Boeing 737MAX Grounding News and Reference Thread [Ungrounded by FAA 18NOV2020]

lightsaber · Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:18 pm

This is a reference thread. Please post a link with a quote and a short comment.

KarlB737 · Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:20 pm

Courtesy: Aviation Week

Airlines Gaining Confidence In 737 MAX Service Return Timelines

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport-month/airlines-gaining-confidence-737-max-service-return-timelines

lightsaber · Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:25 pm

This is a reference, not a discussion thread. Please take discussion to the main forum.

eraugrad02 · Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:01 pm

I think all 4 US carriers will purchase the white tails. How many is the real question.

Boeing's 737 MAX White-Tail Problem: Will Any U.S. Airlines Help?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/boeing-s-737-max-white-tail-problem-will-any-u-s-airlines-help/ar-BB1b1KAy?ocid=msedgntp

Revelation · Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:08 pm

Reuters suggests that the prohibition on operation will be lifted tomorrow (Weds)...

After a standoff with global regulators, management turmoil and a massive safety review, Boeing Co BA.N is set to win U.S. approval on Wednesday to resume flights of its grounded 737 MAX.

Ref; https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boei ... SKBN27W184

aschachter · Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:27 pm

Airlines are starting to refer to the 737 MAX as 737-8, 737-9, 737-10 etc

https://worldofaviation.com/?p=87475?ut ... m_emailID=

Revelation · Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:32 am

In case you are wondering if airlines will be motivated to take 737s, AA's CFO said its Boeing settlement means “every aircraft we take is going to be a significantly cash positive impact to the airline, so we want to take those aircraft as we go forward.”

Ref: https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 7489146880

Chipmunk1973 · Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:46 am

Some analysts are of the opinion that the 737MAX could be one of the most expensive corporate losses in history.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/17/busi ... index.html

T4thH · Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:15 pm

According German "breaking" news,, FAA has de-grounded the MAX.
https://www.n-tv.de/newsletter/breakingnews/US-Flugaufsicht-laesst-Boeings-Krisenjet-737-Max-wieder-zu-article22176975.html

EDIT: English source.

Boeing 737 MAX Set to Be Cleared to Fly Again, but Covid-19 Has Sapped Demand

https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeing-737-max-to-fly-again-but-now-coronavirus-has-sapped-demand-11605695402

hOMSaR · Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:42 pm

Article from CNN on the ungrounding: https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/business ... index.html

qf789 · Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:31 pm

Just a reminder that this thread is for news only, unless you are posting something news related along with a link to a news source, everything else including discussion must take part in the discussion thread

CanukinUSA · Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:37 pm

For details refer to released reading material from FAA under Freedom of Information Act:

https://www.faa.gov/foia/electronic_rea ... ding_room/

Revelation · Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:26 pm

FAA has issued a press release, the key section is:

In addition to rescinding the order that grounded the aircraft, the FAA today published an Airworthiness Directive (PDF) specifying design changes that must be made before the aircraft returns to service, issued a Continued Airworthiness Notification to the International Community (CANIC), and published the MAX training requirements. (PDF) These actions do not allow the MAX to return immediately to the skies. The FAA must approve 737 MAX pilot training program revisions for each U.S. airline operating the MAX and will retain its authority to issue airworthiness certificates and export certificates of airworthiness for all new 737 MAX aircraft manufactured since the FAA issued the grounding order. Furthermore, airlines that have parked their MAX aircraft must take required maintenance steps to prepare them to fly again.

Ref: https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=93206

lightsaber · Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:08 pm

This thread us for a link, brief comment, and a quote. Please take discussion to the main thread.

beechnut · Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:26 pm

Statement from Transport Canada on the FAA un-grounding:

https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-cana ... craft.html

The commercial flight restrictions for the operation of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft in Canadian airspace remain in effect and will not be lifted until the department is fully satisfied that all its safety concerns have been addressed, and that enhanced flight crew procedures and training are in place in Canada.

Momo1435 · Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:27 pm

Southwest Airlines statement
https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... to-service

"There is much work to be done before our MAX aircraft will resume service, which we estimate will likely take place no sooner than the second quarter of 2021."

Alaska Airlines Statement:
https://www.alaskaair.com/content/trave ... /737-max-9

'Our first aircraft, a MAX 9 model, is currently scheduled for delivery in early 2021 and will begin passenger service in March 2021."

9Patch · Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:21 pm

Alaska Airlines plans to begin flying the Boeing 737 Max in March.
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/aviatio ... ax-planes/

keesje · Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:24 am

Flight Global Article on what Questions persist after 737 Max recertification.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/questions-persist-after-737-max-recertification/141201.article

Revelation · Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:20 pm

All Boeing 737 Max will be inspected for foreign object debris (FOD) prior to returning to revenue service, according to Boeing.

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 63.article

Oykie · Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:07 am

China not ready to approve 737MAX yet.

http://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/20201 ... 95494.html

Opus99 · Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:58 pm

https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/eas ... 36.article

EASA to come at end of month

ShamrockBoi330 · Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:01 am

Opus99 wrote:
https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/easa-prepares-to-issue-own-737-max-recertification-directive/141236.article

EASA to come at end of month

Reuters reporting EASA are now saying grounding likely to be lifted in January following 30 consultation period after proposed directive is published.

Officials confirmed a draft EASA directive proposing to end the grounding in Europe will be published next week, followed by a 30-day comment period. After finishing touches, that would lead to an ungrounding decision in January.

https://ca.reuters.com/article/us-boein ... AKBN2810KU

avier · Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:24 pm

EASA to not adopt FAA directive over 737 MAX ungrounding.

Europe says more needs to be done to make Boeing 737 Max safe enough to fly again
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 351898.cms

https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/2020-24- ... 20-24-02_2
https://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/US-2020-24-02

KarlB737 · Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:23 pm

Courtesy: Fox Business

Southwest CEO says software issues in Boeing model that crashed twice have 'easily been addressed'

https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/southwest-ceo-says-software-issues-in-boeing-plane-that-crashed-twice-have-easily-been-addressed

V220 · Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:07 pm

EASA has issued proposed AD for commenting with end date 22.12.2020.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/newsroom-and ... ng-737-max

REDHL · Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:34 pm

Brazil's ANAC has lifted the Boeing 737 MAX flight ban:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boei ... 852Y1?il=0

freakyrat · Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:05 pm

Here is an interesting article on what Boeing did to the 737MAX to fix the issues and what may come in the future on the 737MAX.
https://leehamnews.com/2020/11/24/boein ... yond-mcas/

Revelation · Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:54 pm

AA flies a MAX TUL->DFW, a positive sign for RTS in the near future.

First Max out of storage refurb in Tulsa from @americanair.

Ref: https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 5960810497
Ref: https://twitter.com/shaqish_/status/1333480254934032384

lightsaber · Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:54 pm

Leeham has a nice article on return to service work:
https://leehamnews.com/2020/12/01/resto ... e-737-max/

The rework of a 737 MAX wiring for the trim systems takes about 400 working hours. Special teams are set up at facilities around the world to perform this work.

I always like numbers on what work is required. But it is 400 labor hours plus other work (link has much more detail) that sums up as:

The above takes about 10 days once the rewiring is done.

Lightsaber
Late edit: I could manage a 2 shift team to finish that wiring work in 5-days and with practice 4 days. So a 2 to 3 week process (with and without weekend work) per aircraft. This becomes an assembly line. TeamA fixes their stuff, TeamB fixes their stuff, then the engineering test team, then the flight test team. Note: it can be more teams, I just broke into 4 for illustration purposes.

Late Edit #2: I didn't add the 1 week for delivery, as noted in the link, so a 3 to 4 week total process.

Revelation · Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:24 pm

Regarding AA's plans for early December, we have a presser that says:

We will begin with non-commercial flights in early December before the official return to service date to demonstrate that the 737 MAX is as safe as every plane we fly at American.

Ref: http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

And a CNBC article:

American is planning offer some customers a chance after Thanksgiving to see the aircraft in person at airports, including Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, LaGuardia and Miami, with the participation of pilots and mechanics. Pilots can also answer customer questions through calls and video messages, the company said.

"They're the ones that ... really have the credibility to explain the Max," said Alison Taylor, American's chief customer officer, in the employee town hall.

Ref: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/24/america ... dence.html

Revelation · Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:56 pm

Reuters: FAA issues new first air certificate for Boeing 737 MAX since 2019 says:

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has issued its first airworthiness certificate for a Boeing 737 MAX built since March 2019, the agency said on Tuesday.

It doesn't say if this MAX was a new build coming off the production line or one of the stored frames.

It also says:

The FAA separately last week approved an American Airlines training plan for pilots to resume 737 MAX flights, the agency and airline confirmed. That approval clears the way for American to resume MAX flights starting Dec. 29 once it completes required tests and software upgrades to parked planes.

So AA's got its training in place and is on track for RTS on Dec 29th.

TWA302 · Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:12 pm

AA Media flight today https://www.reuters.com/article/us-boeing-737max-american-airline/boeing-737-max-returns-to-skies-with-media-onboard-idUSKBN28C1LV

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9750

Revelation · Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:31 am

Bloomberg ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... gol-flight ) reports the first post-grounding delivery is imminent, maybe to UA, maybe to AA.

It also reports that GOL may be first to have MAX return to service, as early as December 10, beating AA by a few weeks.

Also, Boeing's stock is up 5% based on the news that Ryanair may be placing a large follow on order (up to 75 frames according to other sources) in the near future.

KarlB737 · Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:50 pm

Courtesy: Airways Magazine

Ed Bastian On Vaccines, The Stimulus And The Boeing 737 Max

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/ed-bastian-on-vaccines-the-stimulus-and-the-boeing-737-max/

Revelation · Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:04 pm

Flight Global tells us: "Boeing to stick with 'Max' name for latest 737":

Boeing has no intention to stop calling its latest 737 the “Max”.

The company’s chief executive David Calhoun dismissed that suggestion during a 3 December press conference.

“There is no rebranding going on,” he said. “There’s nothing cute going on.”

Calhoun made that comment after Boeing announced that longtime customer Ryanair had ordered another 75 Max – all of them 737 Max 8-200 variants.

This is consistent with his earlier comments that there is no way to market their way around the MAX tragedy and they needed to deal with restoring their reputation directly. The MAX 8-200 name pre-dates the tragedy.

Ref: https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 48.article

lightsaber · Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:31 pm

This us a reference thread. Users have asked for seperate threads with a link without discussion to wade through. Post a link, a comment, and a quote.

seahawks7757 · Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:04 am

The first 737 MAX to be issued an Airworthiness Certificate from the FAA since the grounding. To be N27519 when delivered. Now in the database.

KarlB737 · Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:15 pm

Courtesy: Bloomberg News

Boeing Lands Crucial Max Deal From Ryanair as Grounding Ends -- Discount carrier signs up for 75 planes priced at $9.4 billion

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-03/boeing-lands-mammoth-max-deal-from-ryanair-as-grounding-ends

winGl3t · Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:36 pm

Yesterday GOL's PR-XMA did a corporate flight with the airlines executives and their famlies from CGH (GOL HQ) to CNF (maintenance hub) and back.
Next week they are planning a flight with journalist and brazilian aviation authorities.

Pic and text (portuguese only):
https://www.panrotas.com.br/aviacao/emp ... 78395.html

Revelation · Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:57 pm

First delivery flight for MAX in 21 months is a UA MAX-9 on a short hop from BFI to SEA:

The first delivery of a Boeing 737 MAX in 21 months is due to take off from Boeing Field in less than half an hour (EDIT: now, 5 minutes).

It's a United 737 MAX 9.

Details from Flightaware: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL2703

Ref: https://twitter.com/dominicgates/status ... 0673639424

lightsaber · Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:10 pm

Aviation week on the training required. It looks like one simulator session:

https://aviationweek.com/aerospace/how- ... axs-return

From a flight crew training perspective the procedural and system software changes will require an additional 1-2 hr. of classroom or, more likely, computer-based training plus a simulator session. Operators and regulators working with Boeing indicate that it will require around 2 hr. of simulator time to complete the required additional training per flight crew, plus an hour of presession briefings.

This is much less than I estimated a month ago. (A good thing I was pessimistic.)

Lightsaber

Revelation · Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:16 pm

We have RTS!

MAX is Back: @VoeGOLoficial #737MAX 8 PR-XMB airborne ex-GRU e/r POA on world's first revenue flight since grounding

Ref: https://twitter.com/MaxK_J/status/1336638562134056960

Revelation · Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:27 am

Additional sources on GoL's RTS flight:

KarlB737 · Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:11 pm

Courtesy: Aviation Week

Flying The Boeing 737 MAX Again

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/aircraft-propulsion/flying-boeing-737-max-again

KarlB737 · Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:44 pm

Courtesy: Aviation Week

American Airlines' First Of 18 DAE Boeing 737 MAX 8

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/aa-first-dae-b-737-max-8/

upintheair2019 · Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:14 pm

itripreport wrote:
I don't have any links to post this, but according to their website, Aeromexico is now set to become the second airline worldwide to restart 737 MAX operations, operating MEX-CUN on December 21st

7S8 is a 737-800, not a MAX.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lightsaber · Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:14 pm

This is a reference, not a discussion thread. Please post accordingly.

REDHL · Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:22 pm

Aeromexico will resume 737 MAX services from December 21st:

https://www.aerotime.aero/26689-aeromex ... ax-flights
https://paxex.aero/2020/12/aeromexico-7 ... -december/

According to Paxex.aero website, AM's MAX 8s will be deployed in the following routes:

Is also expected that the MEX-MTY route will also be served by the MAX by December 27th.

REDHL · Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:02 pm

REDHL wrote:
Aeromexico will resume 737 MAX services from December 21st:

https://www.aerotime.aero/26689-aeromex ... ax-flights
https://paxex.aero/2020/12/aeromexico-7 ... -december/

According to Paxex.aero website, AM's MAX 8s will be deployed in the following routes:

MEX - CUN (AM 512, AM 546, and AM 528)
CUN - MEX (AM 531 and AM 547)
CUN - TIJ (AM 194)
TIJ - MEX (AM 173)
MEX - TIJ (AM 194)

Is also expected that the MEX-MTY route will also be served by the MAX by December 27th.

Correction: the CUN-TIJ flight number is AM 196. My apologies.

REDHL · Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:23 am

Boeing has made the first settlement regarding ET302 crash:

https://www.the-star.co.ke/business/ken ... nes-crash/

However and in the same topic, attorney Tom Girardi has been sued for allegedly embezzling $2 million in settlements regarding JT610 crash:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-otc-g ... SKBN28C3F7
https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... to-clients

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