Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
arfbool
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:02 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:08 am

Speaking of MINT, is this some kind of conspiracy, a MINT plane scheduled for B62359 tomorrow? I'm lost.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N96 ... /KJFK/KBUR
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:24 am

arfbool wrote:
Speaking of MINT, is this some kind of conspiracy, a MINT plane scheduled for B62359 tomorrow? I'm lost.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N96 ... /KJFK/KBUR

Doesn’t appear you can buy a seat on it either. Return flight is JBU8058...which is interesting. The original flight 2358 appears to be canceled. Guessing they are subbing a mint plane for a non-mint flight?
 
arfbool
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:02 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:41 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
arfbool wrote:
Speaking of MINT, is this some kind of conspiracy, a MINT plane scheduled for B62359 tomorrow? I'm lost.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N96 ... /KJFK/KBUR

Doesn’t appear you can buy a seat on it either. Return flight is JBU8058...which is interesting. The original flight 2358 appears to be canceled. Guessing they are subbing a mint plane for a non-mint flight?


You’ve also got A21N #38 stranded there since Friday. Not posted yet which bird will be flying 8058. Weird.
 
evank516
Posts: 2142
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:35 am

tphuang wrote:
doulasc wrote:
I wish JetBlue would return to CMH

evank516 wrote:
JFK-DTW is also pretty high yielding. Wouldn't shock me to see B6 jump in on that. Of course DL will probably respond and upgauge, but it'll probably do well. The route needs competition too.


They probably will do about as well on that as JFK-CLT. Doesn't make a lot of sense to try routes within 500 miles of NYC from JFK. Vast majority of demand is out of LGA. If they want to retaliate against DL, MSP is a much better option. I think that might happen if they want to add more flight.

But realistically, they need to have save some slots for Europe and for these important transcon markets like LAX/SFO that continue to grow but see no additional flight. I really do hope they can add that 7th flight to SFO. The A21N delivery issues really hurt them.


Europe aside, what is your basis for saying that? Why would B6 even attempt DTW from LGA when their hub/focus city is JFK? Why wouldn't they break into a market monopolized by DL, who makes good yields on this route while flying mostly RJs with a mainline frequency sprinkled in? CLT already has competition from JFK between DL and AA, but DTW doesn't have anyone but DL.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5233
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:25 am

evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
doulasc wrote:
I wish JetBlue would return to CMH

evank516 wrote:
JFK-DTW is also pretty high yielding. Wouldn't shock me to see B6 jump in on that. Of course DL will probably respond and upgauge, but it'll probably do well. The route needs competition too.


They probably will do about as well on that as JFK-CLT. Doesn't make a lot of sense to try routes within 500 miles of NYC from JFK. Vast majority of demand is out of LGA. If they want to retaliate against DL, MSP is a much better option. I think that might happen if they want to add more flight.

But realistically, they need to have save some slots for Europe and for these important transcon markets like LAX/SFO that continue to grow but see no additional flight. I really do hope they can add that 7th flight to SFO. The A21N delivery issues really hurt them.


Europe aside, what is your basis for saying that? Why would B6 even attempt DTW from LGA when their hub/focus city is JFK? Why wouldn't they break into a market monopolized by DL, who makes good yields on this route while flying mostly RJs with a mainline frequency sprinkled in? CLT already has competition from JFK between DL and AA, but DTW doesn't have anyone but DL.


That's the point, they are unlikely to ever enter the NYC-DTW, because it's a waste of their precious JFK slot on a route that at best will be a little below system average margins like CLT. There is not much difference between DTW and CLT.
- both are really short routes
- both have a legacy fortress hub and other legacy compoetition.
- both have minimal ULCC competition

Between that and MSP, MSP makes a lot more sense because it's a lot further out, so JFK becomes more appealing. The shorter the route is, the less likely for people to fly out of JFK.

There are many places they can deploy aircraft that would be more profitable than JFK-DTW.
 
evank516
Posts: 2142
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:14 pm

tphuang wrote:
evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:


They probably will do about as well on that as JFK-CLT. Doesn't make a lot of sense to try routes within 500 miles of NYC from JFK. Vast majority of demand is out of LGA. If they want to retaliate against DL, MSP is a much better option. I think that might happen if they want to add more flight.

But realistically, they need to have save some slots for Europe and for these important transcon markets like LAX/SFO that continue to grow but see no additional flight. I really do hope they can add that 7th flight to SFO. The A21N delivery issues really hurt them.


Europe aside, what is your basis for saying that? Why would B6 even attempt DTW from LGA when their hub/focus city is JFK? Why wouldn't they break into a market monopolized by DL, who makes good yields on this route while flying mostly RJs with a mainline frequency sprinkled in? CLT already has competition from JFK between DL and AA, but DTW doesn't have anyone but DL.


That's the point, they are unlikely to ever enter the NYC-DTW, because it's a waste of their precious JFK slot on a route that at best will be a little below system average margins like CLT. There is not much difference between DTW and CLT.
- both are really short routes
- both have a legacy fortress hub and other legacy compoetition.
- both have minimal ULCC competition

Between that and MSP, MSP makes a lot more sense because it's a lot further out, so JFK becomes more appealing. The shorter the route is, the less likely for people to fly out of JFK.

There are many places they can deploy aircraft that would be more profitable than JFK-DTW.


The main difference between CLT and DTW is two airlines vs on airline competing. DL has a monopoly on JFK-DTW. Yields are very good and prices are very steep.

While I agree with you about MSP, the level of competition is equal. No one else but DL flies JFK-MSP, but I don't know if yields are as high as DTW.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5233
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:11 pm

alright, looks like some extra seat added for superbowl. Too bad they don't fly to Kansas city.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... 005397/en/
12 extra flight on FLL-SFO
10 extra flight on FLL-JFK
 
MKIAZ
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:52 pm

CaptCoolHand wrote:
Yea. Rumors flying about the demise of LGB and moving ops to lax.

All rumor now.



Do they even have the gates at LAX for this? Where could they even move at LAX to have space for this? AA/UA/DL aren't giving up any gates.

They do need a west coast hub and LAX would be *perfect* if they can secure the gates.
 
flyby519
Posts: 1570
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:53 pm

MKIAZ wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
Yea. Rumors flying about the demise of LGB and moving ops to lax.

All rumor now.



Do they even have the gates at LAX for this? Where could they even move at LAX to have space for this? AA/UA/DL aren't giving up any gates.

They do need a west coast hub and LAX would be *perfect* if they can secure the gates.


Maybe gain 1-2 gates at the midfield concourse when that opens? With only 15 flights left at LGB it wouldn’t take much space to cancel remaining short haul and move the rest to LAX
 
SyracuseAvGeek
Posts: 614
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:37 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:00 pm

I’m honestly surprised with how high yielding DTW is, why they haven’t yet gone to GRR. That’s a big part of the state of Michigan they are missing out on. And until recently no airline flew GRR-BOS/JFK, but Allegiant announced GRR-BOS last week with service beginning in May.
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
phllax
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:53 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:34 am

arfbool wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
arfbool wrote:
Speaking of MINT, is this some kind of conspiracy, a MINT plane scheduled for B62359 tomorrow? I'm lost.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N96 ... /KJFK/KBUR

Doesn’t appear you can buy a seat on it either. Return flight is JBU8058...which is interesting. The original flight 2358 appears to be canceled. Guessing they are subbing a mint plane for a non-mint flight?


You’ve also got A21N #38 stranded there since Friday. Not posted yet which bird will be flying 8058. Weird.


It was operated by 964. With the exception of 358 on Monday, all CEO operated flights on 358/2358 have stopped for gas. LAS tonight, DEN Sunday, SLC Friday.
 
dtremit
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:08 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:41 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
I’m honestly surprised with how high yielding DTW is, why they haven’t yet gone to GRR. That’s a big part of the state of Michigan they are missing out on. And until recently no airline flew GRR-BOS/JFK, but Allegiant announced GRR-BOS last week with service beginning in May.


GRR has a much smaller catchment area than DTW -- the CSA is 1.5M vs 5.3M in Detroit. And Detroit numbers don't include Windsor or Toledo, both of which use DTW heavily. Hence total enplanements in 2018 were something like 10% of DTW.

