Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:35 pm

Regarding new possible air routes for 2020

Air Chathams although has 3 Saabs in their fleet they presently only use two ZK KRA and ZK CIY it looks like the 3rd has not flown for 4 months and just a test flight. ZK-CIZ if they could get this one airworthy they could launch a new route this year:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKKRA
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKCIY
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKCIZ
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5571
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:35 am

NZ516 wrote:
Regarding new possible air routes for 2020

Air Chathams although has 3 Saabs in their fleet they presently only use two ZK KRA and ZK CIY it looks like the 3rd has not flown for 4 months and just a test flight. ZK-CIZ if they could get this one airworthy they could launch a new route this year:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKKRA
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKCIY
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKCIZ

That’s not correct. ZK-CIZ was out of service for a heavy check for a period of time in 2019, but it has been in use for both scheduled and charter services since then. It is currently on final for Auckland according to FlightRadar24.

You do make a good point though that a schedule which requires three aircraft to be in constant rotation needs more than three aircraft available to operate it to account for maintenance downtime, engineering issues, and so on.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
AviatorNZ
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:07 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:15 am

NZ516 wrote:
Regarding new possible air routes for 2020

Air Chathams although has 3 Saabs in their fleet they presently only use two ZK KRA and ZK CIY it looks like the 3rd has not flown for 4 months and just a test flight. ZK-CIZ if they could get this one airworthy they could launch a new route this year:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKKRA
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKCIY
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ZKCIZ


CIZ has been operating regular services since at least April 15 2018. It had a 7 month hiatus between 29 April 2019 and 27 November 2019, only operating 2 flights in this period. It has since returned to normal service.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:24 am

So Flight aware is not always correct and missing a lot of information. Will be the same with their ATR ZKMCO as well that's definitely been active recently. I should have checked up on FR24 for a second opinion.
 
NZ321
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:54 pm

Question: The A320 series - A320s in particular - seem to be prone to a lot of fume incidents. The latest affected a BA fight on approach to LHR where the first officer passed out after the smell of old socks while the captain put his oxygen mask on and declared maday and managed to land the plane. I am not aware of any such incidents on NZ yet NZ has operated the type for quite some time. Can anybody lend any insight as to why some airlines have frequent such fume incidents (LH is another) and others not? Or do they go unreported?
Plane mad!
 
a7ala
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:17 pm

Looks like Jetstar are increasing WLG-OOL from 3pw to up to 6pw during northern summer. According to their website all months apart from Jul/Aug getting an increase. New flights look to be operating at a much better time for the returning WLG market dep OOL at 14:35 rather than the current 06:20.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:54 am

a7ala wrote:
Looks like Jetstar are increasing WLG-OOL from 3pw to up to 6pw during northern summer. According to their website all months apart from Jul/Aug getting an increase. New flights look to be operating at a much better time for the returning WLG market dep OOL at 14:35 rather than the current 06:20.


Good to see Jetstar returning additional flying back to NZ after a lot of cut backs last year.. WLG lost both the Nelson and Dunedin services and previously Melbourne so gaining more OOL flying can make up for a bit of the lost seats in the WLG market.
Last edited by NZ516 on Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:21 am

The Wellington to Nelson route is.interesting with the return of Origin Air in February will make it a 3 way battle again. Along with Sounds Air and Air NZ all competing. This is the only domestic route in the country with 3 airlines on it and will keep the public happy with lots of choice.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3673
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:29 am

NZ321 wrote:
Question: The A320 series - A320s in particular - seem to be prone to a lot of fume incidents. The latest affected a BA fight on approach to LHR where the first officer passed out after the smell of old socks while the captain put his oxygen mask on and declared maday and managed to land the plane. I am not aware of any such incidents on NZ yet NZ has operated the type for quite some time. Can anybody lend any insight as to why some airlines have frequent such fume incidents (LH is another) and others not? Or do they go unreported?


Frequent? You cite one specific case, but without link. And then loosely talk other incidents. This really isn’t a question for the NZ Av forum as no operators of the type here are seeing such incidents AFAIK (JQ or NZ).

Articles show all bleed-air aircraft are susceptible to fume events.
come visit the south pacific
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 8346
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:46 am

NZ321 wrote:
Question: The A320 series - A320s in particular - seem to be prone to a lot of fume incidents. The latest affected a BA fight on approach to LHR where the first officer passed out after the smell of old socks while the captain put his oxygen mask on and declared maday and managed to land the plane. I am not aware of any such incidents on NZ yet NZ has operated the type for quite some time. Can anybody lend any insight as to why some airlines have frequent such fume incidents (LH is another) and others not? Or do they go unreported?


Could be the cleaning products/solvents or the concentration used by particular airlines during cleaning and maintenance routines, or the frequency of the treatment or the lack of stand down after treatment before service or just about anything in between. There are really any number of reasons.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4521
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:41 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Question: The A320 series - A320s in particular - seem to be prone to a lot of fume incidents. The latest affected a BA fight on approach to LHR where the first officer passed out after the smell of old socks while the captain put his oxygen mask on and declared maday and managed to land the plane. I am not aware of any such incidents on NZ yet NZ has operated the type for quite some time. Can anybody lend any insight as to why some airlines have frequent such fume incidents (LH is another) and others not? Or do they go unreported?

I think overseas they tend to get abused a bit more and/or are older/have more cycles. NZ by comparison operates them on Tasman and PI flights which are medium-long distance so far as an A320 is concerned. They also operate them domestically with newer models (so despite being used and abused more they’re still youngish).
In Europe etc you also might run into a space where multiple aircraft have started and with limited wind on certain days leaving a bit of a cloud of fumes etc.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
a7ala
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:09 pm

NZ516 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
Looks like Jetstar are increasing WLG-OOL from 3pw to up to 6pw during northern summer. According to their website all months apart from Jul/Aug getting an increase. New flights look to be operating at a much better time for the returning WLG market dep OOL at 14:35 rather than the current 06:20.


Good to see Jetstar returning additional flying back to NZ after a lot of cut backs last year.. WLG lost both the Nelson and Dunedin services and previously Melbourne so gaining more OOL flying can make up for a bit of the lost seats in the WLG market.


They have also returned to WLG-ZQN and increased to daily recently. Its always surprised me that JQ have been more interested in trying things in WLG than in CHC which arguably should be a leisure market more suited to their offering.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:59 pm

a7ala wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
Looks like Jetstar are increasing WLG-OOL from 3pw to up to 6pw during northern summer. According to their website all months apart from Jul/Aug getting an increase. New flights look to be operating at a much better time for the returning WLG market dep OOL at 14:35 rather than the current 06:20.


Good to see Jetstar returning additional flying back to NZ after a lot of cut backs last year.. WLG lost both the Nelson and Dunedin services and previously Melbourne so gaining more OOL flying can make up for a bit of the lost seats in the WLG market.


They have also returned to WLG-ZQN and increased to daily recently. Its always surprised me that JQ have been more interested in trying things in WLG than in CHC which arguably should be a leisure market more suited to their offering.


Probably they see that WLG is the bigger market than CHC and the route from the capital to ZQN is under served with with only 2 NZ flights per day compared with 4-5 out of CHC.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:11 pm

Controversial Wanaka jet airport plan turned into animated video

A plan to turn Wanaka's "community" airport into a busy jet operation has been made into an animated video to show the potential impacts of the proposed development.

The Wanaka Stakeholders Group (WSG) released the video – entitled Tomorrow's Wanaka and produced by Dunedin-based business Animation Research – to show what the development of Wanaka Airport could mean for the Upper Clutha area.

WSG deputy chair Mark Sinclair said the video was intended to "raise awareness and stimulate discussion" about the issue.


more story and video:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118477 ... ated-video

The video looks very professional they seem to persuade the public to be against the proposal. Also I can't see the demand is there for 70 jet flights a day. It is more likely to start with a Saab size plane and only 5 day per week to begin with. Jet flights will take years to come before demand builds for this new airport. I personally can't see any bank is going to lend $400m to expand it to that scale anyway. The business case wont stack up yet demand takes time they won't get to 4.5 million passengers per year overnight. It will most likely start off in stages with a small expansion of the existing terminal
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4521
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:33 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Controversial Wanaka jet airport plan turned into animated video

A plan to turn Wanaka's "community" airport into a busy jet operation has been made into an animated video to show the potential impacts of the proposed development.

The Wanaka Stakeholders Group (WSG) released the video – entitled Tomorrow's Wanaka and produced by Dunedin-based business Animation Research – to show what the development of Wanaka Airport could mean for the Upper Clutha area.

WSG deputy chair Mark Sinclair said the video was intended to "raise awareness and stimulate discussion" about the issue.


more story and video:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118477 ... ated-video

The video looks very professional they seem to persuade the public to be against the proposal. Also I can't see the demand is there for 70 jet flights a day. It is more likely to start with a Saab size plane and only 5 day per week to begin with. Jet flights will take years to come before demand builds for this new airport. I personally can't see any bank is going to lend $400m to expand it to that scale anyway. The business case wont stack up yet demand takes time they won't get to 4.5 million passengers per year overnight. It will most likely start off in stages with a small expansion of the existing terminal

Bunch of NIMBYs. As usual they exaggerate too. They mention 70 arrivals per day, ZQN doesn’t even do half that... why do they think that a town a fraction of the size would command anything like that? Let alone when ZQN will still exist. Scare mongering pure and simple.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1666
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:32 am

NZ516 wrote:
Controversial Wanaka jet airport plan turned into animated video

A plan to turn Wanaka's "community" airport into a busy jet operation has been made into an animated video to show the potential impacts of the proposed development.

The Wanaka Stakeholders Group (WSG) released the video – entitled Tomorrow's Wanaka and produced by Dunedin-based business Animation Research – to show what the development of Wanaka Airport could mean for the Upper Clutha area.

WSG deputy chair Mark Sinclair said the video was intended to "raise awareness and stimulate discussion" about the issue.


more story and video:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118477 ... ated-video

The video looks very professional they seem to persuade the public to be against the proposal. Also I can't see the demand is there for 70 jet flights a day. It is more likely to start with a Saab size plane and only 5 day per week to begin with. Jet flights will take years to come before demand builds for this new airport. I personally can't see any bank is going to lend $400m to expand it to that scale anyway. The business case wont stack up yet demand takes time they won't get to 4.5 million passengers per year overnight. It will most likely start off in stages with a small expansion of the existing terminal

NZ was talking around a year ago about its interest in running A320 services from AKL, rather than anything shorter than that. AKL is probably where the market is, anyway, judging by the relative strengths of the AKL, WLG and CHC markets to ZQN.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1666
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:40 am

Having now watched the video, it's much less inflammatory and NIMBYistic than I had feared it would be. At least it doesn't tell people what to think, but basically poses questions.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Posts: 10110
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:36 am

Air Chathams today posted on their Facebook page advertising for AKL based Saab and ATR cabin crew. Hopefully this could mean increased Saab and ATR services

NZ516 wrote:
The Wellington to Nelson route is.interesting with the return of Origin Air in February will make it a 3 way battle again. Along with Sounds Air and Air NZ all competing. This is the only domestic route in the country with 3 airlines on it and will keep the public happy with lots of choice.

When was WLG-NSN announced?

NZ516 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
Looks like Jetstar are increasing WLG-OOL from 3pw to up to 6pw during northern summer. According to their website all months apart from Jul/Aug getting an increase. New flights look to be operating at a much better time for the returning WLG market dep OOL at 14:35 rather than the current 06:20.


Good to see Jetstar returning additional flying back to NZ after a lot of cut backs last year.. WLG lost both the Nelson and Dunedin services and previously Melbourne so gaining more OOL flying can make up for a bit of the lost seats in the WLG market.

JQs WLG-DUD was never going to succeed IMHO with the lack of services offered. The DUD service was pretty much switched to ZQN so the capacity stayed but switched ports. WLG-ZQN is apparently doing well for JQ.
Head Forum Moderator
[email protected]
Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:00 pm

Origin Air didn't make any announcement they just put them available for sale on their website. At the moment you can only book NSN to PMR and NSN to WLG..As NPE and NPL are both still not listed for sale yet. There is a note below it saying that they will return to them in March.

Good to see Air Chathams taking on more cabin crew perhaps they might get a 2nd ATR from Air NZ.
 
Unclekoru
Posts: 316
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:17 pm

NZ516 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

Good to see Jetstar returning additional flying back to NZ after a lot of cut backs last year.. WLG lost both the Nelson and Dunedin services and previously Melbourne so gaining more OOL flying can make up for a bit of the lost seats in the WLG market.


They have also returned to WLG-ZQN and increased to daily recently. Its always surprised me that JQ have been more interested in trying things in WLG than in CHC which arguably should be a leisure market more suited to their offering.


Probably they see that WLG is the bigger market than CHC and the route from the capital to ZQN is under served with with only 2 NZ flights per day compared with 4-5 out of CHC.


Without looking too closely at it, NZ capacity between WLG/ZQN and CHC/ZQN looks fairly well matched. Typiclly 3 x AT7 and 1 x A320 per day from CHC versus 2 x A320 per day from WLG, ignoring temporary variations.
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
NZ6
Posts: 1596
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:01 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Controversial Wanaka jet airport plan turned into animated video

A plan to turn Wanaka's "community" airport into a busy jet operation has been made into an animated video to show the potential impacts of the proposed development.

The Wanaka Stakeholders Group (WSG) released the video – entitled Tomorrow's Wanaka and produced by Dunedin-based business Animation Research – to show what the development of Wanaka Airport could mean for the Upper Clutha area.

WSG deputy chair Mark Sinclair said the video was intended to "raise awareness and stimulate discussion" about the issue.


more story and video:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118477 ... ated-video

The video looks very professional they seem to persuade the public to be against the proposal. Also I can't see the demand is there for 70 jet flights a day. It is more likely to start with a Saab size plane and only 5 day per week to begin with. Jet flights will take years to come before demand builds for this new airport. I personally can't see any bank is going to lend $400m to expand it to that scale anyway. The business case wont stack up yet demand takes time they won't get to 4.5 million passengers per year overnight. It will most likely start off in stages with a small expansion of the existing terminal


Yes, they could see 70 jet movements a day within 10-20 years. They've carefully called it movements so, 35 arrivals and 35 departures! ZQN has around this number today. I think some may interrupt this as 70 jet arrivals as this is what the video shows at the time the statement is read.

ZQN is also already pretty expensive based on the whole supply and demand thing and tourism is only expected to grow rapidly.

Of course, it'll all depend on what is build when. But if it was built tomorrow that's not completely unrealistic for say 2038.

What irks me is all these self-entitled snobs, they will welcome every tourist dollar possible but have a don't fly into my bit of paradise thank you attitude. Meanwhile, the skies over Lake Wakatipu will just get busier and busier.

The difference today vs just 10 years ago is noticeable to almost anyone who's been in the area to compare. When I first went there, it was almost the town clock, oh there's a jet leaving, it must be 3 pm (whatever time in the afternoon it was). Now it's more than an hourly occurrence.

As for funding, WKA is owned by ZQN, ZQN is 75% owned by the local council and 25% owned by AIAL. Can't see too many issues with funding approval.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1596
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:03 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
Bunch of NIMBYs. As usual they exaggerate too. They mention 70 arrivals per day, ZQN doesn’t even do half that... why do they think that a town a fraction of the size would command anything like that? Let alone when ZQN will still exist. Scare mongering pure and simple.


Case and point above. They say 70 movements.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1596
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:17 pm

777ER wrote:
Air Chathams today posted on their Facebook page advertising for AKL based Saab and ATR cabin crew. Hopefully this could mean increased Saab and ATR services

a) Or is 3C just looking at AKL for a larger pool of candidates? Hiring the 'right person' in the regions can have its challenges.
b) Or without looking at the schedule, is 3C trying to avoid costly overnights in AKL by having an AKL based crew?

The other side to AKL based crew is wages, the cost of living in AKL as many of us know is higher than the regions so while there are more people looking for work, they're also typically wanting higher wages too and that eliminates some of point a.

2019 was a good year for 3C by the looks. PPQ, WHK appear to be good routes for them. The ATR charters will likely be healthy for them too. NLK.... well, I can honestly say I can't think of anyone willing to fly a Convair to NLK for a holiday but I'll wait and see and then there are the CHT flights themselves

So they've got a healthy distribution in their business and could easily scale back if needed.

Where would 3C get a SAAB from? Another ex NZ ATR-500 could be nice, I said last year, It could easily and nicely do CHT and maybe NLK work for the Convair which are very very old.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:24 pm

They will need at least 3 ATRs to replace their Convair fleet. But the payload would be heavily reduced. I wonder how much longer will they keep them running. They must be very expensive to maintain. Surely a replacement must not be to far away. The ATR would be a better experience for both NLK and the CHT routes.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1596
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:51 am

NZ516 wrote:
They will need at least 3 ATRs to replace their Convair fleet. But the payload would be heavily reduced. I wonder how much longer will they keep them running. They must be very expensive to maintain. Surely a replacement must not be to far away. The ATR would be a better experience for both NLK and the CHT routes.


This was discussed early last year or maybe even late the year before.

Apparently 3C will become a Jet airline and we'll see 737's in their colours along with a runway upgrade when the Convair aircraft are replaced.

Back to your point. They don't have to replace 1 for 1. They also don't need to keep a mixed belly approach. They could just make one ATR cargo only. Run it over to CHT and around NZ on charter work overnight etc all while having another with mix freight/passenger load.

There are other options to an ATR but given 3C already has an ATR, there are plenty around the world which brings down the market price, NZ still have a number which have all been well looked after. Engineering experience/parts and training are all available here also. The ATR can make the trip to CHT and it's a very robust hard-working aircraft. There's a lot of reasons why an ATR makes sense.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:00 am

Also it was mentioned last year that the runway extension on Chatham islands won't get funding from the PGF so for a 737 freighter won't be able to be brought into their fleet. So plan B could well be to replace the Convairs with ATRs in the future.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1596
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:20 am

NZ516 wrote:
Also it was mentioned last year that the runway extension on Chatham islands won't get funding from the PGF so for a 737 freighter won't be able to be brought into their fleet. So plan B could well be to replace the Convairs with ATRs in the future.


To be honest, if CHT requires a 737. Use one of the many available for regular charter.

