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Brickell305
Posts: 1101
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:46 am

dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2171
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:17 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


GIG is overwhelmingly a leisure destination and given the pandemic, Brazil (and the US's) high rate of infection, this is not surprising at all. GIG has been served from JFK on and off for years, and most recently, seasonally, even by Delta. The market is not there now. There is no point in operating it.
 
onwFan
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:33 pm

dcajet wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/


AA announced they were not operating JFK-GIG in Winter 2020 back in July. As of now, they are still planning on bringing it back in Winter 2021.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/

I believe DL has permanently cancelled JFK-GIG.


The indefinite suspension of JFK-GIG was uploaded this weekend, so it supersedes the previous announcement of service resumption. There are no longer flights to GIG from JFK loaded for the northern Summer 2021 schedule. They are now offering service to GIG via MIA on their own metal or via GRU in conjunction with GOL.

JFK-GIG was anyway not scheduled to operate in Northern S21. It is a winter seasonal route (and that too, only a small part of the season - just Dec-Feb or something like that by both AA and DL). Even as part of the B6/AA partnership resumption was only mentioned for W21:

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3895
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:18 pm

onwFan wrote:
dcajet wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

AA announced they were not operating JFK-GIG in Winter 2020 back in July. As of now, they are still planning on bringing it back in Winter 2021.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/

I believe DL has permanently cancelled JFK-GIG.


The indefinite suspension of JFK-GIG was uploaded this weekend, so it supersedes the previous announcement of service resumption. There are no longer flights to GIG from JFK loaded for the northern Summer 2021 schedule. They are now offering service to GIG via MIA on their own metal or via GRU in conjunction with GOL.

JFK-GIG was anyway not scheduled to operate in Northern S21. It is a winter seasonal route (and that too, only a small part of the season - just Dec-Feb or something like that by both AA and DL). Even as part of the B6/AA partnership resumption was only mentioned for W21:

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx


JFK-GIG operates Dec to Mar, just enough to cover Christmas, the summer school holiday in Brazil and Carnival. DL's flight ran a similar schedule but it was less popular because GIG-JFK was daytime.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3073
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:32 pm

AA's updated widebody/cargo schedule shows it operating a daily 787-9 on CLT-MIA starting October 7 which should replace the 772.

This may be an error or more changes are coming. AA's bookings do not reflect this at the moment.

https://www.aacargo.com/downloads/Octob ... hedule.pdf
 
Detroit313
Posts: 555
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:33 pm

Anything on Athens and Tel Aviv from JFK yet?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1316
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:33 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Anything on Athens and Tel Aviv from JFK yet?


I’m gonna say neither launch.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3073
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:37 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Anything on Athens and Tel Aviv from JFK yet?


Likely still waiting on the DOT to approve the JetBlue partnership,
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:51 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


No, LAX-GRU has been axed.
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26289
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:56 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


No, LAX-GRU has been axed.
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/


While officially axed, LAXGRU is another one of those markets that will be ripe to return when traffic normalizes, whenever that is. MIAMXP, MIABSB, JFKGIG...those are massive locals that will come back at some point. Maybe somebody else jumps in first ahead of AA though.
a.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3895
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:08 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


No, LAX-GRU has been axed.
https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... PS-DIS-07/


While officially axed, LAXGRU is another one of those markets that will be ripe to return when traffic normalizes, whenever that is. MIAMXP, MIABSB, JFKGIG...those are massive locals that will come back at some point. Maybe somebody else jumps in first ahead of AA though.


At least in the case of BSB, Im not so sure. AA is codesharing on G3's MIA-BSB flight and that may be all the market needs. Except for the lack of business class, GOL's 737's are not markedly worse the 78M's AA had planned on flying MIA-BSB.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26289
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:35 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:


While officially axed, LAXGRU is another one of those markets that will be ripe to return when traffic normalizes, whenever that is. MIAMXP, MIABSB, JFKGIG...those are massive locals that will come back at some point. Maybe somebody else jumps in first ahead of AA though.


At least in the case of BSB, Im not so sure. AA is codesharing on G3's MIA-BSB flight and that may be all the market needs. Except for the lack of business class, GOL's 737's are not markedly worse the 78M's AA had planned on flying MIA-BSB.


In normal times the O&D market is 120,000 annually on MIABSB. There's more market than a daily 738.
a.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3895
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:08 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

While officially axed, LAXGRU is another one of those markets that will be ripe to return when traffic normalizes, whenever that is. MIAMXP, MIABSB, JFKGIG...those are massive locals that will come back at some point. Maybe somebody else jumps in first ahead of AA though.


At least in the case of BSB, Im not so sure. AA is codesharing on G3's MIA-BSB flight and that may be all the market needs. Except for the lack of business class, GOL's 737's are not markedly worse the 78M's AA had planned on flying MIA-BSB.


In normal times the O&D market is 120,000 annually on MIABSB. There's more market than a daily 738.


True but the problem is that many people in BSB and other secondary deep SA destinations would rather connect to get their preferred double overnight schedule than fly a daytime nonstop in one direction.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4733
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:57 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


You are correct. American has pretty much dismantled long haul international flying out of LAX.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
wenders825
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:29 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:38 pm

dcajet wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


You are correct. American has pretty much dismantled long haul international flying out of LAX.

2x LHR
2x HND
1x SYD
1x AKL
1x CHC (still planned)

not exactly. still a pretty decent schedule. would be shocked if HKG and GRU did not come back once the situation in both destinations improve
 
dcajet
Posts: 4733
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:04 pm

wenders825 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


You are correct. American has pretty much dismantled long haul international flying out of LAX.

2x LHR
2x HND
1x SYD
1x AKL
1x CHC (still planned)

not exactly. still a pretty decent schedule. would be shocked if HKG and GRU did not come back once the situation in both destinations improve


Dismantled may have been a strong word choice, I'll give you that. But the hair cut was significant:

Image

Source: Forbes
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26289
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:42 am

dcajet wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
It looks like AA is cancelling for good the JFK-GIG route, which was slated for return Dec. 17th. Second route to Brazil AA cancels, having previously announced the cancellation of MIA-BSB.

If DL does not resume its own JFK-GIG flights, Rio de Janeiro will be left w/o a direct service to NYC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep20/

Isn’t it the third Brazil route AA had canceled? Is LAX-GRU scheduled to return?


You are correct. American has pretty much dismantled long haul international flying out of LAX.


No. It is the largest long haul airline at LAX even after the cuts which totaled four daily flights.
a.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26289
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:42 am

usflyer msp wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

At least in the case of BSB, Im not so sure. AA is codesharing on G3's MIA-BSB flight and that may be all the market needs. Except for the lack of business class, GOL's 737's are not markedly worse the 78M's AA had planned on flying MIA-BSB.


In normal times the O&D market is 120,000 annually on MIABSB. There's more market than a daily 738.


True but the problem is that many people in BSB and other secondary deep SA destinations would rather connect to get their preferred double overnight schedule than fly a daytime nonstop in one direction.


MIABSB has operated on a double redeye schedule, IIRC. AA will operate it as the market demands.
a.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3073
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:43 am

Did DFW-PVG just get pushed from November to January 1, 2021?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1316
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:38 am

PHL seems to be the big winner for the November schedule at least compared to October.
 
panamair
Posts: 4348
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:49 am

Just noticed that JFK-LAX has been reduced to 2x daily and JFK-SFO to 1x daily in November (including Thanksgiving). While SFO remains the A321T, LAX will be using the 772, so total capacity is about the same or more than these past few months with the A321T; this also means no Flagship First on JFK-LAX at least for November
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8540
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:58 am

Ishrion wrote:
Did DFW-PVG just get pushed from November to January 1, 2021?


It does look that way in ITA Matrix. AA 127 starts daily 1/1/21.
 
aerace
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:19 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
PHL seems to be the big winner for the November schedule at least compared to October.


Capacity add or destinations return? Or mix of both?
 
onwFan
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:26 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Did DFW-PVG just get pushed from November to January 1, 2021?

Isn’t this route contingent on relaxation of the current restriction on # of flights allowed between US & China (currently capped at 8 weekly, all of which are being used)?
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3895
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:28 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
PHL seems to be the big winner for the November schedule at least compared to October.


ORD seems to be the worst off. I'm noticing several destinations like BUF, ROC, ALB, PVD being cut down to 1x daily.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:55 pm

Will be interesting to see the comparisons on the OAG report on Tuesday. I thought UA may have cut too much for November (pretty status quo from October), but now it’s looking like AA did about the same, maybe even more...but will have to see.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:39 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Did DFW-PVG just get pushed from November to January 1, 2021?


It does look that way in ITA Matrix. AA 127 starts daily 1/1/21.


I think AA will do the same as DL/UA in that the PVG aircraft will stop in Seoul Incheon to change crews. That could be why there is no nonstop from DFW-PVG until the new year. Now AA will have to get the Chinese government to allow for extra frequencies on the US-China routes.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3073
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:35 pm

AA loaded some Hawaii changes:

- PHX-HNL from November 18 swapped from 787-9 to 777-200ER. It's currently set to switch to the 787-9 on December 1. (December schedule not finalized)
- ORD-HNL resumes on November 20 using the 777-200ER. Then it switches to the 787-9 from December 1. (December schedule not finalized)
- 1x daily DFW-HNL upgauges to 777-300ER from November 4.
- The second daily DFW-HNL returns on November 18 on the 772. The other daily 777-300ER continues through November.

Additionally:
- 2 of 4 MIA-JFK flights are on the 777-200ER from November 4.
 
FARmd90
Posts: 382
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:42 pm

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... n-changes/

Some big changes coming to AAs flagship transcon service with the A321Ts.

From this points guy article above beginning Nov 4 AA will be removing the A321T from JFK-LAX and replacing with just 2 daily 772 service and on Nov. 30th AA will go down to just 1 daily A321T JFK-SFO service.

Some other changes are mentioned as well for other routes as well in the article.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2171
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:55 pm

None of this is really bad news, per se. The 777 on 2 x daily JFK-LAX is temporary for now, and will allow for more cargo, more social distancing on board, even with reduced but not eliminated demand for travel over the Thanksgiving period. It seems like the schedule will eventually go back to normal. Presumably, maintenance can be performed on the A321Ts (some of them really need a good deep cleaning on the interior, as several I've flown on show a lot of wear and tear in the cabin). The AA 772 is a really nice ride, actually. The refits done a few years ago made them look crisp, clean, and inviting on the interior. The Business Class cabin (assuming it is not the infamous rocking seat) is a decent product, minus AA's not to so great catering. The Premium Economy cabin is also nice. AA was supposed to restart two JFK-Europe routes this month (CDG and MXP), neither of which is happening. Perhaps the scheduling of the 772 on LAX is a shift to compensate for that operationally. The hard reality is travel is down very substantially and it will go down even more into the year-end period if COVID19 cases continue to rise in the US, which they are. People just don't want to fly unless they absolutely have to and business travel is essentially non-existent.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3031
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:00 pm

I just noticed the article myself and I was shocked. Even though we are in a pandemic I never thought I would see AA down to just 1x daily JFK-SFO or 2x daily JFK-LAX. Even if it is temporary it is still jarring because no one never envisions AA doing something like this even temporarily.

Does anyone know when the AA/B6 codeshare goes into effect? Could this temporary reduction have anything to do with the codeshare?
 
global1
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:05 pm

Since when does AA factor in ’social distancing on board’?
 
WN732
Posts: 827
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:07 pm

jayunited wrote:
I just noticed the article myself and I was shocked. Even though we are in a pandemic I never thought I would see AA down to just 1x daily JFK-SFO or 2x daily JFK-LAX. Even if it is temporary it is still jarring because no one never envisions AA doing something like this even temporarily.

Does anyone know when the AA/B6 codeshare goes into effect? Could this temporary reduction have anything to do with the codeshare?


Business travel is nearly dead. Especially in California and New York. Some of the narrowbody pilots also were furloughed and the rest are need elsewhere. The 777 guys also have slack in their schedule so it's a perfect fit.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8540
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:35 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
None of this is really bad news, per se.


It's a stunning reduction in frequency in what has been the country's premier business markets. It doesn't matter if they're running freakin' Air Force One: 2X LAX-JFK just isn't going to be competitive against 5x B6, 4x DL (also widebody lie flats), and 4x UA to EWR (2 of which are 787-10). There is still business travel, just like there are still people flying to London and Paris. The reasoning for the 32B was that frequency matters, and people will pay for frequency. It's a dominant driver in U.S. air travel. NYC-CHI, NYC-MIA/FLL, LAX-SFO -- many flights, not biggest aircraft.
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:36 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:10 am

dcajet wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
dcajet wrote:

You are correct. American has pretty much dismantled long haul international flying out of LAX.

2x LHR
2x HND
1x SYD
1x AKL
1x CHC (still planned)

not exactly. still a pretty decent schedule. would be shocked if HKG and GRU did not come back once the situation in both destinations improve


Dismantled may have been a strong word choice, I'll give you that. But the hair cut was significant:

Image

Source: Forbes


I think it’s as close to dismantle as you can get when you consider:
1.) LHR and Tokyo were there before the buildup of LAX as the TPAC hub. SYD and AKL are truly the only incremental rotes that remain, and AKL is not even daily
2.) Their remaining destinations are just to OW hubs and New Zealand (a Qantas stronghold)
3.) UA/DL offer a very competitive international portfolio at LAX in addition to their other west coast TPAC gateways of SFO/SEA.

When items 1 & 2 are taken into consideration, dismantle may not be far from reality.
 
halrudy
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:36 pm

AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:47 am

Between Nov 4-30, AA reducing to 2 frequencies JFK-LAX and swapping the 321Ts to the 777-200. JFK-SFO goes to a solo 321T.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2171
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:58 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
None of this is really bad news, per se.


It's a stunning reduction in frequency in what has been the country's premier business markets. It doesn't matter if they're running freakin' Air Force One: 2X LAX-JFK just isn't going to be competitive against 5x B6, 4x DL (also widebody lie flats), and 4x UA to EWR (2 of which are 787-10). There is still business travel, just like there are still people flying to London and Paris. The reasoning for the 32B was that frequency matters, and people will pay for frequency. It's a dominant driver in U.S. air travel. NYC-CHI, NYC-MIA/FLL, LAX-SFO -- many flights, not biggest aircraft.


Unless of course, B6/DL/UA are all burning cash flying half to 3/4 empty planes on these routes, and holding them for prestige. Either way, it's a well known fact that apart from JFK-LHR, the AA operation at JFK was not profitable until 2019, when, starting with the Spring 2019 season, and the standardization of long hauls around the 772/77W, the entire operation turned profitable. AA at JFK exists to service its frequent flyer base and corporate contracts. It's not meant to be a hub nor is it one really. Flew JFK-LAX and SFO-JFK on Delta three weeks ago. The flights had about 33 people on board going out and 21 on the return. Everyone's losing money on these and most routes right now. The question is, who wants to lose less.
 
Insertnamehere
Posts: 336
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:44 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:02 am

I guess with premium traffic being nonexistent because of the frankly disappointing service that exists currently, it makes more sense to fly aircraft with larger Y cabins. Hopefully we get the A321T back. It seemed like an interesting aircraft and I hope I can score an F seat on it eventually.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26289
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:51 am

Also has to do with cargo needs, shortage of narrowbody pilots and excess widebody pilots. MIA is getting a ton of domestic widebody flying including 2x daily 77W to LAX.
a.
 
rising
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:51 am

Anyone hear any update on the Project Kodiak mods? It was my understanding that was one of the few projects that is continuing due to the standardization/harmonization it brings.

Also too any info on active fleet/ short-term storage/long-term storage? Sorry if I missed this but I just have no been able to find anything recently. Thanks!
If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
 
cm642
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:16 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:56 am

Ishrion wrote:
AA loaded some Hawaii changes:

- PHX-HNL from November 18 swapped from 787-9 to 777-200ER. It's currently set to switch to the 787-9 on December 1. (December schedule not finalized)
- ORD-HNL resumes on November 20 using the 777-200ER. Then it switches to the 787-9 from December 1. (December schedule not finalized)
- 1x daily DFW-HNL upgauges to 777-300ER from November 4.
- The second daily DFW-HNL returns on November 18 on the 772. The other daily 777-300ER continues through November.

Additionally:
- 2 of 4 MIA-JFK flights are on the 777-200ER from November 4.



Wonder where the PHX 777 is coming from?
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3895
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:59 am

Insertnamehere wrote:
I guess with premium traffic being nonexistent because of the frankly disappointing service that exists currently, it makes more sense to fly aircraft with larger Y cabins. Hopefully we get the A321T back. It seemed like an interesting aircraft and I hope I can score an F seat on it eventually.


Hint.

The inflight service is not why the premium traffic is non-existent. It is more like no entertainment industry functions are happening right now and everyone with means has fled NYC and LA at least until this is over.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
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Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:12 am

I have to wonder if this also has to do with the B6 partnership. Could B6 be a slot beneficiary at both ends? (B6 doesn't have F, but it does have an international-style J.)
 
panamair
Posts: 4348
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:15 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
None of this is really bad news, per se.


It's a stunning reduction in frequency in what has been the country's premier business markets. It doesn't matter if they're running freakin' Air Force One: 2X LAX-JFK just isn't going to be competitive against 5x B6, 4x DL (also widebody lie flats), and 4x UA to EWR (2 of which are 787-10). There is still business travel, just like there are still people flying to London and Paris. The reasoning for the 32B was that frequency matters, and people will pay for frequency. It's a dominant driver in U.S. air travel. NYC-CHI, NYC-MIA/FLL, LAX-SFO -- many flights, not biggest aircraft.


Unless of course, B6/DL/UA are all burning cash flying half to 3/4 empty planes on these routes, and holding them for prestige. Either way, it's a well known fact that apart from JFK-LHR, the AA operation at JFK was not profitable until 2019, when, starting with the Spring 2019 season, and the standardization of long hauls around the 772/77W, the entire operation turned profitable. AA at JFK exists to service its frequent flyer base and corporate contracts. It's not meant to be a hub nor is it one really. Flew JFK-LAX and SFO-JFK on Delta three weeks ago. The flights had about 33 people on board going out and 21 on the return. Everyone's losing money on these and most routes right now. The question is, who wants to lose less.


Some DL JFK folks have told me that DL has been keeping JFK-LAX on 767s at up to 5x a day due to cargo. That may be what AA is going for as well with the 777s.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:16 am

Well...finally got widebodies back on this route...with dire frequencies.

Gotta hand it to B6...they won the premium transcon war. United gone, AA down to a few flights. Just B6 and DL in the real game now.

Unthinkable 10 years ago!
 
Moosefire
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:23 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I have to wonder if this also has to do with the B6 partnership. Could B6 be a slot beneficiary at both ends? (B6 doesn't have F, but it does have an international-style J.)


I think it’s because yields to NYC are garbage
MD-11F/C-17A Pilot
 
onwFan
Posts: 477
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:34 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Just B6 and DL in the real game now.


Yeah, because Nov 4-30 in the midst of covid is the real game for LAX-JFK, right?
 
airzona11
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Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:39 am

Relative to Covid this is a decent amount of seats, the cargo has to be a driver. Plus the widebodies are getting far better utilization from a work force perspective. I have been hearing anyone flying those routes with status is flying up front.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:45 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Insertnamehere wrote:
I guess with premium traffic being nonexistent because of the frankly disappointing service that exists currently, it makes more sense to fly aircraft with larger Y cabins. Hopefully we get the A321T back. It seemed like an interesting aircraft and I hope I can score an F seat on it eventually.


Hint.

The inflight service is not why the premium traffic is non-existent. It is more like no entertainment industry functions are happening right now and everyone with means has fled NYC and LA at least until this is over.


Exactly, and anyone in the entertainment industry who does need to travel is going private for the perceived safety. There is literally no business, in entertainment or finance, currently flying dozens of people across the country in paid premium cabins.

Cargo and very price sensitive leisure is the only traffic right now. Low frequency 777s is just about perfect for the current market situation. Doesn't mean that will stick once the market rebounds.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
WN732
Posts: 827
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:57 am

I would also imagine that a good bunch of the furloughed pilots came from the A320 group so they may be reducing some of those A321 transcon routes to free up some pilots for shorter sectors. The narrowbodies on average have the younger FO and CA rosters than the 777, etc.

Did they ever show a breakdown of the groups that were furloughed?

I know at DL a lot of the 220 guys are out for now.

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