


While AA already has nonstop service out of PHX to most of the destinations that WN serves nonstop from PHX, there are a few more routes such as PHX-BUF, PHX-LIT, PHX-SDF, PHX-BNA, and PHX-TUL that could be added by AA in order to better compete against WN in the PHX market.

PHXWRLD wrote:
LAX: More Midwest routes, ICN?


I agree that AA adding LAX-CVG, LAX-CLE, and LAX-MKE nonstop service are possibilities due to CVG, CLE, and MKE being three of the top domestic destinations that AA doesn't currently serve nonstop from LAX.
 
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chepos
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American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:43 am

I had not seen it mentioned in the 2019 thread, but DFW-AMS will get the 789 in September 2020. Per routes online.


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chepos
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American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:51 am

I can guarantee one thing for 2020, we will continue to see AA at JFK threads and our panel of experts analyze what AA should do with it’s slot portfolio at JFK. If a route gets added it will be considered slot squatting, if a route gets cut it is the end of times for AA at JFK and LGA (we tend to be dramatic), slots should get sold to (whomever your favorite carrier is).


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Cointrin330
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:13 pm

I'd love ti see AA add some service at JFK to Latin America to offset the departure of LATAM from OW, like LIM, but that's unlikely until the A321XLR is on property. If Brazil's economy improves, then the potential is there for a second daily JFK-GRU, again to offset LATAM leaving OW, but beyond that, I'm not so sure we will see a whole lot of additions at JFK until the MAX crisis is resolved as assets have been pulled from JFK to compensate for the absence of the MAX.
 
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:29 pm

AA had a great 2019 in PHX with new year around service to LHR, RDU, RAP, CUU & COS and seasonal service to MSY, CID, ICT, FAR, CVG (FLL only 3 weeks).

COS was originally planned as seasonally however its been extended to 2-3 daily on CRJ + mainline depending on the time of year

I would like to see AA extend the recently added seasonal service to year around and Mexico service (MTY, DGO, ACA), and domestic service to BNA, BIL, BZN, BIS, TUL, SDF, LIT.

As far as Intercontinental, I doubt AA will add anything new to PHX. I would prefer to see AF, KL & JL tails for some diversity in the airport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:19 pm

Ishrion wrote:
What I’d like to see:

PHX-CDG/MAD/FRA/NRT/SYD (yes). :rotfl:

Will these happen? Doubtful. :checkmark:


In particular: FRA no way with DE already established and now EW to jump into the fray; SYD no, not ever ever ever ever!
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Buddys747
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:32 pm

jplatts wrote:
PHXWRLD wrote:
DFW: Continued domestic expansion, 1000 flights?


DFW-ALB, DFW-CHO, DFW-PVD, DFW-ROC, DFW-AVP, and DFW-SYR nonstop service could be added by AA out of DFW with ALB, CHO, PVD, ROC, AVP, and SYR being the top destinations traveled to from DFW that aren't currently served nonstop from DFW or DAL

I could see a few of those like ALB, ROC and SYR. Not so sure about AVP, while that would be great, not sure there’s enough demand for an E-175. That would probably be the aircraft to use. I’m thinking for now they’ll just keep funneled traffic thru CLT. I’d think ABE would get DFW service before Scranton.
 
PHXWRLD
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:07 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
What I’d like to see:

PHX-CDG/MAD/FRA/NRT/SYD (yes). :rotfl:

Will these happen? Doubtful. :checkmark:


In particular: FRA no way with DE already established and now EW to jump into the fray; SYD no, not ever ever ever ever!


I think MAD or CDG could happen though. They definitely should, but Doug has it in for us.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:47 pm

PHXWRLD wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
What I’d like to see:

PHX-CDG/MAD/FRA/NRT/SYD (yes). :rotfl:

Will these happen? Doubtful. :checkmark:


In particular: FRA no way with DE already established and now EW to jump into the fray; SYD no, not ever ever ever ever!


I think MAD or CDG could happen though. They definitely should, but Doug has it in for us.


Highly unlikely AA would start MAD or CDG from PHX any time soon. The DFW routes to these cities are what serves the PHX market to each. These would be long stage length and the business traffic probably isn't there. When AA is done replacing the 763s with 787s and has some spare Dreamliners, then maybe, but I would not hold my breath. SYD, absolutely not going to happen from PHX.
 
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:18 pm

Given that PHX-Europe routes overfly other AA hubs, it’s unlikely to see much in the way of additional destinations added.

There really doesn’t appear to be the premium demand or overall volume at good yields to justify additional flights outside of LHR out of PHX.
 
austwin
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:40 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
AA had a great 2019 in PHX with new year around service to LHR, RDU, RAP, CUU & COS and seasonal service to MSY, CID, ICT, FAR, CVG (FLL only 3 weeks).


As far as Intercontinental, I doubt AA will add anything new to PHX. I would prefer to see AF, KL & JL tails for some diversity in the airport



Me too. It's great to have two dominant carriers at the airport but let's get some international flavor at the international airport.
 
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:43 pm

This is a wish, but I’d love to see AA bring back the second CDG flight from JFK, with the evening return from CDG back to New York. It was a popular flight with business travelers, and when they changed the return flight to early afternoon, all the business passengers were lost to AF. It would be a perfect route for a 787, although there are no plans for the 787 to come to NYC in the near future. The rumor is that the sole remaining flight is so profitable on the 777, a second flight is warranted. But if they put it on the A321XLR, then they may as well forget it. The New York business travelers hated the 757 on the route.
 
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:47 pm

Whatever they do in 2020, they would be best served to continue flying into pek rather than pkx. Connection itinerary to secondary Chinese cities are about as low yielding as they get. Pek is far and away the preferred airport there. Delta is imo making a huge mistake moving it's operation there. Aa should not do the same.
 
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:55 pm

DL is moving to PKX because their partner China Eastern is moving their hub there too. This is very important for regional cities and south china (CAN/SZX). AA has a interior China code-share with China Southern. They will probably move when they move.
 
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:58 pm

tphuang wrote:
Whatever they do in 2020, they would be best served to continue flying into pek rather than pkx. Connection itinerary to secondary Chinese cities are about as low yielding as they get. Pek is far and away the preferred airport there. Delta is imo making a huge mistake moving it's operation there. Aa should not do the same.


China Eastern moved to Daxing. DL moved to Daxing. Do you think AA would keep significant ops at NRT if JAL moved everything to Haneda? A carrier can price PKX itins quite independently of connecting USA-PKX-xxx itins.
 
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:17 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
PHXWRLD wrote:
cathay747 wrote:

In particular: FRA no way with DE already established and now EW to jump into the fray; SYD no, not ever ever ever ever!


I think MAD or CDG could happen though. They definitely should, but Doug has it in for us.


Highly unlikely AA would start MAD or CDG from PHX any time soon. The DFW routes to these cities are what serves the PHX market to each. These would be long stage length and the business traffic probably isn't there. When AA is done replacing the 763s with 787s and has some spare Dreamliners, then maybe, but I would not hold my breath. SYD, absolutely not going to happen from PHX.


Doug Parker doesn't "have it in for us", nor does he make the decisions on where AA is going to fly; they also won't fly to where folks on here think that they "should"...why do you think that AA "should" fly PHX-MAD or PHX-CDG?? Neither MAD nor CDG will happen for the very reason Cointrin330 points out...there isn't enough of a local market for it, particularly premium traffic (business class). People here on a.net need to temper their personal wish-lists with economic reality. It's enough of a miracle that LHR works for both BA and now AA, and a large reason for that is the BA network beyond LHR which AA wouldn't have at CDG. As for MAD...even though they'd have the IB network beyond MAD, there's very little that isn't already covered by LHR...redundant is the term here. And yeah...SYD is a drug-induced fantasy. We'll be lucky if we ever get a TYO service, and if we ever do, my money is on it being done by JL vs. AA.
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:19 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
Given that PHX-Europe routes overfly other AA hubs, it’s unlikely to see much in the way of additional destinations added.

There really doesn’t appear to be the premium demand or overall volume at good yields to justify additional flights outside of LHR out of PHX.


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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:23 pm

x1234 wrote:
DL is moving to PKX because their partner China Eastern is moving their hub there too. This is very important for regional cities and south china (CAN/SZX). AA has a interior China code-share with China Southern. They will probably move when they move.


Exactly. Both DL and AA will operate at whichever airport their domestic Chinese code-share partners are located at for a truly obvious reason.
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CX773W
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:32 pm

How about HKG from one of CLT, PHL or PHX?
 
tphuang
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:54 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Whatever they do in 2020, they would be best served to continue flying into pek rather than pkx. Connection itinerary to secondary Chinese cities are about as low yielding as they get. Pek is far and away the preferred airport there. Delta is imo making a huge mistake moving it's operation there. Aa should not do the same.


China Eastern moved to Daxing. DL moved to Daxing. Do you think AA would keep significant ops at NRT if JAL moved everything to Haneda? A carrier can price PKX itins quite independently of connecting USA-PKX-xxx itins.


HND is the preferred airport. The question would be if JAL moved everything to NRT, should AA stay at HND? I would say they should.

The two airports that AA serves to PEK right now are DFW and LAX. DFW requires a lot of connection from Latin america to be profitable. Do you think those people care about connection onward from PKX or do they care about getting to the preferred airport in PEK. Aside from people that live in south part of Beijing, who else want to fly into PKX?

So this we already know.
connection itinerary to secondary chinese cities is really low yielding.
PEK is going to be a higher yielding airport in the immediat future vs PKX.

So moving to PKX would mean that you are going to fill the seats that you can't fill directly with some really low yielding traffic.

Brilliant move.
 
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chepos
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:02 pm

tphuang wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Whatever they do in 2020, they would be best served to continue flying into pek rather than pkx. Connection itinerary to secondary Chinese cities are about as low yielding as they get. Pek is far and away the preferred airport there. Delta is imo making a huge mistake moving it's operation there. Aa should not do the same.


China Eastern moved to Daxing. DL moved to Daxing. Do you think AA would keep significant ops at NRT if JAL moved everything to Haneda? A carrier can price PKX itins quite independently of connecting USA-PKX-xxx itins.


HND is the preferred airport. The question would be if JAL moved everything to NRT, should AA stay at HND? I would say they should.

The two airports that AA serves to PEK right now are DFW and LAX. DFW requires a lot of connection from Latin america to be profitable. Do you think those people care about connection onward from PKX or do they care about getting to the preferred airport in PEK. Aside from people that live in south part of Beijing, who else want to fly into PKX?

So this we already know.
connection itinerary to secondary chinese cities is really low yielding.
PEK is going to be a higher yielding airport in the immediat future vs PKX.

So moving to PKX would mean that you are going to fill the seats that you can't fill directly with some really low yielding traffic.

Brilliant move.


If your Chinese partner (in this case CZ) moves it’s Beijing hub to PKX it would make sense to move your (AA’s) operation to said airport. All your connections are going to be at PKX.


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chepos
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:05 pm

CX773W wrote:
How about HKG from one of CLT, PHL or PHX?


Doubtful.


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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:34 pm

jplatts wrote:
While AA already serves most of the major West Coast destinations nonstop from CLT, AA adding CLT-ONT and CLT-SNA nonstop service are possibilities.

AA adding CLT-HNL nonstop service is a possibility with AA being the only US3 carrier that doesn't serve any of its East Coast hubs nonstop from Hawaii and with AA being able to offer connections onto CLT-HNL from destinations in the Southeast, Mid-Atlantic, and Northeast if CLT-HNL is added by AA.

If additional demand to the West Coast is there out of CLT, DL could also add CLT-LAX nonstop service, UA could also add CLT-SFO nonstop service, and AS could also add CLT-SEA nonstop service in order to provide competition on CLT to West Coast nonstop service with AA currently being the only airline that has nonstop service to the West Coast out of CLT.

I doubt we will see CLT-ONT anytime soon. CLT-SNA would most likely work, but would require slots. AA attempted CLT-SJC seasonally and lasted two seasons (used an A320/738/A321) but then didn't return this summer. My understanding was that while the load was good, the yields weren't high as AA would have liked. I could see them attempting another go at it.

They tried CLT-ABQ/TUS (TUS being attempted twice) and they all failed, again apparently passenger load was good but yields were terrible.

CLT-MTJ was attempted but failed as well. US used to do CLT-EGE and AA recently brought back PHL-EGE, I could see CLT-EGE working.

ATW, COU, GRB, LAN, BQK, VLD, MLU, LFT, GTR, ISP, CSG, AHN all seem like good candidates to get service from CLT.

I think AA could make CLT-HNL work seasonally on an A332. I can't remember the specific reason for the failure of the route when US attempted it, again I think it was due to horrible yields. I know the ancient 762s used on the route had a lot of trouble making it Westbound, and would often have to make a fuel stop in PHX or LAX. AA is the only carrier that essentially requires a "double-connection" to reach Hawaii from several East Coast markets (ALB/PVD, for example) when ORD-HNL (Seasonal) is not operating to reach Hawaii. As you mentioned, AA is the only carrier to not serve HNL from any of their East Coast hubs.

Internationally I cannot see anything being added, although I have heard rumors of another YUL frequency. AA recently resumed mainline on CLT-YYZ. I'm surprised CLT did not get any seasonal schedule extensions in the last round of TATL expansion. I thought that CLT-MAD would have gone year round by now. I am also surprised CLT-CDG did not resume year-round service. US ran the route for 3 or 4 years flying the route three or four times weekly in the winter. Given AA's stronger brand presence in CDG, I figured the route would have come back by now. Ditto for an extension for CLT-FCO, which US used to run until New Years. Then again, FCO performance is garbage outside of NYC/MIA in the Winter.
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PVD757
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:41 pm

Hoping AA decides to make a bit of a strategic move at PVD by adding MIA and DFW. By offering a more robust route portfolio they could keep a percentage of area passengers from driving to BOS and getting on other carriers.
 
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chepos
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:25 pm

USAirALB wrote:
jplatts wrote:
While AA already serves most of the major West Coast destinations nonstop from CLT, AA adding CLT-ONT and CLT-SNA nonstop service are possibilities.

AA adding CLT-HNL nonstop service is a possibility with AA being the only US3 carrier that doesn't serve any of its East Coast hubs nonstop from Hawaii and with AA being able to offer connections onto CLT-HNL from destinations in the Southeast, Mid-Atlantic, and Northeast if CLT-HNL is added by AA.

If additional demand to the West Coast is there out of CLT, DL could also add CLT-LAX nonstop service, UA could also add CLT-SFO nonstop service, and AS could also add CLT-SEA nonstop service in order to provide competition on CLT to West Coast nonstop service with AA currently being the only airline that has nonstop service to the West Coast out of CLT.

I doubt we will see CLT-ONT anytime soon. CLT-SNA would most likely work, but would require slots. AA attempted CLT-SJC seasonally and lasted two seasons (used an A320/738/A321) but then didn't return this summer. My understanding was that while the load was good, the yields weren't high as AA would have liked. I could see them attempting another go at it.

They tried CLT-ABQ/TUS (TUS being attempted twice) and they all failed, again apparently passenger load was good but yields were terrible.

CLT-MTJ was attempted but failed as well. US used to do CLT-EGE and AA recently brought back PHL-EGE, I could see CLT-EGE working.

ATW, COU, GRB, LAN, BQK, VLD, MLU, LFT, GTR, ISP, CSG, AHN all seem like good candidates to get service from CLT.

I think AA could make CLT-HNL work seasonally on an A332. I can't remember the specific reason for the failure of the route when US attempted it, again I think it was due to horrible yields. I know the ancient 762s used on the route had a lot of trouble making it Westbound, and would often have to make a fuel stop in PHX or LAX. AA is the only carrier that essentially requires a "double-connection" to reach Hawaii from several East Coast markets (ALB/PVD, for example) when ORD-HNL (Seasonal) is not operating to reach Hawaii. As you mentioned, AA is the only carrier to not serve HNL from any of their East Coast hubs.

Internationally I cannot see anything being added, although I have heard rumors of another YUL frequency. AA recently resumed mainline on CLT-YYZ. I'm surprised CLT did not get any seasonal schedule extensions in the last round of TATL expansion. I thought that CLT-MAD would have gone year round by now. I am also surprised CLT-CDG did not resume year-round service. US ran the route for 3 or 4 years flying the route three or four times weekly in the winter. Given AA's stronger brand presence in CDG, I figured the route would have come back by now. Ditto for an extension for CLT-FCO, which US used to run until New Years. Then again, FCO performance is garbage outside of NYC/MIA in the Winter.


The equipment type sure did not help CLT-HNl, the flight more often than not had to stop in PHX to refuel. The 787 would be the ideal equipment, that being said CLT does not see that equipment type and I am sure they can use the 787 better at another location. The 330 seems like it may be too much lift.

CLT-SJC might have been a victim of the MAX aircraft grounding. This summer with the airline facing an aircraft shortage, marginal routes saw the axe.



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AirFiero
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:41 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I doubt we will see CLT-ONT anytime soon. CLT-SNA would most likely work, but would require slots. AA attempted CLT-SJC seasonally and lasted two seasons (used an A320/738/A321) but then didn't return this summer. My understanding was that while the load was good, the yields weren't high as AA would have liked. I could see them attempting another go at it.


I wondered why they didn’t bring SJC-CLT back. I think it ran summer seasonally for 3 years, each year they extended the seasonal period by a month or so until the last time when it was May-October. It sure looked like it was dong well, maybe even enough to go year round. I’d sure like to see it return.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:23 pm

Has AA ever tried CLT-YVR seasonally? Seems like a good add once the MAX returns.
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:25 pm

The A332 would be a great option for HNL vs the 762 that was previously operated. It should have no issues westbound even with strong winter headwinds and isn't overly premium which is good for leisure destinations. The amount of traffic funneled through CLT 12 years ago as US and today as AA there has to be enough demand for a seasonal flight. Maybe instead of flying the A332 to MCO it could fly a 3 week test around Christmas 2020.
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:01 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Has AA ever tried CLT-YVR seasonally? Seems like a good add once the MAX returns.

No. They did PHL-YVR on an A319 in Summer 2009. It only lasted one season. I agree though, I could see it being attempted during July/August on an A319.
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:05 pm

USAirALB wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Has AA ever tried CLT-YVR seasonally? Seems like a good add once the MAX returns.

No. They did PHL-YVR on an A319 in Summer 2009. It only lasted one season. I agree though, I could see it being attempted during July/August on an A319.


Thanks. Interesting that they tried it at a time when the economy was collapsing and haven't returned to it since.
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:08 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Has AA ever tried CLT-YVR seasonally? Seems like a good add once the MAX returns.

No. They did PHL-YVR on an A319 in Summer 2009. It only lasted one season. I agree though, I could see it being attempted during July/August on an A319.


Thanks. Interesting that they tried it at a time when the economy was collapsing and haven't returned to it since.

Yeah the timing of the service was quite bizarre. It might have been Summer 2008 when they attempted the service-I can't remember but it was either 2008/2009. YVR (as well as travel to Alaska/Alaskan cruises) has really taken off within the 5 years or so, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them make another go of it, from CLT or PHL.

They flew PHL-ANC for a couple of seasons as well with an 752.
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OKCDCA
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:22 pm

BA744PHX wrote:

COS was originally planned as seasonally however its been extended to 2-3 daily on CRJ + mainline depending on the time of year

I’d love to see AA’s growth at COS continue with at least a summer seasonal CLT flight. Our area continues to grow at a rapid pace and is becoming quite the outdoor recreational paradise in the summer.

Out of DFW, I’m curious if PUB has been a consideration? That’s another growing area here in CO but I’m guessing its proximity to COS makes it tough to justify. Maybe could support a daily ERJ or two?
 
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chepos
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:38 am

USAirALB wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
No. They did PHL-YVR on an A319 in Summer 2009. It only lasted one season. I agree though, I could see it being attempted during July/August on an A319.


Thanks. Interesting that they tried it at a time when the economy was collapsing and haven't returned to it since.

Yeah the timing of the service was quite bizarre. It might have been Summer 2008 when they attempted the service-I can't remember but it was either 2008/2009. YVR (as well as travel to Alaska/Alaskan cruises) has really taken off within the 5 years or so, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them make another go of it, from CLT or PHL.

They flew PHL-ANC for a couple of seasons as well with an 752.


PHL ANC was short lived, it operated I believe in the summer of 2010 with an Envoy configured 757.


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Nicknuzzii
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:04 am

With DFW growing to 900 flights a day in 2019 and CLT planned to grow in 2020 along with DCA in 2021 (mostly just larger aircraft I assume), when will be PHL’s turn to go to say 450 or 500?
 
nomorerjs
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:04 am

While DFW is a great hub (only ATL is better for DL), let’s be realistic on some international flights:

ATH: Only served seasonal from EWR / JFK / PHL / ORD. This is a pipe dream.

NGO: Toyota alone will not fill this route. LAX didn’t have NGO with 10x the O&D and Toyota.

KIX: ORD has significantly more traffic (and premium business traffic) and AA / JL, NH / UA don’t fly this route.

TPE: IAH works (barely due to * connections at both ends.

HEL: Limited local market. AA gave ORD to AY who see
A to be making this work 9 months a year.

BRU and ZRH seem more realistic, but not really.

BCN is the one route that could work, but AA has been focused on MAD from DFW.

CLT / PHL / PHX to Asia: Give it up. AA ceded ORD-NRT to JL and NH / UA. If AA can’t make this large premium O&D route work, good luck on other routes with 1/5 of the O&D and premium traffic.

ORD: AA’s found a sweet spot to Seasonal Europe routes, seasonal Caribbean (and GUA) and mid sized markets. DBV and a few others could work. The 321-XLR could be a beast and beat UA. Gave up Asia to DFW and LAX and can’t make MEX and Germany work.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:43 am

nomorerjs wrote:
CLT / PHL / PHX to Asia: Give it up. AA ceded ORD-NRT to JL and NH / UA. If AA can’t make this large premium O&D route work, good luck on other routes with 1/5 of the O&D and premium traffic.

ORD: AA’s found a sweet spot to Seasonal Europe routes, seasonal Caribbean (and GUA) and mid sized markets. DBV and a few others could work. The 321-XLR could be a beast and beat UA. Gave up Asia to DFW and LAX and can’t make MEX and Germany work.


I would not be so fast to dismiss PHL-NRT or PHX-NRT. There is currently -no- nonstop service on any carrier on these city pairs. ORD has JL, NH and UA non stop.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:44 am

nomorerjs wrote:
While DFW is a great hub (only ATL is better for DL), let’s be realistic on some international flights:

ATH: Only served seasonal from EWR / JFK / PHL / ORD. This is a pipe dream.

NGO: Toyota alone will not fill this route. LAX didn’t have NGO with 10x the O&D and Toyota.

KIX: ORD has significantly more traffic (and premium business traffic) and AA / JL, NH / UA don’t fly this route.

TPE: IAH works (barely due to * connections at both ends.

HEL: Limited local market. AA gave ORD to AY who see
A to be making this work 9 months a year.

BRU and ZRH seem more realistic, but not really.

BCN is the one route that could work, but AA has been focused on MAD from DFW.

CLT / PHL / PHX to Asia: Give it up. AA ceded ORD-NRT to JL and NH / UA. If AA can’t make this large premium O&D route work, good luck on other routes with 1/5 of the O&D and premium traffic.

ORD: AA’s found a sweet spot to Seasonal Europe routes, seasonal Caribbean (and GUA) and mid sized markets. DBV and a few others could work. The 321-XLR could be a beast and beat UA. Gave up Asia to DFW and LAX and can’t make MEX and Germany work.


I think PHL-NRT is very possible. What you don’t take into account is competition. UA, ANA, JAL and AA all fly from ORD to Japan but no one currently flies from PHL to anywhere in Asia (Qatar doesn’t really count). With a single flight a day to NRT the demand would be there and anything that is left open would be able to be filled with connections who AA would then pass onto JAL. For example, the 59,000 Chinese who visit PHL each year...
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:26 am

nomorerjs wrote:
While DFW is a great hub (only ATL is better for DL), let’s be realistic on some international flights:

ATH: Only served seasonal from EWR / JFK / PHL / ORD. This is a pipe dream.

NGO: Toyota alone will not fill this route. LAX didn’t have NGO with 10x the O&D and Toyota.

KIX: ORD has significantly more traffic (and premium business traffic) and AA / JL, NH / UA don’t fly this route.

TPE: IAH works (barely due to * connections at both ends.

HEL: Limited local market. AA gave ORD to AY who see
A to be making this work 9 months a year.

BRU and ZRH seem more realistic, but not really.

BCN is the one route that could work, but AA has been focused on MAD from DFW.

CLT / PHL / PHX to Asia: Give it up. AA ceded ORD-NRT to JL and NH / UA. If AA can’t make this large premium O&D route work, good luck on other routes with 1/5 of the O&D and premium traffic.

ORD: AA’s found a sweet spot to Seasonal Europe routes, seasonal Caribbean (and GUA) and mid sized markets. DBV and a few others could work. The 321-XLR could be a beast and beat UA. Gave up Asia to DFW and LAX and can’t make MEX and Germany work.


Be honest.

Would you have expected to see AA add PHL-PRG/BUD/TXL/DBV/BLQ/CMN, ORD-PRG/KRK/BUD, and LAX-CHC a few years ago, or even last year?
 
rising
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:41 am

BA744PHX wrote:

I would like to see AA extend the recently added seasonal service to year around and Mexico service (MTY, DGO, ACA), and domestic service to BNA, BIL, BZN, BIS, TUL, SDF, LIT.



ACA? I would assume anyone daring to take that trip is doing it for essential business only.
If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
 
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chepos
Posts: 7076
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:19 am

Ishrion wrote:
nomorerjs wrote:
While DFW is a great hub (only ATL is better for DL), let’s be realistic on some international flights:

ATH: Only served seasonal from EWR / JFK / PHL / ORD. This is a pipe dream.

NGO: Toyota alone will not fill this route. LAX didn’t have NGO with 10x the O&D and Toyota.

KIX: ORD has significantly more traffic (and premium business traffic) and AA / JL, NH / UA don’t fly this route.

TPE: IAH works (barely due to * connections at both ends.

HEL: Limited local market. AA gave ORD to AY who see
A to be making this work 9 months a year.

BRU and ZRH seem more realistic, but not really.

BCN is the one route that could work, but AA has been focused on MAD from DFW.

CLT / PHL / PHX to Asia: Give it up. AA ceded ORD-NRT to JL and NH / UA. If AA can’t make this large premium O&D route work, good luck on other routes with 1/5 of the O&D and premium traffic.

ORD: AA’s found a sweet spot to Seasonal Europe routes, seasonal Caribbean (and GUA) and mid sized markets. DBV and a few others could work. The 321-XLR could be a beast and beat UA. Gave up Asia to DFW and LAX and can’t make MEX and Germany work.


Be honest.

Would you have expected to see AA add PHL-PRG/BUD/TXL/DBV/BLQ/CMN, ORD-PRG/KRK/BUD, and LAX-CHC a few years ago, or even last year?


I’ll add DFW-FCO/AMS which when both were announced many on Airliners.net frowned upon. Particularly out of DFW and PHL AA has gotten creative and has launched some routes which were completely unexpected. While a route like HEL has little local traffic it would be a hub to hub route, not saying it will happen but one never knows. In reality, none of us really have no clue what routes are under consideration.


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Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:00 am

AA operated the final ORD-NRT flight today on their metal.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/aa153
 
PHXWRLD
Topic Author
Posts: 48
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:35 am

Ishrion wrote:
AA operated the final ORD-NRT flight today on their metal.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/aa153


Sad, hopefully they will start PHX-NRT to compensate.

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