Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
727LOVER
Posts: 8614
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:54 am

STT757 wrote:

In 1992 US Air flew LGA-MCO, RSW, FLL, MIA, TPA and EWR-MCO.

http://www.departedflights.com/US120292p26.html


They flew LGA-SRQ also...our flight woul generally start in mid-February


http://www.departedflights.com/SRQ95p1.html
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:37 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Unenforceable quarantine restrictions likely to have little effect on leisure demand.


Based upon some of the sheer stupidity I see people doing base upon the fear mongering drummed up by MSM (particularly CNN) I think it will cramp leisure demand. Time will tell. The FL Governor is being pressured to put some restrictions back and the Miami Beach mayor is so stupid he tried to keep Miami Beach closed until a vaccine was introduced. Never under estimate politicians making stupid decisions based upon CNN hype and the people following right along. Seeing people jogging in the Miami 95 degree heat with a mask on just boggles my imagination.

If CNN (and other news outlet including blogs) gives the impression people are going to be forced to stay home for 14 days after visiting FL my belief in the intelligence of the human race is so low I see the sheep going right along.


So you dont think the virus is a treat? You dont think people should wear masks to at least minimize the potential of the spread?


Not when they are jogging alone in 95 degree heat. But if you want to it's a free country. And again, if you are under age 65 and in good health you have a greater chance of dying in an automobile accident. So I assume if you are in the that category you will now walk everywhere. I don't consider lung cancer a treat but since I'm a non smoker and in good health (because I take responsibility for my health) I don't stay awake at night worrying that I'll be diagnosed with lung cancer.
 
RemoFlyer
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:22 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:

Based upon some of the sheer stupidity I see people doing base upon the fear mongering drummed up by MSM (particularly CNN) I think it will cramp leisure demand. Time will tell. The FL Governor is being pressured to put some restrictions back and the Miami Beach mayor is so stupid he tried to keep Miami Beach closed until a vaccine was introduced. Never under estimate politicians making stupid decisions based upon CNN hype and the people following right along. Seeing people jogging in the Miami 95 degree heat with a mask on just boggles my imagination.

If CNN (and other news outlet including blogs) gives the impression people are going to be forced to stay home for 14 days after visiting FL my belief in the intelligence of the human race is so low I see the sheep going right along.


So you dont think the virus is a treat? You dont think people should wear masks to at least minimize the potential of the spread?


Not when they are jogging alone in 95 degree heat. But if you want to it's a free country. And again, if you are under age 65 and in good health you have a greater chance of dying in an automobile accident. So I assume if you are in the that category you will now walk everywhere. I don't consider lung cancer a treat but since I'm a non smoker and in good health (because I take responsibility for my health) I don't stay awake at night worrying that I'll be diagnosed with lung cancer.


Lung cancer is not a contagious disease, COVID 19 is extremely contagious, hence the masks in crowded spaces become a necessity. The current alarming spread in the sun-belt and western states is testimony to the dangers of the nonsensical thinking that the virus can be wished away.

However, we should limit medical and political thought to other threads, this is an AA network thread.
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 432
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:49 pm

RemoFlyer wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:

So you dont think the virus is a treat? You dont think people should wear masks to at least minimize the potential of the spread?


Not when they are jogging alone in 95 degree heat. But if you want to it's a free country. And again, if you are under age 65 and in good health you have a greater chance of dying in an automobile accident. So I assume if you are in the that category you will now walk everywhere. I don't consider lung cancer a treat but since I'm a non smoker and in good health (because I take responsibility for my health) I don't stay awake at night worrying that I'll be diagnosed with lung cancer.


Lung cancer is not a contagious disease, COVID 19 is extremely contagious, hence the masks in crowded spaces become a necessity. The current alarming spread in the sun-belt and western states is testimony to the dangers of the nonsensical thinking that the virus can be wished away.

However, we should limit medical and political thought to other threads, this is an AA network thread.

Well said Remo, on all points.
 
washingtonflyer
Posts: 1609
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:54 pm

Ive been flying the same route every week for the past three weeks: DCA-PHL-MKE MKE-ORD-DCA. It has been more crowded each week. PHL-MKE has basically been 100% full last two trips.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5119
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:43 pm

Welp the thread got deleted twice, so I'll try and post it here. I thought I cleared up the issues the first time but alas:

Vasu did an interview with Plane Business here are the highlights:
-Outside of NYC & LA (their smallest hubs), the rest of the network generates a 112% revenue premium on the industry
-Still figuring out LA & NYC, but LA is being boosted by AS
-Were planning to shrink heavily until DL & UA ruined connectivity through their hubs giving AA an opening
-Break even load factor is 25% at $35 fuel, got as low as 9% (given CARES act grant & other cost cutting measures)
-Still expects minimal travel through September from large corporates, tech and mid-sized companies might increase around that time
-Thinks it's a difficult road for UA, had discussions in the past with UA network about how important international was to their bottom line
-Also thinks it could be difficult for DL with AS & B6 pressure
-The solution to coming out of this crisis is not to shrink (to an extent), he believes that will consign them to bankruptcy
-Is prepared for demand to collapse again, they have lots of experience now with last minute changes due to MAX groundings. Lots of ability to cut if loads go under 25%

https://www.planebusiness.com/
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5503
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:46 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Welp the thread got deleted twice, so I'll try and post it here. I thought I cleared up the issues the first time but alas:

-Break even load factor is 25% at $35 fuel, got as low as 9% (given CARES act grant & other cost cutting measures)



The question becomes what happens on Oct 1 when CARES act grant expires? What's the BELF then?
 
User avatar
Rookie87
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:33 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:01 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Welp the thread got deleted twice, so I'll try and post it here. I thought I cleared up the issues the first time but alas:

-Break even load factor is 25% at $35 fuel, got as low as 9% (given CARES act grant & other cost cutting measures)



The question becomes what happens on Oct 1 when CARES act grant expires? What's the BELF then?


You would think by then things should even out. Early retirements have been taken in the thousands from what I'm hearing, management cuts being made form the top down, more employees taking leaves of absences. Seems like AA is doing their best to trim the fat they've carried for a long time and coming through this just fine. Let's see what happens in July/August before thinking about October though.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26152
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:33 am

It’s fascinating to me how full a domestic network AA is running. Even stuff like MIA-XNA/OKC/TYS that feels pretty thin is flying right now, with minimal international connections and no cruise ships! Also kind of wonder what it’ll mean for airport traffic figures - DFW and CLT might be on top? And MIA and PHL pushing ahead of others.
a.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 538
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:00 am

AA is so lucky to have DFW and CLT right now.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2666
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:14 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
It’s fascinating to me how full a domestic network AA is running. Even stuff like MIA-XNA/OKC/TYS that feels pretty thin is flying right now, with minimal international connections and no cruise ships! Also kind of wonder what it’ll mean for airport traffic figures - DFW and CLT might be on top? And MIA and PHL pushing ahead of others.


For July 2020, AA is running 72% of domestic capacity out of MIA compared to July 2019. This is the most % of original capacity out of AA's 15 largest airports:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 6561fb2c6c

It makes sense. Everyone's swarming to Florida. New routes added by JetBlue and Frontier are to Florida.
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:12 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Everyone's swarming to Florida. New routes added by JetBlue and Frontier are to Florida.


Why is this? Makes absolutely no sense to me, especially with the COVID explosion happening there, I would think that it should be cratering now, again, regardless of any short-term bubble in weeks past. I mean...it ain't cuz people are going to Disney et al in the MCO area! And as said up-thread, it also isn't cruise ship traffic. I just don't get what the huge draw of FL is.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2666
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:36 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Everyone's swarming to Florida. New routes added by JetBlue and Frontier are to Florida.


Why is this? Makes absolutely no sense to me, especially with the COVID explosion happening there, I would think that it should be cratering now, again, regardless of any short-term bubble in weeks past. I mean...it ain't cuz people are going to Disney et al in the MCO area! And as said up-thread, it also isn't cruise ship traffic. I just don't get what the huge draw of FL is.


Cause and effect.

Americans are basically banned everywhere and Hawaii has the 14-day quarantine, so people are going to Florida for beaches. Florida's relatively cheap and close by since it's just a domestic flight away. As more people travel to Florida and more people search for flights or hotels in Florida, airlines will pick up on this trend and add more flights.

Both Frontier and JetBlue added their routes before the cases grew exponentially these past few days.

However, because cases are significantly spiking, this may put an end to these airlines' plans.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:16 pm

The Florida governor has closed bars and clubs again. The mayor Miami Beach is closing the beach again for the July 4th weekend and that may be extended. No beaches, no nightlife and let's see what Florida traffic looks. It's not like it's winter and 20 degrees in the NE and 80 degrees with no humidity in FL. The flights to MIA have been full of young people and again I contend young people with more money on their hands because of CARES and no job. They want the beaches and nightlife. Let's see what happens when there's no bars, no clubs, no beach, and no more $600 a week in extra Unemployment compensation.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5065
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:12 pm

Ishrion wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Everyone's swarming to Florida. New routes added by JetBlue and Frontier are to Florida.


Why is this? Makes absolutely no sense to me, especially with the COVID explosion happening there, I would think that it should be cratering now, again, regardless of any short-term bubble in weeks past. I mean...it ain't cuz people are going to Disney et al in the MCO area! And as said up-thread, it also isn't cruise ship traffic. I just don't get what the huge draw of FL is.


Cause and effect.

Americans are basically banned everywhere and Hawaii has the 14-day quarantine, so people are going to Florida for beaches. Florida's relatively cheap and close by since it's just a domestic flight away. As more people travel to Florida and more people search for flights or hotels in Florida, airlines will pick up on this trend and add more flights.

Both Frontier and JetBlue added their routes before the cases grew exponentially these past few days.

However, because cases are significantly spiking, this may put an end to these airlines' plans.


Apparently, JetBlue in the past few days have seen bookings down and cancellations up. No doubt related to cuomo announcement and the record breaking cases in Florida and bars closing. At current pace of growth, major population centers like Miami dade, Tampa and orlando will have to impose stay at home orders even if governor doesn’t impose state wide lockdown.

The Florida gravy train of past few weeks is over.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24507
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:02 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Vasu did an interview with Plane Business here are the highlights:


I read the whole thing.

Bunch of rambling, but the bottom line to me as Vasu confirmed was that AA had to zig when DL and UA zagged. Their option was to go all out and swing for the fences as shrinking the airline instead would consign them to bankruptcy with $40bil in debt.

They might still end up bankrupt, but at least they are comfortable knowing they gave it a shot by doing something else.

Though as mentioned in the interview there are long term issues that need to be resolved. The industry will be 25-50% down year over year so need to figure what happens with labor, pull cost down of which 80% is fixed, deal with inherent weakness in key markets like NY & LA, corporate travel in big coastal cities won’t be back for a while, and international travel is shot, etc.

Basically AA needs to reinvent itself all the while dealing with that massive debt pile.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
HardeesBiscuit
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:27 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Everyone's swarming to Florida. New routes added by JetBlue and Frontier are to Florida.


Why is this? Makes absolutely no sense to me, especially with the COVID explosion happening there, I would think that it should be cratering now, again, regardless of any short-term bubble in weeks past. I mean...it ain't cuz people are going to Disney et al in the MCO area! And as said up-thread, it also isn't cruise ship traffic. I just don't get what the huge draw of FL is.

It hasn't exploded throughout the whole state it's mostly been in South Florida, MIA FLL. I have no problem going to Florida right now
 
PI4EVR
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:14 pm

HardeesBiscuit wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Everyone's swarming to Florida. New routes added by JetBlue and Frontier are to Florida.


Why is this? Makes absolutely no sense to me, especially with the COVID explosion happening there, I would think that it should be cratering now, again, regardless of any short-term bubble in weeks past. I mean...it ain't cuz people are going to Disney et al in the MCO area! And as said up-thread, it also isn't cruise ship traffic. I just don't get what the huge draw of FL is.

It hasn't exploded throughout the whole state it's mostly been in South Florida, MIA FLL. I have no problem going to Florida right now

Put some gravy on that biscuit and stay home.
10K+ positive test results yesterday, with significant increases in the Tampa/Clearwater/St.Pete area in addition to Orlando/Cocoa Beach/Melbourne area and most of South Florida south of West Palm. Masks required now when out in public in the 3 immediate county areas of Tampa Bay.
Bars are closed and much less beach traffic this week on both the Atlantic and Gulf coast areas and more visible use of masks this weekend finally! And the heat index is 100+ for the 2nd week in a row and little rain to cool things down. Stay where you are.
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:36 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:19 pm

AA has an international route announcement coming out soon to announce routes that will not be returning next year. Based on this announcement, you should see changes domestically to coincide.

https://viewfromthewing.com/american-ai ... ardingArea
 
OB1504
Posts: 3933
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:29 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Everyone's swarming to Florida. New routes added by JetBlue and Frontier are to Florida.


Why is this? Makes absolutely no sense to me, especially with the COVID explosion happening there, I would think that it should be cratering now, again, regardless of any short-term bubble in weeks past. I mean...it ain't cuz people are going to Disney et al in the MCO area! And as said up-thread, it also isn't cruise ship traffic. I just don't get what the huge draw of FL is.


Or perhaps Florida is spiking because everyone’s swarming here.
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 781
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:38 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Welp the thread got deleted twice, so I'll try and post it here. I thought I cleared up the issues the first time but alas:

-Break even load factor is 25% at $35 fuel, got as low as 9% (given CARES act grant & other cost cutting measures)



The question becomes what happens on Oct 1 when CARES act grant expires? What's the BELF then?


You would think by then things should even out. Early retirements have been taken in the thousands from what I'm hearing, management cuts being made form the top down, more employees taking leaves of absences. Seems like AA is doing their best to trim the fat they've carried for a long time and coming through this just fine. Let's see what happens in July/August before thinking about October though.


Except among the flight attendant work group. Only about 875 or so took a buyout package, although many have taken leaves. Layoffs are going to hit the flight attendants hard if more don’t take retirement. There are a lot of flight attendants eligible for retirement, but so far the really senior ones are sticking around.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:38 am

MrPeanut wrote:
AA has an international route announcement coming out soon to announce routes that will not be returning next year. Based on this announcement, you should see changes domestically to coincide.

https://viewfromthewing.com/american-ai ... ardingArea


What routes were doing bad even before COVID? I know LA to China/South America were not doing as well. Any others?
 
chonetsao
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:07 am

rjbesikof wrote:
MrPeanut wrote:
AA has an international route announcement coming out soon to announce routes that will not be returning next year. Based on this announcement, you should see changes domestically to coincide.

https://viewfromthewing.com/american-ai ... ardingArea


What routes were doing bad even before COVID? I know LA to China/South America were not doing as well. Any others?


It could be seasonal routes like Bologna and Venice. Now Venice is going to ban the cruise ships, summer demand will be dropped by a large margin.
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 781
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:59 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
MrPeanut wrote:
AA has an international route announcement coming out soon to announce routes that will not be returning next year. Based on this announcement, you should see changes domestically to coincide.

https://viewfromthewing.com/american-ai ... ardingArea


What routes were doing bad even before COVID? I know LA to China/South America were not doing as well. Any others?


LAX to China and South America haven’t been performing well, I suspect that much of AA’s transatlantic route network will become even more LHR-centric, since they can funnel passengers onto BA to cities that might no longer be served by AA metal. With fewer widebody aircraft, I think a lot of seasonal Europe flying will be gone for a while. AA has generally been weaker in Continental Europe.
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:41 pm

Ishrion wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Everyone's swarming to Florida. New routes added by JetBlue and Frontier are to Florida.


Why is this? Makes absolutely no sense to me, especially with the COVID explosion happening there, I would think that it should be cratering now, again, regardless of any short-term bubble in weeks past. I mean...it ain't cuz people are going to Disney et al in the MCO area! And as said up-thread, it also isn't cruise ship traffic. I just don't get what the huge draw of FL is.


Cause and effect.

Americans are basically banned everywhere and Hawaii has the 14-day quarantine, so people are going to Florida for beaches. Florida's relatively cheap and close by since it's just a domestic flight away. As more people travel to Florida and more people search for flights or hotels in Florida, airlines will pick up on this trend and add more flights.

Both Frontier and JetBlue added their routes before the cases grew exponentially these past few days.

However, because cases are significantly spiking, this may put an end to these airlines' plans.


Ah, yes, well explained, thanks. Although heat/humidity in FL in the summer ain't my cup of tea, to each his own.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:43 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
The Florida governor has closed bars and clubs again. The mayor Miami Beach is closing the beach again for the July 4th weekend and that may be extended. No beaches, no nightlife and let's see what Florida traffic looks. It's not like it's winter and 20 degrees in the NE and 80 degrees with no humidity in FL. The flights to MIA have been full of young people and again I contend young people with more money on their hands because of CARES and no job. They want the beaches and nightlife. Let's see what happens when there's no bars, no clubs, no beach, and no more $600 a week in extra Unemployment compensation.


WELL SAID. Spot on.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1472
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:51 pm

HardeesBiscuit wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Everyone's swarming to Florida. New routes added by JetBlue and Frontier are to Florida.


Why is this? Makes absolutely no sense to me, especially with the COVID explosion happening there, I would think that it should be cratering now, again, regardless of any short-term bubble in weeks past. I mean...it ain't cuz people are going to Disney et al in the MCO area! And as said up-thread, it also isn't cruise ship traffic. I just don't get what the huge draw of FL is.

It hasn't exploded throughout the whole state it's mostly been in South Florida, MIA FLL. I have no problem going to Florida right now


Enjoy yourself.

Maybe it hasn't exploded throughout the whole state, but it has and continues to do so in the big, popular, heavily-populated areas where all the "young people" want to go for beaches and booze and partying, turning all those areas into super-spreading breeding grounds, because they're all invincible and don't give a good goddamn for anyone but themselves...how many have been on TV saying crap like "well I'm 25 and not worried about it"? Then throw in the local wacko residents with their screaming that "it's my body, my choice, and it's my right to not wear a mask" and I just want to throw up.

Sorry to digress from the thread topic but I had to get that rant off my chest. Back to AA network info...
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2666
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:25 pm

MrPeanut wrote:
AA has an international route announcement coming out soon to announce routes that will not be returning next year. Based on this announcement, you should see changes domestically to coincide.

https://viewfromthewing.com/american-ai ... ardingArea


Speculation for routes in Summer 2021:
- PHL-CMN seems to be out the window.
- ORD-KRK seems to be gone already, if not, it'll be a shorter season.
- DFW-MUC dropped/reduced.
- PHL-EDI/SNN dropped or reduced frequencies
- PHL-TXL shifts to BER and decreases frequencies
- ORD-VCE/PRG/BUD dropped?

Questions:
- What happened to SEA-LHR?
- Will SEA-BLR still go through?
- Is DFW-TLV still set for September 2021?
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:38 pm

Big increases in other city others than MIA and FLL. That said young people are young people. Most do not know anyone that has died or even hospitalized of COVID-19. Heck I'm 60 and I have 3 brothers age 58-64 and none of us know anyone afflicted or know anyone that knows someone that is afflicted. Ultimately the percentage of the population seriously effected is minuscule and a sizable number of those very old people. Young people by nature haven't experience death up close like seeing a parent, sibling, aunt/uncle, etc die.

What would slow down traffic to FL, particularly full AA flights to MIA (and also full B6 flights to FLL)? Closing of nightlife and bars and the beaches. No different than what happened with FL and Spring Break. By government decree out went the massive partying. Where will the young folk go? I'd put money that as with the Spring Breakers Cancun will roll out the welcome map (flights are cheap and will be even cheaper if the ULCC expand flights there) and will not have one COVID 19 restriction. Also, if states in the NE enforce some kind of quarantine. Wouldn't be surprised if packed AA flights to MIA start to contain lots of people connecting to CUN.
 
HardeesBiscuit
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:13 pm

cathay747 wrote:
HardeesBiscuit wrote:
cathay747 wrote:

Why is this? Makes absolutely no sense to me, especially with the COVID explosion happening there, I would think that it should be cratering now, again, regardless of any short-term bubble in weeks past. I mean...it ain't cuz people are going to Disney et al in the MCO area! And as said up-thread, it also isn't cruise ship traffic. I just don't get what the huge draw of FL is.

It hasn't exploded throughout the whole state it's mostly been in South Florida, MIA FLL. I have no problem going to Florida right now


Enjoy yourself.

Maybe it hasn't exploded throughout the whole state, but it has and continues to do so in the big, popular, heavily-populated areas where all the "young people" want to go for beaches and booze and partying, turning all those areas into super-spreading breeding grounds, because they're all invincible and don't give a good goddamn for anyone but themselves...how many have been on TV saying crap like "well I'm 25 and not worried about it"? Then throw in the local wacko residents with their screaming that "it's my body, my choice, and it's my right to not wear a mask" and I just want to throw up.

Sorry to digress from the thread topic but I had to get that rant off my chest. Back to AA network info...


Plenty of reason to travel to Florida without night life booze and partying. But you seem to have a chip on your shoulder that people are traveling. Enough that you want to throw up. I don't wear a mask either unless I'm on a plane (yes I've travelled by plane during all this). AA sees the traffic and they're wisely adding flights to make $, even if it pisses you off.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3520
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:29 pm

Ishrion wrote:
- What happened to SEA-LHR?


There is no need for AA to operate SEA-LHR nonstop service with
(a) BA already serving SEA nonstop from LHR,
(b) passengers already having the ability to book BA SEA-LHR nonstop flights through AA,
(c) AS already codesharing with BA in addition to AA,
(d) BA being able to offer connections onto its SEA-LHR nonstop flights from AS flights to SEA (and vice versa), and
(e) AA already offering connections onto its LHR-CLT/ORD/DFW/LAX/PHL/PHX nonstop flights from SEA.

Ishrion wrote:
- Will SEA-BLR still go through?


BA already offers connections onto its LHR-BLR nonstop flights from SEA, and BA SEA-LHR-BLR flights are available for sale through AA.

I had also previously mentioned that JL adding SEA-HND/KIX nonstop service is a possibility if demand for additional nonstop service to Japan out of SEA is there with JL being able to offer connections onto AA and AS flights at SEA.

SEA is also in a better geographical location than AA's hubs are for connections to Japan from the Pacific Northwest, the Mountain West, and the western half of the Midwest.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2666
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:39 pm

jplatts wrote:

Ishrion wrote:
- Will SEA-BLR still go through?


BA already offers connections onto its LHR-BLR nonstop flights from SEA, and BA SEA-LHR-BLR flights are available for sale through AA.

I had also previously mentioned that JL adding SEA-HND/KIX nonstop service is a possibility if demand for additional nonstop service to Japan out of SEA is there with JL being able to offer connections onto AA and AS flights at SEA.

SEA is also in a better geographical location than AA's hubs are for connections to Japan from the Pacific Northwest, the Mountain West, and the western half of the Midwest.


There's also JAL's upcoming NRT-BLR flight. Doing SEA-NRT-BLR saves around 900 miles compared to going through LHR.
 
MKIAZ
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:46 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Vasu did an interview with Plane Business here are the highlights:

Bunch of rambling, but the bottom line to me as Vasu confirmed was that AA had to zig when DL and UA zagged. Their option was to go all out and swing for the fences as shrinking the airline instead would consign them to bankruptcy with $40bil in debt.


It really looks like they couldn't have picked a worse time to do it, too. Right as cases are ticking up fairly significantly in 3 of their major markets PHX, DFW, MIA.

It also looks like it will be quite difficult to get more airline bailout money from the house, unless the government is willing to really step it up on the stimulus/unemployment front.

Also, I don't mean to get political in here (but it's related), as it's now looking more likely in polls that we will have a new president, it seems logical that the party would want to avoid any kick-the-can-down-the-road measures in favour of taking the pain now while it is still attributable to the previous administration.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:48 pm

HardeesBiscuit wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
HardeesBiscuit wrote:
It hasn't exploded throughout the whole state it's mostly been in South Florida, MIA FLL. I have no problem going to Florida right now


Enjoy yourself.

Maybe it hasn't exploded throughout the whole state, but it has and continues to do so in the big, popular, heavily-populated areas where all the "young people" want to go for beaches and booze and partying, turning all those areas into super-spreading breeding grounds, because they're all invincible and don't give a good goddamn for anyone but themselves...how many have been on TV saying crap like "well I'm 25 and not worried about it"? Then throw in the local wacko residents with their screaming that "it's my body, my choice, and it's my right to not wear a mask" and I just want to throw up.

Sorry to digress from the thread topic but I had to get that rant off my chest. Back to AA network info...


Plenty of reason to travel to Florida without night life booze and partying. But you seem to have a chip on your shoulder that people are traveling. Enough that you want to throw up. I don't wear a mask either unless I'm on a plane (yes I've travelled by plane during all this). AA sees the traffic and they're wisely adding flights to make $, even if it pisses you off.


People go to FL during the winter time for the weather. I lived in FL for 7 years and before than made more than a 20 trips a year for nearly 20 years. In the summer time the weather here is horrible. It's our "winter" and we'd rather deal with endless humidity and non stop storms (and an occasional hurricane) for 4 month than snow, ice and freezing temperatures for 4 months. Summer time people, mostly young people come for the nightlife and beach.

Throughout the pandemic my flying in and out of MIA has not slowed down. Who do I see on these packed flights? Young people ready to party. Take away the partying and the beaches what do you have? Walking around in god awful humidity looking at boarded up bars and clubs. Not exactly an exciting memory.

Now MCO has Disney. And the weather in Orlando in the summer is far more harsh than on the coasts. Disney is not re-opening. That leaves TPA/Clearwater and Ft Myers/Naples and that crowd particularly the latter skews older. In other words take away MCO, FLL and MIA and tourism and ergo air travel take a huge hit. I don't hate anything I'm just realistic about what young people want. As I said in another thread I predict that CUN will soon be rolling out the welcome mat just like they did for Spring Breakers when several FL towns decided throngs of college kids wanting to party was not want they wanted.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3933
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:47 am

MKIAZ wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Vasu did an interview with Plane Business here are the highlights:

Bunch of rambling, but the bottom line to me as Vasu confirmed was that AA had to zig when DL and UA zagged. Their option was to go all out and swing for the fences as shrinking the airline instead would consign them to bankruptcy with $40bil in debt.


It really looks like they couldn't have picked a worse time to do it, too. Right as cases are ticking up fairly significantly in 3 of their major markets PHX, DFW, MIA.


To be fair, AA announced the schedule buildup several weeks ago before things started to deteriorate again. Time will tell if people are willing to fly to/via potential epicenters.

Miamiairport wrote:
Throughout the pandemic my flying in and out of MIA has not slowed down. Who do I see on these packed flights? Young people ready to party. Take away the partying and the beaches what do you have? Walking around in god awful humidity looking at boarded up bars and clubs. Not exactly an exciting memory.

Now MCO has Disney. And the weather in Orlando in the summer is far more harsh than on the coasts. Disney is not re-opening. That leaves TPA/Clearwater and Ft Myers/Naples and that crowd particularly the latter skews older. In other words take away MCO, FLL and MIA and tourism and ergo air travel take a huge hit. I don't hate anything I'm just realistic about what young people want. As I said in another thread I predict that CUN will soon be rolling out the welcome mat just like they did for Spring Breakers when several FL towns decided throngs of college kids wanting to party was not want they wanted.


The governor of Florida has already said that its these young people causing the current uptick, which in turn halts the reopening process and means it’ll be longer before we go back to normal. The state leadership doesn’t want the party crowd here driving up infection rates and scaring away more lucrative tourists. Even before the pandemic, cities in Florida had become increasingly unwelcoming to the spring break crowd.

Given that Europe has just announced that they will be refusing entry to Americans based on our pandemic situation, I’m not too confident that Mexico or any other Caribbean nation will be willing to roll out the red carpet just yet. A lot of these countries don’t have the desire or the capacity to have to address an outbreak imported by foreigners.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:31 pm

In South Beach during the summer time the party crowd is much more in vogue. Why? Simple it's much cheaper. And I would imagine hotels (and hotel bars until they were closed) were a lot cheaper this year. Ditto for FLL. Other parts of the state generally don't attract the party crowd like SE Florida. No state leadership might not want the crowd here but plenty of bars, clubs and lower end hotels in South Beach do. But again the closing of the bars, clubs and beaches should begin to put a real crimp on travel to SE Florida.
 
Boston757
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:39 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:03 pm

Anyone happen to know when AA will announce the international cuts for time being?
 
User avatar
FLALEFTY
Posts: 726
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:08 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Vasu did an interview with Plane Business here are the highlights:


I read the whole thing.

Bunch of rambling, but the bottom line to me as Vasu confirmed was that AA had to zig when DL and UA zagged. Their option was to go all out and swing for the fences as shrinking the airline instead would consign them to bankruptcy with $40bil in debt.

They might still end up bankrupt, but at least they are comfortable knowing they gave it a shot by doing something else.

Though as mentioned in the interview there are long term issues that need to be resolved. The industry will be 25-50% down year over year so need to figure what happens with labor, pull cost down of which 80% is fixed, deal with inherent weakness in key markets like NY & LA, corporate travel in big coastal cities won’t be back for a while, and international travel is shot, etc.

Basically AA needs to reinvent itself all the while dealing with that massive debt pile.


Well said!

At least AA will "go down swinging" if this strategy doesn't work. They have been pushed into returning to semi-normalcy by the aggressive ramp-ups of service from WN, NK and F9. With 4 major Sunbelt hubs (plus LAX), AA has to defend their turf, or lose significant long-term domestic market share.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:12 pm

Boston757 wrote:
Anyone happen to know when AA will announce the international cuts for time being?


From what I read AA just said within the next few weeks. My guess would be around August when they normally announce the expansion for international routes
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2666
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:10 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
Boston757 wrote:
Anyone happen to know when AA will announce the international cuts for time being?


From what I read AA just said within the next few weeks. My guess would be around August when they normally announce the expansion for international routes


We could hear an update regarding CLT/PHL in the next week or so considering they both haven't been approved as a gateway and the EU is banning U.S. citizens. Their long-haul flights will resume on August 5 and AA usually announces a month ahead if there's some schedule change.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2666
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:58 pm

AA announces it will apply for Seattle to Shanghai and confirms Seattle to London/Bangalore launch for 2021.

AA will "no longer operate the following routes":
- CLT-BCN/FCO/CDG
- DFW-MUC
- LAX-HKG/EZE/GRU/PEK/PVG
- MIA-BSB/MXP
- ORD-VCE
- PHL-TXL/BUD/DBV

ORD-KRK/BUD/PRG and PHL-CMN will not launch.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3712
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:17 pm

If AA wants to reliably operate these longhaul routes from SEA, they need to open up a SEA crew base - even if it is just a satellite of LAX or PHX.
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:27 pm

Well well. AA drops marginal LAX longhauls and hopes they will do better from SEA?

Me thinks they are placing too much hope on AS and ignoring the obvious that SEA is not only a smaller pie to eat from, but it already has DL as a player. Plus SEA not exactly well connected to the AA network unlike LA is.

Be fun watching how things play out in the years to come.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 781
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:38 pm

janders wrote:
Well well. AA drops marginal LAX longhauls and hopes they will do better from SEA?

Me thinks they are placing too much hope on AS and ignoring the obvious that SEA is not only a smaller pie to eat from, but it already has DL as a player. Plus SEA not exactly well connected to the AA network unlike LA is.

Be fun watching how things play out in the years to come.


Me thinks this is AA positioning themselves to acquire AS down the road, when things recover.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24507
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:06 pm

Can't say the LAX longhaul cuts are a surprise as AA has previously eluded to challenges at LAX.

Yes LAX is the U.S. largest market to Asia/Pacific region, but its has a ton of competition from both fellow US3(could LAX-PVG really support 3 US airlines?) and also from many strong foreign players.

The LAX-EZE/GRU honestly never made much sense to me, when you have hubs at DFW and MIA that can better consolidate West Coast traffic onto shorter stage length flights.

Growing SEA though seems like means to burn more cash though, not reduce the bleed or the right remedy. Sure AS feed be nice, but its not like AA has the ability to price or schedule coordinate with AS. All the relationship is a codeshare and FF partnership within OW come summer 2021.

With all the industry network shifts results of the pandemic, will be interesting to see what a steady-state will look like in a few years and how these moves are viewed in hindsight.

.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5912
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:11 pm

ABEguy wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
ABEguy wrote:

Do you really not know about all the 787s AA has coming or are you just playing dumb? In 2018 AA ordered 22 more 787-8 and 25 more 787-9. The 8s were always planned to replace the 767 fleet and the 9 were to replace the 330-300 and older 777s. The first batch of the 787-8s have started arriving in 2020, and the 787-9 will start in 2023. Nothings changed in that department except COVID accelerated the retirements of already planned to be retired aircraft.

Obviously if the demand doesn’t return in time all is subject to change, but your notion that AA won’t have the wide-bodies to fly the schedule they’re building for next summer is so wrong that I have to assume you’re being willfully ignorant.


So how does that help them fly to DBV in the spring?

What are we kidding here guys?

The company is on the verge of collapse… You guys are looking at 787s to Athens from two different cities...

It is a dummy sked that will never be flown.

The equipment isn’t there to fly it. The finances aren’t there to fly it. And, likely, the pax aren’t there to fly it


This is like a form of TDS except with AA. I laid out for you the orders of wide bodies that are showing up as we speak. Robert Isom said just 2 days ago they’re still coming. All the wide bodies parked during the crisis were already planned to be retired, plus 757 and E190. But you continue repeating yourself with what you wish would happen, not what’s actually happening.

Again maybe the 2021 summer schedule will be drawn down further if there’s no demand, but it will not be because of lack of aircraft. Read that again and repeat it as many times as you need to in order to understand.



DBV gone. Just saying
 
User avatar
UPlog
Posts: 556
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:28 pm

Interesting how London, Sydney and Tokyo end up being the core year-round long haul routes for US airlines at LAX.

Those are routes(plus PVG) both Delta and United focused on as well.
I fly your boxes
 
illinicmi
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:21 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:28 pm

Ishrion wrote:
AA announces it will apply for Seattle to Shanghai and confirms Seattle to London/Bangalore launch for 2021.

AA will "no longer operate the following routes":
- CLT-BCN/FCO/CDG
- DFW-MUC
- LAX-HKG/EZE/GRU/PEK/PVG
- MIA-BSB/MXP
- ORD-VCE
- PHL-TXL/BUD/DBV

ORD-KRK/BUD/PRG and PHL-CMN will not launch.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx


My reading of this is that in no uncertain terms, LAX will no longer be an international hub, period. Seems like pretty definitive wording, at least for the next couple of years. I mean, assuming the government approves the move of PEK to SEA, SEA will have as many AA international destinations as LAX.

So they say they want to focus on LAX domestic, but what does that mean? Especially when dealing with AS? Just feels like AA at LAX is toast outside of the core domestic routes.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5912
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:33 pm

illinicmi wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA announces it will apply for Seattle to Shanghai and confirms Seattle to London/Bangalore launch for 2021.

AA will "no longer operate the following routes":
- CLT-BCN/FCO/CDG
- DFW-MUC
- LAX-HKG/EZE/GRU/PEK/PVG
- MIA-BSB/MXP
- ORD-VCE
- PHL-TXL/BUD/DBV

ORD-KRK/BUD/PRG and PHL-CMN will not launch.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx


My reading of this is that in no uncertain terms, LAX will no longer be an international hub, period. Seems like pretty definitive wording, at least for the next couple of years. I mean, assuming the government approves the move of PEK to SEA, SEA will have as many AA international destinations as LAX.

So they say they want to focus on LAX domestic, but what does that mean? Especially when dealing with AS? Just feels like AA at LAX is toast outside of the core domestic routes.



It will look a lot like JFK/LGA

Targeted O and D focus city for a huge metropolis
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24507
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:41 pm

UPlog wrote:
Interesting how London, Sydney and Tokyo end up being the core year-round long haul routes for US airlines at LAX.

Those are routes(plus PVG) both Delta and United focused on as well.


That's because those are 3 of the top 5 largest longhaul markets from LA. Add in ICN and TPE and you have the top-5, but LON/SYD/TYO are the ones that have the yield, thus sought after.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos