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RL757PVD
Posts: 3179
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:48 pm

North America just got CPT back after a 5 year hiatus. The idea of BOS-CPT is lunacy.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:57 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
North America just got CPT back after a 5 year hiatus. The idea of BOS-CPT is lunacy.


I don’t think that’s what he meant, he meant BOS-CMN-CPT as a connector rather than a non-stop
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2412
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:59 pm

VS4ever wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
North America just got CPT back after a 5 year hiatus. The idea of BOS-CPT is lunacy.


I don’t think that’s what he meant, he meant BOS-CMN-CPT as a connector rather than a non-stop


Yes. I mean BOS-CMN-CPT. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10117
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:51 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Not sure if AT should focus on the BOS-Europe market. CMN is too far south for that IMHO.
Instead, how about BOS-Africa. Especially BOS-CPT. I'm sure there is tons of interest to visit Cape Town. It's a great place to visit.


Serving the Boston-Europe market was their stated intent so I'm just re-transmitting the message.The Boston-Africa market is too small.
And I don't think it's too far south either. Not for the cheap prices they demand. Is ATL too far south?
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-cmn-ma ... =wls&DU=nm

Interestingly the one airline that is best positioned to link Boston to South Africa is TACV if they ever get their act together. TP is also not in a bad position but they would start JNB before CPT.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:21 pm

airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Not sure if AT should focus on the BOS-Europe market. CMN is too far south for that IMHO.
Instead, how about BOS-Africa. Especially BOS-CPT. I'm sure there is tons of interest to visit Cape Town. It's a great place to visit.


Serving the Boston-Europe market was their stated intent so I'm just re-transmitting the message.The Boston-Africa market is too small.
And I don't think it's too far south either. Not for the cheap prices they demand. Is ATL too far south?
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-cmn-ma ... =wls&DU=nm

Interestingly the one airline that is best positioned to link Boston to South Africa is TACV if they ever get their act together. TP is also not in a bad position but they would start JNB before CPT.


Remind me, are FI still involved with TACV or has that relationship ended. I agree CV is a great connection point in terms of geography, but aren't the facilities in RAI and SID a bit lacking if they wanted to do this with any great focus? (I'm trying to remember a conversation about that, but not 100% sure).
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10117
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:16 pm

VS4ever wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Not sure if AT should focus on the BOS-Europe market. CMN is too far south for that IMHO.
Instead, how about BOS-Africa. Especially BOS-CPT. I'm sure there is tons of interest to visit Cape Town. It's a great place to visit.


Serving the Boston-Europe market was their stated intent so I'm just re-transmitting the message.The Boston-Africa market is too small.
And I don't think it's too far south either. Not for the cheap prices they demand. Is ATL too far south?
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-cmn-ma ... =wls&DU=nm

Interestingly the one airline that is best positioned to link Boston to South Africa is TACV if they ever get their act together. TP is also not in a bad position but they would start JNB before CPT.


Remind me, are FI still involved with TACV or has that relationship ended. I agree CV is a great connection point in terms of geography, but aren't the facilities in RAI and SID a bit lacking if they wanted to do this with any great focus? (I'm trying to remember a conversation about that, but not 100% sure).


Yes, Icelandair bought 51% of TACV:
https://onemileatatime.com/icelandair-c ... -airlines/
The plan was to move some of the 757's to VR as those were substituted by 737MAX's but the MAX grounding put a hold on those plans. The idea was to use SID as a TATL hub.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:26 pm

I was there in MIA last week and the city is full with folks from Europe and Canada including cold US regions who want a respite from the cold weather. People revel to be there to escape the snow.

I am providing comparatives of BOS/MIA for the calendar year 2019. The nos. certainly does not say international specifies Europe or S. America but the peak season for MIA is from Dec to April. After April, BOS starts to takeover but MIA has such a head start that BOS has a tough time to go over MIA.

MIA BOS MIA-BOS
Total International % Total International % Total International
Jan-19 4,195,763 2,085,935 50% 2,710,036 521,356 19% 1,485,727 1,564,579
Feb-19 3,732,381 1,780,340 48% 2,716,724 460,049 17% 1,015,657 1,320,291
Mar-19 4,210,141 2,004,034 48% 3,457,362 631,858 18% 752,779 1,372,176
Apr-19 3,779,459 1,841,918 49% 3,647,276 707,159 19% 132,183 1,134,759
May-19 3,789,658 1,816,300 48% 3,879,343 775,024 20% -89,685 1,041,276
Jun-19 3,789,880 1,879,686 50% 3,946,406 847,877 21% -156,526 1,031,809
Jul-19 4,023,556 2,058,413 51% 4,072,082 891,642 22% -48,526 1,166,771
Aug-19 3,828,043 1,931,244 50% 4,120,937 898,759 22% -292,894 1,032,485
Sep-19 3,192,720 1,547,429 48% 3,547,546 724,791 20% -354,826 822,638
Oct-19 3,423,480 1,634,960 48% 3,771,212 686,063 18% -347,732 948,897
Nov-19 3,264,105 552,066 17%
Dec-19

37,965,081 18,580,259 39,133,029 7,696,644 2,096,157 11,435,681
 
LH423
Posts: 5924
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:34 pm

B752OS wrote:
How is it Boston cannot sustain service to Mexico City on AM, but YUL is? It looks like on some days AM runs MEX-YUL twice a day.


Canada-Mexico traffic has also grown after Canada dropped its visa requirement for Mexicans. As such, tourism has been growing as more Mexicans take trips to Vancouver, Toronto, Montréal and Québec City rather than deal with the hassle of getting a US visa.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
jworks158
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:02 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:14 pm

airbazar wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
airbazar wrote:

Serving the Boston-Europe market was their stated intent so I'm just re-transmitting the message.The Boston-Africa market is too small.
And I don't think it's too far south either. Not for the cheap prices they demand. Is ATL too far south?
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-cmn-ma ... =wls&DU=nm

Interestingly the one airline that is best positioned to link Boston to South Africa is TACV if they ever get their act together. TP is also not in a bad position but they would start JNB before CPT.


Remind me, are FI still involved with TACV or has that relationship ended. I agree CV is a great connection point in terms of geography, but aren't the facilities in RAI and SID a bit lacking if they wanted to do this with any great focus? (I'm trying to remember a conversation about that, but not 100% sure).


Yes, Icelandair bought 51% of TACV:
https://onemileatatime.com/icelandair-c ... -airlines/
The plan was to move some of the 757's to VR as those were substituted by 737MAX's but the MAX grounding put a hold on those plans. The idea was to use SID as a TATL hub.


However their fleet is now growing!
They recently received their third plane D4-CCE, which came from La Compagnie, and their 4th is painted D4-CCE, which was an ex AA frame and was stored.
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
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adamh8297
Posts: 3210
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:52 pm

I think the TACV SID flight is same plane to LOS. The DSS flight from SID is 737. TACV does cut down the total travel time to LOS but DSS is easier to get to by DL and JFK. Still not the world's largest markets.

LH423 wrote:
B752OS wrote:
How is it Boston cannot sustain service to Mexico City on AM, but YUL is? It looks like on some days AM runs MEX-YUL twice a day.


Canada-Mexico traffic has also grown after Canada dropped its visa requirement for Mexicans. As such, tourism has been growing as more Mexicans take trips to Vancouver, Toronto, Montréal and Québec City rather than deal with the hassle of getting a US visa.

LH423


I was also wondering if Scotiabank's huge Mexican presence lead to some of this Canadian traffic. There is a business component to BOS-MEX but its not enough since there's not a lot of VFR and Visa issues make it hard to stir up Mexican originating tourism to Boston.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:13 pm

Well, I'm on my way home after cutting my trip to Puerto Vallarta short. I had enough of the overcrowding, bad weather and druggy scene.
 
Dieuwer
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Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:30 pm

Speaking about new BOS flights this year, what do you all think the chances are for a direct BOS-India flight?
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:35 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Speaking about new BOS flights this year, what do you all think the chances are for a direct BOS-India flight?

ZERO IMO.

1. GOI is keen to divest AI to another party than keep investing in a bottomless pit. EY and IndiGo have shown interest - I do not know how far they can go considering the rules of engagement, dealing with unions, opposition politics, and constant negative attention from media calling it anti-India.
2. AI has so far flown to only *A hubs - BOS is not there. There are other bigger Indian diaspora left who do not have a direct flight yet.
3. I do not know if there are any other Indian carriers left who have the ability and even if somebody would they would test run the market with JFK / NYC market
4. DL just started JFK-BOM. Early days to say.

I do not see any other carrier available at this time. AA does not even fly anymore direct to India!
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:50 pm

Decided to look up my own little question from my last post, and go figure...it seems that with the exception of Turkish, every airline in terminal E that owns 787s, has flown them to Boston.

Useless bit of info, but still. Interesting to some I hope
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:53 pm

Why is that surprising? I would think the mere development of the 787 allowed many airlines who never considered BOS before to enter the market with an efficient plane for long, thin routes.
 
johhn14
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:30 am

Dieuwer wrote:
Speaking about new BOS flights this year, what do you all think the chances are for a direct BOS-India flight?
I'll go with zero

It's very unlikely (impossible?) to be a US carrier and even if an Indian one flies, will that attract US based travelers? As a regular traveler to India I'd gladly take a connection in the ME over a non-stop on the likes of Air India. There is a ton of viable connection opportunities on far better carriers in London, Frankfurt, Munich, Doha, Dubai, and Paris + Istanbul to some extent. If you're feeling adventurous even Tokyo and Hong Kong have some options, albeit longer travel times.

Unless the non-stop happens to be to the city you're going, you'll have to connect anyway. Easier to do an intl-intl transit connection than the intl to domestic hop in India. Their terminals are not setup well for that.

Sooo many ways to get to the subcontinent re with painless connections.
 
B752OS
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:35 am

As far as I am concerned, PVD should be discussed in this thread due to the fact that it serves the Boston metro area (even if it's located in its own metro area). Both airports service the larger region.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:45 am

well i had a 14 point post about the various merits of MIA and BOS (and a little FLL thrown in too), but obviously something got reported and a bunch of posts deleted as mine went too, just after I had posted it. such is life.

Anyway, enough of that, back to our regular programming, in ironic news, my next flight will be BOS-MIA on DL in February, been a long time since I have been through there.

I think PVD works both ways, give its own space in the Other New England thread so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle here, but by the same token it is relevant to the discussion, kind of like ORH is as well. Now if only PVD would get their act together and post numbers after August, they are 3 months behind everyone else at this juncture. 4 behind BOS.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
PVDspotting
Posts: 51
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:51 am

FGITD wrote:
Decided to look up my own little question from my last post, and go figure...it seems that with the exception of Turkish, every airline in terminal E that owns 787s, has flown them to Boston.

Useless bit of info, but still. Interesting to some I hope

Didn't TK announce they will be switching to the 787 to BOS?
 
FGITD
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:13 am

PVDspotting wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Decided to look up my own little question from my last post, and go figure...it seems that with the exception of Turkish, every airline in terminal E that owns 787s, has flown them to Boston.

Useless bit of info, but still. Interesting to some I hope

Didn't TK announce they will be switching to the 787 to BOS?


Oh good point, starting in March I believe. Really is a great plane for BOS.

Also I think PVD has its place here and the rest of New England thread. It somewhat falls into a size gap.
 
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qf789
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:13 am

WARNING

Keep your posts on topic. Topic is about Boston not Miami, yet of the 52 posts I have just had to remove Boston barely got a mention.

To the 2 users responsible for derailing the thread

either engage with each other and other users in a civil and respectful manner otherwise don't engage at all
do not call each other trolls or liars
Don't provoke one another
Don't incite trouble
Posts must contribute to the topic and be constructive

Have an adult conversation, everyone has a right to express their own opinions and they must be respected, if you don't agree with their opinion, fine debate it without the name calling and disrespectful behavior.

To the two responsible for this if this behavior continues you will be banned and don't put us moderators in a position where we have to lock the thread for good
Forum Moderator
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2563
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:14 am

PVDspotting wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Decided to look up my own little question from my last post, and go figure...it seems that with the exception of Turkish, every airline in terminal E that owns 787s, has flown them to Boston.

Useless bit of info, but still. Interesting to some I hope

Didn't TK announce they will be switching to the 787 to BOS?


Why yes, yes they did. from 3/29/20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... h%20boston

slight capacity increase

333 - 287 (28 and 261)
789 - 300 (30 and 270)
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
PVDspotting
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:10 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:32 am

FGITD wrote:
PVDspotting wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Decided to look up my own little question from my last post, and go figure...it seems that with the exception of Turkish, every airline in terminal E that owns 787s, has flown them to Boston.

Useless bit of info, but still. Interesting to some I hope

Didn't TK announce they will be switching to the 787 to BOS?


Oh good point, starting in March I believe. Really is a great plane for BOS.

Also I think PVD has its place here and the rest of New England thread. It somewhat falls into a size gap.

Thanks! Yeah I forgot about that till you made mention of TK. Wish I'd be able to the KLM 787, can't wait for the longer nights. Hopefully KL will sprinkle more 787s in!
 
PVDspotting
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:10 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:37 am

VS4ever wrote:
PVDspotting wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Decided to look up my own little question from my last post, and go figure...it seems that with the exception of Turkish, every airline in terminal E that owns 787s, has flown them to Boston.

Useless bit of info, but still. Interesting to some I hope

Didn't TK announce they will be switching to the 787 to BOS?


Why yes, yes they did. from 3/29/20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... h%20boston

slight capacity increase

333 - 287 (28 and 261)
789 - 300 (30 and 270)

The 787 should work fine for the route.
 
jworks158
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:02 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:02 pm

PVDspotting wrote:
FGITD wrote:
PVDspotting wrote:
Didn't TK announce they will be switching to the 787 to BOS?


Oh good point, starting in March I believe. Really is a great plane for BOS.

Also I think PVD has its place here and the rest of New England thread. It somewhat falls into a size gap.

Thanks! Yeah I forgot about that till you made mention of TK. Wish I'd be able to the KLM 787, can't wait for the longer nights. Hopefully KL will sprinkle more 787s in!


It's likely they will with the new fleet plan
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:59 pm

Speaking of the KLM 787-9, they used one to BOS today.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2412
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:45 am

VS4ever wrote:
PVDspotting wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Decided to look up my own little question from my last post, and go figure...it seems that with the exception of Turkish, every airline in terminal E that owns 787s, has flown them to Boston.

Useless bit of info, but still. Interesting to some I hope

Didn't TK announce they will be switching to the 787 to BOS?


Why yes, yes they did. from 3/29/20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... h%20boston

slight capacity increase

333 - 287 (28 and 261)
789 - 300 (30 and 270)


Much nicer J class though with the 789.
You think TK will keep it year round?
 
Gillbilly
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:46 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:51 pm

Can anyone comment on the likelihood that the direct summer Delta 767 service between BOS and SLC will resume? I haven't sen it in the schedule.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:34 am

With DL adding a 4th BOS-SEA for Summer, there are now up to 11 daily flights on the route.

There were 2 each by B6 and AS in July 2010
There were 2 dailies by AA in July 2000. B6 and AS were not at BOS yet.

Capacity double between 2000-2010 and went beyond doubling in 2010-2020.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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tlecam
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:16 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
With DL adding a 4th BOS-SEA for Summer, there are now up to 11 daily flights on the route.

There were 2 each by B6 and AS in July 2010
There were 2 dailies by AA in July 2000. B6 and AS were not at BOS yet.

Capacity double between 2000-2010 and went beyond doubling in 2010-2020.


Some growth is warranted given the business ties on the route (tech, Amazon, Liberty Mutual acquired Safeco etc...) but yields are going to continue to be garbage.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
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pitbosflyer
Posts: 375
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:11 pm

tlecam wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
With DL adding a 4th BOS-SEA for Summer, there are now up to 11 daily flights on the route.

There were 2 each by B6 and AS in July 2010
There were 2 dailies by AA in July 2000. B6 and AS were not at BOS yet.

Capacity double between 2000-2010 and went beyond doubling in 2010-2020.


Some growth is warranted given the business ties on the route (tech, Amazon, Liberty Mutual acquired Safeco etc...) but yields are going to continue to be garbage.


Yeah with the battle for business traffic on the route the carriers really have no choice but to offer the increased frequencies.
A:320/21, 333, 343, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 763, 772 || MD80, MD90 || E:145, 170, 175, 190, 195 || CR200, 700, 900
 
kq747
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:05 pm

FGITD wrote:
Decided to look up my own little question from my last post, and go figure...it seems that with the exception of Turkish, every airline in terminal E that owns 787s, has flown them to Boston.

Useless bit of info, but still. Interesting to some I hope


Have KL or QR had scheduled service to BOS?
 
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ChrisNH38
Posts: 250
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:14 pm

kq747 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Decided to look up my own little question from my last post, and go figure...it seems that with the exception of Turkish, every airline in terminal E that owns 787s, has flown them to Boston.

Useless bit of info, but still. Interesting to some I hope


Have KL or QR had scheduled service to BOS?


KL used their -9 to Boston a few days ago; QR scheduled the -8 for a period of time but went back to the A359 before going to the 77W they use now.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
FGITD
Posts: 873
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:13 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
kq747 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Decided to look up my own little question from my last post, and go figure...it seems that with the exception of Turkish, every airline in terminal E that owns 787s, has flown them to Boston.

Useless bit of info, but still. Interesting to some I hope


Have KL or QR had scheduled service to BOS?


KL used their -9 to Boston a few days ago; QR scheduled the -8 for a period of time but went back to the A359 before going to the 77W they use now.


Yea exactly as ChrisNH said. KL was a one off, QR was a short scheduled change for a month or two.
KL is an interesting one, despite being scheduled as an A333 they've sent 332, 772, 77w, 789. Pretty much everything they've got short of the -10. Impressive array, though I'd hate to be responsible for the crew scheduling.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:35 pm

FGITD wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
kq747 wrote:

Have KL or QR had scheduled service to BOS?


KL used their -9 to Boston a few days ago; QR scheduled the -8 for a period of time but went back to the A359 before going to the 77W they use now.


Yea exactly as ChrisNH said. KL was a one off, QR was a short scheduled change for a month or two.
KL is an interesting one, despite being scheduled as an A333 they've sent 332, 772, 77w, 789. Pretty much everything they've got short of the -10. Impressive array, though I'd hate to be responsible for the crew scheduling.


Even more curious to me are the seat count variations on those
772 - 318
77W - 408
332 - 268
333 - 292
789 - 294

How on earth do you manage that variation in capacity on the same route day by day? between the 332 and 77W that's a 52% seat count differential...at least the closest is the 333 to 789.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
FGITD
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:50 pm

VS4ever wrote:
FGITD wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:

KL used their -9 to Boston a few days ago; QR scheduled the -8 for a period of time but went back to the A359 before going to the 77W they use now.


Yea exactly as ChrisNH said. KL was a one off, QR was a short scheduled change for a month or two.
KL is an interesting one, despite being scheduled as an A333 they've sent 332, 772, 77w, 789. Pretty much everything they've got short of the -10. Impressive array, though I'd hate to be responsible for the crew scheduling.


Even more curious to me are the seat count variations on those
772 - 318
77W - 408
332 - 268
333 - 292
789 - 294

How on earth do you manage that variation in capacity on the same route day by day? between the 332 and 77W that's a 52% seat count differential...at least the closest is the 333 to 789.



It's certainly interesting, I'm guessing most of the times when the 333 has been swapped out it's either swap or cancel. And put in that position, it seems like KL prefers to swap off at all possible.

What I find interesting is that KL would even have an airplane to swap to. KLM's fleet is by no means giant. So it says a lot when airline x or y can't find a suitable replacement for a 737 or 320 when they have dozens of them, yet here is KLM changing out widebodies for the sake of operational needs.
 
EADSYABSOB73857
Posts: 80
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:44 pm

Will BOS overtake IAH within the next couple of years? After 2019 BOS beat out IAH in growth and should have eaten into IAH’s lead by 500k.. putting IAH about 2.4mm ahead of Logan. With the DL and B6 build up, plus all the international adds, and the prospect of UA, AA, and WN adding back flights after the MAX returns to service, could BOS quickly get ahead of IAH?

The understanding is that once the MAX gets the green light, carriers are going to immediately receive an influx of MAXs (all of the completed planes) and they’ll need frequencies/new markets to add the day they get those places back. I’d say the most affected carrier is WN- hence why and makes sense BOS has seen so many reductions from WN..
 
RL757PVD
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:48 pm

EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
Will BOS overtake IAH within the next couple of years? After 2019 BOS beat out IAH in growth and should have eaten into IAH’s lead by 500k.. putting IAH about 2.4mm ahead of Logan. With the DL and B6 build up, plus all the international adds, and the prospect of UA, AA, and WN adding back flights after the MAX returns to service, could BOS quickly get ahead of IAH?

The understanding is that once the MAX gets the green light, carriers are going to immediately receive an influx of MAXs (all of the completed planes) and they’ll need frequencies/new markets to add the day they get those places back. I’d say the most affected carrier is WN- hence why and makes sense BOS has seen so many reductions from WN..


If BOS was of strategic importance to WN, they would have made it work. They struggle in the northeast as a whole because it doesn’t work with their point to point model they use throughout much of their network. The only way you see significant growth by WN at BOS is in the wake of reductions of DL or B6.

As for overtaking IAH it depends a lot on what UA does with the hub, if they grow DEN like what’s being discussed, it could detract from IAH.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:06 am

RL757PVD wrote:
EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
Will BOS overtake IAH within the next couple of years? After 2019 BOS beat out IAH in growth and should have eaten into IAH’s lead by 500k.. putting IAH about 2.4mm ahead of Logan. With the DL and B6 build up, plus all the international adds, and the prospect of UA, AA, and WN adding back flights after the MAX returns to service, could BOS quickly get ahead of IAH?

The understanding is that once the MAX gets the green light, carriers are going to immediately receive an influx of MAXs (all of the completed planes) and they’ll need frequencies/new markets to add the day they get those places back. I’d say the most affected carrier is WN- hence why and makes sense BOS has seen so many reductions from WN..


If BOS was of strategic importance to WN, they would have made it work. They struggle in the northeast as a whole because it doesn’t work with their point to point model they use throughout much of their network. The only way you see significant growth by WN at BOS is in the wake of reductions of DL or B6.

As for overtaking IAH it depends a lot on what UA does with the hub, if they grow DEN like what’s being discussed, it could detract from IAH.


It’s a bit more than that, IAH has a larger dependency than most on oil traffic, so with the situation right now and the almost certain expectation that oil prices will rise until it cools off again, IAH should see an increase in traffic.

DEN looks to be UA’s battleground, but don’t rule out an IAH surge.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
OneX123
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:08 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:44 am

Hi all,

Just curious — is there any background behind AA’s BOS-Harrisburgh, PA flight? Not saying there isn’t interest or anything, just don’t understand why AA would run that P2P route so wondering if there’s any history behind it
 
User avatar
SumChristianus
Posts: 627
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:00 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:03 am

OneX123 wrote:
Hi all,

Just curious — is there any background behind AA’s BOS-Harrisburgh, PA flight? Not saying there isn’t interest or anything, just don’t understand why AA would run that P2P route so wondering if there’s any history behind it

Don't know any particulars but it dates from a much more point-to-point strategy US Airways had in the US Northeast. Several others have stuck around as well: ROC and SYR.

DL hasn't seen these as important enough to serve (especially given their commitment to have every BOS flight be on 2-class regional jets) and since these markets are also probably too small for B6, AA finds them good enough to keep for the moment. They're also in the top 3 still for BOS traffic and AA also flies mainline to CLT (and soon to DFW), so its not that small of a market.
UA DL LH NW AA WN - Hope I don't have to leave WY for a while
"Born in Wonder, Brought to Wisdom"
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:12 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
Will BOS overtake IAH within the next couple of years? After 2019 BOS beat out IAH in growth and should have eaten into IAH’s lead by 500k.. putting IAH about 2.4mm ahead of Logan. With the DL and B6 build up, plus all the international adds, and the prospect of UA, AA, and WN adding back flights after the MAX returns to service, could BOS quickly get ahead of IAH?

The understanding is that once the MAX gets the green light, carriers are going to immediately receive an influx of MAXs (all of the completed planes) and they’ll need frequencies/new markets to add the day they get those places back. I’d say the most affected carrier is WN- hence why and makes sense BOS has seen so many reductions from WN..


If BOS was of strategic importance to WN, they would have made it work. They struggle in the northeast as a whole because it doesn’t work with their point to point model they use throughout much of their network. The only way you see significant growth by WN at BOS is in the wake of reductions of DL or B6.

As for overtaking IAH it depends a lot on what UA does with the hub, if they grow DEN like what’s being discussed, it could detract from IAH.

IAH Nov-2019 total pax: 41,236,107; international pax: 10,051,372
BOS Nov-2019 total pax: 39,133,029 ; international pax: 7,696,644

IAH-BOS: 2,103,078 BOS would need to grow at ~5+% assuming IAH has ZERO percent growth. If you use MTM AAGR figures, IAH growth is been 3.05% and BOS 3.4%. BOS would require to grow at at-least 8.5% to catch-up with IAH. That seems highly unlikely based on the stats thus far. UA has solid operations at IAH in addition to large operations to South and Central America.

BOS is now at a level where they are close to massive hubs which have pretty large operations - EWR, CLT, MIA, PHX, IAH in the sequence. It would be something big to break into that zone - either some airline retrenches operations in a large scale in any of these airports OR BOS becomes miraculously big - which seems unlikely in the current scenario.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2412
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:41 pm

BOS might actually shrink if EK and QR go bankrupt due to a potential multi-year Middle East war.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:45 pm

iyerhari wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
Will BOS overtake IAH within the next couple of years? After 2019 BOS beat out IAH in growth and should have eaten into IAH’s lead by 500k.. putting IAH about 2.4mm ahead of Logan. With the DL and B6 build up, plus all the international adds, and the prospect of UA, AA, and WN adding back flights after the MAX returns to service, could BOS quickly get ahead of IAH?

The understanding is that once the MAX gets the green light, carriers are going to immediately receive an influx of MAXs (all of the completed planes) and they’ll need frequencies/new markets to add the day they get those places back. I’d say the most affected carrier is WN- hence why and makes sense BOS has seen so many reductions from WN..


If BOS was of strategic importance to WN, they would have made it work. They struggle in the northeast as a whole because it doesn’t work with their point to point model they use throughout much of their network. The only way you see significant growth by WN at BOS is in the wake of reductions of DL or B6.

As for overtaking IAH it depends a lot on what UA does with the hub, if they grow DEN like what’s being discussed, it could detract from IAH.

IAH Nov-2019 total pax: 41,236,107; international pax: 10,051,372
BOS Nov-2019 total pax: 39,133,029 ; international pax: 7,696,644

IAH-BOS: 2,103,078 BOS would need to grow at ~5+% assuming IAH has ZERO percent growth. If you use MTM AAGR figures, IAH growth is been 3.05% and BOS 3.4%. BOS would require to grow at at-least 8.5% to catch-up with IAH. That seems highly unlikely based on the stats thus far. UA has solid operations at IAH in addition to large operations to South and Central America.

BOS is now at a level where they are close to massive hubs which have pretty large operations - EWR, CLT, MIA, PHX, IAH in the sequence. It would be something big to break into that zone - either some airline retrenches operations in a large scale in any of these airports OR BOS becomes miraculously big - which seems unlikely in the current scenario.


Agreed, but let's not forget the following:

1. 2 additional C gates to be built and not ready yet
2. WN and AA could increase their flight count again, they have the space.
3. B6 is going to increase capacity through switch from 190 to 220 and a combo of switching the 320's from 150 to 162 and the 321's going to be mostly core at 200. Right now the 320 refurbs are about 45% done and should be done by the end of the year (theoretically)
4. B6 still need to grow a bit to get to 200 and there is a school of thought that they could move up to 225 or 250 should the stars align.
5. E is going to get the 4 new gates (think 8 if we talk NB operations) and then the other 3, so that will increase the international capacity significantly
6. Rumor has it that DL is considering pulling it's International out of A and keeping them in E for Arrivals and Departures, that would allow to them to grow further in the same footprint.
7. F9 could grow more in E if Massport give them a second gate, especially in the morning hours when usage is relatively low, they could get this now or in the future, if they are interested. That of course is the big question.
8. IAH conversely could accelerate if the Oil traffic increases as a result of the higher oil prices that are coming/here as a result of the sociopolitical situation right now in the Middle East

I am not sure if 1-7 could provide 8.5% growth, in fact back in Jan 19, Massport put out their pax count predictions through 2027 and they are pretty conservative.

Year, total pax count, % increase over prior year

2018 40.9
2019 42.8 104.6%
2020 44.7 104.4%
2021 45.2 101.1%
2022 46 101.8%
2023 46.8 101.7%
2024 47.6 101.7%
2025 48.4 101.7%
2026 49.2 101.7%
2027 50.1 101.8%

As you can see, they are expecting 10m more pax over 10 years, with the biggest kicks for 19 and 20.

Comparative past data

1998 26.5
2003 22.8
2008 26.1
2013 30.2

10m in 5 years vs 10m in 10 years... big difference, the dip from 1998 to 2003 and back again was the impact of 9/11 and the rebuild of traffic after that, amazing that it took 10 years to get back to the 1998 levels of pax count.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2563
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:50 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
BOS might actually shrink if EK and QR go bankrupt due to a potential multi-year Middle East war.


Highly doubtful. The whole middle east region Nov YTD is 650K pax (which includes TK and LY as well) which represents 1.6% of the entire pax count, now you could argue that on top of that are connecting pax, but by massport's own numbers that total is about 2.2m for the entire airport,

Will it have an impact, sure. Will it cause BOS to shrink, don't think so, because people still have to get where they are going even if they don't bounce through DOH or DXB, you would see their pax count reduce and the likes of BA, AF, LH compensate somewhat for that, as connections to India and the like would go through there.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10117
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:53 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
BOS might actually shrink if EK and QR go bankrupt due to a potential multi-year Middle East war.


Highly doubtful. The whole middle east region Nov YTD is 650K pax (which includes TK and LY as well) which represents 1.6% of the entire pax count, now you could argue that on top of that are connecting pax, but by massport's own numbers that total is about 2.2m for the entire airport,

Will it have an impact, sure. Will it cause BOS to shrink, don't think so, because people still have to get where they are going even if they don't bounce through DOH or DXB, you would see their pax count reduce and the likes of BA, AF, LH compensate somewhat for that, as connections to India and the like would go through there.

That, and the premise that QR and EK would go bankrupt due to a conflict in the middle east is very flawed to begin with. The middle east outside of the UAE proper represents a tiny amount of these airlines' business. By and large their business model is to connect passengers from different parts of the globe of which the ME is one but a very small one. And that's to say nothing about QR not really being a "for-profit" airline to begin with. "Western" airlines would suffer the most from an extended conflict as they did during the Gulf wars due to rising fuel prices, IMO.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2412
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:12 pm

airbazar wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
BOS might actually shrink if EK and QR go bankrupt due to a potential multi-year Middle East war.


Highly doubtful. The whole middle east region Nov YTD is 650K pax (which includes TK and LY as well) which represents 1.6% of the entire pax count, now you could argue that on top of that are connecting pax, but by massport's own numbers that total is about 2.2m for the entire airport,

Will it have an impact, sure. Will it cause BOS to shrink, don't think so, because people still have to get where they are going even if they don't bounce through DOH or DXB, you would see their pax count reduce and the likes of BA, AF, LH compensate somewhat for that, as connections to India and the like would go through there.

That, and the premise that QR and EK would go bankrupt due to a conflict in the middle east is very flawed to begin with. The middle east outside of the UAE proper represents a tiny amount of these airlines' business. By and large their business model is to connect passengers from different parts of the globe of which the ME is one but a very small one. And that's to say nothing about QR not really being a "for-profit" airline to begin with. "Western" airlines would suffer the most from an extended conflict as they did during the Gulf wars due to rising fuel prices, IMO.


That not what I implied.
Suppose in its anger, Iran drops bombs on the United Arab Emirates. It will be game over for EK.
 
S0Y
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:20 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Much nicer J class though with the 789.
You think TK will keep it year round?


TK 787 new J seat might look nice, but is getting lots of negative feedback. Rumour has it that TK are already reconsidering if it should be their new seat. Narrow and uncomfortable are the main grips, plus gripes about the privacy shield.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:29 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
That not what I implied.
Suppose in its anger, Iran drops bombs on the United Arab Emirates. It will be game over for EK.

The Middle East region has survived for so long and you can possibly jot down endless friends and enemies in that region over the course of several years that it makes you wonder and hope 'THUS SHALL ALSO PASS'.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2412
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:40 pm

iyerhari wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
That not what I implied.
Suppose in its anger, Iran drops bombs on the United Arab Emirates. It will be game over for EK.

The Middle East region has survived for so long and you can possibly jot down endless friends and enemies in that region over the course of several years that it makes you wonder and hope 'THUS SHALL ALSO PASS'.


I hope so :(
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