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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:18 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
See if this works...

Image


I was able to see it via quoting your post and getting the link. I think its just marketing the codeshare with UA via United.

Of course what MS doesn't tell you in that advertisement that connections are in JFK via B6 interline too.


Any idea why the image didn’t post?


Yes - you put an webpage in the img section.

I got the exact image link and posted it here: Image

Also by looking below it does say "in cooperation with our partners".
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:48 am

S0Y wrote:
Emirates’ A380 will operate to Boston between 01 June and 30 September 2019 and between 01 December 2019 and 31 January 2020 to accommodate the increased seasonal demand in travel to the US East Coast.

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... s-for-2019


Why are you posting a press release from January 12, 2019? That’s a year ago! :banghead:
 
airbazar
Posts: 9894
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:31 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:

I was able to see it via quoting your post and getting the link. I think its just marketing the codeshare with UA via United.

Of course what MS doesn't tell you in that advertisement that connections are in JFK via B6 interline too.


Any idea why the image didn’t post?


Yes - you put an webpage in the img section.

I got the exact image link and posted it here: Image

Also by looking below it does say "in cooperation with our partners".


I don't see any of it but that's because the network that I'm on blocks all social media sites. I wonder if that could be why clrd4t8koff can't see it, too.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2442
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:52 pm

So I have a question that I hope someone can answer for me. As I was not living in BOS way back when.

I am putting some new data together (more on that soon) and one of the pieces is about BOS-ZRH on the old SR back in 2001, the data I am seeing suggests that this was double daily at some point during that year, prior to 9/11 of course.

Is anyone able to confirm that was the case, or is the data I am seeing wrong? Don't mind either way, but wanted to see if anyone knew..
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:44 pm

VS4ever wrote:
So I have a question that I hope someone can answer for me. As I was not living in BOS way back when.

I am putting some new data together (more on that soon) and one of the pieces is about BOS-ZRH on the old SR back in 2001, the data I am seeing suggests that this was double daily at some point during that year, prior to 9/11 of course.

Is anyone able to confirm that was the case, or is the data I am seeing wrong? Don't mind either way, but wanted to see if anyone knew..


It's correct. Old Swissair was an AA partner back then.

I checked an old AA timetable on departed flights:
http://www.departedflights.com/AA070201p56.html

6:45 and 9:20 pm departures on A330 most likely A332 based on seat count: 220 ish.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:24 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
So I have a question that I hope someone can answer for me. As I was not living in BOS way back when.

I am putting some new data together (more on that soon) and one of the pieces is about BOS-ZRH on the old SR back in 2001, the data I am seeing suggests that this was double daily at some point during that year, prior to 9/11 of course.

Is anyone able to confirm that was the case, or is the data I am seeing wrong? Don't mind either way, but wanted to see if anyone knew..


It's correct. Old Swissair was an AA partner back then.

I checked an old AA timetable on departed flights:
http://www.departedflights.com/AA070201p56.html

6:45 and 9:20 pm departures on A330 most likely A332 based on seat count: 220 ish.


awesome, thanks for checking and the quick response :)
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
massachoicetts
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:51 am

Wow in 2001, AA had upto14 daily flights to ORD. wow.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:57 am

massachoicetts wrote:
Wow in 2001, AA had upto14 daily flights to ORD. wow.


I remember massive amount of ORD flights but I did not remember other Canadian destinations such as YOW, YQB and YHZ. I know YYZ stuck around for a bit after the hub drawdown.

Widebodies (A300) on LAX, MIA, MCO, SJU, SDQ. I flew BOS-SJU on one and it was the worst landing I've ever experienced. I was shocked they flew the A300 on BOS-LHR.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:34 am

adamh8297 wrote:
massachoicetts wrote:
Wow in 2001, AA had upto14 daily flights to ORD. wow.


I remember massive amount of ORD flights but I did not remember other Canadian destinations such as YOW, YQB and YHZ. I know YYZ stuck around for a bit after the hub drawdown.

Widebodies (A300) on LAX, MIA, MCO, SJU, SDQ. I flew BOS-SJU on one and it was the worst landing I've ever experienced. I was shocked they flew the A300 on BOS-LHR.


They also flew it BOS-ORY back in 1999...
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
massachoicetts
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:46 am

Parents worked in ticketing at TWA then AA untill 2014, saw the whole TWA at a peak, TWA downsizing, then switch to AA... then 9/11... then hub increase in Boston.. then hub downsize. Lots of interesting stories of the flights. It was kind of like .. Oh Yay Paris ! .. Oh Bye Paris.. Hey Paris is back! ... and its gone.. Oh its back again! ... Oh Its gone again.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:02 am

Just lost a lot more time to that departedflights website than I would ever care to admit. Very interesting to see airlines come, go, come back, move etc. And how the naming scheme of the terminals changes over time.

I've always found it remarkable how difficult it is to find photos of the interior of terminal E, pre-renovation though.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:56 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
So I have a question that I hope someone can answer for me. As I was not living in BOS way back when.

