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KFTG
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:26 pm

PVD757 wrote:
PVD-RSW & TPA. Nice adds but hope there isn’t another virus shutdown.

There won't be. Bet on it.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:27 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
UA isn't going to like Mint on EWR-LAX/SFO, plus all the new EWR flying.



UA is certainly going to win on frequency on EWR-SFO/LAX. It will be interesting to see how many flights B6 runs on a weekday, and what they get for average fares for those routes.
 
good2go
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:34 pm

alfa164 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Going right at DL as well with JFK-DTW/MSP Interesting to watch....



Conspicuously, they did not add JFK-ATL.


JFK-ATL already exists. And has continued during COVID.
 
a350lover
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:34 pm

Is EWR a new base with crews and planes overnight there, or just a destination from other bases? It isn't mentioned clearly on the press release.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:35 pm

First Miami Area- Portland nonstop. Assumed it would be AA PDX-MIA or AS PDX-FLL. Didn't see the B6 coming.

Also nice adds of PBI-ORD & PBI-PIT

FLL-SEA lots DL & NK seasonal service so makes sense B6 would jump on. AS has I believe a few corporate contracts on that route which sustains it, but B6 can compete for leisure.
 
lowfareair
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:37 pm

This is why we will see fare wars and flight levels returning to normal. Not from entrenched legacies wanting to do it, but from airlines who are either more nimble or have calculated that they lose less money flying planes than parking them. The big 4 almost assuredly don't want this, but moves like this from B6, NK, F9 will likely force their hand, at least within North America.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:39 pm

Seems like EWR is now considered a “hub” or “Focus city.” I have to wonder are they taking over UA’s regional gates in terminal A for the time being? I’ve been noticing some trucks going in and out of those gates lately after 2 months of inactivity.
 
codc10
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:45 pm

I think this is great news for competition at EWR. JetBlue (especially Mint, which is long overdue at EWR) offers a competitive product and has a strong local following in the NY/NJ area, much more so than Southwest. It will also motivate United to bring service back faster, and could encourage UA to return to a higher service standard, both in terms of flights and soft product.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Seems like EWR is now considered a “hub” or “Focus city.” I have to wonder are they taking over UA’s regional gates in terminal A for the time being? I’ve been noticing some trucks going in and out of those gates lately after 2 months of inactivity.


I believe B6 secured use of the former WN gates at A-1 prior to the pandemic, pending the move to the new T1 in the next year or two. I also wonder if JetBlue has an agreement with Air Canada to use its idle gates during the border shutdown.
Last edited by codc10 on Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
kavok
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:45 pm

alfa164 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Going right at DL as well with JFK-DTW/MSP Interesting to watch....


Similar to BOS, I’d be curious to know what amount of the B6 JFK-DTW/MSP passengers will be pure OD, and what amount will transfer onto a TATL LCC or Emirates once in JFK.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:53 pm

STT757 wrote:
How are they going to do STT-JFK, I thought the A320 had performance issues with the short runway.


Plan VFR obstacle departure procedure, hold back a few seats from max booking levels, plan to arrive into JFK during off peak arrival times, etc.
mercure f-wtcc
 
cschleic
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:54 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
First Miami Area- Portland nonstop. Assumed it would be AA PDX-MIA or AS PDX-FLL. Didn't see the B6 coming.

Also nice adds of PBI-ORD & PBI-PIT

FLL-SEA lots DL & NK seasonal service so makes sense B6 would jump on. AS has I believe a few corporate contracts on that route which sustains it, but B6 can compete for leisure.


Definitely leisure as they're showing SEA up to 3x weekly and PDX up to 2x weekly. Most likely overnight going east?
 
drdisque
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:56 pm

Flying ORD-PBI Local to Local is going to be a disaster. Yes, UA isn't flying it right now and WN only flies it seasonally, but there's a reason, there isn't much demand and what demand there is depends on having some feed.
 
x1234
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:02 pm

FINALLY DTW-JFK so I can use JFK as a gateway to Europe!
 
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enilria
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:05 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
enilria wrote:
I read this as caused by the Florida quarantine on NYC visitors creating surplus airplanes for other routes. You can see they are adding NYC to vacation destinations not locked down to New Yorkers like Florida and Florida to other cities like PIT/CLE. This is more of the NK/F9 business model.



The Florida "quarantine" is absolutely MEANINGLESS. You really think even a single person followed it? You scribble some gibberish on a form and hand it to a half awake national guardsman as you stroll off the jet bridge and thats the last anyone thinks about it. Totally irrelevant.

It isn't meaningless in that the amount of traffic has fallen dramatically to Florida from New York. That's a fact. Some people follow rules and some don't. Enough do so that traffic is way down.
evank516 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
enilria wrote:
I read this as caused by the Florida quarantine on NYC visitors creating surplus airplanes for other routes. You can see they are adding NYC to vacation destinations not locked down to New Yorkers like Florida and Florida to other cities like PIT/CLE. This is more of the NK/F9 business model.



The Florida "quarantine" is absolutely MEANINGLESS. You really think even a single person followed it? You scribble some gibberish on a form and hand it to a half awake national guardsman as you stroll off the jet bridge and thats the last anyone thinks about it. Totally irrelevant.


Not to mention it applies to NJ too and they're adding EWR-JAX on July 23.

The traffic shift from the NYC quarantine is behind this announcement. JAX is also on the border with Georgia.
Last edited by enilria on Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
catiii
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:10 pm

a350lover wrote:
Is EWR a new base with crews and planes overnight there, or just a destination from other bases? It isn't mentioned clearly on the press release.


Why would they mention it in a customer facing press release?
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:16 pm

I'm surprised at EWR-PHX at 2 daily, B6 barely runs 1 daily on JFK-PHX.
 
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dabpit
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:23 pm

Added the image from the press release but seems the admins deleted it...... so here it is again

Image
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SteveXC500
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:27 pm

evank516 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
UA isn't going to like Mint on EWR-LAX/SFO, plus all the new EWR flying.

Going right at DL as well with JFK-DTW/MSP

Interesting to watch....


I'm excited to see DL's response to JFK-DTW/MSP. Maybe we will actually see additional mainline flying on JFK-DTW and kick the 717s off of JFK-MSP.


Currently, albeit a greatly reduced schedule, JFK-MSP is A220's. MSP isn't seeing too many 717's of late. Again, greatly reduced though...
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:32 pm

enilria wrote:
evank516 wrote:

Not to mention it applies to NJ too and they're adding EWR-JAX on July 23.

The traffic shift from the NYC quarantine is behind this announcement. JAX is also on the border with Georgia.


Quarantine ends July 7th
https://wdwnt.com/2020/06/cdc-announces ... tate-area/

EWR-JAX starting July 23rd isn't impacted

The quarantine definitely has had some impact on NY- Florida travel

jetwet1 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
UA isn't going to like Mint on EWR-LAX/SFO, plus all the new EWR flying.



LAX-SFO won't be that much of an issue, that's pretty safe with corp flying. Where they will get hurt is routes that UA uses regular domestic seats instead of Polaris. I switched my NYC flying (along with many other people I know) to B6 from DL after B6 introduced Mint on the LAS-JFK route/ DL and UA responded by putting Polaris/Delta One aircraft on that route once a day, but then put it outside of meal times.....

B6 saw an opportunity to other a far superior product to those not tied to contracts and it worked, the same will happen at EWR, I have no doubts.


Large corporate flying is safe, as New Jersey corporates (and non JFK traffic) will want the expansive network UA has from EWR. It is the smaller & mid-sized accounts that B6 could likely attack.

B6 has had success with Mint on highly competitive routes
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varsity
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:44 pm

codc10 wrote:
I think this is great news for competition at EWR. JetBlue (especially Mint, which is long overdue at EWR) offers a competitive product and has a strong local following in the NY/NJ area, much more so than Southwest. It will also motivate United to bring service back faster, and could encourage UA to return to a higher service standard, both in terms of flights and soft product.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Seems like EWR is now considered a “hub” or “Focus city.” I have to wonder are they taking over UA’s regional gates in terminal A for the time being? I’ve been noticing some trucks going in and out of those gates lately after 2 months of inactivity.


I believe B6 secured use of the former WN gates at A-1 prior to the pandemic, pending the move to the new T1 in the next year or two. I also wonder if JetBlue has an agreement with Air Canada to use its idle gates during the border shutdown.


The WN gates were taken out of service last year to make room for construction equipment.
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HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:50 pm

Wow, B6 really going after UA at EWR and DL at JFK. They are really pushing for the title of New York’s hometown airline.

Was hoping to see TPA-SLC and JFK-BOI added by B6 with this announcement.
 
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STT757
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:52 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
enilria wrote:
evank516 wrote:

Not to mention it applies to NJ too and they're adding EWR-JAX on July 23.

The traffic shift from the NYC quarantine is behind this announcement. JAX is also on the border with Georgia.


Quarantine ends July 7th
https://wdwnt.com/2020/06/cdc-announces ... tate-area/

EWR-JAX starting July 23rd isn't impacted

The quarantine definitely has had some impact on NY- Florida travel

jetwet1 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
UA isn't going to like Mint on EWR-LAX/SFO, plus all the new EWR flying.



LAX-SFO won't be that much of an issue, that's pretty safe with corp flying. Where they will get hurt is routes that UA uses regular domestic seats instead of Polaris. I switched my NYC flying (along with many other people I know) to B6 from DL after B6 introduced Mint on the LAS-JFK route/ DL and UA responded by putting Polaris/Delta One aircraft on that route once a day, but then put it outside of meal times.....

B6 saw an opportunity to other a far superior product to those not tied to contracts and it worked, the same will happen at EWR, I have no doubts.


Large corporate flying is safe, as New Jersey corporates (and non JFK traffic) will want the expansive network UA has from EWR. It is the smaller & mid-sized accounts that B6 could likely attack.

B6 has had success with Mint on highly competitive routes


The Florida quarantine for people from the Tri-State area has been extended indefinitely, which is ridiculous as we've bent the curve hard in New Jersey and New York. Florida on the other hand is on a upward trajectory.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
F27500
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:00 pm

B6 completely halted HPN (White Plains, NY) at the outset of the covid situation when they were consolidating their NYC operations to just JFK and EWR.

Any idea when (and hopefully not "if") the HPN service starts again ?
 
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STT757
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:11 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Wow, B6 really going after UA at EWR and DL at JFK. They are really pushing for the title of New York’s hometown airline.

Was hoping to see TPA-SLC and JFK-BOI added by B6 with this announcement.


They're making an opportunistic grab, after the slots were relaxed at EWR what kept everything in check was gate space. With the loss of WN and several carriers cutting back due to Covid they made their play. If there's a rebound by the end of the year or next Spring this move will pay off huge dividends for B6.

I flew WN from EWR, to Denver and Orlando, but other locals did not take to them for whatever reason. B6 has been popular ever since they started EWR in 2005, they added slowly over the years but now made their move. This also dovetails nicely into the opening of Terminal One beginning in late 2021 where they will be the largest carrier.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:11 pm

Also, hopefully with these adds to all these leisure markets, I hope B6 doesn’t start cheapening their brand. I could definitely see them doing more of a Spirit like operation. I understand that leisure travel will be returning faster than business, but still will be interesting to see the path B6 takes going forward.

Not trying to start merger speculation but the JetBlue-Spirit merger possibilities make a little more sense if B6 continues these type of additions.
 
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varsity
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:11 pm

F27500 wrote:
B6 completely halted HPN (White Plains, NY) at the outset of the covid situation when they were consolidating their NYC operations to just JFK and EWR.

Any idea when (and hopefully not "if") the HPN service starts again ?


LGA is also closed at the moment, and I'm guessing so is SWF. I'd be curious to see what was said about these?
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:14 pm

STT757 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
enilria wrote:

The traffic shift from the NYC quarantine is behind this announcement. JAX is also on the border with Georgia.


Quarantine ends July 7th
https://wdwnt.com/2020/06/cdc-announces ... tate-area/

EWR-JAX starting July 23rd isn't impacted

The quarantine definitely has had some impact on NY- Florida travel

jetwet1 wrote:

LAX-SFO won't be that much of an issue, that's pretty safe with corp flying. Where they will get hurt is routes that UA uses regular domestic seats instead of Polaris. I switched my NYC flying (along with many other people I know) to B6 from DL after B6 introduced Mint on the LAS-JFK route/ DL and UA responded by putting Polaris/Delta One aircraft on that route once a day, but then put it outside of meal times.....

B6 saw an opportunity to other a far superior product to those not tied to contracts and it worked, the same will happen at EWR, I have no doubts.


Large corporate flying is safe, as New Jersey corporates (and non JFK traffic) will want the expansive network UA has from EWR. It is the smaller & mid-sized accounts that B6 could likely attack.

B6 has had success with Mint on highly competitive routes


The Florida quarantine for people from the Tri-State area has been extended indefinitely, which is ridiculous as we've bent the curve hard in New Jersey and New York. Florida on the other hand is on a upward trajectory.


I flew EWR-MCO back in May. There was nothing but a little sign saying to quarantine. The Tri-state area should be more worried about Floridians at this point!
 
cpl22586
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:16 pm

F27500 wrote:
B6 completely halted HPN (White Plains, NY) at the outset of the covid situation when they were consolidating their NYC operations to just JFK and EWR.

Any idea when (and hopefully not "if") the HPN service starts again ?


Last I saw was a July 1st startup for PVD; LGA, HPN, SWF; BWI; SJC; BUR and ONT
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:33 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Quarantine ends July 7th
https://wdwnt.com/2020/06/cdc-announces ... tate-area/

EWR-JAX starting July 23rd isn't impacted

The quarantine definitely has had some impact on NY- Florida travel



Large corporate flying is safe, as New Jersey corporates (and non JFK traffic) will want the expansive network UA has from EWR. It is the smaller & mid-sized accounts that B6 could likely attack.

B6 has had success with Mint on highly competitive routes


The Florida quarantine for people from the Tri-State area has been extended indefinitely, which is ridiculous as we've bent the curve hard in New Jersey and New York. Florida on the other hand is on a upward trajectory.


I flew EWR-MCO back in May. There was nothing but a little sign saying to quarantine. The Tri-state area should be more worried about Floridians at this point!



Im flying NYC to Florida all the time. Right thru the pandemic.

From May 1 on...full full full.

These people telling you that nobody is flying there… They don’t know what they’re talking about

You couldn’t non-rev out of any New York City airport to any Florida airport tomorrow if you wanted.

Are there less passengers overall? yes. But there are less flights and those flights are capped due to the social distancing

Upon arrival in Florida they put on what I like to call the “dog and pony show.”

You clap and jump and smile and you are quickly released to freedom. End of show.

And I’m not the only person that has realized that

NY-Florida right now is a winner. Perhaps the only winner.

Smart move
 
Miamiairport
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:38 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
enilria wrote:
I read this as caused by the Florida quarantine on NYC visitors creating surplus airplanes for other routes. You can see they are adding NYC to vacation destinations not locked down to New Yorkers like Florida and Florida to other cities like PIT/CLE. This is more of the NK/F9 business model.



The Florida "quarantine" is absolutely MEANINGLESS. You really think even a single person followed it? You scribble some gibberish on a form and hand it to a half awake national guardsman as you stroll off the jet bridge and thats the last anyone thinks about it. Totally irrelevant.


Exactly there is no way there's man power to follow people around. The gates to LGA/JFK for AA have been packed at MIA. People are coming and going between NYC and Florida.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:38 pm

Separate post:

United made a big mistake in New York

Essentially they have retrenched significantly while giving the appearance of strengthening their Newark hub

Over the last decade, they have essentially made themselves worthless out of JFK and LaGuardia unless you were flying to one of their hubs. Then they closed JFK.

This allowed other airlines like Jetblue Virgin and Alaska to get into the Transcon business.

I long-ago predicted that the competition would follow them right to their drawbridge at the fortress in Newark...and now it has.

“12 daily from JFK and now 3 daily to Newark.” What a great advantage for Jetblue to advertise with that line.

Bravo to them. Bravo.

Perhaps one of the biggest moves they have made in the history of the company was made this morning
 
FSDan
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:39 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Wow, B6 really going after UA at EWR and DL at JFK. They are really pushing for the title of New York’s hometown airline.


They already have that title - they're the only major airline based in NYC!

Regarding the fights B6 is picking with this announcement, there's been a lot of focus on UA at EWR and DL at MSP/DTW. However, I'd say beefing up their PHL-Florida presence is a pretty direct attack on AA as well. Each legacy gets some unwanted competition with this announcement.
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as739x
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:48 pm

KFTG wrote:
WN eating UAs lunch at DEN, now B6 at EWR? Smisek I mean Kirby better wise up.


Do you have a link to the numbers showing this?
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:52 pm

BA744PHX wrote:
I'm surprised at EWR-PHX at 2 daily, B6 barely runs 1 daily on JFK-PHX.


I am really curious as to the timings of the 2 flights. The later of two will almost certainly be timed to do a red-eye turn back to the east coast so that would make late evening departure from EWR. The earlier of the flights is really anyone's guess at this point. It is odd that they went with 2x PHX-EWR vs 2x PHX-JFK. There is more competition on the EWR route vs the JFK route.



I can some of these new transcon routes being flown with their 220s instead of their 320/321s.
 
joeblow10
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:58 pm

as739x wrote:
KFTG wrote:
WN eating UAs lunch at DEN, now B6 at EWR? Smisek I mean Kirby better wise up.


Do you have a link to the numbers showing this?


WN is back at 90% of its pre COVID capacity (flights, not seats) in DEN starting in July. Pretty much eating UA's lunch imo
 
DeltaRules
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:02 pm

Why not connect some of the dots in flyover country they've avoided for years? WN just bailed on BOS-CMH, which would open the door for them.
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Midwestindy
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:03 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
enilria wrote:
I read this as caused by the Florida quarantine on NYC visitors creating surplus airplanes for other routes. You can see they are adding NYC to vacation destinations not locked down to New Yorkers like Florida and Florida to other cities like PIT/CLE. This is more of the NK/F9 business model.



The Florida "quarantine" is absolutely MEANINGLESS. You really think even a single person followed it? You scribble some gibberish on a form and hand it to a half awake national guardsman as you stroll off the jet bridge and thats the last anyone thinks about it. Totally irrelevant.


Exactly there is no way there's man power to follow people around. The gates to LGA/JFK for AA have been packed at MIA. People are coming and going between NYC and Florida.


Just like most quarantine restrictions, they are not very enforceable. It definitely discouraged a sizable amount of passengers, given how much airlines reduced capacity.

AA's NYC-MIA is at 6-7 flights right now compared to the normal 25ish. Shouldn't be surprising that flights are close to the load factor cap, given systemwide load factors are in the 60s.

joeblow10 wrote:
as739x wrote:
KFTG wrote:
WN eating UAs lunch at DEN, now B6 at EWR? Smisek I mean Kirby better wise up.


Do you have a link to the numbers showing this?


WN is back at 90% of its pre COVID capacity (flights, not seats) in DEN starting in July. Pretty much eating UA's lunch imo


Compared to UA operating under 40% of DEN, I might add
https://twitter.com/AilevonPacific/stat ... 64737?s=20

UA is operating the least % of its July schedule out of the US carriers by a wide margin
Last edited by Midwestindy on Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
B752OS
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:04 pm

It'll be interesting to see how quickly they make FLL-SEA and FLL-PDX at lest daily.
 
Brandon757
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:04 pm

Happy to see DFW get another B6 flight. Hope FLL is in the cards for them one day from here.
 
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varsity
Posts: 448
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:05 pm

I'm wondering who is not returning to clear the slots and gate availability? If they're using AC's two gates in Pier 1 that is not going to last, and I thought the allocations in T1 had already been worked out, 100% CUTE but based on current percentage of capacity. As it is you had MCO flights out of Pier 3 (gate 21?).
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tphuang
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:07 pm

" So if they want to expand at EWR, they need to add more flights. I'd love to see LAX or SFO, but not sure if they have enough mint aircraft around for even 4x on EWR-LAX. Aside from that, stuff like PUJ/MBJ/KIN/CUN/AUA/BGI(more than 1x weekly) all seem to things they can try internationally. And domestically, I think leisure places and large WN stations are all places they can target like MSY/AUS/LAS/SAN and also places they have large enough presence like BUF/JAX/CHS/ACK."
- I got a lot of these EWR markets right. Basically, only missed PHX/SRQ.

I'm really surprised nobody has mentioned BOS up to this point. 30 new routes and nothing from BOS. There is a reason for that.

BOS business markets are slow to come back. They are doing just a fraction of the schedule to business markets like NYC/DC/Chicago/Philly compared to pre-COVID. DL is not in a hurry to add back BOS business routes, so JetBlue can take its time adding back capacity to those markets. Major shift of its focus back to NYC.

What have we seen in NYC?
DL slow to add back LGA due to non-existent corporate demand. Even slower adding back JFK due to collapsed international demand. No more 717s. Apparently
AA giving up a lot of slots at JFK and effectively dehubbing it.
UA slowly to add back EWR capacity and have minimal presence at LGA
No WN to worry about at EWR and JFK
No ULCC to worry about at JFK

Everything has opened up for B6 at NYC. DTW/MSP/DFW is less about picking a fight with DL in JFK-DTW/MSP and more about completing their network at JFK. I've been harping on them about adding these markets for a while now.

After they add these 3 markets and enter Europe, they are basically just missing CLT in their network. The biggest knock against B6 in NYC has always been that they don't fly to enough places. Especially for securing corporate contracts and now they will at least have token presence everywhere. If they can just get a few more LGA slots, then they can enter LGA-ORD and be a legitimate competitor in the business market to the legacy carriers. All this could be accomplished by 2022. A big difference compared to pre-COVID when they are boxed in at NYC with limited growth areas. They were just going to lose out more and more DL in NYC over time. It's a much bigger deal to DL than just JFK-DTW/MSP. Better to play offensive against DL at NYC and forcing DL to add back JFK quickly rather than play defensively at BOS like they were doing pre-COVID.

As for EWR, these are obvious moves for them to do. I'm just surprised they did not add more island stuff. I would imagine once they are certain the islands are not closing down traffic again, they will start adding stuff like PUJ/MBJ/CUN/AUA. I think they've been planning this move for a while. They got the extra space with new terminal 1 opening up and WN not around to fight for gates. This looks like they are aiming at minimum a 60 flight operation. Maybe they can go even higher than that. UA is going to take a while to get back to over 400 flights. JetBlue has until at least 2022 to add flights without worrying that NY airspace will be jammed up again.

Goal here for JetBlue should be a legitimate 3rd option for ff and businesses in NY area and a legitimate 2nd option for ff and businesses in NJ area. Looks like they are even thinking of moving into PA, which is probably a terrible idea.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:10 pm

FSDan wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Wow, B6 really going after UA at EWR and DL at JFK. They are really pushing for the title of New York’s hometown airline.


They already have that title - they're the only major airline based in NYC!


PANYNJ airports NYC, passenger traffic 12-months ending 9/19:

UA, 32.7 million
DL, 32.5 million
B6, 18.0 million
AA, 16.7 million
and to show the gap to #5, WN, 4.2 million

The tag 'Hometown airline' doesn't pay the bills.

https://old.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-tra ... T_2019.pdf
 
catiii
Posts: 3607
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:12 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Separate post:

United made a big mistake in New York

Essentially they have retrenched significantly while giving the appearance of strengthening their Newark hub

Over the last decade, they have essentially made themselves worthless out of JFK and LaGuardia unless you were flying to one of their hubs. Then they closed JFK.

This allowed other airlines like Jetblue Virgin and Alaska to get into the Transcon business.

I long-ago predicted that the competition would follow them right to their drawbridge at the fortress in Newark...and now it has.

“12 daily from JFK and now 3 daily to Newark.” What a great advantage for Jetblue to advertise with that line.

Bravo to them. Bravo.

Perhaps one of the biggest moves they have made in the history of the company was made this morning


Completely agreed on your UA assessment. I think it is clear that United’s New York/New Jersey strategy is in flux with Jill Kaplan leaving after less than 2 years, who came to United with much fanfare to be the President of New York/New Jersey. It appears they are dismantling that whole effort. As you rightly noted the network options from LGA are worthless, and to not even maintain a beach head presence in JFK was arguably the dumbest decision they've ever made. They do not have a transcontinental 757 replacement and the existing product pre-Covid was tired worn and dated. I don't see what their opportunities to respond here are, because they have rendered themselves irrelevant in the tri-state area everywhere but EWR, and that wall is crumbling.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5986
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:16 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Wow, B6 really going after UA at EWR and DL at JFK. They are really pushing for the title of New York’s hometown airline.


They already have that title - they're the only major airline based in NYC!


PANYNJ airports NYC, passenger traffic 12-months ending 9/19:

UA, 32.7 million
DL, 32.5 million
B6, 18.0 million
AA, 16.7 million
and to show the gap to #5, WN, 4.2 million

The tag 'Hometown airline' doesn't pay the bills.

https://old.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-tra ... T_2019.pdf


Actually it does

Because one, it is factually correct

And two, they have a license from New York State to actually market with the state logo

So believe me, it pays a lot of the bills for Jetblue
 
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STT757
Posts: 14138
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:16 pm

catiii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Separate post:

United made a big mistake in New York

Essentially they have retrenched significantly while giving the appearance of strengthening their Newark hub

Over the last decade, they have essentially made themselves worthless out of JFK and LaGuardia unless you were flying to one of their hubs. Then they closed JFK.

This allowed other airlines like Jetblue Virgin and Alaska to get into the Transcon business.

I long-ago predicted that the competition would follow them right to their drawbridge at the fortress in Newark...and now it has.

“12 daily from JFK and now 3 daily to Newark.” What a great advantage for Jetblue to advertise with that line.

Bravo to them. Bravo.

Perhaps one of the biggest moves they have made in the history of the company was made this morning


Completely agreed on your UA assessment. I think it is clear that United’s New York/New Jersey strategy is in flux with Jill Kaplan leaving after less than 2 years, who came to United with much fanfare to be the President of New York/New Jersey. It appears they are dismantling that whole effort. As you rightly noted the network options from LGA are worthless, and to not even maintain a beach head presence in JFK was arguably the dumbest decision they've ever made. They do not have a transcontinental 757 replacement and the existing product pre-Covid was tired worn and dated. I don't see what their opportunities to respond here are, because they have rendered themselves irrelevant in the tri-state area everywhere but EWR, and that wall is crumbling.


it's not all gloom and doom, United has more Widebody aircraft than any other US carrier and not a lot of International routes for them right now. They can 787-10 JetBlue to death on the Trans-cons.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
FCOTSTW
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:22 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
UA isn't going to like Mint on EWR-LAX/SFO, plus all the new EWR flying.

Going right at DL as well with JFK-DTW/MSP

Interesting to watch....


Very much so. Years ago they entered the DTW-BOS market and broke DL monopoly. Fares went from $ 400 / $ 500 R/T to $ 200.
Still, NYC is a different market, with DL and AA to JFK, UA to EWR, and NK playing the underdog to LGA. It will be interesting,
 
speedbird2263
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:07 pm

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:25 pm

Seems my armchair musings weren't so far off the mark. I see most of the EWR adds as very strategic and set up to succeed exceedingly well, especially as it pertains to the Mint product. Interesting times ahead, SEA-FLL with a strong cruise market would work even better but with slow recovery in that industry it will be interesting to watch its performance.
Straight'n Up 'N Fly Right Son
 
tphuang
Posts: 5297
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:30 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
[
I am really curious as to the timings of the 2 flights. The later of two will almost certainly be timed to do a red-eye turn back to the east coast so that would make late evening departure from EWR. The earlier of the flights is really anyone's guess at this point. It is odd that they went with 2x PHX-EWR vs 2x PHX-JFK. There is more competition on the EWR route vs the JFK route.

I can some of these new transcon routes being flown with their 220s instead of their 320/321s.

That was before COVID. They are probably expecting UA to be slow adding back the number of flights on EWR-PHX. They are probably thinking AA will shrink at PHX due to WN pressure and significantly reduce if not drop EWR-PHX. I doubt either DL/AA will dramatically cut back JFK-PHX. For july, AA is already back to 3x daily on JFK-PHX, whereas EWR-PHX only has 5x weekly by UA.

Midwestindy wrote:
WN is back at 90% of its pre COVID capacity (flights, not seats) in DEN starting in July. Pretty much eating UA's lunch imo


Compared to UA operating under 40% of DEN, I might add
https://twitter.com/AilevonPacific/stat ... 64737?s=20

UA is operating the least % of its July schedule out of the US carriers by a wide margin[/quote]
Yep, another part of B6 calculus would be that UA is getting attacked in a lot of places by WN and also feeling a lot of ULCC pressure at EWR. So there will be less retaliation from them at this time. UA is clearly bringing back their middle of the country hubs and even IAD faster than EWR at this point.

varsity wrote:
I'm wondering who is not returning to clear the slots and gate availability? If they're using AC's two gates in Pier 1 that is not going to last, and I thought the allocations in T1 had already been worked out, 100% CUTE but based on current percentage of capacity. As it is you had MCO flights out of Pier 3 (gate 21?).

I believe they already had 5 or 6 at EWR pre-COVID. They were able to get more gates toward end of last year. That's what allowed them to schedule 36 flights a day this April/May before COVID happened. BOS-EWR isn't going to return to pre-COVID capacity anytime soon. EWR-Florida is likely to be below pre-COVID capacity for a few more months. So even if they don't get more gates, 6 gates should fit in these flights with no problem. It does look like they have much larger ambition for that. I'm assuming eventually EWR mint will increase over time as NYC-LAX/SFO market comes back, so they are going to be adding 15 to 20 flights from these announced cities. I'd imagine most of them stick around. On top of that, they are likely to add some island flying. That alone will bring them to about 60 flights on peak days. I'd imagine they will be looking to get preferential access to at least 8 gates at T1.

FSDan wrote:
Regarding the fights B6 is picking with this announcement, there's been a lot of focus on UA at EWR and DL at MSP/DTW. However, I'd say beefing up their PHL-Florida presence is a pretty direct attack on AA as well. Each legacy gets some unwanted competition with this announcement.

That's the part that really surprised me. It seems a great way to burn money to get in between AA and 2 ULCCs in some of these PHL-Florida markets. I think PHL-SJU will be able to stick but not sure about other stuff they are adding.

I can sort of get the logic here with PIT/PHL. They are making a huge play for NJ. By adding to both PHL and PIT, it will allow them to also capture some customers in PA. I'm just not sure how much of that will stick around once BOS business markets come back.

CobaltScar wrote:
Looks like a final push to throw Alaska out of FLL too. All great adds. They really need to make EWR a co terminal and continue a huge push into it.

Another one I'm surprised people missed. This is a huge attack on AS.

They are basically looking to push AS off MCO-SFO, EWR-LAX/SFO/SAN. Given what we've seen from AS in the cali-transcon market, I think there is a good shot they will be able to do that.

And adding PDX-FLL before AS and adding SEA-FLL.

CLE-RSW and ORD-PBI seem like real oddballs here.
Last edited by tphuang on Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3605
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:45 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Wow, B6 really going after UA at EWR and DL at JFK. They are really pushing for the title of New York’s hometown airline.


They already have that title - they're the only major airline based in NYC!


PANYNJ airports NYC, passenger traffic 12-months ending 9/19:

UA, 32.7 million
DL, 32.5 million
B6, 18.0 million
AA, 16.7 million
and to show the gap to #5, WN, 4.2 million

The tag 'Hometown airline' doesn't pay the bills.

https://old.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-tra ... T_2019.pdf


UA and DL also have major wide-body and long-haul networks out of New York. B6 only has narrow-body aircraft, but has done enough damage to basically push AA to near irrelevance at JFK. The idea here is that B6 could re-fit more 321s with Mint, while the 32Qs (excluding the LR frames) are all core, and then make more routes Mint (basically an international-style J) where B6 could do damage to the legacies, like ORD. AA will likely retrench to PHL, CLT, MIA, and DFW.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3659
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:46 pm

good2go wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Going right at DL as well with JFK-DTW/MSP Interesting to watch....

Conspicuously, they did not add JFK-ATL.

JFK-ATL already exists. And has continued during COVID.


Sorry; I meant EWR-ATL
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....

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