Happy new year everyone. Thought I'd jump in to create the 2020 thread for Airbus and Boeing orders

Regards
JRPLANES

Link to previous thread
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1412183&start=350

Spirit firm order for 100 A320 NEO aircraft was not booked in December 2019, it can be moved back to this thread.

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

New firm order for 20 A220s:

Nordic Aviation Capital signs contract for 20 A220 Family aircraft

PepeTheFrog wrote:

New firm order for 20 A220s:

Nordic Aviation Capital signs contract for 20 A220 Family aircraft

It is already stated as firmed in the 2019 Airbus order listing for 27-Dec-2019. https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html

China Aircraft Leasing has placed an order for 40 A321 neo.

"Chief executive, Mike Poon says: “We see enormous market appetite for this single-aisle aircraft with lower operational cost, and the order is in line with our portfolio strategy of investing in the most in-demand modern technology aircraft with unbeatable fuel efficiency.”"

I posted this earlier today but without proper link, so the post was deleted.
Here we go again.. Hope mods are happier now.

https://www.flightglobal.com/china-airc ... 93.article

Asiaflyer wrote:

China Aircraft Leasing has placed an order for 40 A321 neo.

"Chief executive, Mike Poon says: “We see enormous market appetite for this single-aisle aircraft with lower operational cost, and the order is in line with our portfolio strategy of investing in the most in-demand modern technology aircraft with unbeatable fuel efficiency.”"

I posted this earlier today but without proper link, so the post was deleted.
Here we go again.. Hope mods are happier now.

https://www.flightglobal.com/china-airc ... 93.article

They are also converting 15 A320neo to A321neo

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

Air Greenland is writing on their pages they have ordered a single A330-800, to replace their current A330-200.

Only in Danish so far

https://www.airgreenland.dk/om-os/vores ... 330-800neo

Nordic Aviation Capital orders 20 A220's
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

chiad wrote:

Nordic Aviation Capital orders 20 A220's
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

This is an identified 2019 order, although they are just doing the PR now.

Polot wrote:

chiad wrote:

Nordic Aviation Capital orders 20 A220's
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

This is an identified 2019 order, although they are just doing the PR now.

This seems to be a firming up of the order placed back in the Paris air show.

CuriousMonkey wrote:

Polot wrote:

chiad wrote:

Nordic Aviation Capital orders 20 A220's
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... craft.html

This is an identified 2019 order, although they are just doing the PR now.

This seems to be a firming up of the order placed back in the Paris air show.

No, it is just the official announcement of the order, which has been already official signed/firmed on 27-Dec-2018 and has been already stated/published in the Airbus Dec-2019 listing.
https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html

Airbus and NAC just wanted to have a little bit of publicity.

Of course, you are also right, the order was already stated as MOU on the Paris Air Show.
This is the Airbus source/link.
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2019/06/nordic-aviation-capital-orders-20-a220-family-aircraft.html

Airbus Jan-2020 numbers are out.

274 orders for Airbus in Jan-2020.

Airbus logged net orders in January for 274 commercial aircraft from its A220, A320 and A350 XWB product lines in activity that included two new customers for the A220, additional market traction for the A320/A321 as reference products in the single-aisle segment, and further endorsements for the A350 XWB with repeat orders from two customers. During the month, 31 deliveries were made from the A220, A320, A330 and A350 XWB aircraft families.

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html

Orders: Jan-2020. Total: 296 gross and 274 net, 22 cancelled.

A220: 58x gross, 58x net orders (no cancelled)
8x Air Senegal A220-300
50x ALC A220-300


A320 Neo family: 227x gross, 207x net, 20x cancelled (15x A320 Neo and 5x A321 Neo)
BOC Aviation: 20x A320 neo
Cebu Pacific: 5x A320 Neo, 10x A321 Neo
ALC: 52x A321 neo
Spirit: 47x A319 Neo, 33x A320 Neo 20x A321 Neo
CALC 40x A321 Neo


A330: Nothing to see here

A350: 11x gross, 9x net, 2x cancelled, all A350-900
Air France: 10x A350-900
ALC: 1x A350-900

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html Please refer to the Jan-2020 listing in the link.

Holy cow ... excellent start of the year and another 200+ A320NEO`s added to the backlog.

I can only guess that earlier years someof these would have beenregisterred for 2019. No need for 5 quarter 2019...

47 A319neo? Wow. This smells like A220 conversion

The 2 A350 cancellations are by Lufthansa. The A320 cancellations where Avianca, they cancelled 20 A321 and converted 6 A321 to the A320. There were 21 other conversions from the A320 to the A321, to come to the 15x cancelled A320 and 5x A321.

A32xNEO sales at 7395 units.

ikolkyo wrote:

47 A319neo? Wow. This smells like A220 conversion

I'm not sure I understand. Spirit don't have any A220's on order do they?

Great month for Airbus by the way

Rgds

astuteman wrote:

ikolkyo wrote:

47 A319neo? Wow. This smells like A220 conversion

I'm not sure I understand. Spirit don't have any A220's on order do they?

Great month for Airbus by the way

Rgds

No, I’m saying those A319s are ripe for conversion. It be very odd seeing them take that many A319neos.

astuteman wrote:

ikolkyo wrote:

47 A319neo? Wow. This smells like A220 conversion

I'm not sure I understand. Spirit don't have any A220's on order do they?

Great month for Airbus by the way

Rgds

Spirit has had the ability to decide either for the A220 or for the A320 neo family and they have decided to order the A320 neo family.

Why did Lufthansa cancel 2 A350s?

Have those ALC orders been announced?

Someone83 wrote:

Why did Lufthansa cancel 2 A350s?

LH group seems to have an interesting contract with Airbus for the A350.
They are allowed to swap an order from firmed to options to purchase rights and vice versa. LH seems just to optimize the firm order according the global market demand. So these A350 are still there in the books, but now either as option or purchase right. Possibly they have already fast optimized according the coronavirus issue.

I see the backlog of the a321neo is now bigger (3077) than that of the a320neo (3025)

tvh wrote:

I see the backlog of the a321neo is now bigger (3077) than that of the a320neo (3025)

The A321XLR also got a boost with 27 untis for ALC and 10 for Cebu Pacific.

ikolkyo wrote:

47 A319neo? Wow. This smells like A220 conversion

Why on Earth would Spirit order a more expensive model, when they could have just as easily ordered A220s straight away?

T4thH wrote:

Someone83 wrote:

Why did Lufthansa cancel 2 A350s?

LH group seems to have an interesting contract with Airbus for the A350.
They are allowed to swap an order from firmed to options to purchase rights and vice versa. LH seems just to optimize the firm order according the global market demand. So these A350 are still there in the books, but now either as option or purchase right. Possibly they have already fast optimized according the coronavirus issue.

I do not believe the coronavirus excuse. Let`s say the effect of coronavirus is something about maybe a year ? Orderbooks are much more advanced in the future. As a german I do not like that much what Mr. Spohr decides at all

Excellent start of the year for Airbus.

The large A319neo order is a big surprise.

PepeTheFrog wrote:

Excellent start of the year for Airbus.

The large A319neo order is a big surprise.

I aggree with you in mind that the "heavy" Airbus chick is not very much in advantage against competitors, only for fleet compilence

oldJoe wrote:

PepeTheFrog wrote:

Excellent start of the year for Airbus.

The large A319neo order is a big surprise.

I aggree with you in mind that the "heavy" Airbus chick is not very much in advantage against competitors, only for fleet compilence

Also, the A319neo is not attractive on the financial market. Resale value will be non existent. It makes me wonder how Spirit will finance the aircraft.

T4thH wrote:

Orders: Jan-2020. Total: 296 gross and 274 net, 22 cancelled.

A220: 58x gross, 58x net orders (no cancelled)
8x Air Senegal A220-300
50x ALC A220-300


A320 Neo family: 227x gross, 207x net, 20x cancelled (15x A320 Neo and 5x A321 Neo)
BOC Aviation: 20x A320 neo
Cebu Pacific: 5x A320 Neo, 10x A321 Neo
ALC: 52x A321 neo
Spirit: 47x A319 Neo, 33x A320 Neo 20x A321 Neo
CALC 40x A321 Neo


A330: Nothing to see here

A350: 11x gross, 9x net, 2x cancelled, all A350-900
Air France: 10x A350-900
ALC: 1x A350-900

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html Please refer to the Jan-2020 listing in the link.

Is this a new Air France order or signing of the previous commitment?

scbriml wrote:

ikolkyo wrote:

47 A319neo? Wow. This smells like A220 conversion

Why on Earth would Spirit order a more expensive model, when they could have just as easily ordered A220s straight away?

Frankly I would expect Airbus to pitch the A220 instead of A319neo if somebody needs an aircraft of this size.

SEU wrote:

Is there a boeing thread?

Jokes aside why no boeing orders?

787s 777x ?

Boeing announces the second Tuesday of every month, so any January Boeing orders won’t be reported until next week.

DCA350 wrote:

T4thH wrote:

Orders: Jan-2020. Total: 296 gross and 274 net, 22 cancelled.

A220: 58x gross, 58x net orders (no cancelled)
8x Air Senegal A220-300
50x ALC A220-300


A320 Neo family: 227x gross, 207x net, 20x cancelled (15x A320 Neo and 5x A321 Neo)
BOC Aviation: 20x A320 neo
Cebu Pacific: 5x A320 Neo, 10x A321 Neo
ALC: 52x A321 neo
Spirit: 47x A319 Neo, 33x A320 Neo 20x A321 Neo
CALC 40x A321 Neo


A330: Nothing to see here

A350: 11x gross, 9x net, 2x cancelled, all A350-900
Air France: 10x A350-900
ALC: 1x A350-900

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/orders-deliveries.html Please refer to the Jan-2020 listing in the link.

Is this a new Air France order or signing of the previous commitment?

Signing of the previous commitment that was announced when the A220 order was firmed.

PepeTheFrog wrote:

scbriml wrote:

ikolkyo wrote:

47 A319neo? Wow. This smells like A220 conversion

Why on Earth would Spirit order a more expensive model, when they could have just as easily ordered A220s straight away?

Frankly I would expect Airbus to pitch the A220 instead of A319neo if somebody needs an aircraft of this size.

yes free up the possibiliteis open for a ACJ and go for the better A220 in that segment. If needed, go for the A 220-500 and here we go !

oldJoe wrote:

PepeTheFrog wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Why on Earth would Spirit order a more expensive model, when they could have just as easily ordered A220s straight away?

Frankly I would expect Airbus to pitch the A220 instead of A319neo if somebody needs an aircraft of this size.

yes free up the possibiliteis open for a ACJ and go for the better A220 in that segment. If needed, go for the A 220-500 and here we go !

Yes the officials at Spirit Aviation are just too stupid to do the job, every armchair general here can do it better...
For Spirit, it seems the A320 family commonality and the benefit to fly an airline with a single family/type of planes beats the benefit of an additional type.
On the US as also Europe market, there is a demand of jets in size below of the A320 or B737-8 Max. An for some single type airlines, the small benefit, to buy a plane below in size of the A320 Neo and B737-8 Max is big enough, so Spirit has ordered the A319-neo and Southwest the B737-7. Sometimes, someone needs not to understand, instead has just accept, that there are also others with experience, that these know, what they do.
And others (not single type airlines) will instead order the A220.
And other will buy/grab all A319 ceo who are young, have low number of cycles and are on the market.

There are many roads to get to Rome and often enough, it is not important, which road you take, only that you will end up in Rome and not somewhere else, as Naples.

oldJoe wrote:

T4thH wrote:

Someone83 wrote:

Why did Lufthansa cancel 2 A350s?

LH group seems to have an interesting contract with Airbus for the A350.
They are allowed to swap an order from firmed to options to purchase rights and vice versa. LH seems just to optimize the firm order according the global market demand. So these A350 are still there in the books, but now either as option or purchase right. Possibly they have already fast optimized according the coronavirus issue.

I do not believe the coronavirus excuse. Let`s say the effect of coronavirus is something about maybe a year ? Orderbooks are much more advanced in the future. As a german I do not like that much what Mr. Spohr decides at all

Not Spohr decides, the LH Board decides regarding orders e.g.
LH group has already received 15 A350, they have had 30 as firmed order (now 28), 15 options and 15 purchase rights. The firmed A350 shall be delivered last till 2027. As said, these two are not cancelled, they shall have been swap to the option or purchase right pool. The coronavirus crisis will and already has an impact ob the global market. It is likely, that part of the global economy (like in China) will be just set back/delayed by one year. As there is such an interesting contract and LH has the possibility to do it, why they shall not do it? If the market development is better than expected, they will swap some from the options or purchase rights to firm.
I do not know, what is the minimum time-frame to the delivery date, LH is able to swap an order, so perhaps LH is able to swap a delivery as soon as to be delivered in 2 years or less?

T4thH wrote:

oldJoe wrote:

T4thH wrote:

LH group seems to have an interesting contract with Airbus for the A350.
They are allowed to swap an order from firmed to options to purchase rights and vice versa. LH seems just to optimize the firm order according the global market demand. So these A350 are still there in the books, but now either as option or purchase right. Possibly they have already fast optimized according the coronavirus issue.

I do not believe the coronavirus excuse. Let`s say the effect of coronavirus is something about maybe a year ? Orderbooks are much more advanced in the future. As a german I do not like that much what Mr. Spohr decides at all

Not Spohr decides, the LH Board decides regarding orders e.g.
LH group has already received 15 A350, they have had 30 as firmed order (now 28), 15 options and 15 purchase rights. The firmed A350 shall be delivered last till 2027. As said, these two are not cancelled, they shall have been swap to the option or purchase right pool. The coronavirus crisis will and already has an impact ob the global market. It is likely, that part of the global economy (like in China) will be just set back/delayed by one year. As there is such an interesting contract and LH has the possibility to do it, why they shall not do it? If the market development is better than expected, they will swap some from the options or purchase rights to firm.
I do not know, what is the minimum time-frame to the delivery date, LH is able to swap an order, so perhaps LH is able to swap a delivery as soon as to be delivered in 2 years or less?

I think LH has 45 orders (now apparently 43). The original order for 25, of which 15 have been delivered so far and a new order for 20, in march 2019 (when they also ordered the B787-9 and announced the reduction in the A380 fleet). On top of this there are 15 options from the first order.

steman wrote:

T4thH wrote:

oldJoe wrote:

I do not believe the coronavirus excuse. Let`s say the effect of coronavirus is something about maybe a year ? Orderbooks are much more advanced in the future. As a german I do not like that much what Mr. Spohr decides at all

Not Spohr decides, the LH Board decides regarding orders e.g.
LH group has already received 15 A350, they have had 30 as firmed order (now 28), 15 options and 15 purchase rights. The firmed A350 shall be delivered last till 2027. As said, these two are not cancelled, they shall have been swap to the option or purchase right pool. The coronavirus crisis will and already has an impact ob the global market. It is likely, that part of the global economy (like in China) will be just set back/delayed by one year. As there is such an interesting contract and LH has the possibility to do it, why they shall not do it? If the market development is better than expected, they will swap some from the options or purchase rights to firm.
I do not know, what is the minimum time-frame to the delivery date, LH is able to swap an order, so perhaps LH is able to swap a delivery as soon as to be delivered in 2 years or less?

I think LH has 45 orders (now apparently 43). The original order for 25, of which 15 have been delivered so far and a new order for 20, in march 2019 (when they also ordered the B787-9 and announced the reduction in the A380 fleet). On top of this there are 15 options from the first order.

No, they have had only 30 firmed, 15 additional (expected to be firmed, even seems by some already listed as) were not, as the LH Board officials have never agreed. So now 28. Additional there were 15 options (the not firmed one) and 15 purchase rights. And as said, LH has an "intersting" A350 contract with Airbus, they are "limited" allowed to swap orders to options, to purchase rights and back.

steman wrote:

T4thH wrote:

oldJoe wrote:

I do not believe the coronavirus excuse. Let`s say the effect of coronavirus is something about maybe a year ? Orderbooks are much more advanced in the future. As a german I do not like that much what Mr. Spohr decides at all

Not Spohr decides, the LH Board decides regarding orders e.g.
LH group has already received 15 A350, they have had 30 as firmed order (now 28), 15 options and 15 purchase rights. The firmed A350 shall be delivered last till 2027. As said, these two are not cancelled, they shall have been swap to the option or purchase right pool. The coronavirus crisis will and already has an impact ob the global market. It is likely, that part of the global economy (like in China) will be just set back/delayed by one year. As there is such an interesting contract and LH has the possibility to do it, why they shall not do it? If the market development is better than expected, they will swap some from the options or purchase rights to firm.
I do not know, what is the minimum time-frame to the delivery date, LH is able to swap an order, so perhaps LH is able to swap a delivery as soon as to be delivered in 2 years or less?

I think LH has 45 orders (now apparently 43). The original order for 25, of which 15 have been delivered so far and a new order for 20, in march 2019 (when they also ordered the B787-9 and announced the reduction in the A380 fleet). On top of this there are 15 options from the first order.

Yes you are correct. LH now has 43 firm orders as can easily be seen in the O+D spreadsheet (even though there is some armchair general here stubbornly stating 30 or 28 over and over again).

Wow, great start of the year for Airbus! Have they ever booked so many orders in any previous January?

steman wrote:

I think LH has 45 orders (now apparently 43). The original order for 25, of which 15 have been delivered so far and a new order for 20, in march 2019 (when they also ordered the B787-9 and announced the reduction in the A380 fleet). On top of this there are 15 options from the first order.

I suppose the 2 A350 cancelled were actually reconfirmable orders, like the 3 A380s which LH cancelled a couple of years ago. And those 14x 777X although these were never listed as firm in Boeings books. Interesting Airbus appears to book these orders/commitments differently. So now LH probably has 17 A350 options? Odd that they ordered 20 additional A350s less than a year ago and now already let 2 earlier ones expire.

UA947 wrote:

steman wrote:

T4thH wrote:

Not Spohr decides, the LH Board decides regarding orders e.g.
LH group has already received 15 A350, they have had 30 as firmed order (now 28), 15 options and 15 purchase rights. The firmed A350 shall be delivered last till 2027. As said, these two are not cancelled, they shall have been swap to the option or purchase right pool. The coronavirus crisis will and already has an impact ob the global market. It is likely, that part of the global economy (like in China) will be just set back/delayed by one year. As there is such an interesting contract and LH has the possibility to do it, why they shall not do it? If the market development is better than expected, they will swap some from the options or purchase rights to firm.
I do not know, what is the minimum time-frame to the delivery date, LH is able to swap an order, so perhaps LH is able to swap a delivery as soon as to be delivered in 2 years or less?

I think LH has 45 orders (now apparently 43). The original order for 25, of which 15 have been delivered so far and a new order for 20, in march 2019 (when they also ordered the B787-9 and announced the reduction in the A380 fleet). On top of this there are 15 options from the first order.

Yes you are correct. LH now has 43 firm orders as can easily be seen in the O+D spreadsheet (even though there is some armchair general here stubbornly stating 30 or 28 over and over again).

OK, now I see, we all just misunderstood each other. We are all talking about the same numbers, I should have implemented an "additional" and/or some "+" to clarify it in my earlier post.

"LH group has already received 15 A350, they have had additional 30 as firmed order (now they have 28), +15 options and +15 purchase rights. The firmed A350 shall be delivered last till 2027. As said, these two are not cancelled, they shall have been swap to the option or purchase right pool.

Now it shall be solved. We are just talking about the same numbers. 45 firmed orders in total, now reduced to 43, of them 15 already delivered and additional in total 30 options and purchased rights, now increased most likely to a number of 32.
What is different, according to my knowledge, there are additional 15 purchased rights to the 15 options, so in total 30 (now most likely increased to 32).

Can we just keep to the topic, that being actual orders for 2020 and leave all the side commentary out of the discussion

qf789 wrote:

Can we just keep to the topic, that being actual orders for 2020 and leave all the side commentary out of the discussion

You mean these 7 orders?

AIR LEASE CO 7-Jan | 50 A220-300 + 52 A321neo + 1 A350-900 Air Lease Corporation (ALC) in Los Angeles
CALC 23-Jan | 40 A321neo China Aircraft Leasing Group Holdings Limited
BOC AVIATION 6-Jan | 20 A320neo formerly named Singapore Aircraft Leasing Enterprise
..
AIR FRANCE 6-Jan | 10 A350-900
SPIRIT 10-Jan | 47 A319neo + 33 A320neo + 20 A321neo
CEBU PACIFIC 6-Jan | 5 A320neo + 10 A321neo
AIR SENEGAL 2-Jan | 8 A220-300

More than 50% to leasing companies

Boeing didn't book any orders in January, also no cancellations.

qf789 wrote:

Can we just keep to the topic, that being actual orders for 2020 and leave all the side commentary out of the discussion

As I understand it this thread is for the purpose of reporting firm orders, the signing of other contracts, end of month reporting totals and clarify discussion of those orders (for example if these are conversions or new orders, mix of types ordered or identification of an unknown order) But not the discussion of suitability of an aircraft, projections of what will sell in the future.

So figuring out what a change in Lufthansa order for A350 means for total commitment would be in, but suggesting Spirit should buy a different frame for its purpose would be out.

Do I have that basically correct?

Momo1435 wrote:

Boeing didn't book any orders in January, also no cancellations.

That is not much. Airbus has had the best start since years with orders from seven customers and Boeing just nothing....Ok, also no cancellations, this has now surprised my a little bit, as I have had expected, some airlines will take the chance, regarding the extended delay, to cancel the MAX orders (and additional to request compensation, as Boeing has not fulfilled the contract). Perhaps we have to wait, till the MAX is grounded for more than one year. I have seen somewhere in a chat, that someone has had calculated, (regarding reduced production and than stop of production, the planned slow restart of the production again), how many MAX less will be produced, till MAX production is back in line-> 1200 jets.

When/after which delay airlines are allowed to cancel a contract? Does someone know it? Perhaps after an one year delay?: When airlines have not any more to take up a jet?

Exeiowa wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Can we just keep to the topic, that being actual orders for 2020 and leave all the side commentary out of the discussion

As I understand it this thread is for the purpose of reporting firm orders, the signing of other contracts, end of month reporting totals and clarify discussion of those orders (for example if these are conversions or new orders, mix of types ordered or identification of an unknown order) But not the discussion of suitability of an aircraft, projections of what will sell in the future.

So figuring out what a change in Lufthansa order for A350 means for total commitment would be in, but suggesting Spirit should buy a different frame for its purpose would be out.

Do I have that basically correct?

Confirmed. For a detailed discussion of a certain order, change or cancellation I recommend to open a separate thread.

Momo1435 wrote:

Boeing didn't book any orders in January, also no cancellations.

Yes, the first time since 1962 there have been no January order for Boeing.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... -58-years/

Congrats to Airbus for a great month, also to Boeing for not having any cancellations.