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JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 10:26 pm

bigb wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
bigb wrote:

I have to ask, what do you based this off of? Hmm, D-12,D-13,D-11 are all between spot 27 and 26. That’s a very tight fit.

Those are the gates that I know that are able to take A346. D12 can also take a 747-8. A couple of years back (when US was in Star) LH had the airport run tests at D12 to see if it could park a 747-8 there without blocking the taxiway flow, and the tests showed it could. I'm not sure however about the 747-8 and the rest of the D gates.

Both the 747-8 and the A346 are longer than the 77W, so I am not sure why they wouldn't be able to take it.


I am sure the 77W can fit the D gates, I just know it’s a tight taxi between spot 27 and 26. It’s not bad with the 772 there currently.


I feel that D10 and D12 would fit it no problem D11 will be tight D13 obviously doesn't work but there are plenty of ways to accommodate them between D9 and D2. S19 they would offload A330s on D gates and tow them to B gates. They also have A gates that could accommodate departures but no arrivals needing customs.
 
bigb
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 10:36 pm

JohanTally wrote:
bigb wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Those are the gates that I know that are able to take A346. D12 can also take a 747-8. A couple of years back (when US was in Star) LH had the airport run tests at D12 to see if it could park a 747-8 there without blocking the taxiway flow, and the tests showed it could. I'm not sure however about the 747-8 and the rest of the D gates.

Both the 747-8 and the A346 are longer than the 77W, so I am not sure why they wouldn't be able to take it.


I am sure the 77W can fit the D gates, I just know it’s a tight taxi between spot 27 and 26. It’s not bad with the 772 there currently.


I feel that D10 and D12 would fit it no problem D11 will be tight D13 obviously doesn't work but there are plenty of ways to accommodate them between D9 and D2. S19 they would offload A330s on D gates and tow them to B gates. They also have A gates that could accommodate departures but no arrivals needing customs.


I’ll have to look at our 10-9 pages, but as I recall, D12 is a corner gate and D10 goes into wide ramp space between D and C. I can see it fitting the corner gate. A gates would be a good place to park a 773 and the B gates where the board the widebodies.
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 10:36 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

It's a good question. Outside of COVID19, AA serves CDG year round from JFK, PHL, MIA, DFW and seasonally from CLT (a second frequency from DFW), and also from ORD. In the past, AA also flew BOS-Paris. It is a good question, given the absence of feed on the CDG end, but Paris is, in normal times, a major destination for tourism and for business, and AA has been in the market a very long time. The JFK service was launched in 1987 and at one point, was 2 x daily. On the PHL/MIA/DFW/CLT/ORD end, AA has plenty of feed given the hub status each of these airports have. AA's history with Paris is interesting. It served the market at ORY, not CDG, until the mid-2000s and was the last of the US carriers to move to CDG.


We moved to CDG in 1999. I remember that Carty was nervous about the move, thinking that what made AA so strong in the Paris market was the fact we were serving ORY, and it provided a competitive advantage flying out of a less congested airport and then the French government wanted all long haul out of CDG and AA had no choice in the matter. But AA maintained its presence, and for a hot minute we also flew SJC-CDG and LAX-CDG. Those routes were casualties of 9/11, and never came back. SJC was dismantled as a hub.


Thanks. I forgot that the AA move from ORY to CDG happened pre-9/11. Yes, I remember the short lived SJC-CDG and LAX-CDG operation, which never came back indeed. Yes, AA definitely saw ORY as a competitive advantage given its close proximity to Paris but indeed the move was forced. CO also operated from ORY, and Delta as well, and Tower Air, as I remember. NW was at CDG, as was PA, TW since CDG opened. AA also flew RDU-ORY in the very early 1990s with a 762 but the route was axed when the hub was dismantled.

US also originally served ORY from PHL as well, but switched sometime in the mid-1990s. A US timetable from 1992 shows them operating from ORY but by 1996 they had switched to CDG.

Somewhat random: but do you all remember back in 2007/8 AA saw value in STN? They initially launched 1x daily JFK-STN and then planned to operate a second daily flight but I am not sure if the second daily flight ever had operated. IIRC, the route was initially planned to compete with MAXjet. AA even had plans to construct a Business Class lounge in STN that I am not sure if it was ever even constructed.
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 10:56 pm

Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 11:26 pm

In an interesting chain of events, it appears that AA will be starting BOS-JAC this winter. Flights are now available for sale starting 19 Dec. Equipment loaded as a LUS A319.

This likely means:
1) AA projects leisure travel to come back sooner, rather than later.
2) AA still sees value in conservatively growing BOS P2P markets they can likely succeed.

Assuming this route launches and the other recently announced BOS routes launch, AA will offer 26 destinations ex BOS nonstop, albeit some seasonally.
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FSDan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 11:56 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
CDG - This will very likely come back. CDG is AA's #2 station in Europe and AA has strong POS on the France side. Have flown it a lot pre COVID and it seems to alternate a bit between being full and occasionally being empty, but the route has existed since 1987.


I can't respond intelligently to your overall post, but I would like to ask, for anybody who knows, why is this so with CDG? Seems odd to me that CDG would be their #2 European station/spoke given it's a SkyTeam hub and they shouldn't have any feed on that end; also seems strange that they'd have strong POS on the French side. What gives?


The myth that flying long haul only works if it's to a partner hub is overblown on a.net. CDG is a huge O&D airport as well as a SkyTeam connecting hub. Paris is arguably the #2 business center in Europe after London, and it's a very popular tourist destination for Americans. AA's hubs in large U.S. markets like Chicago, Dallas, and New York have plenty of demand (both business and leisure) to CDG to make these flights work.
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Cointrin330
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 12:31 am

USAirALB wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:

We moved to CDG in 1999. I remember that Carty was nervous about the move, thinking that what made AA so strong in the Paris market was the fact we were serving ORY, and it provided a competitive advantage flying out of a less congested airport and then the French government wanted all long haul out of CDG and AA had no choice in the matter. But AA maintained its presence, and for a hot minute we also flew SJC-CDG and LAX-CDG. Those routes were casualties of 9/11, and never came back. SJC was dismantled as a hub.


Thanks. I forgot that the AA move from ORY to CDG happened pre-9/11. Yes, I remember the short lived SJC-CDG and LAX-CDG operation, which never came back indeed. Yes, AA definitely saw ORY as a competitive advantage given its close proximity to Paris but indeed the move was forced. CO also operated from ORY, and Delta as well, and Tower Air, as I remember. NW was at CDG, as was PA, TW since CDG opened. AA also flew RDU-ORY in the very early 1990s with a 762 but the route was axed when the hub was dismantled.

US also originally served ORY from PHL as well, but switched sometime in the mid-1990s. A US timetable from 1992 shows them operating from ORY but by 1996 they had switched to CDG.

Somewhat random: but do you all remember back in 2007/8 AA saw value in STN? They initially launched 1x daily JFK-STN and then planned to operate a second daily flight but I am not sure if the second daily flight ever had operated. IIRC, the route was initially planned to compete with MAXjet. AA even had plans to construct a Business Class lounge in STN that I am not sure if it was ever even constructed.


I forgot about USAir. Indeed they did serve Paris as well, from PHL and in 1992 (per Departed Flights showing the original timetable, it indeed operated to ORY) with CLT added later and I think only from CDG. Not sure about PIT. I remember in the peak hub days they had LGW and FRA from PIT, but I don't remember if they had Paris as well.

On STN, yes, AA launched JFK-STN to compete with EOS more than MaxJet, which also operated JFK-STN in the mid-2000s. The EOS product was a bit more premium and many of the banks on both ends of the route had started to include EOS in their corporate travel policies, which was a major problem for American as AA dominated, with BA, the NY to London market at the time, alongside VS. Delta was not yet operating JFK to LHR at the time and over at EWR, CO was flying the route twice daily, into LGW, until 2008, with a 777 and a 764. UA was, by 2006, I think down to 1 single 772 from JFK to LHR, having cut EWR and reduced the JFK frequencies from 3 x daily 763s to a single flight. The global financial crisis took out EOS, MaxJet, and SilverJet (which operated EWR-LTN) pretty quickly and AA no longer needed to serve STN and the route was axed. CO also I think tried EWR-STN for a time, on a 757 and it too was withdrawn very quickly. To my knowledge, AA never did build out a lounge at STN but it would stand to reason there might have been talk about it, as EOS and Maxjet offered an entirely different ground experience with small but premium lounges and an attempt at high touch service on the ground.
 
USPIT10L
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 12:37 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

Thanks. I forgot that the AA move from ORY to CDG happened pre-9/11. Yes, I remember the short lived SJC-CDG and LAX-CDG operation, which never came back indeed. Yes, AA definitely saw ORY as a competitive advantage given its close proximity to Paris but indeed the move was forced. CO also operated from ORY, and Delta as well, and Tower Air, as I remember. NW was at CDG, as was PA, TW since CDG opened. AA also flew RDU-ORY in the very early 1990s with a 762 but the route was axed when the hub was dismantled.

US also originally served ORY from PHL as well, but switched sometime in the mid-1990s. A US timetable from 1992 shows them operating from ORY but by 1996 they had switched to CDG.

Somewhat random: but do you all remember back in 2007/8 AA saw value in STN? They initially launched 1x daily JFK-STN and then planned to operate a second daily flight but I am not sure if the second daily flight ever had operated. IIRC, the route was initially planned to compete with MAXjet. AA even had plans to construct a Business Class lounge in STN that I am not sure if it was ever even constructed.


I forgot about USAir. Indeed they did serve Paris as well, from PHL and in 1992 (per Departed Flights showing the original timetable, it indeed operated to ORY) with CLT added later and I think only from CDG. Not sure about PIT. I remember in the peak hub days they had LGW and FRA from PIT, but I don't remember if they had Paris as well.

On STN, yes, AA launched JFK-STN to compete with EOS more than MaxJet, which also operated JFK-STN in the mid-2000s. The EOS product was a bit more premium and many of the banks on both ends of the route had started to include EOS in their corporate travel policies, which was a major problem for American as AA dominated, with BA, the NY to London market at the time, alongside VS. Delta was not yet operating JFK to LHR at the time and over at EWR, CO was flying the route twice daily, into LGW, until 2008, with a 777 and a 764. UA was, by 2006, I think down to 1 single 772 from JFK to LHR, having cut EWR and reduced the JFK frequencies from 3 x daily 763s to a single flight. The global financial crisis took out EOS, MaxJet, and SilverJet (which operated EWR-LTN) pretty quickly and AA no longer needed to serve STN and the route was axed. CO also I think tried EWR-STN for a time, on a 757 and it too was withdrawn very quickly. To my knowledge, AA never did build out a lounge at STN but it would stand to reason there might have been talk about it, as EOS and Maxjet offered an entirely different ground experience with small but premium lounges and an attempt at high touch service on the ground.


PITCDG didn't start until summer 1998. It ran through summer 2002, seasonal in 2002. PITFRA started in June 1990 abd ran until 2004. PITLGW started in June 2000 and ran until 2003. The LGW service didn't start until after BA pulled out in late 1999. Service did not resume immediately due to Bermuda II issues and was not resolved until June 2000.
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USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 12:51 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

Thanks. I forgot that the AA move from ORY to CDG happened pre-9/11. Yes, I remember the short lived SJC-CDG and LAX-CDG operation, which never came back indeed. Yes, AA definitely saw ORY as a competitive advantage given its close proximity to Paris but indeed the move was forced. CO also operated from ORY, and Delta as well, and Tower Air, as I remember. NW was at CDG, as was PA, TW since CDG opened. AA also flew RDU-ORY in the very early 1990s with a 762 but the route was axed when the hub was dismantled.

US also originally served ORY from PHL as well, but switched sometime in the mid-1990s. A US timetable from 1992 shows them operating from ORY but by 1996 they had switched to CDG.

Somewhat random: but do you all remember back in 2007/8 AA saw value in STN? They initially launched 1x daily JFK-STN and then planned to operate a second daily flight but I am not sure if the second daily flight ever had operated. IIRC, the route was initially planned to compete with MAXjet. AA even had plans to construct a Business Class lounge in STN that I am not sure if it was ever even constructed.


I forgot about USAir. Indeed they did serve Paris as well, from PHL and in 1992 (per Departed Flights showing the original timetable, it indeed operated to ORY) with CLT added later and I think only from CDG. Not sure about PIT. I remember in the peak hub days they had LGW and FRA from PIT, but I don't remember if they had Paris as well.

On STN, yes, AA launched JFK-STN to compete with EOS more than MaxJet, which also operated JFK-STN in the mid-2000s. The EOS product was a bit more premium and many of the banks on both ends of the route had started to include EOS in their corporate travel policies, which was a major problem for American as AA dominated, with BA, the NY to London market at the time, alongside VS. Delta was not yet operating JFK to LHR at the time and over at EWR, CO was flying the route twice daily, into LGW, until 2008, with a 777 and a 764. UA was, by 2006, I think down to 1 single 772 from JFK to LHR, having cut EWR and reduced the JFK frequencies from 3 x daily 763s to a single flight. The global financial crisis took out EOS, MaxJet, and SilverJet (which operated EWR-LTN) pretty quickly and AA no longer needed to serve STN and the route was axed. CO also I think tried EWR-STN for a time, on a 757 and it too was withdrawn very quickly. To my knowledge, AA never did build out a lounge at STN but it would stand to reason there might have been talk about it, as EOS and Maxjet offered an entirely different ground experience with small but premium lounges and an attempt at high touch service on the ground.

PIT has CDG service before CLT did. CLT-CDG only started in 2000 and then was suspended after 9/11, only coming back in 2009 IIRC. CLT-CDG is an oddball to me. You would think with the strength of the hub they would be able to run it year round. US ran it year-round (thrice weekly in Winter) for a couple of years up until 2015 or so. Given that the AA brand was stronger in CDG I figured the route would have made sense year-round, but I guess not.

I found this bit from an old press release back from 2007: "At Stansted, American is set to begin the construction of the American Airlines Business Lounge in Satellite Two. Scheduled for completion in Spring 2008 with seating capacity for 48 people, the lounge will feature amenities including a self-service bar, cyber cafe, wireless and wired Internet access, restrooms, and two shower rooms. Passengers will be able to board their flights directly from the Business Lounge."

Truly a shame for personal reasons. I would much prefer going into Gatwick or Stansted these days given the Cluster than LHR is. LGW is only 15 minutes further than Heathrow by rail, and STN is only 30-35 minutes further.
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sagechan
Posts: 352
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 1:16 am

USAirALB wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
US also originally served ORY from PHL as well, but switched sometime in the mid-1990s. A US timetable from 1992 shows them operating from ORY but by 1996 they had switched to CDG.

Somewhat random: but do you all remember back in 2007/8 AA saw value in STN? They initially launched 1x daily JFK-STN and then planned to operate a second daily flight but I am not sure if the second daily flight ever had operated. IIRC, the route was initially planned to compete with MAXjet. AA even had plans to construct a Business Class lounge in STN that I am not sure if it was ever even constructed.


I forgot about USAir. Indeed they did serve Paris as well, from PHL and in 1992 (per Departed Flights showing the original timetable, it indeed operated to ORY) with CLT added later and I think only from CDG. Not sure about PIT. I remember in the peak hub days they had LGW and FRA from PIT, but I don't remember if they had Paris as well.

On STN, yes, AA launched JFK-STN to compete with EOS more than MaxJet, which also operated JFK-STN in the mid-2000s. The EOS product was a bit more premium and many of the banks on both ends of the route had started to include EOS in their corporate travel policies, which was a major problem for American as AA dominated, with BA, the NY to London market at the time, alongside VS. Delta was not yet operating JFK to LHR at the time and over at EWR, CO was flying the route twice daily, into LGW, until 2008, with a 777 and a 764. UA was, by 2006, I think down to 1 single 772 from JFK to LHR, having cut EWR and reduced the JFK frequencies from 3 x daily 763s to a single flight. The global financial crisis took out EOS, MaxJet, and SilverJet (which operated EWR-LTN) pretty quickly and AA no longer needed to serve STN and the route was axed. CO also I think tried EWR-STN for a time, on a 757 and it too was withdrawn very quickly. To my knowledge, AA never did build out a lounge at STN but it would stand to reason there might have been talk about it, as EOS and Maxjet offered an entirely different ground experience with small but premium lounges and an attempt at high touch service on the ground.

PIT has CDG service before CLT did. CLT-CDG only started in 2000 and then was suspended after 9/11, only coming back in 2009 IIRC. CLT-CDG is an oddball to me. You would think with the strength of the hub they would be able to run it year round. US ran it year-round (thrice weekly in Winter) for a couple of years up until 2015 or so. Given that the AA brand was stronger in CDG I figured the route would have made sense year-round, but I guess not.

I found this bit from an old press release back from 2007: "At Stansted, American is set to begin the construction of the American Airlines Business Lounge in Satellite Two. Scheduled for completion in Spring 2008 with seating capacity for 48 people, the lounge will feature amenities including a self-service bar, cyber cafe, wireless and wired Internet access, restrooms, and two shower rooms. Passengers will be able to board their flights directly from the Business Lounge."

Truly a shame for personal reasons. I would much prefer going into Gatwick or Stansted these days given the Cluster than LHR is. LGW is only 15 minutes further than Heathrow by rail, and STN is only 30-35 minutes further.


I think main reason for no CLT-CDG in winter is PHL serves as the consolidating flight. Not sure there is really enough demand for the capacity as AA would have had to run an A332 or now 788. They were talking about expanding CLT season with the A321XLR which would match capacity better
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Cointrin330
Posts: 1901
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 1:50 am

sagechan wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

I forgot about USAir. Indeed they did serve Paris as well, from PHL and in 1992 (per Departed Flights showing the original timetable, it indeed operated to ORY) with CLT added later and I think only from CDG. Not sure about PIT. I remember in the peak hub days they had LGW and FRA from PIT, but I don't remember if they had Paris as well.

On STN, yes, AA launched JFK-STN to compete with EOS more than MaxJet, which also operated JFK-STN in the mid-2000s. The EOS product was a bit more premium and many of the banks on both ends of the route had started to include EOS in their corporate travel policies, which was a major problem for American as AA dominated, with BA, the NY to London market at the time, alongside VS. Delta was not yet operating JFK to LHR at the time and over at EWR, CO was flying the route twice daily, into LGW, until 2008, with a 777 and a 764. UA was, by 2006, I think down to 1 single 772 from JFK to LHR, having cut EWR and reduced the JFK frequencies from 3 x daily 763s to a single flight. The global financial crisis took out EOS, MaxJet, and SilverJet (which operated EWR-LTN) pretty quickly and AA no longer needed to serve STN and the route was axed. CO also I think tried EWR-STN for a time, on a 757 and it too was withdrawn very quickly. To my knowledge, AA never did build out a lounge at STN but it would stand to reason there might have been talk about it, as EOS and Maxjet offered an entirely different ground experience with small but premium lounges and an attempt at high touch service on the ground.

PIT has CDG service before CLT did. CLT-CDG only started in 2000 and then was suspended after 9/11, only coming back in 2009 IIRC. CLT-CDG is an oddball to me. You would think with the strength of the hub they would be able to run it year round. US ran it year-round (thrice weekly in Winter) for a couple of years up until 2015 or so. Given that the AA brand was stronger in CDG I figured the route would have made sense year-round, but I guess not.

I found this bit from an old press release back from 2007: "At Stansted, American is set to begin the construction of the American Airlines Business Lounge in Satellite Two. Scheduled for completion in Spring 2008 with seating capacity for 48 people, the lounge will feature amenities including a self-service bar, cyber cafe, wireless and wired Internet access, restrooms, and two shower rooms. Passengers will be able to board their flights directly from the Business Lounge."

Truly a shame for personal reasons. I would much prefer going into Gatwick or Stansted these days given the Cluster than LHR is. LGW is only 15 minutes further than Heathrow by rail, and STN is only 30-35 minutes further.


I think main reason for no CLT-CDG in winter is PHL serves as the consolidating flight. Not sure there is really enough demand for the capacity as AA would have had to run an A332 or now 788. They were talking about expanding CLT season with the A321XLR which would match capacity better


Yes, that really does makes sense. Prior to COVID19 anyway, AA was operating once daily from DFW (think the second frequency was added partly for demand but also to fight off AF), PHL, MIA, and JFK, with the bulk of connections likely being flown through DFW and PHL, then MIA, with JFK being more of an O&D operation, so CLT in the mix year round would likely drive down yields. Surprising though that AA could not run ORD-CDG on a year round basis. It was, at one time, year round.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1901
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 1:58 am

USAirALB wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
US also originally served ORY from PHL as well, but switched sometime in the mid-1990s. A US timetable from 1992 shows them operating from ORY but by 1996 they had switched to CDG.

Somewhat random: but do you all remember back in 2007/8 AA saw value in STN? They initially launched 1x daily JFK-STN and then planned to operate a second daily flight but I am not sure if the second daily flight ever had operated. IIRC, the route was initially planned to compete with MAXjet. AA even had plans to construct a Business Class lounge in STN that I am not sure if it was ever even constructed.


I forgot about USAir. Indeed they did serve Paris as well, from PHL and in 1992 (per Departed Flights showing the original timetable, it indeed operated to ORY) with CLT added later and I think only from CDG. Not sure about PIT. I remember in the peak hub days they had LGW and FRA from PIT, but I don't remember if they had Paris as well.

On STN, yes, AA launched JFK-STN to compete with EOS more than MaxJet, which also operated JFK-STN in the mid-2000s. The EOS product was a bit more premium and many of the banks on both ends of the route had started to include EOS in their corporate travel policies, which was a major problem for American as AA dominated, with BA, the NY to London market at the time, alongside VS. Delta was not yet operating JFK to LHR at the time and over at EWR, CO was flying the route twice daily, into LGW, until 2008, with a 777 and a 764. UA was, by 2006, I think down to 1 single 772 from JFK to LHR, having cut EWR and reduced the JFK frequencies from 3 x daily 763s to a single flight. The global financial crisis took out EOS, MaxJet, and SilverJet (which operated EWR-LTN) pretty quickly and AA no longer needed to serve STN and the route was axed. CO also I think tried EWR-STN for a time, on a 757 and it too was withdrawn very quickly. To my knowledge, AA never did build out a lounge at STN but it would stand to reason there might have been talk about it, as EOS and Maxjet offered an entirely different ground experience with small but premium lounges and an attempt at high touch service on the ground.

PIT has CDG service before CLT did. CLT-CDG only started in 2000 and then was suspended after 9/11, only coming back in 2009 IIRC. CLT-CDG is an oddball to me. You would think with the strength of the hub they would be able to run it year round. US ran it year-round (thrice weekly in Winter) for a couple of years up until 2015 or so. Given that the AA brand was stronger in CDG I figured the route would have made sense year-round, but I guess not.

I found this bit from an old press release back from 2007: "At Stansted, American is set to begin the construction of the American Airlines Business Lounge in Satellite Two. Scheduled for completion in Spring 2008 with seating capacity for 48 people, the lounge will feature amenities including a self-service bar, cyber cafe, wireless and wired Internet access, restrooms, and two shower rooms. Passengers will be able to board their flights directly from the Business Lounge."

Truly a shame for personal reasons. I would much prefer going into Gatwick or Stansted these days given the Cluster than LHR is. LGW is only 15 minutes further than Heathrow by rail, and STN is only 30-35 minutes further.


I think by the time construction would have started on an AA lounge at STN to match the offerings of EOS and MaxJet, the global financial crisis was in full swing and crude oil prices were rising pretty quickly in 2008, making a STN operation for what was initially just one flight, an expensive and risky undertaking. The demise of EOS and MaxJet put the focus back on LHR as the preferred London airport. You mentioned Gatwick, so thought to add that when AA started flying to LHR in 1991 shortly after purchasing TWA's route authorities and slots (AA flights to LHR began in July 1991), AA ran 2 x daily JFK-LHR plus 1 x daily EWR-LHR and the JFK portfolio also included one daily JFK-LGW flight which was short lived and eventually dropped.
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 3:17 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
You mentioned Gatwick


What's interesting to me is that NW/DL/CO/US all saw some value in Gatwick, as when they switched from LGW to LHR, they had committed to maintaining a presence at LGW.

US ran a 752 on PHL-LGW for a time in addition to an A330 to LHR (CLT stayed at Gatwick not only for cost reasons but also IIRC they held a corporate contract on CLT-LON that stipulated service to Gatwick, but I could be wrong). CO did EWR-LGW for a bit as well IIRC (also a 752?) and DL maintained a daily ATL-LGW flight as well. I also seem to recall NW doing DTW-LGW on a 752 for a short while after switching to Heathrow.
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Boof02671
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 4:31 am

USAirALB wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
You mentioned Gatwick


What's interesting to me is that NW/DL/CO/US all saw some value in Gatwick, as when they switched from LGW to LHR, they had committed to maintaining a presence at LGW.

US ran a 752 on PHL-LGW for a time in addition to an A330 to LHR (CLT stayed at Gatwick not only for cost reasons but also IIRC they held a corporate contract on CLT-LON that stipulated service to Gatwick, but I could be wrong). CO did EWR-LGW for a bit as well IIRC (also a 752?) and DL maintained a daily ATL-LGW flight as well. I also seem to recall NW doing DTW-LGW on a 752 for a short while after switching to Heathrow.

You are wrong, CLT—LGW was moved to a LHR. The delay was not getting a viable slot. I went to DC and lobbied Senators Helms and Edwards and Congressman Watt to help us get a slot.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 11:42 am

USAirALB wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
You mentioned Gatwick


What's interesting to me is that NW/DL/CO/US all saw some value in Gatwick, as when they switched from LGW to LHR, they had committed to maintaining a presence at LGW.

US ran a 752 on PHL-LGW for a time in addition to an A330 to LHR (CLT stayed at Gatwick not only for cost reasons but also IIRC they held a corporate contract on CLT-LON that stipulated service to Gatwick, but I could be wrong). CO did EWR-LGW for a bit as well IIRC (also a 752?) and DL maintained a daily ATL-LGW flight as well. I also seem to recall NW doing DTW-LGW on a 752 for a short while after switching to Heathrow.


I think the issue immediately post-Bermuda II in 2008 was the inability to get slots (and specifically at competitive times) at LHR which resulted in a number of US carriers keeping some service out of LGW while having transferred the bulk to LHR. The US service between LON and CLT was I believe the last to move to LHR and I think it was all about a slot, and not about a corporate contract. I remember flying from LHR back to EWR in 2009 and it seemed funny flying CO. I had made the trip many, many times since 1987 on various airlines (TW, BA, VS, AA, UA) but flying one of the non-B2 airlines seemed kind of unique at that time.
 
NYCAAer
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 4:31 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
sagechan wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
PIT has CDG service before CLT did. CLT-CDG only started in 2000 and then was suspended after 9/11, only coming back in 2009 IIRC. CLT-CDG is an oddball to me. You would think with the strength of the hub they would be able to run it year round. US ran it year-round (thrice weekly in Winter) for a couple of years up until 2015 or so. Given that the AA brand was stronger in CDG I figured the route would have made sense year-round, but I guess not.

I found this bit from an old press release back from 2007: "At Stansted, American is set to begin the construction of the American Airlines Business Lounge in Satellite Two. Scheduled for completion in Spring 2008 with seating capacity for 48 people, the lounge will feature amenities including a self-service bar, cyber cafe, wireless and wired Internet access, restrooms, and two shower rooms. Passengers will be able to board their flights directly from the Business Lounge."

Truly a shame for personal reasons. I would much prefer going into Gatwick or Stansted these days given the Cluster than LHR is. LGW is only 15 minutes further than Heathrow by rail, and STN is only 30-35 minutes further.


I think main reason for no CLT-CDG in winter is PHL serves as the consolidating flight. Not sure there is really enough demand for the capacity as AA would have had to run an A332 or now 788. They were talking about expanding CLT season with the A321XLR which would match capacity better




Yes, that really does makes sense. Prior to COVID19 anyway, AA was operating once daily from DFW (think the second frequency was added partly for demand but also to fight off AF), PHL, MIA, and JFK, with the bulk of connections likely being flown through DFW and PHL, then MIA, with JFK being more of an O&D operation, so CLT in the mix year round would likely drive down yields. Surprising though that AA could not run ORD-CDG on a year round basis. It was, at one time, year round.


According to the ground staff at CDG, the second daily DFW flight was to fight off AF. MIA-CDG has a lot of onward connections to South America. I’ve worked those flights and it helps to know Spanish and Portuguese because there are so many people connecting to Argentina and Brazil. The last time I worked it, there were more Spanish and Portuguese speaking passengers than French! Sad that AA no longer operates ORD-CDG year-round, in the early 90s, there was talk of a second daily flight on the route, but then there was a shortage of widebodies with the Heathrow acquisition from TWA, and it never happened.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed May 27, 2020 9:18 pm

Load Factors today
DFW 63%
ORD 57%
JFK 86%
PHL 50%
MIA 57%
PHX 64%
CLT 64%
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1265731330664542209

Pretty impressive
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Wingtips56
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:38 am

AA was also trying to connect with independent French carriers at ORY; something AF moved against.

As to the 77W on RDU-LHR, could it just be a place-holder in the schedules while final adjustments for retired fleets are settled? See if it's still there Sunday morning after weekly Schedule Change runs.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
NYCAAer
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 3:13 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
AA was also trying to connect with independent French carriers at ORY; something AF moved against.

As to the 77W on RDU-LHR, could it just be a place-holder in the schedules while final adjustments for retired fleets are settled? See if it's still there Sunday morning after weekly Schedule Change runs.


Yes, AA was trying to connect with the now defunct Air Liberté at ORY.

It could be a place-holder for the 77W on RDU-LHR, it would make so much more sense to operate the aircraft on a route to LAX, MIA, JFK, ORD or DFW.
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 12:51 pm

Greece is getting rid of all quarantines or need for testing for visitors so things are looking very good for ORD - ATH!
 
panamair
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 2:00 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Greece is getting rid of all quarantines or need for testing for visitors so things are looking very good for ORD - ATH!


It is not clear at this point whether some of these EU countries reopening will accept American tourists immediately or only in later phases. Border restrictions are being lifted but in many cases, countries are only still allowing citizens/residents from within the Schengen zone or from countries with similar infection rates.
 
bigb
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 3:43 am

PSA, Piedmont and Envoy seeing increases to scheduled flying in July.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 4:32 am

row44seatk wrote:
Speaking of 777-300ER aircraft utilization, I'm noticing daily 8:45am MIA-DFW beginning June 4th. And then there's a 772 departing an hour later! This among 8 non-stops. :roll:


I'm thinking this might be fleet rotation movements, similar to the 788/9 flights between DFW and ORD/LAX.
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chonetsao
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 9:03 am

panamair wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Greece is getting rid of all quarantines or need for testing for visitors so things are looking very good for ORD - ATH!


It is not clear at this point whether some of these EU countries reopening will accept American tourists immediately or only in later phases. Border restrictions are being lifted but in many cases, countries are only still allowing citizens/residents from within the Schengen zone or from countries with similar infection rates.


Yes that is very true. To add some points, firstly it depends on two factors:
1, When US will be opening up for EU citizens to visit; and
2, When European will be open up for non-EU citizens.

Currently the rumour on European newspaper are European country will only open up travel within the frame work of EU+3 (UK, Norway and Switzerland) at the beginning of the summer season (possible 15th June, but there are still a question mark on UK as UK is to impose 14 days quarantine which EU does not like). For other countries, the earliest date to open is the late summer season (as per Spanish and Italian reports), so that pushes the dates to August or even September. And knowing EU, my speculation is that it will be a coordinated response among EU governments. That means if Greece is to open for US citizens, US needs to open for all of the EU countries (at lease Schengen countries) in the same time. Otherwise, Greece would risk itself being cut off from other Schengen countries. So far EU is still discussing the process of opening up, more details should be known by middle of June. But first the internal EU travel needs to be sorted out beforehand. US-EU travel will be next but we sadly will miss a large part of the summer US-EU transatlantic season.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 2:24 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Load Factors today
DFW 63%
ORD 57%
JFK 86%
PHL 50%
MIA 57%
PHX 64%
CLT 64%
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1265731330664542209

Pretty impressive



Arent they flying single digit number of flights out of JFK?

Not to rain on the parade...There are hopeful trends
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 2:32 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Load Factors today
DFW 63%
ORD 57%
JFK 86%
PHL 50%
MIA 57%
PHX 64%
CLT 64%
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1265731330664542209

Pretty impressive



Arent they flying single digit number of flights out of JFK?

Not to rain on the parade...There are hopeful trends


Yep, although most carriers drew down NYC to bare bones

Good signs nevertheless, as ideally you wouldn't necessarily want load factors in the 80s right now to keep your customers happy. I believe they are also capping capacity at 85% now on all flights.
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Miamiairport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 10:14 pm

Load factor of 57% out of MIA? I’ve been flying 2-3 x per week in May and the number of low load flights I’ve been on is essentially zero in and out of MIA, including this fully loaded 738 from PHL I’m on now.
 
Brickell305
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri May 29, 2020 10:21 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Load factor of 57% out of MIA? I’ve been flying 2-3 x per week in May and the number of low load flights I’ve been on is essentially zero in and out of MIA, including this fully loaded 738 from PHL I’m on now.

Which is a good example of why we should always defer to actual data instead of anecdotal evidence.
 
bigb
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 12:00 am

Miamiairport wrote:
Load factor of 57% out of MIA? I’ve been flying 2-3 x per week in May and the number of low load flights I’ve been on is essentially zero in and out of MIA, including this fully loaded 738 from PHL I’m on now.


I can confirm that number 57% is correct. That’s the number for today as well.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat May 30, 2020 4:36 am

Miamiairport wrote:
Load factor of 57% out of MIA? I’ve been flying 2-3 x per week in May and the number of low load flights I’ve been on is essentially zero in and out of MIA, including this fully loaded 738 from PHL I’m on now.


With the reduced overflying of hubs, hub to hub flights
like MIA-PHL are the most likely to be full.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:54 pm

AA is ending all flights out of OAK effective June 3, 2020. The OAG thread had AA ending PHX-OAK in August, but it's been moved up.

https://twitter.com/timjue/status/1267527968630247424
 
tootallsd
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:02 pm

I just received an email promotion from AA (June 1). Low price destinations coupled with a promotion of double mileage (requires registration). Buy by June 30th -- travel through Sept 22.

https://www.aa.com/i18n/plan-travel/sum ... _NWSLTR_LP
 
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ojjunior
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:56 am

Well
I was looking for AA non stop service GRU-LAX and looks like they will restart by Oct, 25th with ridiculously low prices:

$269 or 40K miles in Y r/t nonstop-B789

Previous dates for same price/miles with 1 stop at DFW as from Jul, 19th.

Very good deals IMO.
 
AAflyguy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:00 am

Ishrion wrote:
AA is ending all flights out of OAK effective June 3, 2020. The OAG thread had AA ending PHX-OAK in August, but it's been moved up.

https://twitter.com/timjue/status/1267527968630247424


AA is operating 1x daily PHX-OAK right now vs 3-4x daily before coronavirus. It was going to be suspended until the middle of August starting June 3. Now it is not resuming. Virtually every market for AA is well below capacity levels operating 3 months ago. Financial performance of routes is varying degrees of weak across its network. AA decides to end OAK service now, of all times? I don't get it. Makes little sense to me. And their reason is total BS. Their OAK flights are operating at or near the self-imposed reduced capacity levels. Using COVID-19 as an excuse because it is not due to low demand. Demand is steadily increasing. But, they didn't consult me before making the final decision. LOL

AAflyguy
 
rojo
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:15 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Load Factors today
DFW 63%
ORD 57%
JFK 86%
PHL 50%
MIA 57%
PHX 64%
CLT 64%
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1265731330664542209

Pretty impressive


How can AA hit 86% Load Factor in JFK if all their flights are limited to 85% capacity for social distancing? :scratchchin:

They will probably justify saying it is based on LID... then your true LF is lower (based on aircraft capacity).
LF numbers don't say much unless you show other metrics: ASM's, RPM's and Total Revenue. Even better if we can compare all of them to the same day last year.
 
chonetsao
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:20 pm

rojo wrote:
How can AA hit 86% Load Factor in JFK if all their flights are limited to 85% capacity for social distancing? :scratchchin:

They will probably justify saying it is based on LID... then your true LF is lower (based on aircraft capacity).
LF numbers don't say much unless you show other metrics: ASM's, RPM's and Total Revenue. Even better if we can compare all of them to the same day last year.


Is that because regional aircraft is not strict on 85% mark since the load factor did not specify whether it is mainline or regional or combined? If it is combined load factor maybe the regionals number is higher than 85%?
 
Miamiairport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:24 pm

I repeat flights are not being restricted due to social distancing. If there is a butt waiting for every seat that flight will go out completely full. IME the hub to hub flights seem to be jammed packed, no surprise there.

JFK is a strange one considering the small amount of International flying and the significant measures that would restrict travel to the NYC area. Some states even have restrictions for people coming from New York. If I lived back in NYC I certainly would have wanted to gotten out a long time ago.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:27 pm

AAflyguy wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA is ending all flights out of OAK effective June 3, 2020. The OAG thread had AA ending PHX-OAK in August, but it's been moved up.

https://twitter.com/timjue/status/1267527968630247424


AA is operating 1x daily PHX-OAK right now vs 3-4x daily before coronavirus. It was going to be suspended until the middle of August starting June 3. Now it is not resuming. Virtually every market for AA is well below capacity levels operating 3 months ago. Financial performance of routes is varying degrees of weak across its network. AA decides to end OAK service now, of all times? I don't get it. Makes little sense to me. And their reason is total BS. Their OAK flights are operating at or near the self-imposed reduced capacity levels. Using COVID-19 as an excuse because it is not due to low demand. Demand is steadily increasing. But, they didn't consult me before making the final decision. LOL

AAflyguy



So you are saying AA is not cutting OAK to save money but for some other nefarious reason?
 
illinicmi
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:25 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
AAflyguy wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA is ending all flights out of OAK effective June 3, 2020. The OAG thread had AA ending PHX-OAK in August, but it's been moved up.

https://twitter.com/timjue/status/1267527968630247424


AA is operating 1x daily PHX-OAK right now vs 3-4x daily before coronavirus. It was going to be suspended until the middle of August starting June 3. Now it is not resuming. Virtually every market for AA is well below capacity levels operating 3 months ago. Financial performance of routes is varying degrees of weak across its network. AA decides to end OAK service now, of all times? I don't get it. Makes little sense to me. And their reason is total BS. Their OAK flights are operating at or near the self-imposed reduced capacity levels. Using COVID-19 as an excuse because it is not due to low demand. Demand is steadily increasing. But, they didn't consult me before making the final decision. LOL

AAflyguy



So you are saying AA is not cutting OAK to save money but for some other nefarious reason?


None of the Big 3 will serve OAK (although DL is supposedly temporary). B6 left in what, March?

I'm sure it's money. Guess they figure SFO and SJC can handle it.
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:40 pm

rojo wrote:
How can AA hit 86% Load Factor in JFK if all their flights are limited to 85% capacity for social distancing? :scratchchin:


The flights are not limited to 85% capacity. They're packing the planes when possible, except for blocking one seat in F for the #2 FA and possibly one in the back for another on duty FA.
 
rojo
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 7:56 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
rojo wrote:
How can AA hit 86% Load Factor in JFK if all their flights are limited to 85% capacity for social distancing? :scratchchin:


The flights are not limited to 85% capacity. They're packing the planes when possible, except for blocking one seat in F for the #2 FA and possibly one in the back for another on duty FA.


https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/american-airlines-shows-off-new-cleaning-and-safety-procedures/2369935/

Seeking to reassure passengers that flying is safe, American Airlines will keep at least 50% of middle seats empty to allow more social distancing and has been deep-cleaning planes after every flight.

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/airline-social-distancing-policies/

American is limiting the number of passengers on all flights, though this practice will vary from one aircraft to the next, and may not result in all middle seats being unoccupied.

As usual, it is just a marketing tactic from AA to claim they will limit the number of passengers on all flights (with limits by aircraft type), yet they are packing the planes when possible...
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 583
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:22 pm

Not to mention there's no real "deep cleaning" going on. My flight tonight is on a 738 with about 1.15 hour turn. No way in 35-40 minutes can a plane get a "deep clean." That would include shampooing the carpet, a complete wipe down, scrubbing the lavs, etc. Nor do I expect airlines "deep clean" after a 3 hour flight.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:50 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
I repeat flights are not being restricted due to social distancing. If there is a butt waiting for every seat that flight will go out completely full. IME the hub to hub flights seem to be jammed packed, no surprise there.

JFK is a strange one considering the small amount of International flying and the significant measures that would restrict travel to the NYC area. Some states even have restrictions for people coming from New York. If I lived back in NYC I certainly would have wanted to gotten out a long time ago.


AA is only operating 1 x daily form JFK to LAX, MIA, and CLT. Haven't checked the regionals but I don't think they are operating. States really don't have restrictions on people coming from NYC any longer and stop making it sound like NYC is the epicenter, because it really isn't at the moment. There is more spread in Southern states. Most people who wanted to get out of NYC already did, a long time ago.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:58 pm

illinicmi wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
AAflyguy wrote:

AA is operating 1x daily PHX-OAK right now vs 3-4x daily before coronavirus. It was going to be suspended until the middle of August starting June 3. Now it is not resuming. Virtually every market for AA is well below capacity levels operating 3 months ago. Financial performance of routes is varying degrees of weak across its network. AA decides to end OAK service now, of all times? I don't get it. Makes little sense to me. And their reason is total BS. Their OAK flights are operating at or near the self-imposed reduced capacity levels. Using COVID-19 as an excuse because it is not due to low demand. Demand is steadily increasing. But, they didn't consult me before making the final decision. LOL

AAflyguy



So you are saying AA is not cutting OAK to save money but for some other nefarious reason?


None of the Big 3 will serve OAK (although DL is supposedly temporary). B6 left in what, March?

I'm sure it's money. Guess they figure SFO and SJC can handle it.


They figure they don't lose enough business to make it worthwhile in this environment to operate at another airport that's so close to SFO. Southwest must be licking their chops though - they're already better positioned than the other airlines to recover and grow as the economy rebounds, and now most of their competition is deciding they don't want to compete at an important station for WN.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:15 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
I repeat flights are not being restricted due to social distancing. If there is a butt waiting for every seat that flight will go out completely full. IME the hub to hub flights seem to be jammed packed, no surprise there.

JFK is a strange one considering the small amount of International flying and the significant measures that would restrict travel to the NYC area. Some states even have restrictions for people coming from New York. If I lived back in NYC I certainly would have wanted to gotten out a long time ago.


AA is only operating 1 x daily form JFK to LAX, MIA, and CLT. Haven't checked the regionals but I don't think they are operating. States really don't have restrictions on people coming from NYC any longer and stop making it sound like NYC is the epicenter, because it really isn't at the moment. There is more spread in Southern states. Most people who wanted to get out of NYC already did, a long time ago.


I would doubt there's much tourism in NYC now. And I seriously doubt many companies are sending their people to NYC. JFK might serve LI but again I doubt many companies are doing business travel to LI (or Eastern NJ). Don't bitch at me. Go complain to CNN that gives the idea that people are dying left and right of COVID 19. Not to mention the stories of homeless everywhere. Whether you like it or not that's going to impact someone's decision to fly to New York City.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:37 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
They figure they don't lose enough business to make it worthwhile in this environment to operate at another airport that's so close to SFO. Southwest must be licking their chops though - they're already better positioned than the other airlines to recover and grow as the economy rebounds, and now most of their competition is deciding they don't want to compete at an important station for WN.


Flights at SFO and SJC have always competed with WN at OAK. AA doesn't need to fly to OAK (specifically) to compete with WN.

It's the same thing with LGA/EWR/JFK, MDW/ORD, and IAH/HOU. If people weren't willing to drive across town WN's strategy of using secondary airports never would have worked - and surely you can see it did.
 
USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:44 pm

I know OAK-DFW ended last year, but when did OAK-LAX end? I swore they did this as well.

Sad to see the station close, but I would be wiling to bet that AA will be back eventually in a better economy. I'd be willing to bet loads were fine, but yields were terrible and AA simply couldn't compete against WN's schedule. I have friends in the East Bay without cars that will absolutely not fly out of SFO for any reason, and SJC isn't really easy to get to at the moment without a car. It's a pretty big market to ignore, IMO.

Makes me wonder if LGB is next.
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ucdtim17
Posts: 616
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:13 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I know OAK-DFW ended last year, but when did OAK-LAX end? I swore they did this as well.

Sad to see the station close, but I would be wiling to bet that AA will be back eventually in a better economy. I'd be willing to bet loads were fine, but yields were terrible and AA simply couldn't compete against WN's schedule. I have friends in the East Bay without cars that will absolutely not fly out of SFO for any reason, and SJC isn't really easy to get to at the moment without a car. It's a pretty big market to ignore, IMO.

Makes me wonder if LGB is next.


AA has not flown OAK-LAX recently; I don't know if they ever have. DL ended OAK-LAX recently. Like with previous economic downturns, airlines are consolidating at hubs, so given the added severity and likely length of this downturn, it's not surprising that airlines are closing up shop at OAK. As you said, they'll likely begin to return when the demand returns in a year or two (or three).
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1901
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:20 am

Miamiairport wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
I repeat flights are not being restricted due to social distancing. If there is a butt waiting for every seat that flight will go out completely full. IME the hub to hub flights seem to be jammed packed, no surprise there.

JFK is a strange one considering the small amount of International flying and the significant measures that would restrict travel to the NYC area. Some states even have restrictions for people coming from New York. If I lived back in NYC I certainly would have wanted to gotten out a long time ago.


AA is only operating 1 x daily form JFK to LAX, MIA, and CLT. Haven't checked the regionals but I don't think they are operating. States really don't have restrictions on people coming from NYC any longer and stop making it sound like NYC is the epicenter, because it really isn't at the moment. There is more spread in Southern states. Most people who wanted to get out of NYC already did, a long time ago.


I would doubt there's much tourism in NYC now. And I seriously doubt many companies are sending their people to NYC. JFK might serve LI but again I doubt many companies are doing business travel to LI (or Eastern NJ). Don't bitch at me. Go complain to CNN that gives the idea that people are dying left and right of COVID 19. Not to mention the stories of homeless everywhere. Whether you like it or not that's going to impact someone's decision to fly to New York City.


There's little to no travel to or from NYC at the moment, and what little there is is basically essential travel and not much more. That's true. Think you were the one bitching, not me.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1072
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:41 am

rojo wrote:
How can AA hit 86% Load Factor in JFK if all their flights are limited to 85% capacity for social distancing? :scratchchin:

They will probably justify saying it is based on LID... then your true LF is lower (based on aircraft capacity).
LF numbers don't say much unless you show other metrics: ASM's, RPM's and Total Revenue. Even better if we can compare all of them to the same day last year.


I'm reading that as to mean 86 percent of that 85 percent available capacity for sale as opposed to 86 percent of actual capacity.

Example:

85 percent of 100 = 85
86 percent of 85 = 73

If I'm doing my math correctly, the actual percentage of seats filled is 73 percent of all seats, available for sale or not.
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