I am putting some new data together (more on that soon) and one of the pieces is about BOS-ZRH on the old SR back in 2001, the data I am seeing suggests that this was double daily at some point during that year, prior to 9/11 of course.

Is anyone able to confirm that was the case, or is the data I am seeing wrong? Don't mind either way, but wanted to see if anyone knew..


It's correct. Old Swissair was an AA partner back then.

I checked an old AA timetable on departed flights:
http://www.departedflights.com/AA070201p56.html

6:45 and 9:20 pm departures on A330 most likely A332 based on seat count: 220 ish.


Wow that must have been at the very end of their existence. I never even knew that SR had a codeshare with AA.
I only remember the partnership they had with Delta and Singapore Airlines which apparently ended in 2000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Excellence
I also don't remember ever seeing their A330's in BOS only the 743's and MD-11's. But sure enough, there are a lot of photos in the database of the Swissair A332's at BOS starting in the Spring of 2000.
IIRC before the A330's the route had a tag to IAD.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:24 pm

The 1999 departed flights OAG shows some crazy changed over time
BOS-ALB/SYR over 10x daily each
BOS-BGR/BTV 15x daily each
BOS-PWM was about 20x daily.

That alone right there is 140 operations that was contributing to the airfield congestion and delays that plagued the airport back then.

A few other interesting ones were on the low side

RSW-2x
PBI- 2x
LAS 3x
LAX 8x

The rise in direct west coast flights came at the expense of places like ORD and DFW.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:52 pm

Don't forget all those DL L-1011s and 767s that used to go to YUL, and AC had almost all A320s to YYZ.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:25 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
The 1999 departed flights OAG shows some crazy changed over time
BOS-ALB/SYR over 10x daily each
BOS-BGR/BTV 15x daily each
BOS-PWM was about 20x daily.

That alone right there is 140 operations that was contributing to the airfield congestion and delays that plagued the airport back then.



Back in the day when you could fly from Boston to Springfield. I think at some point someone even operated BOS-BDL as a tag on with a DC-10. It's funny though, in regards to airline routes...the world got smaller, but the regions got bigger.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:27 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
The 1999 departed flights OAG shows some crazy changed over time
BOS-ALB/SYR over 10x daily each
BOS-BGR/BTV 15x daily each
BOS-PWM was about 20x daily.

That alone right there is 140 operations that was contributing to the airfield congestion and delays that plagued the airport back then.

A few other interesting ones were on the low side

RSW-2x
PBI- 2x
LAS 3x
LAX 8x

The rise in direct west coast flights came at the expense of places like ORD and DFW.


There is something to be said for the airport congestion, and it's such a relative difference.I have extracted some numbers below to prove a point. We think BOS is congested now... but we are WAY off in terms of how it was way back when, the difference is that the regional jets have dropped like a stone between 1998 and now and have been replaced by bigger jets, which obviously sit at the terminal longer, so it's difficult to do 20x to PWM, but a 14m increase in pax count with 83,000 less movements, roughly 114 departures a day LESS.

So field congestion isn't really the issue, it's gate space (because of the switch to bigger jets) and obviously terminal space. Essentially 14m pax going through approx the same footprint.

Figures: year, total movements, domestic commuter, domestic jet, International, other, pax count,

98/99 source: http://massport.com/media/1942/dec-99_a ... ummary.pdf
2018 source: http://massport.com/media/3066/1218-avs ... ummary.pdf

1998 507,449 195,573 231,328 48,118 32,430 - 26,526,708 -
1999 494,816 169,890 241,703 44,694 38,529 - 27,052,078
2018 424,024 69,139 263,691 53,679 37,515 - 40,941,925

Those numbers above are grand totals for CY, from Massport's financials for FY the change is even more stark for Avg Pax Counts

http://massport.com/media/1347/fy2008_cafr.pdf - Page 100 for July 98 to June 99

Domestic (jet and charter) - 84.9
International (jet, charter and commuter) - 87.6
Regional - 12.1

http://massport.com/media/3425/mpa-fy19-cafr-final.pdf - Page 150 for July 18 to June 19

Same groupings as above

Domestic - 118.8 (up 34 per flight!)
International 146.7 (up 59 per flight)
Regional - 30.9 (up 18 per flight)

Quite amazing really
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
iyerhari
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:28 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
So I have a question that I hope someone can answer for me. As I was not living in BOS way back when.

I am putting some new data together (more on that soon) and one of the pieces is about BOS-ZRH on the old SR back in 2001, the data I am seeing suggests that this was double daily at some point during that year, prior to 9/11 of course.

Is anyone able to confirm that was the case, or is the data I am seeing wrong? Don't mind either way, but wanted to see if anyone knew..


It's correct. Old Swissair was an AA partner back then.

I checked an old AA timetable on departed flights:
http://www.departedflights.com/AA070201p56.html

6:45 and 9:20 pm departures on A330 most likely A332 based on seat count: 220 ish.

Wow - fascinating. Thank you for sharing. If I parse out all of the unique BOS related destinations which would also have code share, it's fascinating:
ALB, AUS, BTV, ORD, SFO, SJC, SJU, SMF, STL, TPA, BGR, BNA, BWI, CMH, DCA, DEN, DFW, EWR, FLL, HPN, ISP, JFK, LAX, MCI, MCO, ORF, PDX, PHL, PHX, PWM, RDU, RIC, SAT, SAN, SEA

YYZ, YHZ, YOW, YQB, YUL - Was AC code share with AA those days?

International: SNN, ZRH, BRU, BDA, DUB, CDG, KIN, LHR, SDQ

It is tough to say which one is codeshare as I also see NRT listed as a destination although I do not think AA flew direct to NRT from BOS.

Nevertheless, fascinating set of destinations - does anyone know if AA was the clear market leader at BOS those days OR BOS was always a fragmented market like it is today?
 
massachoicetts
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:52 pm

Boston was fragmented with Delta, American ... American was the clear leader in flights, especially after 1991 when they bought TWAs LHR route. That made AA very profitable, and add additional routes. If I recall correctly, with the downfall of BNA/RDU times, it made BOS flights increase.
 
kq747
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:31 pm

S0Y wrote:
Emirates’ A380 will operate to Boston between 01 June and 30 September 2019 and between 01 December 2019 and 31 January 2020 to accommodate the increased seasonal demand in travel to the US East Coast.

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... s-for-2019


This is a very old article but I feel like there's weird republishing thing happening online with it. A travel blogger on the Boarding Area also tweeted this yesterday for some reason...am I missing something?
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:30 pm

iyerhari wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
So I have a question that I hope someone can answer for me. As I was not living in BOS way back when.

I am putting some new data together (more on that soon) and one of the pieces is about BOS-ZRH on the old SR back in 2001, the data I am seeing suggests that this was double daily at some point during that year, prior to 9/11 of course.

Is anyone able to confirm that was the case, or is the data I am seeing wrong? Don't mind either way, but wanted to see if anyone knew..


It's correct. Old Swissair was an AA partner back then.

I checked an old AA timetable on departed flights:
http://www.departedflights.com/AA070201p56.html

6:45 and 9:20 pm departures on A330 most likely A332 based on seat count: 220 ish.

Wow - fascinating. Thank you for sharing. If I parse out all of the unique BOS related destinations which would also have code share, it's fascinating:
ALB, AUS, BTV, ORD, SFO, SJC, SJU, SMF, STL, TPA, BGR, BNA, BWI, CMH, DCA, DEN, DFW, EWR, FLL, HPN, ISP, JFK, LAX, MCI, MCO, ORF, PDX, PHL, PHX, PWM, RDU, RIC, SAT, SAN, SEA

YYZ, YHZ, YOW, YQB, YUL - Was AC code share with AA those days?

International: SNN, ZRH, BRU, BDA, DUB, CDG, KIN, LHR, SDQ

It is tough to say which one is codeshare as I also see NRT listed as a destination although I do not think AA flew direct to NRT from BOS.

Nevertheless, fascinating set of destinations - does anyone know if AA was the clear market leader at BOS those days OR BOS was always a fragmented market like it is today?


Some of those destinations had a stop. Look at the column "St". NRT SMF PDX KIN and DUB (Shannon Stopover) were some of these.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1023
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:41 pm

kq747 wrote:
S0Y wrote:
Emirates’ A380 will operate to Boston between 01 June and 30 September 2019 and between 01 December 2019 and 31 January 2020 to accommodate the increased seasonal demand in travel to the US East Coast.

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/e ... s-for-2019


This is a very old article but I feel like there's weird republishing thing happening online with it. A travel blogger on the Boarding Area also tweeted this yesterday for some reason...am I missing something?

https://economyclassandbeyond.boardinga ... y-changes/

Somebody in a website got pulled badly and actually redacted the article. Looks like he was not well received.
 
AviationAddict
Posts: 768
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:37 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:54 pm

VS4ever wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
The 1999 departed flights OAG shows some crazy changed over time
BOS-ALB/SYR over 10x daily each
BOS-BGR/BTV 15x daily each
BOS-PWM was about 20x daily.

That alone right there is 140 operations that was contributing to the airfield congestion and delays that plagued the airport back then.

A few other interesting ones were on the low side

RSW-2x
PBI- 2x
LAS 3x
LAX 8x

The rise in direct west coast flights came at the expense of places like ORD and DFW.


There is something to be said for the airport congestion, and it's such a relative difference.I have extracted some numbers below to prove a point. We think BOS is congested now... but we are WAY off in terms of how it was way back when, the difference is that the regional jets have dropped like a stone between 1998 and now and have been replaced by bigger jets, which obviously sit at the terminal longer, so it's difficult to do 20x to PWM, but a 14m increase in pax count with 83,000 less movements, roughly 114 departures a day LESS.

So field congestion isn't really the issue, it's gate space (because of the switch to bigger jets) and obviously terminal space. Essentially 14m pax going through approx the same footprint.

Figures: year, total movements, domestic commuter, domestic jet, International, other, pax count,

98/99 source: http://massport.com/media/1942/dec-99_a ... ummary.pdf
2018 source: http://massport.com/media/3066/1218-avs ... ummary.pdf

1998 507,449 195,573 231,328 48,118 32,430 - 26,526,708 -
1999 494,816 169,890 241,703 44,694 38,529 - 27,052,078
2018 424,024 69,139 263,691 53,679 37,515 - 40,941,925

Those numbers above are grand totals for CY, from Massport's financials for FY the change is even more stark for Avg Pax Counts

http://massport.com/media/1347/fy2008_cafr.pdf - Page 100 for July 98 to June 99

Domestic (jet and charter) - 84.9
International (jet, charter and commuter) - 87.6
Regional - 12.1

http://massport.com/media/3425/mpa-fy19-cafr-final.pdf - Page 150 for July 18 to June 19

Same groupings as above

Domestic - 118.8 (up 34 per flight!)
International 146.7 (up 59 per flight)
Regional - 30.9 (up 18 per flight)

Quite amazing really



It's funny, for a time BOS was dominated by CRJs/ERJs on the low end and 757s on the higher end. The old CO and UA 733s/735s and AA/DL MD-80s were around but not in the same numbers as the regional jets. Now the CRJs/ERJs and 757s are rare beasts at BOS and have been replaced by E170s/175s/190s, A320/A321 and B738/739. With DL and B6 taking on the A220 it seems like we're heading for another noticeable change in aircraft types for BOS, although overall seat count probably won't change as much this time.

We've discussed our collective pipedream of a new satellite terminal in the area of the FedEx facility in the past. Hypothetically speaking, let's say BOS could gain 6-10 new gates. What are your thoughts on how they'd be utilized? Additional frequencies and/or new routes from existing carriers? Or would Massport target more international carriers?
 
User avatar
ChrisNH38
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:53 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:51 pm

A fascinating back-and-forth between a blogger and British Airways. Blogger writes a piece saying that BA’s A350-1000 might be able to fly long distances, but it’s not set up to serve two full meal services that ULH routes would demand. According to the blogger, BA didn’t think it all through from the galley point of view. So the result is that the plane is being inserted into shorter LH routes (like Boston and Toronto) instead of the ULH ones the plane was ostensibly meant for.

BA fires back, saying “Not true!” But BA did schedule the A350-1000 for Tokyo this summer and then flipped it back a few weeks later to something else.

So for those wondering why BOS will get the A350-1000 later this year, this might be one reason why.
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
massachoicetts
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:23 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:12 am

AviationAddict wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
The 1999 departed flights OAG shows some crazy changed over time
BOS-ALB/SYR over 10x daily each
BOS-BGR/BTV 15x daily each
BOS-PWM was about 20x daily.

That alone right there is 140 operations that was contributing to the airfield congestion and delays that plagued the airport back then.

A few other interesting ones were on the low side

RSW-2x
PBI- 2x
LAS 3x
LAX 8x

The rise in direct west coast flights came at the expense of places like ORD and DFW.


There is something to be said for the airport congestion, and it's such a relative difference.I have extracted some numbers below to prove a point. We think BOS is congested now... but we are WAY off in terms of how it was way back when, the difference is that the regional jets have dropped like a stone between 1998 and now and have been replaced by bigger jets, which obviously sit at the terminal longer, so it's difficult to do 20x to PWM, but a 14m increase in pax count with 83,000 less movements, roughly 114 departures a day LESS.

So field congestion isn't really the issue, it's gate space (because of the switch to bigger jets) and obviously terminal space. Essentially 14m pax going through approx the same footprint.

Figures: year, total movements, domestic commuter, domestic jet, International, other, pax count,

98/99 source: http://massport.com/media/1942/dec-99_a ... ummary.pdf
2018 source: http://massport.com/media/3066/1218-avs ... ummary.pdf

1998 507,449 195,573 231,328 48,118 32,430 - 26,526,708 -
1999 494,816 169,890 241,703 44,694 38,529 - 27,052,078
2018 424,024 69,139 263,691 53,679 37,515 - 40,941,925

Those numbers above are grand totals for CY, from Massport's financials for FY the change is even more stark for Avg Pax Counts

http://massport.com/media/1347/fy2008_cafr.pdf - Page 100 for July 98 to June 99

Domestic (jet and charter) - 84.9
International (jet, charter and commuter) - 87.6
Regional - 12.1

http://massport.com/media/3425/mpa-fy19-cafr-final.pdf - Page 150 for July 18 to June 19

Same groupings as above

Domestic - 118.8 (up 34 per flight!)
International 146.7 (up 59 per flight)
Regional - 30.9 (up 18 per flight)

Quite amazing really



It's funny, for a time BOS was dominated by CRJs/ERJs on the low end and 757s on the higher end. The old CO and UA 733s/735s and AA/DL MD-80s were around but not in the same numbers as the regional jets. Now the CRJs/ERJs and 757s are rare beasts at BOS and have been replaced by E170s/175s/190s, A320/A321 and B738/739. With DL and B6 taking on the A220 it seems like we're heading for another noticeable change in aircraft types for BOS, although overall seat count probably won't change as much this time.

We've discussed our collective pipedream of a new satellite terminal in the area of the FedEx facility in the past. Hypothetically speaking, let's say BOS could gain 6-10 new gates. What are your thoughts on how they'd be utilized? Additional frequencies and/or new routes from existing carriers? Or would Massport target more international carriers?


Good question... I think if it were to happen, Delta would control most of those. I think if they had to add new routes they would increase service to business markets like B^ did maybe ORD, BNA, LAX and SFO. Then new route possibilities could be SAT, GSO, SDF and BUF/ROC/SYR. It also would be of great interest to see who would start the BTV flight and maybe that has potential on Delta Express? The domestic network needs a little improvement to BOS.
 
jworks158
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:02 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:12 am

Anyone know who operated US airways flights to and from ROC in early July 2001. Also looking for the type it was operated on and schedule
(A359,A343/A346,A332,A319/320/321,A220-100)(B788,B772,B762,B752,B744/B748,B732/B737/B738,B717)(E190,E145)(CRJ100/200, Dash 8-200)(MD-83)
JB,UA(C5,EV,CHQ,AX),AA(EGF,ZW,AX,PT),DL(OH,YX),FL,WN,LH,BA,AF,AZ,IB,VX,CO
https://my.flightradar24.com/theorangetechie
 
Kno
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:53 am

AviationAddict wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
The 1999 departed flights OAG shows some crazy changed over time
BOS-ALB/SYR over 10x daily each
BOS-BGR/BTV 15x daily each
BOS-PWM was about 20x daily.

That alone right there is 140 operations that was contributing to the airfield congestion and delays that plagued the airport back then.

A few other interesting ones were on the low side

RSW-2x
PBI- 2x
LAS 3x
LAX 8x

The rise in direct west coast flights came at the expense of places like ORD and DFW.


There is something to be said for the airport congestion, and it's such a relative difference.I have extracted some numbers below to prove a point. We think BOS is congested now... but we are WAY off in terms of how it was way back when, the difference is that the regional jets have dropped like a stone between 1998 and now and have been replaced by bigger jets, which obviously sit at the terminal longer, so it's difficult to do 20x to PWM, but a 14m increase in pax count with 83,000 less movements, roughly 114 departures a day LESS.

So field congestion isn't really the issue, it's gate space (because of the switch to bigger jets) and obviously terminal space. Essentially 14m pax going through approx the same footprint.

Figures: year, total movements, domestic commuter, domestic jet, International, other, pax count,

98/99 source: http://massport.com/media/1942/dec-99_a ... ummary.pdf
2018 source: http://massport.com/media/3066/1218-avs ... ummary.pdf

1998 507,449 195,573 231,328 48,118 32,430 - 26,526,708 -
1999 494,816 169,890 241,703 44,694 38,529 - 27,052,078
2018 424,024 69,139 263,691 53,679 37,515 - 40,941,925

Those numbers above are grand totals for CY, from Massport's financials for FY the change is even more stark for Avg Pax Counts

http://massport.com/media/1347/fy2008_cafr.pdf - Page 100 for July 98 to June 99

Domestic (jet and charter) - 84.9
International (jet, charter and commuter) - 87.6
Regional - 12.1

http://massport.com/media/3425/mpa-fy19-cafr-final.pdf - Page 150 for July 18 to June 19

Same groupings as above

Domestic - 118.8 (up 34 per flight!)
International 146.7 (up 59 per flight)
Regional - 30.9 (up 18 per flight)

Quite amazing really



It's funny, for a time BOS was dominated by CRJs/ERJs on the low end and 757s on the higher end. The old CO and UA 733s/735s and AA/DL MD-80s were around but not in the same numbers as the regional jets. Now the CRJs/ERJs and 757s are rare beasts at BOS and have been replaced by E170s/175s/190s, A320/A321 and B738/739. With DL and B6 taking on the A220 it seems like we're heading for another noticeable change in aircraft types for BOS, although overall seat count probably won't change as much this time.

We've discussed our collective pipedream of a new satellite terminal in the area of the FedEx facility in the past. Hypothetically speaking, let's say BOS could gain 6-10 new gates. What are your thoughts on how they'd be utilized? Additional frequencies and/or new routes from existing carriers? Or would Massport target more international carriers?


As a 28 year old from bos the days of the 757 and t tail rjs are the days I grew up on.

Now our international traffic has become more interesting but our domestic traffic is bland and boring.

I’d love to see that fedex area turned into an expansion of A and see delta crank it up internationally and domestically, with some asian flying included.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1616
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:23 am

Kno wrote:
AviationAddict wrote:
VS4ever wrote:

There is something to be said for the airport congestion, and it's such a relative difference.I have extracted some numbers below to prove a point. We think BOS is congested now... but we are WAY off in terms of how it was way back when, the difference is that the regional jets have dropped like a stone between 1998 and now and have been replaced by bigger jets, which obviously sit at the terminal longer, so it's difficult to do 20x to PWM, but a 14m increase in pax count with 83,000 less movements, roughly 114 departures a day LESS.

So field congestion isn't really the issue, it's gate space (because of the switch to bigger jets) and obviously terminal space. Essentially 14m pax going through approx the same footprint.

Figures: year, total movements, domestic commuter, domestic jet, International, other, pax count,

98/99 source: http://massport.com/media/1942/dec-99_a ... ummary.pdf
2018 source: http://massport.com/media/3066/1218-avs ... ummary.pdf

1998 507,449 195,573 231,328 48,118 32,430 - 26,526,708 -
1999 494,816 169,890 241,703 44,694 38,529 - 27,052,078
2018 424,024 69,139 263,691 53,679 37,515 - 40,941,925

Those numbers above are grand totals for CY, from Massport's financials for FY the change is even more stark for Avg Pax Counts

http://massport.com/media/1347/fy2008_cafr.pdf - Page 100 for July 98 to June 99

Domestic (jet and charter) - 84.9
International (jet, charter and commuter) - 87.6
Regional - 12.1

http://massport.com/media/3425/mpa-fy19-cafr-final.pdf - Page 150 for July 18 to June 19

Same groupings as above

Domestic - 118.8 (up 34 per flight!)
International 146.7 (up 59 per flight)
Regional - 30.9 (up 18 per flight)

Quite amazing really



It's funny, for a time BOS was dominated by CRJs/ERJs on the low end and 757s on the higher end. The old CO and UA 733s/735s and AA/DL MD-80s were around but not in the same numbers as the regional jets. Now the CRJs/ERJs and 757s are rare beasts at BOS and have been replaced by E170s/175s/190s, A320/A321 and B738/739. With DL and B6 taking on the A220 it seems like we're heading for another noticeable change in aircraft types for BOS, although overall seat count probably won't change as much this time.

We've discussed our collective pipedream of a new satellite terminal in the area of the FedEx facility in the past. Hypothetically speaking, let's say BOS could gain 6-10 new gates. What are your thoughts on how they'd be utilized? Additional frequencies and/or new routes from existing carriers? Or would Massport target more international carriers?


As a 28 year old from bos the days of the 757 and t tail rjs are the days I grew up on.

Now our international traffic has become more interesting but our domestic traffic is bland and boring.

I’d love to see that fedex area turned into an expansion of A and see delta crank it up internationally and domestically, with some asian flying included.


Uh, on any given day you will see multiple 757’s and T-tail rj’s at BOS.

Given the size of BOS I’d say DL has cranked it up internationally. You do realize they’re adding three *new* international destinations in Europe this year (MAN, LGW & FCO) on top of what they and SkyTeam partner Korean Air added to Asia and Europe last year??
 
Runway28L
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:35 am

Allegiant entering BOS for the first time. Twice weekly flights to GRR/AVL/VPS/TYS all bookable with service launching in early May.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:07 am

Runway28L wrote:
Allegiant entering BOS for the first time. Twice weekly flights to GRR/AVL/VPS/TYS all bookable with service launching in early May.


Well knock me down with a giant hammer. G4 were the last airline I expected to see flying out of BOS,

I do like these options, but VPS is a bit out of left field so to speak. I have to assume they are going to use E for their flights, it’s so new Massport haven’t even added them to their list of airlines yet.

Nice find Runway28L, nice find indeed
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
FGITD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:13 am

ChrisNH38 wrote:
A fascinating back-and-forth between a blogger and British Airways. Blogger writes a piece saying that BA’s A350-1000 might be able to fly long distances, but it’s not set up to serve two full meal services that ULH routes would demand. According to the blogger, BA didn’t think it all through from the galley point of view. So the result is that the plane is being inserted into shorter LH routes (like Boston and Toronto) instead of the ULH ones the plane was ostensibly meant for.

BA fires back, saying “Not true!” But BA did schedule the A350-1000 for Tokyo this summer and then flipped it back a few weeks later to something else.

So for those wondering why BOS will get the A350-1000 later this year, this might be one reason why.


Very curious how a galley isn’t “setup” for ultra long haul. I've been in the galleys of a great many aircraft, and aside from being sized up/down, most of them pretty much work the same way. Now granted there are storage limits, but unless BA completely missed the mark, I highly doubt it that's the cause. For example, a b772 galley storage is barely half full for a BOS-Western Europe flight.

As for knocking down south cargo and expanding A...ambitious, but also extraordinarily unlikely. Bear in mind that FedEx in the eyes of the airport is just another airline. Might not bring in passenger counts, but they do also pay a huge amount for their facility and operation. Saying Massport should kick them out is like saying massport should forbid Spirit from flying in so they can give that space to Alaska. The only way it works is if they give them such a deal to fly into say, Hanscom, that they willingly move. But also keep in mind...there's a lot more than just FedEx over there. I don't think southwest or delta or united would be too thrilled to lose their cargo facilities. Let alone every single international operator...
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:45 am

Runway28L wrote:
Allegiant entering BOS for the first time. Twice weekly flights to GRR/AVL/VPS/TYS all bookable with service launching in early May.

Wow came out of nowhere - details of all the new routes:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... 4458672002

Thank you
 
rob2507
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2001 3:47 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:21 pm

jworks158 wrote:
Anyone know who operated US airways flights to and from ROC in early July 2001. Also looking for the type it was operated on and schedule

Pretty sure it was Chautauqua, I recall flying them on a -145 in either late '01 or early '02.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:22 pm

AviationAddict wrote:
It's funny, for a time BOS was dominated by CRJs/ERJs on the low end and 757s on the higher end.

It's more interesting than that. The CRJ's/ERJ's only started showing up in the late 90's to early 2000's, during the Internet boom, when there was so much money floating around that passengers literally were complaining to the airlines about turbo-props which were at the time the predominant type for short haul flying out of Boston. BEX (DL), TWA Express, AAEagle and USAir Express all flew props until the mid 90's to early 2000's.






FGITD wrote:
Very curious how a galley isn’t “setup” for ultra long haul. I've been in the galleys of a great many aircraft, and aside from being sized up/down, most of them pretty much work the same way. Now granted there are storage limits, but unless BA completely missed the mark, I highly doubt it that's the cause.

Same here. However, with the trend being less catering even in long haul, wouldn't be surprised if BA decided to put the cart ahead of the horses on this one. Maybe they are future-proofing their equipment :)
 
georgiabill
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:27 pm

I wonder if G4 will use terminals B or C for their daily flight(one day 2) Depending on their flight times perhaps NK,F9 or AS seem a possible gate for G4.
I am hoping for BOS-ATH-BOS on DL or DY summer seasonal 2021 3x-4x from end of May end of September anyone else see this as a possible international addition to BOS route map?
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:35 pm

Back to G4 for a moment, here are the timings for the new service. Putting BOS 2nd as these are in and out services..

G42794 AVL0930 - 1029BOS 15
G42795 BOS1100 - 1320 AVL 1
G42795 BOS1114 - 1325 AVL 5

G41900 VPS0700 - 1047BOS 47
G41911 BOS1132 - 1336VPS 47

G42972 GRR0600 - 0755BOS 47
G42973 BOS1050 - 1300GRR 7
G42973 BOS0840 - 1045GRR 4

G42952 TYS0645 - 0850BOS 15
G42952 BOS1200 - 1420TYS 1
G4402 BOS0935 - 1152TYS 5

Data taken from Allegiantair.com and i have screenshots :)
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:46 pm

From the looks of it i'd say Terminal E morning gates ala F9.

I was hoping they'd try AVL from PVD, but the rest of the stuff are thing PVD would have never gotten (they did add PVD-MYR with this announcement too).

These are all seasonal so curious what or if they will offer in the winter, my guess is PGD and maybe PIE or SFB
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
iyerhari
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:39 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Back to G4 for a moment, here are the timings for the new service. Putting BOS 2nd as these are in and out services..

G42794 AVL0930 - 1029BOS 15
G42795 BOS1100 - 1320 AVL 1
G42795 BOS1114 - 1325 AVL 5

G41900 VPS0700 - 1047BOS 47
G41911 BOS1132 - 1336VPS 47

G42972 GRR0600 - 0755BOS 47
G42973 BOS1050 - 1300GRR 7
G42973 BOS0840 - 1045GRR 4

G42952 TYS0645 - 0850BOS 15
G42952 BOS1200 - 1420TYS 1
G4402 BOS0935 - 1152TYS 5

Data taken from Allegiantair.com and i have screenshots :)

Thank you. They say it's seasonal with a start date around May-07. Do we know how far long is this planned?

I am sure AA/DL will be seeing how these flight sales occur. This is a perfect testing ground for them prior to starting their own respective services to these new stations.
 
airbazar
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:40 pm

georgiabill wrote:
I am hoping for BOS-ATH-BOS on DL or DY summer seasonal 2021 3x-4x from end of May end of September anyone else see this as a possible international addition to BOS route map?

OS will be a big test for that market. Seasonally, OS serves just about every imaginable airport in Greece:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... stinations
Factor in connections via every major European hub, including DL's own in AMS and CDG, and it's hard to see a non-stop happening in a market that is so leisure/VFR heavy and a relatively long route.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:43 pm

iyerhari wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Back to G4 for a moment, here are the timings for the new service. Putting BOS 2nd as these are in and out services..

G42794 AVL0930 - 1029BOS 15
G42795 BOS1100 - 1320 AVL 1
G42795 BOS1114 - 1325 AVL 5

G41900 VPS0700 - 1047BOS 47
G41911 BOS1132 - 1336VPS 47

G42972 GRR0600 - 0755BOS 47
G42973 BOS1050 - 1300GRR 7
G42973 BOS0840 - 1045GRR 4

G42952 TYS0645 - 0850BOS 15
G42952 BOS1200 - 1420TYS 1
G4402 BOS0935 - 1152TYS 5

Data taken from Allegiantair.com and i have screenshots :)

Thank you. They say it's seasonal with a start date around May-07. Do we know how far long is this planned?

I am sure AA/DL will be seeing how these flight sales occur. This is a perfect testing ground for them prior to starting their own respective services to these new stations.


GRR ends in mid august the others end in November
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:56 pm

airbazar wrote:
georgiabill wrote:
I am hoping for BOS-ATH-BOS on DL or DY summer seasonal 2021 3x-4x from end of May end of September anyone else see this as a possible international addition to BOS route map?

OS will be a big test for that market. Seasonally, OS serves just about every imaginable airport in Greece:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... stinations
Factor in connections via every major European hub, including DL's own in AMS and CDG, and it's hard to see a non-stop happening in a market that is so leisure/VFR heavy and a relatively long route.

The only US airports who fly to ATH are seasonal flights on DL from JFK and UA from EWR. Both are massive international pax stations and even they have seasonal flights. Pretty much everyone else as you say maybe flying from LHR, CDG, AMS stations.
RL757PVD wrote:
[
GRR ends in mid august the others end in November

Thank you.
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:15 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
From the looks of it i'd say Terminal E morning gates ala F9.

I was hoping they'd try AVL from PVD, but the rest of the stuff are thing PVD would have never gotten (they did add PVD-MYR with this announcement too).

These are all seasonal so curious what or if they will offer in the winter, my guess is PGD and maybe PIE or SFB


I don’t think they are seasonal, I think they are year round for 2 reasons.

1. They are bookable through mid-November, which is how far out G4’s schedule goes
2. G4’s route map doesn’t show them as seasonal
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
kq747
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:18 pm

iyerhari wrote:
airbazar wrote:
georgiabill wrote:
I am hoping for BOS-ATH-BOS on DL or DY summer seasonal 2021 3x-4x from end of May end of September anyone else see this as a possible international addition to BOS route map?

OS will be a big test for that market. Seasonally, OS serves just about every imaginable airport in Greece:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A ... stinations
Factor in connections via every major European hub, including DL's own in AMS and CDG, and it's hard to see a non-stop happening in a market that is so leisure/VFR heavy and a relatively long route.

The only US airports who fly to ATH are seasonal flights on DL from JFK and UA from EWR. Both are massive international pax stations and even they have seasonal flights. Pretty much everyone else as you say maybe flying from LHR, CDG, AMS stations.
RL757PVD wrote:
[
GRR ends in mid august the others end in November

Thank you.


I believe Norweigian is starting seasonal flights this year to JFK and last time I was at ATH I recall an AA 330 to PHL
 
RL757PVD
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:20 pm

VS4ever wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
From the looks of it i'd say Terminal E morning gates ala F9.

I was hoping they'd try AVL from PVD, but the rest of the stuff are thing PVD would have never gotten (they did add PVD-MYR with this announcement too).

These are all seasonal so curious what or if they will offer in the winter, my guess is PGD and maybe PIE or SFB


I don’t think they are seasonal, I think they are year round for 2 reasons.

1. They are bookable through mid-November, which is how far out G4’s schedule goes
2. G4’s route map doesn’t show them as seasonal


Most routes on G4's routemap are actually seasonal, PVD-CVG doesn't show up as seasonal. The ones shown as seasonal are really more on "hiatus" i.e. PSM-SAV which is not bookable at all this spring summer or fall.

Not to mention every route was announced as seasonal...

I'll bet every one of those routes is gone for the winter except MAYBE AVL. My $0.02 is you will see a few Florida route such as PGD and PIE take their place.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
iyerhari
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:29 pm

kq747 wrote:
I believe Norweigian is starting seasonal flights this year to JFK and last time I was at ATH I recall an AA 330 to PHL

Sorry i stand corrected. I looked through the route map again and see - DY seasonal to JFK. AA also flies seasonal from PHL and ORD.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:32 pm

AA adding IND-BOS......
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:39 pm

 
aaflyer777
Posts: 266
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:54 pm

I wonder what triggered AAs sudden decision to add flights out of BOS instead of cutting them, they seem to be getting more and more aggressive about protecting their market share. I'm curious to see if DL will respond at all
 
iyerhari
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:56 pm

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1439027

Three new additions by AA. AA back in action at BOS!!
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:08 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
I wonder what triggered AAs sudden decision to add flights out of BOS instead of cutting them, they seem to be getting more and more aggressive about protecting their market share. I'm curious to see if DL will respond at all


One of the issues could be their gate lease contracts with Massport require them to utilize gates on average as much as airport-wide usage or you have to give them up, with all their cuts, they were probably in danger of triggering that clause, while AA are the only ones left with leases of more than 1 year at a time, they are coming up soon, some in 2021 and some in 2023, however the clause applies regardless.

maybe they have finally decided as you state to protect market share, with DL and B6's relentless growth, I suspect they could be losing a bunch of FF's to the others..
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:12 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
I wonder what triggered AAs sudden decision to add flights out of BOS instead of cutting them, they seem to be getting more and more aggressive about protecting their market share. I'm curious to see if DL will respond at all


Big jab at JetBlue, actually.
JetBlue has its mouth full of "Europe this and that", and "London this and that"...but it is AA (and DL) that actually put their actions were their mouths are and add flights. Clearly, AA is seeing money in adding BOS-ILM/IND/RDU and might actually preempt B6 on BOS-ILM/IND.

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