Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 21
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11137
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:45 am

Welcome to Boston Aviation Thread 2020. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to last thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1411815&start=2700
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
ChrisNH38
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:53 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:02 pm

With respect to BOS, I think the 787-8 is a perfect plane for El Al, in the same way it is for RAM.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:41 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
With respect to BOS, I think the 787-8 is a perfect plane for El Al, in the same way it is for RAM.


Agreed, I wish they would up their frequency a little, but I guess the current demand works for the schedule.

Separately a happy new year to everyone on our thread, lots to come I am sure..
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3197
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:24 pm

Silver Airways bid on the PQI EAS service proposing PQI-BOS. One of the key differences in the comparison between AS/SEA and B6/BOS is the regional feed. AS has a much better sized regional feeder with Horizon, whereas with B6 its a 9-Seat Cape Air or a 100-Seat E190 and nothing in between. A Saab 340 could provide good B6 feed and fill in some routes like BTV BGR and ISP and perhaps ALB which are unserved from BOS and supplement the morning E190s for placed like SYR and ROC.

This would help BOS to be more hub-like for B6 and provide a good revenue boost, however the downside is it would take up 2-3 valuable gates for flights with low seat counts.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
airbazar
Posts: 10178
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:21 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
This morning I got dropped off at arrivals again. Works for me. The Lyft driver told me Central Parking is for pick ups only.

Interesting. I arrived late last night on UA (half past midnight), and while waiting for the shuttle at the curb I saw 2 Uber pick-ups. I didn't think they were allowed to pickup at the curb unless for handicapped passengers which these people didn't appear to be.
adamh8297 wrote:
We have overlooked that BOS-DEN is a 4 airline market and all 4 had loads over 92% in Q3 2019.

DL needs to enter this route. What is the 4th airline? I only see UA, B6, and WN.
adamh8297 wrote:
Looks like S4 is already caving in a bit to TP's service. It doesn't look like the two Portuguese carriers are codesharing right now either.

S4 is facing serious financial problems. I'm actually surprised they have lasted this long. They just hired a new president and are going to embark on a "painful" restructuring.
B752OS wrote:
How is it Boston cannot sustain service to Mexico City on AM, but YUL is? It looks like on some days AM runs MEX-YUL twice a day.

I can only speculate on this so I'll take a stab:
1) There are many U.S. hubs between BOS and MEX but not many at all between YUL and MEX without going thru the ordeal of a U.S. immigration procedure on the way south and TWO immigration procedures on the way north. Yuck!
2) This one might be a stretch but there are no ties that I know of between Boston and Mexico City, either cultural or business. There might be some between Montreal and Mexico City by the mere fact that both speak romance languages.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1092
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:48 pm

Key new confirmed upcoming adds for BOS in 2020:

AA: AUS, LHR, seasonal: GCM, NAS, EYW

AC: seasonal YYC, YVR (resumption)
OS: VIE (seasonal - did not know this was seasonal!)
DL: LGW, FCO & MAN (seasonal)
Seasonal resumptions: LIS, EDI, DUB
WS: YYC (seasonal)
LV: ORY (seasonal)
F9: SJU
SY: GSP
TAP: PDL

Key retrenchments/route closures known at this time:

WN: ATL, MCI

B6: MEX


Hope 2020 is a great year for BOS! Thanks for everyone in this thread to pull another great 2019!
Last edited by iyerhari on Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1092
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:52 pm

airbazar wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
We have overlooked that BOS-DEN is a 4 airline market and all 4 had loads over 92% in Q3 2019.

DL needs to enter this route. What is the 4th airline? I only see UA, B6, and WN.

F9 has a seasonal service to DEN if I am not mistaken.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:15 pm

My predictions for B6 this year at BOS as per JetBlue thread.
Expect them to get close to 200 flights sometimes in Q3 2020 and reach that in March 2021. Once they get to that point, announcement for BOS250 at about the same time they get access to the 4 new gates + London flights get scheduled in.

New routes:
IND/CMH/STL/SDF/MEM - I expect one to two of these to be announced
BZN - Saturday service here in winter time
EYW - Saturday service here also in winter time with A220-300
PTP - Saturday service here in winter time
Cuts:
PSP - Can't see how this lasts much longer
Longer season for seasonals:
PDX - this goes year round with arrival of A220
SMF, OAK
More frequencies
Shuttle like service to LGA, EWR, PHL, ORD and DCA announced with improved service offering and schedule.
IAH, DFW - More flights here, their last 2 major business markets with lackluster schedule.

Aircraft changes
- more A321s for BOS-Florida/SJU/island markets
- first A220 routes will be AUS and BWI. This will be followed by PDX, MSY, ATL, MSP, BNA, IAH and DFW
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:58 pm

iyerhari wrote:
airbazar wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
We have overlooked that BOS-DEN is a 4 airline market and all 4 had loads over 92% in Q3 2019.

DL needs to enter this route. What is the 4th airline? I only see UA, B6, and WN.

F9 has a seasonal service to DEN if I am not mistaken.


That is correct. 4x weekly 1,3,5 and 6
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
jakeroberts212
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:13 pm

iyerhari wrote:
Key new confirmed upcoming adds for BOS in 2020:

AA: AUS, LHR, seasonal: GCM, NAS, EYW

AC: seasonal YYC, YVR (resumption)
OS: VIE (seasonal - did not know this was seasonal!)
DL: LGW, FCO & MAN (seasonal)
Seasonal resumptions: LIS, EDI, DUB
WS: YYC (seasonal)
LV: ORY (seasonal)
F9: SJU
SY: GSP
TAP: PDL

Key retrenchments/route closures known at this time:

WN: ATL, MCI

B6: MEX


Hope 2020 is a great year for BOS! Thanks for everyone in this thread to pull another great 2019!


Just curious where you’re seeing the OS flight being seasonal? I didn’t see that mentioned in the LH Group press release.

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/press ... rvice.html
 
OneX123
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:08 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:19 pm

I flew AA out of Boston for the first time in a while yesterday (I'm typically DL) and I was amazed at what they've done with terminal B. High ceilings, tons of windows & natural light, beautiful architecture, and tons and tons of dining and drinking options. Noticed that the Admirals lounge has showers too. In a time when many say AA is cutting costs and skimping, it was an awesome sight to see.
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:21 pm

iyerhari wrote:
Key new confirmed upcoming adds for BOS in 2020:
SY: GSP


One minor correction - SY is seasonal MSN (Madison, WI) not GSP (Greenville, SC) .
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
massachoicetts
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:23 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:50 pm

My Prediction for AA in 2020

LGA: Might struggle a little bit with B6, DL here.. could reduce a frequency or two on this by year end.
AUS: I have a feeling this will do well. Eventually, the schedule might flatten at 7 departures per week with all this supply on the market.
LHR: I checked loads of AA's LHR flights and they currently sit at just about 5-10% full for BOS flights. Respective JFK and ORD flights are 30-50% full already and PHL/RDU flights are about 50%+. I know its months away but I've seen a little uptick in pax on BOS-LHR.
EYW: Will do amazing I think. This will be an awesome route.
SYR: Many say it will cut, but loads are consistently high. Times when AA's SYR flight was 50/50 and full, B6's went out with 20+ seats. I think we can ride SYR with a 50 seater/44 seater for the remainder of this year.

Future Additions
I do not think it is crazy to predict new announcements on AA's BOS opps. We got LHR, EYW, NAS and AUS in one year. That was totally unpredictable. They have one of the nicest terminals I have ever seen for an airline, and I think that's one of the many factors driving them to add more flights P2P. I predict we will see two more routes to BOS on AA this year. I really think the route with the highest probability of coming back will be SJC or SFO. When AA curt SFO in 2011, it was VERY profitable and loads were constantly 80%+. With AUS-SJC added, maybe it's not so crazy to think AA might add 14x weekly flights to SJC or SFO. Another prediction I make is that we might see a smaller route on AA where it once had a substantial market in. BNA? RDU? Maybe one of those cities 7-14 times a week. Ii don't think AA will add anymore TATL this year...
 
B752OS
Posts: 1252
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:54 pm

OneX123 wrote:
I flew AA out of Boston for the first time in a while yesterday (I'm typically DL) and I was amazed at what they've done with terminal B. High ceilings, tons of windows & natural light, beautiful architecture, and tons and tons of dining and drinking options. Noticed that the Admirals lounge has showers too. In a time when many say AA is cutting costs and skimping, it was an awesome sight to see.


Given the tight space constraints of the terminal's footprint, Massport did a really nice job with the consolidation and expansion project over on that side of B. Between United's new concourse and now this upgrade, terminal B is a pretty solid facility.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1092
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:12 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Key new confirmed upcoming adds for BOS in 2020:

AA: AUS, LHR, seasonal: GCM, NAS, EYW

AC: seasonal YYC, YVR (resumption)
OS: VIE (seasonal - did not know this was seasonal!)
DL: LGW, FCO & MAN (seasonal)
Seasonal resumptions: LIS, EDI, DUB
WS: YYC (seasonal)
LV: ORY (seasonal)
F9: SJU
SY: GSP
TAP: PDL

Key retrenchments/route closures known at this time:

WN: ATL, MCI

B6: MEX


Hope 2020 is a great year for BOS! Thanks for everyone in this thread to pull another great 2019!


Just curious where you’re seeing the OS flight being seasonal? I didn’t see that mentioned in the LH Group press release.

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/press ... rvice.html

Sorry I read the article and missed this. Maybe you are right and it’s year round. Thank you.,
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:25 pm

iyerhari wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Key new confirmed upcoming adds for BOS in 2020:

AA: AUS, LHR, seasonal: GCM, NAS, EYW

AC: seasonal YYC, YVR (resumption)
OS: VIE (seasonal - did not know this was seasonal!)
DL: LGW, FCO & MAN (seasonal)
Seasonal resumptions: LIS, EDI, DUB
WS: YYC (seasonal)
LV: ORY (seasonal)
F9: SJU
SY: GSP
TAP: PDL

Key retrenchments/route closures known at this time:

WN: ATL, MCI

B6: MEX


Hope 2020 is a great year for BOS! Thanks for everyone in this thread to pull another great 2019!


Just curious where you’re seeing the OS flight being seasonal? I didn’t see that mentioned in the LH Group press release.

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/press ... rvice.html

Sorry I read the article and missed this. Maybe you are right and it’s year round. Thank you.,


No, you are correct. It is seasonal and ends October 24th.
a.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:29 pm

Short of some truly bizarre circumstances, it would most definitely seem that were is no Aerflot flight from Boston today.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:31 pm

Agreed. Terminal B did undergo a metamorphosis. So much better now.
 
User avatar
brianK73
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:47 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:15 pm

I flew back from FRA on Lufthansa 422 this past Sunday (12/29). The 744 flight was almost full. What was surprising to me was, judging from the luggage on the carousel, one in every 8 bags is labeled for Newark as the final destination via Boston by my estimation. I didn't realize *A did so much transfer through Boston from Newark, the *A's fortress hub, of all places.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3197
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:32 pm

My predictions:

DL - will add 2-3 new regional markets such as GSP and SDF

AA - I think the AA adds this were were primarily non-BOS centric. The AUS AA schedule screams of winning a corp contract. LHR was a knee-jerk for DL-LATAM, and NAS/EYW represent only a couple dozen weekend utilization flights to high yield places (AA has been boosting thier EYW presence a good bit).

UA status quo unless Star needs to show access to London for their portfolio

WN - likely the casualty in the battle for AUS, I think they would consider SAT if they knew DL and B6 would just let them have it with no competition, because it can't handle multiple airlines.

B6 - My $$$ is they are going to focus on core areas to boost fares and will be very disciplined on where capacity gets added (i.e. every BWI flight 2 days from now is going for $81). IND and MEM are too small, CVG makes the most sense but its loyal DL flyers on both ends, but then again they do MSP and DTW. Might they try STL finally as one of the few large markets they are not in at all? I also think they will eventually add MIA to round out their Florida airport roster. So put me down for STL MIA CVG in that order as the next B6 cities from BOS but I think thats all you will see of significance in the next 2 years as far as new markets go.

Places like SYR and ROC could see a second frequency but the wildcard is if Silver comes in and provides B6 with some right sized regional feed to places like PQI BTV BGR and ISP
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
jakeroberts212
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:26 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:

Just curious where you’re seeing the OS flight being seasonal? I didn’t see that mentioned in the LH Group press release.

https://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/press ... rvice.html

Sorry I read the article and missed this. Maybe you are right and it’s year round. Thank you.,


No, you are correct. It is seasonal and ends October 24th.


Source?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:58 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Sorry I read the article and missed this. Maybe you are right and it’s year round. Thank you.,


No, you are correct. It is seasonal and ends October 24th.


Source?


Any GDS booking system. Seasonal service ends October 24th. You literally cannot book a flight for the route past that date.

Why would it operate in the winter anyway? It’s a non-existent local market to a smaller sized hub and Boston-Europe demand falls off a cliff come November. Already a huge wildcard if it works at all during the summer in an over served marketplace. Relatively quick stage length though which will help.
a.
 
jsteeves3
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:00 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:19 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

No, you are correct. It is seasonal and ends October 24th.


Source?


Any GDS booking system. Seasonal service ends October 24th. You literally cannot book a flight for the route past that date.

Why would it operate in the winter anyway? It’s a non-existent local market to a smaller sized hub and Boston-Europe demand falls off a cliff come November. Already a huge wildcard if it works at all during the summer in an over served marketplace. Relatively quick stage length though which will help.


I heard in a press release that they were evaluating the bookings at the time and were going to make the judgment call later maybe one the route has began to expand it to year-round service...
 
B752OS
Posts: 1252
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:29 am

A roughly 7 month run is a pretty long season. OS saw better use of the plane given their service to Miami was losing money. They're taking a shot in Boston, so hopefully it works out for them.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:04 am

B752OS wrote:
A roughly 7 month run is a pretty long season. OS saw better use of the plane given their service to Miami was losing money. They're taking a shot in Boston, so hopefully it works out for them.


It’s the standard summer season, April-October. Winter timetables run November-March. That’s literally every airline, nothing unique here.

They are taking a shot having moved the Miami and some Los Angeles capacity to Boston, and while Miami and La are just as overserved as Boston and suffer the same overcapacity, they are triple the local market to Vienna than Boston is. Though Miami and Los Angeles have Aeroflot, Finnair and LOT, which compete in key overflow markets to Eastern Europe/Russia, and Boston has none of those which will be advantageous to Austrian. And, as I’ve mentioned before, Boston’s proximity to Europe means it can tolerate the overcapacity it has to the market better than the overserved California and Florida markets.
a.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:52 am

iyerhari wrote:
Key new confirmed upcoming adds for BOS in 2020:

AA: AUS, LHR, seasonal: GCM, NAS, EYW

AC: seasonal YYC, YVR (resumption)
OS: VIE (seasonal - did not know this was seasonal!)
DL: LGW, FCO & MAN (seasonal)
Seasonal resumptions: LIS, EDI, DUB
WS: YYC (seasonal)
LV: ORY (seasonal)
F9: SJU
SY: GSP
TAP: PDL

Key retrenchments/route closures known at this time:

WN: ATL, MCI

B6: MEX


Hope 2020 is a great year for BOS! Thanks for everyone in this thread to pull another great 2019!


The only one you missed is VR adding a 1 weekly to SID in a triangle pattern with RAI

I've added the frequency and Start date, note the SID and SJU flights actually just started in December, next up is GCM on AA.

New Routes
Route Airline Frequency Date
BOS-SID VR 1 Weekly 14-Dec
BOS-SJU F9 Daily 19-Dec
BOS-GCM AA 1 Weekly 11-Jan
BOS-EYW AA 1 Weekly 15-Feb
BOS-LHR AA 1 Daily 29-Mar
BOS-VIE OS 6 Weekly 29-Mar
BOS-ORY LV 3 Weekly 31-Mar
BOS-AUS AA 2 Daily 7-Apr
BOS-MSN SY 2 Weekly 7-May
BOS-YYC WS Daily 14-May
BOS-FCO DL Daily 21-May
BOS-LGW DL Daily 21-May
BOS-MAN DL Daily 21-May
BOS-PDL TP 5 Weekly 4-Jun
BOS-YYC AC Daily 22-Jun
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3716
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:24 am

RL757PVD wrote:
B6 - IND and MEM are too small, CVG makes the most sense but its loyal DL flyers on both ends, but then again they do MSP and DTW. So put me down for STL MIA CVG in that order as the next B6 cities from BOS but I think thats all you will see of significance in the next 2 years as far as new markets go.


I agree about B6 possibly adding BOS-CVG nonstop service with CVG being the only DL hub or focus city airport that isn't currently served by B6.

While WN considered adding BOS-CVG nonstop service almost 2 years ago, WN is less likely to add BOS-CVG nonstop service due to cuts that WN has recently made at BOS, including WN dropping BOS-ATL/IND/MCI/MKE and WN reducing BOS-AUS/DAL to seasonal nonstop service.

F9 adding BOS-CVG nonstop service might be a possibility, but F9 adding BOS-CVG nonstop service is less likely with F9 not operating LGA-CVG and PHL-CVG nonstop service in Summer 2020.

While AA adding BOS-CVG nonstop service might be a possibility with AA having a few p2p nonstop routes out of BOS, AA is unlikely to add BOS-CVG nonstop service with all of AA's current nonstop service out of CVG being to AA hubs and with BOS-AUS/EYW being the only AA p2p nonstop routes out of BOS to domestic destinations outside of the Northeast.

Even though SY doesn't currently serve CVG, SY adding BOS-CVG nonstop service might be a possibility if SY adds service to CVG since SY had previously considered adding service to CVG and since SY is going to be serving MSN nonstop from BOS in addition to MSP.

B6 adding BOS-CVG also makes sense in order to defend against AA, F9, WN, or SY possibly adding BOS-CVG nonstop service, even if none of the 4 carriers is currently likely to add BOS-CVG nonstop service. BOS is also one of the top domestic destinations that currently lack nonstop LCC service out of CVG.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1092
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:04 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
B752OS wrote:
A roughly 7 month run is a pretty long season. OS saw better use of the plane given their service to Miami was losing money. They're taking a shot in Boston, so hopefully it works out for them.


It’s the standard summer season, April-October. Winter timetables run November-March. That’s literally every airline, nothing unique here.

They are taking a shot having moved the Miami and some Los Angeles capacity to Boston, and while Miami and La are just as overserved as Boston and suffer the same overcapacity, they are triple the local market to Vienna than Boston is. Though Miami and Los Angeles have Aeroflot, Finnair and LOT, which compete in key overflow markets to Eastern Europe/Russia, and Boston has none of those which will be advantageous to Austrian. And, as I’ve mentioned before, Boston’s proximity to Europe means it can tolerate the overcapacity it has to the market better than the overserved California and Florida markets.

This article was published CCO Andreas Otto in https://www.austrianaviation.net/detail ... att-miami/

I used Google translation from German to English. It doesn't specifically callout seasonal aspect but some interesting insights what OS plans to accomplish from BOS.
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:50 pm

Happy 2020 - Lets see if i do better than getting one prediction of route announcements right... here goes nothing

B6 Transatlantic announcements
BOS-LGW/DUB for 2021. I think they are going to tiptoe in though TP appears to have no range issues with IAD-LIS on A321neoLR right now.

Two repeats from last year
B6 BOS-ANU weekly
B6 BOS-IND - Its the largest domestic route not served by B6
I'm not confident in B6 adding anything else.

International Carriers
DY BOS-ATH 3 weekly S21 if they are still around
LY increases to 4 weekly BOS-TLV
I don't see East Asia changes unless HKG goes into utter chaos.


Delta Adds
DL BOS-MAD seasonal
DL BOS-PDX seasonal
DL BOS-DFW - The largest market from BOS that they are not in.


Adios
NK drops SJU
F9 drops RDU
OS is one year and done - increasing MUC to A380 and adding VIE wasn't a smart move by LH group.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:48 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
Happy 2020 - Lets see if i do better than getting one prediction of route announcements right... here goes nothing

B6 Transatlantic announcements
BOS-LGW/DUB for 2021. I think they are going to tiptoe in though TP appears to have no range issues with IAD-LIS on A321neoLR right now.

Two repeats from last year
B6 BOS-ANU weekly
B6 BOS-IND - Its the largest domestic route not served by B6
I'm not confident in B6 adding anything else.

International Carriers
DY BOS-ATH 3 weekly S21 if they are still around
LY increases to 4 weekly BOS-TLV
I don't see East Asia changes unless HKG goes into utter chaos.


Delta Adds
DL BOS-MAD seasonal
DL BOS-PDX seasonal
DL BOS-DFW - The largest market from BOS that they are not in.


Adios
NK drops SJU
F9 drops RDU
OS is one year and done - increasing MUC to A380 and adding VIE wasn't a smart move by LH group.


I can get on board with most of that, the interesting one is RDU, the way the F9 flights work that would impact their other operations for DEN and SJU, so unless they want to completely redo them (which they could obviously) I think that one might stay
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
jakeroberts212
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:06 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

No, you are correct. It is seasonal and ends October 24th.


Source?


Any GDS booking system. Seasonal service ends October 24th. You literally cannot book a flight for the route past that date.

Why would it operate in the winter anyway? It’s a non-existent local market to a smaller sized hub and Boston-Europe demand falls off a cliff come November. Already a huge wildcard if it works at all during the summer in an over served marketplace. Relatively quick stage length though which will help.


Is it common airlines have finalized their long haul winter ‘20 schedules already. Perhaps OS just hasn’t updated or loaded those flights?

As for BOS-Europe falling off a cliff we can agree to disagree on that one. Over the years we’ve seen carriers like AZ, IB, TP all go year round in BOS when they used to stop service for several months in the winter. In fact I can’t think of one airline that flies to Europe from BOS currently that stops service in the winter. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:24 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:

Source?


Any GDS booking system. Seasonal service ends October 24th. You literally cannot book a flight for the route past that date.

Why would it operate in the winter anyway? It’s a non-existent local market to a smaller sized hub and Boston-Europe demand falls off a cliff come November. Already a huge wildcard if it works at all during the summer in an over served marketplace. Relatively quick stage length though which will help.


Is it common airlines have finalized their long haul winter ‘20 schedules already. Perhaps OS just hasn’t updated or loaded those flights?

As for BOS-Europe falling off a cliff we can agree to disagree on that one. Over the years we’ve seen carriers like AZ, IB, TP all go year round in BOS when they used to stop service for several months in the winter. In fact I can’t think of one airline that flies to Europe from BOS currently that stops service in the winter. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.


Per the article that iyerhari posted OS have started summer seasonal as a direct replacement for the MIA service that they have stopped, in that article, it goes on to say they are assessing taking it year round, but have not committed yet. I think the summer bookings will give them an idea on this.

As for your seasonal airline to Europe, while DL flies AMS, LHR and CDG year round and will do year round with LGW, otherwise EDI, MAN, LIS, FCO, are all seasonal.
BOS tends to drop frequencies in the winter rather than complete suspensions, AZ and IB were the last legacy hold outs, although I have a suspicion AZ still give up February, but that might have changed.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10178
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:43 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
OS is one year and done - increasing MUC to A380 and adding VIE wasn't a smart move by LH group.

I'm not sure I'd agree with this. I don't think VIE and MUC will overlap too much. And MUC has been increasing while FRA has been shrinking.
Myself, my family and a good number of friends fly the BOS-MUC route multiple times a year, combined (my wife is Austrian so we have Austrian and German friends and family who fly this route). It is very difficult to find reasonable fares on that flight and it's always packed, albeit during typical vacation periods. My impression is that the supply is kept artificially low by LH. They can do that because MUC is at capacity and they know that competition is still years away, not until there is a 3rd runway. IMO the increase to A380 is simply catching up with existing demand as well as a shift in pax from FRA.
I think VIE will cater to local O&D as well as Central/Eastern European and Mediterranean connections. Greece and Croatia in particular should see strong demand from this route. OS serves a gazzillion destinations in Greece and BOS has the 2nd or 3rd largest Greek diaspora in the country and this is a very seasonal market. I understand that MUC also caters to some of those same markets but MUC also has a significant local market that should get stimulated by putting more seats on the route.
Just like TP is finding a niche in the TATL market I think OS will find it too in the seasonal Eastern and Mediterranean European market.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:59 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:

Source?


Any GDS booking system. Seasonal service ends October 24th. You literally cannot book a flight for the route past that date.

Why would it operate in the winter anyway? It’s a non-existent local market to a smaller sized hub and Boston-Europe demand falls off a cliff come November. Already a huge wildcard if it works at all during the summer in an over served marketplace. Relatively quick stage length though which will help.


Is it common airlines have finalized their long haul winter ‘20 schedules already. Perhaps OS just hasn’t updated or loaded those flights?

As for BOS-Europe falling off a cliff we can agree to disagree on that one. Over the years we’ve seen carriers like AZ, IB, TP all go year round in BOS when they used to stop service for several months in the winter. In fact I can’t think of one airline that flies to Europe from BOS currently that stops service in the winter. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.


Yes, it’s common for airlines to decide that this far in advance. There’s little to argue, traffic figures are figures and Boston-Europe drops significantly come winter outside of Christmas. That’s not unique to Boston. Every U.S.-Europe market sees this except New York and Miami.

Boston-Vienna will be interesting to see if it works. There is no local market and Austria does not stimulate easily. Los Angeles and Miami struggle/struggled for Austrian and Vienna-Miami/Los Angeles are large local markets (due to Austria point of sale). Boston is not a large market to Eastern Europe, but as if mentioned there’s no competition from LOT, Aeroflot and Finnair like at LA and Miami. There’s little harm in trying, but I doubt it lasts.
a.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:07 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
B6 - My $$$ is they are going to focus on core areas to boost fares and will be very disciplined on where capacity gets added (i.e. every BWI flight 2 days from now is going for $81). IND and MEM are too small, CVG makes the most sense but its loyal DL flyers on both ends, but then again they do MSP and DTW. Might they try STL finally as one of the few large markets they are not in at all? I also think they will eventually add MIA to round out their Florida airport roster. So put me down for STL MIA CVG in that order as the next B6 cities from BOS but I think thats all you will see of significance in the next 2 years as far as new markets go.

Places like SYR and ROC could see a second frequency but the wildcard is if Silver comes in and provides B6 with some right sized regional feed to places like PQI BTV BGR and ISP


IND-BOS is a larger market than CVG-BOS, and nearly 3x the size of MEM-BOS.

B6 & DL don't fly STL-BOS because WN operates that route 5x daily
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
georgiabill
Posts: 1254
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:53 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:33 pm

Happy New Year fellow Boston Aviation participants. A few quick questions and then my wish for future destinations.
With the issues in HKG will CX be dropping any flights from BOS? Has AT'S load factor been improving on their CMN-BOS-CMN route?

Wish list for future BOS routes
BOS-ATH-BOS summer seasonal DY or DL most likely to give it a shot 3x or 4x per week
BRU-BOS-BRU summer seasonal might go yr round eventually SN only if they get A321LR' or A321XLR and 3x or 4x per week
LIM-BOS-LIM this is the long shot but LP 3X weekly might work especially if routed SCL-LIM-BOS-LIM-SCL
Asia not sure another main land Chinese route perhaps a Chinese carrier attempting PKX-BOS-PKX, TPE BR 3x or 4x weekly especially if CX reduces flights

Domestic
WN after Max returns to service perhaps restoring AUS to daily yr round, 2x daily MKE, daily MCI when new terminal opens
B6 BOS-STL-BOS 2x

Hope you all have a great 2020.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:51 pm

georgiabill wrote:
Happy New Year fellow Boston Aviation participants. A few quick questions and then my wish for future destinations.
With the issues in HKG will CX be dropping any flights from BOS? Has AT'S load factor been improving on their CMN-BOS-CMN route?

Wish list for future BOS routes
BOS-ATH-BOS summer seasonal DY or DL most likely to give it a shot 3x or 4x per week
BRU-BOS-BRU summer seasonal might go yr round eventually SN only if they get A321LR' or A321XLR and 3x or 4x per week
LIM-BOS-LIM this is the long shot but LP 3X weekly might work especially if routed SCL-LIM-BOS-LIM-SCL
Asia not sure another main land Chinese route perhaps a Chinese carrier attempting PKX-BOS-PKX, TPE BR 3x or 4x weekly especially if CX reduces flights

Domestic
WN after Max returns to service perhaps restoring AUS to daily yr round, 2x daily MKE, daily MCI when new terminal opens
B6 BOS-STL-BOS 2x

Hope you all have a great 2020.


Answers from my standpoint:

CX - nothing mentioned yet, not even a drop in frequency has been noted anywhere, so for now, it's as you were.
AT - if anything it's been going backwards, November showed an average of 98 pax a flight...
ATH - I think there is a consensus here that ATH would be a good route, I just wonder if one of the things that OS did was try to pre-empt that with connection possibilities with the VIE flight.
BRU - again, another that has been discussed, I think the 321 would work well on this route.
LIM - hmmm tough one, that I would like to see, just to stretch the South American network a bit. Could LIM be done on a B6 321 XLR? I haven't done the mileage check to see if that would be feasible or not.

Asia - with KE's apparent success, I do wonder if there is more scope to Asia. HU's PVG and PEK routes are not setting the world on fire, JL are filling up their relatively low seat count 789's quite well (but the last round of frequency changes for NRT and HND mean that JL and NH are not considering BOS additionally, JL's only option is to move up to a 777, but again no signs of that happening either), CX, well enough have been documented about that.

BOS has been mentioned in dispatches in the SQ rumor thread, but I doubt they would turn up. BR would be nice and of the Chinese carriers, maybe CI or MU might be the ones, but with HU bagging both PVG and PEK, would the new Bejing airport also support a flight and would that be allowed under the rules.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
jakeroberts212
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:54 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Any GDS booking system. Seasonal service ends October 24th. You literally cannot book a flight for the route past that date.

Why would it operate in the winter anyway? It’s a non-existent local market to a smaller sized hub and Boston-Europe demand falls off a cliff come November. Already a huge wildcard if it works at all during the summer in an over served marketplace. Relatively quick stage length though which will help.


Is it common airlines have finalized their long haul winter ‘20 schedules already. Perhaps OS just hasn’t updated or loaded those flights?

As for BOS-Europe falling off a cliff we can agree to disagree on that one. Over the years we’ve seen carriers like AZ, IB, TP all go year round in BOS when they used to stop service for several months in the winter. In fact I can’t think of one airline that flies to Europe from BOS currently that stops service in the winter. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.


Yes, it’s common for airlines to decide that this far in advance. There’s little to argue, traffic figures are figures and Boston-Europe drops significantly come winter outside of Christmas. That’s not unique to Boston. Every U.S.-Europe market sees this except New York and Miami.

Boston-Vienna will be interesting to see if it works. There is no local market and Austria does not stimulate easily. Los Angeles and Miami struggle/struggled for Austrian and Vienna-Miami/Los Angeles are large local markets (due to Austria point of sale). Boston is not a large market to Eastern Europe, but as if mentioned there’s no competition from LOT, Aeroflot and Finnair like at LA and Miami. There’s little harm in trying, but I doubt it lasts.


Nobody is arguing with you. Because I disagree does not = an argument. Do BOS-EU traffic numbers dip in the winter. Sure. Do they “fall off a cliff” - NO. Airlines don’t extend service year round on routes that fall off a cliff. Let’s just be real - MIA absolutely sees this also. Look at London for example - AA and BA are reducing frequencies for the ‘19/‘20 Winter on what is a fortress hub-hub OW route. Don’t tell me MIA is immune to winter reductions because I just gave you an example where it happened and of all routes to Europe shouldn’t have. AA/BA dominate MIA. And guess what - they haven’t loaded back the 3rd daily BA flight for this winter or next spring, summer or fall.

They announced MIA-LHR being 5x daily Oct ‘19 - March ‘20 and yet here we are and it’s only 4x daily because bookings were so low. A380 gone during a time that is MIA’s busy season where they see no reductions?? Come back to reality :roll:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/londonairt ... miami/amp/
 
jakeroberts212
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:02 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:02 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
VS4ever wrote:
georgiabill wrote:
Happy New Year fellow Boston Aviation participants. A few quick questions and then my wish for future destinations.
With the issues in HKG will CX be dropping any flights from BOS? Has AT'S load factor been improving on their CMN-BOS-CMN route?

Wish list for future BOS routes
BOS-ATH-BOS summer seasonal DY or DL most likely to give it a shot 3x or 4x per week
BRU-BOS-BRU summer seasonal might go yr round eventually SN only if they get A321LR' or A321XLR and 3x or 4x per week
LIM-BOS-LIM this is the long shot but LP 3X weekly might work especially if routed SCL-LIM-BOS-LIM-SCL
Asia not sure another main land Chinese route perhaps a Chinese carrier attempting PKX-BOS-PKX, TPE BR 3x or 4x weekly especially if CX reduces flights

Domestic
WN after Max returns to service perhaps restoring AUS to daily yr round, 2x daily MKE, daily MCI when new terminal opens
B6 BOS-STL-BOS 2x

Hope you all have a great 2020.


Answers from my standpoint:

CX - nothing mentioned yet, not even a drop in frequency has been noted anywhere, so for now, it's as you were.
AT - if anything it's been going backwards, November showed an average of 98 pax a flight...
ATH - I think there is a consensus here that ATH would be a good route, I just wonder if one of the things that OS did was try to pre-empt that with connection possibilities with the VIE flight.
BRU - again, another that has been discussed, I think the 321 would work well on this route.
LIM - hmmm tough one, that I would like to see, just to stretch the South American network a bit. Could LIM be done on a B6 321 XLR? I haven't done the mileage check to see if that would be feasible or not.

Asia - with KE's apparent success, I do wonder if there is more scope to Asia. HU's PVG and PEK routes are not setting the world on fire, JL are filling up their relatively low seat count 789's quite well (but the last round of frequency changes for NRT and HND mean that JL and NH are not considering BOS additionally, JL's only option is to move up to a 777, but again no signs of that happening either), CX, well enough have been documented about that.

BOS has been mentioned in dispatches in the SQ rumor thread, but I doubt they would turn up. BR would be nice and of the Chinese carriers, maybe CI or MU might be the ones, but with HU bagging both PVG and PEK, would the new Bejing airport also support a flight and would that be allowed under the rules.


AT in November definitely struggled if they were only averaging 98 pax a flight. But I can’t imagine Nov being a busy travel month to Morocco. Do you happen to have data as to how BOS stacked up against AT’s other newer US markets - MIA & IAD?
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:14 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
VS4ever wrote:
georgiabill wrote:
Happy New Year fellow Boston Aviation participants. A few quick questions and then my wish for future destinations.
With the issues in HKG will CX be dropping any flights from BOS? Has AT'S load factor been improving on their CMN-BOS-CMN route?

Wish list for future BOS routes
BOS-ATH-BOS summer seasonal DY or DL most likely to give it a shot 3x or 4x per week
BRU-BOS-BRU summer seasonal might go yr round eventually SN only if they get A321LR' or A321XLR and 3x or 4x per week
LIM-BOS-LIM this is the long shot but LP 3X weekly might work especially if routed SCL-LIM-BOS-LIM-SCL
Asia not sure another main land Chinese route perhaps a Chinese carrier attempting PKX-BOS-PKX, TPE BR 3x or 4x weekly especially if CX reduces flights

Domestic
WN after Max returns to service perhaps restoring AUS to daily yr round, 2x daily MKE, daily MCI when new terminal opens
B6 BOS-STL-BOS 2x

Hope you all have a great 2020.


Answers from my standpoint:

CX - nothing mentioned yet, not even a drop in frequency has been noted anywhere, so for now, it's as you were.
AT - if anything it's been going backwards, November showed an average of 98 pax a flight...
ATH - I think there is a consensus here that ATH would be a good route, I just wonder if one of the things that OS did was try to pre-empt that with connection possibilities with the VIE flight.
BRU - again, another that has been discussed, I think the 321 would work well on this route.
LIM - hmmm tough one, that I would like to see, just to stretch the South American network a bit. Could LIM be done on a B6 321 XLR? I haven't done the mileage check to see if that would be feasible or not.

Asia - with KE's apparent success, I do wonder if there is more scope to Asia. HU's PVG and PEK routes are not setting the world on fire, JL are filling up their relatively low seat count 789's quite well (but the last round of frequency changes for NRT and HND mean that JL and NH are not considering BOS additionally, JL's only option is to move up to a 777, but again no signs of that happening either), CX, well enough have been documented about that.

BOS has been mentioned in dispatches in the SQ rumor thread, but I doubt they would turn up. BR would be nice and of the Chinese carriers, maybe CI or MU might be the ones, but with HU bagging both PVG and PEK, would the new Bejing airport also support a flight and would that be allowed under the rules.


AT in November definitely struggled if they were only averaging 98 pax a flight. But I can’t imagine Nov being a busy travel month to Morocco. Do you happen to have data as to how BOS stacked up against AT’s other newer US markets - MIA & IAD?


For November no, because I figured it out from Massport's numbers, MIA and IAD have not released their numbers yet, to do a comparative. Once they get released, if I remember, I will go back and check.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1252
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:26 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:

Is it common airlines have finalized their long haul winter ‘20 schedules already. Perhaps OS just hasn’t updated or loaded those flights?

As for BOS-Europe falling off a cliff we can agree to disagree on that one. Over the years we’ve seen carriers like AZ, IB, TP all go year round in BOS when they used to stop service for several months in the winter. In fact I can’t think of one airline that flies to Europe from BOS currently that stops service in the winter. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.


Yes, it’s common for airlines to decide that this far in advance. There’s little to argue, traffic figures are figures and Boston-Europe drops significantly come winter outside of Christmas. That’s not unique to Boston. Every U.S.-Europe market sees this except New York and Miami.

Boston-Vienna will be interesting to see if it works. There is no local market and Austria does not stimulate easily. Los Angeles and Miami struggle/struggled for Austrian and Vienna-Miami/Los Angeles are large local markets (due to Austria point of sale). Boston is not a large market to Eastern Europe, but as if mentioned there’s no competition from LOT, Aeroflot and Finnair like at LA and Miami. There’s little harm in trying, but I doubt it lasts.


Nobody is arguing with you. Because I disagree does not = an argument. Do BOS-EU traffic numbers dip in the winter. Sure. Do they “fall off a cliff” - NO. Airlines don’t extend service year round on routes that fall off a cliff. Let’s just be real - MIA absolutely sees this also. Look at London for example - AA and BA are reducing frequencies for the ‘19/‘20 Winter on what is a fortress hub-hub OW route. Don’t tell me MIA is immune to winter reductions because I just gave you an example where it happened and of all routes to Europe shouldn’t have. AA/BA dominate MIA. And guess what - they haven’t loaded back the 3rd daily BA flight for this winter or next spring, summer or fall.

They announced MIA-LHR being 5x daily Oct ‘19 - March ‘20 and yet here we are and it’s only 4x daily because bookings were so low. A380 gone during a time that is MIA’s busy season where they see no reductions?? Come back to reality :roll:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/londonairt ... miami/amp/


New York is, well, New York. So it's not a shock their demand is strong year round. One thing Miami has is a large amount of tourist demand from Europe - this is how airlines are able to fill the majority of seats between Miami and Europe. More people in Poland want to travel to Miami in January than they do to say Chicago, or Seattle. So it's not surprising Miami's European traffic fares better than Boston, DC, Seattle, Denver, etc. from December to March. I was surprised to see Aeroflot runs SVO-MIA at only 4 x weekly, AY runs HEL-MIA at only 3 weekly and LO runs WAW-MIA at only 3 weekly. I figure they would be at daily, or almost daily. This signals the leisure nature of who is filling these flights.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1252
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:37 pm

In 2020, I don't think we're going to see a whole lot of international expansion. I think we might see some carriers either cut service all together, or go down to seasonal. I can only see Delta adding some more Western Europe routes using 752s - Brussels being a prime target.

Domestic side we won't see JetBlue enter any new markets until 2021.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:26 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
jakeroberts212 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:

Is it common airlines have finalized their long haul winter ‘20 schedules already. Perhaps OS just hasn’t updated or loaded those flights?

As for BOS-Europe falling off a cliff we can agree to disagree on that one. Over the years we’ve seen carriers like AZ, IB, TP all go year round in BOS when they used to stop service for several months in the winter. In fact I can’t think of one airline that flies to Europe from BOS currently that stops service in the winter. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.


Yes, it’s common for airlines to decide that this far in advance. There’s little to argue, traffic figures are figures and Boston-Europe drops significantly come winter outside of Christmas. That’s not unique to Boston. Every U.S.-Europe market sees this except New York and Miami.

Boston-Vienna will be interesting to see if it works. There is no local market and Austria does not stimulate easily. Los Angeles and Miami struggle/struggled for Austrian and Vienna-Miami/Los Angeles are large local markets (due to Austria point of sale). Boston is not a large market to Eastern Europe, but as if mentioned there’s no competition from LOT, Aeroflot and Finnair like at LA and Miami. There’s little harm in trying, but I doubt it lasts.


Nobody is arguing with you. Because I disagree does not = an argument. Do BOS-EU traffic numbers dip in the winter. Sure. Do they “fall off a cliff” - NO. Airlines don’t extend service year round on routes that fall off a cliff. Let’s just be real - MIA absolutely sees this also. Look at London for example - AA and BA are reducing frequencies for the ‘19/‘20 Winter on what is a fortress hub-hub OW route. Don’t tell me MIA is immune to winter reductions because I just gave you an example where it happened and of all routes to Europe shouldn’t have. AA/BA dominate MIA. And guess what - they haven’t loaded back the 3rd daily BA flight for this winter or next spring, summer or fall.

They announced MIA-LHR being 5x daily Oct ‘19 - March ‘20 and yet here we are and it’s only 4x daily because bookings were so low. A380 gone during a time that is MIA’s busy season where they see no reductions?? Come back to reality :roll:
H

https://www.google.com/amp/s/londonairt ... miami/amp/


Huh? Last winter AA/BA operates 3x daily and this winter is the 4x. BA did add a third flight this past summer but following G&E issues, during the winter it decided to not operate the third flight and AA operates the second flight again instead. Next summer it will bring back the A380 to make up for the lost capacity, but AA is extending its 2nd flight. Miami is the exception because Europe-oringating to Miami peaks in winter but Miami-oringinating to Europe peaks in summer. Stop making stuff up and use context.

Regardless, Miami-Europe, like Boston-Europe, has too much capacity and is overserved. Both will see the axe fall. LA and SF, too.

They used to charge money to post here. They really need to start doing that again.
Last edited by MAH4546 on Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:47 pm, edited 6 times in total.
a.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:28 pm

B752OS wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Yes, it’s common for airlines to decide that this far in advance. There’s little to argue, traffic figures are figures and Boston-Europe drops significantly come winter outside of Christmas. That’s not unique to Boston. Every U.S.-Europe market sees this except New York and Miami.

Boston-Vienna will be interesting to see if it works. There is no local market and Austria does not stimulate easily. Los Angeles and Miami struggle/struggled for Austrian and Vienna-Miami/Los Angeles are large local markets (due to Austria point of sale). Boston is not a large market to Eastern Europe, but as if mentioned there’s no competition from LOT, Aeroflot and Finnair like at LA and Miami. There’s little harm in trying, but I doubt it lasts.


Nobody is arguing with you. Because I disagree does not = an argument. Do BOS-EU traffic numbers dip in the winter. Sure. Do they “fall off a cliff” - NO. Airlines don’t extend service year round on routes that fall off a cliff. Let’s just be real - MIA absolutely sees this also. Look at London for example - AA and BA are reducing frequencies for the ‘19/‘20 Winter on what is a fortress hub-hub OW route. Don’t tell me MIA is immune to winter reductions because I just gave you an example where it happened and of all routes to Europe shouldn’t have. AA/BA dominate MIA. And guess what - they haven’t loaded back the 3rd daily BA flight for this winter or next spring, summer or fall.

They announced MIA-LHR being 5x daily Oct ‘19 - March ‘20 and yet here we are and it’s only 4x daily because bookings were so low. A380 gone during a time that is MIA’s busy season where they see no reductions?? Come back to reality :roll:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/londonairt ... miami/amp/


New York is, well, New York. So it's not a shock their demand is strong year round. One thing Miami has is a large amount of tourist demand from Europe - this is how airlines are able to fill the majority of seats between Miami and Europe. More people in Poland want to travel to Miami in January than they do to say Chicago, or Seattle. So it's not surprising Miami's European traffic fares better than Boston, DC, Seattle, Denver, etc. from December to March. I was surprised to see Aeroflot runs SVO-MIA at only 4 x weekly, AY runs HEL-MIA at only 3 weekly and LO runs WAW-MIA at only 3 weekly. I figure they would be at daily, or almost daily. This signals the leisure nature of who is filling these flights.


Aeroflot is 5x a week and LOT is 4x a week, but yes, it’s largely leisure and largely local so frequency isn’t as important.
a.
 
B752OS
Posts: 1252
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:51 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
B752OS wrote:
jakeroberts212 wrote:

Nobody is arguing with you. Because I disagree does not = an argument. Do BOS-EU traffic numbers dip in the winter. Sure. Do they “fall off a cliff” - NO. Airlines don’t extend service year round on routes that fall off a cliff. Let’s just be real - MIA absolutely sees this also. Look at London for example - AA and BA are reducing frequencies for the ‘19/‘20 Winter on what is a fortress hub-hub OW route. Don’t tell me MIA is immune to winter reductions because I just gave you an example where it happened and of all routes to Europe shouldn’t have. AA/BA dominate MIA. And guess what - they haven’t loaded back the 3rd daily BA flight for this winter or next spring, summer or fall.

They announced MIA-LHR being 5x daily Oct ‘19 - March ‘20 and yet here we are and it’s only 4x daily because bookings were so low. A380 gone during a time that is MIA’s busy season where they see no reductions?? Come back to reality :roll:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/londonairt ... miami/amp/


New York is, well, New York. So it's not a shock their demand is strong year round. One thing Miami has is a large amount of tourist demand from Europe - this is how airlines are able to fill the majority of seats between Miami and Europe. More people in Poland want to travel to Miami in January than they do to say Chicago, or Seattle. So it's not surprising Miami's European traffic fares better than Boston, DC, Seattle, Denver, etc. from December to March. I was surprised to see Aeroflot runs SVO-MIA at only 4 x weekly, AY runs HEL-MIA at only 3 weekly and LO runs WAW-MIA at only 3 weekly. I figure they would be at daily, or almost daily. This signals the leisure nature of who is filling these flights.


Aeroflot is 5x a week and LOT is 4x a week, but yes, it’s largely leisure and largely local so frequency isn’t as important.


Does it turn into 5 x weekly for a portion of the year? I was just looking at flight aware and see flights operate Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday on the Miami to Moscow end.


Has anyone been by terminal E to see any progress they've made? The last few times I have flown into/out of Logan was at night so I couldn't really see anything.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:54 pm

B752OS wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
B752OS wrote:

New York is, well, New York. So it's not a shock their demand is strong year round. One thing Miami has is a large amount of tourist demand from Europe - this is how airlines are able to fill the majority of seats between Miami and Europe. More people in Poland want to travel to Miami in January than they do to say Chicago, or Seattle. So it's not surprising Miami's European traffic fares better than Boston, DC, Seattle, Denver, etc. from December to March. I was surprised to see Aeroflot runs SVO-MIA at only 4 x weekly, AY runs HEL-MIA at only 3 weekly and LO runs WAW-MIA at only 3 weekly. I figure they would be at daily, or almost daily. This signals the leisure nature of who is filling these flights.


Aeroflot is 5x a week and LOT is 4x a week, but yes, it’s largely leisure and largely local so frequency isn’t as important.


Does it turn into 5 x weekly for a portion of the year? I was just looking at flight aware and see flights operate Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday on the Miami to Moscow end.


Has anyone been by terminal E to see any progress they've made? The last few times I have flown into/out of Logan was at night so I couldn't really see anything.


Aeroflot flies to Miami on Fridays as well and the current schedule is xMoWe.
a.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:00 pm

MAH4546 wrote:

They used to charge money to post here. They really need to start doing that again.


With respect, this thread has prided itself on respectful conversation between its participants. Your opinion is not the only opinion and for the sake of the rest of us, cut out the snarky comments. They are not appreciated or necessary.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
jworks158
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:02 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:09 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
VS4ever wrote:
georgiabill wrote:
Happy New Year fellow Boston Aviation participants. A few quick questions and then my wish for future destinations.
With the issues in HKG will CX be dropping any flights from BOS? Has AT'S load factor been improving on their CMN-BOS-CMN route?

Wish list for future BOS routes
BOS-ATH-BOS summer seasonal DY or DL most likely to give it a shot 3x or 4x per week
BRU-BOS-BRU summer seasonal might go yr round eventually SN only if they get A321LR' or A321XLR and 3x or 4x per week
LIM-BOS-LIM this is the long shot but LP 3X weekly might work especially if routed SCL-LIM-BOS-LIM-SCL
Asia not sure another main land Chinese route perhaps a Chinese carrier attempting PKX-BOS-PKX, TPE BR 3x or 4x weekly especially if CX reduces flights

Domestic
WN after Max returns to service perhaps restoring AUS to daily yr round, 2x daily MKE, daily MCI when new terminal opens
B6 BOS-STL-BOS 2x

Hope you all have a great 2020.


Answers from my standpoint:

CX - nothing mentioned yet, not even a drop in frequency has been noted anywhere, so for now, it's as you were.
AT - if anything it's been going backwards, November showed an average of 98 pax a flight...
ATH - I think there is a consensus here that ATH would be a good route, I just wonder if one of the things that OS did was try to pre-empt that with connection possibilities with the VIE flight.
BRU - again, another that has been discussed, I think the 321 would work well on this route.
LIM - hmmm tough one, that I would like to see, just to stretch the South American network a bit. Could LIM be done on a B6 321 XLR? I haven't done the mileage check to see if that would be feasible or not.

Asia - with KE's apparent success, I do wonder if there is more scope to Asia. HU's PVG and PEK routes are not setting the world on fire, JL are filling up their relatively low seat count 789's quite well (but the last round of frequency changes for NRT and HND mean that JL and NH are not considering BOS additionally, JL's only option is to move up to a 777, but again no signs of that happening either), CX, well enough have been documented about that.

BOS has been mentioned in dispatches in the SQ rumor thread, but I doubt they would turn up. BR would be nice and of the Chinese carriers, maybe CI or MU might be the ones, but with HU bagging both PVG and PEK, would the new Bejing airport also support a flight and would that be allowed under the rules.


AT in November definitely struggled if they were only averaging 98 pax a flight. But I can’t imagine Nov being a busy travel month to Morocco. Do you happen to have data as to how BOS stacked up against AT’s other newer US markets - MIA & IAD?


That can't be good.

One thing of note though, yesterday they sent the 789 for the first time in a while. Could this be winter vacationers causing increased demand?
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
airbazar
Posts: 10178
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:27 pm

jakeroberts212 wrote:
AT in November definitely struggled if they were only averaging 98 pax a flight. But I can’t imagine Nov being a busy travel month to Morocco. Do you happen to have data as to how BOS stacked up against AT’s other newer US markets - MIA & IAD?

The problem is AT is not catering to Morocco-Boston passengers. That market is minuscule. They came to BOS for the Boston-Europe market and it looks like they're having a hard time attracting that type of passenger on a year round basis.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:34 pm

Not sure if AT should focus on the BOS-Europe market. CMN is too far south for that IMHO.
Instead, how about BOS-Africa. Especially BOS-CPT. I'm sure there is tons of interest to visit Cape Town. It's a great place to visit.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 21

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos