Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 11
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15725
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:32 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Are they doing to dump the neos as well?


Nothing has been decided on the A321NEOs just yet, but AS really, really, REALLY likes them.

The plan is to call back 19 airframes from storage in July and another 17-19ish in August, with the intention of operating at 60% of pre-COVID levels by then, gradually increasing from there.

Regarding the recent B6 adds, they definitely received attention and expect to see a response.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:31 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Are they doing to dump the neos as well?


Nothing has been decided on the A321NEOs just yet, but AS really, really, REALLY likes them.

The plan is to call back 19 airframes from storage in July and another 17-19ish in August, with the intention of operating at 60% of pre-COVID levels by then, gradually increasing from there.

Regarding the recent B6 adds, they definitely received attention and expect to see a response.


By response are you hinting more at a retreat or additional capacity?
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:01 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Are they doing to dump the neos as well?


Nothing has been decided on the A321NEOs just yet, but AS really, really, REALLY likes them.

The plan is to call back 19 airframes from storage in July and another 17-19ish in August, with the intention of operating at 60% of pre-COVID levels by then, gradually increasing from there.

Regarding the recent B6 adds, they definitely received attention and expect to see a response.

Thank you for the info!
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2249
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:41 pm

Would love to see an aggressive response targeted at B6...it could involve BOS, JFK, EWR...who knows? Grab a bunch of LGB slots? That’d be fun to watch and maybe cheaper than adding transcons. ;)
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5236
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:18 am

EA CO AS wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Are they doing to dump the neos as well?


Nothing has been decided on the A321NEOs just yet, but AS really, really, REALLY likes them.

The plan is to call back 19 airframes from storage in July and another 17-19ish in August, with the intention of operating at 60% of pre-COVID levels by then, gradually increasing from there.

Regarding the recent B6 adds, they definitely received attention and expect to see a response.


I think the passengers really like the A321-NEO's...I like them. But all the A319's are history.
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3641
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:47 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
Are they doing to dump the neos as well?


Nothing has been decided on the A321NEOs just yet, but AS really, really, REALLY likes them.

The plan is to call back 19 airframes from storage in July and another 17-19ish in August, with the intention of operating at 60% of pre-COVID levels by then, gradually increasing from there.

Regarding the recent B6 adds, they definitely received attention and expect to see a response.


I'll be quite surprised if AS doesn't ultimately hang on to the A321 fleet. There doesn't seem to be a more viable competitor available in that class, AS already has a large pool of Airbus pilots and the aircraft gives them a nice platform to explore advancing their transcon offerings post-covid. They've also grown/diversified their network enough where operating a single type might not be their wisest option.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:53 pm

A question came up on the OAG thread this morning and maybe some here can clarify.

AS is showing that starting Aug 1, they will operate 1 daily flight from PAE to LAS and 1 to PHX. All other Paine Field routes are non-existent.

Huh?

Is the airport open or closed as of 8/1? If closed, how is AS handling 2 daily flights (and why is one to PHX, in August, in the midst of a huge COVID presence?) If open, what about all the other destinations? I realize this all could (and very well might) change but it seems that AAG should have some idea about and a handle on what's going on in August, even for a preliminary schedule release.

Thanks in advance for any help in figuring this out.

bb
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3641
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:22 pm

SANFan wrote:
A question came up on the OAG thread this morning and maybe some here can clarify.

AS is showing that starting Aug 1, they will operate 1 daily flight from PAE to LAS and 1 to PHX. All other Paine Field routes are non-existent.

Huh?

Is the airport open or closed as of 8/1? If closed, how is AS handling 2 daily flights (and why is one to PHX, in August, in the midst of a huge COVID presence?) If open, what about all the other destinations? I realize this all could (and very well might) change but it seems that AAG should have some idea about and a handle on what's going on in August, even for a preliminary schedule release.

Thanks in advance for any help in figuring this out.

bb


I think PAE-PHX is the only route currently in play, but I'd be surprised if AS and UA didn't come back when things return to normal. PAE hit 1,000,000 pax in their first year, not a bad start.

https://www.heraldnet.com/business/alas ... e-per-day/
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15725
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:04 am

PAEPHX has been huge for AS.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1962
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:35 am

gunsontheroof wrote:
SANFan wrote:
A question came up on the OAG thread this morning and maybe some here can clarify.

AS is showing that starting Aug 1, they will operate 1 daily flight from PAE to LAS and 1 to PHX. All other Paine Field routes are non-existent.

Huh?

Is the airport open or closed as of 8/1? If closed, how is AS handling 2 daily flights (and why is one to PHX, in August, in the midst of a huge COVID presence?) If open, what about all the other destinations? I realize this all could (and very well might) change but it seems that AAG should have some idea about and a handle on what's going on in August, even for a preliminary schedule release.

Thanks in advance for any help in figuring this out.

bb


I think PAE-PHX is the only route currently in play, but I'd be surprised if AS and UA didn't come back when things return to normal. PAE hit 1,000,000 pax in their first year, not a bad start.

https://www.heraldnet.com/business/alas ... e-per-day/


Well PAE also stated they have a business to run. The covid impact will force them to take back all unused slots from United and AlaskaAir. And seek out other airlines to service the airport.
They need the revenue to pay the bills and can't gamble on United or AlaskaAir maybe coming back some day.

Spirit, Frontier ,Southwest and JetBlue are all in prime position to jump in and gain marketshare.

AlaskaAir I think is going to be forced into defending it's turf in this pandemic should a strong player takes PAE up on getting slots.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
CaptainObvious1
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:22 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:45 am

wnflyguy wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:
SANFan wrote:
A question came up on the OAG thread this morning and maybe some here can clarify.

AS is showing that starting Aug 1, they will operate 1 daily flight from PAE to LAS and 1 to PHX. All other Paine Field routes are non-existent.

Huh?

Is the airport open or closed as of 8/1? If closed, how is AS handling 2 daily flights (and why is one to PHX, in August, in the midst of a huge COVID presence?) If open, what about all the other destinations? I realize this all could (and very well might) change but it seems that AAG should have some idea about and a handle on what's going on in August, even for a preliminary schedule release.

Thanks in advance for any help in figuring this out.

bb


I think PAE-PHX is the only route currently in play, but I'd be surprised if AS and UA didn't come back when things return to normal. PAE hit 1,000,000 pax in their first year, not a bad start.

https://www.heraldnet.com/business/alas ... e-per-day/


Well PAE also stated they have a business to run. The covid impact will force them to take back all unused slots from United and AlaskaAir. And seek out other airlines to service the airport.
They need the revenue to pay the bills and can't gamble on United or AlaskaAir maybe coming back some day.

Spirit, Frontier ,Southwest and JetBlue are all in prime position to jump in and gain marketshare.

AlaskaAir I think is going to be forced into defending it's turf in this pandemic should a strong player takes PAE up on getting slots.

Flyguy


What routes do you see the above mentioned airlines wanting to jump in and serve based on the market?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:52 am

A little embarrassing for AS to retreat again in August from EWR considering the B6 expansion. I would have thought AS would have at least matched the frequencies. The routes are legacy VX routes and were amongst the most profitable, what happened?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1962
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:52 am

CaptainObvious1 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:

I think PAE-PHX is the only route currently in play, but I'd be surprised if AS and UA didn't come back when things return to normal. PAE hit 1,000,000 pax in their first year, not a bad start.

https://www.heraldnet.com/business/alas ... e-per-day/


Well PAE also stated they have a business to run. The covid impact will force them to take back all unused slots from United and AlaskaAir. And seek out other airlines to service the airport.
They need the revenue to pay the bills and can't gamble on United or AlaskaAir maybe coming back some day.

Spirit, Frontier ,Southwest and JetBlue are all in prime position to jump in and gain marketshare.

AlaskaAir I think is going to be forced into defending it's turf in this pandemic should a strong player takes PAE up on getting slots.

Flyguy


What routes do you see the above mentioned airlines wanting to jump in and serve based on the market?


Well Frontier is the King for throwing darts.
They love to jump in and try a bunch of different things.
Spirit would probably add a lot of west coast dots to fill the AS and UA void like PHX,LAS,LAX,OAK,DEN and SAN.

And

If Southwest jumped back in the game I see
DEN,LAS,OAK and PHX.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
n7371f
Posts: 1818
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:09 am

Huge would mean 2 737's a day.

EA CO AS wrote:
PAEPHX has been huge for AS.
 
d8s
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:56 am

sunking737 wrote:
Did anyone catch that AS is going to cut even more Airbus jets next year?? I saw it posted in Aviator newsletter.I get emailed daily. " Alaska Airlines (US) plans to retire more A320s, including seven of its 49 remaining A320s in 2021. The carrier will retire one B737-800 and hopes to take delivery of 15 B737 MAX 8s in 2021."


I read they were doing the same with the A319, parking them all. Here is the article:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -its-a319s
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5236
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:53 am

wnflyguy wrote:
CaptainObvious1 wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:

Well PAE also stated they have a business to run. The covid impact will force them to take back all unused slots from United and AlaskaAir. And seek out other airlines to service the airport.
They need the revenue to pay the bills and can't gamble on United or AlaskaAir maybe coming back some day.

Spirit, Frontier ,Southwest and JetBlue are all in prime position to jump in and gain marketshare.

AlaskaAir I think is going to be forced into defending it's turf in this pandemic should a strong player takes PAE up on getting slots.

Flyguy


What routes do you see the above mentioned airlines wanting to jump in and serve based on the market?


Well Frontier is the King for throwing darts.
They love to jump in and try a bunch of different things.
Spirit would probably add a lot of west coast dots to fill the AS and UA void like PHX,LAS,LAX,OAK,DEN and SAN.

And

If Southwest jumped back in the game I see
DEN,LAS,OAK and PHX.

Flyguy


It will also depend on if the construction will be completed on time.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:21 am

Back to the PAE situation. Hold on a second here. First, there is NO service on AS from PAE to anywhere (including PHX) right now; PHX & LAS begin Aug 1 yet no other routes return.

The article linked above was written in mid-May, at the height of the COVID effects on AS and other cx. There was no mention of the airport construction coming up which would close the terminal and temporarily drop all service to Paine Field. The article made it sound like AS was perhaps just going to give up on PAE service.

I don't know what network planning in SEA is planning for PAE but I really can't foresee them cancelling all but 2 routes from PAE.

Now all of a sudden people here are trying to figure out which airlines are going to swoop in and replace AS (and UA?) ! I think we need to take a step back, take a deep breath and chill for a few weeks. I really doubt that AS is going anywhere and will bring their service at PAE back as soon as (a) the airport apron work is finished, and (b) the traffic at the airport reaches levels that support that service. (I assume UA will do the same.) The COVID recovery is really just starting and PAE is, after all, a pretty small airport near a very big airport!

The question I asked up-thread was why only a single flight to PHX and to LAS on August 1 by AS. (And again I say, PHX? In August?) Maybe AS is "trying the new apron out" at PAE with just a couple of flights? They can't even operate a single flight to SAN or LA or SJC? (I believe these markets all saw 2 daily flights pre-COVID.) Can all the CA markets have failed miserably from PAE for AAG?

bb
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:28 am

BTW, I just checked AS's online schedules and Sept 1 shows 2 daily flights from PAE to SAN, LAX and SJC! (Those are the only markets I checked.) I realize these schedules could change but a lot of work has already been done on the Sept 1 release by AS and the PAE flights are there!

bb
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5952
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:53 am

[quote="Nicknuzzii"]A little embarrassing for AS to retreat again in August from EWR considering the B6 expansion. I would have thought AS would have at least matched the frequencies. The routes are legacy VX routes and were amongst the most profitable, what happened?[/


I think that’s why Jetblue made the move.

This isn’t the time for an aggressive response between three airlines on long haul flights.

Obviously these routes don’t make that much money for Alaska...They basically pulled Kennedy and Newark down to nothing thru Sept.


They have a product in J that isnt competitive on that route. They should’ve left a subfleet of Airbuses for the transcons with lie flat J
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:19 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:
SANFan wrote:
A question came up on the OAG thread this morning and maybe some here can clarify.

AS is showing that starting Aug 1, they will operate 1 daily flight from PAE to LAS and 1 to PHX. All other Paine Field routes are non-existent.

Huh?

Is the airport open or closed as of 8/1? If closed, how is AS handling 2 daily flights (and why is one to PHX, in August, in the midst of a huge COVID presence?) If open, what about all the other destinations? I realize this all could (and very well might) change but it seems that AAG should have some idea about and a handle on what's going on in August, even for a preliminary schedule release.

Thanks in advance for any help in figuring this out.

bb


I think PAE-PHX is the only route currently in play, but I'd be surprised if AS and UA didn't come back when things return to normal. PAE hit 1,000,000 pax in their first year, not a bad start.

https://www.heraldnet.com/business/alas ... e-per-day/


Well PAE also stated they have a business to run. The covid impact will force them to take back all unused slots from United and AlaskaAir. And seek out other airlines to service the airport.
They need the revenue to pay the bills and can't gamble on United or AlaskaAir maybe coming back some day.

Spirit, Frontier ,Southwest and JetBlue are all in prime position to jump in and gain marketshare.

AlaskaAir I think is going to be forced into defending it's turf in this pandemic should a strong player takes PAE up on getting slots.

Flyguy
This is some pretty fanciful thinking. These slots weren't a hot commodity before COVID.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 409
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:

I think PAE-PHX is the only route currently in play, but I'd be surprised if AS and UA didn't come back when things return to normal. PAE hit 1,000,000 pax in their first year, not a bad start.

https://www.heraldnet.com/business/alas ... e-per-day/


Well PAE also stated they have a business to run. The covid impact will force them to take back all unused slots from United and AlaskaAir. And seek out other airlines to service the airport.
They need the revenue to pay the bills and can't gamble on United or AlaskaAir maybe coming back some day.

Spirit, Frontier ,Southwest and JetBlue are all in prime position to jump in and gain marketshare.

AlaskaAir I think is going to be forced into defending it's turf in this pandemic should a strong player takes PAE up on getting slots.

Flyguy
This is some pretty fanciful thinking. These slots weren't a hot commodity before COVID.


Yeah, I don’t see how in the best of times when few were interested equates to more interest during the worst of times.

PAE will likely stay a small niche airport for AS frequent flyers at most. WN still isn’t very strong in the Northwest so operating out of another airport in Seattle doesn’t make much sense. JetBlue is likely mostly serving folks originating in the Northeast who won’t be familiar with “Everett”. I agree. This is “fanciful thinking”.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 409
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:05 pm

SANFan wrote:
BTW, I just checked AS's online schedules and Sept 1 shows 2 daily flights from PAE to SAN, LAX and SJC! (Those are the only markets I checked.) I realize these schedules could change but a lot of work has already been done on the Sept 1 release by AS and the PAE flights are there!

bb


BOI, PDX, and GEG appear too. The Boise Airport said BOI-PAE is “delayed indefinitely” a few weeks ago in local media. I’d be surprised if this route sticks. I can’t speak for the others.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2297
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:27 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
WN still isn’t very strong in the Northwest so operating out of another airport in Seattle doesn’t make much sense.

WN is actually very strong in the PNW from a brand recognition standpoint.

From a market perspective, they used to be incredibly strong, however retreated after suspending their intra-PNW routes.

They used to do:
GEG-PDX/SEA/SLC
SLC-BOI/RNO/SEA/PDX
PDX-BOI/RNO
BOI-SEA/RNO
RNO-SEA

Recall that they originally had planned to serve PAE with flights to both OAK and LAS. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually serve PAE one day.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 409
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:10 pm

USAirALB wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
WN still isn’t very strong in the Northwest so operating out of another airport in Seattle doesn’t make much sense.

WN is actually very strong in the PNW from a brand recognition standpoint.

From a market perspective, they used to be incredibly strong, however retreated after suspending their intra-PNW routes.

They used to do:
GEG-PDX/SEA/SLC
SLC-BOI/RNO/SEA/PDX
PDX-BOI/RNO
BOI-SEA/RNO
RNO-SEA

Recall that they originally had planned to serve PAE with flights to both OAK and LAS. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually serve PAE one day.


Cancelling a ton of routes isn’t really an indication they’re “strong” in the Northwest. Really confused by this rebuttal.

And WN gave up slots at PAE. Again, not sure what you’re getting at here.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5236
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:38 pm

SANFan wrote:
Back to the PAE situation. Hold on a second here. First, there is NO service on AS from PAE to anywhere (including PHX) right now; PHX & LAS begin Aug 1 yet no other routes return.

The article linked above was written in mid-May, at the height of the COVID effects on AS and other cx. There was no mention of the airport construction coming up which would close the terminal and temporarily drop all service to Paine Field. The article made it sound like AS was perhaps just going to give up on PAE service.

I don't know what network planning in SEA is planning for PAE but I really can't foresee them cancelling all but 2 routes from PAE.

Now all of a sudden people here are trying to figure out which airlines are going to swoop in and replace AS (and UA?) ! I think we need to take a step back, take a deep breath and chill for a few weeks. I really doubt that AS is going anywhere and will bring their service at PAE back as soon as (a) the airport apron work is finished, and (b) the traffic at the airport reaches levels that support that service. (I assume UA will do the same.) The COVID recovery is really just starting and PAE is, after all, a pretty small airport near a very big airport!

The question I asked up-thread was why only a single flight to PHX and to LAS on August 1 by AS. (And again I say, PHX? In August?) Maybe AS is "trying the new apron out" at PAE with just a couple of flights? They can't even operate a single flight to SAN or LA or SJC? (I believe these markets all saw 2 daily flights pre-COVID.) Can all the CA markets have failed miserably from PAE for AAG?

bb


https://www.heraldnet.com/business/pain ... p-repairs/

Here is the article about PAE construction.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5236
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:41 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:

Well PAE also stated they have a business to run. The covid impact will force them to take back all unused slots from United and AlaskaAir. And seek out other airlines to service the airport.
They need the revenue to pay the bills and can't gamble on United or AlaskaAir maybe coming back some day.

Spirit, Frontier ,Southwest and JetBlue are all in prime position to jump in and gain marketshare.

AlaskaAir I think is going to be forced into defending it's turf in this pandemic should a strong player takes PAE up on getting slots.

Flyguy
This is some pretty fanciful thinking. These slots weren't a hot commodity before COVID.


Yeah, I don’t see how in the best of times when few were interested equates to more interest during the worst of times.

PAE will likely stay a small niche airport for AS frequent flyers at most. WN still isn’t very strong in the Northwest so operating out of another airport in Seattle doesn’t make much sense. JetBlue is likely mostly serving folks originating in the Northeast who won’t be familiar with “Everett”. I agree. This is “fanciful thinking”.


With only a handful of "slots" (something like 23, I can't remember), there's not that many opportunities. UA was already cutting SFO-PAE, but I had heard their DEN-PAE route was doing well. But overall, it was/is Alaska's airport.
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3641
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:58 pm

USAirALB wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
WN still isn’t very strong in the Northwest so operating out of another airport in Seattle doesn’t make much sense.

WN is actually very strong in the PNW from a brand recognition standpoint.

From a market perspective, they used to be incredibly strong, however retreated after suspending their intra-PNW routes.

They used to do:
GEG-PDX/SEA/SLC
SLC-BOI/RNO/SEA/PDX
PDX-BOI/RNO
BOI-SEA/RNO
RNO-SEA

Recall that they originally had planned to serve PAE with flights to both OAK and LAS. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually serve PAE one day.


As LAXBUR said, not really sure how highlighting a bunch of cancelled routes demonstrates the strength of WN in the Northwest. They gradually backed off SEA when they didn't get their way at BFI years ago and pulled the plug on PAE before the terminal opened up. They pulled their regional flights (GEG, BOI) years ago and also downsized at PDX. They certainly have brand recognition here (some of that can be credited to California transplants), but not on the level of AS or even DL.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1395
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:11 pm

AS just extended their schedule through the end of August, so anything beyond that is not a true schedule of what will be flown.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2297
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:50 am

LAXBUR wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
WN still isn’t very strong in the Northwest so operating out of another airport in Seattle doesn’t make much sense.

WN is actually very strong in the PNW from a brand recognition standpoint.

From a market perspective, they used to be incredibly strong, however retreated after suspending their intra-PNW routes.

They used to do:
GEG-PDX/SEA/SLC
SLC-BOI/RNO/SEA/PDX
PDX-BOI/RNO
BOI-SEA/RNO
RNO-SEA

Recall that they originally had planned to serve PAE with flights to both OAK and LAS. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually serve PAE one day.


Cancelling a ton of routes isn’t really an indication they’re “strong” in the Northwest. Really confused by this rebuttal.

And WN gave up slots at PAE. Again, not sure what you’re getting at here.

You said "still isn't" (implying that they are new to the market) and I was highlighting how they once were strong and still have said brand recognition...
Hence:
gunsontheroof wrote:
They certainly have brand recognition here
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3641
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:30 am

USAirALB wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
WN is actually very strong in the PNW from a brand recognition standpoint.

From a market perspective, they used to be incredibly strong, however retreated after suspending their intra-PNW routes.

They used to do:
GEG-PDX/SEA/SLC
SLC-BOI/RNO/SEA/PDX
PDX-BOI/RNO
BOI-SEA/RNO
RNO-SEA

Recall that they originally had planned to serve PAE with flights to both OAK and LAS. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually serve PAE one day.


Cancelling a ton of routes isn’t really an indication they’re “strong” in the Northwest. Really confused by this rebuttal.

And WN gave up slots at PAE. Again, not sure what you’re getting at here.

You said "still isn't" (implying that they are new to the market) and I was highlighting how they once were strong and still have said brand recognition...
Hence:
gunsontheroof wrote:
They certainly have brand recognition here


Well, that was LAXBUR that (correctly) said that, not me. Brand-familiarity doesn't always translate into market share...Southwest has tried to make inroads to the PNW market for decades and has never really been able to gain a foothold. Of course, a lot of that can be attributed to Alaska, who enjoy an unusually high level of customer loyalty for an airline and have retained their market share for several years amidst a buildup by a powerful rival.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3600
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:40 am

gunsontheroof wrote:
Well, that was LAXBUR that (correctly) said that, not me. Brand-familiarity doesn't always translate into market share...Southwest has tried to make inroads to the PNW market for decades and has never really been able to gain a foothold. Of course, a lot of that can be attributed to Alaska, who enjoy an unusually high level of customer loyalty for an airline and have retained their market share for several years amidst a buildup by a powerful rival.


PDX was the largest WN station in the Pacific Northwest in 2019, and WN carried more passengers out of PDX than it did out of SEA in 2019. WN also had 17.75% market share at PDX compared to only 6.44% market share at SEA, but AS's SEA hub is much bigger than its PDX hub and DL has a hub at SEA.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 409
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:22 pm

USAirALB wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
WN is actually very strong in the PNW from a brand recognition standpoint.

From a market perspective, they used to be incredibly strong, however retreated after suspending their intra-PNW routes.

They used to do:
GEG-PDX/SEA/SLC
SLC-BOI/RNO/SEA/PDX
PDX-BOI/RNO
BOI-SEA/RNO
RNO-SEA

Recall that they originally had planned to serve PAE with flights to both OAK and LAS. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually serve PAE one day.


Cancelling a ton of routes isn’t really an indication they’re “strong” in the Northwest. Really confused by this rebuttal.

And WN gave up slots at PAE. Again, not sure what you’re getting at here.

You said "still isn't" (implying that they are new to the market) and I was highlighting how they once were strong and still have said brand recognition...
Hence:
gunsontheroof wrote:
They certainly have brand recognition here


I’m not going to argue about your comprehension of “still isn’t”. And not sure what your argument is.

Anyways, as others have noted Southwest hasn’t done well in time in the Northwest; however you want to present it. Most of those routes you mentioned were from the Morris Air buyout anyways. It isn’t a knock against WN. Alaska’s FF program, schedule, and customer service keeps people in the Northwest engaged. WN adding a handful of flights to PAE won’t change that and that’s why they likely won’t do that. Again, they dropped out before they even started. WN can better take on Alaska in places like California. PAE would be a waste of time and money for WN.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5170
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:38 pm

This is an interesting article showing that AS cut back 20% of schedule close-in.
https://crankyflier.com/2020/06/30/alas ... k-in-july/

I assume that part of this is due to certain market not being open while other markets are showing declining demand due to recent COVID surges.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:39 pm

tphuang wrote:
This is an interesting article showing that AS cut back 20% of schedule close-in.
https://crankyflier.com/2020/06/30/alas ... k-in-july/
I assume that part of this is due to certain market not being open while other markets are showing declining demand due to recent COVID surges.

This is common practice these days around the industry is it not and AS is certainly no exception. For example, AS's Aug 1 schedule that is now out is perfectly viable the way it is. Using SAN as an example, since I just finished a turn sked for it, almost every flight of the 34-flight sked is listed as daily (two exceptions are PVR which is 3X weekly and a SEA flight operating 4X weekly to use that aircraft on the alternate days.) I expect as August approaches, some of the flights could be reduced to less than daily as the carrier studies booking data. Perhaps even a flight could be eliminated if necessary. This is what has happened over the last few months and IMO is to be expected.

Also, AS had many HI flights scheduled for July (as they do for August) and they removed most of the July ones as HI remained 'closed'. Apparently a new policy has been developed for August travel to and from Hawaii so I expect the flights WILL operate on AS. (Frequencies could be reduced from daily of course if necessary.)

bb
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5403
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:32 am

I wanted to post here that there are new flights appearing in Alaska's schedules today (and last night) but so far there's no announcement nor even a new OAG thread to post them on.

So far, I've found new SAN/PDX - CUN service beginning on 11/20; both routes are sub-daily and daylight flights operated with 738s. As of now, the flights all end around 4/11/21.

For those (others) of you into schedules and a/c deployment, etc., both of these planes at SAN and PDX are split with the new FLL service announced recently as part of the LAX-growth. (It doesn't appear that that announcement was even discussed on this thread.) In SAN, FLL is 3x weekly while CUN takes the remaining 4 days; in PDX, the FLL departure is 4x per week while their CUN flight is the other 3 days. Even the times are similar in each city, heck even the flight numbers are kind of similar.

Also, in March 2021, AS will inaugurate 2 more related routes: SAN and SJC to MSO. Both will fly daily on EMJs starting 3/11/21 and appear permanent. This is certainly the first daily service from SAN to MT that I'm aware of even though G4 flies once in a while, a couple days a week to BIL. I do not know SJC's history well enough to comment on that.

There may well be other new routes loaded in AS's schedules but at this point, anyone interested in them will have to look for them! I'm happy to do that for SAN but I'm not as young as I used to be so I'm limited in how much I can look thru...

Nice to see Alaska remaining on the move!

bb
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4931
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:34 am

AS needs to get e175s on ENA and HOM before FLOAT launches
 
ytib
Posts: 569
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:58 am

32andBelow wrote:
AS needs to get e175s on ENA and HOM before FLOAT launches


I don't see that happening. With no TSA at either of those it would be too much of a hassle to bring that in there like they do in Cold Bay. Also can the runways even handle a E175?

I'm sure the locals would love having that type of service though.
318, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 388, 707, 717, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73Q, 735, 73G, 738, 7M8, 739, 752, 753, 742, 74L, 744, 762, 763, 772, 77L, 77W, 789, 142, CN1, CR2, CR7, DC8, DH2, DH8, D8Q, D10, D95, EM2, ER3, ER4, E70, 100, J31, M11, M83, M88, M90, SF3
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4931
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:01 am

ytib wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
AS needs to get e175s on ENA and HOM before FLOAT launches


I don't see that happening. With no TSA at either of those it would be too much of a hassle to bring that in there like they do in Cold Bay. Also can the runways even handle a E175?

I'm sure the locals would love having that type of service though.

yes they are routinely used for anc alternates. They both have way more enplanements than AKN and DLG which they took year round already
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:25 am

SANFan wrote:
I do not know SJC's history well enough to comment on that.

I believe this is indeed the first flight between SJC and Montana.

AS has also added SJC-GEG and RDM, starting next March. GEG is currently served from WN and has been done by AS in the past (last with QX Q400s which ended in Jan 2011). I believe RDM was briefly served in 1995 by Reno Air (at least that's what I saw on a route map).
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
Chugach
Posts: 1329
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:50 am

ytib wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
AS needs to get e175s on ENA and HOM before FLOAT launches


I don't see that happening. With no TSA at either of those it would be too much of a hassle to bring that in there like they do in Cold Bay. Also can the runways even handle a E175?

I'm sure the locals would love having that type of service though.


Kenai and Homer both have more runway than most other airports AS serves in Alaska. Off the top of my head...WRG, PSG, GST, SIT, DLG, OTZ, BET, SCC, and I believe OME and BRW.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4931
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:05 am

Chugach wrote:
ytib wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
AS needs to get e175s on ENA and HOM before FLOAT launches


I don't see that happening. With no TSA at either of those it would be too much of a hassle to bring that in there like they do in Cold Bay. Also can the runways even handle a E175?

I'm sure the locals would love having that type of service though.


Kenai and Homer both have more runway than most other airports AS serves in Alaska. Off the top of my head...WRG, PSG, GST, SIT, DLG, OTZ, BET, SCC, and I believe OME and BRW.

There’s absolutely no reason for AS to retain their gentleman’s agreements now that penair and ravn are dead. Time to take the venture boys out
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 875
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:06 am

I wonder what it takes to petition for TSA services at airports like Homer and Kenai?
 
ytib
Posts: 569
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:43 pm

Chugach wrote:
ytib wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
AS needs to get e175s on ENA and HOM before FLOAT launches


I don't see that happening. With no TSA at either of those it would be too much of a hassle to bring that in there like they do in Cold Bay. Also can the runways even handle a E175?

I'm sure the locals would love having that type of service though.


Kenai and Homer both have more runway than most other airports AS serves in Alaska. Off the top of my head...WRG, PSG, GST, SIT, DLG, OTZ, BET, SCC, and I believe OME and BRW.


It is not runway length which would be the concern but weight limits on the pavement. I just checked and they could handle the heavier planes with a PCN which is equal to or better than WRG or YAK.
318, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 388, 707, 717, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73Q, 735, 73G, 738, 7M8, 739, 752, 753, 742, 74L, 744, 762, 763, 772, 77L, 77W, 789, 142, CN1, CR2, CR7, DC8, DH2, DH8, D8Q, D10, D95, EM2, ER3, ER4, E70, 100, J31, M11, M83, M88, M90, SF3
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4931
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:17 pm

I’ve seen NAC 737s in ENA and HOM.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1329
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:28 pm

ytib wrote:
Chugach wrote:
ytib wrote:

I don't see that happening. With no TSA at either of those it would be too much of a hassle to bring that in there like they do in Cold Bay. Also can the runways even handle a E175?

I'm sure the locals would love having that type of service though.


Kenai and Homer both have more runway than most other airports AS serves in Alaska. Off the top of my head...WRG, PSG, GST, SIT, DLG, OTZ, BET, SCC, and I believe OME and BRW.


It is not runway length which would be the concern but weight limits on the pavement. I just checked and they could handle the heavier planes with a PCN which is equal to or better than WRG or YAK.


Kenai sees 737’s from time to time when the wind shear at ANC causes diversions.

The bigger issue is TSA. I’d be surprised if ENA isn’t at least on AS’ radar. It’s the biggest market in Alaska they don’t serve, and a bigger market than many of their existing Alaska destinations, but it seems like they are waiting to see what happens with Zombie Ravn first. HOM is a lot smaller than ENA but could still handle AS service. I travel to ENA in particular with some frequency from the lower 48, and losing connecting options on Ravn hurts big time. Grant Aviation is ok for local traffic but with no interline at ANC doesn’t really cut it for most people needing to get beyond ANC. AS getting into the Kenai Peninsula would be a huge boost.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4931
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:35 pm

Chugach wrote:
ytib wrote:
Chugach wrote:

Kenai and Homer both have more runway than most other airports AS serves in Alaska. Off the top of my head...WRG, PSG, GST, SIT, DLG, OTZ, BET, SCC, and I believe OME and BRW.


It is not runway length which would be the concern but weight limits on the pavement. I just checked and they could handle the heavier planes with a PCN which is equal to or better than WRG or YAK.


Kenai sees 737’s from time to time when the wind shear at ANC causes diversions.

The bigger issue is TSA. I’d be surprised if ENA isn’t at least on AS’ radar. It’s the biggest market in Alaska they don’t serve, and a bigger market than many of their existing Alaska destinations, but it seems like they are waiting to see what happens with Zombie Ravn first. HOM is a lot smaller than ENA but could still handle AS service. I travel to ENA in particular with some frequency from the lower 48, and losing connecting options on Ravn hurts big time. Grant Aviation is ok for local traffic but with no interline at ANC doesn’t really cut it for most people needing to get beyond ANC. AS getting into the Kenai Peninsula would be a huge boost.

I think homer could support it but ENA seems like an absolute no brainer. While it is a very short flight (it would probably be less than 10 minutes on an e175, it’s about a 2+ hour drive and more in the winter.
 
User avatar
NameOmitted
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:59 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:42 pm

32andBelow wrote:
I think homer could support it but ENA seems like an absolute no brainer. While it is a very short flight (it would probably be less than 10 minutes on an e175, it’s about a 2+ hour drive and more in the winter.

It's a 2+ hour drive from Girdwood some summers.
How's about an RV park and ride at ENA?
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4931
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:46 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I think homer could support it but ENA seems like an absolute no brainer. While it is a very short flight (it would probably be less than 10 minutes on an e175, it’s about a 2+ hour drive and more in the winter.

It's a 2+ hour drive from Girdwood some summers.
How's about an RV park and ride at ENA?

I think AQY would be a little tough!!!
 
Chugach
Posts: 1329
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:46 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Chugach wrote:
ytib wrote:

It is not runway length which would be the concern but weight limits on the pavement. I just checked and they could handle the heavier planes with a PCN which is equal to or better than WRG or YAK.


Kenai sees 737’s from time to time when the wind shear at ANC causes diversions.

The bigger issue is TSA. I’d be surprised if ENA isn’t at least on AS’ radar. It’s the biggest market in Alaska they don’t serve, and a bigger market than many of their existing Alaska destinations, but it seems like they are waiting to see what happens with Zombie Ravn first. HOM is a lot smaller than ENA but could still handle AS service. I travel to ENA in particular with some frequency from the lower 48, and losing connecting options on Ravn hurts big time. Grant Aviation is ok for local traffic but with no interline at ANC doesn’t really cut it for most people needing to get beyond ANC. AS getting into the Kenai Peninsula would be a huge boost.

I think homer could support it but ENA seems like an absolute no brainer. While it is a very short flight (it would probably be less than 10 minutes on an e175, it’s about a 2+ hour drive and more in the winter.


More like a 3 hour drive, and I’ve had my share of “unforgettable” experiences on that damn road between Anchorage and Kenai, just like anybody else who has ever spent time up there. There’s a reason why Ravn had so many ANC-ENA flights every day.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4931
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:55 pm

Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Chugach wrote:

Kenai sees 737’s from time to time when the wind shear at ANC causes diversions.

The bigger issue is TSA. I’d be surprised if ENA isn’t at least on AS’ radar. It’s the biggest market in Alaska they don’t serve, and a bigger market than many of their existing Alaska destinations, but it seems like they are waiting to see what happens with Zombie Ravn first. HOM is a lot smaller than ENA but could still handle AS service. I travel to ENA in particular with some frequency from the lower 48, and losing connecting options on Ravn hurts big time. Grant Aviation is ok for local traffic but with no interline at ANC doesn’t really cut it for most people needing to get beyond ANC. AS getting into the Kenai Peninsula would be a huge boost.

I think homer could support it but ENA seems like an absolute no brainer. While it is a very short flight (it would probably be less than 10 minutes on an e175, it’s about a 2+ hour drive and more in the winter.


More like a 3 hour drive, and I’ve had my share of “unforgettable” experiences on that damn road between Anchorage and Kenai, just like anybody else who has ever spent time up there. There’s a reason why Ravn had so many ANC-ENA flights every day.

The moral thing to do would be to end float Alaska before it drags people along for another year.
  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 11

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos