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phllax
Posts: 702
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:53 am

Re: American adds FLL-LAX/BOS/JFK

Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:29 am

MAH4546 wrote:

They have not. In fact I think only one or two 738s have actually had PTVs removed.

The A321T fleet will keep PTVs and while I have no idea what the status is, AA has been reconsidering keeping the PTVs.


I think they got less than 5 LUS 321's into Oasis before Covid hit.
 
miaami
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:27 am

Re: American adds FLL-LAX/BOS/JFK

Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:34 am

MAH4546 wrote:

They have not. In fact I think only one or two 738s have actually had PTVs removed.

The A321T fleet will keep PTVs and while I have no idea what the status is, AA has been reconsidering keeping the PTVs.


44 of the 82 738s with PTV have been Oasis'd (PTV removed)
 
ABEguy
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: American adds FLL-LAX/BOS/JFK

Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:01 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
ABEguy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Of course there is. AA has equal or worse seat pitch on its newest planes, and is far less likely to be on time. Spirit runs like a well oiled machine.

American is even on the record as realizing they have a serious revenue problem.


Do you often find yourself struggling with numbers? Spirit main cabin seat pitch= 28". American main cabin seat pitch= 30" (yes in the MAX/OASIS). 28<30. I'm sure both have their own version of "main cabin extra", but the smallest seat you'll find is on Spirit. Anyone that continues to argue this point is just suffering from AADS. Now as for onetime. Yes, you're talking about 2019 numbers of course. Anything come to a head over at AA that year? I'll help you out. Mechanics' contract negotiations followed by deliberate work action that concluded with a court order against the union. Of course you already knew that, just willful ignorance is what I'm seeing here.


I don't struggle at all with numbers, I'm really good with them. I believed both were around 29". Thanks for correcting me.

Doesn't change anything at the end of the day. Spirit still has a far superior domestic product all around, and a far more reliable and efficient operation and your far more likely to have a pleasant and friendly crew.

American is bottom of the basement with regards to U.S. carriers with product and reliability. It didn't used to be that way, but Parker brought it down to new lows and unfortunately, for some odd reason, he's still there and ruining the airline.


You’re using 2019 performance numbers as a case for your argument. Again yes AA had a major labor conflict internally that caused this. How reliable was Sprirt in 2017 when their pilots stopped picking up open time before a judge ordered them to stop that job action? How quickly we forget, but let’s take a trip down memory lane.
https://money.cnn.com/2017/07/27/invest ... index.html

Far superior product? Which part? 28” pitch seat? No first checked bag free? Hell, No carry-on bag allowance!?!? No complementary beverage? I’ll give you one thing, you’re definitely more likely to have a polite interaction on Spirit, or anywhere else actually, than you are at AA. Look, opinions are completely subjective and you might think that Spirit is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and you’re entitled to that opinion. You’re NOT however entitled to your own facts.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:09 pm

Anyone have the start dates for DFW-EUG/FAY/SGU? I'm gonna go ahead and add them to Wikipedia.
 
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JetAwayDrew
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:58 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:19 pm

Is it just me or is anybody else as surprised as I am to see that American has quietly resumed year-round service between ORD and HNL?
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:23 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Anyone have the start dates for DFW-EUG/FAY/SGU? I'm gonna go ahead and add them to Wikipedia.


DFW-SGU March 6
DFW-EUG March 4
DFW-FAY March 4
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:36 pm

Ishrion wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
Anyone have the start dates for DFW-EUG/FAY/SGU? I'm gonna go ahead and add them to Wikipedia.


DFW-SGU March 6
DFW-EUG March 4
DFW-FAY March 4

Thanks. Is there any article with a source or was that just from aa.com? Also, they're all year round, right?
 
jplatts
Posts: 5085
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:41 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Anyone have the start dates for DFW-EUG/FAY/SGU? I'm gonna go ahead and add them to Wikipedia.


Per AA's current flight schedules, AA DFW-EUG/FAY nonstop service starts on 3/4/2021 and AA starts Saturday-only DFW-SGU nonstop service on 3/6/2021.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5085
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:42 pm

There are also some routes not served nonstop from DFW or DAL that had higher PDEW's in 2019 than DFW-EUG/FAY/SGU such as DFW-ALB/BTV/CHO/MFR/ROA/ROC/AVP/SYR.

I had previously mentioned AA possibly adding DFW-ALB/PVD/ROC/SYR nonstop service with
(a) the lack of DFW-ALB/PVD/ROC/SYR nonstop service being four of the biggest domestic holes out of DFW,
(b) enough O&D to DFW from ALB, PVD, ROC, and SYR prior to the COVID-19 pandemic to easily fill E-175 regional jets with the average PDEW of DFW-ALB/PVD/ROC/SYR being over 60 passengers per day in 2019,
(c) DFW-ALB/PVD/ROC/SYR all within the range of E-175 regional jets,
(d) DFW being a major hub for AA, and
(e) AA having nonstop service out of DFW to some destinations that AA doesn't serve nonstop from any of its East Coast hubs.

While not as big of an hole as the lack of DFW-BTV/CHO/ROA/AVP, AA adding DFW-BTV/CHO/ROA/AVP nonstop service is also a possibility with BTV, CHO, ROA, and AVP being top destinations traveled to from the Dallas/Fort Worth market that aren't currently served nonstop from DFW or DAL.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:58 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
Anyone have the start dates for DFW-EUG/FAY/SGU? I'm gonna go ahead and add them to Wikipedia.


DFW-SGU March 6
DFW-EUG March 4
DFW-FAY March 4

Thanks. Is there any article with a source or was that just from aa.com? Also, they're all year round, right?


All from aa.com

DFW-SGU looks to be seasonal as it's only operating through May 1.

DFW-EUG/FAY appear to be year-round since they're showing through the end of AA's schedule, but it's unclear if they'll suspend for some period of time.
 
x1234
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:34 pm

AA is smart using the B788 to move cargo to/from Latin America especially fresh produce. In Europe & Asia there's dedicated freighter airlines and companies dumpling a lot of capacity. There is none of that in Latin America so no wonder AA is king for cargo to/from Latin America.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3132
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:03 am

What is the rationale behind having DFW-EUG/SGU/YUM/SBP/MRY/STS while neglecting DFW-ROC/ALB/SYR/PVD/ROA?
 
SESGDL
Posts: 3046
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:59 am

jmc1975 wrote:
What is the rationale behind having DFW-EUG/SGU/YUM/SBP/MRY/STS while neglecting DFW-ROC/ALB/SYR/PVD/ROA?


Those markets are more easily served via PHL and CLT. The West is different as PHX is not a great location for most connections, hence the need for flights from DFW.

Jeremy
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:02 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
AA's placing the 787-8 on DFW-BOG in April.

Additionally, AA has now schedule four daily flights on MIA-LIM from April 2021 and onward, one of them on the 787-8. AA originally intended to increase MIA-LIM to 3x daily in 2020 up from 2x daily in 2019 but didn't due to COIVD

Overall, 2021 MIA-LIM capacity is now 102% greater than 2019.

wow! good news for Latam, I hope it continues like this


The 787 on DFW-BOG and MIA-LIM on one frequency is driven by cargo and slack in the wide body fleet. With so much TATL and much TPAC pulled down at AA, they need to send the Dreamliners somewhere and now are competing with LATAM.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:03 pm

x1234 wrote:
AA is smart using the B788 to move cargo to/from Latin America especially fresh produce. In Europe & Asia there's dedicated freighter airlines and companies dumpling a lot of capacity. There is none of that in Latin America so no wonder AA is king for cargo to/from Latin America.


Agreed, though AA has been flying cargo to and from Europe from PHL, JFK, and elsewhere for some time since the pandemic, using the 787 and 777 and that's likely to continue as well. There is a lot of slack in the wide body fleet, even with the disposal of the A330s, 767s, and the parking of many 777s.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2797
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 25, 2020 2:41 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
AA is smart using the B788 to move cargo to/from Latin America especially fresh produce. In Europe & Asia there's dedicated freighter airlines and companies dumpling a lot of capacity. There is none of that in Latin America so no wonder AA is king for cargo to/from Latin America.


Agreed, though AA has been flying cargo to and from Europe from PHL, JFK, and elsewhere for some time since the pandemic, using the 787 and 777 and that's likely to continue as well. There is a lot of slack in the wide body fleet, even with the disposal of the A330s, 767s, and the parking of many 777s.

There are only 12 of 54 772s parked and one out of 13 773 parked.

And there are no 787s parked
 
airplanedaj
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:05 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:23 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
There are only 12 of 54 772s parked and one out of 13 773 parked.

And there are no 787s parked


I can't imagine they're getting the same daily utilization as pre pandemic. They probably could store a couple more of each, but its probably more expensive to store it than to let it sit on gate for hours between flights.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2797
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:31 pm

airplanedaj wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
There are only 12 of 54 772s parked and one out of 13 773 parked.

And there are no 787s parked


I can't imagine they're getting the same daily utilization as pre pandemic. They probably could store a couple more of each, but its probably more expensive to store it than to let it sit on gate for hours between flights.

They brought them back, for example they are running CLT-MIA, CLT-LAS, CLT-LAX flights on the 777, cargo only flight to various places, 787s in PHL.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:48 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
AA is smart using the B788 to move cargo to/from Latin America especially fresh produce. In Europe & Asia there's dedicated freighter airlines and companies dumpling a lot of capacity. There is none of that in Latin America so no wonder AA is king for cargo to/from Latin America.


Agreed, though AA has been flying cargo to and from Europe from PHL, JFK, and elsewhere for some time since the pandemic, using the 787 and 777 and that's likely to continue as well. There is a lot of slack in the wide body fleet, even with the disposal of the A330s, 767s, and the parking of many 777s.

There are only 12 of 54 772s parked and one out of 13 773 parked.

And there are no 787s parked


AA has 47 772s and 20 77Ws not 54 772s and 13 77Ws. I didn't say any 787s were parked.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2797
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:59 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

Agreed, though AA has been flying cargo to and from Europe from PHL, JFK, and elsewhere for some time since the pandemic, using the 787 and 777 and that's likely to continue as well. There is a lot of slack in the wide body fleet, even with the disposal of the A330s, 767s, and the parking of many 777s.

There are only 12 of 54 772s parked and one out of 13 773 parked.

And there are no 787s parked


AA has 47 772s and 20 77Ws not 54 772s and 13 77Ws. I didn't say any 787s were parked.

You’d be wrong

Image
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2797
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:01 pm

My bad I read it wrong
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:40 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
My bad I read it wrong


No worries.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:39 pm

Whatever happened to the BOS-RDU/JAC/AUS/IND flights? Are they running?
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:18 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Whatever happened to the BOS-RDU/JAC/AUS/IND flights? Are they running?


None have begun yet.

BOS-JAC was axed before it launched.

BOS-AUS/IND/RDU all begin March 4, 2021. These routes and frequencies are likely going to change when AA loads its March schedule.
 
x1234
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:39 am

When is SYD, AKL, HKG coming back?
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 378
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:55 am

x1234 wrote:
When is SYD, AKL, HKG coming back?


SYD is already back. AKL returns in October of next year. HKG comes back in March I think.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:01 am

x1234 wrote:
When is SYD, AKL, HKG coming back?


LAX-SYD has been operating for a while now with 4x weekly passenger and 3x weekly cargo-only 777-300ER flights.

LAX-AKL resumes on October 31, 2021 and DFW-AKL launches five days after.

DFW-HKG resumes March 4, 2021
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:42 pm

x1234 wrote:
When is SYD, AKL, HKG coming back?


SYD resumed in November. HKG is supposedly resuming in March 2021, but only from DFW. Believe LAX-HKG has cut permanently. The NZ routes are due to start in Q3-2021, but that of course, will all depend on COVID and restrictions.
 
jplatts
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

If you think LAX-HKG/PVG are coming back, you have completely underestimated the level of demand drop to Asia for the next few years.


AA announced at their most recent LAX employee town hall that they are wanting to bring LAXHKG back sooner rather than later. PVG will be longer term. No plans for PEK.


One is in south america and the other 2 are in Asia. Totally different market. AA probably feels like it needs to re-assert itself in LAX now that DL is making a big play in the market. But the reality is China Region was a disaster out of LAX for AA pre-COVID and it will be even worse if they tried it again. AA's TPAC hub for the foreseeable future is DFW.

If AA C-suite thinks LAX-HKG is a market they need to be in, then they clearly haven't been to Hong Kong recently. I will stop here.


Most of the destinations in Southeast Asia and India that CX serves nonstop from HKG still have other connecting options from the U.S.

The main reasons for AA to serve HKG nonstop from the U.S. include (a) travel between the U.S. and HKG, (b) relevance to AA's FF base, and (c) corporate contracts with companies that have business travel to HKG.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2711
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:34 pm

I haven't seen this posted anywhere, and if so, my apologies, but AA seems to be starting PHX-YYZ this March. I would say resuming, but I don't think the route has been flown since the US/AA merger.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 10186
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:52 am

jplatts wrote:
The main reasons for AA to serve HKG nonstop from the U.S. include (a) travel between the U.S. and HKG, (b) relevance to AA's FF base, and (c) corporate contracts with companies that have business travel to HKG.


Delta decided they didn't need to be in HKG even before Covid, and they didn't have a HKG-based partner. AA can let CX fly LAX-HKG.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4362
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:25 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
The main reasons for AA to serve HKG nonstop from the U.S. include (a) travel between the U.S. and HKG, (b) relevance to AA's FF base, and (c) corporate contracts with companies that have business travel to HKG.


Delta decided they didn't need to be in HKG even before Covid, and they didn't have a HKG-based partner. AA can let CX fly LAX-HKG.


They probably would let CX fly it, if AA and CX were able to have a JV. JL's intra asia network sucks so making a connection in HKG is the primary way AA gets pax to Asia.
 
MLIAA
Posts: 300
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:32 am

usflyer msp wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
The main reasons for AA to serve HKG nonstop from the U.S. include (a) travel between the U.S. and HKG, (b) relevance to AA's FF base, and (c) corporate contracts with companies that have business travel to HKG.


Delta decided they didn't need to be in HKG even before Covid, and they didn't have a HKG-based partner. AA can let CX fly LAX-HKG.


They probably would let CX fly it, if AA and CX were able to have a JV. JL's intra asia network sucks so making a connection in HKG is the primary way AA gets pax to Asia.


Agreed, particularly anything south of west of HKG. I do want to emphasize the importance of AA’s new partnership with CZ, and the latter’s growing hub at Beijing-Daxing. PXK will be a huge bolster to AA’s connecting network in Asia, especially in China. Look for AA and CZ to get even closer.
 
maps4ltd
Posts: 982
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:42 am

I remember when, in late 2019, American announced LAX-CHC and DFW-AKL starting in Nov/Dec 2020. Now obviously that hasn't happened yet, but is CHC still on the docket?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26680
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:56 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
The main reasons for AA to serve HKG nonstop from the U.S. include (a) travel between the U.S. and HKG, (b) relevance to AA's FF base, and (c) corporate contracts with companies that have business travel to HKG.


Delta decided they didn't need to be in HKG even before Covid, and they didn't have a HKG-based partner. AA can let CX fly LAX-HKG.


No, they can't, since they don't have a joint venture. That doesn't mean AA needs to be on LAXHKG, but obviously they are looking at it because strategically its an important market for them to be in.

maps4ltd wrote:
I remember when, in late 2019, American announced LAX-CHC and DFW-AKL starting in Nov/Dec 2020. Now obviously that hasn't happened yet, but is CHC still on the docket?


LAXCHC is bookable starting 05-Nov-2021.

DFWAKL from 04-Nov-2021.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 25634
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:57 am

MLIAA wrote:
I do want to emphasize the importance of AA’s new partnership with CZ, and the latter’s growing hub at Beijing-Daxing. PXK will be a huge bolster to AA’s connecting network in Asia, especially in China. Look for AA and CZ to get even closer.


I would not over estimate the CZ contribution.

Connecting in China has never been the smoothest customer thing even at an uber international airport like PVG due to Chinese regulatory red tape.

Also with a mere single AA flight into PKX and a big question mark what a post-COVID CZ network will really look at PKX, one can have doubts about connectivity effectiveness.

Lastly, without open-skies, AA-CZ cant enjoy true benefits of a JV, instead limited to a glorified codeshare and FF benefits.
 
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qf789
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:53 pm

Please continue discussion in American Airlines Network Thread - 2021

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1455973

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