caribny wrote:

AEROFAN wrote:

ryby92 wrote:

Caribbean 484 - it's useless trying to use reason and logic as clearly only the blue lens is working. It is obvious the FLL has underperformed for B6 whether some will admit it or not. If B6 has such a cost advantage why then is it that they have performed so poorly in FLL to the extent that they have to cut back. A handful of people going to shop is hardly enough to fill up the plane. and unlike NY the population of Barbadians and Trinis in So FL is too tiny to rely on O&D traffic. I give them full credit wrt NY.

But let's wait for the A220 to show up.

By same token, AA which was the incumbent and entrenched in the JFKBGI, market should not have been run out of that market. Yet B6 did run them out. And during some seasonal times, that market can have up to 4 flights per day.
Given enough time, FLL ops will be just as profitable. For the last two years I have taken B6 to BGI from the DC area using FLL as the connecting point. I just wish B6 would stick to a proper time...

AA made a decision to reduce its JFK Caribbean flights and BGI was part of this. B6 is way more established amongst the NY areas travelers to the Caribbean than they are out of SoFL.

AA got run out of the JFK Caribbean market pretty much. They tucked tail and ran from JFKBGI after being on the route for well over 20 years.

ryby92 wrote:

484 Correct. Prior to AA removing the BGI flight B6 only managed 1 A320 flight a day. Only after AA stopped did they increase it to two. Had AA remained on the route they probably will still be at one flight a day. And while they are strong to NY clearly they were no match to SoFl, though some seem to have a very hard time accepting that fact.

if you look at the bigger picture B6 is essentially just a NY and lesser extent Boston airline with respect to BGI. Hard for them to command a corporate traveler from who must travel on a global basis.

AA clearly made a decision to pull out of every JFK route where B6 was the competitor. The only exception was the higher yielding ANU route. BGI was quite low yielding and so was part of the overall pull down.

They have recently restarted JFK MBJ. I suspect because they sell a lot of their packages, given that this is a mass market all inclusive destination which lends itself to that, so while they mightn't earn on the seat they do from the package. I doubt that AA is going back to JFK KIN or JFK POS. We will see how long they last on the JFK GEO once B6 joins the pack in a few months.

It isn't that B6 drove AA away. Its that AA just didn't want to be there on the JFK BGI, just as they didn't into PR and DR, both the largest markets out of the NY area. Fares on the JFK BGI was significantly lower than on the JFK ANU.

Btw AA is filling its seats on the JFK GEO through sales via Travelspan. Given their reputation I wonder how long AA will tolerate them.

A Magnitude 7.7 earthquake struck beneath the Caribbean between Cuba & Jamaica on Tuesday, 28 January. How did this earthquake & any of its aftershocks affect flight ops in the region?

$1.2B for new, modern Tobago airport

A total of $1.2 billion will be spent on the construction of a new airport terminal in Tobago, along with an upgrade of existing facilities and the acquisition of land in Crown Point to complete the expansion.

At the contract signing ceremony for the ANR Robinson International Airport Expansion Project on Tuesday, Finance Minister Colm Imbert gave a broad breakdown of the costs involved.

He revealed that TT$36 million would be spent to upgrade the existing airport terminal while the new terminal would cost TT$870 million. Some $300 million has been allocated by Government for the acquisition of 53 acres of land between Store Bay Local Road and the airport perimeter fence in the Bon Accord area.

The project, which was awarded to China Railway Construction Caribbean Ltd, is expected to take a year to be completed - four months for design and 20 months for construction.

Imbert said China Railway’s bid was the only compliant bid at the end of the tendering process. He said Government is satisfied it is getting value for money as the bid was in line with the engineers’ estimated construction cost.

Regarding the land acquisition process, the Finance Minister said ACQ and Associates is negotiating and settling with tenants on behalf of the State. He assured that residents will be compensated “in a timely manner”.

The airport expansion project will include the development of a new terminal building with associated airside and landside infrastructure.

The operations of the existing building will be maintained during this period to avoid any disruption to the services currently being provided.

Imbert assured that this would mean an improvement in the current quality of service provided.

Meanwhile, Tobago House of Assembly Chief Secretary Kelvin Charles said the new terminal building was a critical and transformational piece, “indispensable” in revitalising tourism in Tobago.

Stressing the importance of the expansion works, Charles said visitors to the island must be captivated by the island’s natural beauty, as well as the quality of the available facilities and systems.

He said the facility will be the island’s “runway of opportunity and the gateway connecting us and the rest of the region”.

“The expansion of the ANR Robinson International Airport will also have a positive effect on domestic travel between Trinidad and Tobago. Our airbridge is a lifeline for so many of our citizens.

Frequently utilised on weekends by Tobago students pursuing studies in Trinidad as well as those conducting business between both islands on a regular basis and occasionally by citizens who work away from home.

Noting additional benefits in the possibility of increased airlift, he said it was important that comfort and convenience is improved for commercial passengers.

The Chief Secretary said the project was also of immense value to the people of Tobago as it would provide jobs and a new access road.

When the new terminal is completed, the existing terminal will be used as a cargo facility and private jet terminal.

Several improvements are expected, among them, a state-of-the-art passenger terminal that will ensure that international passengers no longer have to walk in the rain as a passenger bridge with a covered area will be installed.

The first phase of development on the project will see the terminal equipped with a capacity to serve a minimum of three million passengers.

The new terminal building will boast more floor space for concessions including retail, duty-free, food and beverage.

Passengers can also expect improved car parking, improved drop-off and pick up areas.

An expanded and refurbished domestic arrivals and departure area, fully enclosed and air-conditioned security line area, a VIP diplomatic lounge, and additional baggage equipment will also be included in the new terminal.

The terminal will be able to accommodate five wide-bodied aircraft (AA 330, Boeing 747 and ATRs) at the same time.

And, when completed, the new facility will be able to boast of leadership in energy and environmental design.

The Finance Minister noted that the upgrades were urgently needed as it was “a long time” since significant works had been carried out at the airport.

http://www.looptt.com/content/12b-new-m ... go-airport

I'm looking forward to seeing what this new terminal will do for TAB and Tobago at large. Will it be a white elephant project? The airport has been in need of an upgrade though.

Any news on the 738 replacements for BW?

I know it has been discussed before but Caribbean-Africa is it closer to becoming a reality? Since Airbus introduced us to the Airbus A321 XLR POS-DSS/ACC would be doable. Still too much capacity in terms of seats. However these narrow body long range aircraft could be a great fit.

I say ACC because it is pretty well connected with the rest of Africa and the Middle East, English ties and growing economy. Whereas DSS is within reasonable distance at a 6hr + flight time and it too has decent connections throughout the continent and the Middle East. POS could position itself as a transit hub for flights to the Americas.

It is pretty far fetched and not feasible right now but given a few years.

I don't think a flight from the Caribbean to the African continent is really feasible in the foreseeable future at all. There has to develop meaningful, high value economic ties. Today there are virtually none, not even large numbers of persons from that part of the world living in the Caribbean. There are definitely a handful of Caribbean people working but they are spread out over a vast, vast continent that is better connected with London or Paris than it is with itself.

Following VS's decision to axe its thrice-weekly LGW-UVF service after 7 June 2020, BA will add two weekly flights on this route from 28 October 2020 to 27 March 2021. Like the current daily flights these additional flights will be operated with the 772 but with some differences: there will be three cabins (so no First cabin), the number of seats will be 336 (current 236) and the flights will be terminators (current ones have tags to POS 5x/weekly and GND 2x/weekly).

Caymanair wrote:

I don't think a flight from the Caribbean to the African continent is really feasible in the foreseeable future at all. There has to develop meaningful, high value economic ties. Today there are virtually none, not even large numbers of persons from that part of the world living in the Caribbean. There are definitely a handful of Caribbean people working but they are spread out over a vast, vast continent that is better connected with London or Paris than it is with itself.

The biggest challenge is that there aren't any Caribbean or West African carriers with aircraft capable of handling that route. I doubt that ET has an incentive to extend its West African flights to the Caribbean when extension to the USA are more lucrative. While a West African population does exist, some estimate it to be as much as 10k, these are distributed across the Caribbean and come from several West African countries. Its also likely that when they return on trips to their homeland many might actually like stopping off in NYC or London to shop.

gunnerman wrote:

Following VS's decision to axe its thrice-weekly LGW-UVF service after 7 June 2020, BA will add two weekly flights on this route from 28 October 2020 to 27 March 2021. Like the current daily flights these additional flights will be operated with the 772 but with some differences: there will be three cabins (so no First cabin), the number of seats will be 336 (current 236) and the flights will be terminators (current ones have tags to POS 5x/weekly and GND 2x/weekly).

Still surprised VS is going through with this. Bumping it to a seasonal service may have sufficed.
Was UVF, and perhaps its Caribbean network given the leisure orientation, unprofitable?
Makes me wonder what other islands are subsidising their service.

caribny wrote:

Caymanair wrote:

I don't think a flight from the Caribbean to the African continent is really feasible in the foreseeable future at all. There has to develop meaningful, high value economic ties. Today there are virtually none, not even large numbers of persons from that part of the world living in the Caribbean. There are definitely a handful of Caribbean people working but they are spread out over a vast, vast continent that is better connected with London or Paris than it is with itself.

The biggest challenge is that there aren't any Caribbean or West African carriers with aircraft capable of handling that route. I doubt that ET has an incentive to extend its West African flights to the Caribbean when extension to the USA are more lucrative. While a West African population does exist, some estimate it to be as much as 10k, these are distributed across the Caribbean and come from several West African countries. Its also likely that when they return on trips to their homeland many might actually like stopping off in NYC or London to shop.

That isn't the biggest challenge. It's true that there aren't any airlines that are well-placed to provide the service, but more importantly there is nowhere in the Caribbean with a market to justify the service. There are 5,000 Filipinos living in Cayman who go home every year, plus perhaps (in the most optimistic scenario) another 1500 of Filipino descent, who are married to Filipinos, or who own property and conduct business between the GCM - MNL city pair. That is not even close to the number needed to make a long-haul to Manila viable even if it could be flown by a A321XLR or 737MAX and was 8,000km closer. I'd wager there isn't a single city pair between the Caribbean and the African continent that has the demand to support a service, even if there was a network carrier in West Africa or the Caribbean that could feed the service from dozens of cities.

We will sooner have non-stop service to China, Hong Kong, or Singapore. There is significantly greater travel between the Caribbean and these locations and significant and increasing business ties. And I'm not saying those types of flights are likely,,, quite the opposite when we can make the trip flexibly and at a reasonable cost with a single connection in London or New York.

Caymanair wrote:

caribny wrote:

Caymanair wrote:

I don't think a flight from the Caribbean to the African continent is really feasible in the foreseeable future at all. There has to develop meaningful, high value economic ties. Today there are virtually none, not even large numbers of persons from that part of the world living in the Caribbean. There are definitely a handful of Caribbean people working but they are spread out over a vast, vast continent that is better connected with London or Paris than it is with itself.

The biggest challenge is that there aren't any Caribbean or West African carriers with aircraft capable of handling that route. I doubt that ET has an incentive to extend its West African flights to the Caribbean when extension to the USA are more lucrative. While a West African population does exist, some estimate it to be as much as 10k, these are distributed across the Caribbean and come from several West African countries. Its also likely that when they return on trips to their homeland many might actually like stopping off in NYC or London to shop.

That isn't the biggest challenge. It's true that there aren't any airlines that are well-placed to provide the service, but more importantly there is nowhere in the Caribbean with a market to justify the service. There are 5,000 Filipinos living in Cayman who go home every year, plus perhaps (in the most optimistic scenario) another 1500 of Filipino descent, who are married to Filipinos, or who own property and conduct business between the GCM - MNL city pair. That is not even close to the number needed to make a long-haul to Manila viable even if it could be flown by a A321XLR or 737MAX and was 8,000km closer. I'd wager there isn't a single city pair between the Caribbean and the African continent that has the demand to support a service, even if there was a network carrier in West Africa or the Caribbean that could feed the service from dozens of cities.

Just for reference:
Shortest, more realistic potential Africa - Caribbean airport pairs distances (from http://www.gcmap.com)
French-speaking:
DKR CAY 071° (E) 090° (E) 2,470 mi
DKR FDF 276° (W) 282° (W) 2,908 mi
English speaking / commonwealth:
BJL GEO 077° (E) 094° (E) 2,870 mi
BJL BGI 275° (W) 282° (W) 2,882 mi
If it was up to distance, one could imagine TX flying to Africa one day.

We will sooner have non-stop service to China, Hong Kong, or Singapore. There is significantly greater travel between the Caribbean and these locations and significant and increasing business ties. And I'm not saying those types of flights are likely,,, quite the opposite when we can make the trip flexibly and at a reasonable cost with a single connection in London or New York.

IMHO, The best bet for a number of Caribbean airports to get easy connection to Asia, Middle East and Eastern Europe would be trying to get an IST TK flight.

Caymanair wrote:

caribny wrote:

Caymanair wrote:

I don't think a flight from the Caribbean to the African continent is really feasible in the foreseeable future at all. There has to develop meaningful, high value economic ties. Today there are virtually none, not even large numbers of persons from that part of the world living in the Caribbean. There are definitely a handful of Caribbean people working but they are spread out over a vast, vast continent that is better connected with London or Paris than it is with itself.

The biggest challenge is that there aren't any Caribbean or West African carriers with aircraft capable of handling that route. I doubt that ET has an incentive to extend its West African flights to the Caribbean when extension to the USA are more lucrative. While a West African population does exist, some estimate it to be as much as 10k, these are distributed across the Caribbean and come from several West African countries. Its also likely that when they return on trips to their homeland many might actually like stopping off in NYC or London to shop.

That isn't the biggest challenge. It's true that there aren't any airlines that are well-placed to provide the service, but more importantly there is nowhere in the Caribbean with a market to justify the service. There are 5,000 Filipinos living in Cayman who go home every year, plus perhaps (in the most optimistic scenario) another 1500 of Filipino descent, who are married to Filipinos, or who own property and conduct business between the GCM - MNL city pair. That is not even close to the number needed to make a long-haul to Manila viable even if it could be flown by a A321XLR or 737MAX and was 8,000km closer. I'd wager there isn't a single city pair between the Caribbean and the African continent that has the demand to support a service, even if there was a network carrier in West Africa or the Caribbean that could feed the service from dozens of cities.

We will sooner have non-stop service to China, Hong Kong, or Singapore. There is significantly greater travel between the Caribbean and these locations and significant and increasing business ties. And I'm not saying those types of flights are likely,,, quite the opposite when we can make the trip flexibly and at a reasonable cost with a single connection in London or New York.

If BW still had its 767s a political decision could have been made to start service. This cannot happen as there are no planes to fly, so that is where the challenge lies. There has actually been talk of this route now for decades. Even recently Mia Motley was "wishing" for better service to Ghana from BGI. The only routes with the remotest chance of being sustainable (on a semi charter basis) will be to ACC or LOS so the BJL and DSS routes are off the mark. Given the paucity of intra West Africa connectivity this would have to be an O&D, so its a full transatlantic flight, and not equivalent to a flight to YYZ.

But like I stated this is moot because even the Africans will prefer travel via JFK/LON to shop on the way back home.

caribny wrote:

Caymanair wrote:

caribny wrote:

The biggest challenge is that there aren't any Caribbean or West African carriers with aircraft capable of handling that route. I doubt that ET has an incentive to extend its West African flights to the Caribbean when extension to the USA are more lucrative. While a West African population does exist, some estimate it to be as much as 10k, these are distributed across the Caribbean and come from several West African countries. Its also likely that when they return on trips to their homeland many might actually like stopping off in NYC or London to shop.

That isn't the biggest challenge. It's true that there aren't any airlines that are well-placed to provide the service, but more importantly there is nowhere in the Caribbean with a market to justify the service. There are 5,000 Filipinos living in Cayman who go home every year, plus perhaps (in the most optimistic scenario) another 1500 of Filipino descent, who are married to Filipinos, or who own property and conduct business between the GCM - MNL city pair. That is not even close to the number needed to make a long-haul to Manila viable even if it could be flown by a A321XLR or 737MAX and was 8,000km closer. I'd wager there isn't a single city pair between the Caribbean and the African continent that has the demand to support a service, even if there was a network carrier in West Africa or the Caribbean that could feed the service from dozens of cities.

We will sooner have non-stop service to China, Hong Kong, or Singapore. There is significantly greater travel between the Caribbean and these locations and significant and increasing business ties. And I'm not saying those types of flights are likely,,, quite the opposite when we can make the trip flexibly and at a reasonable cost with a single connection in London or New York.

If BW still had its 767s a political decision could have been made to start service. This cannot happen as there are no planes to fly, so that is where the challenge lies. There has actually been talk of this route now for decades. Even recently Mia Motley was "wishing" for better service to Ghana from BGI. The only routes with the remotest chance of being sustainable (on a semi charter basis) will be to ACC or LOS so the BJL and DSS routes are off the mark. Given the paucity of intra West Africa connectivity this would have to be an O&D, so its a full transatlantic flight, and not equivalent to a flight to YYZ.

But like I stated this is moot because even the Africans will prefer travel via JFK/LON to shop on the way back home.

I doubt even if BW had its 767s, this would have ever happened. BW couldn’t sustain London and the government can barely subsidize the Tobago air bridge, much less a transatlantic route to a low demand city in Africa. The other issue is with T&T politics the way it is, a new flight to Africa would have likely necessitated a flight to India as well and that surely would have been an equally large if not larger failure as well.

Re TK starting flights to the English speaking Caribbean, good luck on that. Again, some of the islands can barely maintain service to London (a much bigger local market and also one that provides connections to the exact same places that people transiting via a potential IST flight would be going). Again, anything is possible but this is highly implausible.

We get this sort of thing from time to time from a politician or airline manager about flights from some unrealistic place. This is when you immediately know that these people are wholly unqualified to talk about these matters.

People tend to forget there is already a scheduled nonstop flight from Africa to the Caribbean. TAAG flies from Angola to Havana, Cuba using the 77W/772. Politics are most likely involved too but I understand there is also quite some medical traffic between these two countries (medical students).

Other than this, I agree with everybody else. I don't see any other Africa-Caribbean flights.

A388

gunnerman wrote:

We get this sort of thing from time to time from a politician or airline manager about flights from some unrealistic place. This is when you immediately know that these people are wholly unqualified to talk about these matters.

Exactly. However politicians do make political decisions. Recall BWIA's flights to SJO. Why? Because T&T wanted to be the HQ for the Americas free trade zone. They had the planes so BW flew these 80% empty. African routes cannot happen because they dont have the planes so no political fantasies.

A388 wrote:

People tend to forget there is already a scheduled nonstop flight from Africa to the Caribbean. TAAG flies from Angola to Havana, Cuba using the 77W/772. Politics are most likely involved too but I understand there is also quite some medical traffic between these two countries (medical students).

Other than this, I agree with everybody else. I don't see any other Africa-Caribbean flights.

DT flies bi-weekly LAD-HAV, that route is a remanent of the time when Cuba and Angola relations were at their peak. Politics are involved but the demand for a link between the 2 countries still exists. Thousands of Angolans study on Cuba and there's a sizeable number of Cubans living in Angola.

Brickell305 wrote:

Re TK starting flights to the English speaking Caribbean, good luck on that. Again, some of the islands can barely maintain service to London (a much bigger local market and also one that provides connections to the exact same places that people transiting via a potential IST flight would be going). Again, anything is possible but this is highly implausible.

In the past, several English-speaking Caribbean islands have sustained flights to destinations in Europe other than in the U.K. KL to POS and LH to Jamaica, and, In their glory-days both Air Jamaica and BWIA also did fly to mainland Europe.
Time will tell if MBJ, POS and BGI (plus PUJ and CUR/AUA) are destinations in TK radar.
IMHO, it shouldn't come as a surprise if MBJ and BGI already have talked to TK.

2travel2know2 wrote:

e other than in the U.K. KL to POS and LH to Jamaica, and, In their glory-days both Air Jamaica and BWIA also did fly to mainland Europe.
Time will tell if MBJ, POS and BGI (plus PUJ and CUR/AUA) are destinations in TK radar.
IMHO, it shouldn't come as a surprise if MBJ and BGI already have talked to TK.

Both MBJ and BGI currently have quite a bit of airlift out of a variety of German cities with Jamaica also getting flights from Italy, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, Russia and even Portugal. These are all seasonal services tied to the wholesalers.

Another "wish" that some Caribbean destinations had was attracting business from China. Air China already services HAV and I believe that Jamaica is trying to develop a multi destination package. China tourism is highly structured. I personally dont see how this will be possible, given intense competition from islands in the Pacific and Indian Oceans. I think that TK flying to MBJ or BGI is as likely as BW starting service to ACC or LOS.

caribny wrote:

2travel2know2 wrote:

e other than in the U.K. KL to POS and LH to Jamaica, and, In their glory-days both Air Jamaica and BWIA also did fly to mainland Europe.
Time will tell if MBJ, POS and BGI (plus PUJ and CUR/AUA) are destinations in TK radar.
IMHO, it shouldn't come as a surprise if MBJ and BGI already have talked to TK.

Both MBJ and BGI currently have quite a bit of airlift out of a variety of German cities with Jamaica also getting flights from Italy, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, Russia and even Portugal. These are all seasonal services tied to the wholesalers.

While not regular service and most likely those flights don't sell seats locally, there are Caribbean destinations attracting air-lift (tourists) from newer markets.

Another "wish" that some Caribbean destinations had was attracting business from China. Air China already services HAV and I believe that Jamaica is trying to develop a multi destination package. China tourism is highly structured. I personally dont see how this will be possible, given intense competition from islands in the Pacific and Indian Oceans.

Chinese tourism to The Caribbean would be a really tough challenge, the region has the distance from China against it and right now it's not the time

I think that TK flying to MBJ or BGI is as likely as BW starting service to ACC or LOS.

For the record:
IST DPS 099° (E) 093° (E) 6,431 mi
IST MBJ 295° (NW) 289° (W) 6,208 mi
(from http://www.gcmap.com)
Wholesalers, Are those the same ones sending European tourists to MBJ, BGI, PUJ?, have a lot to do with getting TK to fly daily IST-DPS non-stop.
Not that I believe TK will fly daily to MBJ and/or PUJ, that I don't even dream about. it, however I do suspect, than sooner or later, Jamaica (Tourist Authorities and providers + MBJ), European Tour Operators/Wholesalers and TK will get their act together.

The issue with Euro tourism to the Caribbean is that the operations are highly vertically integrated. Not sure that TK can make money on what will be low yield volume driven routes. There is also more traffic heading East via IST than there will be traffic generated in the East flying to the Caribbean so your DPS comparison isnt valid. More Euros travel to DPS than Asians travel to the Caribbean.

caribny wrote:

ryby92 wrote:

484 Correct. Prior to AA removing the BGI flight B6 only managed 1 A320 flight a day. Only after AA stopped did they increase it to two. Had AA remained on the route they probably will still be at one flight a day. And while they are strong to NY clearly they were no match to SoFl, though some seem to have a very hard time accepting that fact.

if you look at the bigger picture B6 is essentially just a NY and lesser extent Boston airline with respect to BGI. Hard for them to command a corporate traveler from who must travel on a global basis.

AA clearly made a decision to pull out of every JFK route where B6 was the competitor. The only exception was the higher yielding ANU route. BGI was quite low yielding and so was part of the overall pull down.

They have recently restarted JFK MBJ. I suspect because they sell a lot of their packages, given that this is a mass market all inclusive destination which lends itself to that, so while they mightn't earn on the seat they do from the package. I doubt that AA is going back to JFK KIN or JFK POS. We will see how long they last on the JFK GEO once B6 joins the pack in a few months.

It isn't that B6 drove AA away. Its that AA just didn't want to be there on the JFK BGI, just as they didn't into PR and DR, both the largest markets out of the NY area. Fares on the JFK BGI was significantly lower than on the JFK ANU.

From what I hear of the JFK-MBJ restart, the route's reinstating comes as a result of 3 factors. The first being AA's recognition of Europe - USA pax feeding through their JFK hub being high enough to feed probable JFK-MBJ traffic.

Second, AA's renewed push into JFK - with this swath of new investments into JFK T8 plus the Alaska/AA tie-up - proves to be fertile ground to aptly compete with the likes of DL & B6 into same. As you probably know, MBJ enjoys insane connectivity to JFK with DL & B6 pushing 6 daily flights alone. Lastly, organic demand from the diaspora was IMO the tipping point (Jamaicans have a love affair with American Airlines).

Other points in this right include Knutsford Express's direct bus service for pax from KIN (which is already well served to JFK) from the heart of Kingston's Central Business District right to MBJ's departures. This is a very well-subscribed service. During peak periods, Knutsford Express runs an hourly service to MBJ, all packed to the gills. JFK demand from Jamaica is almost inexhaustive, to me at least.

Another point to note, especially for Business traffic from Jamaica, is that they almost exclusively use AA. This is thanks to a tie-up with Scotiabank's Business Credit Card products offering exclusivity to AAdvantage. I know a few companies locally that only book Oneworld only for their C-Suite's travel obligations. This is part of the reason why Jamaica - MIA does so well perennially. To illustrate, AA runs an early AM run to Miami from Montego Bay which departs at around 1330 GMT. Jetblue, from early November to Christmas Day, ran an early AM run to Fort Lauderdale which departed at 1100 GMT during DST, 1200 GMT post-DST and 1300 GMT from late November to December 25. Both flights were RONs after arriving between 0300 GMT - 0500 GMT (highly uncommon for MBJ). While loads on both flights were not very high, AA managed to (and continues to) keep that route going, regardless of seasonality. JetBlue on the other hand, using an E190, was not able to sustain the route for very long despite an appetite for the service (even I flew the route!). If Jetblue is serious about growth in Jamaica, it will have to deepen links with the business community, preferably through a co-branded card with a large bank (like the National Commercial Bank) or CIBC (which is a favorite for the Tourism/Hospitality and Construction Industry) or smaller, newer ones like JMMB or Jamaica National AND retimed connections for regional links; especially to DR, TT, BB, and LC from South Florida. Jetblue will also have to think about offering a resized Mint offering on shorter hops like Jamaica - So. Fl.

MBJ is leisure with some VFR. KIN is VFR and business. So if one wants to determine loyalty of Jamaicans to a particular carrier its best to look at KIN. The majority of travel into MBJ is that of non Jamaicans.

AA runs 3 daily into KIN, all from MIA. B6 is running 5 daily from JFK and FLL, including 2 A321s. This based on Expedia. Whereas during the peak summer AA adds only 1 flight on the MIA KIN B6 adds several more out of JFK/FLL. On that basis I will suggest that B6 is the more popular carrier among Jamaicans, the largest travel component being the VFR segment.

If AA was targeting Jamaicans on the JFK route they would have either add to both KIN and MBJ, or to KIN alone. The AA JFK flights leaves early, at 7AM, way before any European connections.

I dont know that B6 especially targets business travelers on its Caribbean routes, so its best to leave those who are attracted to robust FF programs to AA. I dont know that most Jamaicans are, as they are mainly VFR (both directions), aside from those headed to MIA.

I have no doubt that AA is more popular with the business community based in Jamaica but I doubt that the re-entry of the JFK service had anything to do with them.

caribny wrote:

MBJ is leisure with some VFR. KIN is VFR and business. So if one wants to determine loyalty of Jamaicans to a particular carrier its best to look at KIN. The majority of travel into MBJ is that of non Jamaicans.

AA runs 3 daily into KIN, all from MIA. B6 is running 5 daily from JFK and FLL, including 2 A321s. This based on Expedia. Whereas during the peak summer AA adds only 1 flight on the MIA KIN B6 adds several more out of JFK/FLL. On that basis I will suggest that B6 is the more popular carrier among Jamaicans, the largest travel component being the VFR segment.

If AA was targeting Jamaicans on the JFK route they would have either add to both KIN and MBJ, or to KIN alone. The AA JFK flights leaves early, at 7AM, way before any European connections.

I dont know that B6 especially targets business travelers on its Caribbean routes, so its best to leave those who are attracted to robust FF programs to AA. I dont know that most Jamaicans are, as they are mainly VFR (both directions), aside from those headed to MIA.

I have no doubt that AA is more popular with the business community based in Jamaica but I doubt that the re-entry of the JFK service had anything to do with them.

I agree with MBJ being mostly VFR with Leisure. I do think that we're undervaluing the connectedness & optionality of the traveling public in Jamaica - between KIN & MBJ. KIN has now become more mixed in its traffic composition, with VFR, Business & Leisure pax flying into Kingston more thanks to the rise of Airbnbs and other unique experiences better reached from KIN than MBJ. This has been affecting the increasing LFs on BA into KIN and there are rumblings of leisure operators flirting with the idea of servicing KIN, because of its increasing popularity.

Additionally, demand from Kingston is overwhelmingly ad-hoc (aside from VFR traffic). Larger corporates based/with large offices in Kingston like Digicel, Cable & Wireless/Liberty Latin America, Scotiabank etc. use AA's link to MIA in the same manner you would see those in Government use Acela's DC - NYC route. These companies usually schedule in short notice & are perhaps the only draw for American needing to service KIN that many times per day; to provide adequate Business Class capacity. Having flown the KIN-MIA route on numerous occasions, while Business may be pretty much full, the rest of the aircraft (especially on the early AM run is largely empty). A quick look at tomorrow AM's Jamaica-MIA runs show MBJ-MIA (in Business) booked solid, and waning availability on the KIN-MIA sector. There is already more-than-adequate capacity on KIN/MBJ-MIA to make it absorptive enough to additional capacity demands. I do also anticipate AA taking up KIN-JFK very soon, with Delta having joined the fold very recently. It will be (almost purely) VFR, however.

(Other corporates do use other airlines, most often being Jetblue's early AM FLL service out of KIN. Quite a few smaller banks, manufacturing, shipping, and other industry players fly Jetblue. This will only grow as industry expands due to the boom period in the J'can economy)

On the point of AA's JFK imperatives, I do see where skepticism is necessary for evaluating same. However, it is equally important to note the route's history. JFK-MBJ-JFK has always been a product of JM & AA since a taller time. AA's 1190/1193 made the early morning treck down using everything from DC10s, A300s, B752s & B767s since the early 70s. It, however, had been in lockstep with Air Jamaica's scheduling which was (and is to this day under CAL) scheduled to depart at around 7 AM. Jetblue, when they only flew flight 779 in 2009, also followed that departure time. I may not be at liberty to disclose my exact reasoning but I can re-iterate that the scheduling "inertia" so-called (and even brand loyalty) has been critical in winning over VFR traffic to AA and been a key strategy for most other players. Most players into MBJ schedule like JM used to; see AA's former LAX-MBJ service, UA's IAH-MBJ-IAH service and even AA's shuttle between MIA-MBJ/KIN-MIA.

The VFR market at the NY end is more B6 oriented than AA oriented. Caribbean people not only travel back home but there is also heavy VFR travel to FL. Most of this is in areas best served by B6. AA is more a connecting carrier. and NY enjoys massive nonstop service. I am not sure that the VFR market will switch to AA from B6, given that it services two markets of interest to the VFR segment.

I do agree with you that AA will appeal more to the business traveler.

Air Demerara files Letter of Intent in Guyana.

https://guyanachronicle.com/2020/02/23/ ... al-service

A Guyana-based airline won't fly to the US until the Guyana Civil Aviation Authority gets cat 1 status.

Another year and someone else wants to start a Guyanese airline. With the JFK/MIA routes being well served what is the rationale for this. Yields are likely to tumble once B6 enters the JFK GEO route. Guyanese are also leery of these carriers given their bad track record. The regional markets are fairly thin and already well served by BW and LI.

Even assuming that GY gets its Cat 1 back (they claim that this is likely) I really ask why? The time has ast for every little country to have its own airline. AV swallowed up the Central American carriers. AV and LATAM dominate South America, and these are larger markets than is Guyana. DR doesnt have their own carrier (aside from 2 small ones with regional routes) and neither do Jamaica or Barbados, both with larger markets as well.

2 years from now we aren't even going to remember this application.

caribny wrote:

Another year and someone else wants to start a Guyanese airline. With the JFK/MIA routes being well served what is the rationale for this. Yields are likely to tumble once B6 enters the JFK GEO route. Guyanese are also leery of these carriers given their bad track record. The regional markets are fairly thin and already well served by BW and LI.

Does BW or LI flies between Guyana and Venezuela (PZO)/PBM/CAY/MAO/BEL?
Is there a demand for those routes?

Even assuming that GY gets its Cat 1 back (they claim that this is likely) I really ask why? The time has ast for every little country to have its own airline. AV swallowed up the Central American carriers. AV and LATAM dominate South America, and these are larger markets than is Guyana. DR doesnt have their own carrier (aside from 2 small ones with regional routes) and neither do Jamaica or Barbados, both with larger markets as well.

Guyana should look at Jamaica and Dominican Republic having only small regional carriers. If there are markets where a Guyanese regional airline would make money, then it's good idea of a new Guyanese (regional) airlines.
IMHO, neither AV nor LATAM would be interested in BW, probably one of the best ways to lift BW might be becoming an Star Alliance Connecting Partner and offer connections and code-share flights with Star Alliance airlines wherever airports BW and those coincide.

2travel2know2 wrote:

caribny wrote:

Another year and someone else wants to start a Guyanese airline. With the JFK/MIA routes being well served what is the rationale for this. Yields are likely to tumble once B6 enters the JFK GEO route. Guyanese are also leery of these carriers given their bad track record. The regional markets are fairly thin and already well served by BW and LI.

Does BW or LI flies between Guyana and Venezuela (PZO)/PBM/CAY/MAO/BEL?
Is there a demand for those routes?

Even assuming that GY gets its Cat 1 back (they claim that this is likely) I really ask why? The time has ast for every little country to have its own airline. AV swallowed up the Central American carriers. AV and LATAM dominate South America, and these are larger markets than is Guyana. DR doesnt have their own carrier (aside from 2 small ones with regional routes) and neither do Jamaica or Barbados, both with larger markets as well.

Guyana should look at Jamaica and Dominican Republic having only small regional carriers. If there are markets where a Guyanese regional airline would make money, then it's good idea of a new Guyanese (regional) airlines.
IMHO, neither AV nor LATAM would be interested in BW, probably one of the best ways to lift BW might be becoming an Star Alliance Connecting Partner and offer connections and code-share flights with Star Alliance airlines wherever airports BW and those coincide.

There are already flights on regional carriers between the urban airports of Suriname and GY. PZO might be interesting given that a Guyanese population lives there (or at least used to). The other routes cannot support an Airbus level operation.

BW has decided to build regional routes. I dont think that there are any plans to start new routes to North America. The T&T economy is now under stress so they cannot pursue risky routes. BW isnt a tourist focused carrier and will never be. Not sure why they will get into an Alliance when the Caribbean is an open sky region with all who desire to fly there already doing so.

Inter Caribbean Airways applies to Guyana Government for permission to operate here.

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2020/03/02 ... rate-here/

Status of Cat 1.

https://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/2020 ... ust-apply/

GUYAIR707 wrote:

Inter Caribbean Airways applies to Guyana Government for permission to operate here.

https://www.stabroeknews.com/2020/03/02 ... rate-here/

Status of Cat 1.

https://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/2020 ... ust-apply/

I assume for the SDQ GEO sector, which is currently quite small, but might grow with improved connectivity.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1442531

BW FLL-MBJ JUL 0>1.0[0] AUG 0>1.0[0] SEP 0>0.2[0]

Per this week’s OAG thread, it looks like BW is bringing MBJ-FLL back for the summer. I’m somewhat surprised as I thought that route performed poorly for them, it faces lots of competition and they are the only pure O&D carrier on both ends of the route. However, I guess summer has enough VFR travel and tourism for them to make it work.

I've heard that BW will be debuting the new livery this month? Anyone with insight? As far as I recall it was to come late last year with the arrival of the first MAX but we all know how that story has turned out.

BW will be debuting the updated livery on the 12th of March in POS. 9Y-TTI is the first aircraft to have it.

Post on their FB page to tune in live at 2330z.
https://www.facebook.com/caribbeanairli ... =3&theater

TriniA340 wrote:

Post on their FB page to tune in live at 2330z.
https://www.facebook.com/caribbeanairli ... =3&theater

Was this postponed?

Tried posting an image of the new livery..... hope it shows...



https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... ater&ifg=1

9Y-TTI in the new livery:





https://www.facebook.com/groups/2098413 ... 216365677/

A set back this new livery is

A388

Im curious to see this on the 737. I'll reserve my comments till then.

I think I'll reserve my final comments for now, but my outlook isn't positive...

Hundreds of SGU students are leaving Grenada due to coronavirus concerns in chartered planes. Some left yesterday and more are leaving today (Saturday). One charter airline is Eastern to MIA and as I write this there is a Swift Air 737 en-route to YYZ.
https://www.thenewtodaygrenada.com/local-news/hundreds-of-sgu-students-leave-grenada/?fbclid=IwAR1hw1gU_OuWHijKWt8aeaSxdjRrpesmp1SXZFuNgwPl3ReO5n9HxGRlGf0

gunnerman wrote:

Hundreds of SGU students are leaving Grenada due to coronavirus concerns in chartered planes. Some left yesterday and more are leaving today (Saturday). One charter airline is Eastern to MIA and as I write this there is a Swift Air 737 en-route to YYZ.
https://www.thenewtodaygrenada.com/local-news/hundreds-of-sgu-students-leave-grenada/?fbclid=IwAR1hw1gU_OuWHijKWt8aeaSxdjRrpesmp1SXZFuNgwPl3ReO5n9HxGRlGf0

Eastern is running a 763 and 762 as well. They are ferrying students to MIA. I couldn’t get a good pic as security was being difficult, but you can see the 762 here and there is a 763 next to the Condor 763 whose tail you can make out.

STS133 wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

Hundreds of SGU students are leaving Grenada due to coronavirus concerns in chartered planes. Some left yesterday and more are leaving today (Saturday). One charter airline is Eastern to MIA and as I write this there is a Swift Air 737 en-route to YYZ.
https://www.thenewtodaygrenada.com/local-news/hundreds-of-sgu-students-leave-grenada/?fbclid=IwAR1hw1gU_OuWHijKWt8aeaSxdjRrpesmp1SXZFuNgwPl3ReO5n9HxGRlGf0

Eastern is running a 763 and 762 as well. They are ferrying students to MIA.

Looks like PTP will see Air Tahiti Nui 789 stop over due to the virus affecting air travel between the USA and Europe. CDG-PTP-PPT, a very interesting route indeed! She'll be on the ground in PTP Monday 16th for 2 hours before departing to PPT, hope someone can grab some photos.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... s-nonstop/

AA has suspended GEO (from both MIA and JFK) along with most of its South America network due to drop off in demand from COVID-19.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

PBM has been closed from 14-21 March. PY is the most affected of course and others include BW from POS, KL from AMS and CM from PTY.

All flights to SXM cancelled from US, UK and Europe. Granted SXM had no commercial flights from UK anyway.


PHILIPSBURG--All international flights and cruises originating from the United States of America, Europe and the United Kingdom to Sint Maarten will be cancelled for two weeks as of Tuesday, March 17, Chairperson of the Emergency Operations Center (EOC) Prime Minister Silveria Jacobs said in a national address today, Saturday.

As of March 14, up until and including Monday, March 16, there is an opportunity for St. Maarten students studying abroad and residents as well as essential personnel to return to the country ahead of the two-week travel restrictions.

https://www.thedailyherald.sx/islands/i ... -from-tues

Brickell305 wrote:

AA has suspended GEO (from both MIA and JFK) along with most of its South America network due to drop off in demand from COVID-19.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

Seems strange that GEO was cut but others in the region remain unaffected.

Will be interesting to see what BW does. Dire times ahead for sure. Their regional expansion must sure be on hold now. Those new ATR lease payments will start adding up.