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User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3665
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:30 pm

airlinewatcher1 wrote:
Any chance AS could restart PDX-DEN and SFO-DEN?


I don't pay close attention to what AS has going on at PDX, but PDX-DEN strikes me as a weird gap in the network. Seems like a very reliable route from a core base, but perhaps someone with more inside knowledge can reason that one out. SFO-DEN would be a tougher nut to crack with strong UA bases on both ends, no connection opportunities ex-DEN and probably nothing lucrative ex-SFO for transfers.

Will be keeping an eye on the PDX-PIT rumors...that's a real wildcard of a route.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
gmcc
Posts: 355
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:57 pm

pranav7478 wrote:
why did alaska cancel the sjc-sna route? i flew on it all the time, and now i can only use southwest even though i was a pure alaska flyer. whenever i flew on it, the flights were usually decently full. they seem to have moved the flights to sfo, doubling the frequency from there. that is too far for me


AS lost 5 slots at SNA and the SNA-SJC flights were the ones that got the axe. If memory serves me SFO assigns gate like SEA so the only way to maintain gates and be in the running for more is to push as many flight through SFO as possible. I am sure if they could get more slots out of SNA they would bring the flights back but they do have to protect 2.6 billion investment at SFO.
 
Runway28L
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:19 am

Chugach wrote:
Is AS starting PDX-PIT? I saw a couple of social media posts from AS about new nonstop service but can’t find any flights, nor a press release. Social media team jump the gun a bit?

There has been absolutely zero word on any imminent service announcements here at PIT. Plus I'm not sure why a company's social media team would "leak" something only to pull it back immediately. I'm sure that would go against most policies regarding non-public info.
 
krod031
Posts: 170
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:49 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:35 am

Runway28L wrote:
Chugach wrote:
Is AS starting PDX-PIT? I saw a couple of social media posts from AS about new nonstop service but can’t find any flights, nor a press release. Social media team jump the gun a bit?

There has been absolutely zero word on any imminent service announcements here at PIT. Plus I'm not sure why a company's social media team would "leak" something only to pull it back immediately. I'm sure that would go against most policies regarding non-public info.


I would love to see the advertisement. Somebody asked them about it on Facebook and they said it was a “glitch”
 
jplatts
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:40 am

Runway28L wrote:
Chugach wrote:
Is AS starting PDX-PIT? I saw a couple of social media posts from AS about new nonstop service but can’t find any flights, nor a press release. Social media team jump the gun a bit?

There has been absolutely zero word on any imminent service announcements here at PIT. Plus I'm not sure why a company's social media team would "leak" something only to pull it back immediately. I'm sure that would go against most policies regarding non-public info.


If AS is planning on adding additional nonstop routes out of PDX, I would expect AS to also add other nonstop routes out of PDX such as PDX-FLL, PDX-IND, PDX-RDU, PDX-SAT, PDX-TPA, or PDX-IAD in addition to PDX-PIT.

Here are the Q3 2019 PDEW's of some top domestic routes out of PDX that AS doesn't currently serve nonstop from PDX:
PDX-MIA/FLL - 125
PDX-SAT - 116
PDX-RDU - 114
PDX-IND - 113
PDX-TPA - 92
PDX-MSY - 87
PDX-CMH - 87
PDX-PIT - 86

Of the top routes that AS doesn't currently serve nonstop from PDX, I could also see AS adding at least PDX-FLL, PDX-IND, and PDX-RDU nonstop service in addition to PDX-PIT as AS can probably easily fill an 737-700, 737-800, A319, or A320 on the PDX-FLL, PDX-IND, and PDX-RDU routes.
 
hpff
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:02 am

krod031 wrote:
I would love to see the advertisement. Somebody asked them about it on Facebook and they said it was a “glitch”


Glitch, of course, being the surname of the newly unemployed social media intern.
 
jbpdx
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:44 am

Alaska could find itself up against the wall soon at its No.2 hub. Delta’s A220-300s are tailor-made for long, thin cross-country nonstops. A bunch are coming up this year.
^
 
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sunking737
Posts: 1648
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:46 am

Folks seem to forget that it takes time to remove an old interior, do any repairs needed. cleaning, and reinstall everything. Have the necessary inspecting then get the blessings from Lord God Almighty..aka FAA It takes what 3 weeks per plane??
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
rajincajun01
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:16 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:42 am

airlinewatcher1 wrote:
Any chance AS could restart PDX-DEN and SFO-DEN?

As a former AS agent in DEN, unlikely. SFO won’t happen with UA doing 12x daily, including a couple widebodies. PDX was close to happening on E175 about two years ago, but was pulled just before being announced. DEN-ANC would be a great addition for AS.
A319 A320 A321 A330 B1900 B717 B727 B737 B757 B767 B777 B787 C172 C402 CR2 CR7 CRJ9 DH8 E120 ERJ135 ERJ145 E170/175/190 L1011 MD80 MD90 SF340
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 256
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:59 am

jbpdx wrote:
Alaska could find itself up against the wall soon at its No.2 hub. Delta’s A220-300s are tailor-made for long, thin cross-country nonstops. A bunch are coming up this year.


Doesn’t change DL’s current lack of gate situation though. IIRC, I thought DL said most SEA growth would be from upgauging connection carrier flying over to mainline? I know it’s been going on with a lot of their SJC, PDX, and SMF flights in/out of SEA already.

I think AS will always being #1 in SEA. Simply comes down to passenger loyalty and corporate flying they have in the SEA area.
 
jbpdx
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:15 am

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
Alaska could find itself up against the wall soon at its No.2 hub. Delta’s A220-300s are tailor-made for long, thin cross-country nonstops. A bunch are coming up this year.


Doesn’t change DL’s current lack of gate situation though. IIRC, I thought DL said most SEA growth would be from upgauging connection carrier flying over to mainline? I know it’s been going on with a lot of their SJC, PDX, and SMF flights in/out of SEA already.

I think AS will always being #1 in SEA. Simply comes down to passenger loyalty and corporate flying they have in the SEA area.


Portland is Alaska’s No.2 hub.
^
 
JayWings
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:47 am

I wonder if AS is considering some 767’s or 787’s to up their capacity in key markets, defend their SEA gate space and experiment with a longer haul venture? Westjet, while obviously in a vastly different market, was able to successfully integrate widebody service into their business plan. That would certainly be a jaw dropping announcement!
 
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gunsontheroof
Posts: 3665
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:38 am

jplatts wrote:
Runway28L wrote:
Chugach wrote:
Is AS starting PDX-PIT? I saw a couple of social media posts from AS about new nonstop service but can’t find any flights, nor a press release. Social media team jump the gun a bit?

There has been absolutely zero word on any imminent service announcements here at PIT. Plus I'm not sure why a company's social media team would "leak" something only to pull it back immediately. I'm sure that would go against most policies regarding non-public info.


If AS is planning on adding additional nonstop routes out of PDX, I would expect AS to also add other nonstop routes out of PDX such as PDX-FLL, PDX-IND, PDX-RDU, PDX-SAT, PDX-TPA, or PDX-IAD in addition to PDX-PIT.

Here are the Q3 2019 PDEW's of some top domestic routes out of PDX that AS doesn't currently serve nonstop from PDX:
PDX-MIA/FLL - 125
PDX-SAT - 116
PDX-RDU - 114
PDX-IND - 113
PDX-TPA - 92
PDX-MSY - 87
PDX-CMH - 87
PDX-PIT - 86

Of the top routes that AS doesn't currently serve nonstop from PDX, I could also see AS adding at least PDX-FLL, PDX-IND, and PDX-RDU nonstop service in addition to PDX-PIT as AS can probably easily fill an 737-700, 737-800, A319, or A320 on the PDX-FLL, PDX-IND, and PDX-RDU routes.


Thanks for posting the data, those numbers are surprising. PDX-Miami doesn't shock me as the top unserved route, but I wouldn't have expected the rest of the list to break down like this. SAT and RDU would not have been my guesses for the 2/3 rankings.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
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msp747
Posts: 479
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:40 pm

jbpdx wrote:
Alaska could find itself up against the wall soon at its No.2 hub. Delta’s A220-300s are tailor-made for long, thin cross-country nonstops. A bunch are coming up this year.

I'd say this is far more wishful thinking on your part than reality. There's nothing wrong with wanting an airline to add service (I do it all the time on this board), but do you have any actual evidence of a major DL buildup at PDX? Or that's how they plan to use their new A220s? It seems to me that DL has far bigger priorities right now, like beefing up its BOS hub, executing and growing its partnership with LATAM (which involves a buildup in MIA and fighting off AA's retaliation), and strengthening newer focus cities like AUS and BNA. Not to mention it still has plenty of work to do in SEA. I'm not saying DL doesn't value PDX, but I think trying to crush AS is further down the list than you think.
 
ASAFA
Posts: 153
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:06 pm

flybynight wrote:
Two things -

1 - Is it me, or does it seem to be taking a very long time to get the new first class up and running? I've been on one A320 that had the upgraded interior, but I don't think I've seen many - if any - 737's with the new first class

2 - So much talk about expansion, but for a good reason. I loved it when DL and AS were partners. It made travel around the east coast much easier not to mention international travel.
I feel like it is just a matter of time before AS and Jet Blue merger. Maybe it is 5 years from now. Maybe even longer. It just makes sense to me. Or at least code share.
Blue Alaska...Jet Alaska....whatever it might be.


Other than the 700 series with the new F/C seats (which is complete) there are no plans to update the rest of the 737 cabins, even though an update is desperately needed.

The guest experience is getting really inconsistent. The fact that they didn't install power outlets in the main cabin on the E175 fleet is completely baffling, especially because those aircraft are often doing 2 and 3 hour flights and also taking over all of the intra-california flying, where power and a seat assignment are pretty much the only thing setting them apart from Southwest. I'm sure it saved a few dollars when the seats were installed but someone really screwed up there.

Alaska's growth plan doesn't add up. They only have 62 mainline aircraft on order. They have just 32 MAX on order plus the original Virgin America order for 30 320 NEO that hasn't been discussed or touched in years. If they're planning on keeping the 321 NEO (and they'd be completely foolish not to) then they will need to convert the 320N to 321N sooner rather than later. They've all but confirmed they're disposing of all of the 319 and 320 in the fleet when the leases expire over the next 5 years - which means even if they take delivery of every single aircraft they have on order they'll only be adding 10 mainline aircraft in the next 5 years. That doesn't even account for the needed replacement of the aging original 700 and 900 which are reaching more than 20 years old. Obviously they hadn't planned on waiting this long to announce their fleet plan, which means the worst kept secret in the industry is they'll be sticking with Boeing and ordering more MAX (at fire sale prices) but the extended grounding has certainly thrown a wrench in those plans. Their lack of concern over the MAX issues has become rather worrying, because they're currently down 3 aircraft with more than 8 scheduled for delivery this year that are now on indefinite hold, plus they'll be facing production delays that will stretch months and even years. So where will any growth aircraft come from?? I think their only option at this point is another merger.
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 876
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:10 am

ASAFA wrote:
flybynight wrote:
The guest experience is getting really inconsistent. The fact that they didn't install power outlets in the main cabin on the E175 fleet is completely baffling, especially because those aircraft are often doing 2 and 3 hour flights and also taking over all of the intra-california flying, where power and a seat assignment are pretty much the only thing setting them apart from Southwest. I'm sure it saved a few dollars when the seats were installed but someone really screwed up there.


A very true statement. I’m Gold but had my first experience on a Horizon E-Jet from Portland to Minneapolis two weeks ago. Amazing aircraft and fantastic crew — but I was flabbergasted to realize economy had no power outlets. As a result I had to go buy a power bank because I’m booked on the same flight 3 times over the next 3 months and I want to be able to watch movies and have a fully charged phone when I land.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:46 am

ASAFA wrote:

Other than the 700 series with the new F/C seats (which is complete) there are no plans to update the rest of the 737 cabins, even though an update is desperately needed.


The entire 737 fleet is getting the new cabin, not just the 73Gs. But have not started yet. Airbus first.
a.
 
packmedic
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:03 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:49 am

flybynight wrote:
Two things -

1 - Is it me, or does it seem to be taking a very long time to get the new first class up and running? I've been on one A320 that had the upgraded interior, but I don't think I've seen many - if any - 737's with the new first class

2 - So much talk about expansion, but for a good reason. I loved it when DL and AS were partners. It made travel around the east coast much easier not to mention international travel.
I feel like it is just a matter of time before AS and Jet Blue merger. Maybe it is 5 years from now. Maybe even longer. It just makes sense to me. Or at least code share.
Blue Alaska...Jet Alaska....whatever it might be.


All 737-700s and A321s have the new interior (and MAX9s will be delivered with the new interior), but there are not currently plans to upgrade the -800s or -900s, at least until the Airbus fleet is done. The A320 fleet is roughly 2/3 done with interior upgrades (17/51 remaining), but all A319s remain in the original VX interior, as I believe they're due to be returned to lessors sooner rather than later

Resource: https://alaskafleetstatus.weebly.com/

MAH4546 wrote:
The entire 737 fleet is getting the new cabin, not just the 73Gs. But have not started yet. Airbus first.


Not correct, at least for now. Only the Airbus aircraft, MAXs, and 73Gs are slated for the new interior
A319 A320 A321 A321N A332 A333 A359 A388 AT72 B717 B733 B734 B734C B735 B73G B738 B739 B744 B752 B763 B764 B772 B789 B78X CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9 DH8D E135 E140 E145 E170 E175 E190 MD80 MD90
 
hpff
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:26 am

roadrunner165 wrote:
ASAFA wrote:
flybynight wrote:
The guest experience is getting really inconsistent. The fact that they didn't install power outlets in the main cabin on the E175 fleet is completely baffling, especially because those aircraft are often doing 2 and 3 hour flights and also taking over all of the intra-california flying, where power and a seat assignment are pretty much the only thing setting them apart from Southwest. I'm sure it saved a few dollars when the seats were installed but someone really screwed up there.


A very true statement. I’m Gold but had my first experience on a Horizon E-Jet from Portland to Minneapolis two weeks ago. Amazing aircraft and fantastic crew — but I was flabbergasted to realize economy had no power outlets. As a result I had to go buy a power bank because I’m booked on the same flight 3 times over the next 3 months and I want to be able to watch movies and have a fully charged phone when I land.


Yep, was shocked not to have them on my first Horizon E-Jet flight in economy. It's not that I expect to have a plug sitting in economy, but I expected an AS-branded plane to have plugs in economy. Was otherwise very comfortable.
 
lhpdx
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:48 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Chugach wrote:
Is AS starting PDX-PIT? I saw a couple of social media posts from AS about new nonstop service but can’t find any flights, nor a press release. Social media team jump the gun a bit?


They've said that PDX is primed for a lot of growth in the near future. Wouldn't be surprised!


When did AS state this??
 
SocalApproach
Posts: 272
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:09 am

ASAFA wrote:
[I think their only option at this point is another merger.


Your entire post is spot on how I feel about how AS is running things from an outsider. Ill admit when the VX acquisition was announced I initially thought that AS was just going to liquidate the VX operation in SFO/LAX and just go back to focusing on being a regional PNW carrier in Seattle. When all the Most West Coast expansion in California news was published I was shocked to be honest but it wasn't long until we were back to reality watching AS retreat back to SEA and drop routes they added out of SFO/LAX or reduce capacity to regional flying in California. We have all put 2 and 2 together to figure out the fleet decision is 737MAX and whenever it is allowed to fly again AS will finally confirm this. Obviously the national player California/West Coast plan flopped and if any future growth is announced it remains to be seen if it involves anything but SEA which in my opinion the airport is maxed out but I do understand its the one thing AS has that if it were to go up in smoke like California, a merger would happen sooner rather than later. I have already been on record to say I think it happens regardless since they have not capitalized on the VX acquisition.

But apparently if you read earlier in the thread our jaws should be dropping soon....

I am not perplexed by AS at all and considering how the last growth plan went the past 5 years.....ill keep my jaw firmly in place but just like you, I am watching.
 
KFTG
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:19 am

How are they doing in Wichita?
 
tiptoe42
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:27 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:54 am

SocalApproach wrote:
ASAFA wrote:
[I think their only option at this point is another merger.


Your entire post is spot on how I feel about how AS is running things from an outsider. Ill admit when the VX acquisition was announced I initially thought that AS was just going to liquidate the VX operation in SFO/LAX and just go back to focusing on being a regional PNW carrier in Seattle. When all the Most West Coast expansion in California news was published I was shocked to be honest but it wasn't long until we were back to reality watching AS retreat back to SEA and drop routes they added out of SFO/LAX or reduce capacity to regional flying in California. We have all put 2 and 2 together to figure out the fleet decision is 737MAX and whenever it is allowed to fly again AS will finally confirm this. Obviously the national player California/West Coast plan flopped and if any future growth is announced it remains to be seen if it involves anything but SEA which in my opinion the airport is maxed out but I do understand its the one thing AS has that if it were to go up in smoke like California, a merger would happen sooner rather than later. I have already been on record to say I think it happens regardless since they have not capitalized on the VX acquisition.

But apparently if you read earlier in the thread our jaws should be dropping soon....

I am not perplexed by AS at all and considering how the last growth plan went the past 5 years.....ill keep my jaw firmly in place but just like you, I am watching.


I could be wrong, but I’d be willing to bet a lot on the fact that any “growth” Alaska may announce will not cause anyone’s jaw to drop outside of Seattle, Portland, or Anchorage. The company has literally zero brand recognition outside of Alaska and the Pacific Northwest.
My guess is that after the max is certified there will be an order for some number of them. I am highly skeptical of their 200 number consisting of 100 replacements and 100 growth. I think the higher likelihood is a continued growth of horizon and Skywest, with mainline seat number growth but not really much in the way of airframe number growth.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:46 pm

BOI-PAE to be added at the expense of a PDX-PAE. I find this a rather surprising add. BOI-SEA still appears to be 11x daily now with up to 4x mainline. That’s a lot of seats compared to the past.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/bus ... 62568.html
 
roadrunner165
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Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:47 pm

Alaska is something like the 5th largest airline in the US, they certainly have brand recognition all across the States.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 412
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:09 pm

tiptoe42 wrote:
The company has literally zero brand recognition outside of Alaska and the Pacific Northwest.


You are literally wrong. People forget Alaska has had California operations for years. They were the go-to back in the day for Mexico resort destinations. No, they don’t have the brand recognition of the US3 or WN, but they don’t have “literally zero brand recognition.” There’s a lot of misleading statements on this board about this. Alaska is number 5 at LAX last time I checked in a very fragmented market and operate the majority of a terminal. Alaska is number 2 at SFO. Yes, a distant number 2 but still a large operation. They have focus cities in SJC and SAN.

They have cut routes and moved flights. But someone not in the know reading these posts would think Alaska’s LAX and SFO ops are a shell of what they used to be or that AS had no presence in these places prior and are back to where they started. That’s simply a lie.

So having a large operation in the most populous state in the country equates to “zero brand recognition” on airliners.net. Seems logical.
 
FSDan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:24 pm

roadrunner165 wrote:
Alaska is something like the 5th largest airline in the US, they certainly have brand recognition all across the States.


AS is very West Coast-centric. Name the stations east of the Rockies where they operate more than 5 daily flights. AUS, DAL, ORD, MCO, EWR, JFK, BOS. Maybe BWI in the summer. Raise the bar to more than 10 daily flights, and AUS, MCO, BWI, and BOS drop out of the list.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:02 pm

Question for someone who might have knowledge of AS's website. Specifically I'm trying to figure out the new route map found here:
https://www.alaskaair.com/route-map/?li ... e-routeMap

I don't like this new version of their route map at all and hope the original one returns (along with the .pdf timetable which has also disappeared...) The old route map is still online but is very outdated, having not been updated since sometime last year; it's obviously been abandoned.

But on the current version, I don't understand what the numbers in the little blue circles indicate. I just can't figure out any purpose for them and can't find any explanation on how to use the route map which might explain what the little numbers mean. Anyone? (I do notice that the numbers change as you zoom in or out on the map...)

It's becoming somewhat difficult for me to now keep up to date on AS's cancelled routes -- not so much tracking new routes 'cause there aren't many of those these days -- such as SAN/SEA-HDN as I brought up in an earlier post on this thread. Axed next ski season or not? I'm hoping the route map might help me keep up-to-date on AS's network.

bb
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:58 pm

SANFan wrote:
Question for someone who might have knowledge of AS's website. Specifically I'm trying to figure out the new route map found here:
https://www.alaskaair.com/route-map/?li ... e-routeMap

I don't like this new version of their route map at all and hope the original one returns (along with the .pdf timetable which has also disappeared...) The old route map is still online but is very outdated, having not been updated since sometime last year; it's obviously been abandoned.

But on the current version, I don't understand what the numbers in the little blue circles indicate. I just can't figure out any purpose for them and can't find any explanation on how to use the route map which might explain what the little numbers mean. Anyone? (I do notice that the numbers change as you zoom in or out on the map...)

It's becoming somewhat difficult for me to now keep up to date on AS's cancelled routes -- not so much tracking new routes 'cause there aren't many of those these days -- such as SAN/SEA-HDN as I brought up in an earlier post on this thread. Axed next ski season or not? I'm hoping the route map might help me keep up-to-date on AS's network.

bb


The new route map is like the maps many stores and restaurants use. If “6” shows up that means there are six airports - when you zoom in the individual airports come up.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:00 pm

SANFan wrote:
Question for someone who might have knowledge of AS's website. Specifically I'm trying to figure out the new route map found here:
https://www.alaskaair.com/route-map/?li ... e-routeMap

I don't like this new version of their route map at all and hope the original one returns (along with the .pdf timetable which has also disappeared...) The old route map is still online but is very outdated, having not been updated since sometime last year; it's obviously been abandoned.

But on the current version, I don't understand what the numbers in the little blue circles indicate. I just can't figure out any purpose for them and can't find any explanation on how to use the route map which might explain what the little numbers mean. Anyone? (I do notice that the numbers change as you zoom in or out on the map...)

It's becoming somewhat difficult for me to now keep up to date on AS's cancelled routes -- not so much tracking new routes 'cause there aren't many of those these days -- such as SAN/SEA-HDN as I brought up in an earlier post on this thread. Axed next ski season or not? I'm hoping the route map might help me keep up-to-date on AS's network.

bb


Looks to me like the numbers represent airports that have been consolidated into one larger dot on the map. As you zoom in, these dots are de-consolidated. E.g. I was seeing "6" over the Bay Area, and when I zoomed in these turned into individual dots for STS, SMF, OAK, SFO, SJC, and FAT.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
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SANFan
Posts: 5433
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:13 pm

Thanks guys. I thought about that but then saw a "12" in the SEA area but I guess that represents perhaps the number of airports in the state; CA I guess is divided into northern and southern. A few still don't particularly make sense but I'll buy into it.

Too bad AAG couldn't have included a legend or brief explanation on how the map works -- especially compared to the previous version which I found much more straight forward and user friendly.

Again, I appreciate your assistance, LAXBUR and FSDan.

bb
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:03 am

So is AS using up the PAE "slots" that UA is vacating already? AS announced PAE-BOI. Or are they sacrificing another flight for the BOI flight?
 
panam330
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:30 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
So is AS using up the PAE "slots" that UA is vacating already? AS announced PAE-BOI. Or are they sacrificing another flight for the BOI flight?

PDX-PAE loses a frequency, now down to two.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:33 am

panam330 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
So is AS using up the PAE "slots" that UA is vacating already? AS announced PAE-BOI. Or are they sacrificing another flight for the BOI flight?

PDX-PAE loses a frequency, now down to two.


Got it. I think there were too many dailies on the PAE to PDX in the first place.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:10 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
panam330 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
So is AS using up the PAE "slots" that UA is vacating already? AS announced PAE-BOI. Or are they sacrificing another flight for the BOI flight?

PDX-PAE loses a frequency, now down to two.


Got it. I think there were too many dailies on the PAE to PDX in the first place.


I think AS probably loaded up PAE-PDX out of the gate to hold on to the slots. The route might not be worthy of 4x daily (I think that's what they started with), but once you have a year of flying under your belt and a better idea of how the market works, you can start looking at the "maybe" routes (GEG, PSP, BOI) with some of those slots. No inside info on my end, just spitballing.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
tphuang
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:01 pm

All the pae routes so far are probably losing money. These are long term plays by as. We will see how it works out, but I would not be surprised if United gives up on it entirely. And then as can figure out how many flights are truly worth it.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:19 pm

tphuang wrote:
All the pae routes so far are probably losing money. These are long term plays by as. We will see how it works out, but I would not be surprised if United gives up on it entirely. And then as can figure out how many flights are truly worth it.


Just speculation (no data), but I have read on other threads that, at least in terms of load factors, PAE-DEN is doing well. Yields? Well, I don't know.
 
tphuang
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:21 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
All the pae routes so far are probably losing money. These are long term plays by as. We will see how it works out, but I would not be surprised if United gives up on it entirely. And then as can figure out how many flights are truly worth it.


Just speculation (no data), but I have read on other threads that, at least in terms of load factors, PAE-DEN is doing well. Yields? Well, I don't know.

I posted the yields on the oag thread in comparison to sea.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:27 pm

Questions about the new PAE-BOI service on AS.

Has this been officially announced by AS anywhere? I sure can't find it.

That being said, I see the PAE-BOI r/t on AS's skeds beginning June 18; the EMJ will RON in Idaho. But I still see 3x daily PDX-PAE service after 6/18. I looks like this route did not get a reduced frequency (2X) to fund the new BOI flight. Can anyone clarify?

bb
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:55 pm

SANFan wrote:
Questions about the new PAE-BOI service on AS.

Has this been officially announced by AS anywhere? I sure can't find it.

That being said, I see the PAE-BOI r/t on AS's skeds beginning June 18; the EMJ will RON in Idaho. But I still see 3x daily PDX-PAE service after 6/18. I looks like this route did not get a reduced frequency (2X) to fund the new BOI flight. Can anyone clarify?

bb


Interesting...it's announced on Alaska's Facebook page.
 
jspurg15
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:03 pm

airlinewatcher1 wrote:
Any chance AS could restart PDX-DEN and SFO-DEN?


The DEN route was not so popular so that is why it went away.
 
durangomac
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:57 pm

jspurg15 wrote:
airlinewatcher1 wrote:
Any chance AS could restart PDX-DEN and SFO-DEN?


The DEN route was not so popular so that is why it went away.


SEA/PDX-DEN has too many players in mix, AS would like to expand but with NK, F9, WN and UA the market is hard to gain much traction to justify a PDX-DEN.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:15 am

SANFan wrote:
Question for someone who might have knowledge of AS's website. Specifically I'm trying to figure out the new route map found here:
https://www.alaskaair.com/route-map/?li ... e-routeMap

I don't like this new version of their route map at all and hope the original one returns (along with the .pdf timetable which has also disappeared...) The old route map is still online but is very outdated, having not been updated since sometime last year; it's obviously been abandoned.

But on the current version, I don't understand what the numbers in the little blue circles indicate. I just can't figure out any purpose for them and can't find any explanation on how to use the route map which might explain what the little numbers mean. Anyone? (I do notice that the numbers change as you zoom in or out on the map...)

It's becoming somewhat difficult for me to now keep up to date on AS's cancelled routes -- not so much tracking new routes 'cause there aren't many of those these days -- such as SAN/SEA-HDN as I brought up in an earlier post on this thread. Axed next ski season or not? I'm hoping the route map might help me keep up-to-date on AS's network.

bb


That route map is terrible. When I look at a route map, I want to see:
a) complete route system without having to do anything except maybe zooming in. No picking cities, etc.
b) actually see routes and not just destinations. Only two aspects of a route map. Routes on a map.
c) keep them up to date. Seems better and easier tech is, worse and more inaccurate things are getting.
d) if you have to click on a city, just show all nonstop routes from there. I do not need to click on a town, pick a destination, especially having to include a date... I just want to see where the f*** you fly to!
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:21 am

sprxUSA wrote:
That route map is terrible. When I look at a route map, I want to see:
a) complete route system without having to do anything except maybe zooming in. No picking cities, etc.
b) actually see routes and not just destinations. Only two aspects of a route map. Routes on a map.
c) keep them up to date. Seems better and easier tech is, worse and more inaccurate things are getting.
d) if you have to click on a city, just show all nonstop routes from there. I do not need to click on a town, pick a destination, especially having to include a date... I just want to see where the f*** you fly to!

Agree 100%. What you're describing that you want to see is exactly the previous AS route map! As I said, I sure hope we see both the former route map and the .pdf timetable return to AS's website. Come to think of it, that would make AS one of the only airlines offering the .pdf timetable so I guess the chances of that happening are slim, leaning toward "none"...

bb
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am

One other thing I wanted to mention is that I see in the AS skeds that the MAXs are now showing as starting to fly on June 18; I see SEA-SAN/LAX as the inaugural cities but there might be more. (Errrrrr, everything I just reported is very subject to change...)

But gosh, maybe this will turn out to actually be the inaugural date that will hold up! Let's hope so, cause I'd sure love to see AS get some new mainline aircraft!

bb
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:44 am

SANFan wrote:
One other thing I wanted to mention is that I see in the AS skeds that the MAXs are now showing as starting to fly on June 18; I see SEA-SAN/LAX as the inaugural cities but there might be more. (Errrrrr, everything I just reported is very subject to change...)

But gosh, maybe this will turn out to actually be the inaugural date that will hold up! Let's hope so, cause I'd sure love to see AS get some new mainline aircraft!

bb


I'll believe it when I see it.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:01 am

SANFan wrote:
sprxUSA wrote:
That route map is terrible. When I look at a route map, I want to see:
a) complete route system without having to do anything except maybe zooming in. No picking cities, etc.
b) actually see routes and not just destinations. Only two aspects of a route map. Routes on a map.
c) keep them up to date. Seems better and easier tech is, worse and more inaccurate things are getting.
d) if you have to click on a city, just show all nonstop routes from there. I do not need to click on a town, pick a destination, especially having to include a date... I just want to see where the f*** you fly to!

Agree 100%. What you're describing that you want to see is exactly the previous AS route map! As I said, I sure hope we see both the former route map and the .pdf timetable return to AS's website. Come to think of it, that would make AS one of the only airlines offering the .pdf timetable so I guess the chances of that happening are slim, leaning toward "none"...

bb



It’s the result of the e-commerce team trying to be creative. I’ll pass the feedback on, as I meet with them twice a month.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:02 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
SANFan wrote:
sprxUSA wrote:
That route map is terrible. When I look at a route map, I want to see:
a) complete route system without having to do anything except maybe zooming in. No picking cities, etc.
b) actually see routes and not just destinations. Only two aspects of a route map. Routes on a map.
c) keep them up to date. Seems better and easier tech is, worse and more inaccurate things are getting.
d) if you have to click on a city, just show all nonstop routes from there. I do not need to click on a town, pick a destination, especially having to include a date... I just want to see where the f*** you fly to!

Agree 100%. What you're describing that you want to see is exactly the previous AS route map! As I said, I sure hope we see both the former route map and the .pdf timetable return to AS's website. Come to think of it, that would make AS one of the only airlines offering the .pdf timetable so I guess the chances of that happening are slim, leaning toward "none"...

It’s the result of the e-commerce team trying to be creative. I’ll pass the feedback on, as I meet with them twice a month.

Thank you EA', much appreciated. Some old saying my gran'pappy used to say, "If it ain't broke, then just leave it be" might be appropriate here!

bb
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:45 pm

SANFan wrote:
Questions about the new PAE-BOI service on AS.

Has this been officially announced by AS anywhere? I sure can't find it.

That being said, I see the PAE-BOI r/t on AS's skeds beginning June 18; the EMJ will RON in Idaho. But I still see 3x daily PDX-PAE service after 6/18. I looks like this route did not get a reduced frequency (2X) to fund the new BOI flight. Can anyone clarify?

bb


Only local press reported it from what I see. Really isn’t a huge add so not surprised there isn’t a specific press release or lots of fan fare.

I swear when I looked it was down to 2x for PDX. But now it appears to still be 3x. Perhaps the OAG update will clarify.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:24 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
SANFan wrote:
Questions about the new PAE-BOI service on AS.

I see the PAE-BOI r/t on AS's skeds beginning June 18; the EMJ will RON in Idaho. But I still see 3x daily PDX-PAE service after 6/18. I looks like this route did not get a reduced frequency (2X) to fund the new BOI flight. Can anyone clarify?

Only local press reported it from what I see. Really isn’t a huge add so not surprised there isn’t a specific press release or lots of fan fare.

I swear when I looked it was down to 2x for PDX. But now it appears to still be 3x. Perhaps the OAG update will clarify.

I'm pretty sure that if they did reduce a PAE flight somewhere in the network to fund BOI, they would have pulled the affected flight at the same time they added PAE-BOI. Maybe another existing route has been reduced instead of PDX and nobody's noticed it yet; it would prolly be a late flight out of PAE that RONs in some other city as that's what the BOI-flight does. Or could it be that AS is jumping on one of the slots opened by UA's reduction of PAE-SFO? (I doubt this but who knows...)

The post in social media where the "announcement" was made doesn't mention what was cut or reduced to allow the new BOI route.

bb
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