But that aside, freight is predominately imports required for those on the island vs sending goods off the island so I'd predict a massive imbalance in cargo movements and with a 737, wouldn't that be extremely costly.

Long-life inbound goods can easily be sent via sea in a container. As for exports, we're talking seafood. The Q300/ATR's do that out of NSN now. This, however, is premium Salmon bound for the Chinese market who pay a premium for it to be fresh. Live crayfish would make for heavy cargo, especially per cray! all other frozen seafood can take its time via shipping container. How much ex CHT needs to be kept fresh and not live or frozen?

It took a quick google search to find this; https://www.chathamislandsshipping.co.nz/ - Their price guide gives some clear clues to what's being sent to/from the area.
 
777ER
Head Moderator
Posts: 10110
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:37 am

NZ6 wrote:
777ER wrote:
Air Chathams today posted on their Facebook page advertising for AKL based Saab and ATR cabin crew. Hopefully this could mean increased Saab and ATR services

a) Or is 3C just looking at AKL for a larger pool of candidates? Hiring the 'right person' in the regions can have its challenges.
b) Or without looking at the schedule, is 3C trying to avoid costly overnights in AKL by having an AKL based crew?

The other side to AKL based crew is wages, the cost of living in AKL as many of us know is higher than the regions so while there are more people looking for work, they're also typically wanting higher wages too and that eliminates some of point a.

I'm guessing there is only AKL based crews as Kapiti have a company branded Holden for overnighting crews to use. Seen the vehicle at WLG and at Paraparaumu Beach. Only using AKL based crews will certainly add to the expenses when you include the local crew company vehicles.
Head Forum Moderator
[email protected]
Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 4521
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:06 am

NZ6 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Bunch of NIMBYs. As usual they exaggerate too. They mention 70 arrivals per day, ZQN doesn’t even do half that... why do they think that a town a fraction of the size would command anything like that? Let alone when ZQN will still exist. Scare mongering pure and simple.


Case and point above. They say 70 movements.

“A movement is classified as a landing or a take-off”... ie 35 of each...
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5571
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:51 am

777ER wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
777ER wrote:
Air Chathams today posted on their Facebook page advertising for AKL based Saab and ATR cabin crew. Hopefully this could mean increased Saab and ATR services

a) Or is 3C just looking at AKL for a larger pool of candidates? Hiring the 'right person' in the regions can have its challenges.
b) Or without looking at the schedule, is 3C trying to avoid costly overnights in AKL by having an AKL based crew?

The other side to AKL based crew is wages, the cost of living in AKL as many of us know is higher than the regions so while there are more people looking for work, they're also typically wanting higher wages too and that eliminates some of point a.

I'm guessing there is only AKL based crews as Kapiti have a company branded Holden for overnighting crews to use. Seen the vehicle at WLG and at Paraparaumu Beach. Only using AKL based crews will certainly add to the expenses when you include the local crew company vehicles.

That’s correct. From what I understand their standard rotation has crews starting in Auckland in the middle of the day, overnighting in one of the detonations, then finishing in Auckland the next day. There may be some exceptions to this though.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3673
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:26 am

NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Also it was mentioned last year that the runway extension on Chatham islands won't get funding from the PGF so for a 737 freighter won't be able to be brought into their fleet. So plan B could well be to replace the Convairs with ATRs in the future.


To be honest, if CHT requires a 737. Use one of the many available for regular charter.

But that aside, freight is predominately imports required for those on the island vs sending goods off the island so I'd predict a massive imbalance in cargo movements and with a 737, wouldn't that be extremely costly.

Long-life inbound goods can easily be sent via sea in a container. As for exports, we're talking seafood. The Q300/ATR's do that out of NSN now. This, however, is premium Salmon bound for the Chinese market who pay a premium for it to be fresh. Live crayfish would make for heavy cargo, especially per cray! all other frozen seafood can take its time via shipping container. How much ex CHT needs to be kept fresh and not live or frozen?

It took a quick google search to find this; https://www.chathamislandsshipping.co.nz/ - Their price guide gives some clear clues to what's being sent to/from the area.


I understood, and am happy to be corrected, that there is an abundance of high value Kai Moana in the form of crayfish, paua and blue cod being airlifted out of the Chathams. Fresh tastes best and commands a decent premium.
come visit the south pacific
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:36 pm

Lyttelton Harbour floatplane tour plans deemed unsafe by Civil Aviation Authority

Planned floatplane tours leaving from Christchurch's busy Lyttelton Harbour have failed to get off the water.

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has quashed Peninsula Air's plan to run up to 112 tours a month, citing safety concerns. The proposed flights would have taken off from a section of water between Quail Island and Rapaki, and would run in daylight hours only.

A CAA study found the narrowness of Lyttelton Harbour meant pilots would have restricted alternative landing spots if other people were in the proposed waterdrome space.


more story:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118665 ... -authority

I would have been very keen to try out a float plane flight out of the harbour but unfortunately it wont be going ahead.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1596
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:04 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
Bunch of NIMBYs. As usual they exaggerate too. They mention 70 arrivals per day, ZQN doesn’t even do half that... why do they think that a town a fraction of the size would command anything like that? Let alone when ZQN will still exist. Scare mongering pure and simple.


Case and point above. They say 70 movements.

“A movement is classified as a landing or a take-off”... ie 35 of each...


I know. Have a look at what you wrote. Which it turns out is clearly is an error but I merely used it to highlight my point of how the terms movements could be miss interrupted. Especially by those non-aviation or logistically minded.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1596
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:08 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
777ER wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
a) Or is 3C just looking at AKL for a larger pool of candidates? Hiring the 'right person' in the regions can have its challenges.
b) Or without looking at the schedule, is 3C trying to avoid costly overnights in AKL by having an AKL based crew?

The other side to AKL based crew is wages, the cost of living in AKL as many of us know is higher than the regions so while there are more people looking for work, they're also typically wanting higher wages too and that eliminates some of point a.

I'm guessing there is only AKL based crews as Kapiti have a company branded Holden for overnighting crews to use. Seen the vehicle at WLG and at Paraparaumu Beach. Only using AKL based crews will certainly add to the expenses when you include the local crew company vehicles.

That’s correct. From what I understand their standard rotation has crews starting in Auckland in the middle of the day, overnighting in one of the detonations, then finishing in Auckland the next day. There may be some exceptions to this though.

V/F


Out of interest then, is 3C increasing their crew numbers of just topping up numbers lost through normal attrition. Jet Connect and Air NZ have both taking crew onboard... I'd imagine 3C would loose a few keen crew members to bigger airlines for obvious reasons.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1596
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:17 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Also it was mentioned last year that the runway extension on Chatham islands won't get funding from the PGF so for a 737 freighter won't be able to be brought into their fleet. So plan B could well be to replace the Convairs with ATRs in the future.


To be honest, if CHT requires a 737. Use one of the many available for regular charter.

But that aside, freight is predominately imports required for those on the island vs sending goods off the island so I'd predict a massive imbalance in cargo movements and with a 737, wouldn't that be extremely costly.

Long-life inbound goods can easily be sent via sea in a container. As for exports, we're talking seafood. The Q300/ATR's do that out of NSN now. This, however, is premium Salmon bound for the Chinese market who pay a premium for it to be fresh. Live crayfish would make for heavy cargo, especially per cray! all other frozen seafood can take its time via shipping container. How much ex CHT needs to be kept fresh and not live or frozen?

It took a quick google search to find this; https://www.chathamislandsshipping.co.nz/ - Their price guide gives some clear clues to what's being sent to/from the area.


I understood, and am happy to be corrected, that there is an abundance of high value Kai Moana in the form of crayfish, paua and blue cod being airlifted out of the Chathams. Fresh tastes best and commands a decent premium.


My understanding is that's their primary export. I'm not disputing that.

None of us really know how much an "abundance" is and how this relates to a 737 being required vs an ATR with a few more trips for example.
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5571
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:57 pm

NZ6 wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
777ER wrote:
I'm guessing there is only AKL based crews as Kapiti have a company branded Holden for overnighting crews to use. Seen the vehicle at WLG and at Paraparaumu Beach. Only using AKL based crews will certainly add to the expenses when you include the local crew company vehicles.

That’s correct. From what I understand their standard rotation has crews starting in Auckland in the middle of the day, overnighting in one of the detonations, then finishing in Auckland the next day. There may be some exceptions to this though.

V/F


Out of interest then, is 3C increasing their crew numbers of just topping up numbers lost through normal attrition. Jet Connect and Air NZ have both taking crew onboard... I'd imagine 3C would loose a few keen crew members to bigger airlines for obvious reasons.

I don’t know the answer to that sorry. But I have seen they are also hiring ground staff recently.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
NZ6
Posts: 1596
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:03 pm

NZ6 wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

To be honest, if CHT requires a 737. Use one of the many available for regular charter.

But that aside, freight is predominately imports required for those on the island vs sending goods off the island so I'd predict a massive imbalance in cargo movements and with a 737, wouldn't that be extremely costly.

Long-life inbound goods can easily be sent via sea in a container. As for exports, we're talking seafood. The Q300/ATR's do that out of NSN now. This, however, is premium Salmon bound for the Chinese market who pay a premium for it to be fresh. Live crayfish would make for heavy cargo, especially per cray! all other frozen seafood can take its time via shipping container. How much ex CHT needs to be kept fresh and not live or frozen?

It took a quick google search to find this; https://www.chathamislandsshipping.co.nz/ - Their price guide gives some clear clues to what's being sent to/from the area.


I understood, and am happy to be corrected, that there is an abundance of high value Kai Moana in the form of crayfish, paua and blue cod being airlifted out of the Chathams. Fresh tastes best and commands a decent premium.


My understanding is that's their primary export. I'm not disputing that.

None of us really know how much an "abundance" is and how this relates to a 737 being required vs an ATR with a few more trips for example.


An interesting tool to help with the debate. https://fs.fish.govt.nz/Page.aspx?pk=41&tk=99&ey=2019

In 2019, just under 2.5million kg's of seafood reported.

There are so many variables such as seasonal catches and how much you'd load any given aircraft! But for a 737 evenly split over the year, that'd be a couple of trips per week. I would have thought, premium fresh would need to be daily or every second day or is the aircraft going to travel lite.

Looking at the current schedules, summer is daily except Sun across AKL/WLG/CHC and in Winter goes back to 4x per week and only 1 to AKL which is where you'd expect the most demand for export goods.

All I'm saying is it doesn't add up for me.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:42 am

They are the passenger flights only the freighter is operating on top of that. It's the Convair in the albatross livery which takes most of the seafood out of the Chatham islands.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3872
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:33 am

Could an Bae146QC/F do AKL/WLG/CHC-CHT? With an decent payload?

There has been allot of of the newer Arvo RJ85/100 models retired over the last couple of years, which could maybe be converted into freighter (provided they haven’t already become an coke can)
 
User avatar
VirginFlyer
Posts: 5571
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:54 am

How about something totally left field? Passenger Saabs for the passengers and freight Saabs for the freight. No idea how the payload-range performance would stack up, but going to a predominantly Saab fleet could work well in terms of a type that they know, and that is probably able to be acquired reasonably cheaply.

As for the quadrapuff suggested above, interesting idea, but would the runway at CHT be sufficient to operate from with heavy loads, or would it rely on an extension like the 737 would require?

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
zkncj
Posts: 3872
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:35 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
How about something totally left field? Passenger Saabs for the passengers and freight Saabs for the freight. No idea how the payload-range performance would stack up, but going to a predominantly Saab fleet could work well in terms of a type that they know, and that is probably able to be acquired reasonably cheaply.

As for the quadrapuff suggested above, interesting idea, but would the runway at CHT be sufficient to operate from with heavy loads, or would it rely on an extension like the 737 would require?

V/F


Are the Saab 340 and 2000 the same type rating?

The Saab 2000 has an normal operational range of 2800km, with an payload of 5,900kg payload.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:44 am

Here we go the Chatham islands runway is 1360m long. A BAE146 can land but not take off it needs 1595m to take off at max load. So a small extension would be required.
 
darrellpearce
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:19 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:21 am

New Plymouth's new terminal should be operation around March this year. When i was out at the airport on Christmas day the new terminal is looking pretty dam impressive. Can't wait until the open day as well. I will post that info on here when i have it to hand along with the official opening as well. Lets hope Air New Zealand increase ATR capacity to NPL as well. Hopefully originair wrill do well as well. There is also a study to be carried out on the runway as well. Our runway is 1310m.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:55 am

darrellpearce wrote:
New Plymouth's new terminal should be operation around March this year. When i was out at the airport on Christmas day the new terminal is looking pretty dam impressive. Can't wait until the open day as well. I will post that info on here when i have it to hand along with the official opening as well. Lets hope Air New Zealand increase ATR capacity to NPL as well. Hopefully originair wrill do well as well. There is also a study to be carried out on the runway as well. Our runway is 1310m.


The runway is a little bit short as for ATR72 at mtow needs 1367m so are presently not able to take a full load out of New Plymouth. So a small extension would certainly be of benefit.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1596
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:11 pm

NZ516 wrote:
darrellpearce wrote:
New Plymouth's new terminal should be operation around March this year. When i was out at the airport on Christmas day the new terminal is looking pretty dam impressive. Can't wait until the open day as well. I will post that info on here when i have it to hand along with the official opening as well. Lets hope Air New Zealand increase ATR capacity to NPL as well. Hopefully originair wrill do well as well. There is also a study to be carried out on the runway as well. Our runway is 1310m.


The runway is a little bit short as for ATR72 at mtow needs 1367m so are presently not able to take a full load out of New Plymouth. So a small extension would certainly be of benefit.


Did you just google this and get it from Wiki?

Takeoff: 1,367 m (4,485 ft) [MTOW]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATR_72

NPL-AKL is 123nm based on gcmap which is about 15% of the max range listed on atraircraft.com but that also lists the distance for MTOW as 1.8km.

I guess my point is, MTOW includes a full load of fuel which is clearly not required ex NPL. So unless you have access or have found some charts I'm wondering how accurate this is.

http://www.atraircraft.com/products/ATR-72-600.html

I'm not suggesting runway work isn't needed. I honestly don't know and just started looking it up.
 
User avatar
SelandiaBaru
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:39 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:11 pm

NZ516 wrote:
darrellpearce wrote:
New Plymouth's new terminal should be operation around March this year. When i was out at the airport on Christmas day the new terminal is looking pretty dam impressive. Can't wait until the open day as well. I will post that info on here when i have it to hand along with the official opening as well. Lets hope Air New Zealand increase ATR capacity to NPL as well. Hopefully originair wrill do well as well. There is also a study to be carried out on the runway as well. Our runway is 1310m.


The runway is a little bit short as for ATR72 at mtow needs 1367m so are presently not able to take a full load out of New Plymouth. So a small extension would certainly be of benefit.


While the length can sometimes be a bit limiting in NPL for the ATR the real problem is the orientation as the ATR can be quite limited with crosswinds, even "strong and gusty conditions" present operational issues in the air and on the ground.

NPL Airport are looking at options for both extending and re-orientation of the runway so that ATR operations are less disrupted in the future.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1596
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:46 pm

SelandiaBaru wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
darrellpearce wrote:
New Plymouth's new terminal should be operation around March this year. When i was out at the airport on Christmas day the new terminal is looking pretty dam impressive. Can't wait until the open day as well. I will post that info on here when i have it to hand along with the official opening as well. Lets hope Air New Zealand increase ATR capacity to NPL as well. Hopefully originair wrill do well as well. There is also a study to be carried out on the runway as well. Our runway is 1310m.


The runway is a little bit short as for ATR72 at mtow needs 1367m so are presently not able to take a full load out of New Plymouth. So a small extension would certainly be of benefit.


While the length can sometimes be a bit limiting in NPL for the ATR the real problem is the orientation as the ATR can be quite limited with crosswinds, even "strong and gusty conditions" present operational issues in the air and on the ground.

NPL Airport are looking at options for both extending and re-orientation of the runway so that ATR operations are less disrupted in the future.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily- ... ing-option

While potentially correct. This provides another reason to why the change is happening.
 
User avatar
SelandiaBaru
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:39 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:59 pm

NZ6 wrote:
SelandiaBaru wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

The runway is a little bit short as for ATR72 at mtow needs 1367m so are presently not able to take a full load out of New Plymouth. So a small extension would certainly be of benefit.


While the length can sometimes be a bit limiting in NPL for the ATR the real problem is the orientation as the ATR can be quite limited with crosswinds, even "strong and gusty conditions" present operational issues in the air and on the ground.

NPL Airport are looking at options for both extending and re-orientation of the runway so that ATR operations are less disrupted in the future.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily- ... ing-option

While potentially correct. This provides another reason to why the change is happening.


Yes, Wayne was very diplomatic in that piece.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:36 am

NZ6 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
darrellpearce wrote:
New Plymouth's new terminal should be operation around March this year. When i was out at the airport on Christmas day the new terminal is looking pretty dam impressive. Can't wait until the open day as well. I will post that info on here when i have it to hand along with the official opening as well. Lets hope Air New Zealand increase ATR capacity to NPL as well. Hopefully originair wrill do well as well. There is also a study to be carried out on the runway as well. Our runway is 1310m.


The runway is a little bit short as for ATR72 at mtow needs 1367m so are presently not able to take a full load out of New Plymouth. So a small extension would certainly be of benefit.


Did you just google this and get it from Wiki?

Takeoff: 1,367 m (4,485 ft) [MTOW]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATR_72

NPL-AKL is 123nm based on gcmap which is about 15% of the max range listed on atraircraft.com but that also lists the distance for MTOW as 1.8km.

I guess my point is, MTOW includes a full load of fuel which is clearly not required ex NPL. So unless you have access or have found some charts I'm wondering how accurate this is.

http://www.atraircraft.com/products/ATR-72-600.html

I'm not suggesting runway work isn't needed. I honestly don't know and just started looking it up.


Actually I went straight to wiki. The NPL to CHC flights might be more of an issue with the longer route than to AKL. The link on the ATR from the manufacture is a good resource thanks for including it.
 
darrellpearce
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:19 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:37 am

I have the info on me with regards to the runway study with the link as well.https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily- ... ing-option

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos