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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:15 am

aerokiwi wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

I can’t see QF backing down for this one, they won’t want to set a precedent for other airports.


Neiher can I. I will be shocked if they don't appeal the order to turn over this information.

$11mil is nothing to Qantas. In the long they could easily end up spending more than that in legal fees. To be fighting it the issues clearly run much deeper than one unpaid bill, regardless of what spin PAPL try and put on it.


What's the actual dispute here? Can someone give a quick summary? Wasn't Qantas in a similar situation with Canberra recently? Is Virgin in the same dispute and arrears that QF is in? Seems an odd situation.


It dates back to 2015 prior to PER-LHR being announced. At the time PAPL wanted QF to use T1, QF wanted to use T3 or the service wouldn't go ahead. Eventually the state government also came to the party to get the deal over the line. At the time an agreement was made which included QF moving to the new planned T1 domestic terminal by 31 Dec 2025 and that T3 could be used for QF's existing International services, at the time that was SIN and AKL however the last flight to AKL was operated from T1 prior to PER-LHR starting in 2018 and any future routes to Europe

In mid 2018 QF wanted to start PER-JNB, seasonal service, PAPL said T1 QF said T3, the planned service was ditched shortly after

In December 2018 PAPL filed a writ in the WA Supreme Court after QF short changed the airport in October 2018 over fees payable to PAPL, at the time fees were supposedly agreed upon however QF took matters into their own hands resulting in them ultimately being sued by PAPL. At the time all other airlines serving PER have signed new agreements which saw fees lowered.

Last year we saw QF flip and flop over the new terminal at T1. Then the JNB issue was brought up again, but this time it was reported to operate PER-JNB-PER-AKL-PER.

Then PER-CDG has been raised several times but QF had said it wont go anywhere until all issues are resolved.

I think it was in 2018 both ASP and DRW had come and said they had similar issues with QF with receiving payment but did not have the means to pursue.

Where Virgin is concerned they have not been vocal on the whole airport costs. I personally think when Scurrah and Joyce did the Press Club together Scurrah was forced to go. Virgin has handled the whole airport saga thing professionally, Qantas on the other hand is using the press a lot and also from where I sit they seem to be using their corporate market power to get their own way. Their is also a level of hypocrisy on their part, they seem going after PER but what about SYD or MEL, didn't QF recently blame the increase in delays out of SYD on climate change, not anything to do with the airport itself such as growing faster than it can handle and what about the cost SYD charges for lets say the a delay at a gate, the cost in PER is pretty similar so why is one being singled out over the other. Look I like Qantas but this is much their own doing as PAPL. Its not likely to end anytime soon as I have said the ultimately losers are the state and the general travelling public. If it is not resolved soon the 2025 date of moving to the new terminal will slip into 2026 and beyond.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:54 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Am I the only one that finds it wierd that he left without a replacement ?


Me too. But then, Schuster was a Borghetti hire, and interestingly he replaced Neil Thompson, who Borghetti edged out and who now returns as temporary Velocity CEO!

Also interesting timing in that Virgin has resumed full ownership of Velocity under Scurrah's watch so maybe for whatever reason he felt Schuster wasn't the guy for the job.

Not that Schuster will be hitting the breadline any time soon, he was "due to pocket an $8.8 million bonus based on the exit of Affinity, under a long-term incentive scheme", The Australian reported in September 2019.


Given he decided to leave during the Christmas break, and most of the VA office staff in Virgin Village only returned to work last week they were never going to find a replacement in 2 weeks. I don't think he was pushed but probably think it due to personal reasons
 
Ishrion
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:02 am

Virgin Australia temporarily reduces LAX flights: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... y-changes/

Brisbane – Los Angeles 30JUL20 – 13SEP20 Reduce from 6 to 5 weekly
Melbourne – Los Angeles 02AUG20 – 14SEP20 Reduce from 5 to 4 weekly
Sydney – Los Angeles 28JUL20 – 13SEP20 Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly
 
aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:13 am

qf789 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

Neiher can I. I will be shocked if they don't appeal the order to turn over this information.

$11mil is nothing to Qantas. In the long they could easily end up spending more than that in legal fees. To be fighting it the issues clearly run much deeper than one unpaid bill, regardless of what spin PAPL try and put on it.


What's the actual dispute here? Can someone give a quick summary? Wasn't Qantas in a similar situation with Canberra recently? Is Virgin in the same dispute and arrears that QF is in? Seems an odd situation.


It dates back to 2015 prior to PER-LHR being announced. At the time PAPL wanted QF to use T1, QF wanted to use T3 or the service wouldn't go ahead. Eventually the state government also came to the party to get the deal over the line. At the time an agreement was made which included QF moving to the new planned T1 domestic terminal by 31 Dec 2025 and that T3 could be used for QF's existing International services, at the time that was SIN and AKL however the last flight to AKL was operated from T1 prior to PER-LHR starting in 2018 and any future routes to Europe

In mid 2018 QF wanted to start PER-JNB, seasonal service, PAPL said T1 QF said T3, the planned service was ditched shortly after

In December 2018 PAPL filed a writ in the WA Supreme Court after QF short changed the airport in October 2018 over fees payable to PAPL, at the time fees were supposedly agreed upon however QF took matters into their own hands resulting in them ultimately being sued by PAPL. At the time all other airlines serving PER have signed new agreements which saw fees lowered.

Last year we saw QF flip and flop over the new terminal at T1. Then the JNB issue was brought up again, but this time it was reported to operate PER-JNB-PER-AKL-PER.

Then PER-CDG has been raised several times but QF had said it wont go anywhere until all issues are resolved.

I think it was in 2018 both ASP and DRW had come and said they had similar issues with QF with receiving payment but did not have the means to pursue.

Where Virgin is concerned they have not been vocal on the whole airport costs. I personally think when Scurrah and Joyce did the Press Club together Scurrah was forced to go. Virgin has handled the whole airport saga thing professionally, Qantas on the other hand is using the press a lot and also from where I sit they seem to be using their corporate market power to get their own way. Their is also a level of hypocrisy on their part, they seem going after PER but what about SYD or MEL, didn't QF recently blame the increase in delays out of SYD on climate change, not anything to do with the airport itself such as growing faster than it can handle and what about the cost SYD charges for lets say the a delay at a gate, the cost in PER is pretty similar so why is one being singled out over the other. Look I like Qantas but this is much their own doing as PAPL. Its not likely to end anytime soon as I have said the ultimately losers are the state and the general travelling public. If it is not resolved soon the 2025 date of moving to the new terminal will slip into 2026 and beyond.


Thanks for the much appreciated. There seems to be a jump from the terminal dispute to the fees issue in 2018. And very interesting that other airports are reporting similar behaviour by Qantas. Perhaps this isn't as one sided they've been making out. How did the Canberra issue work out? Or has it?

At some point you'd think the legal system would start to recognise some bad faith behaviour going on here. The public doesn't care about this kind of minutiae and if these routes were so valuable you think QF would have found an accomodation by now. A lot of puffery and posturing going on here. Anyone surprised?
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:16 am

Ishrion wrote:
Virgin Australia temporarily reduces LAX flights: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... y-changes/

Brisbane – Los Angeles 30JUL20 – 13SEP20 Reduce from 6 to 5 weekly
Melbourne – Los Angeles 02AUG20 – 14SEP20 Reduce from 5 to 4 weekly
Sydney – Los Angeles 28JUL20 – 13SEP20 Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly


Assuming for 777 maintenance
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:57 am

Obzerva wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Virgin Australia temporarily reduces LAX flights: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... y-changes/

Brisbane – Los Angeles 30JUL20 – 13SEP20 Reduce from 6 to 5 weekly
Melbourne – Los Angeles 02AUG20 – 14SEP20 Reduce from 5 to 4 weekly
Sydney – Los Angeles 28JUL20 – 13SEP20 Reduce from 7 to 5 weekly


Assuming for 777 maintenance


Yes Im pretty sure we discussed this late last year
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:16 am

Today’s VA464/469 BNE-PER-BNE only operating with a 11 hour delay
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:50 pm

Qantas ramp worker has suffered from a head injury at PER airport today

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/perth/ ... 881438574z
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:54 pm

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Virgin Australia Velocity Frequent Flyer CEO resigns.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 53t0c.html


Am I the only one that finds it wierd that he left without a replacement ?


If it is coming back in house they probably dont need a CEO level manager but someone 'lower level' that manages a division within a company under a CEO....
 
brucetiki
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:08 am

qf2048 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Virgin Australia Velocity Frequent Flyer CEO resigns.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 53t0c.html


Loosely related, I notice my local BP service station's Velocity Frequent Flyer sign has been replaced with the BP Rewards sign. That partnership ends on 31st Jan.


Seen that as well with a local (non-OTR) BP servo.

Has any more info come out about the new BP/QF scheme?
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:39 am

qf2220 wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Virgin Australia Velocity Frequent Flyer CEO resigns.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 53t0c.html


Am I the only one that finds it wierd that he left without a replacement ?


If it is coming back in house they probably dont need a CEO level manager but someone 'lower level' that manages a division within a company under a CEO....

They will hire someone as a C level manager reporting to PS. Loyalty is a key money-earner for airlines so the position will be part of the executive team. Now Velocity is back 100% owned by VA, it is likely the focus will be much more on the airline side and how the loyalty program drives profitability of the airline itself. This will mean things such as partnerships, alliances etc become more important. Non-airline revenue will still remain an important part but linkage to bums on seats will be key.

Interestingly, QF seems to be moving to a less airline focussed arrangement with a revised plan directed at non-flyers. It will be interesting to see how this develops. Its initial programs such as health insurance and car insurance are both pretty ordinary and generally poor value even when the "bonus"points are added in.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:17 am

tullamarine wrote:
Interestingly, QF seems to be moving to a less airline focussed arrangement with a revised plan directed at non-flyers. It will be interesting to see how this develops. Its initial programs such as health insurance and car insurance are both pretty ordinary and generally poor value even when the "bonus"points are added in.


I'd say this is because QF has pretty much tapped out its potential for actual 'frequent flying' members signing up, what's left are the infrequent flyers and that's behind the 'Points Club' proposal as well as trying to leverage its brand into insurance, the insurance plans are pretty poor value but the margin for QF would be decent and they should be able to sign up enough people. The most financially successful non-frequent flyer play would probably be the Qantas-branded credit cards. I think that Olivia Wirth, who stepped up from PR to CEO of Loyalty, is eager to prove her chops and show lots of initiative and growth.
 
Qf648
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:02 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

I can’t see QF backing down for this one, they won’t want to set a precedent for other airports.


Neiher can I. I will be shocked if they don't appeal the order to turn over this information.

$11mil is nothing to Qantas. In the long they could easily end up spending more than that in legal fees. To be fighting it the issues clearly run much deeper than one unpaid bill, regardless of what spin PAPL try and put on it.


PAPL needs QF more. More than 50% of the volume goes through T3/4.

QF doesnt want to leave its own party and be squished in with other airlines. Given the current state of traffic over at T2/T1 this would be a silly idea it would simply fail to cope with FIFO workforces first thing in the morning.

PAPL could be killing it if they just opened an hotel at T1/T2 that would start to bring the foot traffic over there.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:19 am

Qf648 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

I can’t see QF backing down for this one, they won’t want to set a precedent for other airports.


Neiher can I. I will be shocked if they don't appeal the order to turn over this information.

$11mil is nothing to Qantas. In the long they could easily end up spending more than that in legal fees. To be fighting it the issues clearly run much deeper than one unpaid bill, regardless of what spin PAPL try and put on it.


PAPL needs QF more. More than 50% of the volume goes through T3/4.

QF doesnt want to leave its own party and be squished in with other airlines. Given the current state of traffic over at T2/T1 this would be a silly idea it would simply fail to cope with FIFO workforces first thing in the morning.

PAPL could be killing it if they just opened an hotel at T1/T2 that would start to bring the foot traffic over there.


They both need each other; it's not as if QF can move elsewhere and PAPL need the QF traffic. The argument is really over who makes what money.

PAPL don't want to give QF a favorable price or other major users such as VA, SQ etc will beat down their door asking for the same. Disclosure of profits from PER routes is potentially ugly for QF as key FIFO and corporate customers will say they want back a part of any super-profits QF may be making.

Obviously, the long term development of T1 is key to both. T3/T4 are really quite old and inefficient and not served by the new rail link. The long-term plans for PER look great; it is just the intervening period and how both parties handle and fund QF's international services over this time that is a sticking point.
 
aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:31 am

Qf648 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

I can’t see QF backing down for this one, they won’t want to set a precedent for other airports.


Neiher can I. I will be shocked if they don't appeal the order to turn over this information.

$11mil is nothing to Qantas. In the long they could easily end up spending more than that in legal fees. To be fighting it the issues clearly run much deeper than one unpaid bill, regardless of what spin PAPL try and put on it.


PAPL needs QF more. More than 50% of the volume goes through T3/4.

QF doesnt want to leave its own party and be squished in with other airlines. Given the current state of traffic over at T2/T1 this would be a silly idea it would simply fail to cope with FIFO workforces first thing in the morning.

PAPL could be killing it if they just opened an hotel at T1/T2 that would start to bring the foot traffic over there.


I don't really get this sentiment of one side needing the other "more".

Would QF really reduce its domestic services to Perth as part of its dispute with PAPL? Presumably they're pretty profitable and QF wouldn't scale back and hand some pretty lucrative contracts to VA. The only leverage it has is the LHR service and the prospect of future long haul routes. But there have been no real movements by QF on those routes, including their fleet plans, so it would seem no side has leverage over the other, which is why QF has had to resort to withholding the $11 million in fees to try and generate some leverage and force the issue.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:06 am

tullamarine wrote:
Qf648 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

Neiher can I. I will be shocked if they don't appeal the order to turn over this information.

$11mil is nothing to Qantas. In the long they could easily end up spending more than that in legal fees. To be fighting it the issues clearly run much deeper than one unpaid bill, regardless of what spin PAPL try and put on it.


PAPL needs QF more. More than 50% of the volume goes through T3/4.

QF doesnt want to leave its own party and be squished in with other airlines. Given the current state of traffic over at T2/T1 this would be a silly idea it would simply fail to cope with FIFO workforces first thing in the morning.

PAPL could be killing it if they just opened an hotel at T1/T2 that would start to bring the foot traffic over there.


They both need each other; it's not as if QF can move elsewhere and PAPL need the QF traffic. The argument is really over who makes what money.

PAPL don't want to give QF a favorable price or other major users such as VA, SQ etc will beat down their door asking for the same. Disclosure of profits from PER routes is potentially ugly for QF as key FIFO and corporate customers will say they want back a part of any super-profits QF may be making.

Obviously, the long term development of T1 is key to both. T3/T4 are really quite old and inefficient and not served by the new rail link. The long-term plans for PER look great; it is just the intervening period and how both parties handle and fund QF's international services over this time that is a sticking point.


It’s important to note QF and VA group agreements are negotiated completely separately from international carriers, and combine domestic and international ops. SQ wouldn’t be able to leverage off them.

BARA negotiate on behalf of member airlines, excluding QF and VA for competitive reasons. LCC and carriers not BARA members go it solo. Why Air Asia moves to AVV, they didn’t agree with APAM price increase so went somewhere else.

For those interested the BARA website has their press releases and publications relating to international perspectives on airport pricing-

https://bara.org.au/about-us/
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:38 am

JAL is swapping its SYD-HND Boeing 787-9 for a Boeing 777-300ER, which will make it the only carrier flying first class between Sydney and Tokyo

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... yo-flights
 
VapourTrails
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:46 am

There’s an emergency level warning for a grass fire burning near the perimeter of Canberra Airport. Not sure how long it’s been going. Saw it in peak hour traffic. Nearly got involved in a minor collision of rear-enders rubber necking. Sirens going off, but hoping for a speedy and positive resolution.

Webcam source: https://www.canberraairport.com.au/flights/flightcam/
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:11 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
JAL is swapping its SYD-HND Boeing 787-9 for a Boeing 777-300ER, which will make it the only carrier flying first class between Sydney and Tokyo

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... yo-flights


I still find it very strange how CX don't fly any F to SYD/MEL especially given the large number of onward connections they can offer through HKG. With SQ, QF and now JL finding a limited market for F it just puzzles me that CX don't want a share.

What will be interesting is what happens in the southern winter. In recent years we've see a 789 in our summer and 788 in the winter. I didn't see if the 77W will be year round or if either the 788/789 will return for the southern winter months. Increasing from a 788 (especially in JL config) to a 77W for the winter is quite a capacity jump.

This could also be the first sign of a new agreement with QF following the VA/ANA tie-up and assignment of HND slots. Under a new QF/JL JV or revised codeshare agreement this move to increase capacity from JL could be to absorb some fo the pending loss in QF capacity once the 744 is gone. A September start for the 77W could fit in well with the QF 744 retirement. I've been thinking part of the reason we've not had any news from QF regarding SYD-HND is not just aircraft choice but because they are waiting on submission of a new partnership with JAL.
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:00 am

Looks like the three QF pickle fork affected 737s are slowly return to service. VXA still out. VXM has been back for a week and VXF about a month.
 
VapourTrails
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:24 am

Thankfully the Pialligo fire has currently been downgraded to Advice level. It started in or near the Redwood Grove Forest, which is heritage protected - as to why it is sitting so close to critical infrastructure IMHO. The fire is burning away from the airport as is the smoke. The airport has not been affected due to this. :thumbsup: The Emergency Services Agency base or headquarters is also nearby so plenty of resources would be around to get on top of it quickly. :relieved:

Source: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... a-airport/
 
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Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:30 pm

Just read on another forum.

I’d say this is a BA/QR Joint Venture?

ACCC receives application for authorisation from British Airways and Qatar Airways

Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) received (16-Jan-2020) an application for authorisation from British Airways and Qatar Airways on 06-Jan-2020, seeking authorisation to coordinate air passenger services on nine routes between Australia and the UK. The nine routes are between Adelaide, Canberra, Melbourne and Perth and the UK, via Doha. The Australia-Doha segment of the routes are currently serviced by Qatar Airways but not British Airways. The Proposed Conduct may involve coordination in relation to scheduling, capacity, revenue planning, joint pricing, sales and marketing activities, service parameters and standards, joint procurement of goods and services and frequent flyer programmes. The carriers also requested interim authorisation to allow them to commence the proposed conduct as soon as possible. A final determination is scheduled for Apr/May-2020.

https://blueswandaily.com/accc-receives-application-for-authorisation-from-british-airways-and-qatar-airways/




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a320fan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:02 pm

EK413 wrote:
Just read on another forum.

I’d say this is a BA/QR Joint Venture?

ACCC receives application for authorisation from British Airways and Qatar Airways

Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) received (16-Jan-2020) an application for authorisation from British Airways and Qatar Airways on 06-Jan-2020, seeking authorisation to coordinate air passenger services on nine routes between Australia and the UK. The nine routes are between Adelaide, Canberra, Melbourne and Perth and the UK, via Doha. The Australia-Doha segment of the routes are currently serviced by Qatar Airways but not British Airways. The Proposed Conduct may involve coordination in relation to scheduling, capacity, revenue planning, joint pricing, sales and marketing activities, service parameters and standards, joint procurement of goods and services and frequent flyer programmes. The carriers also requested interim authorisation to allow them to commence the proposed conduct as soon as possible. A final determination is scheduled for Apr/May-2020.

https://blueswandaily.com/accc-receives-application-for-authorisation-from-british-airways-and-qatar-airways/




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Do they need this authorisation to simply codeshare? Or is it an indicator they’re planning to implement something more substantial.

QR already sells BAs DOH-LHR flight as one of their own, I booked on it a few years ago connecting from MEL as I saved $100 over the pure QR options, even with BAs extortionate seat selection fee. Thankfully the BA flight was cancelled due cabin crew strikes and I got placed on an earlier QR flight. Still a little peeved BA refused to refund the seat selection fee, possibly loosing a customer for life over that one.
 
a7ala
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:21 pm

EK413 wrote:
Just read on another forum.

I’d say this is a BA/QR Joint Venture?

ACCC receives application for authorisation from British Airways and Qatar Airways

Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) received (16-Jan-2020) an application for authorisation from British Airways and Qatar Airways on 06-Jan-2020, seeking authorisation to coordinate air passenger services on nine routes between Australia and the UK. The nine routes are between Adelaide, Canberra, Melbourne and Perth and the UK, via Doha. The Australia-Doha segment of the routes are currently serviced by Qatar Airways but not British Airways. The Proposed Conduct may involve coordination in relation to scheduling, capacity, revenue planning, joint pricing, sales and marketing activities, service parameters and standards, joint procurement of goods and services and frequent flyer programmes. The carriers also requested interim authorisation to allow them to commence the proposed conduct as soon as possible. A final determination is scheduled for Apr/May-2020.

https://blueswandaily.com/accc-receives-application-for-authorisation-from-british-airways-and-qatar-airways/

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Is this possibly a way for QR to get around the limited rights they have into Australia at the moment? They cant serve BNE due to the maxing of the ASA into main airports. I wonder if they would end up having BA fly UK-DOH-PER for example under the new agreement, and then use their own metal to fly to BNE?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:59 pm

Boeing Co’s new chief executive has sent the aerospace giant back to the drawing board on proposals for a new mid-market aircraft, effectively shelving in their current form plans worth $15 billion-$20 billion that had been overtaken by the 737 MAX crisis.
A decision on whether to launch a New Midsize Airplane (NMA) seating 220-270 passengers, which seemed imminent barely a year ago, had already been postponed as Boeing gave all its attention to the grounding of the smaller 737 MAX after two fatal crashes.
But days after taking the helm with a mandate to lift Boeing out of its 10-month-old reputational crisis, Chief Executive Dave Calhoun said the competitive playing field had changed.
“Since the first clean sheet of paper was taken to it, things have changed a bit ... the competitive playing field is a little different,” he told journalists on a conference call on Wednesday. “We’re going to start with a clean sheet of paper again; I’m looking forward to that,” Calhoun said.


https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-boein ... KKBN1ZL31J

Given how keen Alan Joyce was on the NMA, he kept talking it up for both domestic use such as SYD-MEL and east-west as well as to Asia, you have to wonder how this changes things. AJ wanted the Sunrise team to shift their focus to the domestic fleet this year, now that the A350 has been selected for Sunrise, and the NMA was supposed to be a big part of that matrix. Without the Boeing NMA in the mix, does it really come down to the A330neo?
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:14 am

a7ala wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Just read on another forum.

I’d say this is a BA/QR Joint Venture?

ACCC receives application for authorisation from British Airways and Qatar Airways

Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) received (16-Jan-2020) an application for authorisation from British Airways and Qatar Airways on 06-Jan-2020, seeking authorisation to coordinate air passenger services on nine routes between Australia and the UK. The nine routes are between Adelaide, Canberra, Melbourne and Perth and the UK, via Doha. The Australia-Doha segment of the routes are currently serviced by Qatar Airways but not British Airways. The Proposed Conduct may involve coordination in relation to scheduling, capacity, revenue planning, joint pricing, sales and marketing activities, service parameters and standards, joint procurement of goods and services and frequent flyer programmes. The carriers also requested interim authorisation to allow them to commence the proposed conduct as soon as possible. A final determination is scheduled for Apr/May-2020.

https://blueswandaily.com/accc-receives-application-for-authorisation-from-british-airways-and-qatar-airways/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is this possibly a way for QR to get around the limited rights they have into Australia at the moment? They cant serve BNE due to the maxing of the ASA into main airports. I wonder if they would end up having BA fly UK-DOH-PER for example under the new agreement, and then use their own metal to fly to BNE?


QR are not going to pull out of PER for the sake of starting BNE
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8851
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:35 am

qf789 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Just read on another forum.

I’d say this is a BA/QR Joint Venture?

ACCC receives application for authorisation from British Airways and Qatar Airways

Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) received (16-Jan-2020) an application for authorisation from British Airways and Qatar Airways on 06-Jan-2020, seeking authorisation to coordinate air passenger services on nine routes between Australia and the UK. The nine routes are between Adelaide, Canberra, Melbourne and Perth and the UK, via Doha. The Australia-Doha segment of the routes are currently serviced by Qatar Airways but not British Airways. The Proposed Conduct may involve coordination in relation to scheduling, capacity, revenue planning, joint pricing, sales and marketing activities, service parameters and standards, joint procurement of goods and services and frequent flyer programmes. The carriers also requested interim authorisation to allow them to commence the proposed conduct as soon as possible. A final determination is scheduled for Apr/May-2020.

https://blueswandaily.com/accc-receives-application-for-authorisation-from-british-airways-and-qatar-airways/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is this possibly a way for QR to get around the limited rights they have into Australia at the moment? They cant serve BNE due to the maxing of the ASA into main airports. I wonder if they would end up having BA fly UK-DOH-PER for example under the new agreement, and then use their own metal to fly to BNE?


QR are not going to pull out of PER for the sake of starting BNE


The language points to a JBA, not a full JV, so the chance of BA launching DOH-Australia is very low IMHO, but if they did I'm pretty confident that it would be DOH-SYD.QR could then move the second frequency to BNE (or maybe MEL double daily) which would probably be the end of CBR. This is entirely hypothetical though, and the current application wouldn't suggest that this is their thinking.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:36 am

The Pialligo fire is now burning at Emergency level and a second one has started on the other side of the airport at Watch and Act level. Canberra Airport is closed.

EDIT: QF1467 SYD-CBR is diverting to MEL instead of returning to SYD, which seems like an odd decision.
 
81819
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:13 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:40 am

Just came across this interesting article in Flightglobal about Asian LCC's.

https://www.flightglobal.com/has-the-gr ... 90.article

Tidbit for Australia. Jetstar recently signed an interlining agreement with TigerAir Taiwan. Looking at the combined route map, these two businesses probably have a complimentary network. Considering the size of TigerAir Taiwan, this agreement could develop into a more substantial partnership.

With growth in both the Australian and Japanese franchises expected this year; and interlining agreements recently signed with TigerAir Taiwan and Jeju Air of Korea, Jetstar could be again in growth mode, whilst at the same time being a significant player in consolidation of the market.

All we need is for Cathay Pacific's HK Express and Cebu Pacific to join the fold.

The long game could finally start to pay off for QANTAS.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:02 am

Virgin Australia launches Basic Economy fares to the USA, Hong Kong and Tokyo

https://www.executivetraveller.com/comm ... onomy-fare
 
brucetiki
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:33 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Virgin Australia launches Basic Economy fares to the USA, Hong Kong and Tokyo

https://www.executivetraveller.com/comm ... onomy-fare


I'd rather pay the extra $39 for the normal economy fare to be honest. The savings are mininal for the things that are lost.
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:34 am

travelhound wrote:
With growth in both the Australian and Japanese franchises expected this year; and interlining agreements recently signed with TigerAir Taiwan and Jeju Air of Korea, Jetstar could be again in growth mode, whilst at the same time being a significant player in consolidation of the market.

The long game could finally start to pay off for QANTAS.


Still think the returns on most of these investments is zero to negative.
And you've still got some crazy expansion going on in the region (eg. AirAsia order book, or even the recent startup Bamboo in Vietnam)

And I'm not sure if interlining fits the LCC model - it adds costs.
 
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SCFlyer
Posts: 850
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:40 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Virgin Australia launches Basic Economy fares to the USA, Hong Kong and Tokyo

https://www.executivetraveller.com/comm ... onomy-fare


Saving are pretty minimal if VA's long haul basic fare is only one less bag and non-flexibility (aka Non-Refundable whatsover).
 
81819
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:13 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:44 am

moa999 wrote:
travelhound wrote:
With growth in both the Australian and Japanese franchises expected this year; and interlining agreements recently signed with TigerAir Taiwan and Jeju Air of Korea, Jetstar could be again in growth mode, whilst at the same time being a significant player in consolidation of the market.

The long game could finally start to pay off for QANTAS.


Still think the returns on most of these investments is zero to negative.
And you've still got some crazy expansion going on in the region (eg. AirAsia order book, or even the recent startup Bamboo in Vietnam)

And I'm not sure if interlining fits the LCC model - it adds costs.


The Jetstar model was always based on a pan-Asian strategy.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:49 am

Really sad, if true.

MELBOURNE (Reuters) - An aircraft fighting bushfires in Australia lost contact with ground control and may have crashed, officials said on Thursday, as soaring temperatures and strong winds fanned blazes in the country’s southeast including one on the capital’s doorstep.
The New South Wales (NSW) Rural Fire Service said it was investigating the incident involving Large Air Tanker (LAT) flying in the state’s Snowy Monaro region.
“Local ground crews indicate the aircraft may have crashed,” the fire service said in a statement. “A number of helicopters are in the area carrying out a search.”
The fire service did not immediately respond to requests for further detail. Local media reported that the aircraft was a C130 waterbomber and that it was working near a large fire in a national park.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-aust ... SKBN1ZL30C
 
Qantas737
Posts: 768
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:49 am

Reports that the C-130 LAT fighting the fires in the Snowy Mountains region has lost contact with ATC and believed to have crashed. Tragic news.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-23/ ... e/11893554
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2846
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:08 am

SCFlyer wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Virgin Australia launches Basic Economy fares to the USA, Hong Kong and Tokyo

https://www.executivetraveller.com/comm ... onomy-fare


Saving are pretty minimal if VA's long haul basic fare is only one less bag and non-flexibility (aka Non-Refundable whatsover).


I dunno, across a family of 4 heading to LA it's almost $200.
 
brucetiki
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:35 am

Qantas737 wrote:
Reports that the C-130 LAT fighting the fires in the Snowy Mountains region has lost contact with ATC and believed to have crashed. Tragic news.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-23/ ... e/11893554


Wreckage found :(

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... y-thursday

Meanwhile CBR is still closed. Virgin have cancelled all flights to/from CBR for today. Qantas still has the evening flights scheduled, but with a watch and act and an emergency level fire near/near-ish to CBR, I can see them being cancelled too.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2744
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:36 am

qf789 wrote:
a7ala wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Just read on another forum.

I’d say this is a BA/QR Joint Venture?

ACCC receives application for authorisation from British Airways and Qatar Airways

Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) received (16-Jan-2020) an application for authorisation from British Airways and Qatar Airways on 06-Jan-2020, seeking authorisation to coordinate air passenger services on nine routes between Australia and the UK. The nine routes are between Adelaide, Canberra, Melbourne and Perth and the UK, via Doha. The Australia-Doha segment of the routes are currently serviced by Qatar Airways but not British Airways. The Proposed Conduct may involve coordination in relation to scheduling, capacity, revenue planning, joint pricing, sales and marketing activities, service parameters and standards, joint procurement of goods and services and frequent flyer programmes. The carriers also requested interim authorisation to allow them to commence the proposed conduct as soon as possible. A final determination is scheduled for Apr/May-2020.

https://blueswandaily.com/accc-receives-application-for-authorisation-from-british-airways-and-qatar-airways/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is this possibly a way for QR to get around the limited rights they have into Australia at the moment? They cant serve BNE due to the maxing of the ASA into main airports. I wonder if they would end up having BA fly UK-DOH-PER for example under the new agreement, and then use their own metal to fly to BNE?


QR are not going to pull out of PER for the sake of starting BNE


No reason why BA can’t do LHR-DOH-BNE then - I’ve often thought it would make sense for BA/QR to have a JV especially give the QR stake in IAG. Can’t see BA pulling out of SIN-SYD but could see them adding DOH-MEL/BNE where QR are maxed out and have indicated they’d like additional frequency to both ports.

Given QR were in Oneworld I often felt it a shame they didn’t do a three way JV with QF/BA as opposed to EK/QF. But wouldn’t have included the Tasman.
 
qf2048
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:16 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:50 am

bjwonline wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
JAL is swapping its SYD-HND Boeing 787-9 for a Boeing 777-300ER, which will make it the only carrier flying first class between Sydney and Tokyo

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... yo-flights


I still find it very strange how CX don't fly any F to SYD/MEL especially given the large number of onward connections they can offer through HKG. With SQ, QF and now JL finding a limited market for F it just puzzles me that CX don't want a share.

What will be interesting is what happens in the southern winter. In recent years we've see a 789 in our summer and 788 in the winter. I didn't see if the 77W will be year round or if either the 788/789 will return for the southern winter months. Increasing from a 788 (especially in JL config) to a 77W for the winter is quite a capacity jump.

This could also be the first sign of a new agreement with QF following the VA/ANA tie-up and assignment of HND slots. Under a new QF/JL JV or revised codeshare agreement this move to increase capacity from JL could be to absorb some fo the pending loss in QF capacity once the 744 is gone. A September start for the 77W could fit in well with the QF 744 retirement. I've been thinking part of the reason we've not had any news from QF regarding SYD-HND is not just aircraft choice but because they are waiting on submission of a new partnership with JAL.


I have thought the same thing too. If QF/JL start a partnership the QF 26 could turn straight around and become a morning departure from HND. Wouldn't need to park a frame all day in Tokyo. Both ports would then have a morning and evening departure in both directions and complete with the ANA schedule. The 777 would replace some of the 747 seats lost when it gets retired. I think it will end being replaced by the three class 789.
Just my 0.02c
 
a19901213
Posts: 186
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:17 am

Remember JAL’s 77W doesn’t have that many seats, (244) it’s not much increase in terms of capacity.
 
moa999
Posts: 1125
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:08 am

QF/EK was before QR.. and provides more options.
Even though personally I prefer QR

It's a great help for QF however, as EK knows QF have another suiter if they ever want to change terms (the power of the QFF program)
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:20 am

Canberra Airport has reopened, all flights for VA cancelled, SQ has also cancelled for today, QF with limited services

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-u ... eb4014bd34
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:31 am

As from tomorrow VA will no longer accept bookings until further notice on AVIH's - snub nosed breeds on any VA or VARA flight. Those who have previously booked AVIH's who fit within this category will however be honoured
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:42 am

aerokiwi wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Virgin Australia launches Basic Economy fares to the USA, Hong Kong and Tokyo

https://www.executivetraveller.com/comm ... onomy-fare


Saving are pretty minimal if VA's long haul basic fare is only one less bag and non-flexibility (aka Non-Refundable whatsover).


I dunno, across a family of 4 heading to LA it's almost $200.


Over the past few months VA has being working on bringing in new initiatives focused on the economy passenger and largely aimed at families. While some at the time referred to it as a PR stunt, the change in baggage allowance for infants was the first step. While changes like introducing a basic economy fare doesn't sound like much to those travelling as families they make a big difference and the feedback from passengers so far is positive
 
a320fan
Posts: 1006
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:05 am

qf789 wrote:
As from tomorrow VA will no longer accept bookings until further notice on AVIH's - snub nosed breeds on any VA or VARA flight. Those who have previously booked AVIH's who fit within this category will however be honoured

What does this mean?
 
moa999
Posts: 1125
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:16 am

Avih = pets in hold.
Snub nosed = Pugs, Bulldogs, terriers

Looks like Qantas started it after a few deaths on board

https://10daily.com.au/news/australia/a ... s-20200119
 
smi0006
Posts: 2744
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:23 am

moa999 wrote:
Avih = pets in hold.
Snub nosed = Pugs, Bulldogs, terriers

Looks like Qantas started it after a few deaths on board

https://10daily.com.au/news/australia/a ... s-20200119


I’m sure this ban happened 3-5 years ago also?
 
anstar
Posts: 3409
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:28 am

qf2220 wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Virgin Australia Velocity Frequent Flyer CEO resigns.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/compani ... 53t0c.html


Am I the only one that finds it wierd that he left without a replacement ?


If it is coming back in house they probably dont need a CEO level manager but someone 'lower level' that manages a division within a company under a CEO....


Head of Loyalty?
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - January 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:18 pm

anstar wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:

Am I the only one that finds it wierd that he left without a replacement ?


If it is coming back in house they probably dont need a CEO level manager but someone 'lower level' that manages a division within a company under a CEO....


Head of Loyalty?


Exactly that.
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