Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
tjerome
Posts: 326
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:43 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
Some positive news out of the OAG thread, DL is resuming BOS-CDG in August 4x weekly, AMS appears to be going daily. BOS-LAS/BNA/RDU all resuming in August as well. Still no where near where they were departure wise in August last year but at least its showing some signs of life!


LAS is on a 757 with lie flat seats too. Slight downgauge from a 739 with 180 seats (this 75S has 168).
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:01 pm

factsonly wrote:
panamair wrote:
Looks like DL will restart BOS-AMS 4x weekly on the 763ER in July.

https://news.delta.com/more-flights-ser ... y-measures


KLM will commence AMS-BOS 3x weekly on July 1st, so the AF/DL/KL Joint Venture will be back to daily BOS-AMS.


The KL flight seems to be cargo only. Not possible to book the July 1st flight.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2912
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:02 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
factsonly wrote:
panamair wrote:
Looks like DL will restart BOS-AMS 4x weekly on the 763ER in July.

https://news.delta.com/more-flights-ser ... y-measures


KLM will commence AMS-BOS 3x weekly on July 1st, so the AF/DL/KL Joint Venture will be back to daily BOS-AMS.


The KL flight seems to be cargo only. Not possible to book the July 1st flight.


Now from July 8th, 2020:

- BOS 18:25 - AMS 07:00 KL618 A333
 
FGITD
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:28 pm

factsonly wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
factsonly wrote:

KLM will commence AMS-BOS 3x weekly on July 1st, so the AF/DL/KL Joint Venture will be back to daily BOS-AMS.


The KL flight seems to be cargo only. Not possible to book the July 1st flight.


Now from July 8th, 2020:

- BOS 18:25 - AMS 07:00 KL618 A333


KL (and I think AF) will be cargo only until the week of July 6. After that it'll be pax. I believe it's actually going to be a 772 though. Also interestingly, it stays in Boston for 24 hours, I assume for crew purposes. Hard to believe the airport is so quiet that a European flight can stay overnight. In a normal July, something like that would congest up the terminal for 5 days

I've also heard JAL and KE are looking to start in September.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2561
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:29 pm

georgiabill wrote:
Any news on CX JL KE or HU? Hopefully some will return to BOS


Latest from KE
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... gust-2020/
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
georgiabill
Posts: 1251
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:53 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:33 pm

I knew HU had financial issues. I think it is likely to see CA take over the PEK service from BOS. I am hoping CX returns perhaps in 2021.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10079
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:51 am

hinckley wrote:
FGITD wrote:
It's been a few years, so bear with me here...but as I recall from the various construction meetings I attended at the time, there was an issue of space with the same level dual bridges. Something like the aircraft would have to be parked further out, so they'd have been forced to shift the taxiway towards the AA hangar, and then it would have restricted access to North cargo area. I can't recall exactly, but I know there's a good reason why they built vertically instead of horizontally.

At the time they were built, there was a lot of speculation here that that was the reason they were constructed as they were, but I don't remember anyone actually confirming it as you have. It certainly adds logic to the design.

People focus too much on the "A380 label" but the reality is terminal E desperately needed an expansion, with or without the elevated A380 jetways. I have flown from the new gates since those opened and it is an experience that is 10x better than at any other gate in that terminal. And if you're lucky enough to be able to utilize the new lounges as opposed to the the old "hole-in-the-wall" lounges, then the benefits are magnified even more. If Massport used the A380 as an excuse or catalyst to get the funding to built that expansion, then that's called being smart and i don't see how that was anything other than a good move. When the A380's are gone, the elevated jetways will likely find a home somewhere else and not go to waste.

tlecam wrote:
Clearly both B6 and DL will be flying flewer flights and likely to fewer destinations for the forseeable future. I wonder, however, if they will use this as an opportunity to grow at the expense of AA (and to a lessor extent UA).

Surely you've read the news about B6's expansion from EWR :)
I can't stop but wonder what this crisis will do to LHR slots. It's still too early to tell but by the end of the year we should have a better idea about who survives the crisis and how many slots will be made available.
 
Northeast748
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:04 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:23 am

:scratchchin: Too bad they can't do a rather small project like the A to B connector now :duck:
 
FGITD
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:32 am

airbazar wrote:
People focus too much on the "A380 label" but the reality is terminal E desperately needed an expansion, with or without the elevated A380 jetways. I have flown from the new gates since those opened and it is an experience that is 10x better than at any other gate in that terminal. And if you're lucky enough to be able to utilize the new lounges as opposed to the the old "hole-in-the-wall" lounges, then the benefits are magnified even more. If Massport used the A380 as an excuse or catalyst to get the funding to built that expansion, then that's called being smart and i don't see how that was anything other than a good move. When the A380's are gone, the elevated jetways will likely find a home somewhere else and not go to waste.



I would be inclined to agree. It was a means to an end. If the figures I've heard are correct, just the lounge rent for those 3 will probably pay for that expansion over and over as time passes.

Really, my only dislike for those gates E10-12 is the positioning of the jetbridge stairs for ramp access. Inconvenient at best, but that's a pretty low level complaint, and also has 0 to do with passenger experience so...moot. Driving the upper jetbridge can also get a little hairy, but certainly not unsafe.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:33 am

VS4ever wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/291945/virgin-atlantic-july-oct-2020-operations-as-of-20jun20/

Currently (as things change like the wind) VS back to daily 333. Let’s see if that sticks


Why would ATL & SEA start in August & Sept and BOS is delayed until October when BOS has a much larger O&D to London than either of those markets? Is it because BA has the BOS market locked up right now whereas SEA & ATL have not had BA service in several months and BOS operated continually?
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1085
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:58 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Why would ATL & SEA start in August & Sept and BOS is delayed until October when BOS has a much larger O&D to London than either of those markets? Is it because BA has the BOS market locked up right now whereas SEA & ATL have not had BA service in several months and BOS operated continually?

Personally my two cents - DL feels there is a better chance of routing passengers through their hubs to fill the plane Versus a low O&D demand at this time. DL has also cut much fewer flights even in the peak Covid19 from SEA vs BOS. I think the Boston Globe had reported few weeks back that the number of crew on BA was higher than the number of pax. I do not know if things has changed.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:32 pm

iyerhari wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Why would ATL & SEA start in August & Sept and BOS is delayed until October when BOS has a much larger O&D to London than either of those markets? Is it because BA has the BOS market locked up right now whereas SEA & ATL have not had BA service in several months and BOS operated continually?

Personally my two cents - DL feels there is a better chance of routing passengers through their hubs to fill the plane Versus a low O&D demand at this time. DL has also cut much fewer flights even in the peak Covid19 from SEA vs BOS. I think the Boston Globe had reported few weeks back that the number of crew on BA was higher than the number of pax. I do not know if things has changed.


Was that an actual news source that reported that or an anecdotal post here on airliners.net?

When things went south fast and international flights were halted around the world BOS was one of only 7 international destinations BA kept flying. That should show how profitable and important the BOS-LHR route is.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... sumptions/

On top of that BOS was BA’s second largest US station with 4 daily flights. Heck even VS/DL ran 3 flights to LHR and were adding LGW this summer to bump LON service to 4x daily to match BA. Yet now BOS is the last US station to resume services on VS metal?

I guess my question is - given that mainland Europe (and the UK) is closed to international tourism and the US is closed to foreigner visitors - who does VS (and to an extent DL) think they’re going to fill the planes with in markets like MCO, SEA & ATL when they have rather low local demand and are primarily filled (especially the MCO flights) with leisure traffic?
 
airbazar
Posts: 10079
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:31 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:

When things went south fast and international flights were halted around the world BOS was one of only 7 international destinations BA kept flying. That should show how profitable and important the BOS-LHR route is.

[...]

I guess my question is - given that mainland Europe (and the UK) is closed to international tourism and the US is closed to foreigner visitors - who does VS (and to an extent DL) think they’re going to fill the planes with in markets like MCO, SEA & ATL when they have rather low local demand and are primarily filled (especially the MCO flights) with leisure traffic?


We shall see if they will fill the planes with passengers, cargo, or both. I don't think we can conclude anything at this point. In fact the situation is so fluid right now, it's hard to reach many conclusions. I suspect airlines are struggling to figure out the markets where they can have fewer losses and that gets reflected on the routes that they attempt to re-start.
But I'll say this: The UK did not impose a mandatory quarantine until 2 weeks ago. That has to play a significant role in U.S.-UK traffic demand. In addition, as you said most of Europe is still closed to U.S. visitors and is likely to remain that way for a while. With that said it must make sense for some airlines to focus on hub-2-hub routes where they can maximize feed at both ends.
I don't think it's a matter of one airline having an advantage of another (in this case BA over VS/DL), as much as it is a different strategy being played by different airlines. What this tells me tho, is that the role of BOS as a DL hub has been put on hold for now.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26101
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:56 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/291945/virgin-atlantic-july-oct-2020-operations-as-of-20jun20/

Currently (as things change like the wind) VS back to daily 333. Let’s see if that sticks


Why would ATL & SEA start in August & Sept and BOS is delayed until October when BOS has a much larger O&D to London than either of those markets? Is it because BA has the BOS market locked up right now whereas SEA & ATL have not had BA service in several months and BOS operated continually?


Seattle and Atlanta are Delta hubs that provider relatively significant feed. Orlando, while undoubtedly hurting more than others, is roughly a 50-60% larger local market to London than Boston, and probably going to soak in more traffic proportionally as secondary UK market capacity dries up (Orlando, not New York, is the largest local market from most secondary UK cities, including Manchester).
a.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:58 pm

airbazar wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

When things went south fast and international flights were halted around the world BOS was one of only 7 international destinations BA kept flying. That should show how profitable and important the BOS-LHR route is.

[...]

I guess my question is - given that mainland Europe (and the UK) is closed to international tourism and the US is closed to foreigner visitors - who does VS (and to an extent DL) think they’re going to fill the planes with in markets like MCO, SEA & ATL when they have rather low local demand and are primarily filled (especially the MCO flights) with leisure traffic?


We shall see if they will fill the planes with passengers, cargo, or both. I don't think we can conclude anything at this point. In fact the situation is so fluid right now, it's hard to reach many conclusions. I suspect airlines are struggling to figure out the markets where they can have fewer losses and that gets reflected on the routes that they attempt to re-start.
But I'll say this: The UK did not impose a mandatory quarantine until 2 weeks ago. That has to play a significant role in U.S.-UK traffic demand. In addition, as you said most of Europe is still closed to U.S. visitors and is likely to remain that way for a while. With that said it must make sense for some airlines to focus on hub-2-hub routes where they can maximize feed at both ends.
I don't think it's a matter of one airline having an advantage of another (in this case BA over VS/DL), as much as it is a different strategy being played by different airlines. What this tells me tho, is that the role of BOS as a DL hub has been put on hold for now.


Hub or no hub BOS-LON is such a large market that it doesn’t need connections to fill it. Wasn’t BOS one of VS first US markets in the early 90s, even coming online before MCO?

But I do agree with you that airlines right now are trying different strategies. DL in general has been extremely conservative and cut way more than AA or UA and I’m inclined to believe DL is leading Virgin’s US strategy. I also agree that it does appear for now that BOS is very much an afterthought for DL as far as their hubs are concerned.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:05 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/291945/virgin-atlantic-july-oct-2020-operations-as-of-20jun20/

Currently (as things change like the wind) VS back to daily 333. Let’s see if that sticks


Why would ATL & SEA start in August & Sept and BOS is delayed until October when BOS has a much larger O&D to London than either of those markets? Is it because BA has the BOS market locked up right now whereas SEA & ATL have not had BA service in several months and BOS operated continually?


Seattle and Atlanta are Delta hubs that provider relatively significant feed. Orlando, while undoubtedly hurting more than others, is roughly a 50-60% larger local market to London than Boston, and probably going to soak in more traffic proportionally as secondary UK market capacity dries up (Orlando, not New York, is the largest local market from most secondary UK cities, including Manchester).


I hear you and totally get that Orlando is a large market, but it’s 90%+ leisure traffic going to Disney and the theme parks. With borders closed to tourists who does VS plan to fill 2x daily 789’s next month with no ability for tourists to get into the US even announced??
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26101
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:39 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Why would ATL & SEA start in August & Sept and BOS is delayed until October when BOS has a much larger O&D to London than either of those markets? Is it because BA has the BOS market locked up right now whereas SEA & ATL have not had BA service in several months and BOS operated continually?


Seattle and Atlanta are Delta hubs that provider relatively significant feed. Orlando, while undoubtedly hurting more than others, is roughly a 50-60% larger local market to London than Boston, and probably going to soak in more traffic proportionally as secondary UK market capacity dries up (Orlando, not New York, is the largest local market from most secondary UK cities, including Manchester).


I hear you and totally get that Orlando is a large market, but it’s 90%+ leisure traffic going to Disney and the theme parks. With borders closed to tourists who does VS plan to fill 2x daily 789’s next month with no ability for tourists to get into the US even announced??


I agree and I don't think that Orlando will actually launch then at 2x daily. Maybe a few times a week. Airlines are only planning things a 2-4 weeks ahead. Turkish Airlines relaunched Miami today with only about 10 days notice, for example. Also, I don't think Orlando is approved for trans-Atlantic flights still? And that probably won't change in the near term.
a.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10079
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:55 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I hear you and totally get that Orlando is a large market, but it’s 90%+ leisure traffic going to Disney and the theme parks. With borders closed to tourists who does VS plan to fill 2x daily 789’s next month with no ability for tourists to get into the US even announced??

But those are exactly the people who will be jumpstarting the airline industry. Corporate travel will be the last group to start flying as corporations have a freeze on everything but the most essential business travel.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:05 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Why would ATL & SEA start in August & Sept and BOS is delayed until October when BOS has a much larger O&D to London than either of those markets? Is it because BA has the BOS market locked up right now whereas SEA & ATL have not had BA service in several months and BOS operated continually?


Seattle and Atlanta are Delta hubs that provider relatively significant feed. Orlando, while undoubtedly hurting more than others, is roughly a 50-60% larger local market to London than Boston, and probably going to soak in more traffic proportionally as secondary UK market capacity dries up (Orlando, not New York, is the largest local market from most secondary UK cities, including Manchester).


I hear you and totally get that Orlando is a large market, but it’s 90%+ leisure traffic going to Disney and the theme parks. With borders closed to tourists who does VS plan to fill 2x daily 789’s next month with no ability for tourists to get into the US even announced??


VS doesn't plan on flying. The only thing VS is planning for is to snare a bunch of suckers who will buy tickets on these ghost flights, then cancel those flights, and subsequently play a game of "catch-me-if-you-can" while retaining the funds and maybe give out (worthless) vouchers.
 
B6BOSfan
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:11 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:07 pm

Just completed a 5-day trip from BOS-MCO and DAB-BOS to visit family. Some observations:

- Logan Airport remains a ghost town. 5:30am traffic into the airport was virtually non-existent.
- My travel was confined to Terminal B. MassPort is doing an incredible job keeping the place the cleanest I've ever seen. They have physically roped off seats to make sure distancing is taking place. I did not see this in any other airport.
- Southwest's new home in Terminal B is gorgeous! The airline is doing a great job keeping passengers apart.
- Incredible to see the amount of traffic at BWI (yes, a SW hub) vs. Boston. Even Orlando was significant busier than Boston.
- Delta's gates in Terminal A had only four planes when I arrived at 11am Monday. It looked like an abandoned terminal.
- American/Terminal B has some gates blocked off -- seems like they just aren't being used.

Other observations not Boston-related:
- Aside from mandating masks, American Airlines is doing nothing in terms of social distancing. Flights from DAB-CLT and CLT-BOS were nearly full.
- Charlotte airport was a madhouse, American is clearly doing everything they can to maximize passengers.
- They are doing TONS of construction outside Terminal C. Clearly trying to take advantage of the lack of passenger traffic.

Based on what I saw, I can see why Boston will take much longer to bring all the way back to previous levels.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:12 pm

Not surprised at the lack of pax at BOS. After all, Massachusetts still has a 14-day quarantine requirement in place for outside visitors and returning residents.
 
tphuang
Posts: 4842
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:34 pm

I think the decline is not just Boston but all of NY/NJ/MA/CT. These were the hardest hit states in the first wave of COVID with far and away the highest # of death per 1M pop. Looking at the different charts, demand also dropped the hardest in this area. Makes sense why airlines have so much. Same thing has happened in all the NYC airports.

looking at yesterday, JetBlue had 47 departures, which is the highest they've had in a long time. After their recent adjustments, they max out at 83 departures in late July, which is about 46% of their pre-COVID scheduled # of flights or half of their 2019 # of flights in summer time.

But if you look at the actual breakdown on their July flights, it follows a pattern of very few flights to short haul business markets like NYC/ORD/PHL/PIT/RDU and much faster recovery to places like SJU (which is back to 4x daily), LAX and Florida. Either people are just driving on these shorter trips or they are fine with doing zoom calls. You see the same in NYC with AA/DL flying very minimally out of LGA compared to what they had pre-COVID, whereas leisure, transcon and VFR stuff out of JFK are at 50% to maybe 2/3 of the pre-COVID capacity. JetBlue themselves have said they are waiting to see when the business demand will come back, because it hasn't shown up yet.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1085
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:45 pm

BOS May-2020 numbers are out.

Total pax May-2020 203,328
Total pax May 2019 3,878,455
AAGR MTM -94.76%

YTD total pax 2020: 7,763,017
YTD total pax 2019: 16,407,337
AAGR YTD: -52.7%

Detailed stats:

Domestic May-20 May-19 % change
Domestic Commuter Passenger 15,252 234,105 -93.48%
Domestic Jet Passenger 179,626 2,857,426 -93.71%
Total Domestic Passenger 194,878 3,091,531 -93.70%

International
Bermuda/Bahamas/Caribbean 3,110 112,384 -97.23%
Canada 157 92,172 -99.83%
Central America - 29,351 -100.00%
Europe 2,949 415,300 -99.29%
Middle East - 58,738 -100.00%
South America - 7,494 -100.00%
Trans-Pacific - 59,585 -100.00%
Australia - -
North Africa - -
Other International - -
Total International passengers 6,216 775,024 -99.20%

General Aviation 2,234 11,900 -81.23%
Total airport passengers 203,328 3,878,455 -94.76%
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1085
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:47 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Not surprised at the lack of pax at BOS. After all, Massachusetts still has a 14-day quarantine requirement in place for outside visitors and returning residents.

That quarantine honestly has ZERO meaning and is completely dependent on the person concerned to ensure he follows through. That being said, if you just choose to go and visit an in-house dining area as they have started today, nobody can find out. This is different than what happens in Mumbai where my father lives where there are specific quarantine centers and the police ensure you do not run away. I think that folks in MASS are still scared although it needs to be seen after start of Phase -3 how this is going to progress.
 
boston5555
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:51 pm

Just completed a BOS-AUS out and back ... some thoughts and observations:

* BOS, as previously noted, was a ghost town on a Friday morning. No road traffic and terminals were empty
* Nice to have the Sky Club open in Terminal A
* I am really surprised by the total lack of DL activity at BOS - I know they have the traffic #'s and are much much more knowledgeable on demand, but it just seems as though DL totally shut down at BOS, whereas AA seems to be forging ahead with a fuller (relatively speaking) flight schedule.
* Similarly, I was surprised by the lack (again, relatively speaking) of DL activity at ATL - at one point I looked at the dep/arr listing on FlightRadar and WN was dominating the arrival/departure board - even noticed it when I was watching actual departures. Never thought I would see that at ATL.
* Between BOS and ATL ops, makes me wonder if DL isn't buying what others are thinking about air traffic and is determined to follow its own plan.
* All 4 legs of DL flights were sold out (with empty middle seats) - and when I tried for a later return on ATL-BOS, all BOS flights were sold out for the day (see above about DL's BOS activity - wonder if they will start to ramp up).
* Plenty of masks all around, including ATL and AUS terminals.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26101
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:12 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think the decline is not just Boston but all of NY/NJ/MA/CT. These were the hardest hit states in the first wave of COVID with far and away the highest # of death per 1M pop. Looking at the different charts, demand also dropped the hardest in this area. Makes sense why airlines have so much. Same thing has happened in all the NYC airports.


Yes. It's telling when you look at how Turkish Airlines for example as slowly starting resuming U.S. points, but still has not resumed New York and won't until next month.
a.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:54 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I think the decline is not just Boston but all of NY/NJ/MA/CT. These were the hardest hit states in the first wave of COVID with far and away the highest # of death per 1M pop. Looking at the different charts, demand also dropped the hardest in this area. Makes sense why airlines have so much. Same thing has happened in all the NYC airports.


Yes. It's telling when you look at how Turkish Airlines for example as slowly starting resuming U.S. points, but still has not resumed New York and won't until next month.


Yes, very foolish move of TK to start flying from COVID hots spots first :roll:
 
airbazar
Posts: 10079
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:44 pm

iyerhari wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Not surprised at the lack of pax at BOS. After all, Massachusetts still has a 14-day quarantine requirement in place for outside visitors and returning residents.

That quarantine honestly has ZERO meaning and is completely dependent on the person concerned to ensure he follows through.

I agree. MA and the U.S. are not like some EU countries or worse, China where they make you install and app on your phone and track your movements. Our self-quarantine is a mere recommendation and it's not enforceable.
I think these are some of the reasons limiting travel thru BOS:
- A larger adoption of technology by the work force and local companies, rendering business travel unnecessary. Case in point: https://www.businessinsider.com/how-fid ... -19-2020-6
- A more educated population that is informed and unwilling or afraid to spread the virus and are keeping their travels closer to home.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2561
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:35 pm

Well be interesting to see what happens with the EU threatening to ban US visitors, but right now BA looks a little more bullish about BOS with double daily slated for Aug 1.
Do I think it’s likely? Probably not, but this is the first time I have remotely seen any indication of moving beyond 1 daily, 2nd flight is with a 777 potentially

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-26jun20/
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:42 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Well be interesting to see what happens with the EU threatening to ban US visitors, but right now BA looks a little more bullish about BOS with double daily slated for Aug 1.
Do I think it’s likely? Probably not, but this is the first time I have remotely seen any indication of moving beyond 1 daily, 2nd flight is with a 777 potentially

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-26jun20/


These are two evening departures or one morning and one evening?
 
RobertS975
Posts: 965
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:17 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:31 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Not surprised at the lack of pax at BOS. After all, Massachusetts still has a 14-day quarantine requirement in place for outside visitors and returning residents.


It is an advisory, not mandatory.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:39 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Well be interesting to see what happens with the EU threatening to ban US visitors, but right now BA looks a little more bullish about BOS with double daily slated for Aug 1.
Do I think it’s likely? Probably not, but this is the first time I have remotely seen any indication of moving beyond 1 daily, 2nd flight is with a 777 potentially

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-26jun20/


First time BA has scheduled the new(ish) A35X into BOS?
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2561
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:26 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Well be interesting to see what happens with the EU threatening to ban US visitors, but right now BA looks a little more bullish about BOS with double daily slated for Aug 1.
Do I think it’s likely? Probably not, but this is the first time I have remotely seen any indication of moving beyond 1 daily, 2nd flight is with a 777 potentially

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-26jun20/


These are two evening departures or one morning and one evening?

Two evening departures 7.15pm on the 350 and 9.35pm on the 772




clrd4t8koff wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
Well be interesting to see what happens with the EU threatening to ban US visitors, but right now BA looks a little more bullish about BOS with double daily slated for Aug 1.
Do I think it’s likely? Probably not, but this is the first time I have remotely seen any indication of moving beyond 1 daily, 2nd flight is with a 777 potentially

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-26jun20/


First time BA has scheduled the new(ish) A35X into BOS?


Not quite, before Covid? BA has scheduled the 350 originally in September then backed it to August as part of their S20 schedule.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:58 pm

Yesterday I saw a JL 789 climbing out around 2:30pm and saw on FlightAware JL is flying BOS-NRT 3x week (Wed, Fri, Sun). Are these 789’s cargo only flights?

It still is operating under JL7 https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JAL7
 
FGITD
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:59 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Yesterday I saw a JL 789 climbing out around 2:30pm and saw on FlightAware JL is flying BOS-NRT 3x week (Wed, Fri, Sun). Are these 789’s cargo only flights?

It still is operating under JL7 https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JAL7


Still cargo only. I think JAL is planning on restarting passenger flights in September. I also have heard September for Turkish.

E has been a strange place to be. Ghost town, aside from the odd AF, KL, JAL or BA employee. Between them, the few TSA or Customs folks, and the cleaners, it's s striking silence everywhere in the building. Out on the ramp you previously couldn't talk to the people standing next to you, now you can hear the blades of planes at north cargo windmilling.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:36 am

FGITD wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Yesterday I saw a JL 789 climbing out around 2:30pm and saw on FlightAware JL is flying BOS-NRT 3x week (Wed, Fri, Sun). Are these 789’s cargo only flights?

It still is operating under JL7 https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JAL7


Still cargo only. I think JAL is planning on restarting passenger flights in September. I also have heard September for Turkish.

E has been a strange place to be. Ghost town, aside from the odd AF, KL, JAL or BA employee. Between them, the few TSA or Customs folks, and the cleaners, it's s striking silence everywhere in the building. Out on the ramp you previously couldn't talk to the people standing next to you, now you can hear the blades of planes at north cargo windmilling.


I can’t even imagine how quiet E must be now. Next month things pick up more with DL restarting AMS, QR restarting DOH, LH to FRA, AF to CDG and I believe next month is when EK restarts DXB, no? Then in August KE returns 3x weekly to ICN. Slowly it’s trickling back, though I’m sure everything is subject to change.
 
EWR2BOS
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:51 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:08 pm

GF works TSA at E, says the last 3 months have been nothing like she's ever experienced before. Screening 30 odd passengers her entire shift for most of the last 3 months, all from the one daily BA.
The airlines, at least the ones out of E, are constantly changing their plans as everything changes day to day with COVID. They expect and uptick next month but not by much. After all, you can only really go up from 30 passengers/day.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:22 am

Amazing to see AS and DL still fly BOS-SFO. They should simply stick a fork in it, especially AS IMHO.

clrd4t8koff wrote:
FGITD wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Yesterday I saw a JL 789 climbing out around 2:30pm and saw on FlightAware JL is flying BOS-NRT 3x week (Wed, Fri, Sun). Are these 789’s cargo only flights?

It still is operating under JL7 https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JAL7


Still cargo only. I think JAL is planning on restarting passenger flights in September. I also have heard September for Turkish.

E has been a strange place to be. Ghost town, aside from the odd AF, KL, JAL or BA employee. Between them, the few TSA or Customs folks, and the cleaners, it's s striking silence everywhere in the building. Out on the ramp you previously couldn't talk to the people standing next to you, now you can hear the blades of planes at north cargo windmilling.


I can’t even imagine how quiet E must be now. Next month things pick up more with DL restarting AMS, QR restarting DOH, LH to FRA, AF to CDG and I believe next month is when EK restarts DXB, no? Then in August KE returns 3x weekly to ICN. Slowly it’s trickling back, though I’m sure everything is subject to change.


Who is EK, KE, and QR gonna fly to the USA? AFAIK, most people (non-Americans) are still banned from entering the USA.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10079
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:53 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Who is EK, KE, and QR gonna fly to the USA? AFAIK, most people (non-Americans) are still banned from entering the USA.

It's not quite like that. Manny countries are not on the "banned" list. Notably, all of Asia with the exception of China and Iran.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... tries.html
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1085
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:25 pm

airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Who is EK, KE, and QR gonna fly to the USA? AFAIK, most people (non-Americans) are still banned from entering the USA.

It's not quite like that. Manny countries are not on the "banned" list. Notably, all of Asia with the exception of China and Iran.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... tries.html

I think the issue is many countries are not allowing international passengers. As an example, many states in India are already in extended lockdown with some relaxation until July-31. It becomes a contention if the stuck passenger is keen to travel and get stuck again somewhere else. Even Canada has placed restrictions on non-essential traffic. I personally do not see international traffic to pickup anytime soon - with the recent surge in cases, it makes it even more tough. I think all business traffic is pretty much over till the end of the calendar year. My hope is domestic travel picks up.
 
ASA
Posts: 1117
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:59 pm

airbazar wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Who is EK, KE, and QR gonna fly to the USA? AFAIK, most people (non-Americans) are still banned from entering the USA.

It's not quite like that. Manny countries are not on the "banned" list. Notably, all of Asia with the exception of China and Iran.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... tries.html


Lots of US citizens and Green Card holders who need to travel to/from those countries too ...
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:02 pm

Not sure why AS and DL still fly BOS-SFO. They should simply put a fork in it and end it.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3457
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:39 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Not sure why AS and DL still fly BOS-SFO. They should simply put a fork in it and end it.


AS still flies BOS-SFO due to the former VX FF base in the San Francisco Bay Area, and DL still serves BOS-SFO due to DL having a FF base in Greater Boston.

DL's SkyTeam partners CI and MU also serve SFO, and DL can offer connections onto CI SFO-TPE and MU SFO-KMG/TAO/PVG flights from its BOS-SFO nonstop flights.

DL also offers connections to some European destinations from SFO through BOS.

I think that DL will probably keep BOS-SFO nonstop service, not only due to the DL FF base in Greater Boston, but also due to international connections to China, Taiwan, and Europe that are available on the DL BOS-SFO nonstop flights.

I agree that AS dropping BOS-SFO nonstop service might be a possibility with UA having much larger a FF base in the San Francisco Bay Area, BOS likely to have nonstop service to SFO on airlines other than UA and AS, and BOS already having other nonstop or 1-stop connecting options to most of the destinations that AS's transpacific partners serve nonstop from SFO.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:42 pm

jplatts wrote:

DL's SkyTeam partners CI and MU also serve SFO, and DL can offer connections onto CI SFO-TPE and MU SFO-KMG/TAO/PVG flights from its BOS-SFO nonstop flights.


DL's Skyteam partner KE can offer connection from Boston to Asia via ICN. No need to fly the wrong way for 6 hours.
Besides, BOS-SFO has been a bloodbath for economy fares.
 
tphuang
Posts: 4842
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:54 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
jplatts wrote:

DL's SkyTeam partners CI and MU also serve SFO, and DL can offer connections onto CI SFO-TPE and MU SFO-KMG/TAO/PVG flights from its BOS-SFO nonstop flights.


DL's Skyteam partner KE can offer connection from Boston to Asia via ICN. No need to fly the wrong way for 6 hours.
Besides, BOS-SFO has been a bloodbath for economy fares.


As has cut BOS-SFO for July. August is still too far out to know what their final schedule looks like. DL has cut BOS-SFO for July/August. They haven't made their September cuts yet. I'd be very shocked to see that come back anytime soon, since they have said to not expect any domestic additions for rest of the year. I think airlines will all be conservative with capacity for rest of the year.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10079
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:44 pm

tphuang wrote:
As has cut BOS-SFO for July. August is still too far out to know what their final schedule looks like. DL has cut BOS-SFO for July/August. They haven't made their September cuts yet. I'd be very shocked to see that come back anytime soon, since they have said to not expect any domestic additions for rest of the year. I think airlines will all be conservative with capacity for rest of the year.

Bloodbath or not DL needs to fly BOS-SFO if they are serious about their commitment to BOS. I don't know this for sure but I have a feeling that SFO is a huge driver for corporate contracts.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:10 pm

Gov. Baker just slapped quarantine requirements on every traveler except those from the Northeast.
That can't be good for TCONs and flights from the south. More July and August cuts coming soon!
 
jplatts
Posts: 3457
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:20 pm

airbazar wrote:
Bloodbath or not DL needs to fly BOS-SFO if they are serious about their commitment to BOS. I don't know this for sure but I have a feeling that SFO is a huge driver for corporate contracts.


I agree with your point. In addition, DL should also re-add BOS-DFW nonstop service once demand for domestic air travel returns with DFW being one of the top destinations that DL doesn't currently serve nonstop from BOS and with DL having a FF base in both the Boston and Dallas/Fort Worth markets to support the return of BOS-DFW nonstop service.
 
EADSYABSOB73857
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:33 pm

tphuang wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
jplatts wrote:

DL's SkyTeam partners CI and MU also serve SFO, and DL can offer connections onto CI SFO-TPE and MU SFO-KMG/TAO/PVG flights from its BOS-SFO nonstop flights.


DL's Skyteam partner KE can offer connection from Boston to Asia via ICN. No need to fly the wrong way for 6 hours.
Besides, BOS-SFO has been a bloodbath for economy fares.


As has cut BOS-SFO for July. August is still too far out to know what their final schedule looks like. DL has cut BOS-SFO for July/August. They haven't made their September cuts yet. I'd be very shocked to see that come back anytime soon, since they have said to not expect any domestic additions for rest of the year. I think airlines will all be conservative with capacity for rest of the year.


Don’t know where to start... you cannot compare AS at SFO to DL at BOS -DL at BOS is running a larger, more international and more profitable operation. It may not be a profitable route at this time but DL is going to run it (just like B6 is going to run ATL or IAH) because it’s one of the biggest business markets from Boston, even though it may not be one of the most profitable, and may be a hub for another airline. London used to be a similar situation and look what happened; it has grown in load-factor, become more profitable and increased in flights (for Delta). I got news for you, DL at BOS is going to grow, and it may seem bleak right now, but it’s going to grow. You’ve challenged what I’ve stated on this forum when I’ve provided sources, and you’ve shot down and tried to discredit what I’ve said and you haven’t provided any data or sources and it’s been all speculative. You are clearly a very biased person, and you have your own agenda when it comes to airlines you support. DL and B6 will be huge contenders at BOS, and B6 will probably be more profitable and bigger, but you can’t just shoot down the strategy of B6 competitors.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2326
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Boston Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:38 pm

If BOS-SFO is so fantastic, maybe we should go back to the old days and have AA fly BOS-SFO again ;)

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos