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wedgetail737
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:45 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
JAC is popular for skiing. It actually is even more popular in summer as the gateway to Grand Teton NP and Yellowstone. Plus massive amount of millionaire billionaires playing wanna be ranchers.


Including Harrison Ford.

I hope AS makes the SEA-JAC route year-round.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:46 pm

A lot of the big ski markets already have nonstop service to EGE. Plus some of the service is tied to the community air service agreements and to some degree revenue guarantees.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:50 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:

Kind of obvious why it didn't operate this summer


Jackson Hole has been absolutely slammed with visitors this summer. Grand Teton National Park, where JAC is located, had its second busiest August ever, behind only the solar eclipse year 2017.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:09 pm

stapleton wrote:

Looking further, it appears AA dropped the JAC-BOS that had been scheduled for the first time this winter.


Dang, was looking forward to that route. Give it a few weeks and JetBlue will pick it up :spin:
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:00 pm

At the moment only

PHX-LAP is loaded at 3 weekly from December 18th - April 3rd, resumes June 3rd for the summer
DFW-LAP Saturday only, from December 19th until April 3rd, resumes June 4 for the summer.

Nothing yet on LTO , however I assume it will be a similar schedule

I know this maybe a bad reference using google flights, but this morning both PHX-LTO & GYM opened as a non stop options even though no flights are loaded, I wonder if AA will resume GYM,
https://www.google.com/flights?hl=en&gl ... 1;t:f;tt:o

Would anyone know if CUU would come back to PHX? It was launched last December along with RAP, COS & ICT who are still not loaded
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:19 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
A lot of the big ski markets already have nonstop service to EGE. Plus some of the service is tied to the community air service agreements and to some degree revenue guarantees.


Vail Resorts subsidizes alot of AA's service at EGE. I would not be surprised if Vail Resorts chose a different carrier in the future as AA has had to greatly reduce lift due the retirement of its 757 fleet. Going from 180+ seats on every flight to 128 can't make the resorts happy especially with the premium cabins downsized from 24 to 8.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:35 pm

usflyer msp wrote:

Vail Resorts subsidizes alot of AA's service at EGE.


Could you outline how Vail Resorts does that, please?
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:38 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Vail Resorts subsidizes alot of AA's service at EGE.


Could you outline how Vail Resorts does that, please?


https://mountaintownnews.net/2014/01/19 ... t-flights/

"Vail Resorts, owner of Vail Mountain and Beaver Creek, the two single greatest beneficiaries of winter-time flights, has provided the financial wherewithal for winter flights, in some years paying out up to $2 million in revenue guarantees. The company in recent years has not publicly disclosed its financial commitment. Some people close to the situation think revenue guarantees are paid for two or so of the dozens of flights into the airport."
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:46 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Vail Resorts subsidizes alot of AA's service at EGE.


Could you outline how Vail Resorts does that, please?


There’s a revenue guarantee but the reality is it really isn’t needed anymore except probably PHL and PHX.
Last edited by MAH4546 on Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
a.
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:47 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
A lot of the big ski markets already have nonstop service to EGE. Plus some of the service is tied to the community air service agreements and to some degree revenue guarantees.


Vail Resorts subsidizes alot of AA's service at EGE. I would not be surprised if Vail Resorts chose a different carrier in the future as AA has had to greatly reduce lift due the retirement of its 757 fleet. Going from 180+ seats on every flight to 128 can't make the resorts happy especially with the premium cabins downsized from 24 to 8.


The routes largely are self sustained. AA would operate without the revenue guarantee then there would be overcapacity. Vail’s three largest local markets are New York, Miami and Dallas. And I think LA and Chicago are four and five. AA will fly them regardless. There’s multiple frequencies as is to Dallas and if really needed they can throw a second flight a few days a week to Miami, the market is big enough.

AA is also important because it feeds Vail’s largest international market: Brazil. Brazilians love Vail.
a.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:57 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Vail Resorts subsidizes alot of AA's service at EGE.


Could you outline how Vail Resorts does that, please?


https://mountaintownnews.net/2014/01/19 ... t-flights/

"Vail Resorts, owner of Vail Mountain and Beaver Creek, the two single greatest beneficiaries of winter-time flights, has provided the financial wherewithal for winter flights, in some years paying out up to $2 million in revenue guarantees. The company in recent years has not publicly disclosed its financial commitment. Some people close to the situation think revenue guarantees are paid for two or so of the dozens of flights into the airport."


Thanks for citing that. It dates to 2014.

Even if they still maintain a revenue guarantee it doesn't mean funds are paid, not if passenger counts and fares are healthy.
 
joeblow10
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:20 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Could you outline how Vail Resorts does that, please?


https://mountaintownnews.net/2014/01/19 ... t-flights/

"Vail Resorts, owner of Vail Mountain and Beaver Creek, the two single greatest beneficiaries of winter-time flights, has provided the financial wherewithal for winter flights, in some years paying out up to $2 million in revenue guarantees. The company in recent years has not publicly disclosed its financial commitment. Some people close to the situation think revenue guarantees are paid for two or so of the dozens of flights into the airport."


Thanks for citing that. It dates to 2014.

Even if they still maintain a revenue guarantee it doesn't mean funds are paid, not if passenger counts and fares are healthy.


It’s fairly well known all these major resorts in the US have MRGs. They can be structured in such a way where even if pax counts are healthy, the resort is still paying them out. Places like MTJ and HDN would have nowhere near the amount of service they do without them.
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:24 pm

Don't assume all new service to ski towns involves MRGs. The Jackson Hole Air Improvement Resources Board did not even know about Alaska Airlines' three new routes before they were announced.
https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/bus ... c7b9b.html
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:22 pm

DFW-LIM, JFK-GRU/EZE, MIA-GIG delayed from late-October to mid-December.

CLT-BZN/MTJ/JAC added (noted by other thread)

DFW-SAL brought forward from June 2021 to November 4, 2020

DFW-LTO is 1x weekly, PHX-LTO 4x weekly.

BOS-JAC cut (never began).

https://crankyflier.com/2020/09/21/more ... ew-routes/
 
Buddys747
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Re: AA adds CLT - BZN, JAC, MTJ

Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:12 am

    PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
    The Icon Pass is increasing drawing more destination skiers into Jackson Hole and Big Sky. It has changed the skiing dynamics in both of these resorts over the past few years.

    And the Epic pass is causing people like myself to continually fly to BZN to ski the likes of Big Sky because back here there is no reasonable prices pass anymore in central PA since becoming ‘Epic’. The 5 day IKON option and pre and post season days included blows the Epic pass away for me.
    While at MDT we have more options than before, this will help smaller cities that might only have service to CLT and PHL have one stop options.
     
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    N62NA
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:41 am

    MAH4546 wrote:
    N62NA wrote:
    MAH4546 wrote:

    The JFK operation isn’t big but it’s still a hub in how it operates, though yes certainly nothing like Delta or JetBlue. Hi

    AA is the largest airline at LAX. The AS partnership only strengthens that position.



    I don't see it (JFK). PHL is a hub.

    Also, being the largest airline at LAX doesn't necessarily mean that LAX is a hub for them. PHX is a hub.


    They are both hubs. What we “see” is irrelevant. AA has hub operations there and calls them hubs. LAX is a major transit point for AA customers. Not sure what’s not to see.


    Are you purposely being obtuse?

    So then, how many people need to connect at an airport on the same airline for it to be a "hub" airport?
     
    MAH4546
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:33 am

    N62NA wrote:
    MAH4546 wrote:
    N62NA wrote:


    I don't see it (JFK). PHL is a hub.

    Also, being the largest airline at LAX doesn't necessarily mean that LAX is a hub for them. PHX is a hub.


    They are both hubs. What we “see” is irrelevant. AA has hub operations there and calls them hubs. LAX is a major transit point for AA customers. Not sure what’s not to see.


    Are you purposely being obtuse?

    So then, how many people need to connect at an airport on the same airline for it to be a "hub" airport?


    If an airline calls it a hub it’s a hub. That’s so insanely simple.
    a.
     
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    N62NA
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:06 pm

    MAH4546 wrote:
    N62NA wrote:
    MAH4546 wrote:

    They are both hubs. What we “see” is irrelevant. AA has hub operations there and calls them hubs. LAX is a major transit point for AA customers. Not sure what’s not to see.


    Are you purposely being obtuse?

    So then, how many people need to connect at an airport on the same airline for it to be a "hub" airport?


    If an airline calls it a hub it’s a hub. That’s so insanely simple.


    OK, sure.
     
    FSDan
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:16 am

    Ishrion wrote:
    Cointrin330 wrote:

    AA on LAX-HKG isn't competition for Cathay Pacific. It's a code-share. They are both part of the same alliance and CX's product is generally better than AA's, although the business class seats on their 77Ws are the same. The soft product on CX is what makes it a better choice. AA will likely not resume any LAX-China and HKG services and just keep HND, and focus on SYD, AKL, and eventually, MEL and CHC, and maybe BNE.


    Needing clarification on the difference between a codeshare and joint venture:

    Aren't two airlines operating the same route competing against each other despite a codeshare? They can only sell seats on each others' flights but still compete for passengers?

    In contrast, a joint venture allows airlines to essentially become one airline and eliminate competition? They can coordinate schedules, share revenue, etc.


    Your understanding is correct.
    This is my signature until I think of a better one.
     
    DMPHL
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:08 am

    N62NA wrote:
    MAH4546 wrote:
    N62NA wrote:

    Are you purposely being obtuse?

    So then, how many people need to connect at an airport on the same airline for it to be a "hub" airport?


    If an airline calls it a hub it’s a hub. That’s so insanely simple.


    OK, sure.


    I think the point is that it doesn't matter whether someone on A.net wants to call an airport a hub or not based on their own criteria or their own opinion of how many flights or connecting markets an airport needs to be defined as a hub.

    Whatever American Airlines' own definition is—based on market importance, feed and connecting flows between particular markets, operational structure and staffing, mechanical and maintenance operations, cargo, customer service functions, and whatever else—they consider JFK a hub.
     
    usairways85
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:05 pm

    AA Cargo October schedule:
    https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/Octob ... hedule.pdf

    Not too many changes.
     
    Ishrion
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:13 pm

    AA's October widebody schedule: https://www.aacargo.com/about/keepmoving.html

    Some notes:

    - 787-8 service to Miami begins October 11 with PHL-MIA then DFW-MIA 787-9 from October 25
    - MIA-ORD sees the 777-300ER from Oct 25
    - DFW-EZE/GRU resume October 24 with passenger flights
    - DFW-OGG resumes Oct. 1 (pretty sure this was moved forward from October 25)
    - JFK-GRU dropped for October (operating in Sept.)
    - DFW-ICN sees the 772 from Oct. 1 (been a few years since the route's seen the 772)

    - Passenger DFW-PVG will stop in ICN and run 2x weekly instead of daily.

    - LHR-PHL/CLT/RDU/BOS/PHX, PHL-MAD not showing the October schedule

    Note that the majority of these are not reflected on aa.com. Guess we'll see some sort of update from AA in the coming days or they'll push everything through the bookings in the coming weekends, or this widebody schedule isn't correctly updated.
     
    rjbesikof
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:29 pm

    Ishrion wrote:
    AA's October widebody schedule: https://www.aacargo.com/about/keepmoving.html

    Some notes:

    - 787-8 service to Miami begins October 11 with PHL-MIA then DFW-MIA 787-9 from October 25
    - MIA-ORD sees the 777-300ER from Oct 25
    - DFW-EZE/GRU resume October 24 with passenger flights
    - DFW-OGG resumes Oct. 1 (pretty sure this was moved forward from October 25)
    - JFK-GRU dropped for October (operating in Sept.)
    - DFW-ICN sees the 772 from Oct. 1 (been a few years since the route's seen the 772)

    - Passenger DFW-PVG will stop in ICN and run 2x weekly instead of daily.

    - LHR-PHL/CLT/RDU/BOS/PHX, PHL-MAD not showing the October schedule

    Note that the majority of these are not reflected on aa.com. Guess we'll see some sort of update from AA in the coming days or they'll push everything through the bookings in the coming weekends, or this widebody schedule isn't correctly updated.


    Surprised that the LHR flights are not starting from CLT/PHL given that Europe flights can arrive at any airport now and the latter will be AA's Europe hub. As for the Dallas-Shanghai flights, I was wondering if the Chinese government allowed airlines to add more frequencies between the US and China. Because as far as I am concerned the 8 frequencies permitted are taken by both Delta and United.
     
    AAtakeMeAway
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:43 pm

    rjbesikof wrote:
    Ishrion wrote:
    AA's October widebody schedule: https://www.aacargo.com/about/keepmoving.html

    Some notes:

    - 787-8 service to Miami begins October 11 with PHL-MIA then DFW-MIA 787-9 from October 25
    - MIA-ORD sees the 777-300ER from Oct 25
    - DFW-EZE/GRU resume October 24 with passenger flights
    - DFW-OGG resumes Oct. 1 (pretty sure this was moved forward from October 25)
    - JFK-GRU dropped for October (operating in Sept.)
    - DFW-ICN sees the 772 from Oct. 1 (been a few years since the route's seen the 772)

    - Passenger DFW-PVG will stop in ICN and run 2x weekly instead of daily.

    - LHR-PHL/CLT/RDU/BOS/PHX, PHL-MAD not showing the October schedule

    Note that the majority of these are not reflected on aa.com. Guess we'll see some sort of update from AA in the coming days or they'll push everything through the bookings in the coming weekends, or this widebody schedule isn't correctly updated.


    Surprised that the LHR flights are not starting from CLT/PHL given that Europe flights can arrive at any airport now and the latter will be AA's Europe hub. As for the Dallas-Shanghai flights, I was wondering if the Chinese government allowed airlines to add more frequencies between the US and China. Because as far as I am concerned the 8 frequencies permitted are taken by both Delta and United.


    Regarding your comment on DFW-PVG -- Does it matter that these are cargo only?
     
    DMPHL
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:14 pm

    rjbesikof wrote:
    Surprised that the LHR flights are not starting from CLT/PHL given that Europe flights can arrive at any airport now and the latter will be AA's Europe hub. As for the Dallas-Shanghai flights, I was wondering if the Chinese government allowed airlines to add more frequencies between the US and China. Because as far as I am concerned the 8 frequencies permitted are taken by both Delta and United.


    Yea but I think the economics may still just not work out. With higher-yielding leisure travel and business travel down significantly to places like Europe, both the local PHL passenger base and the domestic feed necessary to make a hub work economically maybe just aren't there at the moment.
     
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    Midwestindy
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:16 pm

    “One of the things we are looking at is whether we should use some of those widebodies to just do things like fly New York to Miami and Chicago to Miami.”
    https://viewfromthewing.com/four-princi ... is-winter/
    Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
     
    Ishrion
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:11 pm

    Midwestindy wrote:
    “One of the things we are looking at is whether we should use some of those widebodies to just do things like fly New York to Miami and Chicago to Miami.”
    https://viewfromthewing.com/four-princi ... is-winter/


    ORD-MIA is 777-300ER, PHL-MIA is 787-8, and LAX-MIA is 777-300ER (up from 772 in September) in October according to AA's latest widebody schedule.

    Also:

    They want to return to China quickly, saying they “are looking at trying to bring the Dallas Fort-Worth to Shanghai flight back…If we were a little further ahead in our integration with Alaska we’d be looking at trying to advance the Seattle – Shanghai flight.”


    Sounds like DFW-PVG is being accelerated from October 24 to October 9.
     
    dcajet
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:09 pm

    American Airlines has become the first airline authorized by Argentina's ANAC to resume daily MIA-EZE service. Effective Oct. 7. Presently the airline is only operating MIA-EZE 2x w on a special waiver authority. AA907/08 will operate with the 77E.
    Keep calm and wash your hands.
     
    Ishrion
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:29 pm

    Bunch of AA changes over the weekend for passenger long-haul flights:

    - LHR-LAX/PHL/CLT/BOS/RDU/PHX resumption delayed from October 24 to March 27, 2021
    - DFW-PVG delayed to November 4
    - PHL-MAD, CLT-MUC delayed from October 24 to March 27
    - DFW-HKG delayed from October 24 to December 17
    - DFW-DUB that was shifted from PHL for the winter has been cancelled.
    - DFW-AMS for the winter (shifted from PHL) reduced from 1x daily to 3x weekly.
    - DFW-LHR will maintain 1x daily throughout the winter, not 3-4x daily.
    - ORD-LHR upgauges to 777-300ER from October 25.
     
    rjbesikof
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:55 pm

    Ishrion wrote:
    Bunch of AA changes over the weekend for passenger long-haul flights:

    - LHR-LAX/PHL/CLT/BOS/RDU/PHX resumption delayed from October 24 to March 27, 2021
    - DFW-PVG delayed to November 4
    - PHL-MAD, CLT-MUC delayed from October 24 to March 27
    - DFW-HKG delayed from October 24 to December 17
    - DFW-DUB that was shifted from PHL for the winter has been cancelled.
    - DFW-AMS for the winter (shifted from PHL) reduced from 1x daily to 3x weekly.
    - DFW-LHR will maintain 1x daily throughout the winter, not 3-4x daily.
    - ORD-LHR upgauges to 777-300ER from October 25.


    All of the European flight suspensions must be because of the second wave going on over there. What long haul international flights is AA planning to operate this winter (including South America)?
     
    HNLSLCPDX
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:06 am

    Two things: does anyone know why AA doesn’t fly PHX-PRC? And does anyone know how the PHX-SGU flight is doing?
     
    Ishrion
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:09 am

    Ishrion wrote:
    Bunch of AA changes over the weekend for passenger long-haul flights:

    - LHR-LAX/PHL/CLT/BOS/RDU/PHX resumption delayed from October 24 to March 27, 2021
    - DFW-PVG delayed to November 4
    - PHL-MAD, CLT-MUC delayed from October 24 to March 27
    - DFW-HKG delayed from October 24 to December 17
    - DFW-DUB that was shifted from PHL for the winter has been cancelled.
    - DFW-AMS for the winter (shifted from PHL) reduced from 1x daily to 3x weekly.
    - DFW-LHR will maintain 1x daily throughout the winter, not 3-4x daily.
    - ORD-LHR upgauges to 777-300ER from October 25.


    Sorry, not sure how I missed it - CLT-LHR is still going for the winter at 3x weekly.

    https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/
     
    aviator2000
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:06 pm

    Ishrion wrote:
    Bunch of AA changes over the weekend for passenger long-haul flights:

    - LHR-LAX/PHL/CLT/BOS/RDU/PHX resumption delayed from October 24 to March 27, 2021
    - DFW-PVG delayed to November 4
    - PHL-MAD, CLT-MUC delayed from October 24 to March 27
    - DFW-HKG delayed from October 24 to December 17
    - DFW-DUB that was shifted from PHL for the winter has been cancelled.
    - DFW-AMS for the winter (shifted from PHL) reduced from 1x daily to 3x weekly.
    - DFW-LHR will maintain 1x daily throughout the winter, not 3-4x daily.
    - ORD-LHR upgauges to 777-300ER from October 25.

    MIA-BCN also cancelled for the winter.
     
    RL757PVD
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:15 pm

    HNLSLCPDX wrote:
    Two things: does anyone know why AA doesn’t fly PHX-PRC? And does anyone know how the PHX-SGU flight is doing?


    I've done SGU-PHX (or reverse) 3x since Covid and every flight is at or near 100% full, it was actually the first full flight I had in my post-covid travels.
    Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
     
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    cathay747
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:20 pm

    HNLSLCPDX wrote:
    Two things: does anyone know why AA doesn’t fly PHX-PRC? And does anyone know how the PHX-SGU flight is doing?


    I've never been able to understand why PHX-PRC doesn't seem to work as a spoke from the PHX hub. HP ran it for a while at least with their regional arm, but I don't think US ever did, and AA never has since the merger with US. I know PHX-PRC won't work local-market alone as it's been tried by Great Lakes; even with EAS subsidy they couldn't charge a fare low enough to compete with the van service (hell, even with limo service!). But as a spoke from the hub? I don't understand the problem. PRC has grown so much over the decades, largely with Calif. transplants, you'd think there would be plenty of traffic to support at least 2 daily connections from PHX. My mom has lived there for 25+ years, so I know a good deal about this; not saying I'm 100% correct on everything, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. AS tried running QX from LAX using a triangle route combined with FLG, and it didn't last long...but that may have been because they didn't have enough feed at LAX back then to make it work. UA seems to be making their Express CRJ flights work at PRC to both DEN & LAX.

    In short, it's weird. To me anyway.
    Try a Little VC-10derness
     
    chonetsao
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:48 pm

    rjbesikof wrote:
    All of the European flight suspensions must be because of the second wave going on over there. What long haul international flights is AA planning to operate this winter (including South America)?


    It also indicates that AA don't think the US travel ban will get lifted any time soon.

    Have a look at the AA Cargo document linked above in post 1971, it has all the information for the month of October. I would like to think the routes would be much the same or even less for November.
     
    Ishrion
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:00 pm

    rjbesikof wrote:

    What long haul international flights is AA planning to operate this winter (including South America)?


    For the period October 24, 2020 to March 26, 2021 (includes staggered resumptions):

    - DFW-PVG/HKG/NRT/HND/ICN/AMS/FRA/LHR/CDG/MAD/GRU/EZE
    - CLT-LHR
    - LAX-HND/SYD
    - ORD-LHR
    - MIA-LHR/EZE/MVD/GIG/GRU/SCL
    - JFK-LHR/EZE/GRU

    Might be missing some.

    There's also several shorter flights to South America such as DFW-BOG, MIA-BAQ/CLO/GYE/UIO, and more.
     
    rjbesikof
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:41 pm

    Ishrion wrote:
    rjbesikof wrote:

    What long haul international flights is AA planning to operate this winter (including South America)?


    For the period October 24, 2020 to March 26, 2021 (includes staggered resumptions):

    - DFW-PVG/HKG/NRT/HND/ICN/AMS/FRA/LHR/CDG/MAD/GRU/EZE
    - CLT-LHR
    - LAX-HND/SYD
    - ORD-LHR
    - MIA-LHR/EZE/MVD/GIG/GRU/SCL
    - JFK-LHR/EZE/GRU

    Might be missing some.

    There's also several shorter flights to South America such as DFW-BOG, MIA-BAQ/CLO/GYE/UIO, and more.


    Thanks Ishrion,
    Looks like their focus for NW20 is South America.
     
    toltommy
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:07 pm

    RL757PVD wrote:
    I've done SGU-PHX (or reverse) 3x since Covid and every flight is at or near 100% full, it was actually the first full flight I had in my post-covid travels.


    Because of a crew base and Skywest corporate HQ in SGU, I highly doubt your flights were full of revenue travellers. There's probably a good number of deadheading crew, company business travel, and non-revs in that particular market.
    A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333 / 707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753
    /762/763/764/772/788/789/DC8/DC9-10/30/40/50/MD81/83/87/88/90/L1011-/250/500/CRJ200/440 /700/900/EMB135/140/145/170/175/190/328Jet/F70/SF3/BE1/J31
     
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    BA744PHX
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:20 pm

    toltommy wrote:
    RL757PVD wrote:
    I've done SGU-PHX (or reverse) 3x since Covid and every flight is at or near 100% full, it was actually the first full flight I had in my post-covid travels.


    Because of a crew base and Skywest corporate HQ in SGU, I highly doubt your flights were full of revenue travellers. There's probably a good number of deadheading crew, company business travel, and non-revs in that particular market.


    PHX-SGU was running 3 day pre covid, I doubt SGU would have many if any deadheading crew due to the Skywest HQ
     
    dcajet
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:28 am

    It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

    If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

    https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/
    Keep calm and wash your hands.
     
    jmc1975
    Posts: 3065
    Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:04 am

    cathay747 wrote:
    HNLSLCPDX wrote:
    Two things: does anyone know why AA doesn’t fly PHX-PRC? And does anyone know how the PHX-SGU flight is doing?


    I've never been able to understand why PHX-PRC doesn't seem to work as a spoke from the PHX hub. HP ran it for a while at least with their regional arm, but I don't think US ever did, and AA never has since the merger with US. I know PHX-PRC won't work local-market alone as it's been tried by Great Lakes; even with EAS subsidy they couldn't charge a fare low enough to compete with the van service (hell, even with limo service!). But as a spoke from the hub? I don't understand the problem. PRC has grown so much over the decades, largely with Calif. transplants, you'd think there would be plenty of traffic to support at least 2 daily connections from PHX. My mom has lived there for 25+ years, so I know a good deal about this; not saying I'm 100% correct on everything, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. AS tried running QX from LAX using a triangle route combined with FLG, and it didn't last long...but that may have been because they didn't have enough feed at LAX back then to make it work. UA seems to be making their Express CRJ flights work at PRC to both DEN & LAX.

    In short, it's weird. To me anyway.


    I’ve flown PHX-PRC on Mesa many times in the 90s and early 2000s when it was America West Express on Beech 1900s. You are correct and there is practically no local demand for the flight, but there are several other factors that would make the argument for a spoke from PHX challenging in today’s landscape:

    - The Beech 1900 flights on PHX-PRC were combined with IGM or PGA, which helped spread out the costs with the other stations.

    - There is ample and frequent ground transportation to PHX that competes for what demand of connecting traffic is there.

    - There is no ideal aircraft in the AA Eagle fleet that could economically carry out the mission on the 87 mile segment. Any CRJ would be to big or inefficient for that route. Also, the closer a spoke is to a hub, the more vulnerable it becomes to delays and misconnects should there be weather or ATC issues.

    - It was Skywest that was awarded the EAS subsidy to PRC, not UA. DEN (and LAX to a lesser extent) not only has decent local demand from PRC, but also connects to markets that AA could have done via PHX.

    This may seem a little far-fetched, but Instead of PHX-PRC, AA may find that there would be more network value to have a 1x daily DFW-PRC with a CRJ-700, which would then open up even more possible connections than what DEN, LAX or PHX would be able to offer.
    .......
     
    usflyer msp
    Posts: 3865
    Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:05 am

    dcajet wrote:
    It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

    If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

    https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/


    AA announced they were not operating JFK-GIG in Winter 2020 back in July. As of now, they are still planning on bringing it back in Winter 2021.

    https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/

    I believe DL has permanently cancelled JFK-GIG.
     
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    BA744PHX
    Posts: 384
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    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:27 am

    jmc1975 wrote:
    cathay747 wrote:
    HNLSLCPDX wrote:
    Two things: does anyone know why AA doesn’t fly PHX-PRC? And does anyone know how the PHX-SGU flight is doing?


    I've never been able to understand why PHX-PRC doesn't seem to work as a spoke from the PHX hub. HP ran it for a while at least with their regional arm, but I don't think US ever did, and AA never has since the merger with US. I know PHX-PRC won't work local-market alone as it's been tried by Great Lakes; even with EAS subsidy they couldn't charge a fare low enough to compete with the van service (hell, even with limo service!). But as a spoke from the hub? I don't understand the problem. PRC has grown so much over the decades, largely with Calif. transplants, you'd think there would be plenty of traffic to support at least 2 daily connections from PHX. My mom has lived there for 25+ years, so I know a good deal about this; not saying I'm 100% correct on everything, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. AS tried running QX from LAX using a triangle route combined with FLG, and it didn't last long...but that may have been because they didn't have enough feed at LAX back then to make it work. UA seems to be making their Express CRJ flights work at PRC to both DEN & LAX.

    In short, it's weird. To me anyway.


    I’ve flown PHX-PRC on Mesa many times in the 90s and early 2000s when it was America West Express on Beech 1900s. You are correct and there is practically no local demand for the flight, but there are several other factors that would make the argument for a spoke from PHX challenging in today’s landscape:

    - The Beech 1900 flights on PHX-PRC were combined with IGM or PGA, which helped spread out the costs with the other stations.

    - There is ample and frequent ground transportation to PHX that competes for what demand of connecting traffic is there.

    - There is no ideal aircraft in the AA Eagle fleet that could economically carry out the mission on the 87 mile segment. Any CRJ would be to big or inefficient for that route. Also, the closer a spoke is to a hub, the more vulnerable it becomes to delays and misconnects should there be weather or ATC issues.

    - It was Skywest that was awarded the EAS subsidy to PRC, not UA. DEN (and LAX to a lesser extent) not only has decent local demand from PRC, but also connects to markets that AA could have done via PHX.

    This may seem a little far-fetched, but Instead of PHX-PRC, AA may find that there would be more network value to have a 1x daily DFW-PRC with a CRJ-700, which would then open up even more possible connections than what DEN, LAX or PHX would be able to offer.


    For argument sake PHX-FLG is only 119 miles (varies from 4-6 daily flights) compared to PHX-PRC at 87, not much difference if driving or flying.

    I think AA could add 2 daily to PHX and 1 daily to DFW
     
    onwFan
    Posts: 474
    Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:57 am

    dcajet wrote:
    It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

    If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

    https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

    On a side note, BSB will still be served 1x daily from both MIA and MCO by G3 (in addition to 1x daily FOR-MIA/MCO) in partnership with AA. I expect more secondary Brazil to MIA from G3/AA when we are past this crisis and B737MAX flies again (at least during times when the Brazilian economy is favorable)...
     
    jmc1975
    Posts: 3065
    Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:07 am

    BA744PHX wrote:
    jmc1975 wrote:
    cathay747 wrote:

    I've never been able to understand why PHX-PRC doesn't seem to work as a spoke from the PHX hub. HP ran it for a while at least with their regional arm, but I don't think US ever did, and AA never has since the merger with US. I know PHX-PRC won't work local-market alone as it's been tried by Great Lakes; even with EAS subsidy they couldn't charge a fare low enough to compete with the van service (hell, even with limo service!). But as a spoke from the hub? I don't understand the problem. PRC has grown so much over the decades, largely with Calif. transplants, you'd think there would be plenty of traffic to support at least 2 daily connections from PHX. My mom has lived there for 25+ years, so I know a good deal about this; not saying I'm 100% correct on everything, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. AS tried running QX from LAX using a triangle route combined with FLG, and it didn't last long...but that may have been because they didn't have enough feed at LAX back then to make it work. UA seems to be making their Express CRJ flights work at PRC to both DEN & LAX.

    In short, it's weird. To me anyway.


    I’ve flown PHX-PRC on Mesa many times in the 90s and early 2000s when it was America West Express on Beech 1900s. You are correct and there is practically no local demand for the flight, but there are several other factors that would make the argument for a spoke from PHX challenging in today’s landscape:

    - The Beech 1900 flights on PHX-PRC were combined with IGM or PGA, which helped spread out the costs with the other stations.

    - There is ample and frequent ground transportation to PHX that competes for what demand of connecting traffic is there.

    - There is no ideal aircraft in the AA Eagle fleet that could economically carry out the mission on the 87 mile segment. Any CRJ would be to big or inefficient for that route. Also, the closer a spoke is to a hub, the more vulnerable it becomes to delays and misconnects should there be weather or ATC issues.

    - It was Skywest that was awarded the EAS subsidy to PRC, not UA. DEN (and LAX to a lesser extent) not only has decent local demand from PRC, but also connects to markets that AA could have done via PHX.

    This may seem a little far-fetched, but Instead of PHX-PRC, AA may find that there would be more network value to have a 1x daily DFW-PRC with a CRJ-700, which would then open up even more possible connections than what DEN, LAX or PHX would be able to offer.


    For argument sake PHX-FLG is only 119 miles (varies from 4-6 daily flights) compared to PHX-PRC at 87, not much difference if driving or flying.

    I think AA could add 2 daily to PHX and 1 daily to DFW


    Although I think that is a bit optimistic, you are speaking my language. I would love nothing more than to see AA serve PRC and to also utilize the new terminal that's about to open.

    Also regarding an earlier post, SGU and PRC have many similarities in that they are similar in size, had booming pre-Covid local economies; and just as PRC is a drive market from PHX, SGU is a drive market from LAS. That said, SGU has a slight advantage over PRC for the following reasons:

    - SGU is the Corporate HQ for Skywest
    - SGU is the gateway to Bryce, Zion and the rest of southern Utah; the Grand Canyon. Sedona and most of northern Arizona are better accessed via FLG than PRC
    .......
     
    MAH4546
    Posts: 26254
    Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:25 am

    dcajet wrote:
    It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

    If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

    https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/


    No they are not. It’s not operating in winter 2020 but will return. And so will a lot of “cancelled” markets like Miami-Brasilia when travel picks up, whenever that is.
    a.
     
    HNLSLCPDX
    Posts: 228
    Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:35 am

    Always thought SGU, SAF, FLG, PRC, were similar sized airports and similar with the type of passengers that use those airports.
     
    dcajet
    Posts: 4708
    Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:58 am

    MAH4546 wrote:
    dcajet wrote:
    It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

    If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

    https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/


    No they are not. It’s not operating in winter 2020 but will return. And so will a lot of “cancelled” markets like Miami-Brasilia when travel picks up, whenever that is.


    No crisis ever lasted forever. If and when travel picks up they may return. But unlike some routes that have been suspended for the 2020/21 winter but have a restart date for the 2021 summer schedule, these two have no foreseeable resumption date, same as with LAX-GRU or LAX-EZE. We could be looking at a few years out before that is the case. Thus, cancellation/termination of service seems the appropriate term to use.
    Keep calm and wash your hands.
     
    dcajet
    Posts: 4708
    Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

    Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

    Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:39 am

    usflyer msp wrote:
    dcajet wrote:
    It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

    If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

    https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/


    AA announced they were not operating JFK-GIG in Winter 2020 back in July. As of now, they are still planning on bringing it back in Winter 2021.

    https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/

    I believe DL has permanently cancelled JFK-GIG.


    The indefinite suspension of JFK-GIG was uploaded this weekend, so it supersedes the previous announcement of service resumption. There are no longer flights to GIG from JFK loaded for the northern Summer 2021 schedule. They are now offering service to GIG via MIA on their own metal or via GRU in conjunction with GOL.
    Keep calm and wash your hands.

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