Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
tphuang
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:56 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
tphuang wrote:
That argument would only working if unblocking seats would reduce the number of flights they would offer. There is no evidence of that. For example, they didn't cancel more flights when they increased seat cap from 60 to 70%.

The LF out of NYC is lower than rest of the country. Only a very small % of flights will even hit the seat cap they are imposing. And more importantly, they advertise a much larger schedule after first cut and then cancel out flights that can't cover their incremental cost. Incremental costs don't change when you unblock all seats. So it would make no sense for them to offer fewer flights if they unblock seats.

My points about EWR and LAX are with respect to fighting for gate access. At EWR, Looking at NK's # of flights is important, because they are the only other airline looking to get additional gate resources. Obviously up to this point, NK has only got 1 additional gate whereas B6 got possibly 5 more. But it certainly would not be surprising if NK ends up with more gates than that in the new T-1. And at LAX, the fewer flights AA has at T-5, the more likely it is for JetBlue to take over the non-AA gates once the ULCCs move out.


As for EWR the numbers shift a little bit when you look at the end of November. UA has 182 peak day departures. B6 35, NK 23. NK will definitely need more than 3 gates for this schedule so similar to during July they will use the B common use gates. Once terminal 1 opens, I think things will get a little dicey.
AA should take 6 gates
AS 2 + 1 common use
AC 2 + 1 common use
B6 10 + X common use gates?
Will NK make the move? DL has expressed interest. F9 also isn’t too happy with the timing of their flights having to use B.


NK will have no problem doing 23 flights in 3 gates. They routinely did 9 turns per gate at LAX. B6 appears to have way too many gates for the schedule they run now. Which means they are hoarding gates in preparation for the move into T-1 and also have more expansion in mind. d I don't see AS needing that much gate resource if they just gave up one of their gates to B6.

The advantage that JetBlue has over NK is just the high operating cost out of EWR. NK is apparently paying $11 million per year on lease for 3 gates, which works out to be close to $1 million a month or 30k a day. I think the cost of real estate in addition to JetBlue's relationship with PA is probably what allowed them to add the additional gates. It's certainly in their best interest and UA's best interest to keep NK from leasing more gates.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 6524
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:41 pm

tphuang wrote:
That argument would only working if unblocking seats would reduce the number of flights they would offer. There is no evidence of that. For example, they didn't cancel more flights when they increased seat cap from 60 to 70%.


WN, AS, & DL have all said they are operating more flights because of seat blocking. A seat cap change from 60% to 70%, is minimal.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:47 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
tphuang wrote:
That argument would only working if unblocking seats would reduce the number of flights they would offer. There is no evidence of that. For example, they didn't cancel more flights when they increased seat cap from 60 to 70%.


WN, AS, & DL have all said they are operating more flights because of seat blocking. A seat cap change from 60% to 70%, is minimal.


B6 have not said it, because they are hitting seat cap on so few of their non-VFR flights out of NYC. AA said apparently 45% of their flights had 80% load factor or something like that. JetBlue said only 10% of their flights system wide were hitting the 70% seat cap. Right now, they are making cuts as close as 1 to 2 weeks out based on whether they think there will be enough booking to cover incremental cost. And out of EWR, the only route they run enough flights right now to combine into fewer flight is probably EWR-MCO. Most of their EWR routes after cuts are sub weekly to up to 3 flights on peak days. Those you really can't combine into fewer flights.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 867
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:33 pm

tphuang wrote:
Finally got a different type of news to report. Looks like they have reached agreement on a TA for FAs. Would now need ratification.
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=71189


The TA will be released for viewing Monday afternoon, supposed to be voted on before Thanksgiving. Should be very interesting to see what kind of contract gets negotiated in the middle of a black swan event.
 
Brianpr3
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:34 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:38 pm

Quarrentine order removed for ny state
But a modified quarrentine and testing before departure
https://www.radio.com/1010wins/news/ny- ... ting-cuomo
 
tphuang
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:59 pm

That's basically what JetBlue management was asking for in the earnings call.

Given the level of infection around the country, I'm not sure JetBlue can expect anything better than this from Cuomo. They did make an announcement with new routes when CT updated their travel protocols to include testing. Apparently, their new routes out of BDL are performing above expectations. They also mentioned that CA transcon routes performed better after CA was dropped from NY quarantine list. So I would imagine this type of quarantine changes will help with demand out of JFK.

So I wonder if they will make another special announcement in the next week or so. I'm sure they have saved a few route announcements out of JFK for after the AA partnership gets finalized. Maybe they can announce a couple of the routes sooner to help spread the word to public of the changes to the quarantine protocol. Since holiday season is right ahead, they have plenty of reasons to send the word out now.
 
StinkyPinky
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:03 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:32 am

Any idea or hints mentioned as to when B6 and AA expect the codeshare to be approved?
 
Blerg
Posts: 5269
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:36 am

Brianpr3 wrote:
Quarrentine order removed for ny state
But a modified quarrentine and testing before departure
https://www.radio.com/1010wins/news/ny- ... ting-cuomo


That website is blocked in Europe, could you let us know what it means?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2002
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:24 pm

Is JetBlue not expecting an increase in demand around Christmas time? For that whole week all I see is decreases.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3999
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:06 pm

Blerg wrote:
Brianpr3 wrote:
Quarrentine order removed for ny state
But a modified quarrentine and testing before departure
https://www.radio.com/1010wins/news/ny- ... ting-cuomo


That website is blocked in Europe, could you let us know what it means?


That site is geo-restricted to the USA only. Basically, NY wants to follow the HI model in arriving with a test, or testing upon arrival to avoid a 14-day quarantine.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:55 pm

I think what you see with their December cuts is where the demand is right now. COVID numbers are skyrocketing right now. I don't see bookings will really improve unless that comes down to lower level. Unless this change with quarantine will really change demand out of NYC area airport. The only way they can get more bookings is if they add more routes that might have demand. I don't know what else they can really add except more Mexican resorts like SJD/PVR or Florida stuff like EYW or DAB or ECP.
 
Blerg
Posts: 5269
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:40 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Brianpr3 wrote:
Quarrentine order removed for ny state
But a modified quarrentine and testing before departure
https://www.radio.com/1010wins/news/ny- ... ting-cuomo


That website is blocked in Europe, could you let us know what it means?


That site is geo-restricted to the USA only. Basically, NY wants to follow the HI model in arriving with a test, or testing upon arrival to avoid a 14-day quarantine.


Thank you. So if I arrived to JFK on JU I need to present a negative PCR test?
 
evank516
Posts: 2294
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:24 am

tphuang wrote:
I think what you see with their December cuts is where the demand is right now. COVID numbers are skyrocketing right now. I don't see bookings will really improve unless that comes down to lower level. Unless this change with quarantine will really change demand out of NYC area airport. The only way they can get more bookings is if they add more routes that might have demand. I don't know what else they can really add except more Mexican resorts like SJD/PVR or Florida stuff like EYW or DAB or ECP.


And we know they won’t be going back to DAB anytime soon since they just exited the market in 2019. At least not until they have a sufficient fleet of A220s which would lower their operating costs on a route where they couldn’t get a premium during the high times of the decade.

I have to wonder how well this new arrangement will work since the average turnaround time for COVID tests in my locale on Long Island is averaging about 7-10 days as it is. And how would people get tested before arriving in NY? You can’t guarantee you will have the results on time.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 5276
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 3:39 am

Looks like residents of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Vermont and Connecticut are still totally unaffected by this. IE all states that border NY

More bad news for airlines, but they have slashed their NY schedules pretty hard anyway, so not sure how much this will effect them.
 
IdlewildJFK
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:25 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:40 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Looks like residents of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Vermont and Connecticut are still totally unaffected by this. IE all states that border NY

More bad news for airlines, but they have slashed their NY schedules pretty hard anyway, so not sure how much this will effect them.


I believe the airlines will see this as positive news. They have advocated test out options in other states over blanket 14 day quarantines.

I’d call it slightly better than the previous plan overall. Sure states that were exempted before that didn’t border NY like CA have moved backwards with the new plan. But for nearly 40 states, districts, and territories, this is better than before. I’m thinking FL alone from NY could outweigh the few non border exempted states that could see decreases in travel.

Again I wouldn’t, nor do I think the airlines will call this their ideal plan - but I’m sure they at least see it as positive based on the comments they have said publicly about favoring test out over blanket restrictions.

I guess the OAG thread over the coming weeks will be interesting to see if airlines are adding NY back at faster rates than they are now. With LGA offering free testing - that could incentivize people to select LGA knowing they can get a test for free after arrival.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6667
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:53 am

IdlewildJFK wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Looks like residents of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Vermont and Connecticut are still totally unaffected by this. IE all states that border NY

More bad news for airlines, but they have slashed their NY schedules pretty hard anyway, so not sure how much this will effect them.


I believe the airlines will see this as positive news. They have advocated test out options in other states over blanket 14 day quarantines.

I’d call it slightly better than the previous plan overall. Sure states that were exempted before that didn’t border NY like CA have moved backwards with the new plan. But for nearly 40 states, districts, and territories, this is better than before. I’m thinking FL alone from NY could outweigh the few non border exempted states that could see decreases in travel.

Again I wouldn’t, nor do I think the airlines will call this their ideal plan - but I’m sure they at least see it as positive based on the comments they have said publicly about favoring test out over blanket restrictions.

I guess the OAG thread over the coming weeks will be interesting to see if airlines are adding NY back at faster rates than they are now. With LGA offering free testing - that could incentivize people to select LGA knowing they can get a test for free after arrival.


I actually think this will help the New York to Florida people that have two homes.

It will allow people to easily transit.

But for tourists this is almost a step backward.

One Covid test would have been an improvement…No one wants to take a Covid test away from home when they aren’t showing any symptoms… Because there’s a chance they may test positive and be far away from home for two weeks quarantined with no symptoms.

I would say EWR could continue to benefit from this, But just last week the governor there tossed out the possibility of another state wide shut down.

The aviation hubs that are going to come out of this best are the sunbelt hubs. They have surges in cases but they keep pressing forward economically.

I am of the belief that for the city of New York it is going to take years to recover from this disaster. B6 sees this and is diversifying its route network accordingly
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1544
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:34 pm

evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think what you see with their December cuts is where the demand is right now. COVID numbers are skyrocketing right now. I don't see bookings will really improve unless that comes down to lower level. Unless this change with quarantine will really change demand out of NYC area airport. The only way they can get more bookings is if they add more routes that might have demand. I don't know what else they can really add except more Mexican resorts like SJD/PVR or Florida stuff like EYW or DAB or ECP.


And we know they won’t be going back to DAB anytime soon since they just exited the market in 2019. At least not until they have a sufficient fleet of A220s which would lower their operating costs on a route where they couldn’t get a premium during the high times of the decade.

I have to wonder how well this new arrangement will work since the average turnaround time for COVID tests in my locale on Long Island is averaging about 7-10 days as it is. And how would people get tested before arriving in NY? You can’t guarantee you will have the results on time.

Walgreens is offering rapid tests in many places. It’s getting easier to get a COVID test and the results in time for travel.
 
evank516
Posts: 2294
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:16 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think what you see with their December cuts is where the demand is right now. COVID numbers are skyrocketing right now. I don't see bookings will really improve unless that comes down to lower level. Unless this change with quarantine will really change demand out of NYC area airport. The only way they can get more bookings is if they add more routes that might have demand. I don't know what else they can really add except more Mexican resorts like SJD/PVR or Florida stuff like EYW or DAB or ECP.


And we know they won’t be going back to DAB anytime soon since they just exited the market in 2019. At least not until they have a sufficient fleet of A220s which would lower their operating costs on a route where they couldn’t get a premium during the high times of the decade.

I have to wonder how well this new arrangement will work since the average turnaround time for COVID tests in my locale on Long Island is averaging about 7-10 days as it is. And how would people get tested before arriving in NY? You can’t guarantee you will have the results on time.

Walgreens is offering rapid tests in many places. It’s getting easier to get a COVID test and the results in time for travel.


But do you have to meet eligibility requirements to get the test?
 
bomber996
Posts: 544
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:21 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:42 pm

evank516 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
evank516 wrote:

And we know they won’t be going back to DAB anytime soon since they just exited the market in 2019. At least not until they have a sufficient fleet of A220s which would lower their operating costs on a route where they couldn’t get a premium during the high times of the decade.

I have to wonder how well this new arrangement will work since the average turnaround time for COVID tests in my locale on Long Island is averaging about 7-10 days as it is. And how would people get tested before arriving in NY? You can’t guarantee you will have the results on time.

Walgreens is offering rapid tests in many places. It’s getting easier to get a COVID test and the results in time for travel.


But do you have to meet eligibility requirements to get the test?


Most places if you don't have symptoms or haven't had known contact with someone who has COVID you can still pay for a test out of pocket if insurance doesn't cover it.

Peace :box:
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1544
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:26 pm

bomber996 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
Walgreens is offering rapid tests in many places. It’s getting easier to get a COVID test and the results in time for travel.


But do you have to meet eligibility requirements to get the test?


Most places if you don't have symptoms or haven't had known contact with someone who has COVID you can still pay for a test out of pocket if insurance doesn't cover it.

Peace :box:

To meet the requirement, all you have to do is live in or visit a place that has experienced community spread. As that’s essentially the entire United States, essentially everyone would be eligible.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:55 pm

In the earnings call, JetBlue management spoke extensively about the need to have quick (think 15 to 30 minutes result), convenient and inexpensive testing in airports. On top of that, I think they would need the state gov't to create a process that's travel friendly. As you can see from this CF story https://crankyflier.com/2020/11/03/pre- ... /#comments, HI's new testing program is still a work in progress. So while it's good to have a first step here with NY state, I don't think travel demand will change materially until the testing program improves a lot more.

Also, I noticed on the Central America thread that Eastern Airlines is starting JFK-GUA. It seems like a missed opportunity here by B6 to not start JFK-GUA at the same time as GEO. I hope they change that soon.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 867
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:16 pm

The tentative agreement for the jetblue Flight Attendant contract is awful, there is no way it passes. It calls for pay cuts now, no raise or even cost of living raise for the next two years and amounts to something like a 3 dollar raise 5 years from now. And thats at top of the pay scale, its less for less senior people. I.E. not even keeping up with inflation after 5 years. I'm kind of shocked its even being presented. But what can be expected in the middle of a boogeyman pandemic. Far better to stay status quo for the time being.
 
FARmd90
Posts: 502
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:04 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
The tentative agreement for the jetblue Flight Attendant contract is awful, there is no way it passes. It calls for pay cuts now, no raise or even cost of living raise for the next two years and amounts to something like a 3 dollar raise 5 years from now. And thats at top of the pay scale, its less for less senior people. I.E. not even keeping up with inflation after 5 years. I'm kind of shocked its even being presented. But what can be expected in the middle of a boogeyman pandemic. Far better to stay status quo for the time being.


I think that TWU is just trying to spook everyone into signing this contract because of the pandemic and how the industry is currently. I also feel like they are getting desperate for their dues so they want to hurry up as well.
So far everyone that I’ve talked with has said no to the contract.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:41 pm

Could also be that the TWU wants it to be rejected overwhelmingly, say like 90-10, so they can go back to the table and say now let’s get serious?
 
Poorpilot
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:59 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:44 am

I’m not really sure what the FA TA has to do with the network?
 
CaptCoolHand
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:55 am

Obviously a ratified FA contract would provide the company with increased savings that would allow for network expansion.

...of course that assumes any of our major hubs would open up for business in any kind of meaningful way.
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 321
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:06 pm

New tweet by Jetblue: https://twitter.com/JetBlue/status/1324 ... gr%5Etweet

Seems that the holidays will have an impact. Thats a great sign for demand from and to NYC.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:19 pm

AmericanAir88 wrote:
New tweet by Jetblue: https://twitter.com/JetBlue/status/1324 ... gr%5Etweet

Seems that the holidays will have an impact. Thats a great sign for demand from and to NYC.


That just seems like incompetence to me. Why did they cut back so much in previous week when there always appeared to be a lot of demand around holidays but a lot less in early Nov/Dec?
 
IdlewildJFK
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:25 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:26 pm

tphuang wrote:
AmericanAir88 wrote:
New tweet by Jetblue: https://twitter.com/JetBlue/status/1324 ... gr%5Etweet

Seems that the holidays will have an impact. Thats a great sign for demand from and to NYC.


That just seems like incompetence to me. Why did they cut back so much in previous week when there always appeared to be a lot of demand around holidays but a lot less in early Nov/Dec?


Just a guess since the routes were NYC area specific ...maybe they are seeing a positive impact from the test out option NYS has?
 
tphuang
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:41 pm

it would certainly be great if they are adding flights because they are getting positive impact from the NYS quarantine changes. I still think the biggest driver for them will be the partnership with AA.

WN just sent WARN notices today for possible first time furlough in its history. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sout ... SKBN27M2LQ

Airlines are not seeing things improve materially. JetBlue has gone this far without issuing any WARN notices while NYC/Boston demand has been minimal. For the airline and all the employees, I sincerely hope things turn around.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6667
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:33 am

tphuang wrote:
it would certainly be great if they are adding flights because they are getting positive impact from the NYS quarantine changes. I still think the biggest driver for them will be the partnership with AA.

WN just sent WARN notices today for possible first time furlough in its history. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sout ... SKBN27M2LQ

Airlines are not seeing things improve materially. JetBlue has gone this far without issuing any WARN notices while NYC/Boston demand has been minimal. For the airline and all the employees, I sincerely hope things turn around.


In all fairness, they got rid of a huge amount of employees voluntarily.

I think 20 to 25% of their employees are gone or on leave
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2268
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:58 pm

tphuang wrote:
it would certainly be great if they are adding flights because they are getting positive impact from the NYS quarantine changes. I still think the biggest driver for them will be the partnership with AA.

WN just sent WARN notices today for possible first time furlough in its history. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sout ... SKBN27M2LQ

Airlines are not seeing things improve materially. JetBlue has gone this far without issuing any WARN notices while NYC/Boston demand has been minimal. For the airline and all the employees, I sincerely hope things turn around.


It is going to be a rough winter for the industry and 20-25% of employees at each major airline in the US will be cut. B6 is benefiting from nothing, just like the rest of the players. Word has it that the EWR expansion has been a financial hit and is on the cusp of being scaled back very substantially. The B6/AA partnership will help AA more than it will B6.
 
tphuang
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:15 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
it would certainly be great if they are adding flights because they are getting positive impact from the NYS quarantine changes. I still think the biggest driver for them will be the partnership with AA.

WN just sent WARN notices today for possible first time furlough in its history. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sout ... SKBN27M2LQ

Airlines are not seeing things improve materially. JetBlue has gone this far without issuing any WARN notices while NYC/Boston demand has been minimal. For the airline and all the employees, I sincerely hope things turn around.


It is going to be a rough winter for the industry and 20-25% of employees at each major airline in the US will be cut. B6 is benefiting from nothing, just like the rest of the players. Word has it that the EWR expansion has been a financial hit and is on the cusp of being scaled back very substantially. The B6/AA partnership will help AA more than it will B6.


All the data shows EWR has outperformed most of their other stations. They've publicly stated this in many places and just got more gates there. I'm sure that is all a sign of scaling back substantially.

If you will the partnership will benefit AA more than B6, then that's great. A partnership is only sustainable if both sides feel like they are benefiting. There is no question that finalization of that partnership will bring significantly more flying to B6. B6 said at the announcement of the deal that it will allow for 40 aircraft to be unparked. And AA has been very public in saying that they will transfer LGA slots to B6 and have B6 fly out of their gates there. And
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6667
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:42 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
it would certainly be great if they are adding flights because they are getting positive impact from the NYS quarantine changes. I still think the biggest driver for them will be the partnership with AA.

WN just sent WARN notices today for possible first time furlough in its history. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sout ... SKBN27M2LQ

Airlines are not seeing things improve materially. JetBlue has gone this far without issuing any WARN notices while NYC/Boston demand has been minimal. For the airline and all the employees, I sincerely hope things turn around.


It is going to be a rough winter for the industry and 20-25% of employees at each major airline in the US will be cut. B6 is benefiting from nothing, just like the rest of the players. Word has it that the EWR expansion has been a financial hit and is on the cusp of being scaled back very substantially. The B6/AA partnership will help AA more than it will B6.


That is not true with regards to EWR. not true at all
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6667
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:13 pm

B6 takes gates 20 21 and 22 at EWR next week per what I have been told.

Lines being painted today so sounds legit
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2002
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:16 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
B6 takes gates 20 21 and 22 at EWR next week per what I have been told.

Lines being painted today so sounds legit


I’m not expert on the infrastructure but I have noticed that some of the gates have been “lifted” almost to reach mainline aircraft.

This move makes sense now that they have packed the EWR schedule a little bit, 40 flights on peak days in November. I anticipate Christmas will be the same.
 
tu154
Posts: 366
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:37 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:38 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
B6 takes gates 20 21 and 22 at EWR next week per what I have been told.

Lines being painted today so sounds legit


I’m not expert on the infrastructure but I have noticed that some of the gates have been “lifted” almost to reach mainline aircraft.

This move makes sense now that they have packed the EWR schedule a little bit, 40 flights on peak days in November. I anticipate Christmas will be the same.



So does that mean connections, if many, will have to exit security and re enter security to get to these new JetBlue gates?
 
tphuang
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 pm

a couple of articles from today
https://www.flightglobal.com/networks/j ... 87.article
RH said London lunch next summer. He believes JetBlue's leisure travel will be largely recovered by end of 2021 and summer of 2021 will have a lot of pent up demand. I guess we will see. That's certainly quite optimistic.

https://skift.com/2020/11/11/jetblue-to ... offerings/
more investment in their JetBlue travel products business to expand into short term rental. It seems pretty risky to get into non core business right now, but what do I know.
 
WN732
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:46 am

tphuang wrote:
a couple of articles from today
https://www.flightglobal.com/networks/j ... 87.article
RH said London lunch next summer. He believes JetBlue's leisure travel will be largely recovered by end of 2021 and summer of 2021 will have a lot of pent up demand. I guess we will see. That's certainly quite optimistic.

https://skift.com/2020/11/11/jetblue-to ... offerings/
more investment in their JetBlue travel products business to expand into short term rental. It seems pretty risky to get into non core business right now, but what do I know.


I could definitely see leisure travel explode once a vaccine is widely distributed. We can already see folks willing to risk traveling now, but imagine what it will be like when there's actually a vaccine. People are going through travel withdrawal and are exhausted with being at home. Leisure fares won't pay all of the bills and business travel on the other hand will be stagnant.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1346
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:20 pm

tphuang wrote:
a couple of articles from today
https://www.flightglobal.com/networks/j ... 87.article
RH said London lunch next summer. He believes JetBlue's leisure travel will be largely recovered by end of 2021 and summer of 2021 will have a lot of pent up demand. I guess we will see. That's certainly quite optimistic.

https://skift.com/2020/11/11/jetblue-to ... offerings/
more investment in their JetBlue travel products business to expand into short term rental. It seems pretty risky to get into non core business right now, but what do I know.


International travel, while it will be up from 2020, will still be well below pre-COVID numbers in 2021. I think there will be plenty of people leery about leaving the country until the vaccine(s) has been mass produced and in use enough to where we have a good understanding of its effectiveness and any potential side effects. I don't think we'll really see a bounce back in international travel until Spring 2022.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6667
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:45 pm

Looking a little more at the new gates at EWR today.

It looks like 20A 21 and 22 have lines. I guess 20B will go unused.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2002
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:37 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Looking a little more at the new gates at EWR today.

It looks like 20A 21 and 22 have lines. I guess 20B will go unused.


Will there be any news following the new gates?
 
tphuang
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:11 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Looking a little more at the new gates at EWR today.

It looks like 20A 21 and 22 have lines. I guess 20B will go unused.


Before the move to terminal 1, they probably don't need more gates than that. Maybe the unused gate will still count toward the # of gates they will get in the new terminal. Maybe this will allow them to get at least 10 preferential gates when they move in even if they don't actually use that many before the move.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2002
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:54 pm

JetBlue’s seat blocking policy doesn’t really make sense to me. It’s not worth it.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6667
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:44 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
JetBlue’s seat blocking policy doesn’t really make sense to me. It’s not worth it.


It ends in January. They apparently agree with you
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2002
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:53 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
JetBlue’s seat blocking policy doesn’t really make sense to me. It’s not worth it.


It ends in January. They apparently agree with you


I mean, why limit it at 85% capacity? It doesn’t make a difference in the first place but now they can’t even market it as seat blocking.
 
santi319
Posts: 1183
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:58 pm

Nobody in the world blocks seats but DL, B6 and WN. Honestly its just for the Karens that want a middle seat and don’t wanna pay it. 22 inches is by no means 6 feet (and you still have people front and back).
 
tphuang
Posts: 6875
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:03 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
JetBlue’s seat blocking policy doesn’t really make sense to me. It’s not worth it.


It ends in January. They apparently agree with you


I mean, why limit it at 85% capacity? It doesn’t make a difference in the first place but now they can’t even market it as seat blocking.

Have you looked at their q3 earnings. Their yield actually had the biggest increase over a year ago. For a long time, they weren’t hitting 70% capacity of many flights so they just imposed it for marketing purposes. And they got people paying more to fly them. Now that flights are filling up more, they are taking off the cap.
 
11C
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:45 am

santi319 wrote:
Nobody in the world blocks seats but DL, B6 and WN. Honestly its just for the Karens that want a middle seat and don’t wanna pay it. 22 inches is by no means 6 feet (and you still have people front and back).

All true, and then there is the cockamamie deplaning method that at least one carrier uses. One row at a time, to ensure social distancing. Right.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2002
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: JetBlue Network Thread - 2020

Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:50 am

tphuang wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:

It ends in January. They apparently agree with you


I mean, why limit it at 85% capacity? It doesn’t make a difference in the first place but now they can’t even market it as seat blocking.

Have you looked at their q3 earnings. Their yield actually had the biggest increase over a year ago. For a long time, they weren’t hitting 70% capacity of many flights so they just imposed it for marketing purposes. And they got people paying more to fly them. Now that flights are filling up more, they are taking off the cap.


They are taking off the cap a month too late. It should be lifted December 1st, when demand is there, instead of Jan.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos