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apodino
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:58 pm

Ishrion wrote:
ORD-BUD will inaugurate on May 6, 2021 while ORD-PRG inaugurates on May 8, 2021.

ORD-KRK isn't showing up with them. Either delayed into June 2021 or it won't operate next year. Too early to tell of course...

DFW-AMS will be on the 789 instead of 772 upon resuming on May 6, 2021.


DFW-AMS actually has resumed, and its currently operating on a 788.

One issue with KRK is with a shorter runway, the KRK-ORD flight was likely to have weight issues, and I think network planning was made aware of this, so this is an easy flight to not start.

CMN was also going to be a challenge even with the 757. The challenge they were going to have is the 757 may not have been enough plane, but the 787-8 appears to be too much airplane. And it also appeared that this flight would be dependent on Royal Air Maroc connections on the CMN side. I don't know what booking were like before COVID-19.

PHL-KEF will be on a 321 when it starts up sometime. For some reason, RDU-LHR is getting a 77W in the fall. This seems like way too much plane for the route. Also going forward, CLT is going to be a 777 base and thus the CLT flights to Europe will mainly be 777s. PHL is already a 787 base. MIA is also opening a 787 base. So going forward, the 787s will be focused in PHL and ORD, with service in DFW, LAX and MIA. The 777s will be the focus of JFK and CLT, with service in DFW LAX and MIA.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:10 pm

apodino wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
ORD-BUD will inaugurate on May 6, 2021 while ORD-PRG inaugurates on May 8, 2021.

ORD-KRK isn't showing up with them. Either delayed into June 2021 or it won't operate next year. Too early to tell of course...

DFW-AMS will be on the 789 instead of 772 upon resuming on May 6, 2021.


DFW-AMS actually has resumed, and its currently operating on a 788.



Was referring to the next seasonal resumption in 2021.

apodino wrote:
One issue with KRK is with a shorter runway, the KRK-ORD flight was likely to have weight issues, and I think network planning was made aware of this, so this is an easy flight to not start.


Did LOT have weight issues on its KRK-ORD flight?

apodino wrote:
Also going forward, CLT is going to be a 777 base and thus the CLT flights to Europe will mainly be 777s.


More or less. Every AA long-haul flight out of CLT is currently scheduled on the 772 for the next year or so. Might be a while until the A332s return. If they return.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:14 pm

apodino wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
ORD-BUD will inaugurate on May 6, 2021 while ORD-PRG inaugurates on May 8, 2021.

ORD-KRK isn't showing up with them. Either delayed into June 2021 or it won't operate next year. Too early to tell of course...

DFW-AMS will be on the 789 instead of 772 upon resuming on May 6, 2021.

CMN was also going to be a challenge even with the 757. The challenge they were going to have is the 757 may not have been enough plane, but the 787-8 appears to be too much airplane. And it also appeared that this flight would be dependent on Royal Air Maroc connections on the CMN side. I don't know what booking were like before COVID-19.


Bookings for CMN we’re actually pretty strong for June and most of July pre COVID
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:21 pm

JP Morgan agrees with WN & AA's strategy

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... rally.html

"Given involuntary furlough restrictions & a restive headcount, the break-even cash cost of operating incremental capacity is believed to be lower than at any point in decades."

"Why wouldn't airlines fly more this summer, if the alternative is paying labor (and certain aircraft costs) to sit around doing nothing?"
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:33 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
apodino wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
ORD-BUD will inaugurate on May 6, 2021 while ORD-PRG inaugurates on May 8, 2021.

ORD-KRK isn't showing up with them. Either delayed into June 2021 or it won't operate next year. Too early to tell of course...

DFW-AMS will be on the 789 instead of 772 upon resuming on May 6, 2021.

CMN was also going to be a challenge even with the 757. The challenge they were going to have is the 757 may not have been enough plane, but the 787-8 appears to be too much airplane. And it also appeared that this flight would be dependent on Royal Air Maroc connections on the CMN side. I don't know what booking were like before COVID-19.


Bookings for CMN we’re actually pretty strong for June and most of July pre COVID


Certain days economy was already sold out!
 
MIflyer12
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:09 pm

Last year AA burned 4.537 Billion gallons of fuel; DL, 4.214; UA, 4.292 (from the respective annual reports). When the 2Q earnings come out it will be easy to see the extra costs of AA's flying.
 
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cathay747
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:15 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Last year AA burned 4.537 Billion gallons of fuel; DL, 4.214; UA, 4.292 (from the respective annual reports).


Are those figures just for 2Q also, or for the whole year?
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cathay747
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:20 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
apodino wrote:
CMN was also going to be a challenge even with the 757. The challenge they were going to have is the 757 may not have been enough plane, but the 787-8 appears to be too much airplane. And it also appeared that this flight would be dependent on Royal Air Maroc connections on the CMN side. I don't know what booking were like before COVID-19.


Bookings for CMN we’re actually pretty strong for June and most of July pre COVID


Certain days economy was already sold out!


Given this info about the PHL-CMN loads, IMHO, AT ought to give up the idea of reinstating the IAD route post-COVID and do a code-share w/AA on PHL instead; pool their resources plus get the feed on the PHL end which they (AT) obviously don't get at IAD...and then they could use a 788 and it shouldn't be too much airplane.
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usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:38 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:

Bookings for CMN we’re actually pretty strong for June and most of July pre COVID


Certain days economy was already sold out!


Given this info about the PHL-CMN loads, IMHO, AT ought to give up the idea of reinstating the IAD route post-COVID and do a code-share w/AA on PHL instead; pool their resources plus get the feed on the PHL end which they (AT) obviously don't get at IAD...and then they could use a 788 and it shouldn't be too much airplane.


AT is not going to drop IAD and all the Government/NGO traffic heading to Africa that comes with it. IAD generates enough traffic to Africa on its own that feed is not needed.
 
aerace
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:58 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

Certain days economy was already sold out!


Given this info about the PHL-CMN loads, IMHO, AT ought to give up the idea of reinstating the IAD route post-COVID and do a code-share w/AA on PHL instead; pool their resources plus get the feed on the PHL end which they (AT) obviously don't get at IAD...and then they could use a 788 and it shouldn't be too much airplane.


AT is not going to drop IAD and all the Government/NGO traffic heading to Africa that comes with it. IAD generates enough traffic to Africa on its own that feed is not needed.


I know that AA is adding at BOS, but I wondered if it were more advantageous for AT to shift from there since the AA/OW connecting opportunities at PHL are so much greater.
 
Bigant0408
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:00 pm

aerace wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
cathay747 wrote:

Given this info about the PHL-CMN loads, IMHO, AT ought to give up the idea of reinstating the IAD route post-COVID and do a code-share w/AA on PHL instead; pool their resources plus get the feed on the PHL end which they (AT) obviously don't get at IAD...and then they could use a 788 and it shouldn't be too much airplane.


AT is not going to drop IAD and all the Government/NGO traffic heading to Africa that comes with it. IAD generates enough traffic to Africa on its own that feed is not needed.


I know that AA is adding at BOS, but I wondered if it were more advantageous for AT to shift from there since the AA/OW connecting opportunities at PHL are so much greater.


I know in the Boston Thread there have been stats and comments about how AT isn’t doing so great. Some felt they wouldn’t be surprised if the route is cut. IMO for connections PHL would be better suited. AT has only been at BOS for a year so maybe they still want the route to see if the route matures.
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x1234
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:44 pm

I agree with dropping PHL-CMN and simply code-share on AT/Royal Air Maroc's services from CMN-JFK/IAD/BOS/MIA. Royal Air Maroc mainly services Northern/Central and Eastern Africa and not the #1 destination in Africa which is South Africa (CPT, JNB) which are the only high yielding cities on the continent.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:46 pm

LFs Thursday
ORD 40+%
DFW 70+%
MIA 50+%
CLT 70+%

Friday was 5-8% higher for each
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1271 ... 09216?s=20
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rjbesikof
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:27 am

MAH4546 wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

This stuff is all placeholder. We won’t really know anything until fall. Everything is up in the air excerpt Casablanca will not be happening.


How do you know that CMN is gone?


AA said its not happening because of the 757 retirements. Won't work on a bigger plane.


What other long haul routes do you think will be eliminated permanently?
 
KFTG
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:41 am

"Permanent" is not a valid word in airline world. Nothing is permanent.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:06 pm

LGA-SRQ starts July 11, Saturday only
https://www.sarasotamagazine.com/news-a ... rq-airport

I thought they had ran this before, but I guess not
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Miamiairport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:27 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
LGA-SRQ starts July 11, Saturday only
https://www.sarasotamagazine.com/news-a ... rq-airport

I thought they had ran this before, but I guess not


Both LAA and LUS have run LGA/TPA before. I can't remember if any of them ever tried LGA/RSW. Since around 2005 it seems outside of MIA AA has never done much more from NYC to Florida other than now a single flight to PBI and MCO (PBI might have been seasonal). AA ran JFK/TPA for awhile eventually turning it over to regional flying before the route was pulled altogether. JFK/MCO also eventually got pulled.
 
717atOGG
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:36 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
LGA-SRQ starts July 11, Saturday only
https://www.sarasotamagazine.com/news-a ... rq-airport

I thought they had ran this before, but I guess not


Both LAA and LUS have run LGA/TPA before. I can't remember if any of them ever tried LGA/RSW. Since around 2005 it seems outside of MIA AA has never done much more from NYC to Florida other than now a single flight to PBI and MCO (PBI might have been seasonal). AA ran JFK/TPA for awhile eventually turning it over to regional flying before the route was pulled altogether. JFK/MCO also eventually got pulled.

LGA-RSW was tried briefly on an E-190 once weekly in March before air travel demand imploded; I'm not sure if/when AA or US ran it previously.
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:03 pm

717atOGG wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
LGA-SRQ starts July 11, Saturday only
https://www.sarasotamagazine.com/news-a ... rq-airport

I thought they had ran this before, but I guess not


Both LAA and LUS have run LGA/TPA before. I can't remember if any of them ever tried LGA/RSW. Since around 2005 it seems outside of MIA AA has never done much more from NYC to Florida other than now a single flight to PBI and MCO (PBI might have been seasonal). AA ran JFK/TPA for awhile eventually turning it over to regional flying before the route was pulled altogether. JFK/MCO also eventually got pulled.

LGA-RSW was tried briefly on an E-190 once weekly in March before air travel demand imploded; I'm not sure if/when AA or US ran it previously.


Right on queue, "On July 7, American Airlines will add a route to Washington, D.C., (DCA) and on July 11, it will add a route to New York (LaGuardia), which will only operate on Saturdays"
https://www.nbc-2.com/story/42275253/sp ... sw-airport

Looks like it will be a B738 as well, TPA will be Saturday only A321
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jplatts
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:42 pm

Here are the Q3 2019 PDEW's of some top domestic routes that AA doesn't currently serve nonstop from DFW:
DFW/DAL-PVD - 78
DFW/DAL-SYR - 69
DFW/DAL-ALB - 68
DFW/DAL-ROC - 67

AA adding nonstop service to ALB, PVD, SYR, and ROC out of DFW are possibilities once demand for domestic air travel returns with
(a) ALB, PVD, SYR, and ROC being 4 of the top domestic destinations without nonstop service out of DFW or DAL,
(b) DFW being a major hub for AA,
(c) AA having nonstop service out of DFW to destinations that AA doesn't serve nonstop from any of its East Coast hubs,
(d) ALB, PVD, SYR, and ROC being 4 of the largest U.S. markets that are not currently served nonstop from either DFW or DAL,
(d) AA having plans to further expand its DFW hub prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

AA adding DFW-ALB/ROC/SYR nonstop service using E-175 regional jets is also a possibility as AA still operates E-175 regional jets on its MIA-MSP route, which is longer than DFW-ALB, DFW-ROC, or DFW-SYR.
 
Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:59 pm

jplatts wrote:
AA adding DFW-ALB/ROC/SYR nonstop service using E-175 regional jets is also a possibility as AA still operates E-175 regional jets on its MIA-MSP route, which is longer than DFW-ALB, DFW-ROC, or DFW-SYR.


Thanks for the info. FWIW, AA’s operating their E-175 on DFW-YYC, which is 6 miles shorter than DFW-PVD.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:13 pm

AA has a sketchy past on NY to Florida

LGA PBI MCO FLL and TPA were all flown. JAX on Eagle. DAB on Eagle. This peaked post TWA merger.

JFK saw MCO and TPA

MCO was flown concurrently from both at one point.

None of it was consistent or long lasting.

Miami obviously flown from both consistently.

Seasonal PBI from LGA consistently.

Everything else has been a crapshoot

US Air in the 90s had a whole Florida operation from LGA

Most of it was drawndown by the 2000s. There was a brief MetroJer attempt

Long story short, any NY to Florida run by Douggie and company beyond MIA, a token MCO, and a seasonal PBI is Dead on Arrival
 
Varsity1
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:18 pm

AA offers a ton of connectivity to FL through CLT.
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Miamiairport
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:27 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
AA offers a ton of connectivity to FL through CLT.


Yes but does a business traveler or high end traveler want to deal with a connection on what would be a 3 hour flight, particularly from delay prone NYC airports (granted reduced flying during COVID-19 has lessen that problem). Over the years FL has gone from a leisure destination to one of business.
 
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STT757
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:53 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
AA has a sketchy past on NY to Florida

LGA PBI MCO FLL and TPA were all flown. JAX on Eagle. DAB on Eagle. This peaked post TWA merger.

JFK saw MCO and TPA

MCO was flown concurrently from both at one point.

None of it was consistent or long lasting.

Miami obviously flown from both consistently.

Seasonal PBI from LGA consistently.

Everything else has been a crapshoot

US Air in the 90s had a whole Florida operation from LGA

Most of it was drawndown by the 2000s. There was a brief MetroJer attempt

Long story short, any NY to Florida run by Douggie and company beyond MIA, a token MCO, and a seasonal PBI is Dead on Arrival


In 1992 US Air flew LGA-MCO, RSW, FLL, MIA, TPA and EWR-MCO.

http://www.departedflights.com/US120292p26.html
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USAirALB
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:10 pm

jplatts wrote:
Here are the Q3 2019 PDEW's of some top domestic routes that AA doesn't currently serve nonstop from DFW:
DFW/DAL-PVD - 78
DFW/DAL-SYR - 69
DFW/DAL-ALB - 68
DFW/DAL-ROC - 67

AA adding nonstop service to ALB, PVD, SYR, and ROC out of DFW are possibilities once demand for domestic air travel returns with
(a) ALB, PVD, SYR, and ROC being 4 of the top domestic destinations without nonstop service out of DFW or DAL,
(b) DFW being a major hub for AA,
(c) AA having nonstop service out of DFW to destinations that AA doesn't serve nonstop from any of its East Coast hubs,
(d) ALB, PVD, SYR, and ROC being 4 of the largest U.S. markets that are not currently served nonstop from either DFW or DAL,
(d) AA having plans to further expand its DFW hub prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

AA adding DFW-ALB/ROC/SYR nonstop service using E-175 regional jets is also a possibility as AA still operates E-175 regional jets on its MIA-MSP route, which is longer than DFW-ALB, DFW-ROC, or DFW-SYR.

It's always puzzled me that these medium-sized Northeastern markets have lacked service to DFW (and MIA for that matter).

Before 9/11, AA ran both BUF-DFW with a S80, and although I cannot find it in the schedules anywhere, I swear they did PVD-DFW with a S80 at one point or another.

After 9/11 in the mid-2000s, AA resumed BUF-DFW and started DFW-ROC/SYR/MDT with CR7s. I remember hearing the station manager for ALB state that the company wanted to start ALB-DFW but they could not as it was outside of the CR7s published range. AA eventually dropped all of these Northeastern routes ex DFW during the financial crisis, and ended up closing both the ALB and PVD stations entirely...goes to show how weak AA was in the Northeast before the US merger.

All should be good candidates for E175 service ex DFW once domestic air travel returns.
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PVD757
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:46 pm

AA ran PVD-DFW from November 2003 through March 2006. The total load factor for that period was 80% which was higher than both BDL (78%) and BOS (75%). Summer loads were Around 85% most months. Loads don’t equal profits but it’s at least interesting data.
 
FSDan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:24 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
AA offers a ton of connectivity to FL through CLT.


Yes but does a business traveler or high end traveler want to deal with a connection on what would be a 3 hour flight, particularly from delay prone NYC airports (granted reduced flying during COVID-19 has lessen that problem). Over the years FL has gone from a leisure destination to one of business.


AA doesn't have the slot portfolio in NYC to be everything to everyone. In chasing the business traveler, they've been happy to keep frequencies high to markets like LAX, ORD, DCA, and BOS while serving far fewer overall destinations than their biggest competitors.

And while there's plenty of business traffic to Florida, the leisure component still makes up the lion's share, especially to destinations like PBI and RSW.
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jplatts
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:09 pm

FSDan wrote:
AA doesn't have the slot portfolio in NYC to be everything to everyone. In chasing the business traveler, they've been happy to keep frequencies high to markets like LAX, ORD, DCA, and BOS while serving far fewer overall destinations than their biggest competitors.


One of the main reasons why AA has high frequencies to LAX, ORD, and DCA from NYC is that LAX, ORD, and DCA are all hubs for AA. Another reason why AA has high frequencies on LGA-ORD and JFK-LAX is due to the large amount of O&D traffic that exists to Chicago and Los Angeles from NYC.

Here are the Q3 2019 PDEWs for NYC-CHI, NYC-WAS, and NYC-LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA/ONT:
NYC-LAX/BUR/LGB/SNA/ONT - 7295 passengers/day
NYC-CHI - 6262 passengers/day
NYC-WAS - 1185 passengers/day

AA also has some corporate contracts in Chicago, Los Angeles, and Washington, D.C. to support high frequencies to NYC from LAX, ORD, and DCA.

AA also has some connecting feed on its LGA-ORD and LGA-DCA nonstop flights from some contiguous U.S. destinations that have no nonstop service to NYC on AA to support high frequencies on its LGA-ORD and LGA-DCA nonstop routes.

AA also has some international connecting feed on both ends of the JFK-LAX route to support high frequencies on its JFK-LAX route.
 
Brickell305
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:15 pm

FSDan wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
AA offers a ton of connectivity to FL through CLT.


Yes but does a business traveler or high end traveler want to deal with a connection on what would be a 3 hour flight, particularly from delay prone NYC airports (granted reduced flying during COVID-19 has lessen that problem). Over the years FL has gone from a leisure destination to one of business.


AA doesn't have the slot portfolio in NYC to be everything to everyone. In chasing the business traveler, they've been happy to keep frequencies high to markets like LAX, ORD, DCA, and BOS while serving far fewer overall destinations than their biggest competitors.

And while there's plenty of business traffic to Florida, the leisure component still makes up the lion's share, especially to destinations like PBI and RSW.

And on top of that, if we're talking Florida business markets, MIA is the primary one.
 
bigb
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:05 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:

Yes but does a business traveler or high end traveler want to deal with a connection on what would be a 3 hour flight, particularly from delay prone NYC airports (granted reduced flying during COVID-19 has lessen that problem). Over the years FL has gone from a leisure destination to one of business.


AA doesn't have the slot portfolio in NYC to be everything to everyone. In chasing the business traveler, they've been happy to keep frequencies high to markets like LAX, ORD, DCA, and BOS while serving far fewer overall destinations than their biggest competitors.

And while there's plenty of business traffic to Florida, the leisure component still makes up the lion's share, especially to destinations like PBI and RSW.

And on top of that, if we're talking Florida business markets, MIA is the primary one.


What a lot of folks need to realize is that AA trimmed a lot of fat off in a highly competitive environment of LGA and JFK. AA doesn’t need to be the size of Delta or B6 to have a good offering to the NYC market.
 
tphuang
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:36 pm

bigb wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
FSDan wrote:

AA doesn't have the slot portfolio in NYC to be everything to everyone. In chasing the business traveler, they've been happy to keep frequencies high to markets like LAX, ORD, DCA, and BOS while serving far fewer overall destinations than their biggest competitors.

And while there's plenty of business traffic to Florida, the leisure component still makes up the lion's share, especially to destinations like PBI and RSW.

And on top of that, if we're talking Florida business markets, MIA is the primary one.


What a lot of folks need to realize is that AA trimmed a lot of fat off in a highly competitive environment of LGA and JFK. AA doesn’t need to be the size of Delta or B6 to have a good offering to the NYC market.

well, if AA did in fact return 70 JFK slots, then they don't have a good offering to the NYC market.
 
bigb
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:58 am

tphuang wrote:
bigb wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
And on top of that, if we're talking Florida business markets, MIA is the primary one.


What a lot of folks need to realize is that AA trimmed a lot of fat off in a highly competitive environment of LGA and JFK. AA doesn’t need to be the size of Delta or B6 to have a good offering to the NYC market.

well, if AA did in fact return 70 JFK slots, then they don't have a good offering to the NYC market.


No one knows who those 70 slots came from....
 
LONGisland89
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:04 am

I flew AA RSW-LGA in 2003 on an MD-80. I believe it was seasonal on weekends.
 
FSDan
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:29 am

bigb wrote:
tphuang wrote:
bigb wrote:

What a lot of folks need to realize is that AA trimmed a lot of fat off in a highly competitive environment of LGA and JFK. AA doesn’t need to be the size of Delta or B6 to have a good offering to the NYC market.

well, if AA did in fact return 70 JFK slots, then they don't have a good offering to the NYC market.


No one knows who those 70 slots came from....


True, but if it really was all from one airline, it's hard to imagine it being anyone else but AA. If AA did return that many, I think they'd have something like 40-45 left, which would be enough to keep serving SFO, LAX, PHX, and LHR at the current frequencies, a few daily flights each to DFW/ORD/MIA/CLT, and maybe a few other long haul destinations like EZE, GRU, BCN, CDG, and MXP.

I want to say they had 113 slots before (I could be off by a few...). If they were down to 43 now, they could offer something like the following:
SFO x5
LAX x10
PHX x5
DFW x3
ORD x1
MIA x5
CLT x5
EZE x1
GRU x1
LHR x4
BCN x1
CDG x1
MXP x1

Maybe switch out BCN for GIG in the winter months, and optionally serve some high end leisure markets like BDA, SXM, SKB, and ANU with Saturday-only service (when domestic frequencies are reduced).

They'd additionally have JV partner service to DUB (EI), LHR (BA), MAD (IB), BCN (LV), HEL (AY), HND (JL), and Oz (one-stop on QF), as well as alliance partner service to CMN (AT), DOH (QR), and HKG (CX). From LGA, they'd offer leading/competitive frequencies to DFW, ORD, MIA, CLT, DCA, and BOS, and decent frequencies to the likes of YYZ, STL, BNA, ATL, RDU, and PIT. All in all, still not a bad offering for NYC business customers, particularly in the important Finance and Entertainment industries.
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Ishrion
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:40 am

FSDan wrote:
They'd additionally have JV partner service to DUB (EI),


Pretty sure Aer Lingus isn’t in the TATL JV yet, so speaking of it, has anyone heard an update or something?
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:00 pm

FSDan wrote:
bigb wrote:
tphuang wrote:
well, if AA did in fact return 70 JFK slots, then they don't have a good offering to the NYC market.


No one knows who those 70 slots came from....


True, but if it really was all from one airline, it's hard to imagine it being anyone else but AA. If AA did return that many, I think they'd have something like 40-45 left, which would be enough to keep serving SFO, LAX, PHX, and LHR at the current frequencies, a few daily flights each to DFW/ORD/MIA/CLT, and maybe a few other long haul destinations like EZE, GRU, BCN, CDG, and MXP.

I want to say they had 113 slots before (I could be off by a few...). If they were down to 43 now, they could offer something like the following:
SFO x5
LAX x10
PHX x5
DFW x3
ORD x1
MIA x5
CLT x5
EZE x1
GRU x1
LHR x4
BCN x1
CDG x1
MXP x1

Maybe switch out BCN for GIG in the winter months, and optionally serve some high end leisure markets like BDA, SXM, SKB, and ANU with Saturday-only service (when domestic frequencies are reduced).

They'd additionally have JV partner service to DUB (EI), LHR (BA), MAD (IB), BCN (LV), HEL (AY), HND (JL), and Oz (one-stop on QF), as well as alliance partner service to CMN (AT), DOH (QR), and HKG (CX). From LGA, they'd offer leading/competitive frequencies to DFW, ORD, MIA, CLT, DCA, and BOS, and decent frequencies to the likes of YYZ, STL, BNA, ATL, RDU, and PIT. All in all, still not a bad offering for NYC business customers, particularly in the important Finance and Entertainment industries.


I could see AA adding more than 43 to JFK in the future. AA would probably still like to have a stake in the Caribbean market. (SKB, SXM, GCM, STT, MBJ, ANU, etc). B6 and DL are the competitors at JFK for those flights. Unlikely, but AA could use LGA for those Caribbean flights on Saturdays

I also could see AA adding back flights to LAS and SAN. I think AA is actually flying direct to LAS in July.

The New T8 will encourage a strong comeback at JFK for AA. It could also mean a strong dyad between AA and AS.
 
dfw88
Posts: 111
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:10 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
I could see AA adding more than 43 to JFK in the future. AA would probably still like to have a stake in the Caribbean market. (SKB, SXM, GCM, STT, MBJ, ANU, etc). B6 and DL are the competitors at JFK for those flights. Unlikely, but AA could use LGA for those Caribbean flights on Saturdays


LGA doesn't have Customs and Border Patrol, so no international flights allowed unless they come from countries with Preclearance facilities. So unless it's NAS, FPO, BDA, or AUA there's no way it's happening (or unless more Caribbean airports build Preclearance facilities). Though STT, STX, and SJU are domestic, so I suppose those could happen on Saturday.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:28 pm

Didn't AA abandon several JFK to Caribbean markets (SJU, STT, PAP)? It seems as though AA threw in the towel against B6. I don't see AA going back into direct flights out of JFK and instead funneling traffic through MIA or CLT.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3152
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:01 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Didn't AA abandon several JFK to Caribbean markets (SJU, STT, PAP)? It seems as though AA threw in the towel against B6. I don't see AA going back into direct flights out of JFK and instead funneling traffic through MIA or CLT.


AA certainly rolled over to B6 in the big VFR markets. They used to serve STI, SDQ, and SJU with multiple daily A300s even into the late 2000s. They've also given up on markets like PLS, AUA, PAP, and BGI. But they've been pretty consistent to BDA, ANU, etc. over the years, and were recently adding/bringing back destinations like GCM and MBJ. STT and SXM have been served for a long time, although they dropped to less than daily at some point. I don't remember when SKB was added.

Bottom line, AA definitely won't be back in JFK-Caribbean VFR markets. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see them hold out with at least Saturday-only service to higher end leisure destinations (heck, they were even adding flights to those types of destinations from non-hub BOS pre-COVID).
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Miamiairport
Posts: 494
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:08 pm

Big announcement today about NY/NY/CT requiring a 14 day quarantine for flyers from the state of FL (among other states such as TX and SC). Although most of this is probably "self policing" I do see it putting a big crimp on AA and FL. Lots of paxs going to FL come from these 3 states. I expect what were the packed flights between MIA and EWR/LGA/JFK to quickly become empty again. This could also curtail demand to FL from other areas.
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 5030
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:22 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Big announcement today about NY/NY/CT requiring a 14 day quarantine for flyers from the state of FL (among other states such as TX and SC). Although most of this is probably "self policing" I do see it putting a big crimp on AA and FL. Lots of paxs going to FL come from these 3 states. I expect what were the packed flights between MIA and EWR/LGA/JFK to quickly become empty again. This could also curtail demand to FL from other areas.


Only daily AA nonstops from NYC-Florida are to MIA, the rest are Saturday only except for LGA-MCO which will be 1x daily in July.

Probably more impact to the ULCC carriers who are jumping in with a lot of capacity on NYC-Florida next month, ie NK
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
tphuang
Posts: 4841
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:25 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Big announcement today about NY/NY/CT requiring a 14 day quarantine for flyers from the state of FL (among other states such as TX and SC). Although most of this is probably "self policing" I do see it putting a big crimp on AA and FL. Lots of paxs going to FL come from these 3 states. I expect what were the packed flights between MIA and EWR/LGA/JFK to quickly become empty again. This could also curtail demand to FL from other areas.


Only daily AA nonstops from NYC-Florida are to MIA, the rest are Saturday only except for LGA-MCO which will be 1x daily in July.

Probably more impact to the ULCC carriers who are jumping in with a lot of capacity on NYC-Florida next month, ie NK


Well, it does hit arizona and texas also. And I'm there are a lot of people doing norhteast-CLT-Florida.

NK is probably hurt worse here, I'd agree.
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1221
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:46 pm

tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Big announcement today about NY/NY/CT requiring a 14 day quarantine for flyers from the state of FL (among other states such as TX and SC). Although most of this is probably "self policing" I do see it putting a big crimp on AA and FL. Lots of paxs going to FL come from these 3 states. I expect what were the packed flights between MIA and EWR/LGA/JFK to quickly become empty again. This could also curtail demand to FL from other areas.


Only daily AA nonstops from NYC-Florida are to MIA, the rest are Saturday only except for LGA-MCO which will be 1x daily in July.

Probably more impact to the ULCC carriers who are jumping in with a lot of capacity on NYC-Florida next month, ie NK


Well, it does hit arizona and texas also. And I'm there are a lot of people doing norhteast-CLT-Florida.

NK is probably hurt worse here, I'd agree.


Does all this apply for passengers CONNECTING through TX/NC/FL/AZ or just O/D passengers? If so...that would be a massive PITA for American. Most hub traffic would be subject to quarantine.
-Andrés Juánez
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:25 pm

\In the case of Texas (or at least DFW) the quarantine only applied if you were ending at DFW. If your BP had a connecting flight you were just sent on your way. Does the ruling exempt connecting flights?
 
illinicmi
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:21 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:26 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Only daily AA nonstops from NYC-Florida are to MIA, the rest are Saturday only except for LGA-MCO which will be 1x daily in July.

Probably more impact to the ULCC carriers who are jumping in with a lot of capacity on NYC-Florida next month, ie NK


Well, it does hit arizona and texas also. And I'm there are a lot of people doing norhteast-CLT-Florida.

NK is probably hurt worse here, I'd agree.


Does all this apply for passengers CONNECTING through TX/NC/FL/AZ or just O/D passengers? If so...that would be a massive PITA for American. Most hub traffic would be subject to quarantine.


I don't think connections will matter. The New York Times article I read basically admits it's largely symbolic, so it really doesn't amount to much more that political posturing. Probably revenge for some of those states quarantining NY residents earlier.
 
TWA85
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:06 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
bigb wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
And on top of that, if we're talking Florida business markets, MIA is the primary one.


What a lot of folks need to realize is that AA trimmed a lot of fat off in a highly competitive environment of LGA and JFK. AA doesn’t need to be the size of Delta or B6 to have a good offering to the NYC market.

well, if AA did in fact return 70 JFK slots, then they don't have a good offering to the NYC market.



I haven't heard anything about AA returning JFK JFK slots. When was this announced and who announced it?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26101
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:18 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Big announcement today about NY/NY/CT requiring a 14 day quarantine for flyers from the state of FL (among other states such as TX and SC). Although most of this is probably "self policing" I do see it putting a big crimp on AA and FL. Lots of paxs going to FL come from these 3 states. I expect what were the packed flights between MIA and EWR/LGA/JFK to quickly become empty again. This could also curtail demand to FL from other areas.


Unenforceable quarantine restrictions likely to have little effect on leisure demand.
a.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:11 pm

AA Loads yesterday, incredibly high given the circumstances, and the cap of 85%

CLT 76% (international only 51%)
ORD 72% (international only 31%)
DFW 75% (international only 45%)

Tuesdays are reduced schedules however
https://twitter.com/xJonNYC/status/1275907848594128896
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
maverick4002
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:11 am

Miamiairport wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Big announcement today about NY/NY/CT requiring a 14 day quarantine for flyers from the state of FL (among other states such as TX and SC). Although most of this is probably "self policing" I do see it putting a big crimp on AA and FL. Lots of paxs going to FL come from these 3 states. I expect what were the packed flights between MIA and EWR/LGA/JFK to quickly become empty again. This could also curtail demand to FL from other areas.


Unenforceable quarantine restrictions likely to have little effect on leisure demand.


Based upon some of the sheer stupidity I see people doing base upon the fear mongering drummed up by MSM (particularly CNN) I think it will cramp leisure demand. Time will tell. The FL Governor is being pressured to put some restrictions back and the Miami Beach mayor is so stupid he tried to keep Miami Beach closed until a vaccine was introduced. Never under estimate politicians making stupid decisions based upon CNN hype and the people following right along. Seeing people jogging in the Miami 95 degree heat with a mask on just boggles my imagination.

If CNN (and other news outlet including blogs) gives the impression people are going to be forced to stay home for 14 days after visiting FL my belief in the intelligence of the human race is so low I see the sheep going right along.


So you dont think the virus is a treat? You dont think people should wear masks to at least minimize the potential of the spread?

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