Traffic in between DTW and GRR also would tend to break towards DTW in most cases, I think -- AZO is an hour from GRR and about two from DTW, but people will make the drive for more options. LAN is just about equidistant. Both of those also have good connectivity to DTW and ORD for people who'd rather connect than drive (plus DCA flights from LAN).
 
Planeboy17
Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:04 pm

MKIAZ wrote:
CaptCoolHand wrote:
Yea. Rumors flying about the demise of LGB and moving ops to lax.

All rumor now.



Do they even have the gates at LAX for this? Where could they even move at LAX to have space for this? AA/UA/DL aren't giving up any gates.

They do need a west coast hub and LAX would be *perfect* if they can secure the gates.

LAX is building a new midfield terminal and there are rumors that B6 is in talks to get 5 or more gates at that terminal.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5233
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:06 pm

Earnings out for 2019 Q4. Not great numbers I must say. We already know about -2.7 RASM decline. CASM-ex was flat which is in the midpoint of guidance. I was expecting them to do better than that given the high completion rate.

Q1 guidance is not good. 0 to 3% RASM growth, which sounds good except when we consider the low growth 1.5 to 3.5% due to NEO delivery delays. Other factor that should have allowed higher RASM growth but didn't include introductory of BE and elimintation of a couple of low RASM routes like MEX/Secondary Cuba. CASM-EX is 1.5 to 3.5. Again, a little higher than expected given the progress made in 2019, but probably due to the low growth. The full year CASM growth looks better (anticipated to be -2% to 0). I'm sure a lot of that is from the adding 12 seats to the A320s.

More A321NEO delays. Only expecting at most 11 deliveries this year after 6 in 2019. So Airbus is now 10 aircraft behind schedule by end of 2020. First A220 looks to be on schedule to be delivered this year.

Apparently, they did sign agreement for used aircraft to mitigate the A321NEO delays. I assume this is where the additional mint flying comes from. Since all the A321NEOs are to be in the all-core configuration.

Says Q4 showed strong trends in transcon and business market. Latam improved from high single digit declines in 3Q19. My guess is that it's quite underperforming YoY, hence the recent cuts from FLL/MCO to the region.
 
juan885
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:44 pm

4 used a321s are being leased with their existing interiors. Anyone know who they're coming from?
 
User avatar
EWR22LAS25
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:21 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:01 pm

tphuang wrote:
Earnings out for 2019 Q4. Not great numbers I must say. We already know about -2.7 RASM decline. CASM-ex was flat which is in the midpoint of guidance. I was expecting them to do better than that given the high completion rate.

Q1 guidance is not good. 0 to 3% RASM growth, which sounds good except when we consider the low growth 1.5 to 3.5% due to NEO delivery delays. Other factor that should have allowed higher RASM growth but didn't include introductory of BE and elimintation of a couple of low RASM routes like MEX/Secondary Cuba. CASM-EX is 1.5 to 3.5. Again, a little higher than expected given the progress made in 2019, but probably due to the low growth. The full year CASM growth looks better (anticipated to be -2% to 0). I'm sure a lot of that is from the adding 12 seats to the A320s.

More A321NEO delays. Only expecting at most 11 deliveries this year after 6 in 2019. So Airbus is now 10 aircraft behind schedule by end of 2020. First A220 looks to be on schedule to be delivered this year.

Apparently, they did sign agreement for used aircraft to mitigate the A321NEO delays. I assume this is where the additional mint flying comes from. Since all the A321NEOs are to be in the all-core configuration.

Says Q4 showed strong trends in transcon and business market. Latam improved from high single digit declines in 3Q19. My guess is that it's quite underperforming YoY, hence the recent cuts from FLL/MCO to the region.



Not only an all core configuration, but with their existing interior. I think it's a bad look to rush these. Take your time and configure them appropriately.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5233
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:03 pm

They are leasing 4 used aircraft. No comment on if airbus is paying for this.

Remain confident in London plan for 2021. Not sure how far back this get pushed with all the delays.

Cabin restyling completed 53 so far. Due to Airbus delays, adjusting restyling stage to finish restyling by early 2021.

Got asked a lot about $2.50 to $3 EPS. Doesn't sound like the analysts are convinced of their answer.

Expecting 50 bp RASM headwind due to PR earthquake, making capacity adjustment due to that.

Need to learn how to optimize buyups in the fare option 2.0

double digit growth in ancillary, mostly from loyalty program, some from bag fees

It's painful to listen to Joanna talk. she just doesn't seem to know what she is talking about at all.

In comparison, both Steve and Robin seem to know entirely what they are talking about. Really miss MSG. The new guy doesn't give me much confidence at all.

Is anyone surprised by more delays to cabin restyling? I'm surprised they actually got around to leasing used aircraft. I would be shocked if some E90s don't stick around a little longer.
 
cpl22586
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:39 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:09 pm

juan885 wrote:
4 used a321s are being leased with their existing interiors. Anyone know who they're coming from?


Those are coming from Thomas Cook.
 
cpl22586
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:39 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:13 pm

arfbool wrote:
What's going on with the A21N fleet? #38 has been in Burbank since Friday night, where it does not belong, and #27 hasn't moved since Wednesday from JFK (per Flightaware). A21N Burbank flights have been suddenly switched backed to core 321ceo, and are 2/2 in stopping in Salt Lake City on the return.


The one that was stuck in Burbank required a engine change.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8624
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:24 pm

When is their 20th anniversary...Feb 11?
I'm assuming there will be a special painted plane.

Hey Jetblue! You should send that plane on the very first routes, BUF & TPA
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
User avatar
EWR22LAS25
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:21 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:19 pm

727LOVER wrote:
When is their 20th anniversary...Feb 11?
I'm assuming there will be a special painted plane.

Hey Jetblue! You should send that plane on the very first routes, BUF & TPA


You mean BUF-JFK-FLL, AKA Flight 1
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5961
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:40 pm

I had another FAA jumpseater yesterday

Garden city, works with B6


I wouldn’t be surprised if Etops causes a London delay after hearing him talk about it
 
SoCalFlyer
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:16 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:49 pm

If these current planes are the existing Thomas Cook coming with current interiors, as is. I wonder if they’ll keep them at 220 seats. Or take out 20 seats.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2567
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:27 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
If these current planes are the existing Thomas Cook coming with current interiors, as is. I wonder if they’ll keep them at 220 seats. Or take out 20 seats.


depends on which ones they are, some have 220, some have 214, I know small difference with 6 seats, if they wanted commonality with the rest of the core, maybe they will just block off the last couple of rows, however the leg room isn't going to be so pretty as the regular craft if so.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
FARmd90
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:44 pm

VS4ever wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:
If these current planes are the existing Thomas Cook coming with current interiors, as is. I wonder if they’ll keep them at 220 seats. Or take out 20 seats.


depends on which ones they are, some have 220, some have 214, I know small difference with 6 seats, if they wanted commonality with the rest of the core, maybe they will just block off the last couple of rows, however the leg room isn't going to be so pretty as the regular craft if so.

Even if they were to just block off the last row these particular frames would need a 5th FA. I would think it would be pretty easy to take some seats out and reshuffle the rows for 200 seats and send them flying. Or they would have to track them and make sure a 5th is on board for the flights.
 
SoCalFlyer
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:16 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:01 pm

FARmd90 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:
If these current planes are the existing Thomas Cook coming with current interiors, as is. I wonder if they’ll keep them at 220 seats. Or take out 20 seats.


depends on which ones they are, some have 220, some have 214, I know small difference with 6 seats, if they wanted commonality with the rest of the core, maybe they will just block off the last couple of rows, however the leg room isn't going to be so pretty as the regular craft if so.

Even if they were to just block off the last row these particular frames would need a 5th FA. I would think it would be pretty easy to take some seats out and reshuffle the rows for 200 seats and send them flying. Or they would have to track them and make sure a 5th is on board for the flights.



But wouldn’t that require the back galley to be taken out. We had to do that when we went from 190-200 seats on our current A321. It just seems like it would make sense to just keep it as is, until they do a permanent restyle. It would require a 5th inflight Crewmember as you said.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5233
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:36 pm

What's the evidence that these leased A321s are not getting reconfigured?

I read through their entire earnings call and didn't see anything about that. I did see confirmation again that there will be expansion of mint program. We know so far, they've added additional frequency to JFK-SAN, JFK-LAX and BOS-LAX. We also know there is no mint configured A321NEO coming in (all HD). So unless these leased A321s are going to be mint configured, I don't see anyway they can support these additional flights. I in fact anticipate all 4 to be mint configured.

We know the Caribbean market is going through a rough period, especially out of FLL. We know there is a huge expansion in BOS that's going to hurt the revenue performance there. The one market they admit that is doing well still is the transcon market. And with AA cutting back at JFK, there is a very obvious window to add flights in the transcon markets. They already added flight to LAX, LAS and SAN. I would expect the final A321 to be added to either JFK-SFO or BOS-SFO in mint configuration. We will see.

They continue to say that FLL buildup is important. But from what I can see, all the growth is in Boston and New York.
 
SoCalFlyer
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:16 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:46 pm

tphuang wrote:
What's the evidence that these leased A321s are not getting reconfigured?

I read through their entire earnings call and didn't see anything about that. I did see confirmation again that there will be expansion of mint program. We know so far, they've added additional frequency to JFK-SAN, JFK-LAX and BOS-LAX. We also know there is no mint configured A321NEO coming in (all HD). So unless these leased A321s are going to be mint configured, I don't see anyway they can support these additional flights. I in fact anticipate all 4 to be mint configured.

We know the Caribbean market is going through a rough period, especially out of FLL. We know there is a huge expansion in BOS that's going to hurt the revenue performance there. The one market they admit that is doing well still is the transcon market. And with AA cutting back at JFK, there is a very obvious window to add flights in the transcon markets. They already added flight to LAX, LAS and SAN. I would expect the final A321 to be added to either JFK-SFO or BOS-SFO in mint configuration. We will see.

They continue to say that FLL buildup is important. But from what I can see, all the growth is in Boston and New York.


They sent out a FAQs sheet to us, and said “the planes will fly with their current interiors, and will fly that way for some time. And, that down the road in the future they would get the Jetblue interior.” Straight from the horses mouth. They won’t have the current cabin when they arrive. And no immediate plans to install it.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5233
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:59 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
What's the evidence that these leased A321s are not getting reconfigured?

I read through their entire earnings call and didn't see anything about that. I did see confirmation again that there will be expansion of mint program. We know so far, they've added additional frequency to JFK-SAN, JFK-LAX and BOS-LAX. We also know there is no mint configured A321NEO coming in (all HD). So unless these leased A321s are going to be mint configured, I don't see anyway they can support these additional flights. I in fact anticipate all 4 to be mint configured.

We know the Caribbean market is going through a rough period, especially out of FLL. We know there is a huge expansion in BOS that's going to hurt the revenue performance there. The one market they admit that is doing well still is the transcon market. And with AA cutting back at JFK, there is a very obvious window to add flights in the transcon markets. They already added flight to LAX, LAS and SAN. I would expect the final A321 to be added to either JFK-SFO or BOS-SFO in mint configuration. We will see.

They continue to say that FLL buildup is important. But from what I can see, all the growth is in Boston and New York.


They sent out a FAQs sheet to us, and said “the planes will fly with their current interiors, and will fly that way for some time. And, that down the road in the future they would get the Jetblue interior.” Straight from the horses mouth. They won’t have the current cabin when they arrive. And no immediate plans to install it.

in that case, I really have no idea how they are getting those additional mint flying then.
 
FARmd90
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:13 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
FARmd90 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:

depends on which ones they are, some have 220, some have 214, I know small difference with 6 seats, if they wanted commonality with the rest of the core, maybe they will just block off the last couple of rows, however the leg room isn't going to be so pretty as the regular craft if so.

Even if they were to just block off the last row these particular frames would need a 5th FA. I would think it would be pretty easy to take some seats out and reshuffle the rows for 200 seats and send them flying. Or they would have to track them and make sure a 5th is on board for the flights.



But wouldn’t that require the back galley to be taken out. We had to do that when we went from 190-200 seats on our current A321. It just seems like it would make sense to just keep it as is, until they do a permanent restyle. It would require a 5th inflight Crewmember as you said.


I never got to see what the 321s looked like when they were 190 seats. I’ve only know them as the 200 layout. But I think they way the back is set up now on the Thomas cook planes is how the 321s originally looked at jetblue.
 
flyby519
Posts: 1570
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:14 am

jfklganyc wrote:
I had another FAA jumpseater yesterday

Garden city, works with B6


I wouldn’t be surprised if Etops causes a London delay after hearing him talk about it


Because of the WN ETOPS allegations? viewtopic.php?p=21957501

Or just because B6 is being B6?
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8624
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:19 am

EWR22LAS25 wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
When is their 20th anniversary...Feb 11?
I'm assuming there will be a special painted plane.

Hey Jetblue! You should send that plane on the very first routes, BUF & TPA


You mean BUF-JFK-FLL, AKA Flight 1



Now that I think about it..I think you're right
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
B6BOSfan
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:11 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:06 am

tphuang wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
What's the evidence that these leased A321s are not getting reconfigured?

I read through their entire earnings call and didn't see anything about that. I did see confirmation again that there will be expansion of mint program. We know so far, they've added additional frequency to JFK-SAN, JFK-LAX and BOS-LAX. We also know there is no mint configured A321NEO coming in (all HD). So unless these leased A321s are going to be mint configured, I don't see anyway they can support these additional flights. I in fact anticipate all 4 to be mint configured.

We know the Caribbean market is going through a rough period, especially out of FLL. We know there is a huge expansion in BOS that's going to hurt the revenue performance there. The one market they admit that is doing well still is the transcon market. And with AA cutting back at JFK, there is a very obvious window to add flights in the transcon markets. They already added flight to LAX, LAS and SAN. I would expect the final A321 to be added to either JFK-SFO or BOS-SFO in mint configuration. We will see.

They continue to say that FLL buildup is important. But from what I can see, all the growth is in Boston and New York.


They sent out a FAQs sheet to us, and said “the planes will fly with their current interiors, and will fly that way for some time. And, that down the road in the future they would get the Jetblue interior.” Straight from the horses mouth. They won’t have the current cabin when they arrive. And no immediate plans to install it.

in that case, I really have no idea how they are getting those additional mint flying then.


Reconfigure a few of the current A321s into mint ones, and use the leased ones to replace the reconfigured ones?
 
nine4nine
Posts: 622
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:44 am

SoCalFlyer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
What's the evidence that these leased A321s are not getting reconfigured?

I read through their entire earnings call and didn't see anything about that. I did see confirmation again that there will be expansion of mint program. We know so far, they've added additional frequency to JFK-SAN, JFK-LAX and BOS-LAX. We also know there is no mint configured A321NEO coming in (all HD). So unless these leased A321s are going to be mint configured, I don't see anyway they can support these additional flights. I in fact anticipate all 4 to be mint configured.

We know the Caribbean market is going through a rough period, especially out of FLL. We know there is a huge expansion in BOS that's going to hurt the revenue performance there. The one market they admit that is doing well still is the transcon market. And with AA cutting back at JFK, there is a very obvious window to add flights in the transcon markets. They already added flight to LAX, LAS and SAN. I would expect the final A321 to be added to either JFK-SFO or BOS-SFO in mint configuration. We will see.

They continue to say that FLL buildup is important. But from what I can see, all the growth is in Boston and New York.


They sent out a FAQs sheet to us, and said “the planes will fly with their current interiors, and will fly that way for some time. And, that down the road in the future they would get the Jetblue interior.” Straight from the horses mouth. They won’t have the current cabin when they arrive. And no immediate plans to install it.


Oh good lord I just booked a BUR-JFK run on the 321 In May and hope I don’t get stuck on one of these ex-Thomas Cook birds with the tight legroom and lack of IFE. When are they going in service.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
w3gar
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:24 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:00 am

Now that Avianca is about to end JFK-SAP in a few weeks, I can see B6 adding this route to their network in the future and do good on it.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5233
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:55 am

w3gar wrote:
Now that Avianca is about to end JFK-SAP in a few weeks, I can see B6 adding this route to their network in the future and do good on it.

I think it could work on a 4x weekly basis on off-peak and daily basis in peak season on A320. Problem with Honduras is that there is not much business or leisure demand there. B6 seems to be on a row with these JFK VFR routes recently. Still would love to see BOG at some point. Maybe there is still space even with AV/DL already on there.
 
dtremit
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:08 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:30 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
FARmd90 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:

depends on which ones they are, some have 220, some have 214, I know small difference with 6 seats, if they wanted commonality with the rest of the core, maybe they will just block off the last couple of rows, however the leg room isn't going to be so pretty as the regular craft if so.

Even if they were to just block off the last row these particular frames would need a 5th FA. I would think it would be pretty easy to take some seats out and reshuffle the rows for 200 seats and send them flying. Or they would have to track them and make sure a 5th is on board for the flights.


But wouldn’t that require the back galley to be taken out. We had to do that when we went from 190-200 seats on our current A321. It just seems like it would make sense to just keep it as is, until they do a permanent restyle. It would require a 5th inflight Crewmember as you said.


Why would you need to take out a galley to remove seats?
 
dtremit
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:08 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:32 pm

nine4nine wrote:
Oh good lord I just booked a BUR-JFK run on the 321 In May and hope I don’t get stuck on one of these ex-Thomas Cook birds with the tight legroom and lack of IFE. When are they going in service.


You are more accommodating than I would be. If B6 surprised me with a plane with 28" pitch, I would refuse to board it. Not what I paid for.
 
LightChop2Chop
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:53 pm

tphuang wrote:
w3gar wrote:
Now that Avianca is about to end JFK-SAP in a few weeks, I can see B6 adding this route to their network in the future and do good on it.

I think it could work on a 4x weekly basis on off-peak and daily basis in peak season on A320. Problem with Honduras is that there is not much business or leisure demand there. B6 seems to be on a row with these JFK VFR routes recently. Still would love to see BOG at some point. Maybe there is still space even with AV/DL already on there.


Have you been to SAP? There is quite a bit of business demand there. Manufacturing, agriculture (bananas) etc. I go there several times a year and the Hilton is always crammed with American business people. Now, where they are coming from in the US I don't know but I don't think they would have much issues filling a 4X week there.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5233
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:02 pm

LightChop2Chop wrote:
tphuang wrote:
w3gar wrote:
Now that Avianca is about to end JFK-SAP in a few weeks, I can see B6 adding this route to their network in the future and do good on it.

I think it could work on a 4x weekly basis on off-peak and daily basis in peak season on A320. Problem with Honduras is that there is not much business or leisure demand there. B6 seems to be on a row with these JFK VFR routes recently. Still would love to see BOG at some point. Maybe there is still space even with AV/DL already on there.


Have you been to SAP? There is quite a bit of business demand there. Manufacturing, agriculture (bananas) etc. I go there several times a year and the Hilton is always crammed with American business people. Now, where they are coming from in the US I don't know but I don't think they would have much issues filling a 4X week there.

Haven't been to Honduras but my impression was that most of the demand from New York would be vfr and missionaries. There would probably be more service if there is actually business demand there.
 
FARmd90
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:17 pm

When jetblue gets these frames. Can they even get “old” system that’s now on the core/mint planes anymore? Or would they have to be the AVANT system? Someone up thread mentioned reconfiguring current core 321s to mint and Thomas cook to core standards but again that leaves. Can jetblue even get the current system that’s found in the 321 cores/mint.
Last edited by FARmd90 on Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5961
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:19 pm

flyby519 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
I had another FAA jumpseater yesterday

Garden city, works with B6


I wouldn’t be surprised if Etops causes a London delay after hearing him talk about it


Because of the WN ETOPS allegations? viewtopic.php?p=21957501

Or just because B6 is being B6?



He didnt reference WN
 
FSDan
Posts: 3326
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:45 pm

tphuang wrote:
Still would love to see BOG at some point. Maybe there is still space even with AV/DL already on there.


Would B6's 320/321s have any trouble making it from BOG-JFK with a viable load? BOG is at 8,361 ft of elevation (higher even than UIO). I know AV sends 320s on MDE-JFK, but that's over 1,000 ft less elevated. I'm not sure at which elevation things become difficult, but I'm wondering if that's part of why B6 hasn't tried JFK-BOG while it seems to do well with Florida-BOG...
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5233
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:58 pm

FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Still would love to see BOG at some point. Maybe there is still space even with AV/DL already on there.


Would B6's 320/321s have any trouble making it from BOG-JFK with a viable load? BOG is at 8,361 ft of elevation (higher even than UIO). I know AV sends 320s on MDE-JFK, but that's over 1,000 ft less elevated. I'm not sure at which elevation things become difficult, but I'm wondering if that's part of why B6 hasn't tried JFK-BOG while it seems to do well with Florida-BOG...

I imagine it would have to be on neo. I think lack of neo was why they didn't try it in the past. And then delta beat them to the punch. Hard to see this route supporting 2 us carriers. And delta would be a lot harder to push off than aa. So I think JetBlue lost their chance here.
 
LightChop2Chop
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:47 pm

tphuang wrote:
Haven't been to Honduras but my impression was that most of the demand from New York would be vfr and missionaries. There would probably be more service if there is actually business demand there.


Well there is that but there is quite a bit of manufacturing (check the label of your shirt next time). Honduras is one the countries that often appears. the bananas in your supermarket are likely from Honduras. And to be fair AA has service from MIA and DFW, UA has service, DL has service, so does NK, Air Europa, AM and AV. So its not that isolated.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:53 pm

Does JetBlue make any sort of response to Delta's moves in MIA? How long before we really see them beef up FLL-Western US ops? Something like:

LAX - 6 daily year round
SAN - 2 daily year round
BUR - 1 daily year round
SJC - 1 daily year round
SFO - 4 daily year round
PDX - 1 daily year round
SEA - 2 daily year round
LAS - 3 daily year round
PHX - 2 daily year round
SLC - 2 daily year round
DEN - 3 daily year round
 
ABEguy
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:53 pm

So for those in the know, is JetBlue etops qualified, or currently working on it? Their London service is just around the corner, just curious where they stand.
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 3385
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:00 pm

evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
evank516 wrote:

Europe aside, what is your basis for saying that? Why would B6 even attempt DTW from LGA when their hub/focus city is JFK? Why wouldn't they break into a market monopolized by DL, who makes good yields on this route while flying mostly RJs with a mainline frequency sprinkled in? CLT already has competition from JFK between DL and AA, but DTW doesn't have anyone but DL.


That's the point, they are unlikely to ever enter the NYC-DTW, because it's a waste of their precious JFK slot on a route that at best will be a little below system average margins like CLT. There is not much difference between DTW and CLT.
- both are really short routes
- both have a legacy fortress hub and other legacy compoetition.
- both have minimal ULCC competition

Between that and MSP, MSP makes a lot more sense because it's a lot further out, so JFK becomes more appealing. The shorter the route is, the less likely for people to fly out of JFK.

There are many places they can deploy aircraft that would be more profitable than JFK-DTW.


The main difference between CLT and DTW is two airlines vs on airline competing. DL has a monopoly on JFK-DTW. Yields are very good and prices are very steep.

While I agree with you about MSP, the level of competition is equal. No one else but DL flies JFK-MSP, but I don't know if yields are as high as DTW.
I did a quick QSI and it would actually make sense for B6 to attempt JFK-DTW at some point because traffic to NYC in those large markets essentially become finite. What this means is that if an airline adds a flight to EWR, LGA, or JFK, seats will be filled. It's kind of like saying that if B6 attempts MCO-DTW that they wouldn't get more than a 70% because of competition which simply isn't true in finite markets. B6 can make it work if they make it appealing to both leisure and business passengers.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:05 pm

ABEguy wrote:
So for those in the know, is JetBlue etops qualified, or currently working on it? Their London service is just around the corner, just curious where they stand.


The "corner" is HUMONGOUS. Will take a while to round it. ;) :D
 
BlueBaller
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:26 pm

ABEguy wrote:
So for those in the know, is JetBlue etops qualified, or currently working on it? Their London service is just around the corner, just curious where they stand.


It's over a year away. It's still being developed.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos