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caribny
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:04 pm

baje427 wrote:
As you rightly said economic options for the region are limited but tourism isn't going to recover for a while. This really is the most challenging time the Caribbean has been through its going to take extremely great leadership for the region to get through this.



What is ironic is that in the not too distant future (maybe in about 3 years) Guyana will likely be the growth point in the Caribbean. If it is as projected Guyana's economy is likely to grow faster than its ability to absorb such growth, and this might provide opportunities. Both as a source of capital and a market for a range of services that Guyana cannot provide for itself. T&T is busily integrating itself into the GEO economy and Mia Mottley wanted Bajans to look for similar opportunities. Suriname is also likely to experience a similar growth but as Caribbean people are less familiar with that nation travel multipliers will be lower, though English is becoming more widespread in that nation.

What is interesting is that Guyana, in recent years being a source of cheap labor within many Caribbean islands, might be a destination for many who cannot wait for a recovery of the tourism and related sectors. BW will capitalize on it with its POS hub.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:11 am

Seems like VS is sniffing around for MRGs again. I’m sure this is the very last thing that Caribbean governments want to deal with.

https://antiguaobserver.com/govt-shuns- ... ntic-plea/

VS seems to be in an extremely weak negotiating position though. There are very few markets that are working for them. Can they afford to drop more? Also, it’s not as if their flights are likely to be full anyway. Caribbean governments may just cut their losses instead of paying VS to fly 1/4 full planes to their shores.
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:25 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:
caribny wrote:
You cannot book BGI SLU so its gone, at least for the next few months. With JY and Antilles on the route, both will daily flights, it was crowded. I do not see BGI DOM being any better. With all of the travel protocols plus economic uncertainty and the lack of the usual summer events people arent travelling. The two markets which generate the most intra regional travel in the southern Caribbean, POS and GEO, are both closed. BGI doesnt generate as much as people think and much of the BGI bound travel from the OECS is US visa related, clearly nonexistent now.


I remember saying BGI wasn't the mecca of travel many people think, and I got quite a bit of flack for it. LI's route network really enlarged the percieved importance of BGI. Many of LI's passengers were simply passing through, of which most were unnecessary. In this post Covid environment there's no room for interCaribbean, BW, OCL, and Air Antilles all on ANY route.


To be fair, I think travel demand is just depressed across the board. I highly doubt that if LI were currently flying, their numbers out of BGI would be much higher than BW's are currently, hub or not.


Yes, demand is down, but LI's network would've been far greater than BW trying to connect BGI, SVD and GND.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
caribny
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:23 pm

LimaFoxTango wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:

I remember saying BGI wasn't the mecca of travel many people think, and I got quite a bit of flack for it. LI's route network really enlarged the percieved importance of BGI. Many of LI's passengers were simply passing through, of which most were unnecessary. In this post Covid environment there's no room for interCaribbean, BW, OCL, and Air Antilles all on ANY route.


To be fair, I think travel demand is just depressed across the board. I highly doubt that if LI were currently flying, their numbers out of BGI would be much higher than BW's are currently, hub or not.


Yes, demand is down, but LI's network would've been far greater than BW trying to connect BGI, SVD and GND.


I doubt that the absence of LI is what is keeping traffic levels down. I do not think that people are in a mood to travel given their precarious personal financial situations and the fact that the tax/fee component of tickets remains high. Looking at BGI arrival stats most of the people travelling from the OECS (aside from those from SVD and SLU to a lesser degree) were travelling either for visas or for business reasons. This because over 60% were there for 3 days or less. To my surprise more people travel from DOM to BGI than from GND to BGI. I will be curious to see how well JY is doing on their new BGI hub routes.

The motivations for intra regional travel are just not there, especially with POS and GEO (the 2 largest drivers of this travel) now closed. After all how many people are interested in travel between GND and ANU at this time?
 
caribny
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:32 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
Seems like VS is sniffing around for MRGs again. I’m sure this is the very last thing that Caribbean governments want to deal with.

https://antiguaobserver.com/govt-shuns- ... ntic-plea/

VS seems to be in an extremely weak negotiating position though. There are very few markets that are working for them. Can they afford to drop more? Also, it’s not as if their flights are likely to be full anyway. Caribbean governments may just cut their losses instead of paying VS to fly 1/4 full planes to their shores.



VS is now looking for balance sheet support in the same manner that LI was. ANU is preoccupied with rescuing LI (if that is possible) so lack the bandwidth to bother with a major global carrier.

BA can handle the diminished travel out of the UK so why pour anything into VS? UVF didnt seem to be suffering because VS dropped them. BA was willing to fill the gap as can TUI for the more price sensitive end. VS will end up just handling LON BGI, because without the ANU anchor GND and TAB dont make sense. BGI might actually hold up with Spain now getting into COVID trouble again.

AA also doesnt need help as I dont see the direct JFK ANU airlift coming back in a big way too soon so the daily MIA ANU will handle the bulk of travel between ANU and the USA, and AA knows this. Plus they seemed very eager to return and were pushing some of these islands to reopen, so clearly see value in these routes.
 
royroy
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:48 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:35 pm

Anyone know why the Hi Fly A330 has operated OPO-SXM?
 
fowlr29
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:29 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:02 pm

royroy wrote:
Anyone know why the Hi Fly A330 has operated OPO-SXM?


Cruise ship repatriation/charters. There's been multiple cruise ships in and out of the Port of St Maarten over the past two weeks for repatriation, fuel and supplies as the port is open to meet these demands.

HiFly was also in SXM about three weeks ago, along with a TUI 767 for charter flights.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:17 pm

I saw something today briefly about a codeshare / interline between CAL and Virgin Atlantic? Looks like Barbados will be used as a transfer point. CAL will take passengers to other islands and BGI will be the "hub" for flights to London, operated by Virgin.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:38 pm

BW has interline agreements with 21 airlines including VS.

AA AMERICA AIRLINES
AC AIR CANADA
AF AIR FRANCE
AI AIR INDIA
AZ ALITALAIA
BA BRITISH AIRWAYS
CM COPA AIRLINES
DE CONDOR
HR HAHN AIR
HU HAINAN AIRLINES
JY INTERCARIBBEAN AIRWAYS
KE KOREAN AIR
KL KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES
KX CAYMAN AIRWAYS
LI LIAT
PY SURINAM AIRWAYS
QF QANTAS AIRWAYS
UA UNITED AIRLIES
UP BNAHAMASAIR
VS VIRGIN ATLANTIC
WM WINWARD ISLAND AIRWAYS
 
caribny
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:41 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
I saw something today briefly about a codeshare / interline between CAL and Virgin Atlantic? Looks like Barbados will be used as a transfer point. CAL will take passengers to other islands and BGI will be the "hub" for flights to London, operated by Virgin.



This most likely is an interline which VS also has with JY so BW will not be the only transfer option. What will be interesting is ANU is turning down a request from VS for an MRG. If VS then drops ANU GND and TAB will also be gone.
 
Zidane
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:04 pm

VS also codeshares with DL, connections to ANU, GND and UVF are possible from ATL. The inconvenience of having to transit may well have PAX shift onto BA.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:49 pm

caribny wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
I saw something today briefly about a codeshare / interline between CAL and Virgin Atlantic? Looks like Barbados will be used as a transfer point. CAL will take passengers to other islands and BGI will be the "hub" for flights to London, operated by Virgin.



This most likely is an interline which VS also has with JY so BW will not be the only transfer option. What will be interesting is ANU is turning down a request from VS for an MRG. If VS then drops ANU GND and TAB will also be gone.


Did no one see the graphic CAL published? It seems to be alot for interline. Here is the link:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1
 
maverick4002
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:50 pm

Zidane wrote:
VS also codeshares with DL, connections to ANU, GND and UVF are possible from ATL. The inconvenience of having to transit may well have PAX shift onto BA.


Connecting to those island in ATL is a choice when you can make the connection in BGI
 
caribny
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:55 am

maverick4002 wrote:
caribny wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
I saw something today briefly about a codeshare / interline between CAL and Virgin Atlantic? Looks like Barbados will be used as a transfer point. CAL will take passengers to other islands and BGI will be the "hub" for flights to London, operated by Virgin.



This most likely is an interline which VS also has with JY so BW will not be the only transfer option. What will be interesting is ANU is turning down a request from VS for an MRG. If VS then drops ANU GND and TAB will also be gone.


Did no one see the graphic CAL published? It seems to be alot for interline. Here is the link:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1


They are calling it "enhanced interline". This means a one stop booking and passenger handling thru BGI. Depending on connectivity it could work for DOM, SVD,GND, and GEO. Not KIN. This especially if VS drops GND. SLU and ANU as well for those using VS travel packages. Not a codeshare, though it has some features of this. Got this from CALs flight magazine.

Not going to be a big thing as BA will fill any gaps that VS leaves if they drop various Caribbean islands. But might add a few dozen passengers per flight.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:37 pm

Here's an interesting catch from SJU: AA 777 from MIA performing the Lagoon Visual (left circle to land to runway 8 after approaching runway 10). A hallmark approach from the AA hub days when it was commonly conducted by AA flights.

San Juan Airport: American 777, Alaska C-17 & More!

Source: Youtube (User BlueRockerPR)
 
baje427
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:13 pm

BW launched BGI-DOM this weekend let's see how long this will last.
 
debonair
Posts: 4170
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:33 pm

Have any CALEDONIA JETS flight yet taken place?! What's the loadfactor?

https://www.caledoniajets.com/uk-to-bar ... ct-flight/
 
caribny
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:54 pm

https://www.facebook.com/CaribbeanTouri ... on?sk=wall There will be a YouTube event tomorrow at 11AM (EDT). This to discuss post LIAT transportation. JY and BW will duke it out and we will see who the winner will be.

Travel loads are very thin, especially with POS and GEO still closed. No events, no demand for US visas, Zoom replacing face to face business meetings, and extreme economic uncertainty among Caribbean people being the reasons for this collapse in intra regional travel.
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:18 pm

caribny wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/CaribbeanTourismOrganization?sk=wall There will be a YouTube event tomorrow at 11AM (EDT). This to discuss post LIAT transportation. JY and BW will duke it out and we will see who the winner will be.

Travel loads are very thin, especially with POS and GEO still closed. No events, no demand for US visas, Zoom replacing face to face business meetings, and extreme economic uncertainty among Caribbean people being the reasons for this collapse in intra regional travel.


I guess even the CTO considers LI dead.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
baje427
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:53 am

LimaFoxTango wrote:
caribny wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/CaribbeanTourismOrganization?sk=wall There will be a YouTube event tomorrow at 11AM (EDT). This to discuss post LIAT transportation. JY and BW will duke it out and we will see who the winner will be.

Travel loads are very thin, especially with POS and GEO still closed. No events, no demand for US visas, Zoom replacing face to face business meetings, and extreme economic uncertainty among Caribbean people being the reasons for this collapse in intra regional travel.


I guess even the CTO considers LI dead.

I think the only person who doesn't is the Antiguan PM.
 
caribny
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:33 am

baje427 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:
caribny wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/CaribbeanTourismOrganization?sk=wall There will be a YouTube event tomorrow at 11AM (EDT). This to discuss post LIAT transportation. JY and BW will duke it out and we will see who the winner will be.

Travel loads are very thin, especially with POS and GEO still closed. No events, no demand for US visas, Zoom replacing face to face business meetings, and extreme economic uncertainty among Caribbean people being the reasons for this collapse in intra regional travel.


I guess even the CTO considers LI dead.

I think the only person who doesn't is the Antiguan PM.


Last we heard he had investors from "Africa", a Caribbean airline wanting to buy 60%, and 3 Caribbean gov'ts "interested". Well ANU is as well as DOM. Who is the 3rd? Not BGI, SLU, SVD, or GND. Only SKB is left, but they have never been that interested in LIAT. BW isnt going to buy LI and I dont see why JY would when they can get all the route rights that they need if LI never rises again.

Of course we are still to hear which carrier is going to fill the gap up north. WM cannot do it and JY hasnt said that they plan to. The SKB=> ANU=> DOM/BGI corridor remains unserved. Only BGI to the Windwards is covered.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:19 pm

caribny wrote:
baje427 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:

I guess even the CTO considers LI dead.

I think the only person who doesn't is the Antiguan PM.


Last we heard he had investors from "Africa", a Caribbean airline wanting to buy 60%, and 3 Caribbean gov'ts "interested". Well ANU is as well as DOM. Who is the 3rd? Not BGI, SLU, SVD, or GND. Only SKB is left, but they have never been that interested in LIAT. BW isnt going to buy LI and I dont see why JY would when they can get all the route rights that they need if LI never rises again.

Of course we are still to hear which carrier is going to fill the gap up north. WM cannot do it and JY hasnt said that they plan to. The SKB=> ANU=> DOM/BGI corridor remains unserved. Only BGI to the Windwards is covered.

LI was also able to secure debt write offs from some of the regional governments. IMO, this won't be nearly enough to get LI back in the air as obviously debts are mounting from staff, lessors, etc. but at least it's something. As I've said before, I don't see LI getting back in the air. Re the northern islands, I'm of the belief that once a viable market returns, someone will serve it. Maybe not as extensively as LI used to but there will be service.
 
caribny
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:30 pm

When one looks at travel statistics for intra regional travel very few "viable" markets exist, especially if US visa travel is excluded.

ANU BGI generates 9k passengers, 2/3 originating in ANU, most I bet travelling for US visas. BGI GND numbers are even lower. SLU BGI isnt as thick as people think either, which is why, before its demise, LI had been reducing airlift.. With US visa travel much less and business people increasingly using video conferencing this will be difficult. Not sure when next we will have the huge events which generate intra regional travel.

One issue with travel between the north and south is one can bundle everyone in ANU and then fly them south to BGI for further dispersion. In the south each route needs to stand on its own.

Given that intra regional travel will become even more highly discretionary a viable market will not exist if there is no airlift on a route, so until someone connects the southeast Caribbean with the northeast no travel will occur.
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:09 pm

baje427 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:
caribny wrote:
https://www.facebook.com/CaribbeanTourismOrganization?sk=wall There will be a YouTube event tomorrow at 11AM (EDT). This to discuss post LIAT transportation. JY and BW will duke it out and we will see who the winner will be.

Travel loads are very thin, especially with POS and GEO still closed. No events, no demand for US visas, Zoom replacing face to face business meetings, and extreme economic uncertainty among Caribbean people being the reasons for this collapse in intra regional travel.


I guess even the CTO considers LI dead.

I think the only person who doesn't is the Antiguan PM.


That remains to be seen. Time will soon tell.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
baje427
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:41 pm

caribny wrote:
When one looks at travel statistics for intra regional travel very few "viable" markets exist, especially if US visa travel is excluded.

ANU BGI generates 9k passengers, 2/3 originating in ANU, most I bet travelling for US visas. BGI GND numbers are even lower. SLU BGI isnt as thick as people think either, which is why, before its demise, LI had been reducing airlift.. With US visa travel much less and business people increasingly using video conferencing this will be difficult. Not sure when next we will have the huge events which generate intra regional travel.

One issue with travel between the north and south is one can bundle everyone in ANU and then fly them south to BGI for further dispersion. In the south each route needs to stand on its own.

Given that intra regional travel will become even more highly discretionary a viable market will not exist if there is no airlift on a route, so until someone connects the southeast Caribbean with the northeast no travel will occur.


Right now given the economic conditions many in the region are thinking about how they will keep their homes and feed their families. Covid is not letting up anytime soon and until widescale tourism can resume in the region there will be very little money circulating thus, inter regional travel will have limited demand. I am not sure about other countries but the unemployment rate in Barbados in North of 40% so very few people will be travelling for leisure.
 
caribny
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:17 pm

baje427 wrote:
caribny wrote:
When one looks at travel statistics for intra regional travel very few "viable" markets exist, especially if US visa travel is excluded.

ANU BGI generates 9k passengers, 2/3 originating in ANU, most I bet travelling for US visas. BGI GND numbers are even lower. SLU BGI isnt as thick as people think either, which is why, before its demise, LI had been reducing airlift.. With US visa travel much less and business people increasingly using video conferencing this will be difficult. Not sure when next we will have the huge events which generate intra regional travel.

One issue with travel between the north and south is one can bundle everyone in ANU and then fly them south to BGI for further dispersion. In the south each route needs to stand on its own.

Given that intra regional travel will become even more highly discretionary a viable market will not exist if there is no airlift on a route, so until someone connects the southeast Caribbean with the northeast no travel will occur.


Right now given the economic conditions many in the region are thinking about how they will keep their homes and feed their families. Covid is not letting up anytime soon and until widescale tourism can resume in the region there will be very little money circulating thus, inter regional travel will have limited demand. I am not sure about other countries but the unemployment rate in Barbados in North of 40% so very few people will be travelling for leisure.


So thin markets become even thinner. With the UK back in lock down and the USA heading for political instability (some might claim even civil war) I see no likely head of recovery in the tourism sector for quite a while. Those who own BW have deeper pockets than JY so they will be around, even if in a much truncated form.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:34 pm

Alo All,

Per Enrila's OAG Changes most recently updated thread https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1452071;

AA MIA-POS OCT 0.5 > 0 {1.8}


Looking forward to better and safer times.
 
trini81
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:35 pm

https://www.guardian.co.tt/business/cal ... 0c0cf84cf2

Article on CAL looking to save USD1 million a month as the government loans come to end.
Some of the ideas they are looking at include salary cuts and unpaid leave of abscence.
 
baje427
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:36 pm

trini81 wrote:
https://www.guardian.co.tt/business/cal-flying-through-turbulent-times-6.2.1221392.0c0cf84cf2

Article on CAL looking to save USD1 million a month as the government loans come to end.
Some of the ideas they are looking at include salary cuts and unpaid leave of abscence.

With the Trinidadian borders closed there really is so much they can do I suspect given the spike in cases in Trinidad they are even further away from a reopening.
 
caribny
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:56 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
Alo All,

Per Enrila's OAG Changes most recently updated thread https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1452071;

AA MIA-POS OCT 0.5 > 0 {1.8}


Looking forward to better and safer times.



Well POS and SKB are both closed, though the latter is talking about a phased reopening for nationals, residents, and others who own properties locally. For POS no change likely given the COVID 19 problems that see even other CARICOM nations locking them out of a bubble which now includes 8 islands.

Impacts on BW will be severe.
 
trini81
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:26 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:18 pm

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... 26586-0024

Reported in another thread... CAL gets approval for IAH and SJU
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:53 pm

trini81 wrote:
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2006-26586-0024

Reported in another thread... CAL gets approval for IAH and SJU


Congrats to them although they won't be flying either right now. And I guess with the approval of the SJU route, we can put to bed the myth that BW will simply ignore the northern islands.
 
caribny
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:36 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
trini81 wrote:
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2006-26586-0024

Reported in another thread... CAL gets approval for IAH and SJU


Congrats to them although they won't be flying either right now. And I guess with the approval of the SJU route, we can put to bed the myth that BW will simply ignore the northern islands.



Not talking about SJU, which has a "prestige" status. Talking about the smaller islands. Proof will be SKB which opens end of this month.
 
LimaFoxTango
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Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:11 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
trini81 wrote:
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2006-26586-0024

Reported in another thread... CAL gets approval for IAH and SJU


Congrats to them although they won't be flying either right now. And I guess with the approval of the SJU route, we can put to bed the myth that BW will simply ignore the northern islands.


I wouldn't put the theory to bed just yet.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:31 pm

caribny wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
trini81 wrote:
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2006-26586-0024

Reported in another thread... CAL gets approval for IAH and SJU


Congrats to them although they won't be flying either right now. And I guess with the approval of the SJU route, we can put to bed the myth that BW will simply ignore the northern islands.



Not talking about SJU, which has a "prestige" status. Talking about the smaller islands. Proof will be SKB which opens end of this month.

Don’t their SJU route plans include flying through the northern islands of ANU, PTP, SKB, and EIS?
 
Brickell305
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Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:34 pm

LimaFoxTango wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
trini81 wrote:
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2006-26586-0024

Reported in another thread... CAL gets approval for IAH and SJU


Congrats to them although they won't be flying either right now. And I guess with the approval of the SJU route, we can put to bed the myth that BW will simply ignore the northern islands.


I wouldn't put the theory to bed just yet.

Just went back and checked and yes their SJU plan does involve flying through the northern islands

https://paxex.aero/2020/04/caribbean-ai ... nd-hopper/

Now, obviously post COVID, things can change and they may feel that the current demand doesn’t warrant flights. However, it’s clear that their original intent was to service the northern islands. Neglecting to serve them was not part of their plan.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:16 pm

trini81 wrote:
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=DOT-OST-2006-26586-0024

Reported in another thread... CAL gets approval for IAH and SJU


I wonder from where, CAL will choose the -IAH route. I get the case for POS, though will compete against CO (though, they do interline).

That said, and IAH-KIN would also be a decent venture, short hop (all things considered), has no competition (would further be aided by interlining with UA here) and would shorten transit times (most one-stop competitors are connecting via Florida, which is overflying east the then return west - and the trip times show it). Adding to that - the route would almost perfectly be served by a stop in KIN onward to POS (as it almost lies on the optimal routing, and at almost even distance between both points) and BW might be able to offer same-aircraft transfers to POS, if they time the stop well (and still undercut any other routings to POS for time, and costs - save for UA on the non-stop IAH-POS). If demand fits, right time a bank at KIN and see what else can take on from the route (connections to BGI, and/or wherever the ATRs can profitably fly from there as well). BW has a decently placed hub, and likely lower costs than UA - it can work out well, if they decide to manage it well.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:34 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
Just went back and checked and yes their SJU plan does involve flying through the northern islands
https://paxex.aero/2020/04/caribbean-ai ... nd-hopper/
Now, obviously post COVID, things can change and they may feel that the current demand doesn’t warrant flights. However, it’s clear that their original intent was to service the northern islands. Neglecting to serve them was not part of their plan.


...and in quite an extensive way, too. Just to clarify a little, the "northern islands" scheme looked as if it was meant to;

https://paxex.aero/2020/04/caribbean-airlines-milk-run-island-hopper/
Even with the multiple stops en route, Caribbean Airlines expects to deliver a significant boost to the San Juan – Dominica market. That pairing saw approximately 32,000 annual travelers in 2017 and is down 75% today, according to the company. The carrier expects to double the number of passengers with this new service.
Caribbean Airlines similarly expects to boost traffic to Tortola and to help grow the market connecting San Juan to St. Maarten and Antigua.


Of note though - was the routing;

https://paxex.aero/2020/04/caribbean-airlines-milk-run-island-hopper/

The carrier plans three iterations of this new island hopper route, alternating service throughout the week to increase the breadth of connections offered.
The flight will begin in Port of Spain, flying to Dominica and then on to Barbados according to filings made this week with the US Department of Transportation.
From Barbados the routing splits depending on the day of week.
Two days a week will see the flight continue to Antigua, followed by Tortola before terminating at San Juan.
The alternate route sees the flight connect Barbados to St Maarten before continuing to Tortola and then San Juan.
A third option, operating the other three days of the week, will see the carrier fly from Barbados to St. Kitts, Antigua and Guadeloupe according to the filing.


That level of coordination certainly required a lot of local approvals, and perhaps incentives (and understandably, with little demand might not work now). That said, with the ATRs stationed at BGI, this could be a decent way to utilize the fleet. I could also see some cargo working on these flights, but only in addition to what passenger yields do to assist, as I cannot see governments being as willing as they once were to assist. Hopefully this provides the basis for reliable and cost effective services in the region. We all know that the region deserves better service. Here's to hoping for a rebound, to help with these plans.
 
caribny
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:09 am

Brickell305 wrote:
caribny wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:

Congrats to them although they won't be flying either right now. And I guess with the approval of the SJU route, we can put to bed the myth that BW will simply ignore the northern islands.



Not talking about SJU, which has a "prestige" status. Talking about the smaller islands. Proof will be SKB which opens end of this month.

Don’t their SJU route plans include flying through the northern islands of ANU, PTP, SKB, and EIS?


Just merely stopping at an island with nominal service and having to spend a day to get there isnt a LI replacement. That BW route reminds me of the old LI days when it took almost an entire day due to the numerous stops. People dont have time for that anymore. Those routes just looked like someone drawing lines between islands.

Hopefully ANU comes to their senses and allows Inter Caribbean to set up a hub there. BW should just try low frequency express flights into the northern Caribbean out of BGI/POS with connections from OGL/GEO. I remained unconvinced that BW understands markets other than POS/GEO. Look how they have let B6 toss them out of the Jamaica VFR markets. They have now dropped their KIN MIA route so no longer service Jamaica SoFL.

IAH for BW will entail connections to GEO. No IAH KIN.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:25 pm

caribny wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
caribny wrote:


Not talking about SJU, which has a "prestige" status. Talking about the smaller islands. Proof will be SKB which opens end of this month.

Don’t their SJU route plans include flying through the northern islands of ANU, PTP, SKB, and EIS?


Just merely stopping at an island with nominal service and having to spend a day to get there isnt a LI replacement. That BW route reminds me of the old LI days when it took almost an entire day due to the numerous stops. People dont have time for that anymore. Those routes just looked like someone drawing lines between islands.

Hopefully ANU comes to their senses and allows Inter Caribbean to set up a hub there. BW should just try low frequency express flights into the northern Caribbean out of BGI/POS with connections from OGL/GEO. I remained unconvinced that BW understands markets other than POS/GEO. Look how they have let B6 toss them out of the Jamaica VFR markets. They have now dropped their KIN MIA route so no longer service Jamaica SoFL.

IAH for BW will entail connections to GEO. No IAH KIN.

KIN-MIA is still open for sale on their website. I just did a dummy booking for Oct 5-12.

I also checked past flights and it flew on September 28. The flight is now running once weekly on Monday. It hasn’t been dropped.
 
maverick4002
Posts: 399
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:20 pm

caribny wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
caribny wrote:


Not talking about SJU, which has a "prestige" status. Talking about the smaller islands. Proof will be SKB which opens end of this month.

Don’t their SJU route plans include flying through the northern islands of ANU, PTP, SKB, and EIS?


Just merely stopping at an island with nominal service and having to spend a day to get there isnt a LI replacement. That BW route reminds me of the old LI days when it took almost an entire day due to the numerous stops. People dont have time for that anymore. Those routes just looked like someone drawing lines between islands.

Hopefully ANU comes to their senses and allows Inter Caribbean to set up a hub there. BW should just try low frequency express flights into the northern Caribbean out of BGI/POS with connections from OGL/GEO. I remained unconvinced that BW understands markets other than POS/GEO. Look how they have let B6 toss them out of the Jamaica VFR markets. They have now dropped their KIN MIA route so no longer service Jamaica SoFL.

IAH for BW will entail connections to GEO. No IAH KIN.


As if the Jamaicans ever had any love for BW?
 
caribny
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:42 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
caribny wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
Don’t their SJU route plans include flying through the northern islands of ANU, PTP, SKB, and EIS?


Just merely stopping at an island with nominal service and having to spend a day to get there isnt a LI replacement. That BW route reminds me of the old LI days when it took almost an entire day due to the numerous stops. People dont have time for that anymore. Those routes just looked like someone drawing lines between islands.

Hopefully ANU comes to their senses and allows Inter Caribbean to set up a hub there. BW should just try low frequency express flights into the northern Caribbean out of BGI/POS with connections from OGL/GEO. I remained unconvinced that BW understands markets other than POS/GEO. Look how they have let B6 toss them out of the Jamaica VFR markets. They have now dropped their KIN MIA route so no longer service Jamaica SoFL.

IAH for BW will entail connections to GEO. No IAH KIN.

KIN-MIA is still open for sale on their website. I just did a dummy booking for Oct 5-12.

I also checked past flights and it flew on September 28. The flight is now running once weekly on Monday. It hasn’t been dropped.



With AA back up to 2X on most days (not sure that they have mid week flights) Mo only for BW is place holding. That is a virtual exit. Now that BW has to make serious cuts as it doesnt look like they will get any more support from the TT gov't serious decisions are going to have to be made. KIN JFK and KIN BGI (via ANU) are probably good. That MIA is shaky. With Carnival canceled I dont think that TT is opening too soon, so they are in dire straits.
Last edited by caribny on Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
caribny
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:48 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
As if the Jamaicans ever had any love for BW?



That being my point. They squandered loyalties that some Jamaicans still had for JM and that could have been a base that BW could have built on. But they didnt and now in a post Covid world where they can ill afford loss making routes who knows what the future of their KIN base. Its probably clear that they have left MBJ.

Baggage policies more favorable than that offered by the competition (in an era when Caribbean people still traveled heavy) could have been a draw (I think they were still 2 free bags at the time). But BW squandered it with a poor introduction with ample delays.
 
Caymanair
Posts: 526
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:53 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:42 am

Cayman Airways has now taken over the country's travel authorisation process. They will be responsible for approving inbound travel, coordinating the quarantine process for both those at government facilities and those permitted to quarantine at a private residence and will work with Customs & Border Control and the Heath Services Authority. This is for all travelers, on all airlines and by private jet.

https://www.caymancompass.com/2020/10/0 ... placement/

Also, CAL retired the second 737-300 recently... a year late as a result of the MAX issues. Was a wonderful retirement ceremony for an aircraft that has had a great run! It was ferried to VCV 'pending sale'.

https://www.caymanairways.com/cal-retires-vp-cay
 
LimaFoxTango
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Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:22 pm

It is almost certain now that the Antigua-based regional carrier, LIAT, will return to the skies, perhaps as early as next month.

This is the latest update from Cabinet spokesman, Minister of Information, Melford Nicholas, who said the positive news was passed on to the Cabinet by Prime Minister Gaston Browne.

https://antiguanewsroom.com/liat-could- ... -nicholas/

Still too early to tell of this is going to be successful.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
Brickell305
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Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:42 pm

LimaFoxTango wrote:
It is almost certain now that the Antigua-based regional carrier, LIAT, will return to the skies, perhaps as early as next month.

This is the latest update from Cabinet spokesman, Minister of Information, Melford Nicholas, who said the positive news was passed on to the Cabinet by Prime Minister Gaston Browne.

https://antiguanewsroom.com/liat-could- ... -nicholas/

Still too early to tell of this is going to be successful.

I’ll believe it when I see it. He gave that statement with absolutely zero details on how LI would be able to restart. No information on when bookings would reopen, how many planes would remain, what destinations/schedule would be served, how staff would be brought back. That statement was complete wind pie in my mind.
 
caribny
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:35 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:
It is almost certain now that the Antigua-based regional carrier, LIAT, will return to the skies, perhaps as early as next month.

This is the latest update from Cabinet spokesman, Minister of Information, Melford Nicholas, who said the positive news was passed on to the Cabinet by Prime Minister Gaston Browne.

https://antiguanewsroom.com/liat-could- ... -nicholas/

Still too early to tell of this is going to be successful.

I’ll believe it when I see it. He gave that statement with absolutely zero details on how LI would be able to restart. No information on when bookings would reopen, how many planes would remain, what destinations/schedule would be served, how staff would be brought back. That statement was complete wind pie in my mind.




We all piled on LI in times past but it really doesnt look as if the current arrangement is working, with several airlines battling each other for market share of a dwindling number of passengers. T&T, the largest source of regional travel, isnt opening in the near term.

BW is now in serious trouble with the pandemic lasting longer than anticipated, and with T&T remaining closed. No one wants to speak on this, but do we really know what Inter Caribbean's financial position is? Unlike BW they have no other back stop if they get into serious trouble. Take a look at TripAdvisor and this is a ONE star airline. NOT reassuring! WORSE than LI in its worst days! WM is also challenged and cannot fill the gap. Air Antilles will always be a bit player. One Caribbean? Nothing need to be said on that aside from the fact that they are always getting into regulatory troubles.

So we might really need a scaled down and highly transformed LIAT, ultimately shifting away from its ATRs which are too large (at least the ATR 76). They offered services from GEO all the way to SJU. People are already asking how such type of travel can be accommodated with 4 airlines tearing each other down for the few passengers traveling to BGI from GND, SVD, SLU and DOM. What about those who want to travel north? BGI to SKB, SVD to EIS, or SLU to ANU. According to statements out of SKB it is "take a charter or swim".
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:59 am

caribny wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
LimaFoxTango wrote:
It is almost certain now that the Antigua-based regional carrier, LIAT, will return to the skies, perhaps as early as next month.

This is the latest update from Cabinet spokesman, Minister of Information, Melford Nicholas, who said the positive news was passed on to the Cabinet by Prime Minister Gaston Browne.

https://antiguanewsroom.com/liat-could- ... -nicholas/

Still too early to tell of this is going to be successful.

I’ll believe it when I see it. He gave that statement with absolutely zero details on how LI would be able to restart. No information on when bookings would reopen, how many planes would remain, what destinations/schedule would be served, how staff would be brought back. That statement was complete wind pie in my mind.




We all piled on LI in times past but it really doesnt look as if the current arrangement is working, with several airlines battling each other for market share of a dwindling number of passengers. T&T, the largest source of regional travel, isnt opening in the near term.

BW is now in serious trouble with the pandemic lasting longer than anticipated, and with T&T remaining closed. No one wants to speak on this, but do we really know what Inter Caribbean's financial position is? Unlike BW they have no other back stop if they get into serious trouble. Take a look at TripAdvisor and this is a ONE star airline. NOT reassuring! WORSE than LI in its worst days! WM is also challenged and cannot fill the gap. Air Antilles will always be a bit player. One Caribbean? Nothing need to be said on that aside from the fact that they are always getting into regulatory troubles.

So we might really need a scaled down and highly transformed LIAT, ultimately shifting away from its ATRs which are too large (at least the ATR 76). They offered services from GEO all the way to SJU. People are already asking how such type of travel can be accommodated with 4 airlines tearing each other down for the few passengers traveling to BGI from GND, SVD, SLU and DOM. What about those who want to travel north? BGI to SKB, SVD to EIS, or SLU to ANU. According to statements out of SKB it is "take a charter or swim".

I’m past the point of whether LI returning is necessary or not. Here, I’m saying I have absolutely no faith in anything coming from the government unless there are firm details in place: restart date, schedules, bookings restarted, etc.

Regarding a new fleet, it’s not happening. LI does not have the money to get a new fleet and then re-train its pilots to fly it.

Regarding finances, yes it is possible that Inter is in a bad way financially. However, we know for a fact (no need to wonder) that LI is. And in terms of backing, LI is currently in an equally precarious situation. The GoAB does not have the ability at this time to continue to keep LI afloat and no help is going to be coming from anywhere else now that BGI and SVD are no longer shareholders. If BW, who is getting some revenue from flight ops and has wealthier government support is in such a precarious situation, what to make of LI that hasn’t gotten any flight ops revenue in months and is backed by a much more leveraged and cash strapped government?
 
caribny
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:29 pm

BW is going to stay in their own corner and continue with their POS focused operations, which will also benefit GEO/OGL which lies to the south. They aren't going to get into the intricacies of travel among the OECS, BGI, and the Virgin Islands/SXM. They have already dropped SLU, and we will see how long DOM lasts. They arent going to fill the LI gap. I am not even sure if they will keep their KIN service, other than to JFK and the Eastern Caribbean, now that the majors are back in full force.

One thing for sure is that when LI had 2-3 flights daily from GND to BGI a good % were continuing to points beyond, not something that any of the current carriers can provide, so this limits the viability of an already thin route.

So it appears as if the OECS will fall apart with no reliable airlift connecting each island. Hell the president of the ECCB, who is from GND, but living in SKB, cannot even fly home, unless he charters a plane! Travel between the OECS Secretariat and other OECS nations is similarly challenged. People who used to cuss LIAT will now miss it. So folks can say what they want but either a new version of LIAT will have to be built, or Caribbean people will learn to swim. Its not only ANU which will feel the pinch.
 
baje427
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:52 pm

It will be interesting to see how long the T&T borders will remain closed if it continues into 2021 I cant see BW surviving. On another note AA restarted flights to BGI last week from MIA.

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