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PHXWRLD
Topic Author
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Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:43 am

It is the only day flight from the entire US to Deep South America outside of FL. Having a day flight must depress their yields. Can they seriously not find an extra 763 to make this a night flight?
 
cedarjet
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:49 am

Maybe there’s some demand for a day flight. I for one would prefer it
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hoons90
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:54 am

It looks like the day flight is in the opposite direction, from GIG to JFK.

Either way, the flight operates for all of two months during the Southern Summer season, so it is probably geared towards leisure traffic anyways.
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SA280
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:40 pm

GIG is not as business-heavy as GRU and DL's seasonal flight only confirms that.

So, the marginal reduction in the PRASM might be easily overcome by the reduction in CASM due to the better ownership cost allocation.
 
tpaewr
Posts: 724
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:32 pm

CO did the same thing EWR-GIG for a while

It greatly improves utilization not having it sit all day long in SA.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:39 pm

This is mostly a leisure route, not a business one, and so rather than having the plane sit at GIG all day, it lands in the morning and departs again. Better utilization.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:48 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
This is mostly a leisure route, not a business one, and so rather than having the plane sit at GIG all day, it lands in the morning and departs again. Better utilization.


So why does AA operate their JFK-GIG-JFK flights as double redeyes?
 
jakeroberts212
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:30 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
This is mostly a leisure route, not a business one, and so rather than having the plane sit at GIG all day, it lands in the morning and departs again. Better utilization.


So why does AA operate their JFK-GIG-JFK flights as double redeyes?


Why does AA do half the things they do?? Are we seriously using AA as a measure of what makes a sound business decision now?
 
MAH4546
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:54 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
This is mostly a leisure route, not a business one, and so rather than having the plane sit at GIG all day, it lands in the morning and departs again. Better utilization.


So why does AA operate their JFK-GIG-JFK flights as double redeyes?


Because it’s stronger and more established in Brazil?
a.
 
peak86
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:08 pm

PHXWRLD wrote:
It is the only day flight from the entire US to Deep South America outside of FL. Having a day flight must depress their yields. Can they seriously not find an extra 763 to make this a night flight?


Maybe I'm missing something - where are you seeing this? The JFK-GIG flight operating from now thru early March is clearly a redeye, departing JFK at 6:40pm and arriving Rio at 6:30am

Edit: Got it, you're saying the GIG-JFK direction is daytime...
 
Antarius
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:20 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
This is mostly a leisure route, not a business one, and so rather than having the plane sit at GIG all day, it lands in the morning and departs again. Better utilization.


So why does AA operate their JFK-GIG-JFK flights as double redeyes?


AA has a much larger and established south American presence and operation. They likely get a lot of the premium traffic, which justifies having a 777 sit on the ground all day.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
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chepos
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:31 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
This is mostly a leisure route, not a business one, and so rather than having the plane sit at GIG all day, it lands in the morning and departs again. Better utilization.


So why does AA operate their JFK-GIG-JFK flights as double redeyes?


Why does AA do half the things they do?? Are we seriously using AA as a measure of what makes a sound business decision now?


A good chunk of Deep south destinations out of the US/Canada operate as red eyes, apparently it is the favored schedule based on most of how these flights have operated for years. Look at DL’s ATL-Deep South-ATL, they are all double red eyes, this is not AA doing something crazy and out of the norm.


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cokepopper
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:44 pm

hoons90 wrote:
It looks like the day flight is in the opposite direction, from GIG to JFK.

Exactly. The title of this post is not correct
Very misleading.
Maybe the mods can fix it.
 
SA280
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:18 pm

Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:23 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
This is mostly a leisure route, not a business one, and so rather than having the plane sit at GIG all day, it lands in the morning and departs again. Better utilization.


So why does AA operate their JFK-GIG-JFK flights as double redeyes?

AA has a year-round operation. They do need red-eye in both legs, especially for in low-season.

DL is operating only during Holidays period in Brazil. They can have one daylight leg and will still get a better PRASM than if they had both red-eyes but year-round. Just because there is huge leisure demand during this time of the year.
 
SA280
Posts: 36
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:24 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
This is mostly a leisure route, not a business one, and so rather than having the plane sit at GIG all day, it lands in the morning and departs again. Better utilization.


So why does AA operate their JFK-GIG-JFK flights as double redeyes?

AA has a year-round operation. They do need red-eye in both legs, especially for low-season.

DL is operating only during Holidays period in Brazil. They can have one daylight leg and will still get a better PRASM than if they had both red-eyes but year-round. Just because there is huge leisure demand during this time of the year.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2076
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:53 pm

SA280 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
This is mostly a leisure route, not a business one, and so rather than having the plane sit at GIG all day, it lands in the morning and departs again. Better utilization.


So why does AA operate their JFK-GIG-JFK flights as double redeyes?

AA has a year-round operation. They do need red-eye in both legs, especially for low-season.

DL is operating only during Holidays period in Brazil. They can have one daylight leg and will still get a better PRASM than if they had both red-eyes but year-round. Just because there is huge leisure demand during this time of the year.


AA does not operate JFK-GIG year round. It was converted to seasonal service. It used to be year-round.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:56 pm

chepos wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

So why does AA operate their JFK-GIG-JFK flights as double redeyes?


Why does AA do half the things they do?? Are we seriously using AA as a measure of what makes a sound business decision now?


A good chunk of Deep south destinations out of the US/Canada operate as red eyes, apparently it is the favored schedule based on most of how these flights have operated for years. Look at DL’s ATL-Deep South-ATL, they are all double red eyes, this is not AA doing something crazy and out of the norm.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


US/Canada to Deep South America routes are indeed mostly overnight red-eyes in both directions because the market (business) prefers it. Business travelers do not lose a day spent on a plane in daylight hours flying what are typically between 9 and 11 hours of stage length. Further, the US carriers, and AA specifically, leverage the downtime for their jets in EZE and GRU for light maintenance, deep cleaning, etc...AA has maintenance and crew base at GRU and crew base at EZE (not sure if they have maintenance there too).
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:58 pm

Antarius wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
This is mostly a leisure route, not a business one, and so rather than having the plane sit at GIG all day, it lands in the morning and departs again. Better utilization.


So why does AA operate their JFK-GIG-JFK flights as double redeyes?


AA has a much larger and established south American presence and operation. They likely get a lot of the premium traffic, which justifies having a 777 sit on the ground all day.


Of the US3, yes, AA is the biggest to Latin America in terms of market share, followed by United, then Delta. But again, almost all US-Deep South America flights operate overnight in both directions except for the GIG-JFK segment on Delta and AA has daylight service from MIA to Brazil and seasonally, I think (or they used to when the Argentine economy was in better shape), EZE. The COR-MIA route is also a daylight route (AA) and it is being closed down.
 
dcajet
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:17 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
chepos wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:

Why does AA do half the things they do?? Are we seriously using AA as a measure of what makes a sound business decision now?


A good chunk of Deep south destinations out of the US/Canada operate as red eyes, apparently it is the favored schedule based on most of how these flights have operated for years. Look at DL’s ATL-Deep South-ATL, they are all double red eyes, this is not AA doing something crazy and out of the norm.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


US/Canada to Deep South America routes are indeed mostly overnight red-eyes in both directions because the market (business) prefers it. Business travelers do not lose a day spent on a plane in daylight hours flying what are typically between 9 and 11 hours of stage length. Further, the US carriers, and AA specifically, leverage the downtime for their jets in EZE and GRU for light maintenance, deep cleaning, etc...AA has maintenance and crew base at GRU and crew base at EZE (not sure if they have maintenance there too).


AA does not have a crew base at GRU; EZE has one (the largest in the region), and so do SCL, LIM & BOG. AA has maintenance operations at GRU, EZE & SCL, with GRU having its own dedicated hangar. At EZE they have a small one that is used as a warehouse.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:25 pm

dcajet wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
chepos wrote:

A good chunk of Deep south destinations out of the US/Canada operate as red eyes, apparently it is the favored schedule based on most of how these flights have operated for years. Look at DL’s ATL-Deep South-ATL, they are all double red eyes, this is not AA doing something crazy and out of the norm.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


US/Canada to Deep South America routes are indeed mostly overnight red-eyes in both directions because the market (business) prefers it. Business travelers do not lose a day spent on a plane in daylight hours flying what are typically between 9 and 11 hours of stage length. Further, the US carriers, and AA specifically, leverage the downtime for their jets in EZE and GRU for light maintenance, deep cleaning, etc...AA has maintenance and crew base at GRU and crew base at EZE (not sure if they have maintenance there too).


AA does not have a crew base at GRU; EZE has one (the largest in the region), and so do SCL, LIM & BOG. AA has maintenance operations at GRU, EZE & SCL, with GRU having its own dedicated hangar. At EZE they have a small one that is used as a warehouse.


Thanks...
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Why is Delta’s JFK-GIG flight a day flight?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:26 pm

AC’s new northern winter seasonal YUL-GRU-YUL is also timed like DL’s JFK-GIG-JFK.

That is, red eye down, daytime return.

As a few other have said, these flights cater to the leisure crowd, and a quick turnaround helps with aircraft utilization.

AC96 YUL1835-0730+1GRU
AC97 GRU0940-1645YUL
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