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USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:16 pm

Is EYW-MCO/TPA new? I see both loaded in the schedule as well with a E75. I don't ever recall seeing them announced....

AA will then serve EYW-MCO/TPA/BOS/CLT/DFW/PHL/DCA/MIA/ORD nonstop from EYW. Very impressive.
Last edited by USAirALB on Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:17 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Is EYW-MCO new? I see that loaded in the schedule as well with a E75. I don't ever recall seeing that announced...


It's new. TPA-EYW was also added: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1453639
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:12 pm

To add 777 pilot flight hours since they'll be paying minimums, anyway? It's not as if they'll see a lot of people paying big premiums for lie-flats on domestic flights into MCO. I'd like to see the math (irrespective of pilot minimums) for 7x 321 vs. 4x 777. They would get better connectivity thru the DFW hub, too, at 7x vs. 4x.
 
Brickell305
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:20 pm

sand26391 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:

I had to google what prepone meant. LOL

Good to hear they are moving forward.

They probably felt the need to as a competitive response to UA launching SFO-BLR.


But where is the demand? Thats the Million dollar question... with most of the companies having the option of WFH.... till June-July 21.. it will be an interesting update if they go through this. Lets see

Quite frankly, I don’t think there would have been enough demand pre COVID with UA on SFO-BLR. I think they launched this on the premise that UA would be technically constrained at SFO. Post COVID, with UA flying there too, I don’t see how this works. We’ll see though.
 
Brickell305
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:25 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
They have a lot of widebodies sitting around. Might as well use them to a proven domestic winner...Florida

And quite frankly, the rescheduling of widebodies to leisure routes during the holidays is the norm in most years. Once, business demand to Europe dives in winter, you often see scheduling similar to this. It’s just that this year, it’s in overdrive now that Euro/Asia demand has entirely collapsed.
 
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usxguy
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:42 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
To add 777 pilot flight hours since they'll be paying minimums, anyway? It's not as if they'll see a lot of people paying big premiums for lie-flats on domestic flights into MCO. I'd like to see the math (irrespective of pilot minimums) for 7x 321 vs. 4x 777. They would get better connectivity thru the DFW hub, too, at 7x vs. 4x.


Actually.... its the opposite. AA has been doing a lot of First Class discounting to/from Florida and its filling up the cabins. I have bought a handful of MIA/SEA trips on AA in F for less than $400 each way; and one of the legs is in the 77W/772. Great way to experience the Flagship First suite (row 1/2) on the 77W.

AA FQTV'ers have been complaining over the huge upgrade lists and so few people actually getting them lately.... my DFW/MIA flight last week had over 60 on the UG list, and only 2 cleared.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:08 pm

With these changes loaded, what will be their intl schedule for December?
 
Miamiairport
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:12 pm

DFW/MCO won't see as much premium demand as DFW/MIA but yeah on the widebody domestic flights J is definitely going out full with upgrades not clearing. AA will also discount connecting traffic into MCO. I I'm willing to accept a connection in MCO to DFW it's a very easy upgrade for me and a cheaper fare.
 
PI4EVR
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:14 pm

Schedules for EYW are loaded. Don't freak at some of the fares. They will be adjusted to normal levels in a few days. $900 TPA-EYW won't fly!
The flights are on Republic operated E175's and will definitely impact the service recently resumed by Silver (3M) from MCO and TPA to EYW. A pure jet over an ATR will be popular with the large AA FQTV's in both cities.
The flights on AA are morning inbounds to EYW and late evening returns with the E175 and crew overnighting in TPA and MCO. A great day trip schedule but not convenient for hotel/guesthouse/AirBnB'ers who have to check out at 12N. Go sit in a bar for 7+ hours, but I think the flights will be popular for the season.
If cruises resume in mid-December from TPA and MCO/Cape Canaveral Cruiseport an additional option for cruisers to add on EYW, and an option also for MCO/Disney visitors even for a quick day or overnight hop to EYW.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:33 pm

CLT- LAX and CLT-LAS in the 777 has been loaded also. And CLT-LHR starts 3x a week on the 772 on 11/4
 
phugoid1982
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:36 pm

How weight restricted are the AA/UA flights from EYW to ORD. That's almost 1300 miles from a short runway and ISA+ >25 temps
 
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usxguy
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:44 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
DFW/MCO won't see as much premium demand as DFW/MIA but yeah on the widebody domestic flights J is definitely going out full with upgrades not clearing. AA will also discount connecting traffic into MCO. I I'm willing to accept a connection in MCO to DFW it's a very easy upgrade for me and a cheaper fare.


I guess I should say.. AA is doing a LOT more "value proposition" fares in the markets. MIA/SEA is $99 Basic, $160ish Main, and $390-$420 First/Business. Friend even paid $250ish for First Class between PHL & MCO/FLL.

Ive noticed Alaska Air is doing the same... just bought a JNU/ANC flt for $250 in First, when Main Cabin was $210. $40 to lock in a bigger seat and 100% more EDM is worth it, in my mind.
 
sand26391
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:11 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
They probably felt the need to as a competitive response to UA launching SFO-BLR.


But where is the demand? Thats the Million dollar question... with most of the companies having the option of WFH.... till June-July 21.. it will be an interesting update if they go through this. Lets see

Quite frankly, I don’t think there would have been enough demand pre COVID with UA on SFO-BLR. I think they launched this on the premise that UA would be technically constrained at SFO. Post COVID, with UA flying there too, I don’t see how this works. We’ll see though.


Point taken, But I think WS 2021 maybe a better time to launch than say Spring 2021.
But even with UA launching SFO-BLR, they must be relying more on the VFR traffic more than the business IMHO...Business traffic will be nowhere near where it was in 2019. It will be interesting on how long wil these routes be sustainable for both UA and AA. I really hope they are sustainable on the long run, esp for AA.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:41 pm

sand26391 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
sand26391 wrote:

But where is the demand? Thats the Million dollar question... with most of the companies having the option of WFH.... till June-July 21.. it will be an interesting update if they go through this. Lets see

Quite frankly, I don’t think there would have been enough demand pre COVID with UA on SFO-BLR. I think they launched this on the premise that UA would be technically constrained at SFO. Post COVID, with UA flying there too, I don’t see how this works. We’ll see though.


Point taken, But I think WS 2021 maybe a better time to launch than say Spring 2021.
But even with UA launching SFO-BLR, they must be relying more on the VFR traffic more than the business IMHO...Business traffic will be nowhere near where it was in 2019. It will be interesting on how long wil these routes be sustainable for both UA and AA. I really hope they are sustainable on the long run, esp for AA.


Only way I see AA moving this up is if Microsoft or Amazon specifically requested it and guaranteed a certain amount of C seats. VFR oriented ULH will always bleed money and AA knows this.
 
JohanTally
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:16 pm

phugoid1982 wrote:
How weight restricted are the AA/UA flights from EYW to ORD. That's almost 1300 miles from a short runway and ISA+ >25 temps


Currently the AA EYW-ORD capacity is capped at 55 seats so they are blocking 21 seats with no seats blocked ORD-EYW. I believe in the past they have restricted checked bags to 1 per pax.
 
Lootess
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:08 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
Florida is expecting a lot of travelers during the holidays as Americans are expected to travel closer to home during this time period.


As Tim Russert once said, Florida! Florida! Florida!
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:45 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
CLT- LAX and CLT-LAS in the 777 has been loaded also. And CLT-LHR starts 3x a week on the 772 on 11/4


If CLT-LHR is resuming, and that's a big if, given the UK goes back into lockdown for a month on November 5th, it comes as no surprise the route will fly with a 772. This was an A330 route and with that type gone, and plenty of 777 slack, it would make sense that the route will operate, if it really does resume, on a 772.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:01 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
CLT- LAX and CLT-LAS in the 777 has been loaded also. And CLT-LHR starts 3x a week on the 772 on 11/4


If CLT-LHR is resuming, and that's a big if, given the UK goes back into lockdown for a month on November 5th, it comes as no surprise the route will fly with a 772. This was an A330 route and with that type gone, and plenty of 777 slack, it would make sense that the route will operate, if it really does resume, on a 772.

It’s flying 11/4 three days a week. Wednesday, Friday and Sunday and it’s on a 772.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:02 pm

PI4EVR wrote:
Schedules for EYW are loaded. Don't freak at some of the fares. They will be adjusted to normal levels in a few days. $900 TPA-EYW won't fly!
The flights are on Republic operated E175's and will definitely impact the service recently resumed by Silver (3M) from MCO and TPA to EYW. A pure jet over an ATR will be popular with the large AA FQTV's in both cities.
The flights on AA are morning inbounds to EYW and late evening returns with the E175 and crew overnighting in TPA and MCO. A great day trip schedule but not convenient for hotel/guesthouse/AirBnB'ers who have to check out at 12N. Go sit in a bar for 7+ hours, but I think the flights will be popular for the season.
If cruises resume in mid-December from TPA and MCO/Cape Canaveral Cruiseport an additional option for cruisers to add on EYW, and an option also for MCO/Disney visitors even for a quick day or overnight hop to EYW.

Can the runway at EYW not handle a A319?
 
rsgolfpunk
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:51 pm

AA flies the 319 into EYW and DL just replaced the 737-700 with the 319.
 
Iloveboeing
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:59 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Was looking through AA's bookings and came across these new changes:

- From December 2 through December 16, American Airlines will operate 7x daily DFW-MCO flights. Three frequencies will be on the 777-200ER.
- From December 17 through January 4, AA will operate 8x daily DFW-MCO flights. Three frequencies will be on the 777-300ER and one will be on the 777-200ER.

Additionally, AA will operate a daily TPA/MCO-EYW with the E-175 from December 17 through April 5.

That's... a lot of Florida capacity. There's other additions such as more 777s on DFW/LAX/JFK-MIA. The additional EYW adds are great - during the winter AA will fly to EYW from 9 cities (including temporary BOS).


Hasn’t this strategy been tried before? DL used to send a ton of wide bodies to Florida; they lost a bunch of money and it’s part of what pushed them into bankruptcy. I don’t think this is a good idea.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:07 pm

The thing is that AA is desperately trying to generate cashflow. AA has proven if you discount the seats enough they will fill a widebody on many domestic routes, particularly to Florida, thereby generating cash flow but losing lots of money. But yes long term it's only going to push AA into bankruptcy court.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:32 pm

PI4EVR wrote:
Schedules for EYW are loaded. Don't freak at some of the fares. They will be adjusted to normal levels in a few days. $900 TPA-EYW won't fly!
The flights are on Republic operated E175's and will definitely impact the service recently resumed by Silver (3M) from MCO and TPA to EYW. A pure jet over an ATR will be popular with the large AA FQTV's in both cities.
The flights on AA are morning inbounds to EYW and late evening returns with the E175 and crew overnighting in TPA and MCO. A great day trip schedule but not convenient for hotel/guesthouse/AirBnB'ers who have to check out at 12N. Go sit in a bar for 7+ hours, but I think the flights will be popular for the season.
If cruises resume in mid-December from TPA and MCO/Cape Canaveral Cruiseport an additional option for cruisers to add on EYW, and an option also for MCO/Disney visitors even for a quick day or overnight hop to EYW.


Looking at EYW makes me wonder if it might be one of the most over-serviced airports in the US. Having AA and Silver duke it out for the limited-demand TPA/MCO-EYW markets should be interesting and probably, unprofitable. But just wow, check out their flights! There are also EYW non-stops to DCA, ORD, EWR, DFW, ATL, MIA, FLL, CLT and PHL. Before WN gave up on EYW they even flew EYW-MSY. Could this be too much of a good thing?

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KEYW
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:33 pm

Are EYW and PSP overserved now. Yes of course but the airlines are trying to fly anything to generate cash in markets they can stimulate demand. Business flyers are not out there and they can't afford to make all their payments and fly no flights. Their fixed costs are too high. They are trying to lose as little as possible. Until business travel returns which is too far out to do nothing they have to use the planes to fly somewhere. Their cash burn rates will be even higher flying nothing and they can't put more seats on business routes the demand isn't there and won't be for a while. This has gone on for too long and will continue too long to do nothing.

I'd expect even more leisure oriented routes by all airlines.

It's the only routes they can stimulate demand. The airlines are in a terrible position and it's getting worse everyday that the recovery is further out. Businesses are really getting use to zoom calls and wfh , that is terrible for the airlines as this stretches longer the more normal that's becoming the new way to do business it's really bad for airlines. Travel budgets are coming back much smaller and pushed out longer the longer this pandemic goes on.
Last edited by slcdeltarumd11 on Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
USAirALB
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:35 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
CLT- LAX and CLT-LAS in the 777 has been loaded also. And CLT-LHR starts 3x a week on the 772 on 11/4


If CLT-LHR is resuming, and that's a big if, given the UK goes back into lockdown for a month on November 5th, it comes as no surprise the route will fly with a 772. This was an A330 route and with that type gone, and plenty of 777 slack, it would make sense that the route will operate, if it really does resume, on a 772.

AA opened a 777 base at CLT. All CLT widebody routes will exclusively be flown by 777s from this point forward.
 
N649DL
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:07 am

Boof02671 wrote:
CLT- LAX and CLT-LAS in the 777 has been loaded also. And CLT-LHR starts 3x a week on the 772 on 11/4


That's good news. There has been way too much L-US 321 on CLT-LAX for too long.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:47 am

PI4EVR wrote:
The flights are on Republic operated E175's and will definitely impact the service recently resumed by Silver (3M) from MCO and TPA to EYW. A pure jet over an ATR will be popular with the large AA FQTV's in both cities.
.


In my Westchase neighborhood we hit Key West a lot. Part of going is taking the Silver props to EYW. It just gives you that Caribbean vibe. Only way to go and a lot more fun than another sterile jet..unless it’s a G-IV.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:12 am

TVNWZ wrote:
PI4EVR wrote:
The flights are on Republic operated E175's and will definitely impact the service recently resumed by Silver (3M) from MCO and TPA to EYW. A pure jet over an ATR will be popular with the large AA FQTV's in both cities.
.


In my Westchase neighborhood we hit Key West a lot. Part of going is taking the Silver props to EYW. It just gives you that Caribbean vibe. Only way to go and a lot more fun than another sterile jet..unless it’s a G-IV.


I always considered Key West to be like taking the tacky parts of Daytona Beach (after squeezing out the crackheads and teenage runaways) and sticking it all on a tiny island. Except Key West is oppressively expensive for both food and lodging; if you can even book a room during high season. For us proletarian Floridians, we brave the drive down the Overseas Highway to harvest Florida Lobsters (in season) and usually stay up in the more affordable Upper and Middle Keys - Key West is at best a day trip. But for rich folks stuck in the harsh Winters of DCA, EWR, PHL and ORD, I guess Key West is the mythical "Margaritaville" that Jimmy Buffett used to sing about (even though he was making fun of the whole scene). All that said, I'd prefer flying 3M's ATR's to EYW from MCO rather than "Brickyard's" E175's, just for the "retro-cool factor".
 
andrew1996
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:15 am

Was this pretty much driven by passenger demand and pilot duty hours or is there also a cargo rationale?
 
USAirALB
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:18 am

When US first went back to EYW after the HP merger their first routes were EYW-MCO/FLL so this is a resumption of a way. MCO/FLL folded into CLT service eventually.
FLALEFTY wrote:
TVNWZ wrote:
PI4EVR wrote:
The flights are on Republic operated E175's and will definitely impact the service recently resumed by Silver (3M) from MCO and TPA to EYW. A pure jet over an ATR will be popular with the large AA FQTV's in both cities.
.


In my Westchase neighborhood we hit Key West a lot. Part of going is taking the Silver props to EYW. It just gives you that Caribbean vibe. Only way to go and a lot more fun than another sterile jet..unless it’s a G-IV.


I always considered Key West to be like taking the tacky parts of Daytona Beach (after squeezing out the crackheads and teenage runaways) and sticking it all on a tiny island. Except Key West is oppressively expensive for both food and lodging; if you can even book a room during high season. For us proletarian Floridians, we brave the drive down the Overseas Highway to harvest Florida Lobsters (in season) and usually stay up in the more affordable Upper and Middle Keys - Key West is at best a day trip. But for rich folks stuck in the harsh Winters of DCA, EWR, PHL and ORD, I guess Key West is the mythical "Margaritaville" that Jimmy Buffett used to sing about (even though he was making fun of the whole scene). All that said, I'd prefer flying 3M's ATR's to EYW from MCO rather than "Brickyard's" E175's, just for the "retro-cool factor".

That's interesting. I've been going to Key West since I was a kid. My parents hate places like MYR, DAB, ILM, Jersey Shore, Ocean City with a passion and we've never gotten that vibe from Key West. Sure the Sunset Festival is quite tacky and there are some tacky places, but there are genuinely nice hotels and restaurants on the island.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:24 am

That means they will see first, business, and economy class seats?
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:53 am

Miamiairport wrote:
The thing is that AA is desperately trying to generate cashflow. AA has proven if you discount the seats enough they will fill a widebody on many domestic routes, particularly to Florida, thereby generating cash flow but losing lots of money. But yes long term it's only going to push AA into bankruptcy court.

I imagine they think that keeping the widebody staff current is a priority, even with losses. It is also a competitive advantage over WN and others.
Flying skills erode quickly, and the sim, advanced as they are now, is simply no replacement for real-life experience.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:33 am

Not 100% sure on this, but I think SMF-SJD has been reduced significantly. It'll only operate on December 19, 26, and January 2 instead of Saturdays through April.

Aircraft has been changed from A319 to 738 though.
 
MrBretz
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:44 am

I remember traveling between MCO and DFW around 2000 on Delta. I think all fights were L1011s. It’s back to the good ol’ days. But now it’s on AA.
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:51 am

Ziyulu wrote:
That means they will see first, business, and economy class seats?


No. Only on MIALAX do they sell each class separately. Other domestic 777W routes both first and business cabins sold as first class.
 
Fixinthe757
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:47 am

This isn't exactly new, AA 777s have been being used for a lot of this throughout the year, flying the few that were still in the air, pretty much most of their 773s. Now that most of the 772s are back a lot of them are being used to fly cargo.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:07 pm

andrew1996 wrote:
Was this pretty much driven by passenger demand and pilot duty hours or is there also a cargo rationale?


Rush DOMESTIC cargo? To EYW, MCO or TPA? Use tag team drivers on Dallas-Orlando to get it there on your schedule in 18 hours at 1/10th the cost.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:13 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
The thing is that AA is desperately trying to generate cashflow. AA has proven if you discount the seats enough they will fill a widebody on many domestic routes, particularly to Florida, thereby generating cash flow but losing lots of money. But yes long term it's only going to push AA into bankruptcy court.


Yes, AA and WN pushed down yields in 3Q20 (DL, UA, AS, not so much) but it's not as if fares can't rise - they can be refiled what, 6x daily, and fare bucket availability changed instantly?
 
chonetsao
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Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:01 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
The thing is that AA is desperately trying to generate cashflow. AA has proven if you discount the seats enough they will fill a widebody on many domestic routes, particularly to Florida, thereby generating cash flow but losing lots of money. But yes long term it's only going to push AA into bankruptcy court.


Have you considered the fact that:
1, AA's B777 is in its last legs. The more they use it now, the more savings for the future and lower CASM it is for the journey now;
2, The parking charges for heavy widebody is... heavy. It makes more sense to fly widebody instead of narrow body if one can (while fill all the seats). So the storage charge is lower per aircraft (lower cost)
3, If the wide-body flights takes twice number of the passengers compare to the narrow body, and carries so much more cargo, the total revenue and average yield might have improved contrary to what you think.
4, Keep a certain pilot group flying continuously so no need to retain the pilots thus more savings on cost? After all have several pilot grades and groups are a complex process to keep all licence relevant.

So maybe if you take on all the hidden savings and eliminate all the hidden costs and do a calculation on actual fares you can start to see some of the logics on using widebody aircrafts?

Every airlines are trying to generate cash flow, not only AA. Each airlines need to have a strategy best suit for themselves. I am sure AA did the calculations. You may not like it, but you are not in any position to judge without seeing the numbers. I hope my 2 cents did not offend you.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:13 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
The thing is that AA is desperately trying to generate cashflow. AA has proven if you discount the seats enough they will fill a widebody on many domestic routes, particularly to Florida, thereby generating cash flow but losing lots of money. But yes long term it's only going to push AA into bankruptcy court.


Have you considered the fact that:
1, AA's B777 is in its last legs. The more they use it now, the more savings for the future and lower CASM it is for the journey now;
2, The parking charges for heavy widebody is... heavy. It makes more sense to fly widebody instead of narrow body if one can (while fill all the seats). So the storage charge is lower per aircraft (lower cost)
3, If the wide-body flights takes twice number of the passengers compare to the narrow body, and carries so much more cargo, the total revenue and average yield might have improved contrary to what you think.
4, Keep a certain pilot group flying continuously so no need to retain the pilots thus more savings on cost? After all have several pilot grades and groups are a complex process to keep all licence relevant.

So maybe if you take on all the hidden savings and eliminate all the hidden costs and do a calculation on actual fares you can start to see some of the logics on using widebody aircrafts?

Every airlines are trying to generate cash flow, not only AA. Each airlines need to have a strategy best suit for themselves. I am sure AA did the calculations. You may not like it, but you are not in any position to judge without seeing the numbers. I hope my 2 cents did not offend you.


777s in their last legs? Nonsense. The 47 772s are about 20 years old and were refurbished about 4 years ago. The 77W's are on average less than 6 years old. The future of the AA fleet (long haul) is 777/787.
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1986
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:16 pm

Fwiw, US shifted flying to the CRJ 200 (PSA) before the HP merger. Air Midwest had just parked the Beech 1900s and US was making FLL a bit of a "hub". The CRJ 200s flew for about 9 mos before shifting to the E170 due to payload restrictions on FLL/EYW - some flights out of EYW could only take 38 passengers. The E170 could (and does) take a full load.

TPA/MCO -> EYW fares are now loaded. $92.10 each way. And they are morning flights - kinda surprised, not sure anyone wants to get to EYW that early unless they are day tripping (which, believe it or not, does exist).
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:11 pm

usxguy wrote:
Fwiw, US shifted flying to the CRJ 200 (PSA) before the HP merger. Air Midwest had just parked the Beech 1900s and US was making FLL a bit of a "hub". The CRJ 200s flew for about 9 mos before shifting to the E170 due to payload restrictions on FLL/EYW - some flights out of EYW could only take 38 passengers. The E170 could (and does) take a full load.

TPA/MCO -> EYW fares are now loaded. $92.10 each way. And they are morning flights - kinda surprised, not sure anyone wants to get to EYW that early unless they are day tripping (which, believe it or not, does exist).


Actually I'm doing just that next month. Same fare from MIA and fantastic views inflight. Given its E-175 upgrades should clear.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1538
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:22 pm

Other noteworthy additions are:

MIA-BOG on 772 in December
MIA-SAP on 788 in December
MIA-PAP on 788 in December
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:57 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
Other noteworthy additions are:

MIA-BOG on 772 in December
MIA-SAP on 788 in December
MIA-PAP on 788 in December


Looks like all of them begin December 17 and run through March 27, obviously subject to change.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5273
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AA To Operate 4x Boeing 777s on DFW-MCO During Peak Winter, Adds EYW-MCO/TPA

Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:37 pm

Parking widebodies is expensive, also training is expensive. AA can probably slow their bleeding by running these widebodies on routes they can stimulate demand with low fares.

Nothing about this is to make money it's to burn cash as slow as possible. These planes are losing money until this is over , this can maybe just lose less . AA has a cash flow problem their super energetic and ambitious fall and summer schedule was too much in business markets where demand never came back. They have to try something different
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:07 pm

DFW-PVG resumes November 8 with a stopover in ICN.

Flights are 1x weekly.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american- ... na-return/

I guess China and the U.S. agreed on increasing frequencies to at least 9x weekly?
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2900
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:28 pm

American is cutting 100,000 flights in December due to low demand. Things are ugly

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... ow-demand/
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6658
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:32 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
American is cutting 100,000 flights in December due to low demand. Things are ugly

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... ow-demand/



That is the reality check this thread needs sadly
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6515
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:37 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
American is cutting 100,000 flights in December due to low demand. Things are ugly

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... ow-demand/



That is the reality check this thread needs sadly


That's 45-50% of LYs schedule, which is pretty large given they are around 20-30% smaller as an airline yoy

Image
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... ow-demand/
 
RAM787
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:00 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:15 pm

Any Idea if AA will ever launch the intended PHL-CMN or has that been totally scrapped?

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