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eamondzhang
Posts: 1782
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:44 am

xiaotung wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
xiaotung wrote:

Thr QF/NZ alliance is virtually meaningless. It was designed to piss off John Borghetti and nothing more. There is zero benefit to anymore flying from cities with direct flights between the two countries. What's left are the likes of Tauranga and Townsville. How important can they be for NZ?


You are wrong. It's around 250,000 extra passengers annually for the airline so not insignificant. Nothing to do with Borghetti its to put the customers first.


My point is how many of those 250,000 pax would have been interline pax anyway? How many of those are Gold/Elite? I can't imagine too many. Then you are telling me most book NZ/QF combination for the very few extra FFP points? I just don't buy it. Had there not been a QF alliance, those who fly from AKL to HBA would continue to fly NZ whoever they might connect with at the other end.

I don't see NZ doing a deal with every interline partners. Are they not putting their customers first? Competitors on the Tasman and friends on domestic connections? This is ridiculous.

Tell me how many carriers can get you from ABX to AKL? Or how many from NPE to SYD?

You do realise that except the big cities all you have in New Zealand is NZ, and even AA sells NZ domestic tickets right? And you do realise that in Australia there are only two carriers that realistically will do any interline that being QF and VA?

No matter what sort of pax they are or what sort of status they have, even if you only earn $75 per pax (which is about as low as you can get anywhere in QF network ever) it's an extra $18.75 million dollars for the carrier. You call that insignificant. QF and NZ beg to differ. People purchase tickets on one ticket stock not (only) for the sake of FFP and points but more importantly the ability to get from A to B on one ticket and knowing that they are protected if any IRROPS comes up.

If you care about your customer this is exactly what you should do - offer them more choices to more destinations easier. This also comes with the benefit of earning extra pocket money. NOT anything that you mentioned.

And if you think this is bad, why not complain about others like Chinese domestic market, where every carrier collaborate to raise fares?

Michael
 
Qantas16
Posts: 763
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:01 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
It appears that MU will pull out of BNE, though maybe only seasonally. Reservations are not available for BNE-PVG after the 28th of March though are still open for next summer (this is from the MU website, not reflected on the QF website yet).

They typically run a daily flight over the summer and only 3x weekly over winter.


It's up to 10 weekly at certain times over Christmas/CNY this year, although there are only 8 flights this week. Also, I thought it was 4 weekly last winter, not 3? Either way it is definitely a highly seasonal market.


Actually I think you are right about 4x weekly. Either way, it's a loss for BNE.
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:08 am

eamondzhang wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

You are wrong. It's around 250,000 extra passengers annually for the airline so not insignificant. Nothing to do with Borghetti its to put the customers first.


My point is how many of those 250,000 pax would have been interline pax anyway? How many of those are Gold/Elite? I can't imagine too many. Then you are telling me most book NZ/QF combination for the very few extra FFP points? I just don't buy it. Had there not been a QF alliance, those who fly from AKL to HBA would continue to fly NZ whoever they might connect with at the other end.

I don't see NZ doing a deal with every interline partners. Are they not putting their customers first? Competitors on the Tasman and friends on domestic connections? This is ridiculous.

Tell me how many carriers can get you from ABX to AKL? Or how many from NPE to SYD?

You do realise that except the big cities all you have in New Zealand is NZ, and even AA sells NZ domestic tickets right? And you do realise that in Australia there are only two carriers that realistically will do any interline that being QF and VA?

No matter what sort of pax they are or what sort of status they have, even if you only earn $75 per pax (which is about as low as you can get anywhere in QF network ever) it's an extra $18.75 million dollars for the carrier. You call that insignificant. QF and NZ beg to differ. People purchase tickets on one ticket stock not (only) for the sake of FFP and points but more importantly the ability to get from A to B on one ticket and knowing that they are protected if any IRROPS comes up.

If you care about your customer this is exactly what you should do - offer them more choices to more destinations easier. This also comes with the benefit of earning extra pocket money. NOT anything that you mentioned.

And if you think this is bad, why not complain about others like Chinese domestic market, where every carrier collaborate to raise fares?

Michael


Also DL will honor interlines with QF and vice-versa with VA interlining with AA. This is despite all of them being from the "two JV camps" of the AU TransPacific market.

The only odd ones out is that VA and UA doesn't have a current interline agreement, as UA was seen removed from VA's larger interline list as recently as late 2018.
 
myki
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:10 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
Daily Citilink AVV-DPS starting Later this month is official.

https://www.bay939.com.au/news/local-ne ... rt-flights

Very bold move with only a few weeks between announcement and launch.

It also appears that GA have also cut their Wednesday MEL-DPS flight, so it is just diversifying it’s offering into the Melbourne/Victoria market as a group.

Schedule for their daily A320neo as follows:

QG560 DPS 2345 – AVV 0850+1
QG561 AVV 1250 – DPS 1620

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -jan-2020/
 
TG788
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:12 am

I noticed the options offered by CX between DXB-MCT on a journey starting in HKG feature QF codeshares operated by EK. I'm having trouble finding information on how this sort of arrangement works. Would there a formal agreement between QF and CX? Or is it retail-ish with CX booking and paying QF (and in turn EK) as needed? Thanks!
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1073
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:17 am

eamondzhang wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

You are wrong. It's around 250,000 extra passengers annually for the airline so not insignificant. Nothing to do with Borghetti its to put the customers first.


My point is how many of those 250,000 pax would have been interline pax anyway? How many of those are Gold/Elite? I can't imagine too many. Then you are telling me most book NZ/QF combination for the very few extra FFP points? I just don't buy it. Had there not been a QF alliance, those who fly from AKL to HBA would continue to fly NZ whoever they might connect with at the other end.

I don't see NZ doing a deal with every interline partners. Are they not putting their customers first? Competitors on the Tasman and friends on domestic connections? This is ridiculous.

Tell me how many carriers can get you from ABX to AKL? Or how many from NPE to SYD?

You do realise that except the big cities all you have in New Zealand is NZ, and even AA sells NZ domestic tickets right? And you do realise that in Australia there are only two carriers that realistically will do any interline that being QF and VA?

No matter what sort of pax they are or what sort of status they have, even if you only earn $75 per pax (which is about as low as you can get anywhere in QF network ever) it's an extra $18.75 million dollars for the carrier. You call that insignificant. QF and NZ beg to differ. People purchase tickets on one ticket stock not (only) for the sake of FFP and points but more importantly the ability to get from A to B on one ticket and knowing that they are protected if any IRROPS comes up.

If you care about your customer this is exactly what you should do - offer them more choices to more destinations easier. This also comes with the benefit of earning extra pocket money. NOT anything that you mentioned.

And if you think this is bad, why not complain about others like Chinese domestic market, where every carrier collaborate to raise fares?

Michael


What you said is called interline agreements. QF and NZ do not need an alliance to achieve the same. The alliance benefits a connecting customer some FFP points worth around $3-5 and lounge access if he/she has status. I doubt that makes a difference to most pax.

I don't know why you brought up Chinese domestic market where I often find is the best place for some status runs.
 
ben175
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:24 am

Qantas16 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
It appears that MU will pull out of BNE, though maybe only seasonally. Reservations are not available for BNE-PVG after the 28th of March though are still open for next summer (this is from the MU website, not reflected on the QF website yet).

They typically run a daily flight over the summer and only 3x weekly over winter.


It's up to 10 weekly at certain times over Christmas/CNY this year, although there are only 8 flights this week. Also, I thought it was 4 weekly last winter, not 3? Either way it is definitely a highly seasonal market.


Actually I think you are right about 4x weekly. Either way, it's a loss for BNE.


Not good timing considering PER is trying to get their trial services year-round.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8339
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:01 am

ben175 wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

It's up to 10 weekly at certain times over Christmas/CNY this year, although there are only 8 flights this week. Also, I thought it was 4 weekly last winter, not 3? Either way it is definitely a highly seasonal market.


Actually I think you are right about 4x weekly. Either way, it's a loss for BNE.


Not good timing considering PER is trying to get their trial services year-round.


To be honest I already thought that was optimistic before this since BNE does see such large seasonal fluctuation. The PER market would probably be very similar to BNE in this regard. Year-round with CZ and seasonal MU is honestly not a particularly bad outcome for either market.

CZ have the benefit of Guangzhou been the best located hub for Australia-China connections in one large, relatively user friendly terminal, and not having the split PVG/SHA operations that reduces the connection opportunities over PVG. CZ has also been more proactive in the Australia-Europe market (and indeed other international connections outside China) than MU or CA have. While this traffic is probably not very lucrative, it does provide a more solid bed rock of traffic outside of the Christmas-through-CNY peak.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3364
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:18 am

The reality is that BNE is a far smaller market for China demand than SYD or MEL, but it is certainly a big move if MU don’t seem a viable market during much of the year. Adding in CA’s past exit from BNE-PEK, it’s less than ideal.

The business links to SYD and MEL though are in another league, for which PVG is a significant destination. That, along with larger Chinese diaspora populations, helps drive year round demand.

PER may well need to look at just seasonal service, but it would be a big step if they put the capacity that BNE had over that period on the PER route. I guess it may well depend on the deal on the table with stakeholders.
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 568
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:41 pm

I'm hearing that QF will soon announce an A380 for SYD-JNB, allowing retirement of another B747. Apparently loads on QF63 & QF64 are very strong. Will be interesting to see if PER decides to let QF fly an A330 PER-JNB out of 'the Qantas terminal' that QF9 & QF10 uses should SAA pull that flight and/or collapse.
 
redroo
Posts: 578
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:48 pm

All quiet on the PER JNB QF front. Haven’t heard anything.
 
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angusjt
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 4:08 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:53 pm

qf789 wrote:
Qantas currently has one A332 stuck in MNL, requires washing before the next flight since it is covered in ash

https://twitter.com/officialdjmagik/sta ... 38208?s=20


I got subbed to a 737 from an A330 on last nights QF582, must be having some runoff effect
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8339
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:11 am

IndianicWorld wrote:

The business links to SYD and MEL though are in another league, for which PVG is a significant destination. That, along with larger Chinese diaspora populations, helps drive year round demand.


Let's not pretend that the entire China-Australia market isn't highly seasonal. SYD-CAN is 2x A330 for most of the year but is currently 2x A330 plus 1x A380. MU currently have 18 flights per week from PVG-MEL, a market which is 10x for most of the year.

Your point is correct though that the larger local markets and stronger business ties mean that even when demand contracts during the winter there is still enough underlying demand to support year-round flights to SYD and MEL.

IndianicWorld wrote:
PER may well need to look at just seasonal service, but it would be a big step if they put the capacity that BNE had over that period on the PER route. I guess it may well depend on the deal on the table with stakeholders.


IMHO the only way that PER could sustain year round service where BNE failed is with a very generous subsidy package. Perth is a smaller market to China than Brisbane and SEQ. If the state of WA were to put cash on the table then I think MU would fly it. The Chinese carriers flit between secondary markets following the subsidy trail, operating a new route for the minimum amount of time required to collect the full payment. There's no reason to assume they won't do the same with Perth. If there isn't cash on offer then I think MU will fly it seasonally regardless, the Perth market is large enough to support service in peak season.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:14 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
I'm hearing that QF will soon announce an A380 for SYD-JNB, allowing retirement of another B747. Apparently loads on QF63 & QF64 are very strong. Will be interesting to see if PER decides to let QF fly an A330 PER-JNB out of 'the Qantas terminal' that QF9 & QF10 uses should SAA pull that flight and/or collapse.


This was discussed recently. If it happens it will solve the puzzle of what will happen by the end of the year to allow all the 747s to be retired. We just have to wait for the decision on Haneda soon.
 
x1234
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:30 am

QF has high loads on the JNB flight because of NO competition. Every other route on the QF netwrok has competition (Asia, Middle Easter, North & South America). This reminds me of the early 1990's when only QF & UA were on SYD-LAX.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:03 am

Big storm passing through MEL this evening. Looks like lots of aircraft holding and nothing taking off. VA1294 from CNS is diverting to CBR, expect others will follow
Expecting a fun night for passengers
Last edited by jrfspa320 on Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 568
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:28 am

Qantas is cancelling almost one in 10 of its scheduled flights between Sydney and Melbourne every day but has rejected suggestions it is scratching services at short notice just because it hasn't sold enough seats.


https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 53rez.html
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2812
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:35 am

x1234 wrote:
QF has high loads on the JNB flight because of NO competition. Every other route on the QF netwrok has competition (Asia, Middle Easter, North & South America). This reminds me of the early 1990's when only QF & UA were on SYD-LAX.


PER-LHR?
BNE-LAX?
SYD-DFW?
 
smi0006
Posts: 2565
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:49 am

[twoid][/twoid]
CraigAnderson wrote:
Qantas is cancelling almost one in 10 of its scheduled flights between Sydney and Melbourne every day but has rejected suggestions it is scratching services at short notice just because it hasn't sold enough seats.


https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 53rez.html


I doubt they are cancelling it just due to low load factors. But this does show the impact of high frequency short cycles, only a few delays and it takes a cancellation to get the schedule back. I’d also suggest that with so high frequency between all the carriers, plus other network flows into SYD/MEL the system is groaning. Time to go from flights every 15mins back to wide bodies every 30!
 
oskarclare
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:53 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:50 am

Ishrion wrote:
x1234 wrote:
QF has high loads on the JNB flight because of NO competition. Every other route on the QF netwrok has competition (Asia, Middle Easter, North & South America). This reminds me of the early 1990's when only QF & UA were on SYD-LAX.


PER-LHR?
BNE-LAX?
SYD-DFW?


BNE-LAX has competition from VA at 6x weekly
 
qf2048
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:16 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:56 am

eamondzhang wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

You are wrong. It's around 250,000 extra passengers annually for the airline so not insignificant. Nothing to do with Borghetti its to put the customers first.


My point is how many of those 250,000 pax would have been interline pax anyway? How many of those are Gold/Elite? I can't imagine too many. Then you are telling me most book NZ/QF combination for the very few extra FFP points? I just don't buy it. Had there not been a QF alliance, those who fly from AKL to HBA would continue to fly NZ whoever they might connect with at the other end.

I don't see NZ doing a deal with every interline partners. Are they not putting their customers first? Competitors on the Tasman and friends on domestic connections? This is ridiculous.

Tell me how many carriers can get you from ABX to AKL? Or how many from NPE to SYD?

You do realise that except the big cities all you have in New Zealand is NZ, and even AA sells NZ domestic tickets right? And you do realise that in Australia there are only two carriers that realistically will do any interline that being QF and VA?

No matter what sort of pax they are or what sort of status they have, even if you only earn $75 per pax (which is about as low as you can get anywhere in QF network ever) it's an extra $18.75 million dollars for the carrier. You call that insignificant. QF and NZ beg to differ. People purchase tickets on one ticket stock not (only) for the sake of FFP and points but more importantly the ability to get from A to B on one ticket and knowing that they are protected if any IRROPS comes up.

If you care about your customer this is exactly what you should do - offer them more choices to more destinations easier. This also comes with the benefit of earning extra pocket money. NOT anything that you mentioned.

And if you think this is bad, why not complain about others like Chinese domestic market, where every carrier collaborate to raise fares?

Michael



I was recently on QFLink flight to a regional NSW city after connecting off a QF International flight. I noticed a passenger getting on the flight with an Air New Zealand boarding pass with our flight details on it. I used the QF seemless transfer and presume this passenger would have too, which I think is a great service.
All baggage is checked through to final destination and a bus takes you airside to gate 15 in T3. Prior to the alliance this passenger would have had to make the transfer themselves with all their luggage re check in etc..
Not everyone's final destination is a capital city.
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
SYDSpotter
Posts: 888
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:11 am

smi0006 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
CraigAnderson wrote:
Qantas is cancelling almost one in 10 of its scheduled flights between Sydney and Melbourne every day but has rejected suggestions it is scratching services at short notice just because it hasn't sold enough seats.


https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 53rez.html


I doubt they are cancelling it just due to low load factors. But this does show the impact of high frequency short cycles, only a few delays and it takes a cancellation to get the schedule back. I’d also suggest that with so high frequency between all the carriers, plus other network flows into SYD/MEL the system is groaning. Time to go from flights every 15mins back to wide bodies every 30!


I'm not so sure. There are no doubt instances where delays are as a result of technical or other issues but there is very likely to be cancellations just due to low loads.

As you point out, given there are so many frequencies, cancelling 1 flight has minimal impact as passengers can easily be accommodated on the very next flight with little delay. As the aircraft are likely just running SYD-MEL rotations, there are no other routes impacted.
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
smi0006
Posts: 2565
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:13 am

Ishrion wrote:
x1234 wrote:
QF has high loads on the JNB flight because of NO competition. Every other route on the QF netwrok has competition (Asia, Middle Easter, North & South America). This reminds me of the early 1990's when only QF & UA were on SYD-LAX.


PER-LHR?
BNE-LAX?
SYD-DFW?


BNE-LAX has VA. But you could add future state BNE-ORD/SFO. But in this day and age it’s not just about single city markets. I’d argue QF does have competition one stop form SA,SQ,EK who always come up as options when I fly to JNB annually.

I wonder if JNB can support a 380 and a 330 ex-PER. I’d be surprised as I’d have thought QF would capture a lot of MEL/BNE from SYD that they’d have looked to move over PER to support a new service.

Any update on the PAPL QF agreement? I wouldn’t be surprised if once an agreement is announced a 789 top up order occurs in the same announcement perhaps with a deal with the WA government- CDG,FRA? QF negotiates hard, they will have all this bundled together with both deals contingent on many behind the scenes variables.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:18 am

qf2048 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
xiaotung wrote:

My point is how many of those 250,000 pax would have been interline pax anyway? How many of those are Gold/Elite? I can't imagine too many. Then you are telling me most book NZ/QF combination for the very few extra FFP points? I just don't buy it. Had there not been a QF alliance, those who fly from AKL to HBA would continue to fly NZ whoever they might connect with at the other end.

I don't see NZ doing a deal with every interline partners. Are they not putting their customers first? Competitors on the Tasman and friends on domestic connections? This is ridiculous.

Tell me how many carriers can get you from ABX to AKL? Or how many from NPE to SYD?

You do realise that except the big cities all you have in New Zealand is NZ, and even AA sells NZ domestic tickets right? And you do realise that in Australia there are only two carriers that realistically will do any interline that being QF and VA?

No matter what sort of pax they are or what sort of status they have, even if you only earn $75 per pax (which is about as low as you can get anywhere in QF network ever) it's an extra $18.75 million dollars for the carrier. You call that insignificant. QF and NZ beg to differ. People purchase tickets on one ticket stock not (only) for the sake of FFP and points but more importantly the ability to get from A to B on one ticket and knowing that they are protected if any IRROPS comes up.

If you care about your customer this is exactly what you should do - offer them more choices to more destinations easier. This also comes with the benefit of earning extra pocket money. NOT anything that you mentioned.

And if you think this is bad, why not complain about others like Chinese domestic market, where every carrier collaborate to raise fares?

Michael



I was recently on QFLink flight to a regional NSW city after connecting off a QF International flight. I noticed a passenger getting on the flight with an Air New Zealand boarding pass with our flight details on it. I used the QF seemless transfer and presume this passenger would have too, which I think is a great service.
All baggage is checked through to final destination and a bus takes you airside to gate 15 in T3. Prior to the alliance this passenger would have had to make the transfer themselves with all their luggage re check in etc..
Not everyone's final destination is a capital city.


Sure but are there enough of those passengers to really matter? Maybe but I wouldn't lose sleep over it if I've got an interline and service 99% of my passenger base just fine.

That does sound like an amazing service though. You mean you didn't have to collect luggage and go through customs screening with it and re check in at the transfer desk in the International terminal? I thought that was mandatory for luggage given regional centres don't have customs facilities.
 
TN486T
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:20 am

Re storms in MEL 1600 - 1800 local this evening. 23 diversions I have picked up so far, I may have missed some.
QF1014 HBA - MEL back to HBA...VA 274 CBR MEL div to ADL...ANZ 865 ZQN MEL enroute to SYD...TGG 243 SYD MEL back to SYD...QF 443 SYD MEL back to SYD...TGG 683 CBR MEL back to CBR...QF 772 PER MEL div to SYD...VA 738 OOL MEL div to SYD...VA 1294 CNS MEL div to CBR...VA 850 SYD MEL div to CBR...VA 1594 NTL MEL div to SYD...QF 2054 DPO MEL div to ALB...VA 1371 LST MEL div to ADL...QF476 PER MEL div to ADL...QF797 ASP MEL div to ADL...QF 703 CNS MEL div to SYD...SH 923 KNA MEB div to AVV...JQ714 HBA MEL back to HBA...JQ477 NTL MEL div to SYD...QF623 BNE MEL div to CBR...SQ207 SIN MEL div to ADL??? QF445 SYD MEL div to CBR and QF447 SYD MEL div to CBR. Maybe a couple of errors there, but I think you may just get the havoc. cheers.
 
VapourTrails
Posts: 3939
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2001 9:30 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:34 am

TN486T wrote:
Re storms in MEL 1600 - 1800 local this evening. 23 diversions I have picked up so far, I may have missed some.
QF1014 HBA - MEL back to HBA...VA 274 CBR MEL div to ADL...ANZ 865 ZQN MEL enroute to SYD...TGG 243 SYD MEL back to SYD...QF 443 SYD MEL back to SYD...TGG 683 CBR MEL back to CBR...QF 772 PER MEL div to SYD...VA 738 OOL MEL div to SYD...VA 1294 CNS MEL div to CBR...VA 850 SYD MEL div to CBR...VA 1594 NTL MEL div to SYD...QF 2054 DPO MEL div to ALB...VA 1371 LST MEL div to ADL...QF476 PER MEL div to ADL...QF797 ASP MEL div to ADL...QF 703 CNS MEL div to SYD...SH 923 KNA MEB div to AVV...JQ714 HBA MEL back to HBA...JQ477 NTL MEL div to SYD...QF623 BNE MEL div to CBR...SQ207 SIN MEL div to ADL??? QF445 SYD MEL div to CBR and QF447 SYD MEL div to CBR. Maybe a couple of errors there, but I think you may just get the havoc. cheers.


Thanks, that is quite a few there. VA858 returned to SYD and VA96 CHC Christchurch diverted to CBR. QF172 WLG Wellington diverted to SYD (all B737-800). The two New Zealand flights made it to (over) MEL before diverting, the SYD flight did two sets of holding patterns over Bright before returning. ~ Weather at CBR is good, and visibility as well at the moment, which makes a pleasant change. :thumbsup:
 
TN486T
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:58 am

https://www.flightradar24.com/JST1/23870c23 Just to rub salt into the wound.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:23 am

TN486T wrote:
https://www.flightradar24.com/JST1/23870c23 Just to rub salt into the wound.


Lightning strike on departure so I heard.




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Captdasbomb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:55 pm

redroo wrote:
All quiet on the PER JNB QF front. Haven’t heard anything.


Hopefully SAA get their act together & throw in 1 of their new A350s
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:08 pm

Sydscott wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
NZ516 wrote:

You are wrong. It's around 250,000 extra passengers annually for the airline so not insignificant. Nothing to do with Borghetti its to put the customers first.


My point is how many of those 250,000 pax would have been interline pax anyway? How many of those are Gold/Elite? I can't imagine too many. Then you are telling me most book NZ/QF combination for the very few extra FFP points? I just don't buy it. Had there not been a QF alliance, those who fly from AKL to HBA would continue to fly NZ whoever they might connect with at the other end.

I don't see NZ doing a deal with every interline partners. Are they not putting their customers first? Competitors on the Tasman and friends on domestic connections? This is ridiculous.


The point of the deal is that the 2 airlines with the biggest domestic networks can effectively transfer pax onto each others networks in preference to others and it also plus NZ into the Qantas Frequent Flyer Program and allows QFF's to earn and burn points and status credits. Given the size and strength of QFF vs Velocity and the relative size of the QF Group vs Virgin Group this would be a large net benefit for NZ. For QF it gives them alot more network coverage in NZ which strengthens them.

NZ would also be foolish not to do a deal with Virgin and have them selling NZ tickets as well. Why not link with both Aussie Carriers and get the best of both? Sounds like a profitable plan to me!


As was posted earlier, the hostilities between NZ and VA had since thawed since the management changeover at both companies. NZ and VA are now selling interline fares on each others websites again, making it easier for those missing the NZ/VA "relationship".

While it's not the old Codeshare/FF/Lounge Reciprocation deal, the interline deal should be 'good enough' for those missing the VA/NZ relationship.
You should be able to claim FF points separately on the VA and NZ websites on their respective FF programs. Just like the "old days".

The QF/NZ agreement is likely to remain the status quo for the foreseeable future. Any extra VA interline passengers is just a "bonus" for NZ.
 
vossitch
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:46 pm

VapourTrails wrote:
TN486T wrote:
Re storms in MEL 1600 - 1800 local this evening. 23 diversions I have picked up so far, I may have missed some.
QF1014 HBA - MEL back to HBA...VA 274 CBR MEL div to ADL...ANZ 865 ZQN MEL enroute to SYD...TGG 243 SYD MEL back to SYD...QF 443 SYD MEL back to SYD...TGG 683 CBR MEL back to CBR...QF 772 PER MEL div to SYD...VA 738 OOL MEL div to SYD...VA 1294 CNS MEL div to CBR...VA 850 SYD MEL div to CBR...VA 1594 NTL MEL div to SYD...QF 2054 DPO MEL div to ALB...VA 1371 LST MEL div to ADL...QF476 PER MEL div to ADL...QF797 ASP MEL div to ADL...QF 703 CNS MEL div to SYD...SH 923 KNA MEB div to AVV...JQ714 HBA MEL back to HBA...JQ477 NTL MEL div to SYD...QF623 BNE MEL div to CBR...SQ207 SIN MEL div to ADL??? QF445 SYD MEL div to CBR and QF447 SYD MEL div to CBR. Maybe a couple of errors there, but I think you may just get the havoc. cheers.


Thanks, that is quite a few there. VA858 returned to SYD and VA96 CHC Christchurch diverted to CBR. QF172 WLG Wellington diverted to SYD (all B737-800). The two New Zealand flights made it to (over) MEL before diverting, the SYD flight did two sets of holding patterns over Bright before returning. ~ Weather at CBR is good, and visibility as well at the moment, which makes a pleasant change.
Sydney's turn today due to storms... VA2 is heading to Brisbane.

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aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:53 am

smi0006 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
CraigAnderson wrote:
Qantas is cancelling almost one in 10 of its scheduled flights between Sydney and Melbourne every day but has rejected suggestions it is scratching services at short notice just because it hasn't sold enough seats.


https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 53rez.html


I doubt they are cancelling it just due to low load factors. But this does show the impact of high frequency short cycles, only a few delays and it takes a cancellation to get the schedule back. I’d also suggest that with so high frequency between all the carriers, plus other network flows into SYD/MEL the system is groaning. Time to go from flights every 15mins back to wide bodies every 30!


I think it's almost certain that both QF and VA cancel services on this route because of loads. The systemwide cancellation rate is just over 2 per cent, yet it spikes on the SYD-MEL corridor to 9.5% on Qantas and 6% on VA.

QF runs more 15-minute schedules and operates more widebodies, whereas VA has a lower frequency and almost exclusively uses 737s. So QF has more flexibility to accommodate bumped pax - if you have a half full 737 and a half full A330 operating next to each other, of course you'd look to save money via cancellation of the 737. I'd say both are guilty of this but Qantas moreso.

I noticed a spike in nixed flights by QF two years ago, just before work switched over to VA. It was never a major inconvenience in terms of departure time with no more than about a 30 minute delay, though detested arriving back in Melbourne around midnight and having to wait for 300 other pax to disembark and collect bags etc. At that time of night you start to feel it.
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:08 am

vossitch wrote:
Sydney's turn today due to storms... VA2 is heading to Brisbane.


UA839 and AA73 both diverted to CBR.
 
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rtav
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:21 am

Captdasbomb wrote:
redroo wrote:
All quiet on the PER JNB QF front. Haven’t heard anything.


Hopefully SAA get their act together & throw in 1 of their new A350s


South African are selling 9 of their Airbus A340’s as part of their restructuring. Perth will probably see a decrease in capacity and possibly frequency.

https://simpleflying.com/saa-a340-sale/
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:38 am

x1234 wrote:
QF has high loads on the JNB flight because of NO competition. Every other route on the QF netwrok has competition (Asia, Middle Easter, North & South America). This reminds me of the early 1990's when only QF & UA were on SYD-LAX.


Also gets an healthy connection feed from AKL to/from that flight, its an great monopoly for Qantas to have.

You could be forgiven thinking you're on the South African domestic flight when you're on QF147.
 
waoz1
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:09 am

rtav wrote:
Captdasbomb wrote:
redroo wrote:
All quiet on the PER JNB QF front. Haven’t heard anything.


Hopefully SAA get their act together & throw in 1 of their new A350s


South African are selling 9 of their Airbus A340’s as part of their restructuring. Perth will probably see a decrease in capacity and possibly frequency.

https://simpleflying.com/saa-a340-sale/


Reducing capacity into Perth would be kind of strange seeing Perth is one of SAA's best performers. Would not go to helping them get out of the mess they are currently in.
 
BAeRJ100
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:28 am

rtav wrote:
South African are selling 9 of their Airbus A340’s as part of their restructuring. Perth will probably see a decrease in capacity and possibly frequency.

https://simpleflying.com/saa-a340-sale/


Maybe, maybe not. A quick glance at their -300 utilisation alone shows only 2 frames have flown in the last 3 days. Some haven't flown in weeks.
B737/738/739/744ER/752/753/763/77L/77W/788/789
A223/320/321/332/333/346/359/388
MD82/MD88/717/F100/RJ85/RJ100/146-100/200/300
E175/190/CRJ700/900
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:56 am

BAeRJ100 wrote:
rtav wrote:
South African are selling 9 of their Airbus A340’s as part of their restructuring. Perth will probably see a decrease in capacity and possibly frequency.

https://simpleflying.com/saa-a340-sale/


Maybe, maybe not. A quick glance at their -300 utilisation alone shows only 2 frames have flown in the last 3 days. Some haven't flown in weeks.


SAA has one of the worst use of aircraft use, they have about 17 A340 and only need a third for their operations, with the A350 and A330 it is enough for JFK, IAD, LHR, PER, FRA, MUC, HKG, GRU
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG
 
qf2048
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:33 am

That does sound like an amazing service though. You mean you didn't have to collect luggage and go through customs screening with it and re check in at the transfer desk in the International terminal? I thought that was mandatory for luggage given regional centres don't have customs facilities.[/quote]

We had to clear customs in SYD like everyone else. Our luggage was tagged to our final destination and we received all our boarding passes (3) at the originating port. After clearing customs we just headed to the domestic transfer which is in effect is a bag drop. Saved about a hour I believe compared to transferring your self.
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
Captdasbomb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:06 am

rtav wrote:
Captdasbomb wrote:
redroo wrote:
All quiet on the PER JNB QF front. Haven’t heard anything.


Hopefully SAA get their act together & throw in 1 of their new A350s


South African are selling 9 of their Airbus A340’s as part of their restructuring. Perth will probably see a decrease in capacity and possibly frequency.

https://simpleflying.com/saa-a340-sale/


Highly doubt they can afford a reduction in frequency. Might have to retime it rather than have it sitting on ground for close to 12 hours in Perth
 
Captdasbomb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:44 am

Looks like wet weather landings have been suspended at Newman airport after last weeks incident with NHY.
Fiction testing will be conducted over the next 2 weeks. Excess build up of rubber build up apparently.
 
Williamsb747
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:06 pm

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
BAeRJ100 wrote:
rtav wrote:
South African are selling 9 of their Airbus A340’s as part of their restructuring. Perth will probably see a decrease in capacity and possibly frequency.

https://simpleflying.com/saa-a340-sale/


Maybe, maybe not. A quick glance at their -300 utilisation alone shows only 2 frames have flown in the last 3 days. Some haven't flown in weeks.


SAA has one of the worst use of aircraft use, they have about 17 A340 and only need a third for their operations, with the A350 and A330 it is enough for JFK, IAD, LHR, PER, FRA, MUC, HKG, GRU


Airlines flying to and from JNB have the worst aircraft utilisation ; BA has 2 A380, LH group has 1 B748 and 1 340/330, AF has 1 A380, even Alitalia has an a330 all of which sit for close to 12 hours in JNB throw in CPT and you have an additional 2 B747 and 1 A340, but can this still be horrible aircraft use if this is what market dictates no. SAA follows the market trend, is it poor aircraft utilisation in a general sense yes, but for the market no.
B747>A340>A350>B777>MD11>B767>B757>MD88/90>B787>A380>A330>A220>A320>B737.
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EK413
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Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:36 pm

Williamsb747 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:
BAeRJ100 wrote:

Maybe, maybe not. A quick glance at their -300 utilisation alone shows only 2 frames have flown in the last 3 days. Some haven't flown in weeks.


SAA has one of the worst use of aircraft use, they have about 17 A340 and only need a third for their operations, with the A350 and A330 it is enough for JFK, IAD, LHR, PER, FRA, MUC, HKG, GRU


Airlines flying to and from JNB have the worst aircraft utilisation ; BA has 2 A380, LH group has 1 B748 and 1 340/330, AF has 1 A380, even Alitalia has an a330 all of which sit for close to 12 hours in JNB throw in CPT and you have an additional 2 B747 and 1 A340, but can this still be horrible aircraft use if this is what market dictates no. SAA follows the market trend, is it poor aircraft utilisation in a general sense yes, but for the market no.


The extended ground time isn’t terrible scheduling or aircraft utilisation as airlines need to schedule flights to provide a convenient onward connection to their domestic network. Pointless scheduling an aircraft to turn around upon arrival in JNB and arrive into LHR as e.g 1am when the airport is closed.

Qantas have 2 x A380 sitting at LAX for over 12 hours everyday and this isn’t terrible scheduling, the ground time is utilised to carry out routine maintenance work & again the late night departure means an AM arrival for connections to their Trans Tasman, Domestic and Regional network.


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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:21 pm

EK413 wrote:
Williamsb747 wrote:
RainerBoeing777 wrote:

SAA has one of the worst use of aircraft use, they have about 17 A340 and only need a third for their operations, with the A350 and A330 it is enough for JFK, IAD, LHR, PER, FRA, MUC, HKG, GRU


Airlines flying to and from JNB have the worst aircraft utilisation ; BA has 2 A380, LH group has 1 B748 and 1 340/330, AF has 1 A380, even Alitalia has an a330 all of which sit for close to 12 hours in JNB throw in CPT and you have an additional 2 B747 and 1 A340, but can this still be horrible aircraft use if this is what market dictates no. SAA follows the market trend, is it poor aircraft utilisation in a general sense yes, but for the market no.


The extended ground time isn’t terrible scheduling or aircraft utilisation as airlines need to schedule flights to provide a convenient onward connection to their domestic network. Pointless scheduling an aircraft to turn around upon arrival in JNB and arrive into LHR as e.g 1am when the airport is closed.

Qantas have 2 x A380 sitting at LAX for over 12 hours everyday and this isn’t terrible scheduling, the ground time is utilised to carry out routine maintenance work & again the late night departure means an AM arrival for connections to their Trans Tasman, Domestic and Regional network.


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Do the other carriers do anything in JNB for MX or is it like QF and HND, the aircraft sits all day and waits till the night flight return?
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:37 pm

qf2220 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Williamsb747 wrote:

Airlines flying to and from JNB have the worst aircraft utilisation ; BA has 2 A380, LH group has 1 B748 and 1 340/330, AF has 1 A380, even Alitalia has an a330 all of which sit for close to 12 hours in JNB throw in CPT and you have an additional 2 B747 and 1 A340, but can this still be horrible aircraft use if this is what market dictates no. SAA follows the market trend, is it poor aircraft utilisation in a general sense yes, but for the market no.


The extended ground time isn’t terrible scheduling or aircraft utilisation as airlines need to schedule flights to provide a convenient onward connection to their domestic network. Pointless scheduling an aircraft to turn around upon arrival in JNB and arrive into LHR as e.g 1am when the airport is closed.

Qantas have 2 x A380 sitting at LAX for over 12 hours everyday and this isn’t terrible scheduling, the ground time is utilised to carry out routine maintenance work & again the late night departure means an AM arrival for connections to their Trans Tasman, Domestic and Regional network.


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Do the other carriers do anything in JNB for MX or is it like QF and HND, the aircraft sits all day and waits till the night flight return?


Whether or not other carriers utilise the extended ground time is up to each carrier, I used QF as an e.g simply cause I know this is fact. Yes, the HND schedule means a B747 spends 12 hrs on the ground but again it comes down to the return arrival time which could have gate limitations, curfew etc.


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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:59 pm

EK413 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
EK413 wrote:

The extended ground time isn’t terrible scheduling or aircraft utilisation as airlines need to schedule flights to provide a convenient onward connection to their domestic network. Pointless scheduling an aircraft to turn around upon arrival in JNB and arrive into LHR as e.g 1am when the airport is closed.

Qantas have 2 x A380 sitting at LAX for over 12 hours everyday and this isn’t terrible scheduling, the ground time is utilised to carry out routine maintenance work & again the late night departure means an AM arrival for connections to their Trans Tasman, Domestic and Regional network.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do the other carriers do anything in JNB for MX or is it like QF and HND, the aircraft sits all day and waits till the night flight return?


Whether or not other carriers utilise the extended ground time is up to each carrier, I used QF as an e.g simply cause I know this is fact. Yes, the HND schedule means a B747 spends 12 hrs on the ground but again it comes down to the return arrival time which could have gate limitations, curfew etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry mine was a question, not a pointed statement. Generally curious as to what these carriers might or might not do with the time.
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:52 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
Sydscott wrote:
xiaotung wrote:

My point is how many of those 250,000 pax would have been interline pax anyway? How many of those are Gold/Elite? I can't imagine too many. Then you are telling me most book NZ/QF combination for the very few extra FFP points? I just don't buy it. Had there not been a QF alliance, those who fly from AKL to HBA would continue to fly NZ whoever they might connect with at the other end.

I don't see NZ doing a deal with every interline partners. Are they not putting their customers first? Competitors on the Tasman and friends on domestic connections? This is ridiculous.


The point of the deal is that the 2 airlines with the biggest domestic networks can effectively transfer pax onto each others networks in preference to others and it also plus NZ into the Qantas Frequent Flyer Program and allows QFF's to earn and burn points and status credits. Given the size and strength of QFF vs Velocity and the relative size of the QF Group vs Virgin Group this would be a large net benefit for NZ. For QF it gives them alot more network coverage in NZ which strengthens them.

NZ would also be foolish not to do a deal with Virgin and have them selling NZ tickets as well. Why not link with both Aussie Carriers and get the best of both? Sounds like a profitable plan to me!


As was posted earlier, the hostilities between NZ and VA had since thawed since the management changeover at both companies. NZ and VA are now selling interline fares on each others websites again, making it easier for those missing the NZ/VA "relationship".

While it's not the old Codeshare/FF/Lounge Reciprocation deal, the interline deal should be 'good enough' for those missing the VA/NZ relationship.
You should be able to claim FF points separately on the VA and NZ websites on their respective FF programs. Just like the "old days".

The QF/NZ agreement is likely to remain the status quo for the foreseeable future. Any extra VA interline passengers is just a "bonus" for NZ.


Being the main domestic carrier, NZ would be in big trouble if they tried to restrict selling interline fares to competitors. However you don’t earn Velocity points flying on a NZ flight number.

Same way QF has to interline with virtually every airline.
I'm that bad type.
 
getluv
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:32 pm

QF starting daily SYD-BNK flights on 29 March on a Q300. Just testing the market to start with I guess.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... byron-bay/
I'm that bad type.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:57 am

getluv wrote:
QF starting daily SYD-BNK flights on 29 March on a Q300. Just testing the market to start with I guess.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... byron-bay/

In my opinion, this is a strange decision. JQ was established to primarily serve tourist routes though this has changed over time with lots of wingtip flying between the 2 airlines. You could argue that this new flight is because higher yielding pax don't want a JQ experience but I don't know that bumping around for 90 minutes on a 20 year old Dash 8 is a particularly premium experience. Were QF offering a 737 to compete against VA's, I'd get it; at the moment I'm just bemused.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
PA515
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:18 am

tullamarine wrote:
getluv wrote:
QF starting daily SYD-BNK flights on 29 March on a Q300. Just testing the market to start with I guess.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... byron-bay/

In my opinion, this is a strange decision. JQ was established to primarily serve tourist routes though this has changed over time with lots of wingtip flying between the 2 airlines. You could argue that this new flight is because higher yielding pax don't want a JQ experience but I don't know that bumping around for 90 minutes on a 20 year old Dash 8 is a particularly premium experience. Were QF offering a 737 to compete against VA's, I'd get it; at the moment I'm just bemused.


These flights are for the local population, not visitors. The Q300 will overnight at BNK giving an early morning departure and an evening arrival.

PA515
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