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reidar76
Posts: 529
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:55 pm

T4thH wrote:
When/after which delay airlines are allowed to cancel a contract?


It depends on the contract.

But it is unlikely that an airline would want to cancel a 737 MAX contract now. Boeing will have to pay dearly for late deliveries, and it will take them many years to catch up and again deliver 737s on time.
 
macc
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:02 am

No single order for Boeing in Jannuary, a first since the 1960ies, according to this article (german) in Austria’s derstandard.at:
https://www.derstandard.at/story/200011 ... uer-boeing

Not even a widebody order in for them.
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
 
Asiaflyer
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:14 am

Lagos based Green Africa Airways has signed a MoU with Airbus for 50 A220-300.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... a220s.html

Singapore – Green Africa Airways, Nigeria’s Lagos-based airline, has signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) for 50 A220-300 aircraft, one of the major orders to be placed globally for the A220 programme and the largest ever from the African continent.

Babawande Afolabi, Founder & CEO of Green Africa Airways said, “Together with Airbus, we are incredibly proud to announce the largest order ever for the A220 from the African continent. The Green Africa story is a story of entrepreneurial boldness, strategic foresight and an unwavering commitment to using the power of air travel to create a better future”.
 
JonesNL
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:57 am

Asiaflyer wrote:
Lagos based Green Africa Airways has signed a MoU with Airbus for 50 A220-300.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... a220s.html

Singapore – Green Africa Airways, Nigeria’s Lagos-based airline, has signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) for 50 A220-300 aircraft, one of the major orders to be placed globally for the A220 programme and the largest ever from the African continent.

Babawande Afolabi, Founder & CEO of Green Africa Airways said, “Together with Airbus, we are incredibly proud to announce the largest order ever for the A220 from the African continent. The Green Africa story is a story of entrepreneurial boldness, strategic foresight and an unwavering commitment to using the power of air travel to create a better future”.


What are they going to do with there MAX order?
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:31 am

JonesNL wrote:
What are they going to do with there MAX order?


Was this ever firmed?
 
JonesNL
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:47 am

Someone83 wrote:
JonesNL wrote:
What are they going to do with there MAX order?


Was this ever firmed?


50 firm and 50 options
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:54 am

JonesNL wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
JonesNL wrote:
What are they going to do with there MAX order?


Was this ever firmed?


50 firm and 50 options


Are you sure? I don’t see them listed as a customer on Boeing’s order page.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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JonesNL
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:06 pm

scbriml wrote:
JonesNL wrote:
Someone83 wrote:

Was this ever firmed?


50 firm and 50 options


Are you sure? I don’t see them listed as a customer on Boeing’s order page.


https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-12-21 ... X-aircraft

SEATTLE, Dec. 21, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing [NYSE:BA] and Lagos-based Green Africa Airways today announced a commitment for up to 100 737 MAX 8 aircraft, evenly split into 50 firm aircraft and 50 options, as the airline gears up to begin commercial operations.
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:16 pm

JonesNL wrote:

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-12-21 ... X-aircraft

SEATTLE, Dec. 21, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing [NYSE:BA] and Lagos-based Green Africa Airways today announced a commitment for up to 100 737 MAX 8 aircraft, evenly split into 50 firm aircraft and 50 options, as the airline gears up to begin commercial operations.


But can't see that "commitment" was ever firmed og booked as firmed in Boeing's order book
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:17 pm

JonesNL wrote:
scbriml wrote:
JonesNL wrote:

50 firm and 50 options


Are you sure? I don’t see them listed as a customer on Boeing’s order page.


https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-12-21 ... X-aircraft

SEATTLE, Dec. 21, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing [NYSE:BA] and Lagos-based Green Africa Airways today announced a commitment for up to 100 737 MAX 8 aircraft, evenly split into 50 firm aircraft and 50 options, as the airline gears up to begin commercial operations.


Yes, but that PR says the deal wasn’t finalised, and it still hasn’t been. As of today, Green Africa does not have a firm order for MAX and are not listed as a customer by Boeing.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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FluidFlow
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:19 pm

scbriml wrote:
JonesNL wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Are you sure? I don’t see them listed as a customer on Boeing’s order page.


https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2018-12-21 ... X-aircraft

SEATTLE, Dec. 21, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing [NYSE:BA] and Lagos-based Green Africa Airways today announced a commitment for up to 100 737 MAX 8 aircraft, evenly split into 50 firm aircraft and 50 options, as the airline gears up to begin commercial operations.


Yes, but that PR says the deal wasn’t finalised, and it still hasn’t been. As of today, Green Africa does not have a firm order for MAX and are not listed as a customer by Boeing.


If it was not firmed Boeing and Green Africa might be really happy with this outcome. No firm means no delayed deliveries so no penalties. This also means 50 less to produce what takes pressure of ramping up the production and Green Africa most probably will get the aircraft faster. Win-Win
 
mig17
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:22 pm

macc wrote:
No single order for Boeing in Jannuary, a first since the 1960ies, according to this article (german) in Austria’s derstandard.at:
https://www.derstandard.at/story/200011 ... uer-boeing

Not even a widebody order in for them.

Boeing bid are suffering from uncertainty. Boeing cash situation is in a vicious circle now even if they stoped the 737 line to reduce the bleeding. No more 737 deliveries mean no final or progress payment. 777-X delays also mean no final payment for now. Same with 787, reducing rate reduces cash entry. Right now no one except FR maybe is going to buy a max, so no downpayment either for the 737. The 777-X has lost "firm" orders lately so no more cash coming in. Even if Boeing has deep pocket, good line of credit and ultimatly the support of the US administration, it can be scary for an airline to comit and pay a downpayment for aircraft they may never receive if Boeing situation doesn't improve fast. Vicious circle it is until we know at least when the max will fly again.

I don't understand how the share is still "so high"
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Flying-Tiger
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:40 pm

mig17 wrote:
macc wrote:
No single order for Boeing in Jannuary, a first since the 1960ies, according to this article (german) in Austria’s derstandard.at:
https://www.derstandard.at/story/200011 ... uer-boeing

Not even a widebody order in for them.

Boeing bid are suffering from uncertainty. Boeing cash situation is in a vicious circle now even if they stoped the 737 line to reduce the bleeding. No more 737 deliveries mean no final or progress payment. 777-X delays also mean no final payment for now. Same with 787, reducing rate reduces cash entry. Right now no one except FR maybe is going to buy a max, so no downpayment either for the 737. The 777-X has lost "firm" orders lately so no more cash coming in. Even if Boeing has deep pocket, good line of credit and ultimatly the support of the US administration, it can be scary for an airline to comit and pay a downpayment for aircraft they may never receive if Boeing situation doesn't improve fast. Vicious circle it is until we know at least when the max will fly again.

I don't understand how the share is still "so high"


The coronavirus outbreak and the slowing in growth in the World economy are factors to be considered, too. As an airline CEO I´m currently not really in a position to explain to my supervisory board why I exactely NOW need to sign for an order. Most indicators point towards a contracting market on the orders side, and the likelyhood of many NTUs both at Airbus and Boeing grows by the day.

I expect that it will take months, if not years, to have the Chinese international network back in place simply due to demand not being there for a long time, and that at a time when all Chinese carrier were in a heavy growth mode. The effect will be that the overhang of capacity will be there for quite some time, and every plane delivered further will worsen the situation.

I think we´re in for a heavy deferral and cancellation year, and I wouldn´t be too surprised to see both Airbus and Boeing be close to net zero order intake minimum first half of this year, with some opportunity buyers coming along in second half, snapping up NTUs. Airbus might be slightly more prone to this effect, simply because Boeing isn´t really delivering at any volume currently anyway.
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:20 pm

ANA places a firm order for up to 20 787.

Per their press release, the Board has approved a firm order of 11 787-10 aircraft and 4 787-9 aircraft with an additional 5 787-9 options.

Discussion thread at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1441847
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:46 pm

Live from Toulouse: Aeroflot has been identified for 8 more A350-900s.

https://twitter.com/thatjohn/status/1233052610334203905

For those playing along at home, Aeroflot is no longer taking any A350-800s, and is also the “unidentified customer” for eight of the -900s in the backlog. This is, we are told, all very clear.
Good moaning!
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:10 pm

Just to be clear, the order was placed in 2017.
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:23 pm

Airbus Feb-2020 Order and delivery numbers are out.
https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html
No orders, nothing cancelled....so just nothing. After the excellent Jan-2020 comes the boring Feb-2020.

In February, Airbus delivered 55 aircraft to 35 customers. Single-aisle deliveries in February involved 40 A320 Family aircraft (composed of 37 NEO versions and three in the CEO configuration), plus four A220s. For Airbus widebody aircraft, seven A350 XWBs were provided in the A350-900 configuration and two A350 XWBs in the A350-1000 configuration; along with two A330 Family aircraft (composed of one NEO version and one CEO).
 
chiad
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:30 pm

T4thH wrote:
Airbus Feb-2020 Order and delivery numbers are out.
https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html
No orders, nothing cancelled....so just nothing. After the excellent Jan-2020 comes the boring Feb-2020.

In February, Airbus delivered 55 aircraft to 35 customers. Single-aisle deliveries in February involved 40 A320 Family aircraft (composed of 37 NEO versions and three in the CEO configuration), plus four A220s. For Airbus widebody aircraft, seven A350 XWBs were provided in the A350-900 configuration and two A350 XWBs in the A350-1000 configuration; along with two A330 Family aircraft (composed of one NEO version and one CEO).


Thanks T4thH.
I will be interesting to follow the orders during these corona times.
 
AndyW35
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:43 pm

Boeing January :- " We got no orders "

Airbus February :-" Hold my empty beer glass "
 
danipawa
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:05 am

And seems to be at least 3 more months like this...
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:27 am

danipawa wrote:
And seems to be at least 3 more months like this...
No, most likely we will see now several month even "much worse" and not just only "like this".

Pretty sure, soon we will see some airlines collapsing, and with these, we will see cancellations of orders, as just these airlines will stop to exist. If it is possible per contract, airlines will now defer orders or change firm orders to options, e.g. as LH has already done in Jan-2020. I do not know, after which delay time of delivery airlines will be able to cancel their order. The MAX is now near to one year grounded and total delay of deliveries for two years can be expected. Perhaps soon we will see a bunch of cancelled MAX orders (complete or in part) with the reason " too late expected delivery by Boeing".It will be an easy and fast way to get rid of orders, which will not any more be needed.
 
chiad
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:22 pm

February Boeing orders are out.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

Net order february: -25
 
LDRA
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:45 pm

The title of this thread should change to 2020 cancelations to reflect tge unfortunate reality
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:50 pm

Boeing orders and changes February 2020

Several conversions of the 737 MAX to the 787. ALC did this, Oman Air also did it, but it also formally cancelled their old 787-8 order. With 3 smaller unidentified orders the Air Canada and the JIA orders could also be conversions to the 787.

Orders:
ALC: 3x 787-9
FedEx: 1x 767-300F
Oman Air (SAOC): 4x 787-9
Unidentified Customer(s): 4x 787-10
Unidentified Customer(s): 3x 787-10
Unidentified Customer(s): 3x 787-9

Cancellations:
Air Canada: 11x 737 MAX
ALC: -9x 737 MAX
BBJ: -1x 737 MAX
JIA: -10x 737 MAX (Japan Investment Advisors)
Oman Air: -10x 737 MAX
Oman Air (SAOC): -4x 787-8 (was already cancelled in the ASC 606 Changes, net total = 0)
LATAM Airlines Brasil: -1x 777F (was already cancelled in the ASC 606 Changes, net total = 0)

Furthermore in the ASC 606 Changes -2 for the 737.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:26 pm

T4thH wrote:
danipawa wrote:
And seems to be at least 3 more months like this...
No, most likely we will see now several month even "much worse" and not just only "like this".

Pretty sure, soon we will see some airlines collapsing, and with these, we will see cancellations of orders, as just these airlines will stop to exist. If it is possible per contract, airlines will now defer orders or change firm orders to options, e.g. as LH has already done in Jan-2020. I do not know, after which delay time of delivery airlines will be able to cancel their order. The MAX is now near to one year grounded and total delay of deliveries for two years can be expected. Perhaps soon we will see a bunch of cancelled MAX orders (complete or in part) with the reason " too late expected delivery by Boeing".It will be an easy and fast way to get rid of orders, which will not any more be needed.


Of course, the elephant in the room is the 777X. I wonder which carrier will be the 1st to defer delivery.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Mar 11, 2020 7:45 pm

UA947 wrote:
(...) (even though there is some armchair general here stubbornly stating 30 or 28 over and over again).

Love this sentence. :D

And I like your user name too. My first ever flight on the Boeing 777 was twenty years ago on UA947. I still remember the flight crew announcement while boarding the aircraft at Amsterdam. "Welcome aboard United Airlines flight 947 with nonstop service to Washington."

The flight took a little over eight hours, of which seven hours were without any cloud cover and five hours were above land. For the first time in my life I looked down on Greenland. According to the pilot it was exceptionally clear that day. Our call sign United 947 heavy was mentioned every now and then on Channel 9. What a great travel experience it was!

Sorry for the off topic.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:54 am

oldJoe wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Why on Earth would Spirit order a more expensive model, when they could have just as easily ordered A220s straight away? :crazy:


Frankly I would expect Airbus to pitch the A220 instead of A319neo if somebody needs an aircraft of this size.

yes free up the possibiliteis open for a ACJ and go for the better A220 in that segment. If needed, go for the A 220-500 and here we go !

It could be the commonality in systems and parts to the , A319, A320 and Pilot, Cabin Crew, Ground and Maintenance training and provisioning and equipment?
A hell of a lot more goes into operating the airplanes than buying them. If you have a fleet of trucks? the model of the trucks could save you money if all of the trucks use common Brakes, Tires, headlights, seats and engine parts.
 
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qf789
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:48 pm

Avalon cancels 75 737MAX and 4 A330neo. 16 737MAX deferred from 2020-2023 to beyond 2024 and 9 A320neo family deferred from 2020-2021 to 2027

https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transp ... 32.article
Forum Moderator
 
StTim
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:57 pm

qf789 wrote:
Avalon cancels 75 737MAX and 4 A330neo. 16 737MAX deferred from 2020-2023 to beyond 2024 and 9 A320neo family deferred from 2020-2021 to 2027

https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transp ... 32.article




This is just the start of the carnage on the order books.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:21 pm

StTim wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Avalon cancels 75 737MAX and 4 A330neo. 16 737MAX deferred from 2020-2023 to beyond 2024 and 9 A320neo family deferred from 2020-2021 to 2027

https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transp ... 32.article




This is just the start of the carnage on the order books.

However, the size is worthy of having a dedicated thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1444007

I wonder what AerCap, ALC, DAE, GECAS, Norwegian, and others will do?

List of airline leasing companies, Avolon was #7:
https://www.mototok.com/blog/top-10-air ... -companies

#7 cancelled 95 Aircraft... Unfortunately not a good leading indicator.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
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PM
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:39 pm

lightsaber wrote:



List of airline leasing companies, Avolon was #7:
https://www.mototok.com/blog/top-10-air ... -companies



Lightsaber


Avolon own CIT, don't they? Or is it the other way around?
 
chiad
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:49 pm

StTim wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Avalon cancels 75 737MAX and 4 A330neo. 16 737MAX deferred from 2020-2023 to beyond 2024 and 9 A320neo family deferred from 2020-2021 to 2027

https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transp ... 32.article




This is just the start of the carnage on the order books.


I would think Airbus is happy now that they cancelled the A380 program last year, but how on earth is the B777x going survive this?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:07 pm

Airbus orders for March:

Aercap - 25 x A320neo, 25 x A321neo
Undisclosed - 10 x A350-900

Cancellations:
16 x A220-300
7 x A320neo
2 x A321neo
9 x A350-900
6 x A350-1000

Airbus also announced production rate cuts for all lines (see separate thread).
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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tphuang
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:27 pm

scbriml wrote:
Airbus orders for March:

Aercap - 25 x A320neo, 25 x A321neo
Undisclosed - 10 x A350-900

Cancellations:
16 x A220-300
7 x A320neo
2 x A321neo
9 x A350-900
6 x A350-1000

Airbus also announced production rate cuts for all lines (see separate thread).

ouch, I wonder who are behind the A350 order/cancellation and who is canceling the A220-300?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Airbus orders for March:

Aercap - 25 x A320neo, 25 x A321neo
Undisclosed - 10 x A350-900

Cancellations:
16 x A220-300
7 x A320neo
2 x A321neo
9 x A350-900
6 x A350-1000

Airbus also announced production rate cuts for all lines (see separate thread).

ouch, I wonder who are behind the A350 order/cancellation and who is canceling the A220-300?


After scanning the O&D spreadsheet

SaudiGulf has cancelled their entire order of 16 x A220-300

A350 Changes:
LATAM -4 x A359, -6 x A35K
Undisclosed -10 x A359
Kuwait Airways +5 x A359
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
chiad
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:03 pm

scbriml wrote:
tphuang wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Airbus orders for March:

Aercap - 25 x A320neo, 25 x A321neo
Undisclosed - 10 x A350-900

Cancellations:
16 x A220-300
7 x A320neo
2 x A321neo
9 x A350-900
6 x A350-1000

Airbus also announced production rate cuts for all lines (see separate thread).

ouch, I wonder who are behind the A350 order/cancellation and who is canceling the A220-300?


After scanning the O&D spreadsheet

SaudiGulf has cancelled their entire order of 16 x A220-300

A350 Changes:
LATAM -4 x A359, -6 x A35K
Undisclosed -10 x A359
Kuwait Airways +5 x A359


IMO this is not so bad (19 net orders) considering what the industri is up against. I assume April will be worse.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:11 pm

scbriml wrote:
tphuang wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Airbus orders for March:

Aercap - 25 x A320neo, 25 x A321neo
Undisclosed - 10 x A350-900

Cancellations:
16 x A220-300
7 x A320neo
2 x A321neo
9 x A350-900
6 x A350-1000

Airbus also announced production rate cuts for all lines (see separate thread).

ouch, I wonder who are behind the A350 order/cancellation and who is canceling the A220-300?


After scanning the O&D spreadsheet

SaudiGulf has cancelled their entire order of 16 x A220-300

A350 Changes:
LATAM -4 x A359, -6 x A35K
Undisclosed -10 x A359
Kuwait Airways +5 x A359


You are missing 4 A339 cancellations (Avolon’s cancellations). I’m guessing the Kuwait was identification of an unknown? They did not place a new order in March.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:26 pm

scbriml wrote:
tphuang wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Airbus orders for March:

Aercap - 25 x A320neo, 25 x A321neo
Undisclosed - 10 x A350-900

Cancellations:
16 x A220-300
7 x A320neo
2 x A321neo
9 x A350-900
6 x A350-1000

Airbus also announced production rate cuts for all lines (see separate thread).

ouch, I wonder who are behind the A350 order/cancellation and who is canceling the A220-300?


After scanning the O&D spreadsheet

SaudiGulf has cancelled their entire order of 16 x A220-300

A350 Changes:
LATAM -4 x A359, -6 x A35K
Undisclosed -10 x A359
Kuwait Airways +5 x A359


10x A359 have to be DL b/c DL was negotiating taking over 10x orders from LATAM. Could be a lessor on behalf of DL, too. (Yes, I'm aware of SEC requirements to announce material events.)
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:42 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ouch, I wonder who are behind the A350 order/cancellation and who is canceling the A220-300?


After scanning the O&D spreadsheet

SaudiGulf has cancelled their entire order of 16 x A220-300

A350 Changes:
LATAM -4 x A359, -6 x A35K
Undisclosed -10 x A359
Kuwait Airways +5 x A359


10x A359 have to be DL b/c DL was negotiating taking over 10x orders from LATAM. Could be a lessor on behalf of DL, too. (Yes, I'm aware of SEC requirements to announce material events.)


Well, DL did announce they were taking over 10 A350s from LATAM, so DL could be behind the undisclosed order for 10 A350s. I wonder, this leaves LATAMs remaining order for A350s to just 2x -1000, surely they're not going to operate a subfleet of just 2?

Interesting also is that KU is re-ordering the 5 A359s they cancelled when they ordered 8x A338. But airlines in this region have a habit of changing their minds :silly:
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
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Polot
Posts: 10730
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:48 pm

Where are you guys getting this KU + 5 A359s from? The March spreadsheet has the same number of KU A359s on order (5) as January. When KU ordered their A338s they reduced their A359 count from 10 to 5. They never completely cancelled their order.

Edit: I think there are some screwups with the order on Airbus’s website. January (which had a April 8 2020 update) list 5 for KU, February lists 10, and March lists 5 again. I wouldn’t trust KU +5 A359s. KU has not placed an order this year according to the main ordering page of the spreadsheet.
 
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Momo1435
Posts: 1165
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:56 pm

The A350-900 cancellations are -7 in the updated January file, but Feb is -2, they made it look like 5 cancellations changed back to orders. In February the unidentified A359 orders also went from 7 to 0, with 2 cancellations, that would mean that 5 were identified as KU orders, which have now been cancelled again. The KU order might have been cancelled too early, but are now gone anyway.

For March the correct wide-body cancellations were:

Avalon -3x A330-900
CIT -1x A330-900

LATAM: -4x A350-900
LATAM: -6x A350-1000
Kuwait: -5x A350-900
 
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Polot
Posts: 10730
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:14 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
The A350-900 cancellations are -7 in the updated January file, but Feb is -2, they made it look like 5 cancellations changed back to orders. In February the unidentified A359 orders also went from 7 to 0, with 2 cancellations, that would mean that 5 were identified as KU orders, which have now been cancelled again. The KU order might have been cancelled too early, but are now gone anyway.

For March the correct wide-body cancellations were:

Avalon -3x A330-900
CIT -1x A330-900

LATAM: -4x A350-900
LATAM: -6x A350-1000
Kuwait: -5x A350-900


Based on the first page of the thread the original January numbers showed 2 A350 cancellations.

My only explanation is that KU canceled in January (or sometime in 2019?) and Airbus forgot to account for it in their spreadsheet, realized it for March, and retroactively fixed January but forgot to fix February (because there was no order/cancellation activity in February?).

Another oddity: for 2019 Airbus reported 768 net orders, but their historical orders sheet says 776. This is from the A320 family. Sheet says 662 net A320 orders but year end PR says 654. The unaltered February sheet is lacking the historical orders tab period.
 
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frigatebird
Posts: 1789
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:58 am

Momo1435 wrote:
The A350-900 cancellations are -7 in the updated January file, but Feb is -2, they made it look like 5 cancellations changed back to orders. In February the unidentified A359 orders also went from 7 to 0, with 2 cancellations, that would mean that 5 were identified as KU orders, which have now been cancelled again. The KU order might have been cancelled too early, but are now gone anyway.

For March the correct wide-body cancellations were:

Avalon -3x A330-900
CIT -1x A330-900

LATAM: -4x A350-900
LATAM: -6x A350-1000
Kuwait: -5x A350-900


Thank you, this makes sense.
Still wondering what LATAM will do with their remaining 2x A350-1000 on order :scratchchin:
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
Jefford717
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:36 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:28 pm

When will Airbus (if ever) remove those Iran Air orders from its order book? Any guess?
 
Geoff1947
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:59 pm

Jefford717 wrote:
When will Airbus (if ever) remove those Iran Air orders from its order book? Any guess?


When they deliver them , perhaps ?
 
T4thH
Posts: 1085
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:12 pm

Geoff1947 wrote:
Jefford717 wrote:
When will Airbus (if ever) remove those Iran Air orders from its order book? Any guess?


When they deliver them , perhaps ?

As this is the Trump US Iran embargo....when Airbus official close the A320 CEO family production line.
 
ShamrockBoi330
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:28 am

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:36 pm

Jefford717 wrote:
When will Airbus (if ever) remove those Iran Air orders from its order book? Any guess?


Are those contracts still officially in place, or have they been cancelled? Afterall, Trump is not going to be in power forever, so hopefully these can still get delivered at some point, they are desperately needed.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 19181
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:20 pm

Jefford717 wrote:
When will Airbus (if ever) remove those Iran Air orders from its order book? Any guess?


I would guess they’ll be removed as and when Iran Air cancels them. Until then...
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
chiad
Posts: 1330
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:20 pm

Boeing March 2020 Gross orders

All Nippon Airways: 11 B787-10
All Nippon Airways: 1 B787-9
BDS New Zealand: 4 B737-800A
BDS U.S. Navy: 8 B737-800A
FedEx Express: 1 767-300F
Government of Korea: 6 737-800A


Boeing order 2020 1st quarter Net Orders: -307

Breakdown:
B737: -314
B747: -4
B767: 2
B777: -15
B787: 24

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2950
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 Orders

Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:34 pm

chiad wrote:
Boeing March 2020 Gross orders

All Nippon Airways: 11 B787-10
All Nippon Airways: 1 B787-9
BDS New Zealand: 4 B737-800A
BDS U.S. Navy: 8 B737-800A
FedEx Express: 1 767-300F
Government of Korea: 6 737-800A


Boeing order 2020 1st quarter Net Orders: -307

Breakdown:
B737: -314
B747: -4
B767: 2
B777: -15
B787: 24

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries


Looks like Gol cancelled 34 737 MAXs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/14/boeing- ... rders.html

So 150 MAX cancellations:
- 11 Air Canada MAX 9
- 10 Oman Air MAX 8
- 9 AerCap MAXs
- 10 Japan Investment Adviser MAX 8s
- 1 MAX BBJ
- 75 Avolon Aerospace MAXs
- 34 Gol MAXs
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