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panamair
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Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:49 am

Just noticed that JFK-LAX has been reduced to 2x daily and JFK-SFO to 1x daily in November (including Thanksgiving). While SFO remains the A321T, LAX will be using the 772, so total capacity is about the same or more than these past few months with the A321T; this also means no Flagship First on JFK-LAX at least for November
 
MIflyer12
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:58 am

Ishrion wrote:
Did DFW-PVG just get pushed from November to January 1, 2021?


It does look that way in ITA Matrix. AA 127 starts daily 1/1/21.
 
aerace
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:19 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
PHL seems to be the big winner for the November schedule at least compared to October.


Capacity add or destinations return? Or mix of both?
 
onwFan
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:26 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Did DFW-PVG just get pushed from November to January 1, 2021?

Isn’t this route contingent on relaxation of the current restriction on # of flights allowed between US & China (currently capped at 8 weekly, all of which are being used)?
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4045
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:28 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
PHL seems to be the big winner for the November schedule at least compared to October.


ORD seems to be the worst off. I'm noticing several destinations like BUF, ROC, ALB, PVD being cut down to 1x daily.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:55 pm

Will be interesting to see the comparisons on the OAG report on Tuesday. I thought UA may have cut too much for November (pretty status quo from October), but now it’s looking like AA did about the same, maybe even more...but will have to see.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:39 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Did DFW-PVG just get pushed from November to January 1, 2021?


It does look that way in ITA Matrix. AA 127 starts daily 1/1/21.


I think AA will do the same as DL/UA in that the PVG aircraft will stop in Seoul Incheon to change crews. That could be why there is no nonstop from DFW-PVG until the new year. Now AA will have to get the Chinese government to allow for extra frequencies on the US-China routes.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:35 pm

AA loaded some Hawaii changes:

- PHX-HNL from November 18 swapped from 787-9 to 777-200ER. It's currently set to switch to the 787-9 on December 1. (December schedule not finalized)
- ORD-HNL resumes on November 20 using the 777-200ER. Then it switches to the 787-9 from December 1. (December schedule not finalized)
- 1x daily DFW-HNL upgauges to 777-300ER from November 4.
- The second daily DFW-HNL returns on November 18 on the 772. The other daily 777-300ER continues through November.

Additionally:
- 2 of 4 MIA-JFK flights are on the 777-200ER from November 4.
 
FARmd90
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:42 pm

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... n-changes/

Some big changes coming to AAs flagship transcon service with the A321Ts.

From this points guy article above beginning Nov 4 AA will be removing the A321T from JFK-LAX and replacing with just 2 daily 772 service and on Nov. 30th AA will go down to just 1 daily A321T JFK-SFO service.

Some other changes are mentioned as well for other routes as well in the article.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:55 pm

None of this is really bad news, per se. The 777 on 2 x daily JFK-LAX is temporary for now, and will allow for more cargo, more social distancing on board, even with reduced but not eliminated demand for travel over the Thanksgiving period. It seems like the schedule will eventually go back to normal. Presumably, maintenance can be performed on the A321Ts (some of them really need a good deep cleaning on the interior, as several I've flown on show a lot of wear and tear in the cabin). The AA 772 is a really nice ride, actually. The refits done a few years ago made them look crisp, clean, and inviting on the interior. The Business Class cabin (assuming it is not the infamous rocking seat) is a decent product, minus AA's not to so great catering. The Premium Economy cabin is also nice. AA was supposed to restart two JFK-Europe routes this month (CDG and MXP), neither of which is happening. Perhaps the scheduling of the 772 on LAX is a shift to compensate for that operationally. The hard reality is travel is down very substantially and it will go down even more into the year-end period if COVID19 cases continue to rise in the US, which they are. People just don't want to fly unless they absolutely have to and business travel is essentially non-existent.
 
jayunited
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Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:00 pm

I just noticed the article myself and I was shocked. Even though we are in a pandemic I never thought I would see AA down to just 1x daily JFK-SFO or 2x daily JFK-LAX. Even if it is temporary it is still jarring because no one never envisions AA doing something like this even temporarily.

Does anyone know when the AA/B6 codeshare goes into effect? Could this temporary reduction have anything to do with the codeshare?
 
global1
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Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:05 pm

Since when does AA factor in ’social distancing on board’?
 
WN732
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Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:07 pm

jayunited wrote:
I just noticed the article myself and I was shocked. Even though we are in a pandemic I never thought I would see AA down to just 1x daily JFK-SFO or 2x daily JFK-LAX. Even if it is temporary it is still jarring because no one never envisions AA doing something like this even temporarily.

Does anyone know when the AA/B6 codeshare goes into effect? Could this temporary reduction have anything to do with the codeshare?


Business travel is nearly dead. Especially in California and New York. Some of the narrowbody pilots also were furloughed and the rest are need elsewhere. The 777 guys also have slack in their schedule so it's a perfect fit.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:35 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
None of this is really bad news, per se.


It's a stunning reduction in frequency in what has been the country's premier business markets. It doesn't matter if they're running freakin' Air Force One: 2X LAX-JFK just isn't going to be competitive against 5x B6, 4x DL (also widebody lie flats), and 4x UA to EWR (2 of which are 787-10). There is still business travel, just like there are still people flying to London and Paris. The reasoning for the 32B was that frequency matters, and people will pay for frequency. It's a dominant driver in U.S. air travel. NYC-CHI, NYC-MIA/FLL, LAX-SFO -- many flights, not biggest aircraft.
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 254
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:10 am

dcajet wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
dcajet wrote:

You are correct. American has pretty much dismantled long haul international flying out of LAX.

2x LHR
2x HND
1x SYD
1x AKL
1x CHC (still planned)

not exactly. still a pretty decent schedule. would be shocked if HKG and GRU did not come back once the situation in both destinations improve


Dismantled may have been a strong word choice, I'll give you that. But the hair cut was significant:

Image

Source: Forbes


I think it’s as close to dismantle as you can get when you consider:
1.) LHR and Tokyo were there before the buildup of LAX as the TPAC hub. SYD and AKL are truly the only incremental rotes that remain, and AKL is not even daily
2.) Their remaining destinations are just to OW hubs and New Zealand (a Qantas stronghold)
3.) UA/DL offer a very competitive international portfolio at LAX in addition to their other west coast TPAC gateways of SFO/SEA.

When items 1 & 2 are taken into consideration, dismantle may not be far from reality.
 
halrudy
Posts: 25
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AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:47 am

Between Nov 4-30, AA reducing to 2 frequencies JFK-LAX and swapping the 321Ts to the 777-200. JFK-SFO goes to a solo 321T.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:58 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
None of this is really bad news, per se.


It's a stunning reduction in frequency in what has been the country's premier business markets. It doesn't matter if they're running freakin' Air Force One: 2X LAX-JFK just isn't going to be competitive against 5x B6, 4x DL (also widebody lie flats), and 4x UA to EWR (2 of which are 787-10). There is still business travel, just like there are still people flying to London and Paris. The reasoning for the 32B was that frequency matters, and people will pay for frequency. It's a dominant driver in U.S. air travel. NYC-CHI, NYC-MIA/FLL, LAX-SFO -- many flights, not biggest aircraft.


Unless of course, B6/DL/UA are all burning cash flying half to 3/4 empty planes on these routes, and holding them for prestige. Either way, it's a well known fact that apart from JFK-LHR, the AA operation at JFK was not profitable until 2019, when, starting with the Spring 2019 season, and the standardization of long hauls around the 772/77W, the entire operation turned profitable. AA at JFK exists to service its frequent flyer base and corporate contracts. It's not meant to be a hub nor is it one really. Flew JFK-LAX and SFO-JFK on Delta three weeks ago. The flights had about 33 people on board going out and 21 on the return. Everyone's losing money on these and most routes right now. The question is, who wants to lose less.
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:02 am

I guess with premium traffic being nonexistent because of the frankly disappointing service that exists currently, it makes more sense to fly aircraft with larger Y cabins. Hopefully we get the A321T back. It seemed like an interesting aircraft and I hope I can score an F seat on it eventually.
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:51 am

Also has to do with cargo needs, shortage of narrowbody pilots and excess widebody pilots. MIA is getting a ton of domestic widebody flying including 2x daily 77W to LAX.
a.
 
rising
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:51 am

Anyone hear any update on the Project Kodiak mods? It was my understanding that was one of the few projects that is continuing due to the standardization/harmonization it brings.

Also too any info on active fleet/ short-term storage/long-term storage? Sorry if I missed this but I just have no been able to find anything recently. Thanks!
If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
 
cm642
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:56 am

Ishrion wrote:
AA loaded some Hawaii changes:

- PHX-HNL from November 18 swapped from 787-9 to 777-200ER. It's currently set to switch to the 787-9 on December 1. (December schedule not finalized)
- ORD-HNL resumes on November 20 using the 777-200ER. Then it switches to the 787-9 from December 1. (December schedule not finalized)
- 1x daily DFW-HNL upgauges to 777-300ER from November 4.
- The second daily DFW-HNL returns on November 18 on the 772. The other daily 777-300ER continues through November.

Additionally:
- 2 of 4 MIA-JFK flights are on the 777-200ER from November 4.



Wonder where the PHX 777 is coming from?
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4045
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:59 am

Insertnamehere wrote:
I guess with premium traffic being nonexistent because of the frankly disappointing service that exists currently, it makes more sense to fly aircraft with larger Y cabins. Hopefully we get the A321T back. It seemed like an interesting aircraft and I hope I can score an F seat on it eventually.


Hint.

The inflight service is not why the premium traffic is non-existent. It is more like no entertainment industry functions are happening right now and everyone with means has fled NYC and LA at least until this is over.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:12 am

I have to wonder if this also has to do with the B6 partnership. Could B6 be a slot beneficiary at both ends? (B6 doesn't have F, but it does have an international-style J.)
 
panamair
Posts: 4401
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:15 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
None of this is really bad news, per se.


It's a stunning reduction in frequency in what has been the country's premier business markets. It doesn't matter if they're running freakin' Air Force One: 2X LAX-JFK just isn't going to be competitive against 5x B6, 4x DL (also widebody lie flats), and 4x UA to EWR (2 of which are 787-10). There is still business travel, just like there are still people flying to London and Paris. The reasoning for the 32B was that frequency matters, and people will pay for frequency. It's a dominant driver in U.S. air travel. NYC-CHI, NYC-MIA/FLL, LAX-SFO -- many flights, not biggest aircraft.


Unless of course, B6/DL/UA are all burning cash flying half to 3/4 empty planes on these routes, and holding them for prestige. Either way, it's a well known fact that apart from JFK-LHR, the AA operation at JFK was not profitable until 2019, when, starting with the Spring 2019 season, and the standardization of long hauls around the 772/77W, the entire operation turned profitable. AA at JFK exists to service its frequent flyer base and corporate contracts. It's not meant to be a hub nor is it one really. Flew JFK-LAX and SFO-JFK on Delta three weeks ago. The flights had about 33 people on board going out and 21 on the return. Everyone's losing money on these and most routes right now. The question is, who wants to lose less.


Some DL JFK folks have told me that DL has been keeping JFK-LAX on 767s at up to 5x a day due to cargo. That may be what AA is going for as well with the 777s.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:16 am

Well...finally got widebodies back on this route...with dire frequencies.

Gotta hand it to B6...they won the premium transcon war. United gone, AA down to a few flights. Just B6 and DL in the real game now.

Unthinkable 10 years ago!
 
Moosefire
Posts: 162
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Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:23 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I have to wonder if this also has to do with the B6 partnership. Could B6 be a slot beneficiary at both ends? (B6 doesn't have F, but it does have an international-style J.)


I think it’s because yields to NYC are garbage
MD-11F/C-17A Pilot
 
onwFan
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:34 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Just B6 and DL in the real game now.


Yeah, because Nov 4-30 in the midst of covid is the real game for LAX-JFK, right?
 
airzona11
Posts: 1840
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Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:39 am

Relative to Covid this is a decent amount of seats, the cargo has to be a driver. Plus the widebodies are getting far better utilization from a work force perspective. I have been hearing anyone flying those routes with status is flying up front.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:45 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Insertnamehere wrote:
I guess with premium traffic being nonexistent because of the frankly disappointing service that exists currently, it makes more sense to fly aircraft with larger Y cabins. Hopefully we get the A321T back. It seemed like an interesting aircraft and I hope I can score an F seat on it eventually.


Hint.

The inflight service is not why the premium traffic is non-existent. It is more like no entertainment industry functions are happening right now and everyone with means has fled NYC and LA at least until this is over.


Exactly, and anyone in the entertainment industry who does need to travel is going private for the perceived safety. There is literally no business, in entertainment or finance, currently flying dozens of people across the country in paid premium cabins.

Cargo and very price sensitive leisure is the only traffic right now. Low frequency 777s is just about perfect for the current market situation. Doesn't mean that will stick once the market rebounds.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
WN732
Posts: 946
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:57 am

I would also imagine that a good bunch of the furloughed pilots came from the A320 group so they may be reducing some of those A321 transcon routes to free up some pilots for shorter sectors. The narrowbodies on average have the younger FO and CA rosters than the 777, etc.

Did they ever show a breakdown of the groups that were furloughed?

I know at DL a lot of the 220 guys are out for now.
 
WN732
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:06 am

BA744PHX wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
cathay747 wrote:

I've never been able to understand why PHX-PRC doesn't seem to work as a spoke from the PHX hub. HP ran it for a while at least with their regional arm, but I don't think US ever did, and AA never has since the merger with US. I know PHX-PRC won't work local-market alone as it's been tried by Great Lakes; even with EAS subsidy they couldn't charge a fare low enough to compete with the van service (hell, even with limo service!). But as a spoke from the hub? I don't understand the problem. PRC has grown so much over the decades, largely with Calif. transplants, you'd think there would be plenty of traffic to support at least 2 daily connections from PHX. My mom has lived there for 25+ years, so I know a good deal about this; not saying I'm 100% correct on everything, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. AS tried running QX from LAX using a triangle route combined with FLG, and it didn't last long...but that may have been because they didn't have enough feed at LAX back then to make it work. UA seems to be making their Express CRJ flights work at PRC to both DEN & LAX.

In short, it's weird. To me anyway.


I’ve flown PHX-PRC on Mesa many times in the 90s and early 2000s when it was America West Express on Beech 1900s. You are correct and there is practically no local demand for the flight, but there are several other factors that would make the argument for a spoke from PHX challenging in today’s landscape:

- The Beech 1900 flights on PHX-PRC were combined with IGM or PGA, which helped spread out the costs with the other stations.

- There is ample and frequent ground transportation to PHX that competes for what demand of connecting traffic is there.

- There is no ideal aircraft in the AA Eagle fleet that could economically carry out the mission on the 87 mile segment. Any CRJ would be to big or inefficient for that route. Also, the closer a spoke is to a hub, the more vulnerable it becomes to delays and misconnects should there be weather or ATC issues.

- It was Skywest that was awarded the EAS subsidy to PRC, not UA. DEN (and LAX to a lesser extent) not only has decent local demand from PRC, but also connects to markets that AA could have done via PHX.

This may seem a little far-fetched, but Instead of PHX-PRC, AA may find that there would be more network value to have a 1x daily DFW-PRC with a CRJ-700, which would then open up even more possible connections than what DEN, LAX or PHX would be able to offer.


For argument sake PHX-FLG is only 119 miles (varies from 4-6 daily flights) compared to PHX-PRC at 87, not much difference if driving or flying.

I think AA could add 2 daily to PHX and 1 daily to DFW


Seems like a good market for Boutique Air, maybe even from their small operation at LAX. They still code share with UA so that does also offer decent West Coast connections.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3100
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:29 am

WN732 wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:

I’ve flown PHX-PRC on Mesa many times in the 90s and early 2000s when it was America West Express on Beech 1900s. You are correct and there is practically no local demand for the flight, but there are several other factors that would make the argument for a spoke from PHX challenging in today’s landscape:

- The Beech 1900 flights on PHX-PRC were combined with IGM or PGA, which helped spread out the costs with the other stations.

- There is ample and frequent ground transportation to PHX that competes for what demand of connecting traffic is there.

- There is no ideal aircraft in the AA Eagle fleet that could economically carry out the mission on the 87 mile segment. Any CRJ would be to big or inefficient for that route. Also, the closer a spoke is to a hub, the more vulnerable it becomes to delays and misconnects should there be weather or ATC issues.

- It was Skywest that was awarded the EAS subsidy to PRC, not UA. DEN (and LAX to a lesser extent) not only has decent local demand from PRC, but also connects to markets that AA could have done via PHX.

This may seem a little far-fetched, but Instead of PHX-PRC, AA may find that there would be more network value to have a 1x daily DFW-PRC with a CRJ-700, which would then open up even more possible connections than what DEN, LAX or PHX would be able to offer.


For argument sake PHX-FLG is only 119 miles (varies from 4-6 daily flights) compared to PHX-PRC at 87, not much difference if driving or flying.

I think AA could add 2 daily to PHX and 1 daily to DFW


Seems like a good market for Boutique Air, maybe even from their small operation at LAX. They still code share with UA so that does also offer decent West Coast connections.

Boutique Air would have no reason to serve LAX-PRC as it’s already served by SkyWest dba United Express with CRJ-200s.
.......
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:43 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Insertnamehere wrote:
I guess with premium traffic being nonexistent because of the frankly disappointing service that exists currently, it makes more sense to fly aircraft with larger Y cabins. Hopefully we get the A321T back. It seemed like an interesting aircraft and I hope I can score an F seat on it eventually.


Hint.

The inflight service is not why the premium traffic is non-existent. It is more like no entertainment industry functions are happening right now and everyone with means has fled NYC and LA at least until this is over.


Exactly, and anyone in the entertainment industry who does need to travel is going private for the perceived safety. There is literally no business, in entertainment or finance, currently flying dozens of people across the country in paid premium cabins.

Cargo and very price sensitive leisure is the only traffic right now. Low frequency 777s is just about perfect for the current market situation. Doesn't mean that will stick once the market rebounds.


No. I’m in entertainment. Travel is near zilch since execs aren’t flying, but nobody is going private. Actors are slowly returning to work and taking commercial flights like they always do.
a.
 
Fixinthe757
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:48 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:34 am

not surprising. we had 26 AA772s stored here, all are gone now minus 3 for heavy checks. The majority went back into service, most for use as cargo haulers. But i can see a couple being used for trans con flights. At least theyre flying again
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6298
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:48 am

onwFan wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Just B6 and DL in the real game now.


Yeah, because Nov 4-30 in the midst of covid is the real game for LAX-JFK, right?


B6 is running 5-6 a day. And this period includes Thanksgiving. Even in a pandemic.

What is the total number of AA flights from JFK after this change? Surely below 20, right?
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:13 am

panamair wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

It's a stunning reduction in frequency in what has been the country's premier business markets. It doesn't matter if they're running freakin' Air Force One: 2X LAX-JFK just isn't going to be competitive against 5x B6, 4x DL (also widebody lie flats), and 4x UA to EWR (2 of which are 787-10). There is still business travel, just like there are still people flying to London and Paris. The reasoning for the 32B was that frequency matters, and people will pay for frequency. It's a dominant driver in U.S. air travel. NYC-CHI, NYC-MIA/FLL, LAX-SFO -- many flights, not biggest aircraft.


Unless of course, B6/DL/UA are all burning cash flying half to 3/4 empty planes on these routes, and holding them for prestige. Either way, it's a well known fact that apart from JFK-LHR, the AA operation at JFK was not profitable until 2019, when, starting with the Spring 2019 season, and the standardization of long hauls around the 772/77W, the entire operation turned profitable. AA at JFK exists to service its frequent flyer base and corporate contracts. It's not meant to be a hub nor is it one really. Flew JFK-LAX and SFO-JFK on Delta three weeks ago. The flights had about 33 people on board going out and 21 on the return. Everyone's losing money on these and most routes right now. The question is, who wants to lose less.


Some DL JFK folks have told me that DL has been keeping JFK-LAX on 767s at up to 5x a day due to cargo. That may be what AA is going for as well with the 777s.


That is indeed the reason for AA putting the 772 2 x daily to LAX from JFK. Same reason the 77W is flying the single daily nonstop to LHR. It's all about cargo.
 
Cointrin330
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Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:14 am

cm642 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA loaded some Hawaii changes:

- PHX-HNL from November 18 swapped from 787-9 to 777-200ER. It's currently set to switch to the 787-9 on December 1. (December schedule not finalized)
- ORD-HNL resumes on November 20 using the 777-200ER. Then it switches to the 787-9 from December 1. (December schedule not finalized)
- 1x daily DFW-HNL upgauges to 777-300ER from November 4.
- The second daily DFW-HNL returns on November 18 on the 772. The other daily 777-300ER continues through November.

Additionally:
- 2 of 4 MIA-JFK flights are on the 777-200ER from November 4.



Wonder where the PHX 777 is coming from?


There are 47 772s in the AA fleet. They have plenty of spares sitting around right now.
 
Miamiairport
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: AA changes on JFK-LAX/SFO

Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:23 am

global1 wrote:
Since when does AA factor in ’social distancing on board’?


AA will find a way to have a butt in every seat even if they have to near give away the seat. All of the other domestic 772 routes are 100% full.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6156
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:26 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Well...finally got widebodies back on this route...with dire frequencies.

Gotta hand it to B6...they won the premium transcon war. United gone, AA down to a few flights. Just B6 and DL in the real game now.

Unthinkable 10 years ago!

Yep, they are running peak 9x on NYC-LAX in Nov. DL is running 5x, UA 4x and AA 2x

At this pace, AA might not need A321T anymore. Whether JFK-SFO sticks around becomes a real question

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I have to wonder if this also has to do with the B6 partnership. Could B6 be a slot beneficiary at both ends? (B6 doesn't have F, but it does have an international-style J.)

It's not just on transcon:

BOS-LAX completely gone again (several months counting now)
BOS-ORD/MIA no flight on Tuesdays
NYC is basically down to hubs + BOS

How many routes are AA going to bring back out of LGA/JFK? You have to wonder with their partnership, how many routes AA will bring back out of LGA by this point next year.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 2118
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:07 pm

I noticed an A321T swap in on PIT-DFW-PIT last Friday. Ferried in from JFK and did a round-trip. Thought that was very unusual.

Since their utilization will be way down, I’m curious to see if they will end up getting spread out around the system or grounded once again.
 
codc10
Posts: 3054
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:37 pm

Obviously demand on transcons is completely in the toilet, but I also buy the reasons for staffing and cargo. I understand LAX 320 goes pretty junior for AA, and any NB base in the NYC area is generally the same due to the high cost of living in the area (commuting to reserve is probably the least desirable lifestyle in the airline business). Presumably, the first tranche of AA furloughs will hit NB FOs at junior domiciles.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3572
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:07 pm

AA's suspending passenger DFW/LAX-HND until March 27, 2021.

https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/05/very ... ts-roll-in
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:11 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Well...finally got widebodies back on this route...with dire frequencies.

Gotta hand it to B6...they won the premium transcon war. United gone, AA down to a few flights. Just B6 and DL in the real game now.

Unthinkable 10 years ago!


Not so sure that is truly accurate. Widebodies on NYC-LAX/SFO are about cargo primarily and social distancing. Cargo is where the money is right now, not passengers. No one is in the real game of anything and just trying to survive. B6 has the smallest cargo capacity of them all, since the largest plane it flies is the A321.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:13 pm

tphuang wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Well...finally got widebodies back on this route...with dire frequencies.

Gotta hand it to B6...they won the premium transcon war. United gone, AA down to a few flights. Just B6 and DL in the real game now.

Unthinkable 10 years ago!

Yep, they are running peak 9x on NYC-LAX in Nov. DL is running 5x, UA 4x and AA 2x

At this pace, AA might not need A321T anymore. Whether JFK-SFO sticks around becomes a real question

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I have to wonder if this also has to do with the B6 partnership. Could B6 be a slot beneficiary at both ends? (B6 doesn't have F, but it does have an international-style J.)

It's not just on transcon:

BOS-LAX completely gone again (several months counting now)
BOS-ORD/MIA no flight on Tuesdays
NYC is basically down to hubs + BOS

How many routes are AA going to bring back out of LGA/JFK? You have to wonder with their partnership, how many routes AA will bring back out of LGA by this point next year.


Yep, AA is going broke. Will disappear. The skies over the US will be ruled by JetBlue. Wishful thinking.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6156
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:23 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Well...finally got widebodies back on this route...with dire frequencies.

Gotta hand it to B6...they won the premium transcon war. United gone, AA down to a few flights. Just B6 and DL in the real game now.

Unthinkable 10 years ago!

Yep, they are running peak 9x on NYC-LAX in Nov. DL is running 5x, UA 4x and AA 2x

At this pace, AA might not need A321T anymore. Whether JFK-SFO sticks around becomes a real question

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I have to wonder if this also has to do with the B6 partnership. Could B6 be a slot beneficiary at both ends? (B6 doesn't have F, but it does have an international-style J.)

It's not just on transcon:

BOS-LAX completely gone again (several months counting now)
BOS-ORD/MIA no flight on Tuesdays
NYC is basically down to hubs + BOS

How many routes are AA going to bring back out of LGA/JFK? You have to wonder with their partnership, how many routes AA will bring back out of LGA by this point next year.


Yep, AA is going broke. Will disappear. The skies over the US will be ruled by JetBlue. Wishful thinking.


Didn't say anything about AA going broke. In fact, handling their NYC/LAX flying to partners is a good way for them to stay out of bankruptcy.

AA is now flying 55% of their pre-COVID schedule and NYC is down to hubs + BOS/SFO. Let's say they are at 70% of their pre-COVID schedule by next summer, which additional routes are they bringing back?

You want to make some predictions? Because thus far, AA has shown no indication they are willing to fight it out in NYC/LAX. Their reductions on JFK-LAX/SFO is just the latest evidences of that.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3516
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:36 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Well...finally got widebodies back on this route...with dire frequencies.

Gotta hand it to B6...they won the premium transcon war. United gone, AA down to a few flights. Just B6 and DL in the real game now.

Unthinkable 10 years ago!


Not so sure that is truly accurate. Widebodies on NYC-LAX/SFO are about cargo primarily and social distancing. Cargo is where the money is right now, not passengers. No one is in the real game of anything and just trying to survive. B6 has the smallest cargo capacity of them all, since the largest plane it flies is the A321.

Cargo rates are nowhere near where they were in March and April. It’s helping make flights sustainable, but they aren’t getting near what they were just a few months ago.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4045
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:36 pm

tphuang wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Yep, they are running peak 9x on NYC-LAX in Nov. DL is running 5x, UA 4x and AA 2x

At this pace, AA might not need A321T anymore. Whether JFK-SFO sticks around becomes a real question


It's not just on transcon:

BOS-LAX completely gone again (several months counting now)
BOS-ORD/MIA no flight on Tuesdays
NYC is basically down to hubs + BOS

How many routes are AA going to bring back out of LGA/JFK? You have to wonder with their partnership, how many routes AA will bring back out of LGA by this point next year.


Yep, AA is going broke. Will disappear. The skies over the US will be ruled by JetBlue. Wishful thinking.


Didn't say anything about AA going broke. In fact, handling their NYC/LAX flying to partners is a good way for them to stay out of bankruptcy.

AA is now flying 55% of their pre-COVID schedule and NYC is down to hubs + BOS/SFO. Let's say they are at 70% of their pre-COVID schedule by next summer, which additional routes are they bringing back?

You want to make some predictions? Because thus far, AA has shown no indication they are willing to fight it out in NYC/LAX. Their reductions on JFK-LAX/SFO is just the latest evidences of that.


[email protected] is basically a niche operation focused on business travelers in certain industries. If those industries have basically had all non-essential travel cancelled why would AA be in a hurry to bring those flights back? I think this speaks to the current travel demand to/from NYC not some sort of long term abandonment of their JFK ops. In other words, I think you are reading way too much into this.
 
11C
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:38 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Well...finally got widebodies back on this route...with dire frequencies.

Gotta hand it to B6...they won the premium transcon war. United gone, AA down to a few flights. Just B6 and DL in the real game now.

Unthinkable 10 years ago!

Yep, they are running peak 9x on NYC-LAX in Nov. DL is running 5x, UA 4x and AA 2x

At this pace, AA might not need A321T anymore. Whether JFK-SFO sticks around becomes a real question

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I have to wonder if this also has to do with the B6 partnership. Could B6 be a slot beneficiary at both ends? (B6 doesn't have F, but it does have an international-style J.)

It's not just on transcon:

BOS-LAX completely gone again (several months counting now)
BOS-ORD/MIA no flight on Tuesdays
NYC is basically down to hubs + BOS

How many routes are AA going to bring back out of LGA/JFK? You have to wonder with their partnership, how many routes AA will bring back out of LGA by this point next year.


Yep, AA is going broke. Will disappear. The skies over the US will be ruled by JetBlue. Wishful thinking.


Technically, I think we are all going broke. It’s a race to see if yields will improve before cash is all gone. One thing that is hard to argue, AA started this pandemic with quite a bit of debt. I wish everyone well, and hope we all survive.
 
onwFan
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:56 pm

tphuang wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Yep, they are running peak 9x on NYC-LAX in Nov. DL is running 5x, UA 4x and AA 2x

At this pace, AA might not need A321T anymore. Whether JFK-SFO sticks around becomes a real question


It's not just on transcon:

BOS-LAX completely gone again (several months counting now)
BOS-ORD/MIA no flight on Tuesdays
NYC is basically down to hubs + BOS

How many routes are AA going to bring back out of LGA/JFK? You have to wonder with their partnership, how many routes AA will bring back out of LGA by this point next year.


Yep, AA is going broke. Will disappear. The skies over the US will be ruled by JetBlue. Wishful thinking.


Didn't say anything about AA going broke. In fact, handling their NYC/LAX flying to partners is a good way for them to stay out of bankruptcy.

AA is now flying 55% of their pre-COVID schedule and NYC is down to hubs + BOS/SFO. Let's say they are at 70% of their pre-COVID schedule by next summer, which additional routes are they bringing back?

You want to make some predictions? Because thus far, AA has shown no indication they are willing to fight it out in NYC/LAX. Their reductions on JFK-LAX/SFO is just the latest evidences of that.

The configuration of the A321Ts speaks volumes of what AA was after in JFK-LAX and what their FFs in the market was composed of. With nil traffic in that, what exactly are they supposed to fight out for? $100 fares between east coast and west coast? JFK (and BOS) also served the dual purpose of connecting hubs for B6/DL (and EWR for UA), and the mix of their FFs will still reflect that. AA already has 4x PHL, 1x DCA and 2x JFK from LAX for that and the thanksgiving market. People are not traveling just between NY and LA... AA still their full schedule loaded one month out - they can choose to adjust capacity if there is even the slightest chance of making money any time in the near future on any of these routes...
 
jayunited
Posts: 3347
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: AA A321T Changes Nov

Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:26 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Well...finally got widebodies back on this route...with dire frequencies.

Gotta hand it to B6...they won the premium transcon war. United gone, AA down to a few flights. Just B6 and DL in the real game now.

Unthinkable 10 years ago!


Not so sure that is truly accurate. Widebodies on NYC-LAX/SFO are about cargo primarily and social distancing. Cargo is where the money is right now, not passengers. No one is in the real game of anything and just trying to survive. B6 has the smallest cargo capacity of them all, since the largest plane it flies is the A321.

Cargo rates are nowhere near where they were in March and April. It’s helping make flights sustainable, but they aren’t getting near what they were just a few months ago.



It depends on the type of cargo AA is going after. Cargo rates have not drop that substantially not like you are trying to make it appear if that were the case UA would not run cargo only flights between LAX-EWR and LAX-IAD this in addition to our 2x daily widebody flights between EWR-LAX.

So if AA is replacing 2 A321Ts with 2 77Es and an insider states it for cargo I tend to believe Cointrin330 because UA is doing the same thing. From our most recent NOC town hall we were told cargo is still where the money is at UA is now using 77Es for cargo only flights because we have no more 787s or 77Ws available.

I'm sure American Cargo is set up like United Cargo where you have(what United calls) quickpak, high priority cargo, priority cargo, general freight, and standby cargo. High priority cargo and quickpaks are the most expensive and United guarantees the cargo will be on the flight. It is the equivalent of buying a first class seat on a flight. If the cargo is not on the flight no matter the reason United has to refund the entire cost. But here is the kicker we still have to ship the cargo (for free) that can get expensive quickly especially if we are talking about a 10,000 LBS pallet missing its flight. Priority cargo United will deliver the cargo in 24-48 hours, and it goes on down to standby cargo where United has 7 days to ship the cargo from one destination to another. We don't see a lot of standby cargo or general freight, most shippers are paying extra for either a guaranteed spot or for priority which is 24-48 hours. Also cargo is separate from mail, during this pandemic it seems like UA's mail volumes are down while our cargo volume is up significantly. But then again airlines don't really make money off the mail so during a pandemic they are pursuing cargo contracts.

Don't be so quick to dismiss cargo, demand is still outstripping supply and airlines are still making a lot of money off cargo.

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