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MAH4546
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Re: AA's PHX Hub in Jeapor

Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:45 am

MrPeanut wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
MrPeanut wrote:

You do not understand the enormity of the situation if you believe the hub remains. This is now about survival for the airlines. The issue we are faced with is beyond enormous. This is not about prestige or trying new strategies (TPAC hub). This is about stopping the hemorrhage that lies in front of us.

All money losing routes will be cut. They no longer can run a money losing hub like LAX because, unlike previous years, the rest of the network is no longer profitable and unable to offset money losing hubs. LAX is now reduced to 31 flights. Everything you mentioned above no longer applies. It is irrelevant. The network you saw in January 2020 or in 2019 will look significantly different in a few months. Please stop trying to justify your position. The environment that you saw previously no longer exists.

If this still doesn’t make sense to you, then you have no clue of what is going on.


One can fully grasp the enormity of the situation and conclude that LAX’s largest airline and largest hub operation is not going to be shut down.

AA’s LAX operation in May will be larger than UA’s EWR hub operation or its own DCA operation. Those aren’t closing either.

You act like LAX was a money pit which is blatantly false.


The hub lost money during great economic times! What do you think is going to happen over the next several years as the industry climbs its way out of this mess? Airlines are fighting for survival and cash right now. Do you honestly believe any airline is going to keep a money losing hub when the entire network is bleeding cash? It’s not going to happen. AA has already closed down the hub in every aspect without actually saying it publicly. You can be in denial all you want but it’s gone. Travel is not going to bottom out until next year. AA will retrench to a few hubs, the rest are gone. This is a different environment now.


You are delusional man. No point discussing further, you don't seem to grasp basic concepts on airline hubs and networks.

Not only will LAX continue to be a hub, but as AA adds back capacity to the West, and needs to limit, I bet AA takes that capacity from PHX (which is going to be down to 22 daily flights on Tuesdays and Saturdays soon!). Bookmark this a year from now.
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Vctony
Posts: 675
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Re: AA's PHX Hub in Jeopardy?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:59 am

MAH4546 wrote:
Vctony wrote:
Honestly, unless we enter the Great Depression the May AA schedule is probably the floor for AA ops at PHX. PHX will essentially be a "focus city" in May. When things recover I don't really see it being scaled down to less than an 80-90 daily departures station with only flights to the other hubs on slow days (Tuesdays and Saturdays) which is what the May schedule has. I don't see the operation getting any smaller than that.


The May schedule for PHX (and other hubs) is way too optimistic. I think it'll shrink down even further.


I'm using the May schedule for PHX as the "floor" as to what the AA may look like in normal times if the hub was downgraded to a "focus city". I agree it may be too optimistic for the current environment.

I don't think AA will completely abandon PHX so the May schedule is an idea of what PHX could look like if AA reduced it to a "focus city".
 
alasizon
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Re: AA's PHX Hub in Jeapor

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:09 am

MAH4546 wrote:
MrPeanut wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

One can fully grasp the enormity of the situation and conclude that LAX’s largest airline and largest hub operation is not going to be shut down.

AA’s LAX operation in May will be larger than UA’s EWR hub operation or its own DCA operation. Those aren’t closing either.

You act like LAX was a money pit which is blatantly false.


The hub lost money during great economic times! What do you think is going to happen over the next several years as the industry climbs its way out of this mess? Airlines are fighting for survival and cash right now. Do you honestly believe any airline is going to keep a money losing hub when the entire network is bleeding cash? It’s not going to happen. AA has already closed down the hub in every aspect without actually saying it publicly. You can be in denial all you want but it’s gone. Travel is not going to bottom out until next year. AA will retrench to a few hubs, the rest are gone. This is a different environment now.


You are delusional man. No point discussing further, you don't seem to grasp basic concepts on airline hubs and networks.

Not only will LAX continue to be a hub, but as AA adds back capacity to the West, and needs to limit, I bet AA takes that capacity from PHX (which is going to be down to 22 daily flights on Tuesdays and Saturdays soon!). Bookmark this a year from now.


Using the benchmark that PHX is down to 22 flights in Tue/Sat is a poor measurement particularly since LAX only has a total of 30 flights every day compared with the 85 that PHX has on the other five days a week.

When demand returns, LAX and PHX aren't going to be competing for the same passengers. LAX is O&D, intra-California and INTL focused while PHX is focused on moving massive domestic connections and connecting the West.
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chepos
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AA's PHX Hub in Jeopardy?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:30 am

Yeah, this thread has kind of derailed itself. Looking at April/May schedules and trying to predict the long term operation at a station is disingenuous.

Let’s put this into perspective, UA will dramatically shrink the EWR, LAX and SFO operation in the coming weeks, we all know those operations are not going stay at this much smaller size for the long run. B6 will shrink it’s NYC footprint, obviously B6 is not staying at 30 flights between EWR/JFK (and dropping LGA) in the long run. Every airline has shrunk the schedule, few people are flying and the airlines need to adapt the schedule to match demand. Even at these reduces schedules there seems to still be a whole lot of overcapacity for the amount of people flying.


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blacksoviet
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Re: AA's PHX Hub in Jeopardy?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:20 am

How many gates did AA lose when Terminal 2 closed? Terminal 2 has been sitting abandoned for over a month.
 
Vctony
Posts: 675
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Re: AA's PHX Hub in Jeopardy?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:37 am

blacksoviet wrote:
How many gates did AA lose when Terminal 2 closed? Terminal 2 has been sitting abandoned for over a month.


AA didn't lose any gates when Terminal 2 closed.

AA, WN along with all international airlines (except AC) use Terminal 4. The Terminal 2 airlines (and AC) moved to T3N (which was renovated and had been closed for about 2 years prior to the move).

WN and the airport are currently constructing an 8 gate expansion of T4 (the S1 concourse).
 
wenders825
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Re: AA's PHX Hub in Jeopardy?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:31 am

jfklganyc wrote:
AA JFK 3 flights

Just wow.

and what about UA at EWR?
 
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chepos
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Re: AA's PHX Hub in Jeopardy?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:39 am

wenders825 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
AA JFK 3 flights

Just wow.

and what about UA at EWR?

He does not have to look very far to wow himself, B6 themselves can’t slash flights fast enough out of JFK for May.


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Miamiairport
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Re: AA's PHX Hub in Jeopardy?

Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:43 pm

I'm assuming the airlines are still planning capacity such that they can honor "social distancing." However, once that gets called off we could see capacity cut even further to enable airlines to go back to the days of a butt in ever seat. The issue of course will be the "fear factor." After 9/11 quite a number of people refused to fly even though the government said it was safe and by all means the stats proved it. But overcoming irrational fear isn't easy. Even more so near 20 years later when media loves to pump up the "fear factor" for ratings.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:25 am

Dallas/Fort Worth to Lima is set to be on the 788 instead of 752 when it returns in August.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-14apr20/
 
Miamiairport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:26 pm

Well one blessing will be far fewer delayed flights and the issues that come from heavily banked flights and/or ATC holds. However if this schedule persists through the summer it's going to be a rough time with thunderstorms. Far fewer flights to re-accommodate flyers on.
 
Corpsnerd09
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:37 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Well one blessing will be far fewer delayed flights and the issues that come from heavily banked flights and/or ATC holds. However if this schedule persists through the summer it's going to be a rough time with thunderstorms. Far fewer flights to re-accommodate flyers on.


Yeah but the usual thunderstorm problems, displaced crews and unavailable aircraft go away with it, there'll be plenty of crews willing to fly and planes waiting around to be used.
 
MrPeanut
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:40 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Well one blessing will be far fewer delayed flights and the issues that come from heavily banked flights and/or ATC holds. However if this schedule persists through the summer it's going to be a rough time with thunderstorms. Far fewer flights to re-accommodate flyers on.


This won't be an issue with advanced bookings in the 20% range.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:01 am

onwFan wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Such sad & depressing figures, but fascinating, especially that the route with the highest L/F is a AA spoke to a UA hub! Wonder why IAH was the highest?? Bizarre (to me).

LAX is not an AA spoke. They call it a hub and they are the largest carrier there. Moreover, you are looking at a handful of passengers more than DFW or CLT. So nothing bizarre about it.

I think he meant that IAH, as the route with the largest LFs out of LAX, was an AA spoke that happens to be a UA hub. It took me a couple times to understand it, but I think that's what cathay747 meant.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
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ctrabs0114
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:02 am

ChrisNH38 wrote:
Quite peculiar seeing 777s back and forth BOS-MIA on several days recently.


AA must be routing a lot of cargo between MIA and BOS to see a 777 on that route. Isn't that usually an A321/738 route?
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
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Miamiairport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:32 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
Quite peculiar seeing 777s back and forth BOS-MIA on several days recently.


AA must be routing a lot of cargo between MIA and BOS to see a 777 on that route. Isn't that usually an A321/738 route?


Wasn't the 772 originally suppose to do the LHR run (no aborted)? Or was that a 788?
 
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chepos
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:30 am

Miamiairport wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
Quite peculiar seeing 777s back and forth BOS-MIA on several days recently.


AA must be routing a lot of cargo between MIA and BOS to see a 777 on that route. Isn't that usually an A321/738 route?


Wasn't the 772 originally suppose to do the LHR run (no aborted)? Or was that a 788?

LHR was scheduled to operate with a 77E.

Now changing topics, AA has requested the following exemptions to the DOT with regards to the CARES act.

ANC- resumption June 4
FCA - resumption June 4
ACK - resumption June 19
MVY- resumption June 19
EGE - resumption June 6
MTJ - resumption June 6
ASE - resumption June 6
LIH - resumption August 18
OGG - resumption August 18
KOA - resumption August 18


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ahj2000
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:57 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Dallas/Fort Worth to Lima is set to be on the 788 instead of 752 when it returns in August.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-14apr20/

Also hidden in here is that MIA-LIM goes to the incredibly uncompetitive A319 (going to 321 later in the summer). Against LA's fairly solid 767, this is going to be a shame.
FWIW, apparently AV now has 319/320 on the route instead of 332, so the product is on their level.
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744SPX
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:42 pm

So there are no AA flights from DFW to Lima until August?
 
MrPeanut
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:54 pm

chepos wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:

AA must be routing a lot of cargo between MIA and BOS to see a 777 on that route. Isn't that usually an A321/738 route?


Wasn't the 772 originally suppose to do the LHR run (no aborted)? Or was that a 788?

LHR was scheduled to operate with a 77E.

Now changing topics, AA has requested the following exemptions to the DOT with regards to the CARES act.

ANC- resumption June 4
FCA - resumption June 4
ACK - resumption June 19
MVY- resumption June 19
EGE - resumption June 6
MTJ - resumption June 6
ASE - resumption June 6
LIH - resumption August 18
OGG - resumption August 18
KOA - resumption August 18


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I am sure they will receive the same type of approval Spirit and Frontier received
 
onwFan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:29 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Dallas/Fort Worth to Lima is set to be on the 788 instead of 752 when it returns in August.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-14apr20/

Also hidden in here is that MIA-LIM goes to the incredibly uncompetitive A319 (going to 321 later in the summer). Against LA's fairly solid 767, this is going to be a shame.
FWIW, apparently AV now has 319/320 on the route instead of 332, so the product is on their level.

Yeah, if it is going to be a shame that AA and AV seat 1 passenger every other row versus LA seating 1 passenger every five rows.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:02 am

MrPeanut wrote:
chepos wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:

Wasn't the 772 originally suppose to do the LHR run (no aborted)? Or was that a 788?

LHR was scheduled to operate with a 77E.

Now changing topics, AA has requested the following exemptions to the DOT with regards to the CARES act.

ANC- resumption June 4
FCA - resumption June 4
ACK - resumption June 19
MVY- resumption June 19
EGE - resumption June 6
MTJ - resumption June 6
ASE - resumption June 6
LIH - resumption August 18
OGG - resumption August 18
KOA - resumption August 18


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I am sure they will receive the same type of approval Spirit and Frontier received



The seasonal route requests have a reasonable chance as they are just asking to fly the routes for the same season as last year. The Hawaii requests will be definitely denied however.
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:26 pm

It was around April 2nd when we got the big announcement about the suspension or delayed start of international routes. I wonder if we are getting an update around May 2nd. A lot of those routes that are supposed to start in June are impossible to happen in my opinion based on policies certain countries have imposed.
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:32 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Dallas/Fort Worth to Lima is set to be on the 788 instead of 752 when it returns in August.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-14apr20/

Also hidden in here is that MIA-LIM goes to the incredibly uncompetitive A319 (going to 321 later in the summer). Against LA's fairly solid 767, this is going to be a shame.
FWIW, apparently AV now has 319/320 on the route instead of 332, so the product is on their level.

In Y it isn't that bad assuming that AA will be using a L-AA which is equipped with PTVs.

It is a loss meal-service wise as no AA narrow body is equipped with ovens in the Y-class galley. Before AA did a hot meal after take-off with a pre-arrival cold snack box, and I am not sure if the A319/A321/738 galley has the space for both a cold meal service and a cold pre-arrival snack service.
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chepos
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:49 pm

USAirALB wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Dallas/Fort Worth to Lima is set to be on the 788 instead of 752 when it returns in August.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-14apr20/

Also hidden in here is that MIA-LIM goes to the incredibly uncompetitive A319 (going to 321 later in the summer). Against LA's fairly solid 767, this is going to be a shame.
FWIW, apparently AV now has 319/320 on the route instead of 332, so the product is on their level.

In Y it isn't that bad assuming that AA will be using a L-AA which is equipped with PTVs.

It is a loss meal-service wise as no AA narrow body is equipped with ovens in the Y-class galley. Before AA did a hot meal after take-off with a pre-arrival cold snack box, and I am not sure if the A319/A321/738 galley has the space for both a cold meal service and a cold pre-arrival snack service.

Most, if not all MIA-South American scheduled 319 equip pre Covid operated with the LAA 319, pretty sure it will be the same now. As to meal service, for example on Colombia flights they would serve a cold meal in Y, I am sure LIM will be the same. The 787 was recently in MIA for fam purposes, once demand goes up I could see the 787 on MIA-LIM (as it stands now, DFW-LIM upon resumption is scheduled on the 787).


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cathay747
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:21 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
MrPeanut wrote:
chepos wrote:
LHR was scheduled to operate with a 77E.
Now changing topics, AA has requested the following exemptions to the DOT with regards to the CARES act.

LIH - resumption August 18
OGG - resumption August 18
KOA - resumption August 18

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I am sure they will receive the same type of approval Spirit and Frontier received

The Hawaii requests will be definitely denied however.


Haven't heard/read, but maybe not...HA just got DOT exemption to suspend all of their Mainland <> Hawaii routes except for LAX/SFO which they're maintaining. DOT agreed it would be nuts for them to be forced to operate virtually empty widebodies over such long routes because of zero demand due to the mandatory 14-day quarantine required for all visitors to the state as ordered by the Governor.
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Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:26 am

AA is scheduling more changes to some long-haul routes per aa.com's booking. This includes the first scheduled 772 service for CLT.

(!) CLT-MUC resumption July 7 confirmed 772 launch replacing A332
(!) CLT-LHR resumption July 7 going 772 replacing A333
DFW-LIM pushed back to Oct 25 - still 788 replacing 752
PHL-LHR resumption June 4 - 788 replacing A333

Pics of the booking if anyone needs it: https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/1254278981429403648
 
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chepos
Posts: 7273
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American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:36 am

Ishrion wrote:
AA is scheduling more changes to some long-haul routes per aa.com's booking. This includes the first scheduled 772 service for CLT.

(!) CLT-MUC resumption July 7 confirmed 772 launch replacing A332
(!) CLT-LHR resumption July 7 going 772 replacing A333
DFW-LIM pushed back to Oct 25 - still 788 replacing 752
PHL-LHR resumption June 4 - 788 replacing A333

Pics of the booking if anyone needs it: https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/1254278981429403648

PHL-MAD for July is showing a 332.

FYI, it had been posted the majority of European resumptions for June would all operate as 788. The schedule currently does not reflect this.

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chonetsao
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:48 am

chepos wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA is scheduling more changes to some long-haul routes per aa.com's booking. This includes the first scheduled 772 service for CLT.

(!) CLT-MUC resumption July 7 confirmed 772 launch replacing A332
(!) CLT-LHR resumption July 7 going 772 replacing A333
DFW-LIM pushed back to Oct 25 - still 788 replacing 752
PHL-LHR resumption June 4 - 788 replacing A333

Pics of the booking if anyone needs it: https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/1254278981429403648

PHL-MAD for July is showing a 332.

FYI, it had been posted the majority of European resumptions for June would all operate as 788. The schedule currently does not reflect this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are only 21 B788 in AA's fleet. That translate to roughly 15-19 daily US-EU routes considering stand-by aircraft and lay overs. Consider there are 47 B772ER in AA's fleet. I would say the original twitter by Jon may have meant a certain station (namely PHL like some posters have pointed out) to Europe. Going forward, I am sure Europe will see a mixture of B77W (LHR), B772ER (LHR and other hubs including MAD CDG...etc), B788 (Secondary EU cities), B789 and a few remain A332s in this summer should no further cut is happening. I just do not think all B788 European route would happening (Personally opinion and happily to be proven wrong).
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2926
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:27 pm

chepos wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA is scheduling more changes to some long-haul routes per aa.com's booking. This includes the first scheduled 772 service for CLT.

(!) CLT-MUC resumption July 7 confirmed 772 launch replacing A332
(!) CLT-LHR resumption July 7 going 772 replacing A333
DFW-LIM pushed back to Oct 25 - still 788 replacing 752
PHL-LHR resumption June 4 - 788 replacing A333

Pics of the booking if anyone needs it: https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/1254278981429403648

PHL-MAD for July is showing a 332.

FYI, it had been posted the majority of European resumptions for June would all operate as 788. The schedule currently does not reflect this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So basically no A330s for the summer until October... assuming AA hasn’t completely taken them out of service.

I believe the only 789 route from June to October is ORD-LHR but I haven’t checked.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1226
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:33 pm

chonetsao wrote:
chepos wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA is scheduling more changes to some long-haul routes per aa.com's booking. This includes the first scheduled 772 service for CLT.

(!) CLT-MUC resumption July 7 confirmed 772 launch replacing A332
(!) CLT-LHR resumption July 7 going 772 replacing A333
DFW-LIM pushed back to Oct 25 - still 788 replacing 752
PHL-LHR resumption June 4 - 788 replacing A333

Pics of the booking if anyone needs it: https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/1254278981429403648

PHL-MAD for July is showing a 332.

FYI, it had been posted the majority of European resumptions for June would all operate as 788. The schedule currently does not reflect this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are only 21 B788 in AA's fleet. That translate to roughly 15-19 daily US-EU routes considering stand-by aircraft and lay overs. Consider there are 47 B772ER in AA's fleet. I would say the original twitter by Jon may have meant a certain station (namely PHL like some posters have pointed out) to Europe. Going forward, I am sure Europe will see a mixture of B77W (LHR), B772ER (LHR and other hubs including MAD CDG...etc), B788 (Secondary EU cities), B789 and a few remain A332s in this summer should no further cut is happening. I just do not think all B788 European route would happening (Personally opinion and happily to be proven wrong).


I think for this summer it is just easier for all parties involved if PHL basically carries only 788s. Down the line I do think we will see your approach of a mix with 789s and 772s serving PHL. Unfortunately, I do not believe we will ever see a 77W.
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1402
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:16 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
chepos wrote:
PHL-MAD for July is showing a 332.

FYI, it had been posted the majority of European resumptions for June would all operate as 788. The schedule currently does not reflect this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are only 21 B788 in AA's fleet. That translate to roughly 15-19 daily US-EU routes considering stand-by aircraft and lay overs. Consider there are 47 B772ER in AA's fleet. I would say the original twitter by Jon may have meant a certain station (namely PHL like some posters have pointed out) to Europe. Going forward, I am sure Europe will see a mixture of B77W (LHR), B772ER (LHR and other hubs including MAD CDG...etc), B788 (Secondary EU cities), B789 and a few remain A332s in this summer should no further cut is happening. I just do not think all B788 European route would happening (Personally opinion and happily to be proven wrong).


I think for this summer it is just easier for all parties involved if PHL basically carries only 788s. Down the line I do think we will see your approach of a mix with 789s and 772s serving PHL. Unfortunately, I do not believe we will ever see a 77W.


PHL will focus its TATL operation around the 788 once TATL service returns.

PHLLHR now pushed back to July on 788 and will move to a 772 in October.

Think all A330 will join the fate of the 767/757/E190 in the desert.

Huge issue with bringing the 777 into CLT/PHL is lack of trained crews on the 777 in those bases.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:31 pm

flyboy7974 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

There are only 21 B788 in AA's fleet. That translate to roughly 15-19 daily US-EU routes considering stand-by aircraft and lay overs. Consider there are 47 B772ER in AA's fleet. I would say the original twitter by Jon may have meant a certain station (namely PHL like some posters have pointed out) to Europe. Going forward, I am sure Europe will see a mixture of B77W (LHR), B772ER (LHR and other hubs including MAD CDG...etc), B788 (Secondary EU cities), B789 and a few remain A332s in this summer should no further cut is happening. I just do not think all B788 European route would happening (Personally opinion and happily to be proven wrong).


I think for this summer it is just easier for all parties involved if PHL basically carries only 788s. Down the line I do think we will see your approach of a mix with 789s and 772s serving PHL. Unfortunately, I do not believe we will ever see a 77W.


PHL will focus its TATL operation around the 788 once TATL service returns.

PHLLHR now pushed back to July on 788 and will move to a 772 in October.

Think all A330 will join the fate of the 767/757/E190 in the desert.

Huge issue with bringing the 777 into CLT/PHL is lack of trained crews on the 777 in those bases.


Where did you see 772 coming to PHL?!?
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2926
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:41 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
flyboy7974 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

I think for this summer it is just easier for all parties involved if PHL basically carries only 788s. Down the line I do think we will see your approach of a mix with 789s and 772s serving PHL. Unfortunately, I do not believe we will ever see a 77W.


PHL will focus its TATL operation around the 788 once TATL service returns.

PHLLHR now pushed back to July on 788 and will move to a 772 in October.

Think all A330 will join the fate of the 767/757/E190 in the desert.

Huge issue with bringing the 777 into CLT/PHL is lack of trained crews on the 777 in those bases.


Where did you see 772 coming to PHL?!?


I’m guessing he has inside info.

And for what it’s worth, it makes sense.

If the long-run for AA’s LHR flights is to go all 777, then this plan is getting closer.

BOS, SEA, PHX, RDU, and CLT will now see or are expected to see the 772 on the LHR routes.

DFW, LAX, JFK, MIA will see the 77W or a a mix of both the 77W and a 772 on their LHR routes.

ORD is scheduled for the 789, but that could easily swap to the 772 as it has in the past.

PHL is the remaining base that has never seen a scheduled AA 772. That could easily be switched over and replace the A333 in October, which will fulfill AA’s goal of having 777s on all LHR flights.

I think it was flyboy or someone else who said this was AA’s plan in the PHL thread.
 
AAIRLINERS
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:44 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:13 pm

I hope you take his "inside information" with a grain of salt. Speculation is running fierce and rumors abound because AA isn't sure what equipment will be doing what even one to two months from now if anything. All the pre-covid scheduling is nothing but ancient history at this point. Don't expect AA to expend any cash on running anything but a skeleton schedule until at least next year. Business as usual is anything but.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2121
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:56 pm

flyboy7974 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

There are only 21 B788 in AA's fleet. That translate to roughly 15-19 daily US-EU routes considering stand-by aircraft and lay overs. Consider there are 47 B772ER in AA's fleet. I would say the original twitter by Jon may have meant a certain station (namely PHL like some posters have pointed out) to Europe. Going forward, I am sure Europe will see a mixture of B77W (LHR), B772ER (LHR and other hubs including MAD CDG...etc), B788 (Secondary EU cities), B789 and a few remain A332s in this summer should no further cut is happening. I just do not think all B788 European route would happening (Personally opinion and happily to be proven wrong).


I think for this summer it is just easier for all parties involved if PHL basically carries only 788s. Down the line I do think we will see your approach of a mix with 789s and 772s serving PHL. Unfortunately, I do not believe we will ever see a 77W.


PHL will focus its TATL operation around the 788 once TATL service returns.

PHLLHR now pushed back to July on 788 and will move to a 772 in October.

Think all A330 will join the fate of the 767/757/E190 in the desert.

Huge issue with bringing the 777 into CLT/PHL is lack of trained crews on the 777 in those bases.

777 was in CLT this week for ramp and maintenance fam and training
 
tphuang
Posts: 5306
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:12 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
flyboy7974 wrote:

PHL will focus its TATL operation around the 788 once TATL service returns.

PHLLHR now pushed back to July on 788 and will move to a 772 in October.

Think all A330 will join the fate of the 767/757/E190 in the desert.

Huge issue with bringing the 777 into CLT/PHL is lack of trained crews on the 777 in those bases.


Where did you see 772 coming to PHL?!?


I’m guessing he has inside info.

And for what it’s worth, it makes sense.

If the long-run for AA’s LHR flights is to go all 777, then this plan is getting closer.

BOS, SEA, PHX, RDU, and CLT will now see or are expected to see the 772 on the LHR routes.

DFW, LAX, JFK, MIA will see the 77W or a a mix of both the 77W and a 772 on their LHR routes.

ORD is scheduled for the 789, but that could easily swap to the 772 as it has in the past.

PHL is the remaining base that has never seen a scheduled AA 772. That could easily be switched over and replace the A333 in October, which will fulfill AA’s goal of having 777s on all LHR flights.

I think it was flyboy or someone else who said this was AA’s plan in the PHL thread.

Given where tatl demand is likely to be next year, it would seem to be a terrible decision to run 777 on most of these routes. In fact, aa probably wish it had more 787-8 at this point.

There is not too many routes that warrant 777 for the next couple of years.
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1402
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:35 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:24 pm

tphuang wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

Where did you see 772 coming to PHL?!?


I’m guessing he has inside info.

And for what it’s worth, it makes sense.

If the long-run for AA’s LHR flights is to go all 777, then this plan is getting closer.

BOS, SEA, PHX, RDU, and CLT will now see or are expected to see the 772 on the LHR routes.

DFW, LAX, JFK, MIA will see the 77W or a a mix of both the 77W and a 772 on their LHR routes.

ORD is scheduled for the 789, but that could easily swap to the 772 as it has in the past.

PHL is the remaining base that has never seen a scheduled AA 772. That could easily be switched over and replace the A333 in October, which will fulfill AA’s goal of having 777s on all LHR flights.

I think it was flyboy or someone else who said this was AA’s plan in the PHL thread.

Given where tatl demand is likely to be next year, it would seem to be a terrible decision to run 777 on most of these routes. In fact, aa probably wish it had more 787-8 at this point.

There is not too many routes that warrant 777 for the next couple of years.


Plan is to make LHR all 777, hopefully by end of year.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5306
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:30 pm

flyboy7974 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

I’m guessing he has inside info.

And for what it’s worth, it makes sense.

If the long-run for AA’s LHR flights is to go all 777, then this plan is getting closer.

BOS, SEA, PHX, RDU, and CLT will now see or are expected to see the 772 on the LHR routes.

DFW, LAX, JFK, MIA will see the 77W or a a mix of both the 77W and a 772 on their LHR routes.

ORD is scheduled for the 789, but that could easily swap to the 772 as it has in the past.

PHL is the remaining base that has never seen a scheduled AA 772. That could easily be switched over and replace the A333 in October, which will fulfill AA’s goal of having 777s on all LHR flights.

I think it was flyboy or someone else who said this was AA’s plan in the PHL thread.

Given where tatl demand is likely to be next year, it would seem to be a terrible decision to run 777 on most of these routes. In fact, aa probably wish it had more 787-8 at this point.

There is not too many routes that warrant 777 for the next couple of years.


Plan is to make LHR all 777, hopefully by end of year.


Great way to burn through money.
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:32 pm

Is there a source to say London Heathrow (LHR) will be all Boeing 777?
 
KD5MDK
Posts: 832
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:05 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:30 pm

BOS, SEA, PHX, RDU, and CLT will now see or are expected to see the 772 on the LHR routes.

Do we still expect to see SEA-LHR on AA metal? That seems like an easy thing to keep on BA. Same with BOS.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:13 pm

Ishrion wrote:
chepos wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA is scheduling more changes to some long-haul routes per aa.com's booking. This includes the first scheduled 772 service for CLT.

(!) CLT-MUC resumption July 7 confirmed 772 launch replacing A332
(!) CLT-LHR resumption July 7 going 772 replacing A333
DFW-LIM pushed back to Oct 25 - still 788 replacing 752
PHL-LHR resumption June 4 - 788 replacing A333

Pics of the booking if anyone needs it: https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/1254278981429403648

PHL-MAD for July is showing a 332.

FYI, it had been posted the majority of European resumptions for June would all operate as 788. The schedule currently does not reflect this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So basically no A330s for the summer until October... assuming AA hasn’t completely taken them out of service.

I believe the only 789 route from June to October is ORD-LHR but I haven’t checked.


There are a few 789 routes in July. I found:
LAX-HND
DFW-GRU
DFW-DUB
ORD-LHR

Way more 788 routes, though:
DFW-NRT
DFW-HND
DFW-ICN
ORD-DUB
ORD-BCN
ORD-ATH
PHL-LHR
PHL-ZRH

The only 332 route I found was indeed PHL-MAD, which is presumably being kept for now to keep the A330 crews current.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4161
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:21 pm

FSDan wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
chepos wrote:
PHL-MAD for July is showing a 332.

FYI, it had been posted the majority of European resumptions for June would all operate as 788. The schedule currently does not reflect this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The only 332 route I found was indeed PHL-MAD, which is presumably being kept for now to keep the A330 crews current.

Indication is that they will store the entire 332 fleet. I imagine PHL-MAD operates with a 788.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:27 pm

usairways85 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Ishrion wrote:


The only 332 route I found was indeed PHL-MAD, which is presumably being kept for now to keep the A330 crews current.

Indication is that they will store the entire 332 fleet. I imagine PHL-MAD operates with a 788.


Interesting they made all the other changes this weekend but left that one out there.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:31 pm

US airlines are so delusional. They have no idea how strict some European countries are with this.

There's no way Greece for example is going to let any flights from the US this summer.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2121
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:38 pm

FSDan wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
chepos wrote:
PHL-MAD for July is showing a 332.

FYI, it had been posted the majority of European resumptions for June would all operate as 788. The schedule currently does not reflect this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So basically no A330s for the summer until October... assuming AA hasn’t completely taken them out of service.

I believe the only 789 route from June to October is ORD-LHR but I haven’t checked.


There are a few 789 routes in July. I found:
LAX-HND
DFW-GRU
DFW-DUB
ORD-LHR

Way more 788 routes, though:
DFW-NRT
DFW-HND
DFW-ICN
ORD-DUB
ORD-BCN
ORD-ATH
PHL-LHR
PHL-ZRH

The only 332 route I found was indeed PHL-MAD, which is presumably being kept for now to keep the A330 crews current.

One flight a day doesn’t keep all the 330 pilots current. They must make three landings within 90 days and simulators is what they are using. And FAs just have to do recurrent once a year.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:38 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
US airlines are so delusional. They have no idea how strict some European countries are with this.

There's no way Greece for example is going to let any flights from the US this summer.


That would be a terrible and arrogant decision for Greece and the people who reside there.
 
NLINK
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:22 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
That would be a terrible and arrogant decision for Greece and the people who reside there.



I don't see how that is arrogant of a country choosing to keep tourists out for a period. I would not fault them if that is the path they choose.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:28 am

NLINK wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
That would be a terrible and arrogant decision for Greece and the people who reside there.



I don't see how that is arrogant of a country choosing to keep tourists out for a period. I would not fault them if that is the path they choose.


While I do see the severity of the issue I can not defend a country that is willing to cripple its economy and all of its mom and pop shops that rely on tourism. Greece should follow the lead of others and not keep doing its own thing like it has done in the past...
 
JohanTally
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:50 am

tphuang wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

Where did you see 772 coming to PHL?!?


I’m guessing he has inside info.

And for what it’s worth, it makes sense.

If the long-run for AA’s LHR flights is to go all 777, then this plan is getting closer.

BOS, SEA, PHX, RDU, and CLT will now see or are expected to see the 772 on the LHR routes.

DFW, LAX, JFK, MIA will see the 77W or a a mix of both the 77W and a 772 on their LHR routes.

ORD is scheduled for the 789, but that could easily swap to the 772 as it has in the past.

PHL is the remaining base that has never seen a scheduled AA 772. That could easily be switched over and replace the A333 in October, which will fulfill AA’s goal of having 777s on all LHR flights.

I think it was flyboy or someone else who said this was AA’s plan in the PHL thread.

Given where tatl demand is likely to be next year, it would seem to be a terrible decision to run 777 on most of these routes. In fact, aa probably wish it had more 787-8 at this point.

There is not too many routes that warrant 777 for the next couple of years.


The AA 772 has less seats than the 333 but more premium which make a lot of sense for LHR from CLT long term. They can hopefully get back to twice a day next year.

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