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onwFan
Posts: 469
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:07 am

LAXintl wrote:
I can't see dropping SAN-LAX permanently. Its always been a big connection market.

AA still needs to work out its LAX/West Coast feed situation which has been in flux since Compass shutdown.

onwFan wrote:
SAN already has non-stops on OW to Asia (JL) and Europe (BA).


:old: They had service.

SAN has been suspended by both BA and JAL.

Who knows if/when they are resumed.

I am pretty sure one of the first (if not the first) transcontinental flight that gets resumed at SAN will be to LHR by BA. There is no question of whether it will be resumed, only when. JL also had carved out a niche for itself at SAN; and with LAX becoming less of a connecting hub for AA, I am sure NRT-SAN on JL is just a matter of time, especially given the massive OW FF base at SAN from AS.
 
DMPHL
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:33 am

onwFan wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
I can't see dropping SAN-LAX permanently. Its always been a big connection market.

AA still needs to work out its LAX/West Coast feed situation which has been in flux since Compass shutdown.

onwFan wrote:
SAN already has non-stops on OW to Asia (JL) and Europe (BA).


:old: They had service.

SAN has been suspended by both BA and JAL.

Who knows if/when they are resumed.

I am pretty sure one of the first (if not the first) transcontinental flight that gets resumed at SAN will be to LHR by BA. There is no question of whether it will be resumed, only when. JL also had carved out a niche for itself at SAN; and with LAX becoming less of a connecting hub for AA, I am sure NRT-SAN on JL is just a matter of time, especially given the massive OW FF base at SAN from AS.


SAN-NRT is also already included in the AA/JL TPAC joint venture.
 
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UPlog
Posts: 573
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:41 am

onwFan wrote:
I am pretty sure one of the first (if not the first) transcontinental flight that gets resumed at SAN will be to LHR by BA. There is no question of whether it will be resumed, only when. JL also had carved out a niche for itself at SAN; and with LAX becoming less of a connecting hub for AA, I am sure NRT-SAN on JL is just a matter of time, especially given the massive OW FF base at SAN from AS.


Sure one day maybe, but SAN is hardly a market for either BA or JL in the grand scheme of things.

Its pretty apparent what the priorities for each airline are now during COVID. According to airlineroute.net both BA and JL have added more service back to the US in the last month, but obviously not SAN.

To maybe put this in a clearer perspective, AA-BA had 5 daily flights between LAX and LHR including 2 A380s. Today they are down to single 789. The market has to return massively to place like LA, before SAN becomes a priority to add back.
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toltommy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:45 am

[list=][/list]
jplatts wrote:
Does it make sense for AA to keep the transcontinental A321s in a 102-seat 3-class config, or should AA reconfigure the transcontinental A321s to a 190-seat standard domestic config or a 158-seat config with the first class cabin being in the current transcontinental business class configuration?


This market was addressed in the AA/B6 announcement. B6 now gives AA coach flyers a product to use.
A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333 / 707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753
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Miamiairport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:11 am

toltommy wrote:
[list=][/list]
jplatts wrote:
Does it make sense for AA to keep the transcontinental A321s in a 102-seat 3-class config, or should AA reconfigure the transcontinental A321s to a 190-seat standard domestic config or a 158-seat config with the first class cabin being in the current transcontinental business class configuration?


This market was addressed in the AA/B6 announcement. B6 now gives AA coach flyers a product to use.


If the demand for premium travel wanes I can see AA reconfiguring their 321Ts possibly reducing the J cabin. Or maybe just handing over the premium market to Mint. While Hollywood A listers will still get premium travel I see lots of travel budgets being slashed for the rank and file.
 
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N62NA
Posts: 4476
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:54 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
toltommy wrote:
[list=][/list]
jplatts wrote:
Does it make sense for AA to keep the transcontinental A321s in a 102-seat 3-class config, or should AA reconfigure the transcontinental A321s to a 190-seat standard domestic config or a 158-seat config with the first class cabin being in the current transcontinental business class configuration?


This market was addressed in the AA/B6 announcement. B6 now gives AA coach flyers a product to use.


If the demand for premium travel wanes I can see AA reconfiguring their 321Ts possibly reducing the J cabin. Or maybe just handing over the premium market to Mint. While Hollywood A listers will still get premium travel I see lots of travel budgets being slashed for the rank and file.




Or... reduce a few of the frequencies out of JFK and move those 321Ts over to MIA. :-)
 
HardeesBiscuit
Posts: 30
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:17 pm

N62NA wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
toltommy wrote:
[list=][/list]

This market was addressed in the AA/B6 announcement. B6 now gives AA coach flyers a product to use.


If the demand for premium travel wanes I can see AA reconfiguring their 321Ts possibly reducing the J cabin. Or maybe just handing over the premium market to Mint. While Hollywood A listers will still get premium travel I see lots of travel budgets being slashed for the rank and file.




Or... reduce a few of the frequencies out of JFK and move those 321Ts over to MIA. :-)


in August JFK to LAX is down to 5 a day on weekdays. So if they wanted to experiment with MIA to JFK on 321T's they could, but this probably isn't the proper time to judge if the response would be worthwhile or not. They clearly have enough 321Ts they *COULD* experiment like you suggested, when they have such a drastically reduced transcon schedule right now
 
Brickell305
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:35 pm

HardeesBiscuit wrote:
N62NA wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:

If the demand for premium travel wanes I can see AA reconfiguring their 321Ts possibly reducing the J cabin. Or maybe just handing over the premium market to Mint. While Hollywood A listers will still get premium travel I see lots of travel budgets being slashed for the rank and file.




Or... reduce a few of the frequencies out of JFK and move those 321Ts over to MIA. :-)


in August JFK to LAX is down to 5 a day on weekdays. So if they wanted to experiment with MIA to JFK on 321T's they could, but this probably isn't the proper time to judge if the response would be worthwhile or not. They clearly have enough 321Ts they *COULD* experiment like you suggested, when they have such a drastically reduced transcon schedule right now

They'd run that experiment right around the time they're ready to shut down the airline for good. If the 321Ts are seeing MIA, it'll be from LAX (as has occurred briefly before), not JFK (which is mass market to MIA in normal times). The main business demand to/from MIA to/from NYC is to LGA, not JFK. As it is for most within perimeter domestic destinations.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:57 pm

IF JFK/LAX/SFO would lose the 321T it would be gone for good. No other route could support that a/c as configured.
 
chonetsao
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:11 pm

UPlog wrote:
onwFan wrote:
I am pretty sure one of the first (if not the first) transcontinental flight that gets resumed at SAN will be to LHR by BA. There is no question of whether it will be resumed, only when. JL also had carved out a niche for itself at SAN; and with LAX becoming less of a connecting hub for AA, I am sure NRT-SAN on JL is just a matter of time, especially given the massive OW FF base at SAN from AS.


Sure one day maybe, but SAN is hardly a market for either BA or JL in the grand scheme of things.

Its pretty apparent what the priorities for each airline are now during COVID. According to airlineroute.net both BA and JL have added more service back to the US in the last month, but obviously not SAN.

To maybe put this in a clearer perspective, AA-BA had 5 daily flights between LAX and LHR including 2 A380s. Today they are down to single 789. The market has to return massively to place like LA, before SAN becomes a priority to add back.


Is SAN an approved airport for international arrivals during Covid-19? I remember back in May the approved 15 airports are:
Boston-Logan International Airport (BOS), Massachusetts
Chicago O’Hare International Airport (ORD), Illinois
Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (DFW), Texas
Detroit Metropolitan Airport (DTW), Michigan
Daniel K. Inouye International Airport (HNL), Hawaii
Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport (FLL), Florida
George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH), Texas
Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL), Georgia
John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK), New York
Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), California
Miami International Airport (MIA), Florida
Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR), New Jersey
San Francisco International Airport (SFO), California
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport (SEA), Washington
Washington-Dulles International Airport (IAD), Virginia

Above list is from DHS website. I have not heard any update yet. So I assume above 15 airports that was approved by DHS in May have not been expanded to SAN yet. So if that is case, I don't think your current assessment can be valid. As there is possibility that BA and JL both want to return to SAN and see it as a priority but DHS does not approve SAN as an international getaway airport for Covid-19. Of course if you quote something directly from BA and JL saying they are no longer interested with SAN then I would think you have some merits in your conclusion. Or if you can find out the new DHS list that have SAN included yet BA or JL had not shown and interests in returning, I would admit you are genius too.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 82
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:09 pm

chonetsao wrote:
UPlog wrote:
onwFan wrote:
I am pretty sure one of the first (if not the first) transcontinental flight that gets resumed at SAN will be to LHR by BA. There is no question of whether it will be resumed, only when. JL also had carved out a niche for itself at SAN; and with LAX becoming less of a connecting hub for AA, I am sure NRT-SAN on JL is just a matter of time, especially given the massive OW FF base at SAN from AS.


Sure one day maybe, but SAN is hardly a market for either BA or JL in the grand scheme of things.

Its pretty apparent what the priorities for each airline are now during COVID. According to airlineroute.net both BA and JL have added more service back to the US in the last month, but obviously not SAN.

To maybe put this in a clearer perspective, AA-BA had 5 daily flights between LAX and LHR including 2 A380s. Today they are down to single 789. The market has to return massively to place like LA, before SAN becomes a priority to add back.


Is SAN an approved airport for international arrivals during Covid-19? I remember back in May the approved 15 airports are:
Boston-Logan International Airport (BOS), Massachusetts
Chicago O’Hare International Airport (ORD), Illinois
Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (DFW), Texas
Detroit Metropolitan Airport (DTW), Michigan
Daniel K. Inouye International Airport (HNL), Hawaii
Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport (FLL), Florida
George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH), Texas
Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL), Georgia
John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK), New York
Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), California
Miami International Airport (MIA), Florida
Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR), New Jersey
San Francisco International Airport (SFO), California
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport (SEA), Washington
Washington-Dulles International Airport (IAD), Virginia

Above list is from DHS website. I have not heard any update yet. So I assume above 15 airports that was approved by DHS in May have not been expanded to SAN yet. So if that is case, I don't think your current assessment can be valid. As there is possibility that BA and JL both want to return to SAN and see it as a priority but DHS does not approve SAN as an international getaway airport for Covid-19. Of course if you quote something directly from BA and JL saying they are no longer interested with SAN then I would think you have some merits in your conclusion. Or if you can find out the new DHS list that have SAN included yet BA or JL had not shown and interests in returning, I would admit you are genius too.


Japan is not travel restricted by the U.S., but the U.K. is. So JAL could resume ops to SAN but British Airways cannot.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:30 pm

chonetsao wrote:
UPlog wrote:
onwFan wrote:
I am pretty sure one of the first (if not the first) transcontinental flight that gets resumed at SAN will be to LHR by BA. There is no question of whether it will be resumed, only when. JL also had carved out a niche for itself at SAN; and with LAX becoming less of a connecting hub for AA, I am sure NRT-SAN on JL is just a matter of time, especially given the massive OW FF base at SAN from AS.


Sure one day maybe, but SAN is hardly a market for either BA or JL in the grand scheme of things.

Its pretty apparent what the priorities for each airline are now during COVID. According to airlineroute.net both BA and JL have added more service back to the US in the last month, but obviously not SAN.

To maybe put this in a clearer perspective, AA-BA had 5 daily flights between LAX and LHR including 2 A380s. Today they are down to single 789. The market has to return massively to place like LA, before SAN becomes a priority to add back.


Is SAN an approved airport for international arrivals during Covid-19? I remember back in May the approved 15 airports are:
Boston-Logan International Airport (BOS), Massachusetts
Chicago O’Hare International Airport (ORD), Illinois
Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (DFW), Texas
Detroit Metropolitan Airport (DTW), Michigan
Daniel K. Inouye International Airport (HNL), Hawaii
Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport (FLL), Florida
George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH), Texas
Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL), Georgia
John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK), New York
Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), California
Miami International Airport (MIA), Florida
Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR), New Jersey
San Francisco International Airport (SFO), California
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport (SEA), Washington
Washington-Dulles International Airport (IAD), Virginia

Above list is from DHS website. I have not heard any update yet. So I assume above 15 airports that was approved by DHS in May have not been expanded to SAN yet. So if that is case, I don't think your current assessment can be valid. As there is possibility that BA and JL both want to return to SAN and see it as a priority but DHS does not approve SAN as an international getaway airport for Covid-19. Of course if you quote something directly from BA and JL saying they are no longer interested with SAN then I would think you have some merits in your conclusion. Or if you can find out the new DHS list that have SAN included yet BA or JL had not shown and interests in returning, I would admit you are genius too.


The airport list is for arrivals from the EU, international routes from other regions can still arrive at any airport with an FIS, like SAN.
 
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N62NA
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:05 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
HardeesBiscuit wrote:
N62NA wrote:



Or... reduce a few of the frequencies out of JFK and move those 321Ts over to MIA. :-)


in August JFK to LAX is down to 5 a day on weekdays. So if they wanted to experiment with MIA to JFK on 321T's they could, but this probably isn't the proper time to judge if the response would be worthwhile or not. They clearly have enough 321Ts they *COULD* experiment like you suggested, when they have such a drastically reduced transcon schedule right now

They'd run that experiment right around the time they're ready to shut down the airline for good. If the 321Ts are seeing MIA, it'll be from LAX (as has occurred briefly before), not JFK (which is mass market to MIA in normal times). The main business demand to/from MIA to/from NYC is to LGA, not JFK. As it is for most within perimeter domestic destinations.


I should have been clearer. Move some of them off JFK-LAX and put them on MIA-LAX. Not MIA-JFK.
 
FSDan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:22 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AS & AA partnership coming into play:

AA cut Los Angeles to Eugene, Fresno, Louisville, Medford, Redmond/Bend, and San Diego, guess what AS announced a couple weeks ago.....LAX to Eugene, Fresno, Medford, and Redmond/Bend.....


Wouldn't that count as coordination? Or is just coincidental in this case?


I don't think it can possibly be considered coincidental, although it legally can't be full-on coordination either. Partnership or not, I wouldn't have batted an eye if AS decided to add LAX-EUG/MFR/RDM and AA subsequently dropped them. LAX-FAT, on the other hand... that one feels more "coordinated", as it would seem a more surprising market for AS decide to enter without the partnership in place. I suppose AS could have added this, hoping to send a signal to AA, which AA has tacitly agreed to with this subsequent drop.

Out of interest, would it be legal or illegal for AA to send AS a list of their low-performing LAX routes, with no further coordination about what might make sense for AS to add themselves? Is that considered collusion, or is it simply AA selectively sharing proprietary information with an outside entity of their choice?
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chonetsao
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:26 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Japan is not travel restricted by the U.S., but the U.K. is. So JAL could resume ops to SAN but British Airways cannot.


usflyer msp wrote:
The airport list is for arrivals from the EU, international routes from other regions can still arrive at any airport with an FIS, like SAN.


Good catch. Thank you for pointing out my mistakes. I forgot Japan is not on the restrict list.

PS usflyer msp, this list applies to other countries including EU and Brazil. Possible few other countries too.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:45 pm

FSDan wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AS & AA partnership coming into play:

AA cut Los Angeles to Eugene, Fresno, Louisville, Medford, Redmond/Bend, and San Diego, guess what AS announced a couple weeks ago.....LAX to Eugene, Fresno, Medford, and Redmond/Bend.....


Wouldn't that count as coordination? Or is just coincidental in this case?


Out of interest, would it be legal or illegal for AA to send AS a list of their low-performing LAX routes, with no further coordination about what might make sense for AS to add themselves? Is that considered collusion, or is it simply AA selectively sharing proprietary information with an outside entity of their choice?


AS & other airlines already have enough data to figure that out on their own. They know the cost side pretty darn well since they know labor, airport, fuel, mx, e.t.c costs, & they obviously have data on revenue & corporate share on a route using PRISM data.
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alasizon
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:54 am

FSDan wrote:
Out of interest, would it be legal or illegal for AA to send AS a list of their low-performing LAX routes, with no further coordination about what might make sense for AS to add themselves? Is that considered collusion, or is it simply AA selectively sharing proprietary information with an outside entity of their choice?


The line gets pretty blurry; the info can be shared but AS can't use it to establish new routes or frequencies as that would likely rise to the level of illegal cooperation so then it backs AS into a corner where it could possibly block them out of certain routes that they "need" to be in and/or increase.

Midwestindy wrote:
AS & other airlines already have enough data to figure that out on their own. They know the cost side pretty darn well since they know labor, airport, fuel, mx, e.t.c costs, & they obviously have data on revenue & corporate share on a route using PRISM data.

There is still some proprietary revenue and yield data on connection flows that they wouldn't be able to get on their own but that is about it.
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ASFlyer
Posts: 1726
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:38 am

FSDan wrote:
LAX-FAT, on the other hand... that one feels more "coordinated", as it would seem a more surprising market for AS decide to enter without the partnership in place. I suppose AS could have added this, hoping to send a signal to AA, which AA has tacitly agreed to with this subsequent drop.


I don't think it's that odd really. It's not a route that AS has run in the past, but they already operate LAX - SFO/SJC/STS and did briefly operate LAX-MRY. Even further back they operated LAX-ACV and LAX-RDD. Intra-California ops from LAX aren't especially odd for AS. FAT is a long standing, and successful market for AS. Pre-Covid they operated 3 a day to SEA, 2 a day to PDX and 3 a day to SAN. LAX seems like a natural add - especially if you're considering additional traffic that could be supported both by Oneworld and the new AA/AS WCIA.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 547
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:08 pm

Any idea if JFK - ATH is going to be on a 777-200?
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:36 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:54 pm

Below is an article that provides one perspective of how the slot swap between AA and B6 could play out. I still find it interesting that AA wants to leverage B6's domestic routes to help feed AA's international network at JFK. PHL is just down the road. Instead of reducing gateways and simplifying operations, they are now adding complexity by utilizing a partner and having two transatlantic gateways within 90 miles of each other?

The revenue associated with any passengers fed from B6's domestic network on to an AA international flight would need to be shared with B6 for the domestic leg of the flight. I just don't see how this works in AA's favor long term unless they believe they are able to secure enough local O&D from B6's FF base in NYC.

https://blog.wandr.me/2020/07/slot-swap ... ardingArea
 
tphuang
Posts: 5331
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:46 pm

MrPeanut wrote:
Below is an article that provides one perspective of how the slot swap between AA and B6 could play out. I still find it interesting that AA wants to leverage B6's domestic routes to help feed AA's international network at JFK. PHL is just down the road. Instead of reducing gateways and simplifying operations, they are now adding complexity by utilizing a partner and having two transatlantic gateways within 90 miles of each other?

The revenue associated with any passengers fed from B6's domestic network on to an AA international flight would need to be shared with B6 for the domestic leg of the flight. I just don't see how this works in AA's favor long term unless they believe they are able to secure enough local O&D from B6's FF base in NYC.

https://blog.wandr.me/2020/07/slot-swap ... ardingArea


These articles keep repeating it's about JFK connections, when that's a minor point here. It's all about making AA's network stronger in NYC and Boston, since they can offered combined network now. AA can retain all its ff in new york without offering all these leisure and transcon stuff JetBlue flies and it can retain all its ff in Boston without having to operate non-hub routes. It's about fighting for high yielding corporate clients against DL and UA in NYC without having to burn money on those costly 50 seaters. Both AA and JetBlue repeated that in their earnings call, but these writers keep repeating the same line of JFK connection over and over again.
 
kavok
Posts: 844
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:00 pm

tphuang wrote:
MrPeanut wrote:
Below is an article that provides one perspective of how the slot swap between AA and B6 could play out. I still find it interesting that AA wants to leverage B6's domestic routes to help feed AA's international network at JFK. PHL is just down the road. Instead of reducing gateways and simplifying operations, they are now adding complexity by utilizing a partner and having two transatlantic gateways within 90 miles of each other?

The revenue associated with any passengers fed from B6's domestic network on to an AA international flight would need to be shared with B6 for the domestic leg of the flight. I just don't see how this works in AA's favor long term unless they believe they are able to secure enough local O&D from B6's FF base in NYC.

https://blog.wandr.me/2020/07/slot-swap ... ardingArea


These articles keep repeating it's about JFK connections, when that's a minor point here. It's all about making AA's network stronger in NYC and Boston, since they can offered combined network now. AA can retain all its ff in new york without offering all these leisure and transcon stuff JetBlue flies and it can retain all its ff in Boston without having to operate non-hub routes. It's about fighting for high yielding corporate clients against DL and UA in NYC without having to burn money on those costly 50 seaters. Both AA and JetBlue repeated that in their earnings call, but these writers keep repeating the same line of JFK connection over and over again.


Having the B6 partnership is nice and all, but if you are based in NYC or BOS, why pick AA over B6 as your airline FF plan?

To use another example, USA flyers who tend to fly DL could choose KLM Flying Blue as their FF plan, since every DL flight is a codeshare for KL. Same with UA flyers who could choose LH’s FF plan. But there is a reason most people don’t, and that is because you get the most benefits from the FF plan of the metal you are flying on.

So unless you are a NYC resident who only flies mostly to say Athens, London, or DFW, and hardly anywhere else... why would AA make sense as the FF plan to choose? If this partnership means AA flyers in NYC/BOS are mostly flying B6, then they should sign up for Mosaic instead.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:01 pm

MrPeanut wrote:
Below is an article that provides one perspective of how the slot swap between AA and B6 could play out. I still find it interesting that AA wants to leverage B6's domestic routes to help feed AA's international network at JFK. PHL is just down the road. Instead of reducing gateways and simplifying operations, they are now adding complexity by utilizing a partner and having two transatlantic gateways within 90 miles of each other?

The revenue associated with any passengers fed from B6's domestic network on to an AA international flight would need to be shared with B6 for the domestic leg of the flight. I just don't see how this works in AA's favor long term unless they believe they are able to secure enough local O&D from B6's FF base in NYC.

https://blog.wandr.me/2020/07/slot-swap ... ardingArea


I don’t see any of the big 3 carriers being able to get away with not providing international service from NYC. It’s simply too important of a market not to serve. AA recognizes this but also recognizes that they are too small to effectively compete with other carriers by themselves and have no real options for organic growth. Therefore they needed a partner. The best option for them is clearly B6. I don’t think having to rely on an independent partner is ideal for AA by any means but neither was consistently being weaker than DL and UA in NYC.
 
ryby92
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:17 pm

kavok wrote:
tphuang wrote:
MrPeanut wrote:
Below is an article that provides one perspective of how the slot swap between AA and B6 could play out. I still find it interesting that AA wants to leverage B6's domestic routes to help feed AA's international network at JFK. PHL is just down the road. Instead of reducing gateways and simplifying operations, they are now adding complexity by utilizing a partner and having two transatlantic gateways within 90 miles of each other?

The revenue associated with any passengers fed from B6's domestic network on to an AA international flight would need to be shared with B6 for the domestic leg of the flight. I just don't see how this works in AA's favor long term unless they believe they are able to secure enough local O&D from B6's FF base in NYC.

https://blog.wandr.me/2020/07/slot-swap ... ardingArea


These articles keep repeating it's about JFK connections, when that's a minor point here. It's all about making AA's network stronger in NYC and Boston, since they can offered combined network now. AA can retain all its ff in new york without offering all these leisure and transcon stuff JetBlue flies and it can retain all its ff in Boston without having to operate non-hub routes. It's about fighting for high yielding corporate clients against DL and UA in NYC without having to burn money on those costly 50 seaters. Both AA and JetBlue repeated that in their earnings call, but these writers keep repeating the same line of JFK connection over and over again.


Having the B6 partnership is nice and all, but if you are based in NYC or BOS, why pick AA over B6 as your airline FF plan?

To use another example, USA flyers who tend to fly DL could choose KLM Flying Blue as their FF plan, since every DL flight is a codeshare for KL. Same with UA flyers who could choose LH’s FF plan. But there is a reason most people don’t, and that is because you get the most benefits from the FF plan of the metal you are flying on.

So unless you are a NYC resident who only flies mostly to say Athens, London, or DFW, and hardly anywhere else... why would AA make sense as the FF plan to choose? If this partnership means AA flyers in NYC/BOS are mostly flying B6, then they should sign up for Mosaic instead.


I think many here miss the point. if I am a B6 ff I can now fly AA international to GIG GRU EZE MXP FCO LHR CDG MAD BCN ATH TLV, a bit more than the two destinations you suggested. if I am an AA ff my options are going to gradually increase. And this is not about using JFK as a connecting hub. it's all about gaining the NY traveler so if I sign up to either B6 or AA I gain same way as a DL or UA ff when I combine the two networks.
 
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SANFan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:31 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Is SAN an approved airport for international arrivals during Covid-19? I remember back in May the approved 15 airports are:
Boston-Logan International Airport (BOS), Massachusetts
Chicago O’Hare International Airport (ORD), Illinois
Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport (DFW), Texas
Detroit Metropolitan Airport (DTW), Michigan
Daniel K. Inouye International Airport (HNL), Hawaii
Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport (FLL), Florida
George Bush Intercontinental Airport (IAH), Texas
Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL), Georgia
John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK), New York
Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX), California
Miami International Airport (MIA), Florida
Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR), New Jersey
San Francisco International Airport (SFO), California
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport (SEA), Washington
Washington-Dulles International Airport (IAD), Virginia

Above list is from DHS website. I have not heard any update yet. So I assume above 15 airports that was approved by DHS in May have not been expanded to SAN yet. So if that is case, I don't think your current assessment can be valid. As there is possibility that BA and JL both want to return to SAN and see it as a priority but DHS does not approve SAN as an international getaway airport for Covid-19. Of course if you quote something directly from BA and JL saying they are no longer interested with SAN then I would think you have some merits in your conclusion. Or if you can find out the new DHS list that have SAN included yet BA or JL had not shown and interests in returning, I would admit you are genius too.

It must have been updated. PHX and DEN are scheduled to see BA service to/from LHR returning in August (according to the OAG thread.) I searched the site and gave up but if SAN has been added to the list of approved airports, obviously BA doesn't see the traffic yet.

bb
 
tphuang
Posts: 5331
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:06 pm

kavok wrote:
tphuang wrote:
MrPeanut wrote:
Below is an article that provides one perspective of how the slot swap between AA and B6 could play out. I still find it interesting that AA wants to leverage B6's domestic routes to help feed AA's international network at JFK. PHL is just down the road. Instead of reducing gateways and simplifying operations, they are now adding complexity by utilizing a partner and having two transatlantic gateways within 90 miles of each other?

The revenue associated with any passengers fed from B6's domestic network on to an AA international flight would need to be shared with B6 for the domestic leg of the flight. I just don't see how this works in AA's favor long term unless they believe they are able to secure enough local O&D from B6's FF base in NYC.

https://blog.wandr.me/2020/07/slot-swap ... ardingArea


These articles keep repeating it's about JFK connections, when that's a minor point here. It's all about making AA's network stronger in NYC and Boston, since they can offered combined network now. AA can retain all its ff in new york without offering all these leisure and transcon stuff JetBlue flies and it can retain all its ff in Boston without having to operate non-hub routes. It's about fighting for high yielding corporate clients against DL and UA in NYC without having to burn money on those costly 50 seaters. Both AA and JetBlue repeated that in their earnings call, but these writers keep repeating the same line of JFK connection over and over again.


Having the B6 partnership is nice and all, but if you are based in NYC or BOS, why pick AA over B6 as your airline FF plan?

To use another example, USA flyers who tend to fly DL could choose KLM Flying Blue as their FF plan, since every DL flight is a codeshare for KL. Same with UA flyers who could choose LH’s FF plan. But there is a reason most people don’t, and that is because you get the most benefits from the FF plan of the metal you are flying on.

So unless you are a NYC resident who only flies mostly to say Athens, London, or DFW, and hardly anywhere else... why would AA make sense as the FF plan to choose? If this partnership means AA flyers in NYC/BOS are mostly flying B6, then they should sign up for Mosaic instead.


There is a lot of AA ff in NYC/BOS that have been thinking of switching over to DL as the later have been building up in the region. This deal will give them a lot less reason to do so. Especially in Boston, it might persuade some UA/DL ff to move to AA. For a lot of people, B6 is simply not a real option, because it has so many holes in middle of the country and also don't have a long haul network. After all, someone that does a lot of JFK-LHR/LAX flying might want to be able to redeem miles to Florida and Caribbeans, but still wants the benefit of a carrier with JV partner in BA. After all, B6 ff would only be able to earn miles on AA flight, not BA flights. And there are a lot of corporate contracts nationwide between AA and DL/UA. B6 is simply not in contention for these top dollar contract.

I do think there is some risk here for AA, because they are providing access to middle of the country and reprotection interlining that JetBlue network had lacked before this. But obviously, AA management sees the downside to be less than the benefit they will receive on those big corporate contracts.

I think you will see more ff in Northeast moving to AA/B6 programs from UA/DL. I'm just not sure which carrier will gain more ff.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:24 pm

During it's more than 20 years in existence B6 has never taken a keen interest in the Midwest. So I assume AA isn't worried B6 would cannibalize what AA has in the Midwest. I'm also assuming that AA would like to funnel more potential traffic into JFK from nearby NE cities which B6 gives them without money losing routes to feed International.
 
jplatts
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:48 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
During it's more than 20 years in existence B6 has never taken a keen interest in the Midwest. So I assume AA isn't worried B6 would cannibalize what AA has in the Midwest. I'm also assuming that AA would like to funnel more potential traffic into JFK from nearby NE cities which B6 gives them without money losing routes to feed International.


B6 already serves ORD, CLE, DTW, and MSP in the Midwest, and B6 also previously served CMH in the Midwest.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 695
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:52 pm

jplatts wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
During it's more than 20 years in existence B6 has never taken a keen interest in the Midwest. So I assume AA isn't worried B6 would cannibalize what AA has in the Midwest. I'm also assuming that AA would like to funnel more potential traffic into JFK from nearby NE cities which B6 gives them without money losing routes to feed International.


B6 already serves ORD, CLE, DTW, and MSP in the Midwest, and B6 also previously served CMH in the Midwest.


There's far more cities in the Midwest than those. MCI, STL, OMA. FAR, DSM, FSD just to name a few
 
Tack
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:10 am

tphuang wrote:
kavok wrote:
tphuang wrote:

These articles keep repeating it's about JFK connections, when that's a minor point here. It's all about making AA's network stronger in NYC and Boston, since they can offered combined network now. AA can retain all its ff in new york without offering all these leisure and transcon stuff JetBlue flies and it can retain all its ff in Boston without having to operate non-hub routes. It's about fighting for high yielding corporate clients against DL and UA in NYC without having to burn money on those costly 50 seaters. Both AA and JetBlue repeated that in their earnings call, but these writers keep repeating the same line of JFK connection over and over again.


Having the B6 partnership is nice and all, but if you are based in NYC or BOS, why pick AA over B6 as your airline FF plan?

To use another example, USA flyers who tend to fly DL could choose KLM Flying Blue as their FF plan, since every DL flight is a codeshare for KL. Same with UA flyers who could choose LH’s FF plan. But there is a reason most people don’t, and that is because you get the most benefits from the FF plan of the metal you are flying on.

So unless you are a NYC resident who only flies mostly to say Athens, London, or DFW, and hardly anywhere else... why would AA make sense as the FF plan to choose? If this partnership means AA flyers in NYC/BOS are mostly flying B6, then they should sign up for Mosaic instead.


There is a lot of AA ff in NYC/BOS that have been thinking of switching over to DL as the later have been building up in the region. This deal will give them a lot less reason to do so. Especially in Boston, it might persuade some UA/DL ff to move to AA. For a lot of people, B6 is simply not a real option, because it has so many holes in middle of the country and also don't have a long haul network. After all, someone that does a lot of JFK-LHR/LAX flying might want to be able to redeem miles to Florida and Caribbeans, but still wants the benefit of a carrier with JV partner in BA. After all, B6 ff would only be able to earn miles on AA flight, not BA flights. And there are a lot of corporate contracts nationwide between AA and DL/UA. B6 is simply not in contention for these top dollar contract.

I do think there is some risk here for AA, because they are providing access to middle of the country and reprotection interlining that JetBlue network had lacked before this. But obviously, AA management sees the downside to be less than the benefit they will receive on those big corporate contracts.

I think you will see more ff in Northeast moving to AA/B6 programs from UA/DL. I'm just not sure which carrier will gain more ff.


Agreed. For many of those AA Elites who might’ve been considering a status match to DL, I’d think being able to stay with the OW Alliance with this code share would squash those plans. YMMV of course, but OW, for me, is the most valuable Aliiance out there. ST is a major step down. And I’ll bet many of DL Elites might see an AA/B6 status match in their future. Earn and burn on B6, is a nice bonus.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5360
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:00 pm

From AA crew news:

Widebody bases in BOS/SEA are coming in the future
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1288 ... 21473?s=20

MIA/LAX/NYC will see large cuts for September for Hurricane season and low business travel demand
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1288 ... 01921?s=20
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
dca1
Posts: 24
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:30 am

Midwestindy wrote:
From AA crew news:

Widebody bases in BOS/SEA are coming in the future
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1288 ... 21473?s=20

MIA/LAX/NYC will see large cuts for September for Hurricane season and low business travel demand
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1288 ... 01921?s=20



He didn't answer the question about plans to merge with another airline. Personally, I feel AA/B6 are headed to the alter.
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:36 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:53 am

dca1 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
From AA crew news:

Widebody bases in BOS/SEA are coming in the future
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1288 ... 21473?s=20

MIA/LAX/NYC will see large cuts for September for Hurricane season and low business travel demand
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1288 ... 01921?s=20



He didn't answer the question about plans to merge with another airline. Personally, I feel AA/B6 are headed to the alter.


That won’t happen. Financially it cannot happen.

But let’s assume AA could afford to buy B6. A lot of B6’s existing routes would be unprofitable under AA’s cost structure. It would be an AirCal / Reno Air scenario all over again. AA’s best option is filing for BK, renegotiate competitive labor rates, and restructure their debt. The problem is that labor relations are so poor within AA that I don’t think they will be able to get out maximum savings from their labor force.

And B6 would not want to buy AA. AA is a mess financially with a toxic culture right now. Quite honestly B6 is better off picking at the scraps for free (partnership) or letting AA fail and selectively picking up key assets at pennies on the dollar.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:23 pm

I'd agree that AA would first need to go into Chapter 11. Remember in Chapter 11 the Company can petition the Court to set aside any labor contract and if push comes to shove ask the Court to install a new contract. At this point given the nature of what's going on Unions will have little power. The best they'd be able to do is get negotiate something less draconian than what the Court would impose. In fact, that's where I see this going. But that wouldn't necessary stop workers from taking their frustrations out on the paying public.

I would think if B6 wants to find a merger partner they'd do better than to get involved in this hot mess.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5331
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:07 am

Again, here is the most important part.

The code share is a “relatively small” revenue driver, he said, while the frequent flyer agreement is key. In the New York corporate market, “So many [American] customers go to London or L.A. [but] have no place to burn their miles,” he said. “They want to go to Florida and the Caribbean,” markets served by JetBlue.


The entire AA to use JetBlue slots does not make any sense when AA is not in any shortage of JFK slots.

This entire deal is about improve AA's network (especially leisure) in NYC. See JetBlue already added LGA-TPA/RSW.

It's well know in ff community that AA is really lacking when it comes to leisure destination out of NYC.
 
Ishrion
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Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American adds more Asia to SEA, and other long-haul changes

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:57 pm

 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4797
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: American adds more Asia to SEA, and other long-haul changes

Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:07 pm

SEA makes much more sense now than LAX for AA to Shanghai. All of that Alaska air feed will help the flight. Good it got approved.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8270
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: American adds more Asia to SEA, and other long-haul changes

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:04 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
SEA makes much more sense now than LAX for AA to Shanghai.


I've got to ask: What big markets with demand to PVG does AS serve from SEA that AA didn't serve from LAX?
 
DMPHL
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: American adds more Asia to SEA, and other long-haul changes

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:15 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
SEA makes much more sense now than LAX for AA to Shanghai.


I've got to ask: What big markets with demand to PVG does AS serve from SEA that AA didn't serve from LAX?


Don't know enough about the markets themselves, but some combination of distance (SEA-PVG is ~700nm shorter than LAX-PVG), less competition (LAX-China capacity is over-saturated, competition is fierce, and yields are crappy), potential ability to capture local demand in SEA where AS has a much deeper FF base than Delta, and any additional feed that AS can provide that AA does not have to run itself and lose money on, is probably resulting in them betting it will work better from SEA. Who knows if they're right.
 
x1234
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Re: American adds more Asia to SEA, and other long-haul changes

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:26 pm

Shanghai is the commercial centre of China outside of Hong Kong and there is consistent J demand as DL has found out. On DL's flights to PVG there's 10-15% connections beyond PVG with China Eastern in SkyTeam and the rest O&D. Multi-nationals in Seattle that fly to PVG now have a 2nd choice with AA/AS and they include Microsoft, Starbucks, Nintendo, T-Mobile, etc.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2412
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: American adds more Asia to SEA, and other long-haul changes

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:39 pm

x1234 wrote:
Multi-nationals in Seattle that fly to PVG now have a 2nd choice with AA/AS and they include Microsoft, Starbucks, Nintendo, T-Mobile, etc.


DL was the 2nd choice. Hainan was flying PVG-SEA, with an AS codeshare, prior to DL. Hainan also has PEK-SEA.
 
jayunited
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Re: American adds more Asia to SEA, and other long-haul changes

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:47 pm

x1234 wrote:
Shanghai is the commercial centre of China outside of Hong Kong and there is consistent J demand as DL has found out. On DL's flights to PVG there's 10-15% connections beyond PVG with China Eastern in SkyTeam and the rest O&D. Multi-nationals in Seattle that fly to PVG now have a 2nd choice with AA/AS and they include Microsoft, Starbucks, Nintendo, T-Mobile, etc.



You mean passengers now have a 3rd choice Hainan Airlines also flies PVG-SEA-PVG. Last I checked they haven't announced they are dropping the route permanently although early on this thread many assumed they would drop the route because of AA's arrival. If they remain on the route it will make things even more interesting for AA. Only time will tell if AA will find success to China at SEA because so far it has eluded them from every hub they've tried except DFW. I don't see how partnering with AS changes the dynamics because AS's passengers who have needed to fly to PVG in the past have done so on other airlines and we don't know how many of those passengers will choose to to make the switch over to AA.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: American adds more Asia to SEA, and other long-haul changes

Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:08 pm

No one knows if HU will return to SEA-PVG....I'm thinking likely not with this news. Neither one of them have very deep pockets right now and I'm guessing HU won't be up for a fight. I'll miss them though...that 50k o/w in business class to China was a sweet deal with the AS Mileage Plan!
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2412
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: American adds more Asia to SEA, and other long-haul changes

Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:12 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
No one knows if HU will return to SEA-PVG....I'm thinking likely not with this news. Neither one of them have very deep pockets right now and I'm guessing HU won't be up for a fight. I'll miss them though...that 50k o/w in business class to China was a sweet deal with the AS Mileage Plan!


I suspect HU will likely not return, but with how Chinese authorities work, another carrier will certainly pick up those rights.
 
onwFan
Posts: 469
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Re: American adds more Asia to SEA, and other long-haul changes

Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:21 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
jayunited wrote:
x1234 wrote:
Shanghai is the commercial centre of China outside of Hong Kong and there is consistent J demand as DL has found out. On DL's flights to PVG there's 10-15% connections beyond PVG with China Eastern in SkyTeam and the rest O&D. Multi-nationals in Seattle that fly to PVG now have a 2nd choice with AA/AS and they include Microsoft, Starbucks, Nintendo, T-Mobile, etc.



You mean passengers now have a 3rd choice Hainan Airlines also flies PVG-SEA-PVG. Last I checked they haven't announced they are dropping the route permanently although early on this thread many assumed they would drop the route because of AA's arrival. If they remain on the route it will make things even more interesting for AA. Only time will tell if AA will find success to China at SEA because so far it has eluded them from every hub they've tried except DFW. I don't see how partnering with AS changes the dynamics because AS's passengers who have needed to fly to PVG in the past have done so on other airlines and we don't know how many of those passengers will choose to to make the switch over to AA.

AS will be codesharing on these AA flights to Asia, just like they do to Austalia/NZ. AS FFs who were flying DL to PVG (being the only US carrier option) & are aware of the fact that they will be able to earn full AS status miles and burn them on AA metal will have every incentive to switch over to AA.. When AS joins OW, MileagePlan is definitely bound to change, with far more incentives for FFs to choose OW metal over other partners.

There is literally no destination domestically that DL serves from SEA that AS does not (excluding 1-2 seasonal markets like JAC), and AS in fact offers ~2x the number of destinations. In fact there is more incentive for people to switch over from DL to AS/AA than the other way round.
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 169
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Re: American adds more Asia to SEA, and other long-haul changes

Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:29 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
SEA makes much more sense now than LAX for AA to Shanghai.


I've got to ask: What big markets with demand to PVG does AS serve from SEA that AA didn't serve from LAX?


None, but markets such as SFO/PDX/SEA don’t have to backtrack and should in theory make those more profitable assuming AA had passengers in those markets backtracking to LAX on their way to PVG.

But it will be a shorter route in general so maybe that combined with their partnership with China Southern creates a recipe for success instead of the disaster at LAX.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:13 am

One year ago, AA announced DFW-TLV, PHL-CMN, ORD-BUD/KRK/PRG, shifted DFW-KEF to PHL, and increased PHL-DBV/TXL. Of these, DFW-TLV and PHL-KEF have survived.

Around August, AA would typically announce an international expansion. I somewhat doubt we’ll see one similar to previous years, but the JFK-ATH/TLV flights announced three weeks ago suffice.
 
User avatar
American 767
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:43 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
IF JFK/LAX/SFO would lose the 321T it would be gone for good. No other route could support that a/c as configured.


I don't see JFK-LAX/SFO loosing the A321T anytime soon, even if we are in Covid pandemic, because there is a still lot of business traffic between JFK and LAX/SFO, especially LAX. I don't see what other aircraft would do it, maybe a Three-Class configured A321NEO. I don't see any equipment change in the near future, the 321T is only six years old and it is still very young. It is doing just fine, albeit maybe with a reduction in frequencies.
Ben Soriano
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2159
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:21 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
I'd agree that AA would first need to go into Chapter 11. Remember in Chapter 11 the Company can petition the Court to set aside any labor contract and if push comes to shove ask the Court to install a new contract. At this point given the nature of what's going on Unions will have little power. The best they'd be able to do is get negotiate something less draconian than what the Court would impose. In fact, that's where I see this going. But that wouldn't necessary stop workers from taking their frustrations out on the paying public.

I would think if B6 wants to find a merger partner they'd do better than to get involved in this hot mess.

Doesn’t work that way. The Court doesn’t impose its own contact. It would be the company’s final offer. And both sides are required to negotiate by law under Section 1113C of the bankruptcy code. I lived it, I was on the Negotiating Committee for the IAM Mechanic and Related at US Airways when we had our contract abrogated in the 2004/2005 bankruptcy and the judge made us still vote on the final offer.
 
miaami
Posts: 936
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:27 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:06 pm

More 788 flying from MIA. I know a lot can change between now and December, however I found these new 788 flights from MIA in late December 2020.
BCN,GYE,SAL,PTY,LIM,GIG,MVD,SCL,ORD,LAX,PHL,DFW

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