Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
usairways85
Posts: 4223
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:05 pm

AA Cargo October schedule:
https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/Octob ... hedule.pdf

Not too many changes.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:13 pm

AA's October widebody schedule: https://www.aacargo.com/about/keepmoving.html

Some notes:

- 787-8 service to Miami begins October 11 with PHL-MIA then DFW-MIA 787-9 from October 25
- MIA-ORD sees the 777-300ER from Oct 25
- DFW-EZE/GRU resume October 24 with passenger flights
- DFW-OGG resumes Oct. 1 (pretty sure this was moved forward from October 25)
- JFK-GRU dropped for October (operating in Sept.)
- DFW-ICN sees the 772 from Oct. 1 (been a few years since the route's seen the 772)

- Passenger DFW-PVG will stop in ICN and run 2x weekly instead of daily.

- LHR-PHL/CLT/RDU/BOS/PHX, PHL-MAD not showing the October schedule

Note that the majority of these are not reflected on aa.com. Guess we'll see some sort of update from AA in the coming days or they'll push everything through the bookings in the coming weekends, or this widebody schedule isn't correctly updated.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:29 pm

Ishrion wrote:
AA's October widebody schedule: https://www.aacargo.com/about/keepmoving.html

Some notes:

- 787-8 service to Miami begins October 11 with PHL-MIA then DFW-MIA 787-9 from October 25
- MIA-ORD sees the 777-300ER from Oct 25
- DFW-EZE/GRU resume October 24 with passenger flights
- DFW-OGG resumes Oct. 1 (pretty sure this was moved forward from October 25)
- JFK-GRU dropped for October (operating in Sept.)
- DFW-ICN sees the 772 from Oct. 1 (been a few years since the route's seen the 772)

- Passenger DFW-PVG will stop in ICN and run 2x weekly instead of daily.

- LHR-PHL/CLT/RDU/BOS/PHX, PHL-MAD not showing the October schedule

Note that the majority of these are not reflected on aa.com. Guess we'll see some sort of update from AA in the coming days or they'll push everything through the bookings in the coming weekends, or this widebody schedule isn't correctly updated.


Surprised that the LHR flights are not starting from CLT/PHL given that Europe flights can arrive at any airport now and the latter will be AA's Europe hub. As for the Dallas-Shanghai flights, I was wondering if the Chinese government allowed airlines to add more frequencies between the US and China. Because as far as I am concerned the 8 frequencies permitted are taken by both Delta and United.
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 495
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:43 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA's October widebody schedule: https://www.aacargo.com/about/keepmoving.html

Some notes:

- 787-8 service to Miami begins October 11 with PHL-MIA then DFW-MIA 787-9 from October 25
- MIA-ORD sees the 777-300ER from Oct 25
- DFW-EZE/GRU resume October 24 with passenger flights
- DFW-OGG resumes Oct. 1 (pretty sure this was moved forward from October 25)
- JFK-GRU dropped for October (operating in Sept.)
- DFW-ICN sees the 772 from Oct. 1 (been a few years since the route's seen the 772)

- Passenger DFW-PVG will stop in ICN and run 2x weekly instead of daily.

- LHR-PHL/CLT/RDU/BOS/PHX, PHL-MAD not showing the October schedule

Note that the majority of these are not reflected on aa.com. Guess we'll see some sort of update from AA in the coming days or they'll push everything through the bookings in the coming weekends, or this widebody schedule isn't correctly updated.


Surprised that the LHR flights are not starting from CLT/PHL given that Europe flights can arrive at any airport now and the latter will be AA's Europe hub. As for the Dallas-Shanghai flights, I was wondering if the Chinese government allowed airlines to add more frequencies between the US and China. Because as far as I am concerned the 8 frequencies permitted are taken by both Delta and United.


Regarding your comment on DFW-PVG -- Does it matter that these are cargo only?
 
DMPHL
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:33 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:14 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Surprised that the LHR flights are not starting from CLT/PHL given that Europe flights can arrive at any airport now and the latter will be AA's Europe hub. As for the Dallas-Shanghai flights, I was wondering if the Chinese government allowed airlines to add more frequencies between the US and China. Because as far as I am concerned the 8 frequencies permitted are taken by both Delta and United.


Yea but I think the economics may still just not work out. With higher-yielding leisure travel and business travel down significantly to places like Europe, both the local PHL passenger base and the domestic feed necessary to make a hub work economically maybe just aren't there at the moment.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5956
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:16 pm

“One of the things we are looking at is whether we should use some of those widebodies to just do things like fly New York to Miami and Chicago to Miami.”
https://viewfromthewing.com/four-princi ... is-winter/
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:11 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
“One of the things we are looking at is whether we should use some of those widebodies to just do things like fly New York to Miami and Chicago to Miami.”
https://viewfromthewing.com/four-princi ... is-winter/


ORD-MIA is 777-300ER, PHL-MIA is 787-8, and LAX-MIA is 777-300ER (up from 772 in September) in October according to AA's latest widebody schedule.

Also:

They want to return to China quickly, saying they “are looking at trying to bring the Dallas Fort-Worth to Shanghai flight back…If we were a little further ahead in our integration with Alaska we’d be looking at trying to advance the Seattle – Shanghai flight.”


Sounds like DFW-PVG is being accelerated from October 24 to October 9.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4862
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:09 pm

American Airlines has become the first airline authorized by Argentina's ANAC to resume daily MIA-EZE service. Effective Oct. 7. Presently the airline is only operating MIA-EZE 2x w on a special waiver authority. AA907/08 will operate with the 77E.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:29 pm

Bunch of AA changes over the weekend for passenger long-haul flights:

- LHR-LAX/PHL/CLT/BOS/RDU/PHX resumption delayed from October 24 to March 27, 2021
- DFW-PVG delayed to November 4
- PHL-MAD, CLT-MUC delayed from October 24 to March 27
- DFW-HKG delayed from October 24 to December 17
- DFW-DUB that was shifted from PHL for the winter has been cancelled.
- DFW-AMS for the winter (shifted from PHL) reduced from 1x daily to 3x weekly.
- DFW-LHR will maintain 1x daily throughout the winter, not 3-4x daily.
- ORD-LHR upgauges to 777-300ER from October 25.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:55 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Bunch of AA changes over the weekend for passenger long-haul flights:

- LHR-LAX/PHL/CLT/BOS/RDU/PHX resumption delayed from October 24 to March 27, 2021
- DFW-PVG delayed to November 4
- PHL-MAD, CLT-MUC delayed from October 24 to March 27
- DFW-HKG delayed from October 24 to December 17
- DFW-DUB that was shifted from PHL for the winter has been cancelled.
- DFW-AMS for the winter (shifted from PHL) reduced from 1x daily to 3x weekly.
- DFW-LHR will maintain 1x daily throughout the winter, not 3-4x daily.
- ORD-LHR upgauges to 777-300ER from October 25.


All of the European flight suspensions must be because of the second wave going on over there. What long haul international flights is AA planning to operate this winter (including South America)?
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:06 am

Two things: does anyone know why AA doesn’t fly PHX-PRC? And does anyone know how the PHX-SGU flight is doing?
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:09 am

Ishrion wrote:
Bunch of AA changes over the weekend for passenger long-haul flights:

- LHR-LAX/PHL/CLT/BOS/RDU/PHX resumption delayed from October 24 to March 27, 2021
- DFW-PVG delayed to November 4
- PHL-MAD, CLT-MUC delayed from October 24 to March 27
- DFW-HKG delayed from October 24 to December 17
- DFW-DUB that was shifted from PHL for the winter has been cancelled.
- DFW-AMS for the winter (shifted from PHL) reduced from 1x daily to 3x weekly.
- DFW-LHR will maintain 1x daily throughout the winter, not 3-4x daily.
- ORD-LHR upgauges to 777-300ER from October 25.


Sorry, not sure how I missed it - CLT-LHR is still going for the winter at 3x weekly.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/
 
aviator2000
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 11:19 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:06 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Bunch of AA changes over the weekend for passenger long-haul flights:

- LHR-LAX/PHL/CLT/BOS/RDU/PHX resumption delayed from October 24 to March 27, 2021
- DFW-PVG delayed to November 4
- PHL-MAD, CLT-MUC delayed from October 24 to March 27
- DFW-HKG delayed from October 24 to December 17
- DFW-DUB that was shifted from PHL for the winter has been cancelled.
- DFW-AMS for the winter (shifted from PHL) reduced from 1x daily to 3x weekly.
- DFW-LHR will maintain 1x daily throughout the winter, not 3-4x daily.
- ORD-LHR upgauges to 777-300ER from October 25.

MIA-BCN also cancelled for the winter.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3267
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:15 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Two things: does anyone know why AA doesn’t fly PHX-PRC? And does anyone know how the PHX-SGU flight is doing?


I've done SGU-PHX (or reverse) 3x since Covid and every flight is at or near 100% full, it was actually the first full flight I had in my post-covid travels.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1551
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:20 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Two things: does anyone know why AA doesn’t fly PHX-PRC? And does anyone know how the PHX-SGU flight is doing?


I've never been able to understand why PHX-PRC doesn't seem to work as a spoke from the PHX hub. HP ran it for a while at least with their regional arm, but I don't think US ever did, and AA never has since the merger with US. I know PHX-PRC won't work local-market alone as it's been tried by Great Lakes; even with EAS subsidy they couldn't charge a fare low enough to compete with the van service (hell, even with limo service!). But as a spoke from the hub? I don't understand the problem. PRC has grown so much over the decades, largely with Calif. transplants, you'd think there would be plenty of traffic to support at least 2 daily connections from PHX. My mom has lived there for 25+ years, so I know a good deal about this; not saying I'm 100% correct on everything, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. AS tried running QX from LAX using a triangle route combined with FLG, and it didn't last long...but that may have been because they didn't have enough feed at LAX back then to make it work. UA seems to be making their Express CRJ flights work at PRC to both DEN & LAX.

In short, it's weird. To me anyway.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
chonetsao
Posts: 879
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:48 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
All of the European flight suspensions must be because of the second wave going on over there. What long haul international flights is AA planning to operate this winter (including South America)?


It also indicates that AA don't think the US travel ban will get lifted any time soon.

Have a look at the AA Cargo document linked above in post 1971, it has all the information for the month of October. I would like to think the routes would be much the same or even less for November.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:00 pm

rjbesikof wrote:

What long haul international flights is AA planning to operate this winter (including South America)?


For the period October 24, 2020 to March 26, 2021 (includes staggered resumptions):

- DFW-PVG/HKG/NRT/HND/ICN/AMS/FRA/LHR/CDG/MAD/GRU/EZE
- CLT-LHR
- LAX-HND/SYD
- ORD-LHR
- MIA-LHR/EZE/MVD/GIG/GRU/SCL
- JFK-LHR/EZE/GRU

Might be missing some.

There's also several shorter flights to South America such as DFW-BOG, MIA-BAQ/CLO/GYE/UIO, and more.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:41 pm

Ishrion wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:

What long haul international flights is AA planning to operate this winter (including South America)?


For the period October 24, 2020 to March 26, 2021 (includes staggered resumptions):

- DFW-PVG/HKG/NRT/HND/ICN/AMS/FRA/LHR/CDG/MAD/GRU/EZE
- CLT-LHR
- LAX-HND/SYD
- ORD-LHR
- MIA-LHR/EZE/MVD/GIG/GRU/SCL
- JFK-LHR/EZE/GRU

Might be missing some.

There's also several shorter flights to South America such as DFW-BOG, MIA-BAQ/CLO/GYE/UIO, and more.


Thanks Ishrion,
Looks like their focus for NW20 is South America.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2809
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:07 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
I've done SGU-PHX (or reverse) 3x since Covid and every flight is at or near 100% full, it was actually the first full flight I had in my post-covid travels.


Because of a crew base and Skywest corporate HQ in SGU, I highly doubt your flights were full of revenue travellers. There's probably a good number of deadheading crew, company business travel, and non-revs in that particular market.
A300/A310/A319/A320/A321/A332/A333 / 707/712/727/732/733/734/735/738/739/752/753
/762/763/764/772/788/789/DC8/DC9-10/30/40/50/MD81/83/87/88/90/L1011-/250/500/CRJ200/440 /700/900/EMB135/140/145/170/175/190/328Jet/F70/SF3/BE1/J31
 
User avatar
BA744PHX
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:20 pm

toltommy wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
I've done SGU-PHX (or reverse) 3x since Covid and every flight is at or near 100% full, it was actually the first full flight I had in my post-covid travels.


Because of a crew base and Skywest corporate HQ in SGU, I highly doubt your flights were full of revenue travellers. There's probably a good number of deadheading crew, company business travel, and non-revs in that particular market.


PHX-SGU was running 3 day pre covid, I doubt SGU would have many if any deadheading crew due to the Skywest HQ
 
dcajet
Posts: 4862
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:28 am

It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3100
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:04 am

cathay747 wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Two things: does anyone know why AA doesn’t fly PHX-PRC? And does anyone know how the PHX-SGU flight is doing?


I've never been able to understand why PHX-PRC doesn't seem to work as a spoke from the PHX hub. HP ran it for a while at least with their regional arm, but I don't think US ever did, and AA never has since the merger with US. I know PHX-PRC won't work local-market alone as it's been tried by Great Lakes; even with EAS subsidy they couldn't charge a fare low enough to compete with the van service (hell, even with limo service!). But as a spoke from the hub? I don't understand the problem. PRC has grown so much over the decades, largely with Calif. transplants, you'd think there would be plenty of traffic to support at least 2 daily connections from PHX. My mom has lived there for 25+ years, so I know a good deal about this; not saying I'm 100% correct on everything, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. AS tried running QX from LAX using a triangle route combined with FLG, and it didn't last long...but that may have been because they didn't have enough feed at LAX back then to make it work. UA seems to be making their Express CRJ flights work at PRC to both DEN & LAX.

In short, it's weird. To me anyway.


I’ve flown PHX-PRC on Mesa many times in the 90s and early 2000s when it was America West Express on Beech 1900s. You are correct and there is practically no local demand for the flight, but there are several other factors that would make the argument for a spoke from PHX challenging in today’s landscape:

- The Beech 1900 flights on PHX-PRC were combined with IGM or PGA, which helped spread out the costs with the other stations.

- There is ample and frequent ground transportation to PHX that competes for what demand of connecting traffic is there.

- There is no ideal aircraft in the AA Eagle fleet that could economically carry out the mission on the 87 mile segment. Any CRJ would be to big or inefficient for that route. Also, the closer a spoke is to a hub, the more vulnerable it becomes to delays and misconnects should there be weather or ATC issues.

- It was Skywest that was awarded the EAS subsidy to PRC, not UA. DEN (and LAX to a lesser extent) not only has decent local demand from PRC, but also connects to markets that AA could have done via PHX.

This may seem a little far-fetched, but Instead of PHX-PRC, AA may find that there would be more network value to have a 1x daily DFW-PRC with a CRJ-700, which would then open up even more possible connections than what DEN, LAX or PHX would be able to offer.
.......
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4043
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:05 am

dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/


AA announced they were not operating JFK-GIG in Winter 2020 back in July. As of now, they are still planning on bringing it back in Winter 2021.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/

I believe DL has permanently cancelled JFK-GIG.
 
User avatar
BA744PHX
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:42 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:27 am

jmc1975 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Two things: does anyone know why AA doesn’t fly PHX-PRC? And does anyone know how the PHX-SGU flight is doing?


I've never been able to understand why PHX-PRC doesn't seem to work as a spoke from the PHX hub. HP ran it for a while at least with their regional arm, but I don't think US ever did, and AA never has since the merger with US. I know PHX-PRC won't work local-market alone as it's been tried by Great Lakes; even with EAS subsidy they couldn't charge a fare low enough to compete with the van service (hell, even with limo service!). But as a spoke from the hub? I don't understand the problem. PRC has grown so much over the decades, largely with Calif. transplants, you'd think there would be plenty of traffic to support at least 2 daily connections from PHX. My mom has lived there for 25+ years, so I know a good deal about this; not saying I'm 100% correct on everything, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. AS tried running QX from LAX using a triangle route combined with FLG, and it didn't last long...but that may have been because they didn't have enough feed at LAX back then to make it work. UA seems to be making their Express CRJ flights work at PRC to both DEN & LAX.

In short, it's weird. To me anyway.


I’ve flown PHX-PRC on Mesa many times in the 90s and early 2000s when it was America West Express on Beech 1900s. You are correct and there is practically no local demand for the flight, but there are several other factors that would make the argument for a spoke from PHX challenging in today’s landscape:

- The Beech 1900 flights on PHX-PRC were combined with IGM or PGA, which helped spread out the costs with the other stations.

- There is ample and frequent ground transportation to PHX that competes for what demand of connecting traffic is there.

- There is no ideal aircraft in the AA Eagle fleet that could economically carry out the mission on the 87 mile segment. Any CRJ would be to big or inefficient for that route. Also, the closer a spoke is to a hub, the more vulnerable it becomes to delays and misconnects should there be weather or ATC issues.

- It was Skywest that was awarded the EAS subsidy to PRC, not UA. DEN (and LAX to a lesser extent) not only has decent local demand from PRC, but also connects to markets that AA could have done via PHX.

This may seem a little far-fetched, but Instead of PHX-PRC, AA may find that there would be more network value to have a 1x daily DFW-PRC with a CRJ-700, which would then open up even more possible connections than what DEN, LAX or PHX would be able to offer.


For argument sake PHX-FLG is only 119 miles (varies from 4-6 daily flights) compared to PHX-PRC at 87, not much difference if driving or flying.

I think AA could add 2 daily to PHX and 1 daily to DFW
 
onwFan
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:57 am

dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

On a side note, BSB will still be served 1x daily from both MIA and MCO by G3 (in addition to 1x daily FOR-MIA/MCO) in partnership with AA. I expect more secondary Brazil to MIA from G3/AA when we are past this crisis and B737MAX flies again (at least during times when the Brazilian economy is favorable)...
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3100
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:07 am

BA744PHX wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:

I've never been able to understand why PHX-PRC doesn't seem to work as a spoke from the PHX hub. HP ran it for a while at least with their regional arm, but I don't think US ever did, and AA never has since the merger with US. I know PHX-PRC won't work local-market alone as it's been tried by Great Lakes; even with EAS subsidy they couldn't charge a fare low enough to compete with the van service (hell, even with limo service!). But as a spoke from the hub? I don't understand the problem. PRC has grown so much over the decades, largely with Calif. transplants, you'd think there would be plenty of traffic to support at least 2 daily connections from PHX. My mom has lived there for 25+ years, so I know a good deal about this; not saying I'm 100% correct on everything, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. AS tried running QX from LAX using a triangle route combined with FLG, and it didn't last long...but that may have been because they didn't have enough feed at LAX back then to make it work. UA seems to be making their Express CRJ flights work at PRC to both DEN & LAX.

In short, it's weird. To me anyway.


I’ve flown PHX-PRC on Mesa many times in the 90s and early 2000s when it was America West Express on Beech 1900s. You are correct and there is practically no local demand for the flight, but there are several other factors that would make the argument for a spoke from PHX challenging in today’s landscape:

- The Beech 1900 flights on PHX-PRC were combined with IGM or PGA, which helped spread out the costs with the other stations.

- There is ample and frequent ground transportation to PHX that competes for what demand of connecting traffic is there.

- There is no ideal aircraft in the AA Eagle fleet that could economically carry out the mission on the 87 mile segment. Any CRJ would be to big or inefficient for that route. Also, the closer a spoke is to a hub, the more vulnerable it becomes to delays and misconnects should there be weather or ATC issues.

- It was Skywest that was awarded the EAS subsidy to PRC, not UA. DEN (and LAX to a lesser extent) not only has decent local demand from PRC, but also connects to markets that AA could have done via PHX.

This may seem a little far-fetched, but Instead of PHX-PRC, AA may find that there would be more network value to have a 1x daily DFW-PRC with a CRJ-700, which would then open up even more possible connections than what DEN, LAX or PHX would be able to offer.


For argument sake PHX-FLG is only 119 miles (varies from 4-6 daily flights) compared to PHX-PRC at 87, not much difference if driving or flying.

I think AA could add 2 daily to PHX and 1 daily to DFW


Although I think that is a bit optimistic, you are speaking my language. I would love nothing more than to see AA serve PRC and to also utilize the new terminal that's about to open.

Also regarding an earlier post, SGU and PRC have many similarities in that they are similar in size, had booming pre-Covid local economies; and just as PRC is a drive market from PHX, SGU is a drive market from LAS. That said, SGU has a slight advantage over PRC for the following reasons:

- SGU is the Corporate HQ for Skywest
- SGU is the gateway to Bryce, Zion and the rest of southern Utah; the Grand Canyon. Sedona and most of northern Arizona are better accessed via FLG than PRC
.......
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26524
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:25 am

dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/


No they are not. It’s not operating in winter 2020 but will return. And so will a lot of “cancelled” markets like Miami-Brasilia when travel picks up, whenever that is.
a.
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:35 am

Always thought SGU, SAF, FLG, PRC, were similar sized airports and similar with the type of passengers that use those airports.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4862
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:58 am

MAH4546 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/


No they are not. It’s not operating in winter 2020 but will return. And so will a lot of “cancelled” markets like Miami-Brasilia when travel picks up, whenever that is.


No crisis ever lasted forever. If and when travel picks up they may return. But unlike some routes that have been suspended for the 2020/21 winter but have a restart date for the 2021 summer schedule, these two have no foreseeable resumption date, same as with LAX-GRU or LAX-EZE. We could be looking at a few years out before that is the case. Thus, cancellation/termination of service seems the appropriate term to use.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4862
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:39 am

usflyer msp wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/


AA announced they were not operating JFK-GIG in Winter 2020 back in July. As of now, they are still planning on bringing it back in Winter 2021.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/

I believe DL has permanently cancelled JFK-GIG.


The indefinite suspension of JFK-GIG was uploaded this weekend, so it supersedes the previous announcement of service resumption. There are no longer flights to GIG from JFK loaded for the northern Summer 2021 schedule. They are now offering service to GIG via MIA on their own metal or via GRU in conjunction with GOL.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1293
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:46 am

dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:17 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


GIG is overwhelmingly a leisure destination and given the pandemic, Brazil (and the US's) high rate of infection, this is not surprising at all. GIG has been served from JFK on and off for years, and most recently, seasonally, even by Delta. The market is not there now. There is no point in operating it.
 
onwFan
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:33 pm

dcajet wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/


AA announced they were not operating JFK-GIG in Winter 2020 back in July. As of now, they are still planning on bringing it back in Winter 2021.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/

I believe DL has permanently cancelled JFK-GIG.


The indefinite suspension of JFK-GIG was uploaded this weekend, so it supersedes the previous announcement of service resumption. There are no longer flights to GIG from JFK loaded for the northern Summer 2021 schedule. They are now offering service to GIG via MIA on their own metal or via GRU in conjunction with GOL.

JFK-GIG was anyway not scheduled to operate in Northern S21. It is a winter seasonal route (and that too, only a small part of the season - just Dec-Feb or something like that by both AA and DL). Even as part of the B6/AA partnership resumption was only mentioned for W21:

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4043
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:18 pm

onwFan wrote:
dcajet wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

AA announced they were not operating JFK-GIG in Winter 2020 back in July. As of now, they are still planning on bringing it back in Winter 2021.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/

I believe DL has permanently cancelled JFK-GIG.


The indefinite suspension of JFK-GIG was uploaded this weekend, so it supersedes the previous announcement of service resumption. There are no longer flights to GIG from JFK loaded for the northern Summer 2021 schedule. They are now offering service to GIG via MIA on their own metal or via GRU in conjunction with GOL.

JFK-GIG was anyway not scheduled to operate in Northern S21. It is a winter seasonal route (and that too, only a small part of the season - just Dec-Feb or something like that by both AA and DL). Even as part of the B6/AA partnership resumption was only mentioned for W21:

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx


JFK-GIG operates Dec to Mar, just enough to cover Christmas, the summer school holiday in Brazil and Carnival. DL's flight ran a similar schedule but it was less popular because GIG-JFK was daytime.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:32 pm

AA's updated widebody/cargo schedule shows it operating a daily 787-9 on CLT-MIA starting October 7 which should replace the 772.

This may be an error or more changes are coming. AA's bookings do not reflect this at the moment.

https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/Octob ... hedule.pdf
 
Detroit313
Posts: 634
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:33 pm

Anything on Athens and Tel Aviv from JFK yet?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1745
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:33 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Anything on Athens and Tel Aviv from JFK yet?


I’m gonna say neither launch.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:37 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Anything on Athens and Tel Aviv from JFK yet?


Likely still waiting on the DOT to approve the JetBlue partnership,
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:51 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


No, LAX-GRU has been axed.
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26524
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:56 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


No, LAX-GRU has been axed.
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/


While officially axed, LAXGRU is another one of those markets that will be ripe to return when traffic normalizes, whenever that is. MIAMXP, MIABSB, JFKGIG...those are massive locals that will come back at some point. Maybe somebody else jumps in first ahead of AA though.
a.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4043
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:08 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


No, LAX-GRU has been axed.
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/


While officially axed, LAXGRU is another one of those markets that will be ripe to return when traffic normalizes, whenever that is. MIAMXP, MIABSB, JFKGIG...those are massive locals that will come back at some point. Maybe somebody else jumps in first ahead of AA though.


At least in the case of BSB, Im not so sure. AA is codesharing on G3's MIA-BSB flight and that may be all the market needs. Except for the lack of business class, GOL's 737's are not markedly worse the 78M's AA had planned on flying MIA-BSB.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26524
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:35 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:


While officially axed, LAXGRU is another one of those markets that will be ripe to return when traffic normalizes, whenever that is. MIAMXP, MIABSB, JFKGIG...those are massive locals that will come back at some point. Maybe somebody else jumps in first ahead of AA though.


At least in the case of BSB, Im not so sure. AA is codesharing on G3's MIA-BSB flight and that may be all the market needs. Except for the lack of business class, GOL's 737's are not markedly worse the 78M's AA had planned on flying MIA-BSB.


In normal times the O&D market is 120,000 annually on MIABSB. There's more market than a daily 738.
a.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4043
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:08 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

While officially axed, LAXGRU is another one of those markets that will be ripe to return when traffic normalizes, whenever that is. MIAMXP, MIABSB, JFKGIG...those are massive locals that will come back at some point. Maybe somebody else jumps in first ahead of AA though.


At least in the case of BSB, Im not so sure. AA is codesharing on G3's MIA-BSB flight and that may be all the market needs. Except for the lack of business class, GOL's 737's are not markedly worse the 78M's AA had planned on flying MIA-BSB.


In normal times the O&D market is 120,000 annually on MIABSB. There's more market than a daily 738.


True but the problem is that many people in BSB and other secondary deep SA destinations would rather connect to get their preferred double overnight schedule than fly a daytime nonstop in one direction.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4862
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:57 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


You are correct. American has pretty much dismantled long haul international flying out of LAX.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
wenders825
Posts: 389
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:29 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:38 pm

dcajet wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


You are correct. American has pretty much dismantled long haul international flying out of LAX.

2x LHR
2x HND
1x SYD
1x AKL
1x CHC (still planned)

not exactly. still a pretty decent schedule. would be shocked if HKG and GRU did not come back once the situation in both destinations improve
 
dcajet
Posts: 4862
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:04 pm

wenders825 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


You are correct. American has pretty much dismantled long haul international flying out of LAX.

2x LHR
2x HND
1x SYD
1x AKL
1x CHC (still planned)

not exactly. still a pretty decent schedule. would be shocked if HKG and GRU did not come back once the situation in both destinations improve


Dismantled may have been a strong word choice, I'll give you that. But the hair cut was significant:

Image

Source: Forbes
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26524
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:42 am

dcajet wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


You are correct. American has pretty much dismantled long haul international flying out of LAX.


No. It is the largest long haul airline at LAX even after the cuts which totaled four daily flights.
a.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26524
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:42 am

usflyer msp wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

At least in the case of BSB, Im not so sure. AA is codesharing on G3's MIA-BSB flight and that may be all the market needs. Except for the lack of business class, GOL's 737's are not markedly worse the 78M's AA had planned on flying MIA-BSB.


In normal times the O&D market is 120,000 annually on MIABSB. There's more market than a daily 738.


True but the problem is that many people in BSB and other secondary deep SA destinations would rather connect to get their preferred double overnight schedule than fly a daytime nonstop in one direction.


MIABSB has operated on a double redeye schedule, IIRC. AA will operate it as the market demands.
a.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3568
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:43 am

Did DFW-PVG just get pushed from November to January 1, 2021?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1745
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:38 am

PHL seems to be the big winner for the November schedule at least compared to October.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos