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MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:16 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think we can all agree B6’s EWR announcement was a little bit of an attack on everyone.


It also was about filling voids left by WN's departure from EWR.

The overall adds were an attack on everyone is correct:

A bit of an attack on everyone is correct. DL/UA/NK/F9/AS/AA/WN all impacted by these ads.
 
T5towbar
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:50 pm

tphuang wrote:
codc10 wrote:


Nobody is talking about Terminal C or even A-2. They are talking about CUTE gate access in the new terminal 1. If CUTE gates are not being used and the preferred carriers are not using them, other airlines should be allowed to use that. And if they don't meet their usage requirements, they should no longer have preferred access to them. I just don't see how AA could continue to use up 7 gates if it becomes CUTE. And if UA operation can mostly fit in Terminal C, they should not be holding half of the gates at the new terminal 1 and not allowing other carriers to use them.
[quote]





UA wont' be "holding" half the gates. Not even a third of them. There will be a UA presence, no matter what happens, since all this talk is just speculation of who gets what. The PA have already agreed in principle that UA will have some gates & lounge since they are losing A-2. Whether they be mainline or UAX, no one knows who (or any carrier) is getting how many. The only thing that was mentioned (not officially) in all of this is who is getting relocated due to the demolition of A. That's it. But it is fun for A-netters to speculate though.

The terminal isn't even half finished yet. We're talking at least a year away, before any moves be made. Construction is coming along just fine. I just hope that it will be "closed in" by winter this year. It looks like they are closing up some of the "wings" or the end gates, but the headhouse is still framed out. If you can see and compare up close, it looks bigger than the present Terminal A. And there will be much better egress to the taxiways with the new config, but you still would have to contend with the demolition / construction as well. Concrete will have to be poured and reinforced to maintain a hard stand(s), since planes can't sit on asphalt for long stretches and put dimples in the asphalt where the wheels sit, due to weight. I remember watching before the framing was built, they were digging caissons (I guess for the in ground fuel tanks??) and pouring concrete around the footprint of the ramp area. That area would be where the planes will be parked at the gates. And it also looks like the service road will be below the jetbridges (closer to the building) for easier access to the BMU, and for Allied (the fuelers) & the caterers. It looks like there will be high jetbridges, but I don't know if the PA will splurge for glass windows or not. They did the concrete work first, while the digging / pile driving the beams for the framing of the building. Now lines are painted on the concrete where the jet bridges would be located. (I think, but some lines do not correspond with the openings of the jetbridge doorways.) Before COVID19, there were some RON aircraft sitting on the concrete pad. Haven't seen many lately though.

I'm just letting you guys know what I see during construction.

By opening day, the business environment will have changed by then, (hopefully for the best for all airlines) and we will see how things shape up. A lot can change by then.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
B6BOSfan
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:51 pm

New York, New Jersey and Connecticut to place a 14-day quarantine on anyone arriving in the region from a state with a high #coronavirus infection rate.

Not good for travelers looking to head out of the city to say, Florida or Arizona.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:56 pm

My sister and a few friends are coming home from Florida tomorrow. Will they quarantine for 14 days? I wouldn’t bet money on it. Will anyone else quarantine for 14 days? Yeah, I don’t think so.
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:21 pm

B6BOSfan wrote:
New York, New Jersey and Connecticut to place a 14-day quarantine on anyone arriving in the region from a state with a high #coronavirus infection rate.

Not good for travelers looking to head out of the city to say, Florida or Arizona.


Fully depends on what the restrictions are, and also if you live in the city, are working from home as it is, then the 'quarantine' when you return from vacation in Florida isn't too meaningful
 
tphuang
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:21 pm

codc10 wrote:
If we are talking theoretically, then yes, I agree that CUTE gates *should* have a use requirement, and an airline should not be permitted to squat on gates. But, at T1, only the gates themselves will be CUTE, and there will still be airline-specific leaseholds (for which United's space is substantial), and gates allocated to air carriers on a preferential-use basis. The use requirement on the T1 gates is going to be lower than most would expect (something like average of 3 daily turns).

My discussion on this topic is aimed at the idea the Port Authority will be allocating T1 gates principally on the basis of capacity ratios in the post-COVID environment, especially Summer 2020, which is nonsensical. This is an aberration, and while it will take time to get back to 100%, we aren't going to see United suddenly pushed out of T1 because of a temporary reduction in flying necessitated by the pandemic. No chance, and, as I mentioned, most of those gate allocation issues have already been agreed upon, at least in principle.

The other notion, generally unsupported by evidence, is that United squats on gates at EWR, exclusive or not. During normal times, United is usually between 5 and 6 departures per gate, per day, some gates more than others, reflective of the regional/mainline narrow/mainline wide/international arrival mix. That means its usage rate is generally better than DL at JFK (more comparable operation) but not as much as DL at LGA (higher-frequency, smaller aircraft), and several-fold better than AA at JFK. It's roughly equivalent to B6 at JFK T5.

AA allocates space to other carriers in T8 at its discretion, as it is under an exclusive-use arrangement for that terminal, and while T4 is technically CUTE, virtually all DL gates at T4 are at least preferential-use, and some exclusive. CUTE gates are not the free-for-all you seem to think they are, though. If the space is already assigned to an airline, it is incumbent on the airline to maintain a service level for that gate/time to remain preferential or exclusive. Generally, in the case of the NY airports, these are reviewed at long intervals (not month-to-month) and are often part of the horse-trading between airlines and the Port (e.g., part of a negotiation for tenant projects, improvements, capital investments made by an airline, etc.). In other words, it's not considered in a vacuum.

Again, if the gates are not being used at the time, they should be open for other carriers to use, because they are CUTE gates. Sure, most of the gates will have preferred use, but if they are not being used at that moment. You keep bringing up pre-COVID, but we are not talking about pre-COVID. This is about what things look like after COVID. UA will have a much reduced presence for a while due to lack of business demand. Unless it chose to not use T-C and just use T-1 gates when it opens. I'm not even sure how it can do that since it won't be the first to move into T-1, there will be many empty T-1 gates that other airlines can use.

And once other airlines like B6 and NK add up to a certain number of flights, they are not going to be forced to cut back on that because now UA is ready to have more flights. Those gates are not exclusive usage gates. Even if they have preferential access to a carrier. If that carrier is not using it at that moment, it should be available of other carriers to use. That's how CUTE gates work.

CUTE gates by definition are not exclusive.

Anyways, don't think we will agree here, so I will move on.

jetblastdubai wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Which is the reason DL has only scheduled in 75 flights a day in August at LGA (there will be another cut later). UA faces the same problem at EWR that DL has a at LGA. .


The big difference between UA @ EWR and DL @ LGA/JFK is that DL controls slots and new competitors that didn't have service before can't just come in and add flights and threaten DL's market share. DL can sit back and add back flights when it fits their timetable as long as they're not forced to use or lose their slots.

United faces the dilemma that there there are other carriers that are in a position to act faster, with less risk, and can literally walk right in the front door at EWR and add flights where they wish and there's nothing UA can do about it.


That's fair, but UA is also committed to lowering its cash burn. That's not going to happen if it keeps flying empty planes from EWR to nearby business markets. UA will be smaller for a while at EWR whether people like it or not. I think it's great, since I live next to EWR and like more choices. I had resigned myself to flying only *A for a while.

As for DL, I think they might need to get ready to add a lot of flights to LGA, because all the LCCs are eager for the slot waivers to be over. At this point, looks like Jetblue will be running close to enough flights at JFK by December to meet slot usage requirements. No other LCCs are in risk of losing any slots from ending slot waivers.
 
tphuang
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:25 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
I think we can all agree B6’s EWR announcement was a little bit of an attack on everyone.


It also was about filling voids left by WN's departure from EWR.

The overall adds were an attack on everyone is correct:

A bit of an attack on everyone is correct. DL/UA/NK/F9/AS/AA/WN all impacted by these ads.


That maybe the case, but UA and DL were clearly the 2 carriers hurt most by these moves. AA really isn't affected that much. It's far more concerned about ULCC explosion at PHL than the few flights that B6 added. WN is barely affected. The best thing that happened to JetBlue with COVID is that WN has absolute no interest in their most important stations. All of the WN expansion are attacking legacy carriers. ULCCs are used to more competition. They will just move to other markets if they don't like the profit margins. Although, I think NK will stick around. They are pretty stubborn.
 
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STT757
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:31 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
T5towbar wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Does the new terminal 1 have preferential access to most of the gates or are they all truly shared. If it's the former, how do they decide which ones have preferential access and which ones are shared? That would seem like the biggest limiting factor to JetBlue or the ULCCs at the moment. Is it still going to have limited opening in 2021? What happens to T A at that time?


I don't know what will happen to AC (will there be a widebody gate or a shutdown gate to fit their 787 YVR flight, but if things go according to plan, B6 & AC (since they are in A1) will be the first tenants when it opens, because A1 (banjo) has be torn down first. F9 & NK will move from Term B should be next. Then AS and AA will make their move from A3. Then UA / UAX will move as well. UAX; AA and AS can move in the same time without disruption. The terminals (banjos) will be torn down for a hardstand, but the main terminal building where the monorail goes thru will be left intact. Maybe office/retail space, or who knows. Heard rumors of a hotel too.

Don't know the allocation of gates yet, but the aforementioned carriers will be moving to A-1. Everybody except DL. (I don't know the reason for that, but this is what I heard). These are supposed to be shared gates. but you know carriers will be given some preferential treatment. I also hear that AA and UA will have lounges as well. It's scheduled to be open 2Q of 2021. They would like to have the terminal; arrival & departure roads, and the rental car building done when opening happens. Right now, looks like construction is still on schedule. Looks pretty good from where I see it every day.

AA
AC
AS
B6
F9
NK
UA/UAX


It looks like the Monorail is a bit short of the new Terminal?

Will it just be a long walk? Or will they extend the trackage until a replacement is in place down the road?


You will walk through the new CONRAC facility to reach the terminal as depicted here;

https://www.roi-nj.com/2019/05/09/finance/conrac-closes-500m-worth-of-financing-for-conrac-facility-at-newark-airport/

The new CONRAC facility's work is progressing along with Terminal One, and will open in stages similarly to the terminal. It's pretty substantial, $500 Million, and includes a retail component.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:53 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
B6BOSfan wrote:
New York, New Jersey and Connecticut to place a 14-day quarantine on anyone arriving in the region from a state with a high #coronavirus infection rate.

Not good for travelers looking to head out of the city to say, Florida or Arizona.


Fully depends on what the restrictions are, and also if you live in the city, are working from home as it is, then the 'quarantine' when you return from vacation in Florida isn't too meaningful



I think this could torch a lot of this expansion.

Not because of another meaningless quarantine (and these state to state quarantines on the mainland are meaningless) but because this is a Tipping Point for Florida in terms of the average traveler.

It cant be ignored or brushed under the carpet any longer... they arent going to book a vacation to this very visible new hot spot.

Heck, following the line...

there is no way Disney opens July 11
no NBA or WNBA in Disney in July
no Spring Training in Florida

It may not have been announced yet, but all of the above is not going to happen as planned with daily records of Corona in Florida.

And Aunt Millie in the Oranges looking to visit her sister in Sarasota...that wont happen either.

Today was a very bad day for the airlines. Very bad

And I have a feeling tomorrow (meaning near future) will be worse
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:58 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
B6BOSfan wrote:
New York, New Jersey and Connecticut to place a 14-day quarantine on anyone arriving in the region from a state with a high #coronavirus infection rate.

Not good for travelers looking to head out of the city to say, Florida or Arizona.


Fully depends on what the restrictions are, and also if you live in the city, are working from home as it is, then the 'quarantine' when you return from vacation in Florida isn't too meaningful



I think this could torch a lot of this expansion.

Not because of another meaningless quarantine (and these state to state quarantines on the mainland are meaningless) but because this is a Tipping Point for Florida in terms of the average traveler.

It cant be ignored or brushed under the carpet any longer... they arent going to book a vacation to this very visible new hot spot.

Heck, following the line...

there is no way Disney opens July 11
no NBA or WNBA in Disney in July
no Spring Training in Florida

It may not have been announced yet, but all of the above is not going to happen as planned with daily records of Corona in Florida.

And Aunt Millie in the Oranges looking to visit her sister in Sarasota...that wont happen either.

Today was a very bad day for the airlines. Very bad

And I have a feeling tomorrow (meaning near future) will be worse


I agree, Florida (and Texas) become raging epicenters of the virus the way NY was in May is the last thing the airline industry needed.
 
B6BOSfan
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:08 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
B6BOSfan wrote:
New York, New Jersey and Connecticut to place a 14-day quarantine on anyone arriving in the region from a state with a high #coronavirus infection rate.

Not good for travelers looking to head out of the city to say, Florida or Arizona.


Fully depends on what the restrictions are, and also if you live in the city, are working from home as it is, then the 'quarantine' when you return from vacation in Florida isn't too meaningful



I think this could torch a lot of this expansion.

Not because of another meaningless quarantine (and these state to state quarantines on the mainland are meaningless) but because this is a Tipping Point for Florida in terms of the average traveler.

It cant be ignored or brushed under the carpet any longer... they arent going to book a vacation to this very visible new hot spot.

Heck, following the line...

there is no way Disney opens July 11
no NBA or WNBA in Disney in July
no Spring Training in Florida

It may not have been announced yet, but all of the above is not going to happen as planned with daily records of Corona in Florida.

And Aunt Millie in the Oranges looking to visit her sister in Sarasota...that wont happen either.

Today was a very bad day for the airlines. Very bad

And I have a feeling tomorrow (meaning near future) will be worse


I think you're spot on. Cuomo's exact words: "We have to make sure the virus doesn't come in on a plane."

As of Wednesday, the advisory applies to Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, Washington, Utah and Texas.

"In New York, it's a travel advisory, you are informed you should quarantine for 14 days. If you go to a hotel, hotel clerk asks how come you are not in quarantine? You go to a business meeting, someone says, arent you supposed to be in quarantine? You get stopped by a police officer who says, you are driving a car from Florida, weren't you supposed to be quarantine for 14 days," Cuomo explained. "Any of those mechanisms you can be detected as violating your quarantine. If you are violating your quarantine, you can be subject to a judicial order and mandatory quarantine. You could have to pay the costs of quarantine. There are also fines that go along with violating the quarantine. $2,000 for the first violation, $5,000 for the second, up to $10,000 if you cause harm."

You know some people won't follow this -- say that's 1/4 of travelers. That STILL means this will cause 75% of people who want to travel to adjust their plans.
 
codc10
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:27 pm

tphuang wrote:
Again, if the gates are not being used at the time, they should be open for other carriers to use, because they are CUTE gates. Sure, most of the gates will have preferred use, but if they are not being used at that moment. You keep bringing up pre-COVID, but we are not talking about pre-COVID. This is about what things look like after COVID. UA will have a much reduced presence for a while due to lack of business demand. Unless it chose to not use T-C and just use T-1 gates when it opens. I'm not even sure how it can do that since it won't be the first to move into T-1, there will be many empty T-1 gates that other airlines can use.

And once other airlines like B6 and NK add up to a certain number of flights, they are not going to be forced to cut back on that because now UA is ready to have more flights. Those gates are not exclusive usage gates. Even if they have preferential access to a carrier. If that carrier is not using it at that moment, it should be available of other carriers to use. That's how CUTE gates work.

CUTE gates by definition are not exclusive.

Anyways, don't think we will agree here, so I will move on.


That's fine. I don't think the position is reasonable and, as always, some bias comes into play any time EWR and United are discussed on A.net. My input is not entirely that of an enthusiast, as my business actually involves this subject matter, and without disclosing sensitive information or breaking confidentiality I can assure you United will not be involuntarily losing real estate at EWR as a result of COVID-related temporary service drawbacks. Full stop.
 
tphuang
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:34 pm

To be fair, most of the non-NYC expansions don't start until October. I would hope things have quieted down by then. This seems like a bigger hit on JetBlue and other airlines' existing flights from Northeast to the sunbelt. Some of the announced EWR flights may get their start date pushed back I think.

I don't think things will go back to where they were in April, but a lot of these added capacities in July might get canceled again.
 
catiii
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:08 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
All true, no reason why MINT can't eventually launch from all the great and rich cities on each coast. As much money in PHL as BOS.


Completely agreed. And you can also think about it from customers originating from the west coast to PHL as well. If the 321s could do westbound TCON DCA with Mint that would make a lot of sense as well (they can't unfortunately).
 
Jerseyguy
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:30 pm

3 turns a day? If UA has leases then by all means they can do as they wish but otherwise PANYNJ has to keep the airport competitive or just cut the crap and call it United International Airport.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:28 am

Alright, so this was a disappointing couple of days with now travel restrictions from tri-state to Florida and other states. I'm not sure the quarantines themselves will be that enforceable but the threat of it will problem scare some people from making those trips.

I may look like a fool for saying this, but maybe this won't be as bad for JetBlue as one would think. JetBlue's strategy coming out of this pandemic is increasingly focused around NY/NJ and building a more complete network around NY. While I do anticipate less demand from tri state area to Florida in near term, the new restriction doesn't really hurt their bread and butter VFR flights to DR/PR or mint to Cali (although that may change). Projecting a confidence of having crushed virus may bring more visitors from other states into New York and for New Yorkers to make VFR trips without worrying about hurting their elderly relatives. It remains to be seen whether New Yorkers will delay their vacation plans, drive to nearby beach or change vacation plans from Florida to Caribbeans or other leisure destinations. Maybe it makes sense for them to add a couple of ACK/MVY/HYA flights or bring back JFK-ORD in July. They do need to probably push back starting date on some of the Newark/PHL flights that go to the affected regions from August to October probably.

On another front, maybe they can take another look at entering Canada. AC and WS both look to be significantly more weakened by this than US airlines. JFK-YYZ/YUL from AA will probably be gone. I think there is a good chance WS will be gone from BOS-YYZ. Maybe next year would be the best time for them to enter YYZ/YU from JFK/BOS.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:09 am

I dont know the effect

The Florida quarantine is a joke on the Florida end

We shall see


More concerning would be the DR not opening on July 1 as planned. They already delayed it once.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:51 pm

B6 very negative today in meeting with employees

Bookings down. Cancels up.

I could see this whole announcement almost being whimsical after today

Not happening
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:53 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
jfklganyc wrote:
B6 very negative today in meeting with employees

Bookings down. Cancels up.

I could see this whole announcement almost being whimsical after today

Not happening


Any chance of all new routes being pushed back to October or just flat out scrapped?
 
tphuang
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:26 am

I think the tristate announcement was really disastrous for airlines this week. Not that the quarantines themselves have any meat, but now people perceive it to be dangerous going to Florida/Texas/Arizona.

My guess is all the JFK stuff goes ahead as planned. I think a few EWR routes still get launched July/August, but the rest will get pushed back to October or later. I think they all still get launched this year. Not as sure about LGA or PHL stuff. They will at minimum get pushed back to October. Most of the remaining stuff (all Florida stuff) will get the wait and see approach. A good number of them will get scrapped. I think FLL-SEA/PDX still goes ahead before the end of the year. No reason to cancel these routes now when Florida demand might come back by late September.
Last edited by tphuang on Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:23 am

tphuang wrote:
I think the tristate announcement was really disastrous for airlines this week. Not that the quarantines themselves have any meat, but now people perceive it to be dangerous going to Florida/Texas/Arizona.

My guess is all the JFK stuff goes ahead as planned. I think a few EWR routes still get launched July/August, but the rest will get pushed back to October or later. I think they all still get launched this year. Not as sure about LGA or PHL stuff. They will at minimum get pushed back to October. Most of the remaining stuff (all Florida stuff) will get the wait and see approach. A good number of them will get scrapped. I think FLL-SEA/PDX still goes ahead before the end of the year. No reason to cancel these routes now when Florida demand might come back by late September.

As bad as the quarantine is, I actually think the shutdown of bars in Florida and Texas is going to be even worse. Some people may have ignored a quarantine; no one is going to ignore news that makes it seem like:

a) there won’t be things to actually do when you get there
b) the situation is out of control in those states
 
catiii
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:24 am

jfklganyc wrote:
B6 very negative today in meeting with employees

Bookings down. Cancels up.

I could see this whole announcement almost being whimsical after today

Not happening


I thought it was a pretty realistic view given the tristate quarantine announcement. My takeaway was that it could go either way.

EWR expansion still happening though.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:52 am

Keep politics and coronavirus discussion out of this thread, please. Stick to the topic of JetBlue’s expansion. The rest can go over to the non-av forum.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
tphuang
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:59 am

I don’t think JetBlue will be hurt more than airlines with more significant operations in sunbelt states like aa or nk.

I do expect them to cut back on their planned increases for August.

And I think this assures dl and ua will be small in ny until February and March. So at most, this just pushes JetBlue ny expansion back a few months. The other non strategic stuff really depends on where demand are in September.
 
N649DL
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:50 am

B6BOSfan wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:

Fully depends on what the restrictions are, and also if you live in the city, are working from home as it is, then the 'quarantine' when you return from vacation in Florida isn't too meaningful



I think this could torch a lot of this expansion.

Not because of another meaningless quarantine (and these state to state quarantines on the mainland are meaningless) but because this is a Tipping Point for Florida in terms of the average traveler.

It cant be ignored or brushed under the carpet any longer... they arent going to book a vacation to this very visible new hot spot.

Heck, following the line...

there is no way Disney opens July 11
no NBA or WNBA in Disney in July
no Spring Training in Florida

It may not have been announced yet, but all of the above is not going to happen as planned with daily records of Corona in Florida.

And Aunt Millie in the Oranges looking to visit her sister in Sarasota...that wont happen either.

Today was a very bad day for the airlines. Very bad

And I have a feeling tomorrow (meaning near future) will be worse


I think you're spot on. Cuomo's exact words: "We have to make sure the virus doesn't come in on a plane."

As of Wednesday, the advisory applies to Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, Washington, Utah and Texas.

"In New York, it's a travel advisory, you are informed you should quarantine for 14 days. If you go to a hotel, hotel clerk asks how come you are not in quarantine? You go to a business meeting, someone says, arent you supposed to be in quarantine? You get stopped by a police officer who says, you are driving a car from Florida, weren't you supposed to be quarantine for 14 days," Cuomo explained. "Any of those mechanisms you can be detected as violating your quarantine. If you are violating your quarantine, you can be subject to a judicial order and mandatory quarantine. You could have to pay the costs of quarantine. There are also fines that go along with violating the quarantine. $2,000 for the first violation, $5,000 for the second, up to $10,000 if you cause harm."

You know some people won't follow this -- say that's 1/4 of travelers. That STILL means this will cause 75% of people who want to travel to adjust their plans.


Well, here in AUS they just shut down all the bars again until 7/10 as of today. And with the Saharan Wind Outbreak blowing through, this is going to be boring and dirty as hell on the July 4th around here.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:02 pm

KFTG wrote:
PVD757 wrote:
PVD-RSW & TPA. Nice adds but hope there isn’t another virus shutdown.

There won't be. Bet on it.


Small scale, but the bar closings in Texas and Florida are certainly a reversal. This thing isn't over yet - so recovery in air transport is going to be very unpredictable. A (Republican) governor of Texas pleading for people to wear masks... who would have thought it possible? https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politic ... l-leaders/

https://time.com/5860406/bartenders-cor ... ida-texas/

As a poke at UA, the EWR expansion has meaning. As for 'attacking' every carrier in NYC, this is bringing a water pistol to a gunfight. A few dozen flights in a market the size of NYC -- ~1660 flights to 238 cities non-stop last July -- don't mean much.
 
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Re: Major Expansion B6 at EWR and JFK

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:07 pm

Clearly no one wants to discuss the topic but rather discuss the moderation of the site which I will add is off topic. For all moderation queries you must contact us via email at [email protected]

As the rules have not be followed by several users the thread is now locked
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Nicknuzzii
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:56 pm

JetBlue is bringing an A321 from LGB to EWR today. I can’t see any departures after it arrives. Does anyone know if this is for gate fitting or what?
 
FARmd90
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:07 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
JetBlue is bringing an A321 from LGB to EWR today. I can’t see any departures after it arrives. Does anyone know if this is for gate fitting or what?


This particular 321 is mint configured. B6 has already sent the core 321 to EWR over this past holiday season to MCO so I can’t imagine that it’s for gate fitting. It’s also odd that since mint doesn’t start till July 23 out EWR they are sending one in now.

If anyone has another answer to this visit it would be great to know!
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:29 pm

FARmd90 wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
JetBlue is bringing an A321 from LGB to EWR today. I can’t see any departures after it arrives. Does anyone know if this is for gate fitting or what?


This particular 321 is mint configured. B6 has already sent the core 321 to EWR over this past holiday season to MCO so I can’t imagine that it’s for gate fitting. It’s also odd that since mint doesn’t start till July 23 out EWR they are sending one in now.

If anyone has another answer to this visit it would be great to know!


Possibly crew familiarization? Nothing really makes sense.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:38 pm

The initial August cuts are in.

They are bringing back most of the stations. LGA/HPN/SWF/BWI/SJC/RNO/SMF/HYA/BUR/ONT/SRQ/BZN are all coming back. I'm sure there are more in there that I'm missing right now.

This is from late July to give a point of reference
JFK - 99
BOS - 83
FLL - 41
EWR - 23

Now from late August Sunday, I see
JFK - 114
the only destinations I see missing completely are CTG, GCM, SJC. Everything else seems to get at least 2x weekly.
EWR - 38
LGA - 9
HPN - 7
BOS - 91
FLL - 51
So these are the initial cuts. They haven't made any kind of adjustments to the new routes they've added. I assume those will get trimmed down at some point once they have some more booking data. Still, that's a lot of flights added back to NY area airports. 38 at EWR would be easily an all time high for them. Again, I do expect that to get adjusted down to closer to 30.

BOS seems like it will take some time to come back. Business market frequencies look to not be coming back at all. They've basically just brought back LGA/BWI/SJC on low frequency and added a couple of other flights. FLL had a decent size increase also, although that could change depending on how bad COVID gets in Florida.

Another sign to show just how little B6 thinks of LGB. For august, here are the weekly frequencies from JFK to thin transcon-ish markets.
BUR - 4
ONT - 4
SMF - 3
PHX - 4
PDX - 3
BZN - 3
RNO - 3
LGB - 2
ABQ - 4
So basically, JetBlue is running fewer flights to LGB than Bozeman, Ontario and Reno in August. Not looking good.
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:53 pm

I think LGB as a B6 focus city is toast. I think once B6 makes its final cuts on LGB, I’m guessing LAS, JFK, and SLC are all that remain giving LGB around six or seven flights a day. Something along the lines of LAS 3x, JFK 1x, SLC 3x daily.

Not sure what B6 plans are out west going forward. It seems their focus is more and more centered around the east coast and specifically upper NE. Maybe the only real focus they’ll have going forward out west is transcons from LAX and SFO and making sure these with their Mint product give them some type of exposure and relevance out on the west coast.

Once everything calms down a bit I think B6 has a loyal enough frequent flyer base and name recognition that’s large enough in SLC to make it a small focus city, even though it’s a strong DL hub. B6 at SLC already flies BOS, FLL, MCO, LGB, and JFK. I think there are some cities that B6 could add from SLC where they could potentially find success such as AUS, SFO, SAN, TPA, and IAD.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1249
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:19 pm

tphuang wrote:
The initial August cuts are in.

They are bringing back most of the stations. LGA/HPN/SWF/BWI/SJC/RNO/SMF/HYA/BUR/ONT/SRQ/BZN are all coming back. I'm sure there are more in there that I'm missing right now.

This is from late July to give a point of reference
JFK - 99
BOS - 83
FLL - 41
EWR - 23

Now from late August Sunday, I see
JFK - 114
the only destinations I see missing completely are CTG, GCM, SJC. Everything else seems to get at least 2x weekly.
EWR - 38
LGA - 9
HPN - 7
BOS - 91
FLL - 51
So these are the initial cuts. They haven't made any kind of adjustments to the new routes they've added. I assume those will get trimmed down at some point once they have some more booking data. Still, that's a lot of flights added back to NY area airports. 38 at EWR would be easily an all time high for them. Again, I do expect that to get adjusted down to closer to 30.

BOS seems like it will take some time to come back. Business market frequencies look to not be coming back at all. They've basically just brought back LGA/BWI/SJC on low frequency and added a couple of other flights. FLL had a decent size increase also, although that could change depending on how bad COVID gets in Florida.

Another sign to show just how little B6 thinks of LGB. For august, here are the weekly frequencies from JFK to thin transcon-ish markets.
BUR - 4
ONT - 4
SMF - 3
PHX - 4
PDX - 3
BZN - 3
RNO - 3
LGB - 2
ABQ - 4
So basically, JetBlue is running fewer flights to LGB than Bozeman, Ontario and Reno in August. Not looking good.


Can you post the breakdown of flights for EWR please?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:20 pm

Wasnt EWR running close to 40 flights before?
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:59 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Wasnt EWR running close to 40 flights before?


25 ish last summer, 32 were planned for this summer but we all know what happened there.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5354
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:23 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Wasnt EWR running close to 40 flights before?

The most I've ever counted was 31. They scheduled in 35 for May and 29 for Summer before this. JetBlue trying to run 40 flights on 4 gates would not be a pretty sight.

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I think LGB as a B6 focus city is toast. I think once B6 makes its final cuts on LGB, I’m guessing LAS, JFK, and SLC are all that remain giving LGB around six or seven flights a day. Something along the lines of LAS 3x, JFK 1x, SLC 3x daily.

Not sure what B6 plans are out west going forward. It seems their focus is more and more centered around the east coast and specifically upper NE. Maybe the only real focus they’ll have going forward out west is transcons from LAX and SFO and making sure these with their Mint product give them some type of exposure and relevance out on the west coast.

Once everything calms down a bit I think B6 has a loyal enough frequent flyer base and name recognition that’s large enough in SLC to make it a small focus city, even though it’s a strong DL hub. B6 at SLC already flies BOS, FLL, MCO, LGB, and JFK. I think there are some cities that B6 could add from SLC where they could potentially find success such as AUS, SFO, SAN, TPA, and IAD.


It seems to me LAX is where they are going to be at. I'm really looking to find out where they are going to be at LAX (T5 or MSC or somewhere else?) and how many gates they will get.

At LAX, they are already back to 18 flights a day, just 4 under what they scheduled pre-COVID for summer. And that includes pricing O/W on MCO-LAX at $54. That's something serious commitment to both MCO and LAX.

It seems to me that the easiest thing they can do is to just shift all the non-transcon LGB flight to LAX. So basically 3x LAS, 2x SFO, 1x RNO, 1x AUS, 3x SLC, 2x SEA and 1x PDX. But they do reasonably well on SLC/SEA-LGB, that I'm not sure they can actually duplicate out of LAX. A more logical set up at LAX maybe 4x LAS, 1x RNO, 1x BZN, 3x SLC, 3x SFO, 1x SJD, 1x PVR. Add some more transcon to East coast. Now, you have like a 40 to 50 flight station that can have some north/south feed to Mexican resorts and also east/west feed from east coast.
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 229
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:33 pm

tphuang wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Wasnt EWR running close to 40 flights before?

The most I've ever counted was 31. They scheduled in 35 for May and 29 for Summer before this. JetBlue trying to run 40 flights on 4 gates would not be a pretty sight.

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I think LGB as a B6 focus city is toast. I think once B6 makes its final cuts on LGB, I’m guessing LAS, JFK, and SLC are all that remain giving LGB around six or seven flights a day. Something along the lines of LAS 3x, JFK 1x, SLC 3x daily.

Not sure what B6 plans are out west going forward. It seems their focus is more and more centered around the east coast and specifically upper NE. Maybe the only real focus they’ll have going forward out west is transcons from LAX and SFO and making sure these with their Mint product give them some type of exposure and relevance out on the west coast.

Once everything calms down a bit I think B6 has a loyal enough frequent flyer base and name recognition that’s large enough in SLC to make it a small focus city, even though it’s a strong DL hub. B6 at SLC already flies BOS, FLL, MCO, LGB, and JFK. I think there are some cities that B6 could add from SLC where they could potentially find success such as AUS, SFO, SAN, TPA, and IAD.


It seems to me LAX is where they are going to be at. I'm really looking to find out where they are going to be at LAX (T5 or MSC or somewhere else?) and how many gates they will get.

At LAX, they are already back to 18 flights a day, just 4 under what they scheduled pre-COVID for summer. And that includes pricing O/W on MCO-LAX at $54. That's something serious commitment to both MCO and LAX.

It seems to me that the easiest thing they can do is to just shift all the non-transcon LGB flight to LAX. So basically 3x LAS, 2x SFO, 1x RNO, 1x AUS, 3x SLC, 2x SEA and 1x PDX. But they do reasonably well on SLC/SEA-LGB, that I'm not sure they can actually duplicate out of LAX. A more logical set up at LAX maybe 4x LAS, 1x RNO, 1x BZN, 3x SLC, 3x SFO, 1x SJD, 1x PVR. Add some more transcon to East coast. Now, you have like a 40 to 50 flight station that can have some north/south feed to Mexican resorts and also east/west feed from east coast.


Not sure they would get the same results as some of those existing routes that are at LGB such as SLC/SEA/LAS/RNO, etc. would work LAX. Part of the appeal of LGB is that it’s never crowded, customer friendly, and it simply not being LAX.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6013
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:03 am

They have 5 gates at EWR.

4 in A1 and 1 in A3

Also, plenty of empty gates.

All of A2 is closed at the moment
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6013
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:14 pm

tphuang wrote:
The initial August cuts are in.

They are bringing back most of the stations. LGA/HPN/SWF/BWI/SJC/RNO/SMF/HYA/BUR/ONT/SRQ/BZN are all coming back. I'm sure there are more in there that I'm missing right now.

This is from late July to give a point of reference
JFK - 99
BOS - 83
FLL - 41
EWR - 23

Now from late August Sunday, I see
JFK - 114
the only destinations I see missing completely are CTG, GCM, SJC. Everything else seems to get at least 2x weekly.
EWR - 38
LGA - 9
HPN - 7
BOS - 91
FLL - 51
So these are the initial cuts. They haven't made any kind of adjustments to the new routes they've added. I assume those will get trimmed down at some point once they have some more booking data. Still, that's a lot of flights added back to NY area airports. 38 at EWR would be easily an all time high for them. Again, I do expect that to get adjusted down to closer to 30.

BOS seems like it will take some time to come back. Business market frequencies look to not be coming back at all. They've basically just brought back LGA/BWI/SJC on low frequency and added a couple of other flights. FLL had a decent size increase also, although that could change depending on how bad COVID gets in Florida.

Another sign to show just how little B6 thinks of LGB. For august, here are the weekly frequencies from JFK to thin transcon-ish markets.
BUR - 4
ONT - 4
SMF - 3
PHX - 4
PDX - 3
BZN - 3
RNO - 3
LGB - 2
ABQ - 4
So basically, JetBlue is running fewer flights to LGB than Bozeman, Ontario and Reno in August. Not looking good.


You should include San Juan

All of a sudden San Juan is the darling “hub.” Good percentage of flights back. Good loads

I wouldn’t be surprised to see renewed emphasis going forward
 
tphuang
Posts: 5354
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:56 pm

Good point, San Juan is looking very good.
I'm seeing 30 flights on July 26th out of SJU and 31 flights on Aug 23rd. That's about 2/3 to 3/4 of what they had scheduled into SJU pre-COVID..

I wonder if there will also be more leisure demand to PR if Florida loses its appeal from closing stuff down. Other possibilities are increasing demand to PUJ/MBJ/CUN/AUA if Northeasters get nervous about traveling to sunbelt states.

https://crankyflier.com/2020/06/30/alas ... k-in-july/
An article on AS pulling back in July. Would not be surprised if we see similar close-in cuts for JetBlue. The other thing to note is that AS is pulling back rather than countering JetBlue on those transcon adds. Not surprising to me.
 
Boston757
Posts: 103
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:57 pm

How’s London coming along? Where are they in their Etops? What aircraft?
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:02 pm

Boston757 wrote:
How’s London coming along? Where are they in their Etops? What aircraft?

Delayed a couple months. Still taking delivery of 5 A321LRs next year.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:03 pm

I have to wonder now with CA on the tri-state quarantine list, along with NV, how many of these routes will be postponed.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 753
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:08 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Not sure they would get the same results as some of those existing routes that are at LGB such as SLC/SEA/LAS/RNO, etc. would work LAX. Part of the appeal of LGB is that it’s never crowded, customer friendly, and it simply not being LAX.


Right, not sure that short haul out of LAX is worth it for a non-west coast airline like B6.

BUR and SNA needs attention. A modified mint configured A220-300 out of them. Those people will pay well to avoid LAX. LGB people won't.

The west coast solution for B6 is similar to AA's solution. They need a partner to handle all the short haul for them and feed their transcons. Why they don't just go forward and do this with Alaska is beyond me. Let Alaska continue to be the large regional airline it is throughout the western 3rd of the country and let B6 handle the transcons and east coast/Europe.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:11 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Not sure they would get the same results as some of those existing routes that are at LGB such as SLC/SEA/LAS/RNO, etc. would work LAX. Part of the appeal of LGB is that it’s never crowded, customer friendly, and it simply not being LAX.


Right, not sure that short haul out of LAX is worth it for a non-west coast airline like B6.

BUR and SNA needs attention. A modified mint configured A220-300 out of them. Those people will pay well to avoid LAX. LGB people won't.

The west coast solution for B6 is similar to AA's solution. They need a partner to handle all the short haul for them and feed their transcons. Why they don't just go forward and do this with Alaska is beyond me. Let Alaska continue to be the large regional airline it is throughout the western 3rd of the country and let B6 handle the transcons and east coast/Europe.


AA and AS became buddies last year. AS even going to join OneWorld. AA would not look kindly at B6 hooking up with AS.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5354
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:58 pm

So Cuomo and tri state have increased quarantine list to 16 states. He is making at least some threats of adding some teeth to enforcement which would be a problem for JetBlue, especially since demand to places like California have been recovering. With these announcements, I'm not too optimistic about demand other than to DR/PR.

I don't think it's out of realm of possibility that B6 has some level of partnership with AA/AS to help OW presence in northeast. After all, they did announce a reprotection partnership a couple of months ago, although not much seem to have happened with it. At this point, I think partnership with DL & UA are both not possible.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1249
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:07 pm

tphuang wrote:
So Cuomo and tri state have increased quarantine list to 16 states. He is making at least some threats of adding some teeth to enforcement which would be a problem for JetBlue, especially since demand to places like California have been recovering. With these announcements, I'm not too optimistic about demand other than to DR/PR.

I don't think it's out of realm of possibility that B6 has some level of partnership with AA/AS to help OW presence in northeast. After all, they did announce a reprotection partnership a couple of months ago, although not much seem to have happened with it. At this point, I think partnership with DL & UA are both not possible.


One thing to note is the quarantine for NJ is voluntary.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:08 pm

tphuang wrote:
So Cuomo and tri state have increased quarantine list to 16 states. He is making at least some threats of adding some teeth to enforcement which would be a problem for JetBlue, especially since demand to places like California have been recovering. With these announcements, I'm not too optimistic about demand other than to DR/PR.

I don't think it's out of realm of possibility that B6 has some level of partnership with AA/AS to help OW presence in northeast. After all, they did announce a reprotection partnership a couple of months ago, although not much seem to have happened with it. At this point, I think partnership with DL & UA are both not possible.


Not to be outdone. Baker in MA has gone for a quarantine list of 43 states (basically everyone not from New England,NY or NJ), that’s going to hurt.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:12 pm

VS4ever wrote:
tphuang wrote:
So Cuomo and tri state have increased quarantine list to 16 states. He is making at least some threats of adding some teeth to enforcement which would be a problem for JetBlue, especially since demand to places like California have been recovering. With these announcements, I'm not too optimistic about demand other than to DR/PR.

I don't think it's out of realm of possibility that B6 has some level of partnership with AA/AS to help OW presence in northeast. After all, they did announce a reprotection partnership a couple of months ago, although not much seem to have happened with it. At this point, I think partnership with DL & UA are both not possible.


Not to be outdone. Baker in MA has gone for a quarantine list of 43 states (basically everyone not from New England,NY or NJ), that’s going to hurt.


It start to look like the "Quarantine Wars".
YOU SLAP ME, I SLAP YOU! ;)
 
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STT757
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Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 pm

All these State vs. State quarantines are the number one reasons why the Federal Government needs to lead the pandemic response and not left up to local governments.
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