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tphuang
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:52 pm

chepos wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

As I said before, you people asked why B6 is keeping some of these routes around. I said they want to keep these routes along for a time when A220 becomes available and attention shifts away from Boston. Obviously, some markets are underperforming to the piont they don't even want to wait for 2 or 3 more years.

In another 2 or 3 years, they will shift their focus back to FLL and have A220s around. We will see what they add. B6 is far from done with its FLL station.

And B6's biggest competition in South Florida is NK, not AA. AA has plenty to worry on its own hand with DL/Latam partnership.

So, B6 is dropping flights to BGI and reducing to POS because of an airline that serves neither destination? Anyway, this decision to drop BGI and reduce POS significantly came after AA increased frequencies on both but NK I guess.


I mean according to some, B6 is supposedly eating AA’s lunch out of MIA (which is why B6 is dropping some routes?), and the A220 is the magic touch which will soon turn underperforming routes around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I understand that you are not happy that I keep telling the world that AA's JFK cuts are real, but please do make sure to read what I wrote. Is it a secret that mint has been eating AA's lunch at MIA? don't conflate different arguments to suit your need.

Overall, the biggest threat to B6 at FLL is NK expansion. It may not factor in on BGI/POS, but as a whole to their FLL network, NK is the biggest issue they are dealing with. Again, you can keep focusing on the 3 or 4 routes and assume that tells the story for the entire network.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2962
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:49 pm

aa1818 wrote:
The only routes I can see as viable for CAL are PTY (lots of yield and CM has reduced capacity so I think there's a golden opportunity to become established),
CM has reduced capacity because it's flying E190, the moment the E190 are gone, POS would most likely remain twice daily with B737-700/800, perhaps, IMHO, even later PTY evening departure and earlier POS departure (red-eyes) to maximixe connections @ PTY.

and IAD (I remember chatting to a very senior guy at AA-MIA who is now retired and he said the number one connecting destination is Washington DC for POS-MIA).
BWI could also work well for a POS-WAS and it'd be even cheaper to operate than IAD.

FLL (and then BWI plus HOU) are big WN stations, I still wonder why BW hasn't come closer to do something with WN.

Re: NK vs B6 @ FLL for the Caribbean
Any resemblance to AA vs UA @ MIA for Central and South America, once upon a time, is just a coincidence.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
ryby92
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:14 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ryby92 wrote:

Colour me blue. I wonder how those A220 CASM king jets would have worked out!


As I said before, you people asked why B6 is keeping some of these routes around. I said they want to keep these routes along for a time when A220 becomes available and attention shifts away from Boston. Obviously, some markets are underperforming to the piont they don't even want to wait for 2 or 3 more years.

In another 2 or 3 years, they will shift their focus back to FLL and have A220s around. We will see what they add. B6 is far from done with its FLL station.

And B6's biggest competition in South Florida is NK, not AA. AA has plenty to worry on its own hand with DL/Latam partnership.

So, B6 is dropping flights to BGI and reducing to POS because of an airline that serves neither destination? Anyway, this decision to drop BGI and reduce POS significantly came after AA increased frequencies on both but NK I guess.


Brickell305

Exactly correct but let's wait two or three years from now to see what transpires.
 
caribbean484
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:13 am

aa1818 wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:
I guess we will have to wait and see how it plays out, but rumours are swirling around that there should be 1 in KIN to run some regional flights from the northern Caribbean. Basically, they are going with the strat plan developed in 2010 to develop a regional hub in POS and KIN with 9 ATRs.
The other aspect that remains to be seen is how the jet fleet develops; will there be more MAXs? The 2010 strat plan called for 15 737s in fleet and an expanded North and South America network.


Interesting. Even one in KIN would be good but the sector lengths in the northern Caribbean may preclude an 'extensive' network. Is HAV doable from KIN on ATR? GCM for sure would make sense. Maybe PAP, SDQ?

15 737s seems overkill without significant route expansion no?
If more ATRs free up some 737s like KIN-HAV, reduced POS-GEO (if OGL is run with ATRs) and POS-CUR.
What North/ South American routes could be on the cards?
The only routes I can see as viable for CAL are PTY (lots of yield and CM has reduced capacity so I think there's a golden opportunity to become established), and IAD (I remember chatting to a very senior guy at AA-MIA who is now retired and he said the number one connecting destination is Washington DC for POS-MIA).

Interesting point to note:
With the addition of these 4 ATRs, CAL's fleet of 9 compared to LIAT's fleet of 10 could make for an interesting regional showdown.

Cheers,
AA1818


KIN-HAV is well within the range of ATRs, but we'll see what happens when the plan takes shape.

15 seems much at this point but that's what the original plan called for. They were looking into Brazil and possibly Columbia as additional routes, in those times CCS was exploding with travel, now things are difficult there.
I believe they were looking at the D.C area for expansion again, and ATL but again we'll see what they plan to do soon.

A388 wrote:
Interesting developments at Caribbean Airlines with those 4 ATR72 additions. First of all, I hope they will get a complete livery and not just airline titles and no tail logo. I am hoping to see them get the new livery but I understand will be introduced later this year.

Time will tell if I'm gonna see their ATR's in CUR too.

A388


There is a planned livery refresh coming, so the a/c will be flying white tail until then.
All ah we is one family
 
danipawa
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:57 am

Air Century closed SJU-STI and SJU-JBQ this Jan..
 
maverick4002
Posts: 291
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:53 am

I mean they use to fly IAD via BGI back in the day no, lots of VFR and University traffic. Not sure if that still works but that should be a viable option again hopefully.

The HOU option with an agreement with Southwest also seems plausible. UA probably makes a lot of money this way.

Maybe beef up GEO to compete against the new entrants?

Not sure where else they can fly that will have meaningful traffic.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1055
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:17 pm

BWA900 wrote:
It is rumored that CAL is postponing deploying the ATR in KIN and would instead go head to head with LIAT in the Eastern Caribbean.

That would be a disaster financially for both airlines. Maybe the plan is to take over LI once and for all.
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:01 pm

caribbean484 wrote:

There is a planned livery refresh coming, so the a/c will be flying white tail until then.


Hopefully a more "Caribbean" theme. They need to look at those "French" airlines, Air Caraibes and Air Antilles for ideas. Look at Caribbean flags. We like color.

The Eastern Caribbean market is not big enough to support two large regional operations. Especially with the current travel tax issue which Caribbean gov'ts have stated that they have no intention in changing because they need the revenues (more than they need intra regional travel). In any case no way that Mia Mottley and Gaston Browne (BGI and ANU prime ministers for those unfamiliar with Caribbean politics) will allow BW to threaten the viability of LIAT, or jobs in ANU. Maybe SDQ and SJU out of POS.

Jamaicans dont do props. KX greatly expanded its GCM KIN route when JM went Dash 8. Both routes have competition. Maybe the can do KIN NAS ATR to coordinate with their E/Caribbean service and run 738s thru to GCM. There is no competition to NAS. I assume that the E145 is also small and unless its much faster the ATR might work, once Cuba permits this route to start.
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:23 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
I mean they use to fly IAD via BGI back in the day no, lots of VFR and University traffic. Not sure if that still works but that should be a viable option again hopefully.

The HOU option with an agreement with Southwest also seems plausible. UA probably makes a lot of money this way.

Maybe beef up GEO to compete against the new entrants?

Not sure where else they can fly that will have meaningful traffic.



An IAD KIN POS, or IAD POS GEO should work. Good VFR and other traffic. They need to bulk up GEO now that AA and B6 have entered (B6 is now taking bookings).

I really do think that BW and PY should figure out how to collaborate. AA is reportedly eyeing PBM now that they are also joining the oil rush, and CM has already entered.
 
baje427
Posts: 814
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:25 pm

caribny wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:

There is a planned livery refresh coming, so the a/c will be flying white tail until then.


Hopefully a more "Caribbean" theme. They need to look at those "French" airlines, Air Caraibes and Air Antilles for ideas. Look at Caribbean flags. We like color.

The Eastern Caribbean market is not big enough to support two large regional operations. Especially with the current travel tax issue which Caribbean gov'ts have stated that they have no intention in changing because they need the revenues (more than they need intra regional travel). In any case no way that Mia Mottley and Gaston Browne (BGI and ANU prime ministers for those unfamiliar with Caribbean politics) will allow BW to threaten the viability of LIAT, or jobs in ANU. Maybe SDQ and SJU out of POS.

Jamaicans dont do props. KX greatly expanded its GCM KIN route when JM went Dash 8. Both routes have competition. Maybe the can do KIN NAS ATR to coordinate with their E/Caribbean service and run 738s thru to GCM. There is no competition to NAS. I assume that the E145 is also small and unless its much faster the ATR might work, once Cuba permits this route to start.

SJU is no longer relevant to most in the region it makes more sense to head to Miami if its solely for shopping. SDQ is too far a route with the ATR from POS. I dont get why CAL would try the EC foray again perhaps they know something we don't.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1055
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:29 pm

caribny wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:

There is a planned livery refresh coming, so the a/c will be flying white tail until then.


Hopefully a more "Caribbean" theme. They need to look at those "French" airlines, Air Caraibes and Air Antilles for ideas. Look at Caribbean flags. We like color.

The Eastern Caribbean market is not big enough to support two large regional operations. Especially with the current travel tax issue which Caribbean gov'ts have stated that they have no intention in changing because they need the revenues (more than they need intra regional travel). In any case no way that Mia Mottley and Gaston Browne (BGI and ANU prime ministers for those unfamiliar with Caribbean politics) will allow BW to threaten the viability of LIAT, or jobs in ANU. Maybe SDQ and SJU out of POS.

Jamaicans dont do props. KX greatly expanded its GCM KIN route when JM went Dash 8. Both routes have competition. Maybe the can do KIN NAS ATR to coordinate with their E/Caribbean service and run 738s thru to GCM. There is no competition to NAS. I assume that the E145 is also small and unless its much faster the ATR might work, once Cuba permits this route to start.

Is there a market for POS-SJU now with no hub on the SJU end? Shopping travel seems to be MIA dominated now. Re SDQ, can an ATR do it with a good payload? Also, how big is the market?
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:42 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
Is there a market for POS-SJU now with no hub on the SJU end? Shopping travel seems to be MIA dominated now. Re SDQ, can an ATR do it with a good payload? Also, how big is the market?



Well those routes are about all BW can do in terms of Eastern Caribbean expansion. BW cannot run a POS ANU to compete with LI because the latter offers connections to SKB, SXM, EIS, STT, SJU, and soon STX. I dont know what market exists for POS FDF. LIAT only has 60% load factors as is. I doubt BW can put ATRs on CUR or PBM because PY will slaughter them. BGI isnt going to give them route rights to SLU and SVD.

So what does BW plan to do with all of these ATRs? Jamaicans dont do turbos and KX is evidence of that when they pushed JM off the KIN GCM.

In the interim BW is charging $200 more on the JFK GEO than does AA, so of course the latter are flying out with good loads in mid January when the traffic drops. I wonder about those people and their market analysis.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1055
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:56 pm

caribny wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
Is there a market for POS-SJU now with no hub on the SJU end? Shopping travel seems to be MIA dominated now. Re SDQ, can an ATR do it with a good payload? Also, how big is the market?



Well those routes are about all BW can do in terms of Eastern Caribbean expansion. BW cannot run a POS ANU to compete with LI because the latter offers connections to SKB, SXM, EIS, STT, SJU, and soon STX. I dont know what market exists for POS FDF. LIAT only has 60% load factors as is. I doubt BW can put ATRs on CUR or PBM because PY will slaughter them. BGI isnt going to give them route rights to SLU and SVD.

So what does BW plan to do with all of these ATRs? Jamaicans dont do turbos and KX is evidence of that when they pushed JM off the KIN GCM.

In the interim BW is charging $200 more on the JFK GEO than does AA, so of course the latter are flying out with good loads in mid January when the traffic drops. I wonder about those people and their market analysis.

The only thing I can think of that would make sense for E. Caribbean expansion would be a POS-SXM/ANU-SDQ. LI no longer serves SDQ so that left a gap in the northeastern Caribbean-SDQ market. Both SXM and ANU have decent sized Dominican VFR markets and it’ll allow BW to add ATR service to either island and serve SDQ as well.

Other than that, unless they do something drastic like pledge to open a base in BGI in exchange for route rights, I don’t see this ending well for them.
 
anjin
Posts: 70
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:49 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:16 pm

Apart from the obvious (St Maarten) which airport in the Caribbean is the busiest/spotter friendly
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 978
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:41 pm

caribny wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:

There is a planned livery refresh coming, so the a/c will be flying white tail until then.



The Eastern Caribbean market is not big enough to support two large regional operations. Especially with the current travel tax issue which Caribbean gov'ts have stated that they have no intention in changing because they need the revenues (more than they need intra regional travel). In any case no way that Mia Mottley and Gaston Browne (BGI and ANU prime ministers for those unfamiliar with Caribbean politics) will allow BW to threaten the viability of LIAT, or jobs in ANU. Maybe SDQ and SJU out of POS.



I wouldn't put any bet with Mia Mottley ref LI right about know. Yes she says in public she wants to get out of LI, but behind the scenes she is making overtures in order to control LI. She has secretly gone to POS to get their long forgotten 2% shares they had in LI and Im told she's spoken to St Lucia and Jamaica about taking over their dormant shares. She has also seemingly given free reign to OneCaribbean and they have registered their aircraft in BGI and I understand they have an AOC from there too. I dont know what her game plan is, but i know she has no long term interest in the survivability of LI.

BW has apparently EIS, SKB and DOM in their sights for their ATR expansion. I wont be surprised if they begin SLU-BGI, SVD-BGI and the coveted BGI-OGL route.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:49 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
The only thing I can think of that would make sense for E. Caribbean expansion would be a POS-SXM/ANU-SDQ. LI no longer serves SDQ so that left a gap in the northeastern Caribbean-SDQ market. Both SXM and ANU have decent sized Dominican VFR markets and it’ll allow BW to add ATR service to either island and serve SDQ as well.

Other than that, unless they do something drastic like pledge to open a base in BGI in exchange for route rights, I don’t see this ending well for them.


SDQ ANU is now served by a Dominican airline, Sky High, which uses an E145. SDQ SXM is now overcrowded with Sky High, Air Century, and Inter Caribbean, all using E145s, and Air Antilles with the ATR. BW would have to compete with people travelling from the English speaking Caribbean to SDQ, instead of relying on the Dominican VFR. I cannot see why SDQ cannot evolve into a tourist/business destination for people from the southeast Caribbean. Inter Caribbean is now running 4x on its SDQ KIN. There are business tied between SDQ and POS.

The problem with BW and BGI/OECS gov'ts is that LI belongs to them and BW is a T&T airline, so they will protect LI. Maybe T&T can eliminate travel taxes for intra Caribbean travel, and a likely increase in travel to/from POS might create more market opportunities. LI isnt as inefficient as it used to be so it isnt as if everyone will gallop to BW, which will struggle to compete in the OECS other than on the POS routes.
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:16 pm

LimaFoxTango wrote:

I wouldn't put any bet with Mia Mottley ref LI right about know. Yes she says in public she wants to get out of LI, but behind the scenes she is making overtures in order to control LI. She has secretly gone to POS to get their long forgotten 2% shares they had in LI and Im told she's spoken to St Lucia and Jamaica about taking over their dormant shares. She has also seemingly given free reign to OneCaribbean and they have registered their aircraft in BGI and I understand they have an AOC from there too. I dont know what her game plan is, but i know she has no long term interest in the survivability of LI.

BW has apparently EIS, SKB and DOM in their sights for their ATR expansion. I wont be surprised if they begin SLU-BGI, SVD-BGI and the coveted BGI-OGL route.


I can see islands north of ANU to be eyed as travel to these islands from POS has traditionally been difficult. However with the high fares ($700+) I dont see travel ever being significant. What is the EIS travel market though? LI abandoned the USVI, before returning with vastly reduced service, They run an EIS BGI nonstop flight. Now BW is eyeing it. I can see SKB, given its role as the OECS financial sector.

BGI OGL is very valuable to LI so she isnt letting that go unless BW offers something. LI is a huge taxes/fees generator for BGI as it is the largest carrier. One Caribbean cannot compete on this. LI is useful for Mia now. She just doesnt intend it to be a millstone around her neck.
 
float66
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:11 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:12 pm

LimaFoxTango wrote:
caribny wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:

There is a planned livery refresh coming, so the a/c will be flying white tail until then.



The Eastern Caribbean market is not big enough to support two large regional operations. Especially with the current travel tax issue which Caribbean gov'ts have stated that they have no intention in changing because they need the revenues (more than they need intra regional travel). In any case no way that Mia Mottley and Gaston Browne (BGI and ANU prime ministers for those unfamiliar with Caribbean politics) will allow BW to threaten the viability of LIAT, or jobs in ANU. Maybe SDQ and SJU out of POS.



I wouldn't put any bet with Mia Mottley ref LI right about know. Yes she says in public she wants to get out of LI, but behind the scenes she is making overtures in order to control LI. She has secretly gone to POS to get their long forgotten 2% shares they had in LI and Im told she's spoken to St Lucia and Jamaica about taking over their dormant shares. She has also seemingly given free reign to OneCaribbean and they have registered their aircraft in BGI and I understand they have an AOC from there too. I dont know what her game plan is, but i know she has no long term interest in the survivability of LI.

BW has apparently EIS, SKB and DOM in their sights for their ATR expansion. I wont be surprised if they begin SLU-BGI, SVD-BGI and the coveted BGI-OGL route.


DOM service with CAL is scheduled for sometime in March.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2962
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:51 pm

caribny wrote:
SDQ ANU is now served by a Dominican airline, Sky High, which uses an E145. SDQ SXM is now overcrowded with Sky High, Air Century, and Inter Caribbean, all using E145s, and Air Antilles with the ATR. BW would have to compete with people travelling from the English speaking Caribbean to SDQ, instead of relying on the Dominican VFR.
Which airlines fly (prop/jet) between ANU/SXM and STI/PUJ?, STI (or POP) and PUJ are major Caribbean airports and not all Dominicans on St Maarten or Antigua do come from Santo Domingo metro proper.
Maybe the GEO-POS-BGI-ANU/SXM-SDQ/STI-PAP/SCU-KIN-HAV/NAS/BZE milk-run sounds interesting?
I cannot see why SDQ cannot evolve into a tourist/business destination for people from the southeast Caribbean. Inter Caribbean is now running 4x on its SDQ KIN. There are business tied between SDQ and POS.
I could see some business ties as Dominican companies would look for English-speaking Caribbean markets and some oil-gas related business; however Dominican Republic, IMHO, attracting crowds of South Eastern Caribbeans is highly unlikely, Dominican Republic does have its attractions which might be of interest, but, given the choice between holidays in D.R. or on Cuba, most likely Cuba would be chosen.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
aa1818
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:16 am

float66 wrote:
DOM service with CAL is scheduled for sometime in March.


Any sources?
Having flown to DOM back at the end of November POS-SVD-BGI-DOM and the reverse on the return, there were a lot of pax doing POS-DOM and DOM-POS. I was pleasantly surprised.

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
dominicl316
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:48 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:47 am

I sometimes wonder if STX or STT would work with BW out of POS. For example, a once or twice weekly POS-STX-STT-POS. One of our USVI politicians even wrote to BW asking them to look into the feasibility of such an operation.

BW still has the old DOT route rights from when they used to include STX as a stop on their POS-KIN milk run pre-1992. Flights used to operate POS-BGI-ANU-STX-KIN-STX-ANU-BGI-SLU-POS on Sundays. On Saturdays, STX was substituted for SJU.

Are there enough STX/STT pax headed to POS and connecting to SLU, BGI, SVD, GND, TAB, and GEO to make this work on a 68 seat ATR, once weekly? Out of these destinations, only SLU has a large immigrant population in the USVI (specifically STX). It should also be mentioned that SLU is one of the few Caribbean nationalities that continue to migrate to USVI. Most other immigrant Caribbean nationalities in the USVI are aging populations (with exception of Haiti, DR, and Dominica).
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 978
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:49 am

dominicl316 wrote:
I sometimes wonder if STX or STT would work with BW out of POS. For example, a once or twice weekly POS-STX-STT-POS. One of our USVI politicians even wrote to BW asking them to look into the feasibility of such an operation.

BW still has the old DOT route rights from when they used to include STX as a stop on their POS-KIN milk run pre-1992. Flights used to operate POS-BGI-ANU-STX-KIN-STX-ANU-BGI-SLU-POS on Sundays. On Saturdays, STX was substituted for SJU.

Are there enough STX/STT pax headed to POS and connecting to SLU, BGI, SVD, GND, TAB, and GEO to make this work on a 68 seat ATR, once weekly? Out of these destinations, only SLU has a large immigrant population in the USVI (specifically STX). It should also be mentioned that SLU is one of the few Caribbean nationalities that continue to migrate to USVI. Most other immigrant Caribbean nationalities in the USVI are aging populations (with exception of Haiti, DR, and Dominica).


BW’s issue is one of geography. Given their southerly POS hub, and their hub and spoke network, will pax want to fly say STT-POS-SLU when a more direct routing from LI may be available? Now I agree, given LI multi stops and connection times, total journey time may very well be the same traveling LI, BUT, LI often time would offer a more direct and shorter trip. I’m not sure how much O/D traffic to POS there is say from EIS.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
trini81
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:49 pm

Article on CAL plans...

https://trinidadexpress.com/business/lo ... 52c7.html#

And I quote “Caribbean Airlines’ vision is to improve regional connectivity from Jamaica and Cuba in the west, to Suriname in the east. This process of building connections across the region is moving steadily ahead. In 2018, the airline added Havana, Cuba and St Vincent and the Grenadines to its network. In 2019, the airline started twice weekly non-stop service between Curacao and Trinidad and between Kingston and Barbados and Kingston and Grand Cayman,” the company said.

Interesting to note CAL has run LIAT off the POS/BGI non stop flights... with all pos/bgi flights stopping in gnd, svd or slu... if CAL could run LIAT off that route then LIAT is in trouble in my opinion...
 
trintocan
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:00 pm

trini81 wrote:
Article on CAL plans...

https://trinidadexpress.com/business/lo ... 52c7.html#

And I quote “Caribbean Airlines’ vision is to improve regional connectivity from Jamaica and Cuba in the west, to Suriname in the east. This process of building connections across the region is moving steadily ahead. In 2018, the airline added Havana, Cuba and St Vincent and the Grenadines to its network. In 2019, the airline started twice weekly non-stop service between Curacao and Trinidad and between Kingston and Barbados and Kingston and Grand Cayman,” the company said.

Interesting to note CAL has run LIAT off the POS/BGI non stop flights... with all pos/bgi flights stopping in gnd, svd or slu... if CAL could run LIAT off that route then LIAT is in trouble in my opinion...


POS - BGI was never a LI stronghold route in any case. It was traditionally a definitive BWIA route along with which many international carriers, like BA and Eastern, flew between them on routes to and from further afield. When the international carriers moved towards more clearly-defined hub-and-spoke routes and BGI and POS ended up being served by separate flights (and POS ended up dropped by some like BA) BWIA dominated the BGI route with many flights continuing to MIA, JFK, YYZ or LHR. Caribbean Airlines has largely inherited this legacy and leads on the route. LI on POS - BGI largely relied on intermediate stops to keep their planes full with GND, SVD, SLU and formerly TAB in the mix. In the grand scheme LI dropping POS - BGI nonstops does not really call the airline's overall viability into question.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
trintocan
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:10 pm

With BW now planning on operating 9 ATRs, one wonders, where are they going to fly all of them? As mentioned earlier they may move 1 or 2 to KIN and try GCM and HAV with them. Are they considering adding some regional flights directly from TAB? TAB - BGI daily could probably work, TAB - GND probably less than daily. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
caribbean484
Posts: 903
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:57 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:44 pm

trini81 wrote:
Article on CAL plans...

https://trinidadexpress.com/business/lo ... 52c7.html#

And I quote “Caribbean Airlines’ vision is to improve regional connectivity from Jamaica and Cuba in the west, to Suriname in the east. This process of building connections across the region is moving steadily ahead. In 2018, the airline added Havana, Cuba and St Vincent and the Grenadines to its network. In 2019, the airline started twice weekly non-stop service between Curacao and Trinidad and between Kingston and Barbados and Kingston and Grand Cayman,” the company said.

Interesting to note CAL has run LIAT off the POS/BGI non stop flights... with all pos/bgi flights stopping in gnd, svd or slu... if CAL could run LIAT off that route then LIAT is in trouble in my opinion...


As Trintocan mentioned, LI has been on and off the POS-BGI route for as long as I can remember. It is one of the most travelled O/D route in the eastern Caribbean, and one that produces very decent Business traffic. It is one reason why you see CAL schedule 3 daily flights with an early morning Jet service to POS and late-night jet back. This is then complemented by the ATRs during the day.
CAL is the market leader on the POS-GND and SLU routes, but LI also has complementary services to those islands.

trintocan wrote:
With BW now planning on operating 9 ATRs, one wonders, where are they going to fly all of them? As mentioned earlier they may move 1 or 2 to KIN and try GCM and HAV with them. Are they considering adding some regional flights directly from TAB? TAB - BGI daily could probably work, TAB - GND probably less than daily. It will be interesting to see what happens.


One route that can use the expanded service is the POS-ANU service, the current 3w by CAL is insufficient as seats are always taken up. This article a year ago can help;
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sunday-f ... QgS3jJx9Qs
Here is a clue:
Port of Spain is currently Caribbean Airlines only Caribbean hub, but with the new plan Kingston could serve as the hub for Northern Caribbean destinations possibly including places like Cuba, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, the Cayman Islands and The Bahamas.
All ah we is one family
 
dominicl316
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:48 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:10 am

LimaFoxTango wrote:


BW’s issue is one of geography. Given their southerly POS hub, and their hub and spoke network, will pax want to fly say STT-POS-SLU when a more direct routing from LI may be available? Now I agree, given LI multi stops and connection times, total journey time may very well be the same traveling LI, BUT, LI often time would offer a more direct and shorter trip. I’m not sure how much O/D traffic to POS there is say from EIS.


STT-POS-SLU is a lot shorter than STX/STT-MIA-UVF that many Lucian residents in the USVI have to traverse to visit home.

Air Sunshine currently does STX-SLU (sometimes via SKB) once a week. They don't seem interested in expanding service beyond once weekly, so this would be the perfect opportunity to tap into the Lucian populations in the USVI.
 
danipawa
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:55 am

Air Century adding Santiago de Cuba - Santo Domingo starting march 18. Also adding a 3rd CRJ200 already at JBQ
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:12 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
caribny wrote:
SDQ ANU is now served by a Dominican airline, Sky High, which uses an E145. SDQ SXM is now overcrowded with Sky High, Air Century, and Inter Caribbean, all using E145s, and Air Antilles with the ATR. BW would have to compete with people travelling from the English speaking Caribbean to SDQ, instead of relying on the Dominican VFR.
Which airlines fly (prop/jet) between ANU/SXM and STI/PUJ?, STI (or POP) and PUJ are major Caribbean airports and not all Dominicans on St Maarten or Antigua do come from Santo Domingo metro proper.
Maybe the GEO-POS-BGI-ANU/SXM-SDQ/STI-PAP/SCU-KIN-HAV/NAS/BZE milk-run sounds interesting?
I cannot see why SDQ cannot evolve into a tourist/business destination for people from the southeast Caribbean. Inter Caribbean is now running 4x on its SDQ KIN. There are business tied between SDQ and POS.
I could see some business ties as Dominican companies would look for English-speaking Caribbean markets and some oil-gas related business; however Dominican Republic, IMHO, attracting crowds of South Eastern Caribbeans is highly unlikely, Dominican Republic does have its attractions which might be of interest, but, given the choice between holidays in D.R. or on Cuba, most likely Cuba would be chosen.



The market to SDQ is small enough so I dont think that service to secondary cities is possible. Inter Carib recently stopped its EIS STI service.

SDQ is the largest city in the Caribbean, other than HAV, so it might offer interesting activities. After all modern Caribbean history began there. French Antilleans travel there so I am confident that people from POS, BGI and SLU can if it was promoted to them. Not a mass market, but an interesting niche. DR is a major trading partner for T&T, in fact larger than Jamaica.

No milk runs. BW in fact reconfigured its route to reduce stops.
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:13 am

danipawa wrote:
Air Century adding Santiago de Cuba - Santo Domingo starting march 18. Also adding a 3rd CRJ200 already at JBQ



Curious to discover how Sky High and Air Century compete. Their routes overlap to some degree.
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:23 am

dominicl316 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:


BW’s issue is one of geography. Given their southerly POS hub, and their hub and spoke network, will pax want to fly say STT-POS-SLU when a more direct routing from LI may be available? Now I agree, given LI multi stops and connection times, total journey time may very well be the same traveling LI, BUT, LI often time would offer a more direct and shorter trip. I’m not sure how much O/D traffic to POS there is say from EIS.


STT-POS-SLU is a lot shorter than STX/STT-MIA-UVF that many Lucian residents in the USVI have to traverse to visit home.

Air Sunshine currently does STX-SLU (sometimes via SKB) once a week. They don't seem interested in expanding service beyond once weekly, so this would be the perfect opportunity to tap into the Lucian populations in the USVI.


SLU is quite favorable to BW, meaning that expanding beyond the POS SLU route. I definitely see a POS SLU STX route, and maybe POS SLU SXM. POS ANU daily ATR running on different days to SKB, STT, SJU.
 
Caribbean007
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:21 pm

caribny wrote:
danipawa wrote:
Air Century adding Santiago de Cuba - Santo Domingo starting march 18. Also adding a 3rd CRJ200 already at JBQ



Curious to discover how Sky High and Air Century compete. Their routes overlap to some degree.


Air Century operate in JBQ small airport located in the north of Santo Domingo, Sky High operate in SDQ main airport for Santo Domingo, so I could say the real competition of Sky is with Winair and Intercaribben that shares the market in the route to SXM, routes to AUA and CUR, they just split the market, here a lot people doesnt know that JBQ exist so when they think about travel only came to their mind SDQ. The route to HAV Century is alone in JBQ and Sky High do not fly to Cuba.
 
LightChop2Chop
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:24 pm

DL is launching JFK GCM in June. 1 x weekly
https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-air ... p-flights/
 
A388
Posts: 8001
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:48 pm

caribbean484 wrote:
There is a planned livery refresh coming, so the a/c will be flying white tail until then.


Hey caribbean484, what's up. It's been a very long time since we last corresponded (send me a pm). I hope all is well on your side. As sad as it sounds about the ATR white tail, I can see it makes sense to wait for the brand refresh. Is there a date set when it will be unveiled on their first aircraft?

A388
 
A388
Posts: 8001
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:17 pm

caribny wrote:
However with the high fares ($700+) I dont see travel ever being significant.


Damn, 700 dollars, is that US Dollars? From where to where? What are the prices between the islands in the Eastern Caribbean? I'm glad we (Curacao) are connected to more Caribbean islands now that Caribbean Airlines flies to Curacao. I hope the route will become very successful. Let's see if they will keep the 737 on this route or downsize to the ATR72 with more frequencies.


A388
 
303dk
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:26 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:09 pm

VITEMA is reporting that Sea Flight made an emergency landing on the water between St Croix and St Thomas this morning. Survivors were picked up by boat and taken to St Thomas.
 
303dk
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:26 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:32 pm

303dk wrote:
VITEMA is reporting that Sea Flight made an emergency landing on the water between St Croix and St Thomas this morning. Survivors were picked up by boat and taken to St Thomas.

Looks like everyone is OK.

https://twitter.com/readyusvi/status/12 ... 47392?s=21
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:51 am

A388 wrote:
caribny wrote:
However with the high fares ($700+) I dont see travel ever being significant.


Damn, 700 dollars, is that US Dollars? From where to where? What are the prices between the islands in the Eastern Caribbean? I'm glad we (Curacao) are connected to more Caribbean islands now that Caribbean Airlines flies to Curacao. I hope the route will become very successful. Let's see if they will keep the 737 on this route or downsize to the ATR72 with more frequencies.


A388


1/3 of that fare is taxes which Caribbean gov'ts claim that they cannot reduce as they need the revenues. BW reports that 3 of these new ATRs will be used for international routes, with one allocated to the TAB route. Maybe 1 goes to KIN (unless they start new routes to BZE and PAP). That means 2 for the POS base. Maybe higher frequencies for CUR, though I am not sure if the ATR can compete against PYs 737 which those who fly to CUR are accustomed to using. PY is a fully bilingual Caribbean airlines so T&T folks should be comfortable using them.
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:52 am

303dk wrote:
303dk wrote:
VITEMA is reporting that Sea Flight made an emergency landing on the water between St Croix and St Thomas this morning. Survivors were picked up by boat and taken to St Thomas.

Looks like everyone is OK.

https://twitter.com/readyusvi/status/12 ... 47392?s=21



Glad to hear. I saw it on Facebook and it didn't look pretty.
 
FlyingViking
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:16 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:38 am

Anybody has any info on the Gippsland Airvan N841MB that seems to fly between PTP and ANU? Wonder if its some kind of airline and if so if you can buy a ticket?
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:49 am

FlyingViking wrote:
Anybody has any info on the Gippsland Airvan N841MB that seems to fly between PTP and ANU? Wonder if its some kind of airline and if so if you can buy a ticket?


It isnt a scheduled carrier as only LIAT flies between those points.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:38 pm

It's owned by Aircraft Guaranty Corporation. Looks as if some individual or business is operating the plane between PTP and ANU. Only LI operates scheduled flights on this route 3x/weekly.
 
A388
Posts: 8001
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
And B6's biggest competition in South Florida is NK, not AA. AA has plenty to worry on its own hand with DL/Latam partnership.


AA is definitely the biggest competitor to B6 and NK for that matter in South Florida. FLL and MIA basically serve the same market in Florida and maybe even as competing hubs. The difference is that one is stronger as legacy airline hub while the other is stronger as low cost airline hub but they definitely compete with each other. It's not like AA can be ignored by B6 and NK in Florida.

A388
 
tphuang
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:08 pm

A388 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
And B6's biggest competition in South Florida is NK, not AA. AA has plenty to worry on its own hand with DL/Latam partnership.


AA is definitely the biggest competitor to B6 and NK for that matter in South Florida. FLL and MIA basically serve the same market in Florida and maybe even as competing hubs. The difference is that one is stronger as legacy airline hub while the other is stronger as low cost airline hub but they definitely compete with each other. It's not like AA can be ignored by B6 and NK in Florida.

A388

If you read what JetBlue has said recently. The Caribbean weakness they are experiencing out of FLL are due to all the extra capacity from nk.
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:51 pm

tphuang wrote:
A388 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
And B6's biggest competition in South Florida is NK, not AA. AA has plenty to worry on its own hand with DL/Latam partnership.


AA is definitely the biggest competitor to B6 and NK for that matter in South Florida. FLL and MIA basically serve the same market in Florida and maybe even as competing hubs. The difference is that one is stronger as legacy airline hub while the other is stronger as low cost airline hub but they definitely compete with each other. It's not like AA can be ignored by B6 and NK in Florida.

A388

If you read what JetBlue has said recently. The Caribbean weakness they are experiencing out of FLL are due to all the extra capacity from nk.



And why cannot B6 compete against NK?
 
tphuang
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:01 pm

caribny wrote:
tphuang wrote:
A388 wrote:

AA is definitely the biggest competitor to B6 and NK for that matter in South Florida. FLL and MIA basically serve the same market in Florida and maybe even as competing hubs. The difference is that one is stronger as legacy airline hub while the other is stronger as low cost airline hub but they definitely compete with each other. It's not like AA can be ignored by B6 and NK in Florida.

A388

If you read what JetBlue has said recently. The Caribbean weakness they are experiencing out of FLL are due to all the extra capacity from nk.



And why cannot B6 compete against NK?


Nk cost is a lot lower. Makes things hard on price sensitive type of routes.

Nk has also had serious rasm issues in the past quarter.
 
Caribbean007
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:37 pm

Avianca is increasing from 7 to 14 weekly flights BOG-SDQ starting March 29 for new flight are using A319 and effect July 02 changing to A320, that most be the reaction to Wingo who has 3 weekly flights with very good load factor, after 2 months they started the route increased from 2 to 3 weekly flights into SDQ.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... %20domingo
 
AEROFAN
Posts: 1868
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:47 am

Re: Carribbean Aviation Thread 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:40 pm

ryby92 wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

I have no idea what you are saying. The question is how they are maintaining these routes. And the answer is that at 3x weekly, it's sustainable for them. There is plenty of routes in their network that went down to 3x weekly and then back up to daily. A lot of these routes are just waiting for A220-300, which will turn around the performance overnight.


A220 solves many problems. There are 22 fewer seats to fill than A320 and it has much lower CASM than A320. I suggest you look at the economics of A220-300 first. It can survive while getting 20 to 30% lower yield than AA. Many routes in B6 network have been turned around through downgauging with the most recent FLL one being MSY. And once they get A220 on these routes, they can go daily, which will allow them to capture more higher yielding traffic.

What people on this thread don't seem to understand about B6 at FLL is that it's in the backburners at the moment. There is very little growth going on at FLL while BOS is getting 75% of their growth and NYC getting another 20%. This is a radical change from 3 years ago when FLL was growing on steroid. But give another 18 months, the attention will come back to Florida. They are still 30 flights away from the stated goal of 140 daily flights and I think it will go beyond that. A lot of these routes are getting cut to subdaily because FLL is getting treated like a mature station that's maximizing profit rather than a growth station. In reality, it has a lot of growth left to go, but the growth has just been put on a 4 year pause.

Once the attention turns back to FLL in 18 months to 2 years, you will see a lot of A321NEOs and A220 deployed here along with much greater willingness to lose money for network building reasons. There is no reason to exit all these markets when they intend to grow them again. On the other hand, MIA is an below average margined hub for AA (I posted a breakdown of estimated profitability of AA hubs a while back in the AA network thread). What B6 has going on at FLL is a lot more sustainable.


Wait what does this have to do with POS-FLL going from daily 5 years ago to 3w this year? Also what does this have to do with the fact that they are comepting with 2 airlines offering 5 daily between POS-MIA/FLL while maintaining 3w? Also what do this have to do with the fact they are not the fare leader on the market?

The assumption is being made that the competition will stay still and that is never a concept to be taken lightly. Considering that both AA and CAL will be getting the MAX when Boeing resolves its issues with the FAA certification, that is a big stretch to take. The comeptition will not stand still, even if they decided to place an A222 on the route.



Caribbean 484 - it's useless trying to use reason and logic as clearly only the blue lens is working. It is obvious the FLL has underperformed for B6 whether some will admit it or not. If B6 has such a cost advantage why then is it that they have performed so poorly in FLL to the extent that they have to cut back. A handful of people going to shop is hardly enough to fill up the plane. and unlike NY the population of Barbadians and Trinis in So FL is too tiny to rely on O&D traffic. I give them full credit wrt NY.

But let's wait for the A220 to show up.



By same token, AA which was the incumbent and entrenched in the JFKBGI, market should not have been run out of that market. Yet B6 did run them out. And during some seasonal times, that market can have up to 4 flights per day.
Given enough time, FLL ops will be just as profitable. For the last two years I have taken B6 to BGI from the DC area using FLL as the connecting point. I just wish B6 would stick to a proper time...
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ~Harlan Ellison~
 
caribny
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Carribbean Aviation Thread 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:41 pm

AEROFAN wrote:
ryby92 wrote:
caribbean484 wrote:

Wait what does this have to do with POS-FLL going from daily 5 years ago to 3w this year? Also what does this have to do with the fact that they are comepting with 2 airlines offering 5 daily between POS-MIA/FLL while maintaining 3w? Also what do this have to do with the fact they are not the fare leader on the market?

The assumption is being made that the competition will stay still and that is never a concept to be taken lightly. Considering that both AA and CAL will be getting the MAX when Boeing resolves its issues with the FAA certification, that is a big stretch to take. The comeptition will not stand still, even if they decided to place an A222 on the route.



Caribbean 484 - it's useless trying to use reason and logic as clearly only the blue lens is working. It is obvious the FLL has underperformed for B6 whether some will admit it or not. If B6 has such a cost advantage why then is it that they have performed so poorly in FLL to the extent that they have to cut back. A handful of people going to shop is hardly enough to fill up the plane. and unlike NY the population of Barbadians and Trinis in So FL is too tiny to rely on O&D traffic. I give them full credit wrt NY.

But let's wait for the A220 to show up.



By same token, AA which was the incumbent and entrenched in the JFKBGI, market should not have been run out of that market. Yet B6 did run them out. And during some seasonal times, that market can have up to 4 flights per day.
Given enough time, FLL ops will be just as profitable. For the last two years I have taken B6 to BGI from the DC area using FLL as the connecting point. I just wish B6 would stick to a proper time...



AA made a decision to reduce its JFK Caribbean flights and BGI was part of this. B6 is way more established amongst the NY areas travelers to the Caribbean than they are out of SoFL.
 
ryby92
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: Carribbean Aviation Thread 2020

Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:57 pm

caribny wrote:
AEROFAN wrote:
ryby92 wrote:


Caribbean 484 - it's useless trying to use reason and logic as clearly only the blue lens is working. It is obvious the FLL has underperformed for B6 whether some will admit it or not. If B6 has such a cost advantage why then is it that they have performed so poorly in FLL to the extent that they have to cut back. A handful of people going to shop is hardly enough to fill up the plane. and unlike NY the population of Barbadians and Trinis in So FL is too tiny to rely on O&D traffic. I give them full credit wrt NY.

But let's wait for the A220 to show up.



By same token, AA which was the incumbent and entrenched in the JFKBGI, market should not have been run out of that market. Yet B6 did run them out. And during some seasonal times, that market can have up to 4 flights per day.
Given enough time, FLL ops will be just as profitable. For the last two years I have taken B6 to BGI from the DC area using FLL as the connecting point. I just wish B6 would stick to a proper time...



AA made a decision to reduce its JFK Caribbean flights and BGI was part of this. B6 is way more established amongst the NY areas travelers to the Caribbean than they are out of SoFL.


484 Correct. Prior to AA removing the BGI flight B6 only managed 1 A320 flight a day. Only after AA stopped did they increase it to two. Had AA remained on the route they probably will still be at one flight a day. And while they are strong to NY clearly they were no match to SoFl, though some seem to have a very hard time accepting that fact.

if you look at the bigger picture B6 is essentially just a NY and lesser extent Boston airline with respect to BGI. Hard for them to command a corporate traveler from who must travel on a global basis.
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