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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8272
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:21 am

tullamarine wrote:
getluv wrote:
QF starting daily SYD-BNK flights on 29 March on a Q300. Just testing the market to start with I guess.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... byron-bay/

In my opinion, this is a strange decision. JQ was established to primarily serve tourist routes though this has changed over time with lots of wingtip flying between the 2 airlines. You could argue that this new flight is because higher yielding pax don't want a JQ experience but I don't know that bumping around for 90 minutes on a 20 year old Dash 8 is a particularly premium experience. Were QF offering a 737 to compete against VA's, I'd get it; at the moment I'm just bemused.


BNE-HTI is a Q400 against JQ/VA. The real baked on loyalists will fly Qantas regardless, and QF are just looking for the 50 or so people who will pay a premium price for the "privilege".

It's a very low risk strategy. They have surplus aircraft returning from New Zealand. If there aren't enough people willing to pay extra for QF they can easily walk away from the market, whereas if it works out they can look to transition to a 717 down the track.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
zkncj
Posts: 3815
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:49 am

getluv wrote:
QF starting daily SYD-BNK flights on 29 March on a Q300. Just testing the market to start with I guess.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... byron-bay/


With fares staring at $119AUD, much better use of the assets returned from JQ.

AKL-NSN’s (Approximately the same distance) lead in fare on JQ was $29NZD (27.90AUD).

Instantly around an 75% increase on revenue on the cheapest fares, those JQ Regional q300s must of been an massive loss maker.
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 577
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:42 am

getluv wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Sydscott wrote:

The point of the deal is that the 2 airlines with the biggest domestic networks can effectively transfer pax onto each others networks in preference to others and it also plus NZ into the Qantas Frequent Flyer Program and allows QFF's to earn and burn points and status credits. Given the size and strength of QFF vs Velocity and the relative size of the QF Group vs Virgin Group this would be a large net benefit for NZ. For QF it gives them alot more network coverage in NZ which strengthens them.

NZ would also be foolish not to do a deal with Virgin and have them selling NZ tickets as well. Why not link with both Aussie Carriers and get the best of both? Sounds like a profitable plan to me!


As was posted earlier, the hostilities between NZ and VA had since thawed since the management changeover at both companies. NZ and VA are now selling interline fares on each others websites again, making it easier for those missing the NZ/VA "relationship".

While it's not the old Codeshare/FF/Lounge Reciprocation deal, the interline deal should be 'good enough' for those missing the VA/NZ relationship.
You should be able to claim FF points separately on the VA and NZ websites on their respective FF programs. Just like the "old days".

The QF/NZ agreement is likely to remain the status quo for the foreseeable future. Any extra VA interline passengers is just a "bonus" for NZ.


Being the main domestic carrier, NZ would be in big trouble if they tried to restrict selling interline fares to competitors. However you don’t earn Velocity points flying on a NZ flight number.

Same way QF has to interline with virtually every airline.


Many FFs would have more than 1 FF membership, interline agreements at the bare minimum would allow them to claim points separately on the 2 airlines (although as you pointed out, it cannot be reciprocated/claimed on the one card like the FF/JV agreements).

IIRC, the bare minimum for an interline agreement is selling interline fares through third party websites and both airlines in the agreement accepting those fares for baggage interlining purposes. Many interline agreements also meets the bare minimum.

VA/NZ interline agreement post breakup whiilst CL and JB were still CEOs at NZ and VA was agreed upon with the bare minimum standards (selling interline fares through third parties only).

Since JB and CL departed, both new CEOs at VA and NZ had agreed to enable interline fares to be sold through each other's airlines websites again.
 
Williamsb747
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:32 am

qf2220 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

Do the other carriers do anything in JNB for MX or is it like QF and HND, the aircraft sits all day and waits till the night flight return?


Whether or not other carriers utilise the extended ground time is up to each carrier, I used QF as an e.g simply cause I know this is fact. Yes, the HND schedule means a B747 spends 12 hrs on the ground but again juit comes down to the return arrival time which could have gate limitations, curfew etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry mine was a question, not a pointed statement. Generally curious as to what these carriers might or might not do with the time.



IIRC LH has Lufthansa technik in JNB to carry out maintenance, not sure about any other carriers though.
B747>A340>A350>B777>MD11>B767>B757>MD88/90>B787>A380>A330>A220>A320>B737.
CPT JNB
 
ben175
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:46 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
getluv wrote:
QF starting daily SYD-BNK flights on 29 March on a Q300. Just testing the market to start with I guess.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... byron-bay/

In my opinion, this is a strange decision. JQ was established to primarily serve tourist routes though this has changed over time with lots of wingtip flying between the 2 airlines. You could argue that this new flight is because higher yielding pax don't want a JQ experience but I don't know that bumping around for 90 minutes on a 20 year old Dash 8 is a particularly premium experience. Were QF offering a 737 to compete against VA's, I'd get it; at the moment I'm just bemused.


BNE-HTI is a Q400 against JQ/VA. The real baked on loyalists will fly Qantas regardless, and QF are just looking for the 50 or so people who will pay a premium price for the "privilege".

It's a very low risk strategy. They have surplus aircraft returning from New Zealand. If there aren't enough people willing to pay extra for QF they can easily walk away from the market, whereas if it works out they can look to transition to a 717 down the track.


When I went to Byron last year, I flew QF to OOL in J and drove down so I could get status credits and points. Byron has a bunch of 5 star resorts now, and a huge array of villas/rentals that cater to a premium market.
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 540
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:40 am

ANA has released details of its second 'mostly daytime' SYD-HND flight.

NH890: departing Sydney at noon, arriving into Tokyo/Haneda at 8.30pm
NH889: departing Tokyo/Haneda at 8.45am, arriving into Sydney at 7.10pm

This means SYD-HND will have four daily flights: 2 x ANA, 1 x JAL and 1 x QF. Hope there's sufficient demand in the long run, but for now, bring on the price war!

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... march-2020
 
Qantas16
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Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:46 am

ben175 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
In my opinion, this is a strange decision. JQ was established to primarily serve tourist routes though this has changed over time with lots of wingtip flying between the 2 airlines. You could argue that this new flight is because higher yielding pax don't want a JQ experience but I don't know that bumping around for 90 minutes on a 20 year old Dash 8 is a particularly premium experience. Were QF offering a 737 to compete against VA's, I'd get it; at the moment I'm just bemused.


BNE-HTI is a Q400 against JQ/VA. The real baked on loyalists will fly Qantas regardless, and QF are just looking for the 50 or so people who will pay a premium price for the "privilege".

It's a very low risk strategy. They have surplus aircraft returning from New Zealand. If there aren't enough people willing to pay extra for QF they can easily walk away from the market, whereas if it works out they can look to transition to a 717 down the track.


When I went to Byron last year, I flew QF to OOL in J and drove down so I could get status credits and points. Byron has a bunch of 5 star resorts now, and a huge array of villas/rentals that cater to a premium market.


Which is great, but not sure 'regular' SYD-BNK travellers will love the Dash 8 vs a VA 737 or even a JQ A320. But we will see. Expensive operation with the crew overnighting in BNK each flight... but with only 50 seats to fill, they can likely fill this on pax connecting ex-SYD internationally on QF alone most days so a relatively safe bet.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:04 am

getluv wrote:
QF starting daily SYD-BNK flights on 29 March on a Q300. Just testing the market to start with I guess.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... byron-bay/


I suppose low risk option with a Q300 and also uses up capacity that is coming back from JQ regional. I think some people would prefer QF over JQ even if it’s a Dash, they like their lounge etc - and maybe connections.
 
QF64
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:25 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:04 am

smi0006 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
x1234 wrote:
QF has high loads on the JNB flight because of NO competition. Every other route on the QF netwrok has competition (Asia, Middle Easter, North & South America). This reminds me of the early 1990's when only QF & UA were on SYD-LAX.


PER-LHR?
BNE-LAX?
SYD-DFW?


BNE-LAX has VA. But you could add future state BNE-ORD/SFO. But in this day and age it’s not just about single city markets. I’d argue QF does have competition one stop form SA,SQ,EK who always come up as options when I fly to JNB annually.

I wonder if JNB can support a 380 and a 330 ex-PER. I’d be surprised as I’d have thought QF would capture a lot of MEL/BNE from SYD that they’d have looked to move over PER to support a new service.

Any update on the PAPL QF agreement? I wouldn’t be surprised if once an agreement is announced a 789 top up order occurs in the same announcement perhaps with a deal with the WA government- CDG,FRA? QF negotiates hard, they will have all this bundled together with both deals contingent on many behind the scenes variables.


Long time lurker here, and frequent user of the QF63/64. I'd have though that a 380 would be too much capacity on this route - certainly daily, even being a monopoly. Scaling it down to 4-5 pw also presents its own problems. I was lucky enough to sit up front in the days when these flights had an F product, and loads were never consistently great. Fares are also considerably high on this route even in the lower seasons.

Given QFs now premium focused approach I'd think a 789 SYD-JNB, once equipment becomes available, would be perfect to cover the premium end of the market. Then add in a PER-JNB 332 (once PAPL dispute settled) to pick up the O&D and the lower yields that get left behind in SYD. That would likely decimate SA, whose passengers are flying mostly out of necessity.

CPT is another consideration, and I know this is slated for PS sometime. There is always (anecdotally anyway) a large number of passengers connecting to CPT services on SA/BA from QF63. If the fares really are that high yielding, perhaps PER-JNB could seasonally extend to CPT and be timed to feed from QF63. SQ have done this daily for a while, and with relatively short turnarounds (~ an hour in each port). CPT gets huge bumps in capacity over summer, granted mostly from EU3 & ME3, though SQ and CX do feature direct options. Wesgro have been pushing hard to provide incentives for carriers to start new services, as they have with UA from EWR this summer, so I'm sure QF could find some support there.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:12 am

tullamarine wrote:
getluv wrote:
QF starting daily SYD-BNK flights on 29 March on a Q300. Just testing the market to start with I guess.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... byron-bay/

In my opinion, this is a strange decision. JQ was established to primarily serve tourist routes though this has changed over time with lots of wingtip flying between the 2 airlines. You could argue that this new flight is because higher yielding pax don't want a JQ experience but I don't know that bumping around for 90 minutes on a 20 year old Dash 8 is a particularly premium experience. Were QF offering a 737 to compete against VA's, I'd get it; at the moment I'm just bemused.

I think there's also an element that when QF gets the JQ Q300 back they had a bit of difficulty trying to find a suitable market and hence opening up a few routes here and there to increase the utilisation (while also tapping onto some previously underserved or relatively lower-yielding market)

Michael
 
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qf2220
Posts: 1947
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:40 pm

QF64 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

PER-LHR?
BNE-LAX?
SYD-DFW?


BNE-LAX has VA. But you could add future state BNE-ORD/SFO. But in this day and age it’s not just about single city markets. I’d argue QF does have competition one stop form SA,SQ,EK who always come up as options when I fly to JNB annually.

I wonder if JNB can support a 380 and a 330 ex-PER. I’d be surprised as I’d have thought QF would capture a lot of MEL/BNE from SYD that they’d have looked to move over PER to support a new service.

Any update on the PAPL QF agreement? I wouldn’t be surprised if once an agreement is announced a 789 top up order occurs in the same announcement perhaps with a deal with the WA government- CDG,FRA? QF negotiates hard, they will have all this bundled together with both deals contingent on many behind the scenes variables.


Long time lurker here, and frequent user of the QF63/64. I'd have though that a 380 would be too much capacity on this route - certainly daily, even being a monopoly. Scaling it down to 4-5 pw also presents its own problems. I was lucky enough to sit up front in the days when these flights had an F product, and loads were never consistently great. Fares are also considerably high on this route even in the lower seasons.

Given QFs now premium focused approach I'd think a 789 SYD-JNB, once equipment becomes available, would be perfect to cover the premium end of the market. Then add in a PER-JNB 332 (once PAPL dispute settled) to pick up the O&D and the lower yields that get left behind in SYD. That would likely decimate SA, whose passengers are flying mostly out of necessity.

CPT is another consideration, and I know this is slated for PS sometime. There is always (anecdotally anyway) a large number of passengers connecting to CPT services on SA/BA from QF63. If the fares really are that high yielding, perhaps PER-JNB could seasonally extend to CPT and be timed to feed from QF63. SQ have done this daily for a while, and with relatively short turnarounds (~ an hour in each port). CPT gets huge bumps in capacity over summer, granted mostly from EU3 & ME3, though SQ and CX do feature direct options. Wesgro have been pushing hard to provide incentives for carriers to start new services, as they have with UA from EWR this summer, so I'm sure QF could find some support there.


Yes I feel similar about capacity of the A380. Its a lot of capacity to fill. And considering some years ago QF had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the ACCC to provide a 6th service, let alone a 7th, it feels too much.

Re CPT, could 2x 789s make sense for each city, probably ex SYD? Or at least a 3/4pw to CPT with a daily to JNB? Not sure how a possible PER-South Africa flight would fit in this though.
 
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rtav
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:20 pm

qf2220 wrote:
QF64 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

BNE-LAX has VA. But you could add future state BNE-ORD/SFO. But in this day and age it’s not just about single city markets. I’d argue QF does have competition one stop form SA,SQ,EK who always come up as options when I fly to JNB annually.

I wonder if JNB can support a 380 and a 330 ex-PER. I’d be surprised as I’d have thought QF would capture a lot of MEL/BNE from SYD that they’d have looked to move over PER to support a new service.

Any update on the PAPL QF agreement? I wouldn’t be surprised if once an agreement is announced a 789 top up order occurs in the same announcement perhaps with a deal with the WA government- CDG,FRA? QF negotiates hard, they will have all this bundled together with both deals contingent on many behind the scenes variables.


Long time lurker here, and frequent user of the QF63/64. I'd have though that a 380 would be too much capacity on this route - certainly daily, even being a monopoly. Scaling it down to 4-5 pw also presents its own problems. I was lucky enough to sit up front in the days when these flights had an F product, and loads were never consistently great. Fares are also considerably high on this route even in the lower seasons.

Given QFs now premium focused approach I'd think a 789 SYD-JNB, once equipment becomes available, would be perfect to cover the premium end of the market. Then add in a PER-JNB 332 (once PAPL dispute settled) to pick up the O&D and the lower yields that get left behind in SYD. That would likely decimate SA, whose passengers are flying mostly out of necessity.

CPT is another consideration, and I know this is slated for PS sometime. There is always (anecdotally anyway) a large number of passengers connecting to CPT services on SA/BA from QF63. If the fares really are that high yielding, perhaps PER-JNB could seasonally extend to CPT and be timed to feed from QF63. SQ have done this daily for a while, and with relatively short turnarounds (~ an hour in each port). CPT gets huge bumps in capacity over summer, granted mostly from EU3 & ME3, though SQ and CX do feature direct options. Wesgro have been pushing hard to provide incentives for carriers to start new services, as they have with UA from EWR this summer, so I'm sure QF could find some support there.


Yes I feel similar about capacity of the A380. Its a lot of capacity to fill. And considering some years ago QF had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the ACCC to provide a 6th service, let alone a 7th, it feels too much.

Re CPT, could 2x 789s make sense for each city, probably ex SYD? Or at least a 3/4pw to CPT with a daily to JNB? Not sure how a possible PER-South Africa flight would fit in this though.


I think QF64 was thinking of a 5th freedom flight between JNB and CPT as an extension of a future QF PER-JNB flight. With the JNB-CPT sector being timed to allow passengers arriving on QF63 from SYD to connect onto CPT.

In other news regarding South Africa, SAA reservations reflect a permanent downgrade on the Perth to Johannesburg route from A340-300 to A330-200. Effective 25th October 2020. Are these the last remaining A340’s flying in regular commercial service to Australia?
 
Williamsb747
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 9:14 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:32 pm

qf2220 wrote:
QF64 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

BNE-LAX has VA. But you could add future state BNE-ORD/SFO. But in this day and age it’s not just about single city markets. I’d argue QF does have competition one stop form SA,SQ,EK who always come up as options when I fly to JNB annually.

I wonder if JNB can support a 380 and a 330 ex-PER. I’d be surprised as I’d have thought QF would capture a lot of MEL/BNE from SYD that they’d have looked to move over PER to support a new service.

Any update on the PAPL QF agreement? I wouldn’t be surprised if once an agreement is announced a 789 top up order occurs in the same announcement perhaps with a deal with the WA government- CDG,FRA? QF negotiates hard, they will have all this bundled together with both deals contingent on many behind the scenes variables.


Long time lurker here, and frequent user of the QF63/64. I'd have though that a 380 would be too much capacity on this route - certainly daily, even being a monopoly. Scaling it down to 4-5 pw also presents its own problems. I was lucky enough to sit up front in the days when these flights had an F product, and loads were never consistently great. Fares are also considerably high on this route even in the lower seasons.

Given QFs now premium focused approach I'd think a 789 SYD-JNB, once equipment becomes available, would be perfect to cover the premium end of the market. Then add in a PER-JNB 332 (once PAPL dispute settled) to pick up the O&D and the lower yields that get left behind in SYD. That would likely decimate SA, whose passengers are flying mostly out of necessity.

CPT is another consideration, and I know this is slated for PS sometime. There is always (anecdotally anyway) a large number of passengers connecting to CPT services on SA/BA from QF63. If the fares really are that high yielding, perhaps PER-JNB could seasonally extend to CPT and be timed to feed from QF63. SQ have done this daily for a while, and with relatively short turnarounds (~ an hour in each port). CPT gets huge bumps in capacity over summer, granted mostly from EU3 & ME3, though SQ and CX do feature direct options. Wesgro have been pushing hard to provide incentives for carriers to start new services, as they have with UA from EWR this summer, so I'm sure QF could find some support there.


Yes I feel similar about capacity of the A380. Its a lot of capacity to fill. And considering some years ago QF had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the ACCC to provide a 6th service, let alone a 7th, it feels too much.

Re CPT, could 2x 789s make sense for each city, probably ex SYD? Or at least a 3/4pw to CPT with a daily to JNB? Not sure how a possible PER-South Africa flight would fit in this though.



A daily A380 ex SYD might be a bit overkill especially if QF starts a direct flight to CPT (3pw??). First class would also be added to JNB with the introduction of an A380 so I don't see that happening.
Best alternative I can see (PAPL and aircraft permitting) 7pw SYD-JNB B789, 3pw MEL-CPT B789 and (seasonal?) 3pw PER-JNB A332. Seat count increases slightly by 180 seats pw each way to SA as a whole then increases by 756 seats pw each way if/when PER gets seasonal ops.

Williams-
B747>A340>A350>B777>MD11>B767>B757>MD88/90>B787>A380>A330>A220>A320>B737.
CPT JNB
 
QF742
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:00 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:04 pm

Williamsb747 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
QF64 wrote:

Long time lurker here, and frequent user of the QF63/64. I'd have though that a 380 would be too much capacity on this route - certainly daily, even being a monopoly. Scaling it down to 4-5 pw also presents its own problems. I was lucky enough to sit up front in the days when these flights had an F product, and loads were never consistently great. Fares are also considerably high on this route even in the lower seasons.

Given QFs now premium focused approach I'd think a 789 SYD-JNB, once equipment becomes available, would be perfect to cover the premium end of the market. Then add in a PER-JNB 332 (once PAPL dispute settled) to pick up the O&D and the lower yields that get left behind in SYD. That would likely decimate SA, whose passengers are flying mostly out of necessity.

CPT is another consideration, and I know this is slated for PS sometime. There is always (anecdotally anyway) a large number of passengers connecting to CPT services on SA/BA from QF63. If the fares really are that high yielding, perhaps PER-JNB could seasonally extend to CPT and be timed to feed from QF63. SQ have done this daily for a while, and with relatively short turnarounds (~ an hour in each port). CPT gets huge bumps in capacity over summer, granted mostly from EU3 & ME3, though SQ and CX do feature direct options. Wesgro have been pushing hard to provide incentives for carriers to start new services, as they have with UA from EWR this summer, so I'm sure QF could find some support there.


Yes I feel similar about capacity of the A380. Its a lot of capacity to fill. And considering some years ago QF had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the ACCC to provide a 6th service, let alone a 7th, it feels too much.

Re CPT, could 2x 789s make sense for each city, probably ex SYD? Or at least a 3/4pw to CPT with a daily to JNB? Not sure how a possible PER-South Africa flight would fit in this though.



A daily A380 ex SYD might be a bit overkill especially if QF starts a direct flight to CPT (3pw??). First class would also be added to JNB with the introduction of an A380 so I don't see that happening.
Best alternative I can see (PAPL and aircraft permitting) 7pw SYD-JNB B789, 3pw MEL-CPT B789 and (seasonal?) 3pw PER-JNB A332. Seat count increases slightly by 180 seats pw each way to SA as a whole then increases by 756 seats pw each way if/when PER gets seasonal ops.

Williams-


A380 does seem overkill to JNB but, as suggested in this and other threads, may be QF’s only option. I wonder if they would reduce frequency because adding 100 extra seats per day is a big increase. Anecdotally I flew QF 64 yesterday and the flight was completely fully in J and W.

If QF had spare capacity in the 789 fleet I would assume they would logically switch SYD to daily 789 and add in PER-JNB 332 to make up lost capacity. Does anyone have any info on PDEW MEL-JNB? If PER don’t want to play nice with QF then that could be another option for QF (aircraft permitting).

Re CPT - I could see a short seasonal service (like YVR), but is there enough demand for J on this route? I presume it’s mainly tourist traffic and VFR to/from Australia.
 
Qantas16
Posts: 755
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:45 pm

Williamsb747 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
QF64 wrote:

Long time lurker here, and frequent user of the QF63/64. I'd have though that a 380 would be too much capacity on this route - certainly daily, even being a monopoly. Scaling it down to 4-5 pw also presents its own problems. I was lucky enough to sit up front in the days when these flights had an F product, and loads were never consistently great. Fares are also considerably high on this route even in the lower seasons.

Given QFs now premium focused approach I'd think a 789 SYD-JNB, once equipment becomes available, would be perfect to cover the premium end of the market. Then add in a PER-JNB 332 (once PAPL dispute settled) to pick up the O&D and the lower yields that get left behind in SYD. That would likely decimate SA, whose passengers are flying mostly out of necessity.

CPT is another consideration, and I know this is slated for PS sometime. There is always (anecdotally anyway) a large number of passengers connecting to CPT services on SA/BA from QF63. If the fares really are that high yielding, perhaps PER-JNB could seasonally extend to CPT and be timed to feed from QF63. SQ have done this daily for a while, and with relatively short turnarounds (~ an hour in each port). CPT gets huge bumps in capacity over summer, granted mostly from EU3 & ME3, though SQ and CX do feature direct options. Wesgro have been pushing hard to provide incentives for carriers to start new services, as they have with UA from EWR this summer, so I'm sure QF could find some support there.


Yes I feel similar about capacity of the A380. Its a lot of capacity to fill. And considering some years ago QF had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the ACCC to provide a 6th service, let alone a 7th, it feels too much.

Re CPT, could 2x 789s make sense for each city, probably ex SYD? Or at least a 3/4pw to CPT with a daily to JNB? Not sure how a possible PER-South Africa flight would fit in this though.



A daily A380 ex SYD might be a bit overkill especially if QF starts a direct flight to CPT (3pw??). First class would also be added to JNB with the introduction of an A380 so I don't see that happening.
Best alternative I can see (PAPL and aircraft permitting) 7pw SYD-JNB B789, 3pw MEL-CPT B789 and (seasonal?) 3pw PER-JNB A332. Seat count increases slightly by 180 seats pw each way to SA as a whole then increases by 756 seats pw each way if/when PER gets seasonal ops.

Williams-


Why MEL-CPT vs SYD-CPT?

The A380 might be a temporary solution until they get more 787s (or A350s...) and then can look at daily SYD-JNB, daily PER-JNB (kick SA whilst they're down) and then potentially seasonal SYD/PER-CPT though I think QF would be pretty happy with their current arrangements regarding CPT as there is plenty of capacity JNB-CPT for them to utilise. No point in running an expensive tag flight JNB-CPT... slim chance of PER-JNB-CPT-PER if you could get a single crew to operate JNB-CPT-PER.
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:49 pm

When might we logically expect the next order of 789s? Half year results are coming up soon so possibly then?
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:51 pm

qf2220 wrote:
When might we logically expect the next order of 789s? Half year results are coming up soon so possibly then?


This would make sense. I would have imagined the PS negotiations with Boeing would have included some 789 discussions also. Which could explain the unusual move of flagging the 350 as the preferred option without ordering. Now means QF can now discuss exercising 789 options as a stand alone conversation.
 
qf2048
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:56 pm

RE QF to BNK. Don't forget ZL have been bouncing up and down that route for years in the SF340. QF have scheduled similar times and will be probably trying to grab some of those passengers.
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
Captdasbomb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:51 am

QF64 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

PER-LHR?
BNE-LAX?
SYD-DFW?


BNE-LAX has VA. But you could add future state BNE-ORD/SFO. But in this day and age it’s not just about single city markets. I’d argue QF does have competition one stop form SA,SQ,EK who always come up as options when I fly to JNB annually.

I wonder if JNB can support a 380 and a 330 ex-PER. I’d be surprised as I’d have thought QF would capture a lot of MEL/BNE from SYD that they’d have looked to move over PER to support a new service.

Any update on the PAPL QF agreement? I wouldn’t be surprised if once an agreement is announced a 789 top up order occurs in the same announcement perhaps with a deal with the WA government- CDG,FRA? QF negotiates hard, they will have all this bundled together with both deals contingent on many behind the scenes variables.


Long time lurker here, and frequent user of the QF63/64. I'd have though that a 380 would be too much capacity on this route - certainly daily, even being a monopoly. Scaling it down to 4-5 pw also presents its own problems. I was lucky enough to sit up front in the days when these flights had an F product, and loads were never consistently great. Fares are also considerably high on this route even in the lower seasons.

Given QFs now premium focused approach I'd think a 789 SYD-JNB, once equipment becomes available, would be perfect to cover the premium end of the market. Then add in a PER-JNB 332 (once PAPL dispute settled) to pick up the O&D and the lower yields that get left behind in SYD. That would likely decimate SA, whose passengers are flying mostly out of necessity.

CPT is another consideration, and I know this is slated for PS sometime. There is always (anecdotally anyway) a large number of passengers connecting to CPT services on SA/BA from QF63. If the fares really are that high yielding, perhaps PER-JNB could seasonally extend to CPT and be timed to feed from QF63. SQ have done this daily for a while, and with relatively short turnarounds (~ an hour in each port). CPT gets huge bumps in capacity over summer, granted mostly from EU3 & ME3, though SQ and CX do feature direct options. Wesgro have been pushing hard to provide incentives for carriers to start new services, as they have with UA from EWR this summer, so I'm sure QF could find some support there.


SAA still has some die hard subscribers not out of necessity. But EK to a substantial amount of their Harare/ Lusaka on bound travellers with their daily service which is far superior & significantly cheaper.
 
qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:01 am

qf2048 wrote:
RE QF to BNK. Don't forget ZL have been bouncing up and down that route for years in the SF340. QF have scheduled similar times and will be probably trying to grab some of those passengers.


Yes, if anybody should be concerned about QF bringing a glut of Q300 capacity back into Australia it would be ZL. Anything where ZL has multiple daily flights would surely be on QF's radar.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:29 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
UA101 IAH-SYD diverted for AKL this morning, not sure why arrived around 0700, was due to SYD at 1500, guessing waiting for a new crew, doesn’t look to have departed yet. UA916 AKL-SFO was cancelled 18/1 changes to UA2832 on 19/1 at 1600. I’m guessing crew related.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:36 am

Williamsb747 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
QF64 wrote:

Long time lurker here, and frequent user of the QF63/64. I'd have though that a 380 would be too much capacity on this route - certainly daily, even being a monopoly. Scaling it down to 4-5 pw also presents its own problems. I was lucky enough to sit up front in the days when these flights had an F product, and loads were never consistently great. Fares are also considerably high on this route even in the lower seasons.

Given QFs now premium focused approach I'd think a 789 SYD-JNB, once equipment becomes available, would be perfect to cover the premium end of the market. Then add in a PER-JNB 332 (once PAPL dispute settled) to pick up the O&D and the lower yields that get left behind in SYD. That would likely decimate SA, whose passengers are flying mostly out of necessity.

CPT is another consideration, and I know this is slated for PS sometime. There is always (anecdotally anyway) a large number of passengers connecting to CPT services on SA/BA from QF63. If the fares really are that high yielding, perhaps PER-JNB could seasonally extend to CPT and be timed to feed from QF63. SQ have done this daily for a while, and with relatively short turnarounds (~ an hour in each port). CPT gets huge bumps in capacity over summer, granted mostly from EU3 & ME3, though SQ and CX do feature direct options. Wesgro have been pushing hard to provide incentives for carriers to start new services, as they have with UA from EWR this summer, so I'm sure QF could find some support there.


Yes I feel similar about capacity of the A380. Its a lot of capacity to fill. And considering some years ago QF had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the ACCC to provide a 6th service, let alone a 7th, it feels too much.

Re CPT, could 2x 789s make sense for each city, probably ex SYD? Or at least a 3/4pw to CPT with a daily to JNB? Not sure how a possible PER-South Africa flight would fit in this though.



A daily A380 ex SYD might be a bit overkill especially if QF starts a direct flight to CPT (3pw??). First class would also be added to JNB with the introduction of an A380 so I don't see that happening.
Best alternative I can see (PAPL and aircraft permitting) 7pw SYD-JNB B789, 3pw MEL-CPT B789 and (seasonal?) 3pw PER-JNB A332. Seat count increases slightly by 180 seats pw each way to SA as a whole then increases by 756 seats pw each way if/when PER gets seasonal ops.

Williams-



They probably don’t have any other options if they can’t send the A380 to HND, I’d imagine a 4-5 weekly in winter 6-7 weekly summer A380 SYD-JNB. I doubt any other South Africa routes will be added if they use an A380 to JNB.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:42 am

rtav wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
QF64 wrote:

Long time lurker here, and frequent user of the QF63/64. I'd have though that a 380 would be too much capacity on this route - certainly daily, even being a monopoly. Scaling it down to 4-5 pw also presents its own problems. I was lucky enough to sit up front in the days when these flights had an F product, and loads were never consistently great. Fares are also considerably high on this route even in the lower seasons.

Given QFs now premium focused approach I'd think a 789 SYD-JNB, once equipment becomes available, would be perfect to cover the premium end of the market. Then add in a PER-JNB 332 (once PAPL dispute settled) to pick up the O&D and the lower yields that get left behind in SYD. That would likely decimate SA, whose passengers are flying mostly out of necessity.

CPT is another consideration, and I know this is slated for PS sometime. There is always (anecdotally anyway) a large number of passengers connecting to CPT services on SA/BA from QF63. If the fares really are that high yielding, perhaps PER-JNB could seasonally extend to CPT and be timed to feed from QF63. SQ have done this daily for a while, and with relatively short turnarounds (~ an hour in each port). CPT gets huge bumps in capacity over summer, granted mostly from EU3 & ME3, though SQ and CX do feature direct options. Wesgro have been pushing hard to provide incentives for carriers to start new services, as they have with UA from EWR this summer, so I'm sure QF could find some support there.


Yes I feel similar about capacity of the A380. Its a lot of capacity to fill. And considering some years ago QF had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the ACCC to provide a 6th service, let alone a 7th, it feels too much.

Re CPT, could 2x 789s make sense for each city, probably ex SYD? Or at least a 3/4pw to CPT with a daily to JNB? Not sure how a possible PER-South Africa flight would fit in this though.


I think QF64 was thinking of a 5th freedom flight between JNB and CPT as an extension of a future QF PER-JNB flight. With the JNB-CPT sector being timed to allow passengers arriving on QF63 from SYD to connect onto CPT.

In other news regarding South Africa, SAA reservations reflect a permanent downgrade on the Perth to Johannesburg route from A340-300 to A330-200. Effective 25th October 2020. Are these the last remaining A340’s flying in regular commercial service to Australia?


SA seem to have fairly premium configurations, 253 on the A343 in a 2 class J, Y layout and 222 on the A332.
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:59 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
UA101 IAH-SYD diverted for AKL this morning, not sure why arrived around 0700, was due to SYD at 1500, guessing waiting for a new crew, doesn’t look to have departed yet. UA916 AKL-SFO was cancelled 18/1 changes to UA2832 on 19/1 at 1600. I’m guessing crew related.


Second day in a row UA101 has diverted, the day before went to BNE, was subsequently cancelled and pax moved to domestic flights. Aircraft is still there and meant to ferry back to LAX tomorrow morning. Yesterday’s SYD-LAX was cancelled and today’s SYD-IAH has been cancelled.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:18 am

NH in conjunction with VA had just announced details of their codeshare agreement yesturday. The first tranche of codeshare routes for Australian domestic routes (for ex-Japan travellers) go on sale from Jan 21 and is valid for travel from Jan 30.

Further codeshare arrangements will be released closer to the March date for the new Haneda flights for NH and VA.

https://loyaltylobby.com/2020/01/17/ana ... g-in-2020/
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:23 am

Qantas16 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
UA101 IAH-SYD diverted for AKL this morning, not sure why arrived around 0700, was due to SYD at 1500, guessing waiting for a new crew, doesn’t look to have departed yet. UA916 AKL-SFO was cancelled 18/1 changes to UA2832 on 19/1 at 1600. I’m guessing crew related.


Second day in a row UA101 has diverted, the day before went to BNE, was subsequently cancelled and pax moved to domestic flights. Aircraft is still there and meant to ferry back to LAX tomorrow morning. Yesterday’s SYD-LAX was cancelled and today’s SYD-IAH has been cancelled.


SYD-IAH is meant to be operating as UA2766 at 1800ex SYD, it looks like it has departed AKL as UA101D at 1522, no idea why UA change flight numbers like this when the flight is still on the same day.

I’d imagine the AKL-SFO cancellation was due to crew taking the diverted SYD aircraft to SYD?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:07 am

Qantas16 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
UA101 IAH-SYD diverted for AKL this morning, not sure why arrived around 0700, was due to SYD at 1500, guessing waiting for a new crew, doesn’t look to have departed yet. UA916 AKL-SFO was cancelled 18/1 changes to UA2832 on 19/1 at 1600. I’m guessing crew related.


Second day in a row UA101 has diverted, the day before went to BNE, was subsequently cancelled and pax moved to domestic flights. Aircraft is still there and meant to ferry back to LAX tomorrow morning. Yesterday’s SYD-LAX was cancelled and today’s SYD-IAH has been cancelled.


There is currently an Cyclone in the pacific around Fiji/Tonga/Nuie-ish, this could be impacting operations.

NZ canceled some Pacific Island flights today due to it, so likely UA has had to go around the weather etc which has pushed the range limits of an fully loaded flight.
 
Williamsb747
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:24 am

Qantas16 wrote:
Williamsb747 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

Yes I feel similar about capacity of the A380. Its a lot of capacity to fill. And considering some years ago QF had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the ACCC to provide a 6th service, let alone a 7th, it feels too much.

Re CPT, could 2x 789s make sense for each city, probably ex SYD? Or at least a 3/4pw to CPT with a daily to JNB? Not sure how a possible PER-South Africa flight would fit in this though.



A daily A380 ex SYD might be a bit overkill especially if QF starts a direct flight to CPT (3pw??). First class would also be added to JNB with the introduction of an A380 so I don't see that happening.
Best alternative I can see (PAPL and aircraft permitting) 7pw SYD-JNB B789, 3pw MEL-CPT B789 and (seasonal?) 3pw PER-JNB A332. Seat count increases slightly by 180 seats pw each way to SA as a whole then increases by 756 seats pw each way if/when PER gets seasonal ops.

Williams-


Why MEL-CPT vs SYD-CPT?

The A380 might be a temporary solution until they get more 787s (or A350s...) and then can look at daily SYD-JNB, daily PER-JNB (kick SA whilst they're down) and then potentially seasonal SYD/PER-CPT though I think QF would be pretty happy with their current arrangements regarding CPT as there is plenty of capacity JNB-CPT for them to utilise. No point in running an expensive tag flight JNB-CPT... slim chance of PER-JNB-CPT-PER if you could get a single crew to operate JNB-CPT-PER.


Typo sorry, should have said MEL/SYD. Although I am leaning more towards MEL than SYD no real reason just am.

Williams-
B747>A340>A350>B777>MD11>B767>B757>MD88/90>B787>A380>A330>A220>A320>B737.
CPT JNB
 
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SeaEagle8
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:06 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:

The business links to SYD and MEL though are in another league, for which PVG is a significant destination. That, along with larger Chinese diaspora populations, helps drive year round demand.


Let's not pretend that the entire China-Australia market isn't highly seasonal. SYD-CAN is 2x A330 for most of the year but is currently 2x A330 plus 1x A380. MU currently have 18 flights per week from PVG-MEL, a market which is 10x for most of the year.

Your point is correct though that the larger local markets and stronger business ties mean that even when demand contracts during the winter there is still enough underlying demand to support year-round flights to SYD and MEL.

IndianicWorld wrote:
PER may well need to look at just seasonal service, but it would be a big step if they put the capacity that BNE had over that period on the PER route. I guess it may well depend on the deal on the table with stakeholders.


IMHO the only way that PER could sustain year round service where BNE failed is with a very generous subsidy package. Perth is a smaller market to China than Brisbane and SEQ. If the state of WA were to put cash on the table then I think MU would fly it. The Chinese carriers flit between secondary markets following the subsidy trail, operating a new route for the minimum amount of time required to collect the full payment. There's no reason to assume they won't do the same with Perth. If there isn't cash on offer then I think MU will fly it seasonally regardless, the Perth market is large enough to support service in peak season.


You are right. China-Australia is very seasonal but even CZ is reducing both SYD and MEL to only 10 weekly starting this winter. Although on larger aircraft, going from 21 weekly to a seasonal 10 weekly is a big adjustment.
However, CZ is also dropping BNE to 5 weekly for a period as well. BNE already lost CA to PEK. And now MU to PVG is being cut to seasonal, CZ to CAN reducing to 5 weekly for a couple of months and CX is cutting a seasonal 4 weekly flights to daily only for over 6 months really indicates BNE-China is pretty weak.
NSW based avgeek
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:08 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
They probably don’t have any other options if they can’t send the A380 to HND, I’d imagine a 4-5 weekly in winter 6-7 weekly summer A380 SYD-JNB. I doubt any other South Africa routes will be added if they use an A380 to JNB.


Can you imagine the pain in the network if they had ordered 8 more of these?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:18 am

rtav wrote:
I think QF64 was thinking of a 5th freedom flight between JNB and CPT as an extension of a future QF PER-JNB flight. With the JNB-CPT sector being timed to allow passengers arriving on QF63 from SYD to connect onto CPT.

In other news regarding South Africa, SAA reservations reflect a permanent downgrade on the Perth to Johannesburg route from A340-300 to A330-200. Effective 25th October 2020. Are these the last remaining A340’s flying in regular commercial service to Australia?

This would be 8th freedom as it's domestic South African flight, something QF will probably never get like 99% of the other countries.

Michael
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:47 am

qf2220 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
They probably don’t have any other options if they can’t send the A380 to HND, I’d imagine a 4-5 weekly in winter 6-7 weekly summer A380 SYD-JNB. I doubt any other South Africa routes will be added if they use an A380 to JNB.


Can you imagine the pain in the network if they had ordered 8 more of these?


Well they did order them, but I bet they are glad they didn’t have them delivered, 3 class with 550 odd seats. There was a period where they could have maybe used 1-2 more when MEL-LHR was an A380.

Even now IMO it’s become pretty obvious that QF could operate without the A380, only SIN/LHR/LAX could use them with 789s to DFW if they had more. But as they get A350s and maybe more 787s you can clearly see where QF are going. However the A380 still works for now on the routes it flies and it was the right aircraft when first ordered way back in 2000.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:01 am

QF flights to BNK are good news to me as a Byron Hinterland local and QF Gold. I travel to Sydney and other capitals for work on average fortnightly. Currently my choices are drive 75 mins to OOL - which as posts upthread point out is a nasty zoo of a place, but it does have a Qantas club which helps. Alternatively I can drive 20 minutes to Lismore and fly Rex with their eye-watering fares, noting that most flights stop in Grafton making the door to door trip just as long as driving to OOL. (Though LSY is great - no security check and the Rex staff there are awesome people). Or my third option is a 40 minute drive to BNK with JQ and VA flights with timing geared to in-bound leisure pax and not useful for locals who need to fly to work in Sydney. Rex's daily BNK flights do pick up plenty of locals in that category, but again they're expensive and lacklustre.

It's a good point was made that a QLink Q300 is hardly a 'premium' experience, but I'd still pick it over JQ for the overall ambiance of the flight plus being able to use T3 (and the lounge obviously) in Sydney.

The whole region's demographics are pretty mixed. House prices in Byron Bay its self are just as obscene as Sydney and Melbourne. It really is Toorak-on-sea these days (ugh). A lot of people across the region, like me, telecommute. Lismore is the major hub city with a university and the area's major hospital and other services so I can see some of that traffic opting for the quick drive down to BNK instead of using Rex. Rex has already been gradually scaling back Lismore services over the past few years, I guess as more locals opt for VA and JQ out of BNK. The inbound tourism to the region is a bit like Bali where JQ and QF can carve out different segments of a fairly diverse market (and VA keeps on being neither quite proper full service or LCC...)

I hope QF does well on the route and that it eventually up gauges to a jet service.
 
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Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:30 am

QF Disney Charter has just departed operated on VH-OQE

Image


Flight QF17 from Sydney to Los Angeles
https://fr24.com/QFA17/2391f7be



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Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:11 am

zkncj wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:


Second day in a row UA101 has diverted, the day before went to BNE, was subsequently cancelled and pax moved to domestic flights. Aircraft is still there and meant to ferry back to LAX tomorrow morning. Yesterday’s SYD-LAX was cancelled and today’s SYD-IAH has been cancelled.


There is currently an Cyclone in the pacific around Fiji/Tonga/Nuie-ish, this could be impacting operations.

NZ canceled some Pacific Island flights today due to it, so likely UA has had to go around the weather etc which has pushed the range limits of an fully loaded flight.



Tropical Cyclone Tino causing a lot of problems for Pacific Carriers at the moment....

- Air New Zealand cancelled flights to Apia, Niue, Tonga & Fiji
- Virgin Australia cancelled flights to Apia & Tonga
- Fiji Airways cancelled inter-island flights from Fiji to Samoa and Tonga

However Samoa Airways has managed to fly to/from Apia whilst others have cancelled... LOL
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:28 pm

The WA Supreme Court has ordered Qantas to hand over information relating to profitability of all PER routes including PER-LHR and also fees or charges charged by the airline to other Australian airports to PAPL. As per the order issued a year ago PAPL is owed $11.3 million by Qantas

Qantas has been granted an extension due to the amount of material required.

PAPL has also tried numerous times to reach an agreement with Qantas, the latest being in mid December.

https://www.travelweekly.com.au/article ... continues/

So I guess this means no future QF international flights out of PER for the next 2 years, the longer this takes the more opportunities they are likely to miss, they have already missed the boat when it comes to Tokyo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:53 pm

qf789 wrote:
The WA Supreme Court has ordered Qantas to hand over information relating to profitability of all PER routes including PER-LHR and also fees or charges charged by the airline to other Australian airports to PAPL. As per the order issued a year ago PAPL is owed $11.3 million by Qantas

Qantas has been granted an extension due to the amount of material required.

PAPL has also tried numerous times to reach an agreement with Qantas, the latest being in mid December.

https://www.travelweekly.com.au/article ... continues/

So I guess this means no future QF international flights out of PER for the next 2 years, the longer this takes the more opportunities they are likely to miss, they have already missed the boat when it comes to Tokyo


Who needs who more? PAPL or QF?
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:22 am

qf789 wrote:
So I guess this means no future QF international flights out of PER for the next 2 years, the longer this takes the more opportunities they are likely to miss, they have already missed the boat when it comes to Tokyo


Is there any other secondary airport near PER that Qantas could turn into an new Perth base e.g. something like an OOL?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:40 am

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
So I guess this means no future QF international flights out of PER for the next 2 years, the longer this takes the more opportunities they are likely to miss, they have already missed the boat when it comes to Tokyo


Is there any other secondary airport near PER that Qantas could turn into an new Perth base e.g. something like an OOL?


No the only airport close to PER is Pearce which has a runway large enough to take wide body aircraft however the airport is military only
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:43 am

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
So I guess this means no future QF international flights out of PER for the next 2 years, the longer this takes the more opportunities they are likely to miss, they have already missed the boat when it comes to Tokyo


Is there any other secondary airport near PER that Qantas could turn into an new Perth base e.g. something like an OOL?


No. The only other airports in the Perth area are Jandakot, which is strictly GA only, and RAAF Pearce, which is self explanatory. The closest most suitable strip is Busselton, which JQ have dipped their toes into, but it is simply too far away before you even look at the costs of building anything suitable for QF.

PAPL and QF need each other more than they like to admit. They're both only hurting themselves the more this is dragged out.
B737/738/739/744ER/752/753/763/77L/77W/788/789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:32 am

Honestly, PER and QF just need to come to an agreement which lets them both save face and claim the issues have been addressed so they can get back to their shared interest of putting people on planes. Right now they're both losing.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:46 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Honestly, PER and QF just need to come to an agreement which lets them both save face and claim the issues have been addressed so they can get back to their shared interest of putting people on planes. Right now they're both losing.


The biggest loser is the state, the airport is vital to the whole state, the longer this goes on the longer new construction of the extension of T1 takes place.

In other news, works will begin next month on upgrading T1 gates 52, 53 and 54. Stairs will be replaced by lifts and ramps and all 3 gates will become dual bridges
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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:15 am

qf789 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Honestly, PER and QF just need to come to an agreement which lets them both save face and claim the issues have been addressed so they can get back to their shared interest of putting people on planes. Right now they're both losing.


The biggest loser is the state, the airport is vital to the whole state, the longer this goes on the longer new construction of the extension of T1 takes place.

In other news, works will begin next month on upgrading T1 gates 52, 53 and 54. Stairs will be replaced by lifts and ramps and all 3 gates will become dual bridges


Indeed - to me which highlights the need for airports to be more closely regulated, to prevent damage to state economies. Especially with tourism projected to dive post fires, the burden can’t be solely on airlines to reduce ticket prices.

I can’t see QF backing down for this one, they won’t want to set a precedent for other airports.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8272
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:41 am

smi0006 wrote:

I can’t see QF backing down for this one, they won’t want to set a precedent for other airports.


Neiher can I. I will be shocked if they don't appeal the order to turn over this information.

$11mil is nothing to Qantas. In the long they could easily end up spending more than that in legal fees. To be fighting it the issues clearly run much deeper than one unpaid bill, regardless of what spin PAPL try and put on it.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 540
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:51 am

Virgin Australia Velocity Frequent Flyer CEO resigns.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 53t0c.html
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:55 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

I can’t see QF backing down for this one, they won’t want to set a precedent for other airports.


Neiher can I. I will be shocked if they don't appeal the order to turn over this information.

$11mil is nothing to Qantas. In the long they could easily end up spending more than that in legal fees. To be fighting it the issues clearly run much deeper than one unpaid bill, regardless of what spin PAPL try and put on it.


What's the actual dispute here? Can someone give a quick summary? Wasn't Qantas in a similar situation with Canberra recently? Is Virgin in the same dispute and arrears that QF is in? Seems an odd situation.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:29 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:09 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Virgin Australia Velocity Frequent Flyer CEO resigns.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 53t0c.html


Am I the only one that finds it wierd that he left without a replacement ?
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:15 am

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Virgin Australia Velocity Frequent Flyer CEO resigns.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 53t0c.html


Am I the only one that finds it wierd that he left without a replacement ?


Per the article, his predecessor will be filling in for him as CEO whilst Velocity is looking for a replacement.

I also suspect the departing Velocity CEO might be related to the upcoming (bank loan) funded VA buyback of the 35% stake from Affinity. This effectively adds some bank creditor(s) to VA's list as VA will need to pay that loan back.

https://www.businessnewsaus.com.au/arti ... -back.html
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 540
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:19 am

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Am I the only one that finds it wierd that he left without a replacement ?


Me too. But then, Schuster was a Borghetti hire, and interestingly he replaced Neil Thompson, who Borghetti edged out and who now returns as temporary Velocity CEO!

Also interesting timing in that Virgin has resumed full ownership of Velocity under Scurrah's watch so maybe for whatever reason he felt Schuster wasn't the guy for the job.

Not that Schuster will be hitting the breadline any time soon, he was "due to pocket an $8.8 million bonus based on the exit of Affinity, under a long-term incentive scheme", The Australian reported in September 2019.
 
qf2048
Posts: 105
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:16 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:14 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Virgin Australia Velocity Frequent Flyer CEO resigns.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 53t0c.html


Loosely related, I notice my local BP service station's Velocity Frequent Flyer sign has been replaced with the BP Rewards sign. That partnership ends on 31st Jan.
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