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32andBelow
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:10 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Stay tuned for news today. Nothing huge, but good news nonetheless.

Float Alaska is a disaster. You guys need to get on ENA and HOM ASAP
 
iflykpdx
Posts: 271
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:39 pm

Ishrion wrote:


Neat, maybe AS is hedging their bets that west coast winter travelers won't have Hawaii as an option this year and will look eastward instead?
Airport Management - UND
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:36 pm

Ishrion wrote:

Hot damn! This is great news as AS chases the leisure travelers to the ski slopes this winter.

SAN now has ski routes to HDN, JAC (and SLC if that is to remain a winter-only route); it was disappointing when MMH was dropped but I feel that was more of an operational move and that AS has more than made up for that. I'm very pleased that San Diegans are apparently supporting these ski runs and wonder which routes might be next? SUN, EGE, or ???

The fact that SAN-JAC will be offered 5x weekly is very encouraging. I wonder if this service is going to be partly subsidized by JAC ski interests?

The strictly business-oriented routes from SAN such as EWR & BOS -- particularly during the winter months where few leisure travelers have any interest in going to big cities on the east coast -- are still on the back burner and I certainly can't fault AS for that. Their MO of going after new leisure markets this winter is much more sensible and seems to be a working strategy. SAN's already seen added (new) service to CUN, FLL, MSO, SBA and now JAC and I think that's terrific! Wow!

Nice move Alaska!

bb
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:52 pm

SAN-SLC is returning on December 17th, as well as the already mentioned LAX- SLC route.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:59 pm

iflykpdx wrote:
Ishrion wrote:


Neat, maybe AS is hedging their bets that west coast winter travelers won't have Hawaii as an option this year and will look eastward instead?


I wouldn't even call it hedging a Hawaii bet. There's plenty of capacity not running West Coast/Midwest/East Coast to provide aircraft and crew for ski routes. Ski routes have typically provided good (if very seasonal) yields.
 
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452QX
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:16 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
iflykpdx wrote:
Ishrion wrote:


Neat, maybe AS is hedging their bets that west coast winter travelers won't have Hawaii as an option this year and will look eastward instead?


I wouldn't even call it hedging a Hawaii bet. There's plenty of capacity not running West Coast/Midwest/East Coast to provide aircraft and crew for ski routes. Ski routes have typically provided good (if very seasonal) yields.


In this case all of the JAC routes will be operated by SkyWest on the E175
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:19 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
SAN-SLC is returning on December 17th, as well as the already mentioned LAX- SLC route.

Correct. What I meant was IF SAN-SLC runs only for the winter, then I would call it yet another ski-route. As of right now, however, the double-daily SAN-SLC flights are shown on AS's schedules as running continually all the way thru their open booking window, ending July 24, 2021! If that holds true, then SAN-SLC is not just a winter seasonal ski route but another returned permanent year-round route. (Which I think it should be.) I've been monitoring the 2021 schedules for quite some time and SAN-SLC continues to be shown.

My suspicion is that AS network planners have left the route bookable thru next summer to see how it does; if the bookings are healthy, then hopefully it stays permanently.

AS is also adding SAN-MSO but since it doesn't start until mid-to-late March, I don't consider that another ski route either. I'm sure that will be a permanent addition to the network and will certainly be used by skiers during winter 2021-22's ski season.

bb
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:33 pm

Interesting that DL seems to have recently abandoned at least 3 ski markets this upcoming season (ASE, HDN and MTJ) while competitors like AS, B6 and even WN have been busy adding service to such places. Fascinating to see the divergent approaches airlines are taking these days!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
Chugach
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:37 pm

32andBelow wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Stay tuned for news today. Nothing huge, but good news nonetheless.

Float Alaska is a disaster. You guys need to get on ENA and HOM ASAP


I’ll second that. ENA in particular is a missed opportunity. I know there’s the issue of getting TSA there but it’s easily the biggest AK market not served by AS, and bigger than most of the existing rural Alaska destinations.

Nice to see JAC added. It’s always seemed like an obvious hole (no pun intended) in the AS network.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:31 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
iflykpdx wrote:
Ishrion wrote:


Neat, maybe AS is hedging their bets that west coast winter travelers won't have Hawaii as an option this year and will look eastward instead?


I wouldn't even call it hedging a Hawaii bet. There's plenty of capacity not running West Coast/Midwest/East Coast to provide aircraft and crew for ski routes. Ski routes have typically provided good (if very seasonal) yields.


I don't think its Hawaii, but rather international (European) travel.
 
gmcc
Posts: 347
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:36 pm

Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Stay tuned for news today. Nothing huge, but good news nonetheless.

Float Alaska is a disaster. You guys need to get on ENA and HOM ASAP


I’ll second that. ENA in particular is a missed opportunity. I know there’s the issue of getting TSA there but it’s easily the biggest AK market not served by AS, and bigger than most of the existing rural Alaska destinations.

Nice to see JAC added. It’s always seemed like an obvious hole (no pun intended) in the AS network.


I suspect AS won't be opening up any new Alaska routes till they get the horizon in Alaska 2.0 experiment up and stable. If float sinks and leaves people stranded however ,they might act.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2013
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:39 pm

SANFan wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

Hot damn! This is great news as AS chases the leisure travelers to the ski slopes this winter.

SAN now has ski routes to HDN, JAC (and SLC if that is to remain a winter-only route); it was disappointing when MMH was dropped but I feel that was more of an operational move and that AS has more than made up for that. I'm very pleased that San Diegans are apparently supporting these ski runs and wonder which routes might be next? SUN, EGE, or ???

The fact that SAN-JAC will be offered 5x weekly is very encouraging. I wonder if this service is going to be partly subsidized by JAC ski interests?

The strictly business-oriented routes from SAN such as EWR & BOS -- particularly during the winter months where few leisure travelers have any interest in going to big cities on the east coast -- are still on the back burner and I certainly can't fault AS for that. Their MO of going after new leisure markets this winter is much more sensible and seems to be a working strategy. SAN's already seen added (new) service to CUN, FLL, MSO, SBA and now JAC and I think that's terrific! Wow!

Nice move Alaska!

bb

Local politics in Mammoth want all service moved to Bishop. I believe it's part of country Vote this November.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:08 pm

Lots of money in Jackson...big summer AND winter destination. Smart move and long overdue from SEA.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:49 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
Lots of money in Jackson...big summer AND winter destination. Smart move and long overdue from SEA.


Right now, it's advertised as a ski destination, but I can see JAC being a year-round service from SEA.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:50 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
Lots of money in Jackson...big summer AND winter destination. Smart move and long overdue from SEA.


Right now, it's advertised as a ski destination, but I can see JAC being a year-round service from SEA.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:52 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Stay tuned for news today. Nothing huge, but good news nonetheless.


Today's announcement is huge for some of the ski junkies in the West and good for Wyoming. Is this Alaska's first time into WY?
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:13 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Stay tuned for news today. Nothing huge, but good news nonetheless.


Today's announcement is huge for some of the ski junkies in the West and good for Wyoming. Is this Alaska's first time into WY?


I believe this is the first time AAG has served Wyoming. This market addition is a continuation of the belief that when people finally do feel comfortable traveling again, leisure will be the primary driver. This is where adds like RSW and JAC make sense for AAG.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:00 am

Long ago QX flew I believe from SLC-JAC.
 
stapleton
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:02 am

Alaska/Horizon previously served Jackson Hole (JAC) from SEA with a stop in Bozeman (BZN). I believe If I remember correctly this was with the Dornier 328 in the mid to late 90s. The flight cross connected in Bozeman with the Northwest departure to MSP when they code shared. It was fairly short lived.
 
wedgetail737
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:08 am

EA CO AS wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Stay tuned for news today. Nothing huge, but good news nonetheless.


Today's announcement is huge for some of the ski junkies in the West and good for Wyoming. Is this Alaska's first time into WY?


I believe this is the first time AAG has served Wyoming. This market addition is a continuation of the belief that when people finally do feel comfortable traveling again, leisure will be the primary driver. This is where adds like RSW and JAC make sense for AAG.


Well in our eyes, that's big news. I hope they return to COS sometime fairly soon. I'm excited about the prospects of SEA-MRY.
 
SuperDash
Posts: 357
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:36 am

stapleton wrote:
Alaska/Horizon previously served Jackson Hole (JAC) from SEA with a stop in Bozeman (BZN). I believe If I remember correctly this was with the Dornier 328 in the mid to late 90s. The flight cross connected in Bozeman with the Northwest departure to MSP when they code shared. It was fairly short lived.


Correct....it was the 328 2x per day and was designed to connect with NW's MSP flight at BZN. QX also flew BOI-JAC 1x/day with a Dash 8. BOI actually lasted longer than BZN. But unfortunately, JAC didn't last that long, but I am super excited to see Alaska return to JAC.
 
tiptoe42
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:24 pm

Maybe it’s Skywest adding Jackson Hole for Alaska, at this point maybe they should rename Alaska Airlines to Horizon/Skywest Express.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:31 pm

tiptoe42 wrote:
Maybe it’s Skywest adding Jackson Hole for Alaska, at this point maybe they should rename Alaska Airlines to Horizon/Skywest Express.


This tired old argument again? Come on; the last time JAC was served was by QX, not mainline, and QX/OO flying is generally used to either serve markets that can’t support mainline, or with the intent of trying to develop it for mainline down the road.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
tiptoe42
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:27 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:52 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
EA CO AS wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:
Maybe it’s Skywest adding Jackson Hole for Alaska, at this point maybe they should rename Alaska Airlines to Horizon/Skywest Express.


This tired old argument again? Come on; the last time JAC was served was by QX, not mainline, and QX/OO flying is generally used to either serve markets that can’t support mainline, or with the intent of trying to develop it for mainline down the road.


That’s a cute line management likes to use about developing routes for mainline, almost as believable as Horizon doing RNP certification into southeast Alaska just in case they need those airports as an alternate.
 
airlinepeanuts
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:16 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:22 pm

tiptoe42 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
EA CO AS wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:
Maybe it’s Skywest adding Jackson Hole for Alaska, at this point maybe they should rename Alaska Airlines to Horizon/Skywest Express.


This tired old argument again? Come on; the last time JAC was served was by QX, not mainline, and QX/OO flying is generally used to either serve markets that can’t support mainline, or with the intent of trying to develop it for mainline down the road.


That’s a cute line management likes to use about developing routes for mainline, almost as believable as Horizon doing RNP certification into southeast Alaska just in case they need those airports as an alternate.


Yep, certainly worked to Develop GUC, MMH, LWS and countless other QX routes.....oh wait.

On a side note, I’d love to see AS start up SEA-RAP
 
32andBelow
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:47 pm

tiptoe42 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
EA CO AS wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:
Maybe it’s Skywest adding Jackson Hole for Alaska, at this point maybe they should rename Alaska Airlines to Horizon/Skywest Express.


This tired old argument again? Come on; the last time JAC was served was by QX, not mainline, and QX/OO flying is generally used to either serve markets that can’t support mainline, or with the intent of trying to develop it for mainline down the road.


That’s a cute line management likes to use about developing routes for mainline, almost as believable as Horizon doing RNP certification into southeast Alaska just in case they need those airports as an alternate.

Yah lol. They even did it into Yakutat which has an ILS
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:02 pm

tiptoe42 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
EA CO AS wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:
Maybe it’s Skywest adding Jackson Hole for Alaska, at this point maybe they should rename Alaska Airlines to Horizon/Skywest Express.


This tired old argument again? Come on; the last time JAC was served was by QX, not mainline, and QX/OO flying is generally used to either serve markets that can’t support mainline, or with the intent of trying to develop it for mainline down the road.


That’s a cute line management likes to use about developing routes for mainline, almost as believable as Horizon doing RNP certification into southeast Alaska just in case they need those airports as an alternate.


I honestly don’t give a rodent’s posterior who does the flying for AAG as long as it broadens the network - which supports and expands mainline - and is consistently profitable, which benefits all employees. Being solely focused on whose metal flies it is shortsighted.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:44 pm

I know it doesn't seem like it now, but I think AS still has plenty of destination opportunities. I'm still pulling for some of the smaller destinations like SCK, BFL and a return to COS. I think AS has done an excellent job of the using the E-175's as a way to develop markets, especially pre-COVID. Give it time, I think we'll see mainline return to OKC, OMA, MCI, SBA etc. And mainline attempts to places like MSO, BZN and FAT.
 
tiptoe42
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:27 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:19 am

EA CO AS wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
EA CO AS wrote:

This tired old argument again? Come on; the last time JAC was served was by QX, not mainline, and QX/OO flying is generally used to either serve markets that can’t support mainline, or with the intent of trying to develop it for mainline down the road.


That’s a cute line management likes to use about developing routes for mainline, almost as believable as Horizon doing RNP certification into southeast Alaska just in case they need those airports as an alternate.


I honestly don’t give a rodent’s posterior who does the flying for AAG as long as it broadens the network - which supports and expands mainline - and is consistently profitable, which benefits all employees. Being solely focused on whose metal flies it is shortsighted.


So your fine with Alaska and Horizon parking airplanes and laying off employees while flying is outsourced to Skywest? Personally I believe all the flying should be conducted by mainline including the q400s, obviously that will never happen, but having Skywest doing flying while our fellow employees are losing their jobs is a bit of a slap in the face.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5280
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:46 am

tiptoe42 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]

That’s a cute line management likes to use about developing routes for mainline, almost as believable as Horizon doing RNP certification into southeast Alaska just in case they need those airports as an alternate.


I honestly don’t give a rodent’s posterior who does the flying for AAG as long as it broadens the network - which supports and expands mainline - and is consistently profitable, which benefits all employees. Being solely focused on whose metal flies it is shortsighted.


So your fine with Alaska and Horizon parking airplanes and laying off employees while flying is outsourced to Skywest? Personally I believe all the flying should be conducted by mainline including the q400s, obviously that will never happen, but having Skywest doing flying while our fellow employees are losing their jobs is a bit of a slap in the face.


Skywest really taking over ALL of the flying for AS? Somehow, I don't think that's happening. I see a LOT of QX E-175's flying around, as well as AS mainline aircraft. Obviously not as many as pre-COVID. The new JAC flights is just a very small part of the overall picture.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:05 am

tiptoe42 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]

That’s a cute line management likes to use about developing routes for mainline, almost as believable as Horizon doing RNP certification into southeast Alaska just in case they need those airports as an alternate.


I honestly don’t give a rodent’s posterior who does the flying for AAG as long as it broadens the network - which supports and expands mainline - and is consistently profitable, which benefits all employees. Being solely focused on whose metal flies it is shortsighted.


So your fine with Alaska and Horizon parking airplanes and laying off employees while flying is outsourced to Skywest? Personally I believe all the flying should be conducted by mainline including the q400s, obviously that will never happen, but having Skywest doing flying while our fellow employees are losing their jobs is a bit of a slap in the face.


Give it a rest. Do you really think Alaska would rather be flying 76 passenger planes instead of their larger mainline planes? It's simply a reflection of what's going on in the world today. If this is what it takes to get mainline back to a better place then it's what has to happen. As for QX vs OO - why should AS people have some allegiance to QX? By your logic how is it better that QX takes flying that was once mainline instead of OO? Either way, AS mainline loses flying to a regional airline. Whether it's QX or OO doesn't make it feel any better.
 
tiptoe42
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:27 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:59 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

I honestly don’t give a rodent’s posterior who does the flying for AAG as long as it broadens the network - which supports and expands mainline - and is consistently profitable, which benefits all employees. Being solely focused on whose metal flies it is shortsighted.


So your fine with Alaska and Horizon parking airplanes and laying off employees while flying is outsourced to Skywest? Personally I believe all the flying should be conducted by mainline including the q400s, obviously that will never happen, but having Skywest doing flying while our fellow employees are losing their jobs is a bit of a slap in the face.


Skywest really taking over ALL of the flying for AS? Somehow, I don't think that's happening. I see a LOT of QX E-175's flying around, as well as AS mainline aircraft. Obviously not as many as pre-COVID. The new JAC flights is just a very small part of the overall picture.


No Skywest is not taking all of the flying, however the percentage that horizon and Skywest perform has been steadily growing even before the impact of Covid.
 
tiptoe42
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:27 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:11 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

I honestly don’t give a rodent’s posterior who does the flying for AAG as long as it broadens the network - which supports and expands mainline - and is consistently profitable, which benefits all employees. Being solely focused on whose metal flies it is shortsighted.


So your fine with Alaska and Horizon parking airplanes and laying off employees while flying is outsourced to Skywest? Personally I believe all the flying should be conducted by mainline including the q400s, obviously that will never happen, but having Skywest doing flying while our fellow employees are losing their jobs is a bit of a slap in the face.


Give it a rest. Do you really think Alaska would rather be flying 76 passenger planes instead of their larger mainline planes? It's simply a reflection of what's going on in the world today. If this is what it takes to get mainline back to a better place then it's what has to happen. As for QX vs OO - why should AS people have some allegiance to QX? By your logic how is it better that QX takes flying that was once mainline instead of OO? Either way, AS mainline loses flying to a regional airline. Whether it's QX or OO doesn't make it feel any better.


Alaska management is in love with E-175 and has been considering adding larger embraers to the fleet, care to guess what airplanes those would replace and who would fly them?
No, Alaska employees as a whole do not have an allegiance to Horizon, as I stated before I think Alaska Airlines should perform all of its own flying with its own employees regardless of aircraft type, the regional airlines in their present form exist to exert downward pressure on the pay and benefits of employees at the mainline carrier. Having said all that, regionals are not going away certainly at least not out of Alaska’s network, and that being the case I’d prefer to see Horizon, a wholly owned subsidiary of Alaska, do the flying as opposed to outsourcing it further to a company that is also supporting the very airlines Alaska competes against.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:29 pm

tiptoe42 wrote:
I think Alaska Airlines should perform all of its own flying with its own employees regardless of aircraft type, the regional airlines in their present form exist to exert downward pressure on the pay and benefits of employees at the mainline carrier.


From a practical perspective, how world this work? So your think AS pilots/crew world be willing to accept a contact that allowed for enough of a rate differential to make regional aircraft economically viable, and is so, how would that improve the situation for current mainline employees?
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 412
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:47 pm

I’m all for open discussion on employment issues in the US; but does it have to be on a “network” thread?
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5280
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:17 pm

tiptoe42 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:

So your fine with Alaska and Horizon parking airplanes and laying off employees while flying is outsourced to Skywest? Personally I believe all the flying should be conducted by mainline including the q400s, obviously that will never happen, but having Skywest doing flying while our fellow employees are losing their jobs is a bit of a slap in the face.


Give it a rest. Do you really think Alaska would rather be flying 76 passenger planes instead of their larger mainline planes? It's simply a reflection of what's going on in the world today. If this is what it takes to get mainline back to a better place then it's what has to happen. As for QX vs OO - why should AS people have some allegiance to QX? By your logic how is it better that QX takes flying that was once mainline instead of OO? Either way, AS mainline loses flying to a regional airline. Whether it's QX or OO doesn't make it feel any better.


Alaska management is in love with E-175 and has been considering adding larger embraers to the fleet, care to guess what airplanes those would replace and who would fly them?
No, Alaska employees as a whole do not have an allegiance to Horizon, as I stated before I think Alaska Airlines should perform all of its own flying with its own employees regardless of aircraft type, the regional airlines in their present form exist to exert downward pressure on the pay and benefits of employees at the mainline carrier. Having said all that, regionals are not going away certainly at least not out of Alaska’s network, and that being the case I’d prefer to see Horizon, a wholly owned subsidiary of Alaska, do the flying as opposed to outsourcing it further to a company that is also supporting the very airlines Alaska competes against.


Didn't HP try this before and it failed? Because QX is a subsidiary of AS, doesn't QX's money eventually fall into Alaska AG's hands?
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5009
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:22 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

Give it a rest. Do you really think Alaska would rather be flying 76 passenger planes instead of their larger mainline planes? It's simply a reflection of what's going on in the world today. If this is what it takes to get mainline back to a better place then it's what has to happen. As for QX vs OO - why should AS people have some allegiance to QX? By your logic how is it better that QX takes flying that was once mainline instead of OO? Either way, AS mainline loses flying to a regional airline. Whether it's QX or OO doesn't make it feel any better.


Alaska management is in love with E-175 and has been considering adding larger embraers to the fleet, care to guess what airplanes those would replace and who would fly them?
No, Alaska employees as a whole do not have an allegiance to Horizon, as I stated before I think Alaska Airlines should perform all of its own flying with its own employees regardless of aircraft type, the regional airlines in their present form exist to exert downward pressure on the pay and benefits of employees at the mainline carrier. Having said all that, regionals are not going away certainly at least not out of Alaska’s network, and that being the case I’d prefer to see Horizon, a wholly owned subsidiary of Alaska, do the flying as opposed to outsourcing it further to a company that is also supporting the very airlines Alaska competes against.


Didn't HP try this before and it failed? Because QX is a subsidiary of AS, doesn't QX's money eventually fall into Alaska AG's hands?

Yah but AG makes more if Skywest can do it for less
 
toga998
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 25, 2020 8:09 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:55 pm

My first flight with AS will be tomorrow up to ANC. I am extremely excited as this is like new found territory!
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5280
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:16 pm

toga998 wrote:
My first flight with AS will be tomorrow up to ANC. I am extremely excited as this is like new found territory!


Very first flight on AS? My first flight on AS was back in 1980's on Seahawk 1 from OAK to SEA. Enjoy your flight!
 
d8s
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:43 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
EA CO AS wrote:

This tired old argument again? Come on; the last time JAC was served was by QX, not mainline, and QX/OO flying is generally used to either serve markets that can’t support mainline, or with the intent of trying to develop it for mainline down the road.


That’s a cute line management likes to use about developing routes for mainline, almost as believable as Horizon doing RNP certification into southeast Alaska just in case they need those airports as an alternate.


I honestly don’t give a rodent’s posterior who does the flying for AAG as long as it broadens the network - which supports and expands mainline - and is consistently profitable, which benefits all employees. Being solely focused on whose metal flies it is shortsighted.


As a Gold75K I am tired of booking a flight on AS mainline and having it changed to a QX/OO flight. Understandable some of the smaller cities might be QX/OO but management has infiltrated the entire route network with QX/OO. It is not the same level of service nor onboard product when this change happens.
 
oosnowrat
Posts: 210
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:55 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:12 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
I’m all for open discussion on employment issues in the US; but does it have to be on a “network” thread?


Agree. No new ground is going to be plowed here.

Does anybody have active & parked fleet numbers for AS, QX and OO's Alaska planes?
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5280
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:24 pm

d8s wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
tiptoe42 wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]

That’s a cute line management likes to use about developing routes for mainline, almost as believable as Horizon doing RNP certification into southeast Alaska just in case they need those airports as an alternate.


I honestly don’t give a rodent’s posterior who does the flying for AAG as long as it broadens the network - which supports and expands mainline - and is consistently profitable, which benefits all employees. Being solely focused on whose metal flies it is shortsighted.


As a Gold75K I am tired of booking a flight on AS mainline and having it changed to a QX/OO flight. Understandable some of the smaller cities might be QX/OO but management has infiltrated the entire route network with QX/OO. It is not the same level of service nor onboard product when this change happens.


Really? I almost prefer the E-175's over the mainline aircraft simply for the 1st class seat on the single side. All the times, I've flown on the E-175's, I haven't had too many shortcomings in service. But I guess that's just me...I guess I'm not that picky. What I found interesting in the past that the level of service on the Airbus airplanes seemed less than on the 737's. I'm interested to see how the service has diminished because of COVID.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:29 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
d8s wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

I honestly don’t give a rodent’s posterior who does the flying for AAG as long as it broadens the network - which supports and expands mainline - and is consistently profitable, which benefits all employees. Being solely focused on whose metal flies it is shortsighted.


As a Gold75K I am tired of booking a flight on AS mainline and having it changed to a QX/OO flight. Understandable some of the smaller cities might be QX/OO but management has infiltrated the entire route network with QX/OO. It is not the same level of service nor onboard product when this change happens.


Really? I almost prefer the E-175's over the mainline aircraft simply for the 1st class seat on the single side. All the times, I've flown on the E-175's, I haven't had too many shortcomings in service. But I guess that's just me...I guess I'm not that picky. What I found interesting in the past that the level of service on the Airbus airplanes seemed less than on the 737's. I'm interested to see how the service has diminished because of COVID.


I guess it is all preference but I too prefer the E-175 to mainline on shorter flights. I’ve found SkyWest flights attendants to be very nice in both F and Y. I’ve found the food offerings in First to be perfectly acceptable in First on the Embraers too.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15747
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:52 am

tiptoe42 wrote:
So your fine with Alaska and Horizon parking airplanes and laying off employees while flying is outsourced to Skywest?


I don't want to see a single AAG employee furloughed, but adding flying on OO metal that would perhaps not have happened otherwise keeps CSAs employed, Res agents employed, and so on.

So the question becomes, you're fine with seeing some AAG employees furloughed because flying needs to be mainline or not at all?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5280
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:26 am

LAXBUR wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
d8s wrote:

As a Gold75K I am tired of booking a flight on AS mainline and having it changed to a QX/OO flight. Understandable some of the smaller cities might be QX/OO but management has infiltrated the entire route network with QX/OO. It is not the same level of service nor onboard product when this change happens.


Really? I almost prefer the E-175's over the mainline aircraft simply for the 1st class seat on the single side. All the times, I've flown on the E-175's, I haven't had too many shortcomings in service. But I guess that's just me...I guess I'm not that picky. What I found interesting in the past that the level of service on the Airbus airplanes seemed less than on the 737's. I'm interested to see how the service has diminished because of COVID.


I guess it is all preference but I too prefer the E-175 to mainline on shorter flights. I’ve found SkyWest flights attendants to be very nice in both F and Y. I’ve found the food offerings in First to be perfectly acceptable in First on the Embraers too.


In my experience, I get the same kind of meals in 1st class on mainline, Skywest E-175's and QX E-175's.
 
User avatar
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3649
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:07 am

LAXBUR wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
d8s wrote:

As a Gold75K I am tired of booking a flight on AS mainline and having it changed to a QX/OO flight. Understandable some of the smaller cities might be QX/OO but management has infiltrated the entire route network with QX/OO. It is not the same level of service nor onboard product when this change happens.


Really? I almost prefer the E-175's over the mainline aircraft simply for the 1st class seat on the single side. All the times, I've flown on the E-175's, I haven't had too many shortcomings in service. But I guess that's just me...I guess I'm not that picky. What I found interesting in the past that the level of service on the Airbus airplanes seemed less than on the 737's. I'm interested to see how the service has diminished because of COVID.


I guess it is all preference but I too prefer the E-175 to mainline on shorter flights. I’ve found SkyWest flights attendants to be very nice in both F and Y. I’ve found the food offerings in First to be perfectly acceptable in First on the Embraers too.


I have limited experience to draw off of, but I'd agree. I've flown on the 175 twice, once with OO and once with QX (BUR-SJC, PAE-SJC, respectively) and didn't find the service to be lacking at all. The E jets are really comfortable, even for a taller fella like myself. I don't think I'd have an issue riding one on one of the longer flights in the network.

Great to see the adds to JAC, I suspect those should do well on a seasonal basis and maybe year-round down the road. Jackson Hole is gorgeous in the summer and not too far from Yellowstone.

I became a (very modest) shareholder in AS a few weeks ago, so I'll be watching them even more closely than before to see how they navigate this challenging environment. They've always been interesting to watch anyway, so that shouldn't be too hard!
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5009
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:25 am

gunsontheroof wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:

Really? I almost prefer the E-175's over the mainline aircraft simply for the 1st class seat on the single side. All the times, I've flown on the E-175's, I haven't had too many shortcomings in service. But I guess that's just me...I guess I'm not that picky. What I found interesting in the past that the level of service on the Airbus airplanes seemed less than on the 737's. I'm interested to see how the service has diminished because of COVID.


I guess it is all preference but I too prefer the E-175 to mainline on shorter flights. I’ve found SkyWest flights attendants to be very nice in both F and Y. I’ve found the food offerings in First to be perfectly acceptable in First on the Embraers too.


I have limited experience to draw off of, but I'd agree. I've flown on the 175 twice, once with OO and once with QX (BUR-SJC, PAE-SJC, respectively) and didn't find the service to be lacking at all. The E jets are really comfortable, even for a taller fella like myself. I don't think I'd have an issue riding one on one of the longer flights in the network.

Great to see the adds to JAC, I suspect those should do well on a seasonal basis and maybe year-round down the road. Jackson Hole is gorgeous in the summer and not too far from Yellowstone.

I became a (very modest) shareholder in AS a few weeks ago, so I'll be watching them even more closely than before to see how they navigate this challenging environment. They've always been interesting to watch anyway, so that shouldn't be too hard!

The only huge oversight on the e175s was no seat power. Kinda unacceptable imo.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1338
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:46 am

32andBelow wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:

I guess it is all preference but I too prefer the E-175 to mainline on shorter flights. I’ve found SkyWest flights attendants to be very nice in both F and Y. I’ve found the food offerings in First to be perfectly acceptable in First on the Embraers too.


I have limited experience to draw off of, but I'd agree. I've flown on the 175 twice, once with OO and once with QX (BUR-SJC, PAE-SJC, respectively) and didn't find the service to be lacking at all. The E jets are really comfortable, even for a taller fella like myself. I don't think I'd have an issue riding one on one of the longer flights in the network.

Great to see the adds to JAC, I suspect those should do well on a seasonal basis and maybe year-round down the road. Jackson Hole is gorgeous in the summer and not too far from Yellowstone.

I became a (very modest) shareholder in AS a few weeks ago, so I'll be watching them even more closely than before to see how they navigate this challenging environment. They've always been interesting to watch anyway, so that shouldn't be too hard!

The only huge oversight on the e175s was no seat power. Kinda unacceptable imo.


They have power in F. I’m a 75K and I love the E175’s. The upgrade ratio is much better than the 737’s and the service is pretty much the same. I’ve flown them in F on PDX-ORD and DAL-SEA and thought they were great flights.
 
User avatar
NameOmitted
Posts: 907
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:59 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:56 am

Can the E175 match the 737 for foul weather takeoff and landing?

I don't much care what they put me in, as long as it maintains a schedule through November weather.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5009
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:05 am

Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
gunsontheroof wrote:

I have limited experience to draw off of, but I'd agree. I've flown on the 175 twice, once with OO and once with QX (BUR-SJC, PAE-SJC, respectively) and didn't find the service to be lacking at all. The E jets are really comfortable, even for a taller fella like myself. I don't think I'd have an issue riding one on one of the longer flights in the network.

Great to see the adds to JAC, I suspect those should do well on a seasonal basis and maybe year-round down the road. Jackson Hole is gorgeous in the summer and not too far from Yellowstone.

I became a (very modest) shareholder in AS a few weeks ago, so I'll be watching them even more closely than before to see how they navigate this challenging environment. They've always been interesting to watch anyway, so that shouldn't be too hard!

The only huge oversight on the e175s was no seat power. Kinda unacceptable imo.


They have power in F. I’m a 75K and I love the E175’s. The upgrade ratio is much better than the 737’s and the service is pretty much the same. I’ve flown them in F on PDX-ORD and DAL-SEA and thought they were great flights.

Not having it in coach is a fail. It’s so engrained in their 737 product and I expect it now.

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