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jetsetter629
Posts: 494
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:34 pm

What seemingly got slid in with the recent DAB route announcements is the addition of a once-weekly PHL-PSP. Really did not see this one coming even though there have been other adds (pre-COVID) to west coast leisure destinations like EGE and BZN.

On a similar note, this route is to be operated by an A319 - making it perhaps one of AA's only transcon A319 flights and certainly only one out of PHL (all are A321s with a few 738s to SAN). I've always wondered AA did not use the A319 more on the 'thin' transcon routes to places like PDX, SMF or even add SNA or YVR. It could open them up from seasonal to year-round.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:47 pm

CASM. Cost per seat is rather $ compared to a 738 which AA deploys on lots of long domestic routes.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:43 pm

Big news for Philly:

"- U.S. SET TO END ENHANCED SCREENING OF INTERNATIONAL TRAVELERS ARRIVING FROM SOME COUNTRIES AS EARLY AS MONDAY -- U.S. GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT SEEN BY REUTERS"

"TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SET TO END REQUIREMENT THAT FLIGHTS FROM CHINA, UK, MUCH OF EUROPE, IRAN AND BRAZIL ARRIVE AT 15 U.S. AIRPORTS -- DOCUMENT"
https://twitter.com/DeItaOne/status/130 ... 22179?s=20
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Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:45 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Big news for Philly:

"- U.S. SET TO END ENHANCED SCREENING OF INTERNATIONAL TRAVELERS ARRIVING FROM SOME COUNTRIES AS EARLY AS MONDAY -- U.S. GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT SEEN BY REUTERS"

"TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SET TO END REQUIREMENT THAT FLIGHTS FROM CHINA, UK, MUCH OF EUROPE, IRAN AND BRAZIL ARRIVE AT 15 U.S. AIRPORTS -- DOCUMENT"
https://twitter.com/DeItaOne/status/130 ... 22179?s=20


Finally.

Makes me wonder if AA will revert the decision to shift AMS/DUB from PHL to DFW for the winter.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 550
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:20 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Big news for Philly:

"- U.S. SET TO END ENHANCED SCREENING OF INTERNATIONAL TRAVELERS ARRIVING FROM SOME COUNTRIES AS EARLY AS MONDAY -- U.S. GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT SEEN BY REUTERS"

"TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SET TO END REQUIREMENT THAT FLIGHTS FROM CHINA, UK, MUCH OF EUROPE, IRAN AND BRAZIL ARRIVE AT 15 U.S. AIRPORTS -- DOCUMENT"
https://twitter.com/DeItaOne/status/130 ... 22179?s=20


About damn time. Never thought it was going to end this year. Great news overall.
The man who sleeps on the floor doesn’t fall out of bed
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:22 pm

AA 9720 CLT-MUC cargo flight on it's way. I believe it's the first AA transatlantic service out of CLT since it was no longer an approved passengers gateway.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:36 pm

JohanTally wrote:
AA 9720 CLT-MUC cargo flight on it's way. I believe it's the first AA transatlantic service out of CLT since it was no longer an approved passengers gateway.

I believe there has been other flights from CLT cargo only.
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:51 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
AA 9720 CLT-MUC cargo flight on it's way. I believe it's the first AA transatlantic service out of CLT since it was no longer an approved passengers gateway.

I believe there has been other flights from CLT cargo only.

You could be right but I'm here at CLT 5 days a week and this is the first one I'm aware of. We have had the 77E here for stints but I'm not aware of a AA CLT cargo only flight to Europe until today.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:49 pm

It starts the MIA/CLT rotation I believe next week. I'm on the 772 next Friday-CLT/MIA.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:09 am

Miamiairport wrote:
It starts the MIA/CLT rotation I believe next week. I'm on the 772 next Friday-CLT/MIA.


It started today, AA2358: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/aa2358
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:28 pm

American Airlines plans to add more destinations in Asia from DFW as it shifts away from making LAX its gateway to Asia: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... y-to-asia/

Brian Znotis:

"So when international travel does recover the focus will be on adding destinations in Asia through DFW."


What could we see added from DFW?

- A return to the DFW to Osaka route?
- Guangzhou as part of the China Southern partnership?
- Taipei, Taiwan (DFW-TPE was featured on anna.aero's Unserved Route of The Week: https://www.anna.aero/2018/03/07/dallas ... -searches/)
- Nagoya for Toyota's United States headquarters in Plano?
- A nonstop flight to India? New Delhi? (DFW-DEL is just a bit longer than DFW-HKG. Unsure of any restrictions).
- Doha?...

Either way, it's possible it'll be several years before anything is added. American's long-haul growth will likely come from partner hubs JFK/SEA.
 
travaz
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:14 pm

Living in PHX I don't like backtracking to DFW to fly to Asia.
 
x1234
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:17 pm

The only NGO flight to the Lower 48 is DL's DTW-NGO which supports the Auto industry (Toyota world HQ is in Nagoya). With Toyota moving their US HQ from LA to Dallas it makes perfect sense. DFW-TPE would be a tech route (Taipei is the global center of the computer/semiconductor industry). CAN is on thin ice as premium yields in South China are to HKG plus CAN is only a 45 minute bullet train ride away from HKG anyways (With SZX/Shenzhen in the middle, China's Silicon Valley). CAN doesn't add anything of value to AA as CX serves every major city in Southeast and South Asia from HKG.
 
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Rookie87
Posts: 284
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:46 pm

Ishrion wrote:
American Airlines plans to add more destinations in Asia from DFW as it shifts away from making LAX its gateway to Asia: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... y-to-asia/

Brian Znotis:

"So when international travel does recover the focus will be on adding destinations in Asia through DFW."


What could we see added from DFW?

- A return to the DFW to Osaka route?
- Guangzhou as part of the China Southern partnership?
- Taipei, Taiwan (DFW-TPE was featured on anna.aero's Unserved Route of The Week: https://www.anna.aero/2018/03/07/dallas ... -searches/)
- Nagoya for Toyota's United States headquarters in Plano?
- A nonstop flight to India? New Delhi? (DFW-DEL is just a bit longer than DFW-HKG. Unsure of any restrictions).
- Doha?...

Either way, it's possible it'll be several years before anything is added. American's long-haul growth will likely come from partner hubs JFK/SEA.


This feels and looks like they'd just start over by adding these flight to DFW first and then later to LAX as they grow those destinations like they did with HKG. Would be odd to not serve those destinations from LAX while making it a hub in the long term
 
acavpics
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:06 pm

Ishrion wrote:
American Airlines plans to add more destinations in Asia from DFW as it shifts away from making LAX its gateway to Asia: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... y-to-asia/

Brian Znotis:

"So when international travel does recover the focus will be on adding destinations in Asia through DFW."


What could we see added from DFW?

- A return to the DFW to Osaka route?
- Guangzhou as part of the China Southern partnership?
- Taipei, Taiwan (DFW-TPE was featured on anna.aero's Unserved Route of The Week: https://www.anna.aero/2018/03/07/dallas ... -searches/)
- Nagoya for Toyota's United States headquarters in Plano?
- A nonstop flight to India? New Delhi? (DFW-DEL is just a bit longer than DFW-HKG. Unsure of any restrictions).
- Doha?...

Either way, it's possible it'll be several years before anything is added. American's long-haul growth will likely come from partner hubs JFK/SEA.


I don't understand the rationale behind shifting the TPAC gateway from LAX to DFW. Dallas is smack-dab in the middle of the country. Are they expecting fliers from Arizona, Nevada, Colorado etc to back-track all the way to Dallas before flying across the Pacific?
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:19 pm

acavpics wrote:

I don't understand the rationale behind shifting the TPAC gateway from LAX to DFW. Dallas is smack-dab in the middle of the country. Are they expecting fliers from Arizona, Nevada, Colorado etc to back-track all the way to Dallas before flying across the Pacific?


Znotis acknowledges it: "Dallas certainly doesn’t have the best geography for an Asian hub."

I suppose there's a few ways to look at this situation:

1. Yes, backtrack. Needing to fly from Phoenix to Hong Kong? Fly PHX-DFW-HKG. Or -
2. Connect through Tokyo by funneling through LAX-NRT/HND. However, you may need more stopovers if the intended destination isn't served through JAL at Tokyo.
3. Possibility of more Seattle to Asia growth. You could fly something like Denver to Seattle (AS) to Shanghai (AA) and not have to backtrack to DFW.
Last edited by Ishrion on Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 672
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:19 pm

acavpics wrote:
I don't understand the rationale behind shifting the TPAC gateway from LAX to DFW. Dallas is smack-dab in the middle of the country. Are they expecting fliers from Arizona, Nevada, Colorado etc to back-track all the way to Dallas before flying across the Pacific?


Backtracking is not the issue. Total flights time and connection available is more important. Consumers are willing to pay for backtracking connections if the total travel time is within a certain limit of block time. For instance, when an airline is offering a connection with total flying time of 15 hours without back tracking, consumers are willing to purchase a ticket on another airline with a total travelling time up to 18-20 hours if back tracking is involved. Normal consumers will do that to save $15. In another instance, airline A offers connection flight to destination that only 1 daily flight, but airline B offers a back tracking connection with 3-5 daily flights, consumer may choose airline B as the consumer may believe more frequencies means better connection protection.

That being said, AA offers several partners in LAX for Asia Pacific flights that including Qantas, Japan Airlines, Cathay Pacific and China Southern. AA has either JV or code share agreements with them. AA can simply provide code share tickets without physically operate the long haul flights in AA's high cost structure and provide domestic feed to partner's network. Win-win.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:19 pm

acavpics wrote:
I don't understand the rationale behind shifting the TPAC gateway from LAX to DFW. Dallas is smack-dab in the middle of the country. Are they expecting fliers from Arizona, Nevada, Colorado etc to back-track all the way to Dallas before flying across the Pacific?


Backtracking is not the issue. Total flights time and connection available is more important. Consumers are willing to pay for backtracking connections if the total travel time is within a certain limit of block time. For instance, when an airline is offering a connection with total flying time of 15 hours without back tracking, consumers are willing to purchase a ticket on another airline with a total travelling time up to 18-20 hours if back tracking is involved. Normal consumers will do that to save $15. In another instance, airline A offers connection flight to destination that only 1 daily flight, but airline B offers a back tracking connection with 3-5 daily flights, consumer may choose airline B as the consumer may believe more frequencies means better connection protection.

That being said, AA offers several partners in LAX for Asia Pacific flights that including Qantas, Japan Airlines, Cathay Pacific and China Southern. AA has either JV or code share agreements with them. AA can simply provide code share tickets without physically operate the long haul flights in AA's high cost structure and provide domestic feed to partner's network. Win-win.
 
MLIAA
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:39 pm

chonetsao wrote:
acavpics wrote:
I don't understand the rationale behind shifting the TPAC gateway from LAX to DFW. Dallas is smack-dab in the middle of the country. Are they expecting fliers from Arizona, Nevada, Colorado etc to back-track all the way to Dallas before flying across the Pacific?


Backtracking is not the issue. Total flights time and connection available is more important. Consumers are willing to pay for backtracking connections if the total travel time is within a certain limit of block time. For instance, when an airline is offering a connection with total flying time of 15 hours without back tracking, consumers are willing to purchase a ticket on another airline with a total travelling time up to 18-20 hours if back tracking is involved. Normal consumers will do that to save $15. In another instance, airline A offers connection flight to destination that only 1 daily flight, but airline B offers a back tracking connection with 3-5 daily flights, consumer may choose airline B as the consumer may believe more frequencies means better connection protection.

That being said, AA offers several partners in LAX for Asia Pacific flights that including Qantas, Japan Airlines, Cathay Pacific and China Southern. AA has either JV or code share agreements with them. AA can simply provide code share tickets without physically operate the long haul flights in AA's high cost structure and provide domestic feed to partner's network. Win-win.


This makes a lot of sense, it’s a model not unlike AA’s approach to Asia from ORD.

They still have to feed the connections at LAX though.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B712 B722 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B788 B789 MD80 S340 E140 E145 E170 E175 E195 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9
 
jbs2886
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:55 pm

MLIAA wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
acavpics wrote:
I don't understand the rationale behind shifting the TPAC gateway from LAX to DFW. Dallas is smack-dab in the middle of the country. Are they expecting fliers from Arizona, Nevada, Colorado etc to back-track all the way to Dallas before flying across the Pacific?


Backtracking is not the issue. Total flights time and connection available is more important. Consumers are willing to pay for backtracking connections if the total travel time is within a certain limit of block time. For instance, when an airline is offering a connection with total flying time of 15 hours without back tracking, consumers are willing to purchase a ticket on another airline with a total travelling time up to 18-20 hours if back tracking is involved. Normal consumers will do that to save $15. In another instance, airline A offers connection flight to destination that only 1 daily flight, but airline B offers a back tracking connection with 3-5 daily flights, consumer may choose airline B as the consumer may believe more frequencies means better connection protection.

That being said, AA offers several partners in LAX for Asia Pacific flights that including Qantas, Japan Airlines, Cathay Pacific and China Southern. AA has either JV or code share agreements with them. AA can simply provide code share tickets without physically operate the long haul flights in AA's high cost structure and provide domestic feed to partner's network. Win-win.


This makes a lot of sense, it’s a model not unlike AA’s approach to Asia from ORD.

They still have to feed the connections at LAX though.


Perhaps AA to Asia from ORD isn’t the best comparison, it’s virtually non-existent even pre-pandemic. Down to 3x weekly NRT, IIRC, or did that go, too?
 
SurfandSnow
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Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:55 pm

acavpics wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
American Airlines plans to add more destinations in Asia from DFW as it shifts away from making LAX its gateway to Asia: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... y-to-asia/

Brian Znotis:

"So when international travel does recover the focus will be on adding destinations in Asia through DFW."


What could we see added from DFW?

- A return to the DFW to Osaka route?
- Guangzhou as part of the China Southern partnership?
- Taipei, Taiwan (DFW-TPE was featured on anna.aero's Unserved Route of The Week: https://www.anna.aero/2018/03/07/dallas ... -searches/)
- Nagoya for Toyota's United States headquarters in Plano?
- A nonstop flight to India? New Delhi? (DFW-DEL is just a bit longer than DFW-HKG. Unsure of any restrictions).
- Doha?...

Either way, it's possible it'll be several years before anything is added. American's long-haul growth will likely come from partner hubs JFK/SEA.


I don't understand the rationale behind shifting the TPAC gateway from LAX to DFW. Dallas is smack-dab in the middle of the country. Are they expecting fliers from Arizona, Nevada, Colorado etc to back-track all the way to Dallas before flying across the Pacific?


Why couldn't AA FFers in Arizona, Nevada and Colorado fly to LAX (or for that matter, partner AS hubs at SEA or SFO) and connect to oneworld alliance partners CX and JL for the transpacific journey? Many O&D pax on the West Coast prefer flying Asian carriers like those rather than U.S. carriers anyways. It isn't surprising to see AA focus on less competitive hub markets where it has the strongest FFer bases and hub connectivity, while opting to codeshare with high quality partners from places like LAX and JFK that have lost a lot of money...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
MLIAA
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:29 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
MLIAA wrote:
chonetsao wrote:

Backtracking is not the issue. Total flights time and connection available is more important. Consumers are willing to pay for backtracking connections if the total travel time is within a certain limit of block time. For instance, when an airline is offering a connection with total flying time of 15 hours without back tracking, consumers are willing to purchase a ticket on another airline with a total travelling time up to 18-20 hours if back tracking is involved. Normal consumers will do that to save $15. In another instance, airline A offers connection flight to destination that only 1 daily flight, but airline B offers a back tracking connection with 3-5 daily flights, consumer may choose airline B as the consumer may believe more frequencies means better connection protection.

That being said, AA offers several partners in LAX for Asia Pacific flights that including Qantas, Japan Airlines, Cathay Pacific and China Southern. AA has either JV or code share agreements with them. AA can simply provide code share tickets without physically operate the long haul flights in AA's high cost structure and provide domestic feed to partner's network. Win-win.


This makes a lot of sense, it’s a model not unlike AA’s approach to Asia from ORD.

They still have to feed the connections at LAX though.


Perhaps AA to Asia from ORD isn’t the best comparison, it’s virtually non-existent even pre-pandemic. Down to 3x weekly NRT, IIRC, or did that go, too?


I believe the NRT service is history too. It’s all connections on CX and JL.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B712 B722 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B788 B789 MD80 S340 E140 E145 E170 E175 E195 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:38 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
American Airlines plans to add more destinations in Asia from DFW as it shifts away from making LAX its gateway to Asia: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... y-to-asia/

Brian Znotis:

"So when international travel does recover the focus will be on adding destinations in Asia through DFW."


What could we see added from DFW?

- A return to the DFW to Osaka route?
- Guangzhou as part of the China Southern partnership?
- Taipei, Taiwan (DFW-TPE was featured on anna.aero's Unserved Route of The Week: https://www.anna.aero/2018/03/07/dallas ... -searches/)
- Nagoya for Toyota's United States headquarters in Plano?
- A nonstop flight to India? New Delhi? (DFW-DEL is just a bit longer than DFW-HKG. Unsure of any restrictions).
- Doha?...

Either way, it's possible it'll be several years before anything is added. American's long-haul growth will likely come from partner hubs JFK/SEA.


This feels and looks like they'd just start over by adding these flight to DFW first and then later to LAX as they grow those destinations like they did with HKG. Would be odd to not serve those destinations from LAX while making it a hub in the long term


I feel like once the MSC opens up, they will grow at LAX again. The fact that they were using the hangar for some of the international arrivals in the late afternoon may have prompted AA to cut some of those Asia and South America routes early.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:41 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Perhaps AA to Asia from ORD isn’t the best comparison, it’s virtually non-existent even pre-pandemic. Down to 3x weekly NRT, IIRC, or did that go, too?


AA's pax ORD-NRT ended in January but they're operating cargo-only ORD-NRT flights right now.
 
Boston757
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:39 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:16 am

In regards to the PHL-AMS being moved to DFW. In 2018 I was flying PHL-AMS as a LAA employee. AMS station kept talking about the DFW-AMS flight on the 777-200 doing incredibly well and AA was wanting to switch it to the year round due to cargo load and pax. However, at that time the the 777-200 was needed for another route and thus the PHL-AMS on the 767 would remain year round. Now no 767, 777-200 not in high demand for a while and low high end cruises going out in the next year. DFW-AMS with great connection and cargo may be year round. Go DFW!
 
acavpics
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:17 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
It isn't surprising to see AA focus on less competitive hub markets where it has the strongest FFer bases and hub connectivity, while opting to codeshare with high quality partners from places like LAX and JFK that have lost a lot of money...


Looks like international tourists won't be getting on too many AA flights, given that NYC and LAX are major tourist hotspots. Their only major tourist hub now is MIA.

Relocating such flights to core hubs may not give AA the best advantage during Summer and December leisure travel seasons.
Are there like any international tourists who go to DFW?
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3854
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:50 am

acavpics wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
It isn't surprising to see AA focus on less competitive hub markets where it has the strongest FFer bases and hub connectivity, while opting to codeshare with high quality partners from places like LAX and JFK that have lost a lot of money...


Looks like international tourists won't be getting on too many AA flights, given that NYC and LAX are major tourist hotspots. Their only major tourist hub now is MIA.

Relocating such flights to core hubs may not give AA the best advantage during Summer and December leisure travel seasons.
Are there like any international tourists who go to DFW?


AA and the other US carriers' primarily carry Americans to other countries not being foreign tourists here. Foreign Tourists heading to NYC are not generally flying AA. Flying from core hubs builds upon their US point of sale strength.
 
aerace
Posts: 107
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:57 am

Boston757 wrote:
In regards to the PHL-AMS being moved to DFW. In 2018 I was flying PHL-AMS as a LAA employee. AMS station kept talking about the DFW-AMS flight on the 777-200 doing incredibly well and AA was wanting to switch it to the year round due to cargo load and pax. However, at that time the the 777-200 was needed for another route and thus the PHL-AMS on the 767 would remain year round. Now no 767, 777-200 not in high demand for a while and low high end cruises going out in the next year. DFW-AMS with great connection and cargo may be year round. Go DFW!


This was done because PHL couldn’t accept European flights due to lack of Covid screening but starting tomorrow that goes away. AA expanded cargo to AMS from PHL, so it will be interesting to see if they slide AMS (and DUB) back to PHL since they are running cargo opps for both routes and are normally year-round from PHL to begin with.
 
MAH4546
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:05 am

acavpics wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
It isn't surprising to see AA focus on less competitive hub markets where it has the strongest FFer bases and hub connectivity, while opting to codeshare with high quality partners from places like LAX and JFK that have lost a lot of money...


Looks like international tourists won't be getting on too many AA flights, given that NYC and LAX are major tourist hotspots. Their only major tourist hub now is MIA.

Relocating such flights to core hubs may not give AA the best advantage during Summer and December leisure travel seasons.
Are there like any international tourists who go to DFW?


AA still has hubs at JFK and LAX. It even announced plans to start JFKTLV and JFKATH next summer.
a.
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:01 pm

Any word yet on the schedule for JFK - TLV and JFK - ATH?
 
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N62NA
Posts: 4474
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:28 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
acavpics wrote:
SurfandSnow wrote:
It isn't surprising to see AA focus on less competitive hub markets where it has the strongest FFer bases and hub connectivity, while opting to codeshare with high quality partners from places like LAX and JFK that have lost a lot of money...


Looks like international tourists won't be getting on too many AA flights, given that NYC and LAX are major tourist hotspots. Their only major tourist hub now is MIA.

Relocating such flights to core hubs may not give AA the best advantage during Summer and December leisure travel seasons.
Are there like any international tourists who go to DFW?


AA still has hubs at JFK and LAX. It even announced plans to start JFKTLV and JFKATH next summer.


I don't think of JFK as an AA hub, though perhaps with the new jetBlue partnership. LAX, with the new Alaska partnership will be more of a "hub" too.
 
acavpics
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:54 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:44 pm

N62NA wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
acavpics wrote:

Looks like international tourists won't be getting on too many AA flights, given that NYC and LAX are major tourist hotspots. Their only major tourist hub now is MIA.

Relocating such flights to core hubs may not give AA the best advantage during Summer and December leisure travel seasons.
Are there like any international tourists who go to DFW?


AA still has hubs at JFK and LAX. It even announced plans to start JFKTLV and JFKATH next summer.


I don't think of JFK as an AA hub, though perhaps with the new jetBlue partnership. LAX, with the new Alaska partnership will be more of a "hub" too.


Still, the fact that AA will be relying on other carriers for domestic feed is a gloomy, given that DL and UA are not doing this.
 
MLIAA
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:01 am

acavpics wrote:
N62NA wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

AA still has hubs at JFK and LAX. It even announced plans to start JFKTLV and JFKATH next summer.


I don't think of JFK as an AA hub, though perhaps with the new jetBlue partnership. LAX, with the new Alaska partnership will be more of a "hub" too.


Still, the fact that AA will be relying on other carriers for domestic feed is a gloomy, given that DL and UA are not doing this.


I’m not sure “relying” is the right word. AA will still have a massive TATL hub from PHL and an emerging large TPAC hub at DFW, along with the Latin juggernaut at MIA. The SEA Pacific and JFK Atlantic operations are just gravy on top of an already competitive international portfolio, and the JetBlue partnership I feel like is more geared toward snagging NY-based jetBlue FFs, not so much connections.
A319 A320 A321 A332 B712 B722 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B788 B789 MD80 S340 E140 E145 E170 E175 E195 CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9
 
MAH4546
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:28 am

N62NA wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
acavpics wrote:

Looks like international tourists won't be getting on too many AA flights, given that NYC and LAX are major tourist hotspots. Their only major tourist hub now is MIA.

Relocating such flights to core hubs may not give AA the best advantage during Summer and December leisure travel seasons.
Are there like any international tourists who go to DFW?


AA still has hubs at JFK and LAX. It even announced plans to start JFKTLV and JFKATH next summer.


I don't think of JFK as an AA hub, though perhaps with the new jetBlue partnership. LAX, with the new Alaska partnership will be more of a "hub" too.


The JFK operation isn’t big but it’s still a hub in how it operates, though yes certainly nothing like Delta or JetBlue. Hi

AA is the largest airline at LAX. The AS partnership only strengthens that position.
a.
 
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LotsaRunway
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What's AA Doing at PHL?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:12 pm

Granted it is a slow travel day today, but a large number of AA flights have been scrubbed from PHL today. I was just looking at FlightAware and there is not much AA traffic passing through there this morning. Very strange to see. My guess is that connecting traffic is being redirected through other hubs, especially CLT. Has this been in the plans or is this a short-range reaction to recent/today's bookings? Is Philly being operated as a 4-day per week hub?

Mods, if this topic is being covered in one of the mega-threads that I didn't find, feel free to delete.
 
aerace
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Re: What's AA Doing at PHL?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:27 pm

Tuesdays and Saturdays have been heavily cut from PHL. Same with DCA and LGA/JFK.
 
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N62NA
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:31 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
N62NA wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

AA still has hubs at JFK and LAX. It even announced plans to start JFKTLV and JFKATH next summer.


I don't think of JFK as an AA hub, though perhaps with the new jetBlue partnership. LAX, with the new Alaska partnership will be more of a "hub" too.


The JFK operation isn’t big but it’s still a hub in how it operates, though yes certainly nothing like Delta or JetBlue. Hi

AA is the largest airline at LAX. The AS partnership only strengthens that position.



I don't see it (JFK). PHL is a hub.

Also, being the largest airline at LAX doesn't necessarily mean that LAX is a hub for them. PHX is a hub.
 
Deltabravo1123
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Re: What's AA Doing at PHL?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:46 pm

I live right under the PHL approach northwest of the airport, and I haven't noticed many planes landing today now that you mention it. I look up the planes on FlightRadar24 when I hear them fly over. So far it's only been a UPS 767 from Louisville. Definitely not much activity here today. Expected, but unfortunate.
 
flyboy7974
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Re: What's AA Doing at PHL?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:26 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
Granted it is a slow travel day today, but a large number of AA flights have been scrubbed from PHL today. I was just looking at FlightAware and there is not much AA traffic passing through there this morning. Very strange to see. My guess is that connecting traffic is being redirected through other hubs, especially CLT. Has this been in the plans or is this a short-range reaction to recent/today's bookings? Is Philly being operated as a 4-day per week hub?

Mods, if this topic is being covered in one of the mega-threads that I didn't find, feel free to delete.


No different then May or June where Tue/Sat operated a reduced scheduled based lowest pax numbers.
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: What's AA Doing at PHL?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:32 pm

flyboy7974 wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:
Granted it is a slow travel day today, but a large number of AA flights have been scrubbed from PHL today. I was just looking at FlightAware and there is not much AA traffic passing through there this morning. Very strange to see. My guess is that connecting traffic is being redirected through other hubs, especially CLT. Has this been in the plans or is this a short-range reaction to recent/today's bookings? Is Philly being operated as a 4-day per week hub?

Mods, if this topic is being covered in one of the mega-threads that I didn't find, feel free to delete.


No different then May or June where Tue/Sat operated a reduced scheduled based lowest pax numbers.

Have you looked at today's operations??? It is way down from May and June Tue/Sat. As in not hubbing at all.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: What's AA Doing at PHL?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:45 pm

LotsaRunway wrote:
flyboy7974 wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:
Granted it is a slow travel day today, but a large number of AA flights have been scrubbed from PHL today. I was just looking at FlightAware and there is not much AA traffic passing through there this morning. Very strange to see. My guess is that connecting traffic is being redirected through other hubs, especially CLT. Has this been in the plans or is this a short-range reaction to recent/today's bookings? Is Philly being operated as a 4-day per week hub?

Mods, if this topic is being covered in one of the mega-threads that I didn't find, feel free to delete.


No different then May or June where Tue/Sat operated a reduced scheduled based lowest pax numbers.

Have you looked at today's operations??? It is way down from May and June Tue/Sat. As in not hubbing at all.


It's actually larger than May/June: "Philadelphia will see 126 flights a day, but Tuesday and Saturday sit around 25. Again, that is mostly service to the hubs but also to Boston, Ft Lauderdale, Orlando, and Watertown (New York)"
https://crankyflier.com/2020/04/06/anal ... -schedule/

Image
https://crankyflier.com/2020/08/17/alas ... t-extends/
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LotsaRunway
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Re: What's AA Doing at PHL?

Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:09 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
LotsaRunway wrote:
flyboy7974 wrote:

No different then May or June where Tue/Sat operated a reduced scheduled based lowest pax numbers.

Have you looked at today's operations??? It is way down from May and June Tue/Sat. As in not hubbing at all.


It's actually larger than May/June: "Philadelphia will see 126 flights a day, but Tuesday and Saturday sit around 25. Again, that is mostly service to the hubs but also to Boston, Ft Lauderdale, Orlando, and Watertown (New York)"
https://crankyflier.com/2020/04/06/anal ... -schedule/

Image
https://crankyflier.com/2020/08/17/alas ... t-extends/

I stand corrected. I had no idea that AA basically dehubbed PHL two days a week as early as May.
 
MrPeanut
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:08 pm

acavpics wrote:
I don't understand the rationale behind shifting the TPAC gateway from LAX to DFW. Dallas is smack-dab in the middle of the country. Are they expecting fliers from Arizona, Nevada, Colorado etc to back-track all the way to Dallas before flying across the Pacific?


The rationale is quite simple. LAX was a money pit for AA. Covid just accelerated the inevitable decision to close LAX as the TPAC gateway.
 
acavpics
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:49 pm

MrPeanut wrote:
acavpics wrote:
I don't understand the rationale behind shifting the TPAC gateway from LAX to DFW. Dallas is smack-dab in the middle of the country. Are they expecting fliers from Arizona, Nevada, Colorado etc to back-track all the way to Dallas before flying across the Pacific?


The rationale is quite simple. LAX was a money pit for AA. Covid just accelerated the inevitable decision to close LAX as the TPAC gateway.


If LAX is such a loss-maker, then why does nearly every airline have hub or focus city operations there?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:57 pm

acavpics wrote:
MrPeanut wrote:
acavpics wrote:
I don't understand the rationale behind shifting the TPAC gateway from LAX to DFW. Dallas is smack-dab in the middle of the country. Are they expecting fliers from Arizona, Nevada, Colorado etc to back-track all the way to Dallas before flying across the Pacific?


The rationale is quite simple. LAX was a money pit for AA. Covid just accelerated the inevitable decision to close LAX as the TPAC gateway.


If LAX is such a loss-maker, then why does nearly every airline have hub or focus city operations there?


It's arguably the 1st or 2nd most important airport in the nation due to the O&D base
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LAXintl
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:03 pm

acavpics wrote:
If LAX is such a loss-maker, then why does nearly every airline have hub or focus city operations there?


As a Delta VP told me at an event explaining why they have repeatedly have pushed to make something big in L.A, it's not about trying to win over the Angeleno customer, but it's about being a viable option and serving their customers in the rest of the nation that want to travel to L.A.

He went on to explain, that they know it will always be hard to win in L.A. as its such a fractured market, but not being in the 2nd largest U.S. travel market with compelling offering is more even expensive. If they did not offer good L.A. access they would be deprived of various corp contracts, FF members, and broader revenue loss.
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legend500
Posts: 172
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:11 pm

MLIAA wrote:
acavpics wrote:
N62NA wrote:

I don't think of JFK as an AA hub, though perhaps with the new jetBlue partnership. LAX, with the new Alaska partnership will be more of a "hub" too.


Still, the fact that AA will be relying on other carriers for domestic feed is a gloomy, given that DL and UA are not doing this.


I’m not sure “relying” is the right word. AA will still have a massive TATL hub from PHL and an emerging large TPAC hub at DFW, along with the Latin juggernaut at MIA. The SEA Pacific and JFK Atlantic operations are just gravy on top of an already competitive international portfolio, and the JetBlue partnership I feel like is more geared toward snagging NY-based jetBlue FFs, not so much connections.


I would agree that "relying" isn't the right word, but for yet another reason which seems to have been skipped over. However, If I was PHL I'd be somewhat concerned. PHL is kind of an oddball in TATL operations, with a lot of AAs already flying over, and being part of the Corridor but not THE part of it. If CLT had capacity, it would be even more worrying, but I do thing there's cause to worry about further reductions to PHL, for reasons further on...

MrPeanut wrote:
acavpics wrote:
I don't understand the rationale behind shifting the TPAC gateway from LAX to DFW. Dallas is smack-dab in the middle of the country. Are they expecting fliers from Arizona, Nevada, Colorado etc to back-track all the way to Dallas before flying across the Pacific?


The rationale is quite simple. LAX was a money pit for AA. Covid just accelerated the inevitable decision to close LAX as the TPAC gateway.


Absolutely part of it. LAX is not the money-printing-machine that DFW is.

x1234 wrote:
The only NGO flight to the Lower 48 is DL's DTW-NGO which supports the Auto industry (Toyota world HQ is in Nagoya). With Toyota moving their US HQ from LA to Dallas it makes perfect sense. DFW-TPE would be a tech route (Taipei is the global center of the computer/semiconductor industry). CAN is on thin ice as premium yields in South China are to HKG plus CAN is only a 45 minute bullet train ride away from HKG anyways (With SZX/Shenzhen in the middle, China's Silicon Valley). CAN doesn't add anything of value to AA as CX serves every major city in Southeast and South Asia from HKG.


Definitely a part of it. AA's real concern is corporate accounts, and DFW makes much more sense that it used to on that account. I imagine AA's seeing something in the through-bookings to DFW, which would make sense for the auto and semiconductor industries. With Toyota and McClaren already in the Dallas area, and especially with the rumored Honda move to Dallas and Tesla move to Austin, this makes a lot of business sense.

I suspect there may be another motivation to what's going on. A big reduction to LAX in favor of DFW, and a smaller one to PHL, makes for the possibility of a one-stop connection to Europe and Latin America for city pairs which aren't served now, say CAN-DUB. Pair that with a fleet of 787s and a large domestic feed... I think AA may be thinking about building a Dubai-but-ridiculouser out of DFW. Of course, it will take years to do that, but the ball's rolling on much of the stuff needed to get it done. DFW has delayed Terminal F/4W and the C/3E rebuild for the moment, but went ahead with a test bond sale which went very, very well for the Airport. It would not surprise me if they went ahead with the projects relatively soon (as in within the next 2 years, given the current market).
 
acavpics
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:49 pm

legend500 wrote:
I suspect there may be another motivation to what's going on. A big reduction to LAX in favor of DFW, and a smaller one to PHL, makes for the possibility of a one-stop connection to Europe and Latin America for city pairs which aren't served now, say CAN-DUB. Pair that with a fleet of 787s and a large domestic feed... I think AA may be thinking about building a Dubai-but-ridiculouser out of DFW. Of course, it will take years to do that, but the ball's rolling on much of the stuff needed to get it done. DFW has delayed Terminal F/4W and the C/3E rebuild for the moment, but went ahead with a test bond sale which went very, very well for the Airport. It would not surprise me if they went ahead with the projects relatively soon (as in within the next 2 years, given the current market).


So that sounds like AA wants to make DFW a connecting hub for international-to-international transfers. But then, how successful would that be, given that DFW (like ALL US airports) doesn't have strict "international transit" terminal? Unlike in other countries, passengers arriving on an international flight would have to wait through customs/immigration, collect baggage, recheck their bags, clear security and only then board their onward connection.

Do a lot of people do that? With so many more transit hubs that popped up around, I'd guess many, if not most folks would try to find a clean, efficient international connection.
 
joeblow10
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:04 am

acavpics wrote:
legend500 wrote:
I suspect there may be another motivation to what's going on. A big reduction to LAX in favor of DFW, and a smaller one to PHL, makes for the possibility of a one-stop connection to Europe and Latin America for city pairs which aren't served now, say CAN-DUB. Pair that with a fleet of 787s and a large domestic feed... I think AA may be thinking about building a Dubai-but-ridiculouser out of DFW. Of course, it will take years to do that, but the ball's rolling on much of the stuff needed to get it done. DFW has delayed Terminal F/4W and the C/3E rebuild for the moment, but went ahead with a test bond sale which went very, very well for the Airport. It would not surprise me if they went ahead with the projects relatively soon (as in within the next 2 years, given the current market).


So that sounds like AA wants to make DFW a connecting hub for international-to-international transfers. But then, how successful would that be, given that DFW (like ALL US airports) doesn't have strict "international transit" terminal? Unlike in other countries, passengers arriving on an international flight would have to wait through customs/immigration, collect baggage, recheck their bags, clear security and only then board their onward connection.

Do a lot of people do that? With so many more transit hubs that popped up around, I'd guess many, if not most folks would try to find a clean, efficient international connection.


I would hazard a guess that most travelers in this target category for AA (I to I connectors) aren't the wiser to such a requirement or it being any different at DFW than anywhere else in the world. Ok, your frequent world travelers might be and might book away from US airlines because of it, but the person traveling once a year (or even once in a lifetime) from Asia or Europe to South America, probably has no idea when booking their ticket.

I'm not sure how large a market it is - but DL and now it's JV partners have certainly gone after these folks for years using ATL, for example. Seems to work fairly well
 
kavok
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:12 am

I still don’t get the DFW as the TPAC logic. Yes, DFW is the AA mothership and it seems AA wants to route as much as possible through DFW (much like DL with ATL). But DFW is a horrible geographic location for making a Domestic US connection to Asia from anywhere outside greater Texas.

ORD is a much better location geographically, and is well positioned to capture the MIA and CLT hubs, and not too far out of the way from DCA, PHL, or even DFW. I know ORD had it’s challenges, but I fail to see why more money can be made flying people further south to DFW, only to go North again over Alaska.

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