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ThaneC
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:12 am

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:54 pm

I suggest that Miguel get in direct contact with the MNAA if he’s so concerned. The back and forth here is not helpful to anyone.
 
jplatts
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:11 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
Nashville needed a bigger airport to handle growth the growth they’ve experienced. They decided as a part of that to allow more than one international flight at a time. That’s not a radical idea.

This is not some billion dollar separate white elephant terminal that will sit empty we’re talking about here. BA is loaded to return 1 August (assuming Feds approve more gateways) but plans to return. It’s not unfathomable at some point in the future that WN adds MBJ or a couple targeted Caribbean destinations (where Nashville has had charters in the past).


There are still some more domestic adds that could be made by WN out of BNA such as the return of BNA-GSP/BDL/PVD/PBI nonstop service, the return of daily nonstop service to SEA from BNA, and the addition of BNA-ALB/ABQ/GRR/IND/PDX/RIC/SLC nonstop service.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14391
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:11 pm

miguel0881 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:

But what is the cost? It seems to be significant (indeed, even the temporary FIS upgrade was significant), and neither you nor MNAA seem to want to confirm. I also see that a detailed environmental impact study was prepared, including for the new IAB, so I find it hard to believe the impact is truly minimal. And I have nothing against BNA at all. But I do take issue with wasteful spending, and this seems to be a very prime example. If we cannot question these things, then what is the purpose of this thread? Maybe you could just confirm the total cost and we could move on.


Miguel, when was the last time you used BNA? There’s a fair amount of operational background that I think you’re missing but I’m not sure how much history I need to give you for it to make sense.


I am not a frequent user of BNA, so happy to have any background you think is helpful. But I do find it curious the more I look into it that MNAA does not anywhere mention the standalone cost of the IAB, and instead lumps it together with the lobby remodel. If it was a truly a minimal cost, as many here maintain, and if the lobby remodel represents the vast majority of the $327 million, then wouldn't they would be eager to highlight that fact? And while I understand that BNA has experienced unprecedented growth, I note for comparison's sake that WN only recently inaugurated a five-gate international terminal in FLL, which is one of their premier international markets. So the idea that BNA will soon make full use of their six-gate IAB facility is not very credible.


I don’t think anyone has suggested full international use of the of the IAB, but its utilization of the gates is likely to be pretty high. Before the renovation began, BNA had essentially zero gates for new entrants and negative ticket counter space (in the sense that the extant ticket counters did not have space for all carriers serving the airport). So the needs for gates and ticket counter space were very real.

Of the net 10 new gates in the present phase, WN has claimed 6, so without the IAB — which represents the other 4 net new gates — the the shortage of gates for new entrants would still exist. The gates are very much necessary.

That, of course, doesn’t answer the question of whether the gates need to be international, but the weekend beach flying alone justifies more international gate capacity, and the cost difference between making 2 or 3 of the new non-WN gates or all 6 of them swing gates is minimal.

ThIs is separate, but the changes to the existing IAB for BA reduced significantly the costs associating with operating that facility by eliminating bag recheck and security rescreen for arriving passengers; the existing IAB discharged into the concourse before those changes. It’s fair to ask whether those costs were allocated fairly (TSA and the user carriers enjoy most of the cost savings), but it’s hard to argue that the money was wasted.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
miguel0881
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:52 am

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:27 pm

ThaneC wrote:
I suggest that Miguel get in direct contact with the MNAA if he’s so concerned. The back and forth here is not helpful to anyone.


So in the "Nashville Aviation Thread" it's not helpful to anyone to ask questions regarding the current multi-year airport renovation in that very city? Then what in your view is the purpose of this thread?
Last edited by miguel0881 on Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
miguel0881
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:52 am

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:35 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Miguel, when was the last time you used BNA? There’s a fair amount of operational background that I think you’re missing but I’m not sure how much history I need to give you for it to make sense.


I am not a frequent user of BNA, so happy to have any background you think is helpful. But I do find it curious the more I look into it that MNAA does not anywhere mention the standalone cost of the IAB, and instead lumps it together with the lobby remodel. If it was a truly a minimal cost, as many here maintain, and if the lobby remodel represents the vast majority of the $327 million, then wouldn't they would be eager to highlight that fact? And while I understand that BNA has experienced unprecedented growth, I note for comparison's sake that WN only recently inaugurated a five-gate international terminal in FLL, which is one of their premier international markets. So the idea that BNA will soon make full use of their six-gate IAB facility is not very credible.


I don’t think anyone has suggested full international use of the of the IAB, but its utilization of the gates is likely to be pretty high. Before the renovation began, BNA had essentially zero gates for new entrants and negative ticket counter space (in the sense that the extant ticket counters did not have space for all carriers serving the airport). So the needs for gates and ticket counter space were very real.

Of the net 10 new gates in the present phase, WN has claimed 6, so without the IAB — which represents the other 4 net new gates — the the shortage of gates for new entrants would still exist. The gates are very much necessary.

That, of course, doesn’t answer the question of whether the gates need to be international, but the weekend beach flying alone justifies more international gate capacity, and the cost difference between making 2 or 3 of the new non-WN gates or all 6 of them swing gates is minimal.

ThIs is separate, but the changes to the existing IAB for BA reduced significantly the costs associating with operating that facility by eliminating bag recheck and security rescreen for arriving passengers; the existing IAB discharged into the concourse before those changes. It’s fair to ask whether those costs were allocated fairly (TSA and the user carriers enjoy most of the cost savings), but it’s hard to argue that the money was wasted.


Fair points. I do think you're right that BNA will see more weekend beach flying in coming years, especially as ever more connections on WN are added. It's interesting though if you look at the list of existing international destinations in the MNAA document I posted earlier that they list the following: LHR, YYC, CUN, CZM, FPO, MBJ, PUJ, and YYZ. Of those, and other than perhaps one off charters, I am only aware of BNA having had service to LHR, YYC, CUN, and YYZ. And of course two of those have pre-clearance and so don't need the IAB at all. Seems disingenuous to list those under "international destinations served." And WN doesn't even serve FPO, which also has pre-clearance. Wishful thinking I guess.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14391
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:54 pm

miguel0881 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:

I am not a frequent user of BNA, so happy to have any background you think is helpful. But I do find it curious the more I look into it that MNAA does not anywhere mention the standalone cost of the IAB, and instead lumps it together with the lobby remodel. If it was a truly a minimal cost, as many here maintain, and if the lobby remodel represents the vast majority of the $327 million, then wouldn't they would be eager to highlight that fact? And while I understand that BNA has experienced unprecedented growth, I note for comparison's sake that WN only recently inaugurated a five-gate international terminal in FLL, which is one of their premier international markets. So the idea that BNA will soon make full use of their six-gate IAB facility is not very credible.


I don’t think anyone has suggested full international use of the of the IAB, but its utilization of the gates is likely to be pretty high. Before the renovation began, BNA had essentially zero gates for new entrants and negative ticket counter space (in the sense that the extant ticket counters did not have space for all carriers serving the airport). So the needs for gates and ticket counter space were very real.

Of the net 10 new gates in the present phase, WN has claimed 6, so without the IAB — which represents the other 4 net new gates — the the shortage of gates for new entrants would still exist. The gates are very much necessary.

That, of course, doesn’t answer the question of whether the gates need to be international, but the weekend beach flying alone justifies more international gate capacity, and the cost difference between making 2 or 3 of the new non-WN gates or all 6 of them swing gates is minimal.

ThIs is separate, but the changes to the existing IAB for BA reduced significantly the costs associating with operating that facility by eliminating bag recheck and security rescreen for arriving passengers; the existing IAB discharged into the concourse before those changes. It’s fair to ask whether those costs were allocated fairly (TSA and the user carriers enjoy most of the cost savings), but it’s hard to argue that the money was wasted.


Fair points. I do think you're right that BNA will see more weekend beach flying in coming years, especially as ever more connections on WN are added. It's interesting though if you look at the list of existing international destinations in the MNAA document I posted earlier that they list the following: LHR, YYC, CUN, CZM, FPO, MBJ, PUJ, and YYZ. Of those, and other than perhaps one off charters, I am only aware of BNA having had service to LHR, YYC, CUN, and YYZ. And of course two of those have pre-clearance and so don't need the IAB at all. Seems disingenuous to list those under "international destinations served." And WN doesn't even serve FPO, which also has pre-clearance. Wishful thinking I guess.


The non-CUN beach destinations are all package holiday spots that, like in much of flyover country, have had a menagerie of carriers flying low-frequency service at various points.

Keep in mind, though, that CUN has had three carriers many recent winters, and the arrival times have been pretty close to one another. And it’s reasonable to presume that WN might try some other routes with more FIS capacity. It’s not international but WN did announce SJU for this summer before the pandemic hit. Anecdotally, I can tell you that AA sells a ton of connections to the Caribbean; their ticket counters are almost always a three-ring circus of leisure passengers in the morning.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 769
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:55 pm

miguel0881 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:

I am not a frequent user of BNA, so happy to have any background you think is helpful. But I do find it curious the more I look into it that MNAA does not anywhere mention the standalone cost of the IAB, and instead lumps it together with the lobby remodel. If it was a truly a minimal cost, as many here maintain, and if the lobby remodel represents the vast majority of the $327 million, then wouldn't they would be eager to highlight that fact? And while I understand that BNA has experienced unprecedented growth, I note for comparison's sake that WN only recently inaugurated a five-gate international terminal in FLL, which is one of their premier international markets. So the idea that BNA will soon make full use of their six-gate IAB facility is not very credible.


I don’t think anyone has suggested full international use of the of the IAB, but its utilization of the gates is likely to be pretty high. Before the renovation began, BNA had essentially zero gates for new entrants and negative ticket counter space (in the sense that the extant ticket counters did not have space for all carriers serving the airport). So the needs for gates and ticket counter space were very real.

Of the net 10 new gates in the present phase, WN has claimed 6, so without the IAB — which represents the other 4 net new gates — the the shortage of gates for new entrants would still exist. The gates are very much necessary.

That, of course, doesn’t answer the question of whether the gates need to be international, but the weekend beach flying alone justifies more international gate capacity, and the cost difference between making 2 or 3 of the new non-WN gates or all 6 of them swing gates is minimal.

ThIs is separate, but the changes to the existing IAB for BA reduced significantly the costs associating with operating that facility by eliminating bag recheck and security rescreen for arriving passengers; the existing IAB discharged into the concourse before those changes. It’s fair to ask whether those costs were allocated fairly (TSA and the user carriers enjoy most of the cost savings), but it’s hard to argue that the money was wasted.


Fair points. I do think you're right that BNA will see more weekend beach flying in coming years, especially as ever more connections on WN are added. It's interesting though if you look at the list of existing international destinations in the MNAA document I posted earlier that they list the following: LHR, YYC, CUN, CZM, FPO, MBJ, PUJ, and YYZ. Of those, and other than perhaps one off charters, I am only aware of BNA having had service to LHR, YYC, CUN, and YYZ. And of course two of those have pre-clearance and so don't need the IAB at all. Seems disingenuous to list those under "international destinations served." And WN doesn't even serve FPO, which also has pre-clearance. Wishful thinking I guess.


Again, that is because international growth at BNA has been hampered by the current, obsolete FIS, which only has one gate. You can’t currently process multiple international flights at the same time. The new facility will fix that, allowing six narrowbody or three widebody (777x/A350 level) aircraft at the same time. I guarantee the reason we haven’t seen more WN flying to the Caribbean like STL and ATL has been because of the subpar FIS. And once demand recovers, not only will BA return, but additional European flying will materialize as well. So all in all, the new IAB will get used.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:43 pm

jplatts wrote:

There are still some more domestic adds that could be made by WN out of BNA such as the return of BNA-GSP/BDL/PVD/PBI nonstop service, the return of daily nonstop service to SEA from BNA, and the addition of BNA-ALB/ABQ/GRR/IND/PDX/RIC/SLC nonstop service.


Your constant speculation can get tiresome, and I and NOT attacking you. But WN is becoming more "hub" oriented these days and though BNA is one of those "hubs", we're a long way from seeing the WN network of old. We'll see some old service restored, and some new service added...but we all know what "might" happen. Until it does... :banghead:
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
jplatts
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:06 pm

Here are the Q3 2019 PDEW's of some routes that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from BNA:
BNA-ALB - 48
BNA-ABQ - 54
BNA-GRR - 59
BNA-GSP - 26
BNA-BDL - 81
BNA-IND - 10
BNA-PDX - 189
BNA-PVD - 109
BNA-RIC - 90
BNA-SLC - 147
BNA-PBI - 40
 
dfdubflyer
Posts: 189
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:09 pm

I took some screenshots from BNA’s most recent bond offering:
https://imgur.com/DnoJCys
https://imgur.com/94Ronat
https://imgur.com/Cldglvp
https://imgur.com/y2lj2uu
https://imgur.com/4nv3NKz
https://imgur.com/fruGXje
https://imgur.com/1Tfe7DJ

They don’t break out the IAF portion of the new terminal at any point but I think it’s interesting to compare it to the other capital projects. Also I was surprised to see phases 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0 already written about.

On a per gate basis it’s higher than the new concourse D, however it also involves building an entirely new central terminal so it’s not completely surprising in that regard. Rebuilt concourse A is quite pricey based on their projections!
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:16 am

dfdubflyer wrote:
I took some screenshots from BNA’s most recent bond offering:
https://imgur.com/DnoJCys
https://imgur.com/94Ronat
https://imgur.com/Cldglvp
https://imgur.com/y2lj2uu
https://imgur.com/4nv3NKz
https://imgur.com/fruGXje
https://imgur.com/1Tfe7DJ

They don’t break out the IAF portion of the new terminal at any point but I think it’s interesting to compare it to the other capital projects. Also I was surprised to see phases 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0 already written about.

On a per gate basis it’s higher than the new concourse D, however it also involves building an entirely new central terminal so it’s not completely surprising in that regard. Rebuilt concourse A is quite pricey based on their projections!


So if I’m reading this right, they already issued bonds for part of Vision 2.0?
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:12 am

BNA will be in good shape by the end of 2021.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
dfdubflyer
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:01 am

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:07 am

BNAMealer wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
I took some screenshots from BNA’s most recent bond offering:
https://imgur.com/DnoJCys
https://imgur.com/94Ronat
https://imgur.com/Cldglvp
https://imgur.com/y2lj2uu
https://imgur.com/4nv3NKz
https://imgur.com/fruGXje
https://imgur.com/1Tfe7DJ

They don’t break out the IAF portion of the new terminal at any point but I think it’s interesting to compare it to the other capital projects. Also I was surprised to see phases 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0 already written about.

On a per gate basis it’s higher than the new concourse D, however it also involves building an entirely new central terminal so it’s not completely surprising in that regard. Rebuilt concourse A is quite pricey based on their projections!


So if I’m reading this right, they already issued bonds for part of Vision 2.0?


Yes, portions of the 2019 bonds will go towards BNA Vision 2.0
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 769
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:50 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
I took some screenshots from BNA’s most recent bond offering:
https://imgur.com/DnoJCys
https://imgur.com/94Ronat
https://imgur.com/Cldglvp
https://imgur.com/y2lj2uu
https://imgur.com/4nv3NKz
https://imgur.com/fruGXje
https://imgur.com/1Tfe7DJ

They don’t break out the IAF portion of the new terminal at any point but I think it’s interesting to compare it to the other capital projects. Also I was surprised to see phases 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0 already written about.

On a per gate basis it’s higher than the new concourse D, however it also involves building an entirely new central terminal so it’s not completely surprising in that regard. Rebuilt concourse A is quite pricey based on their projections!


So if I’m reading this right, they already issued bonds for part of Vision 2.0?


Yes, portions of the 2019 bonds will go towards BNA Vision 2.0


Interesting, but I see not much is going towards Vision 2.0, so it looks like the new Concourse A will sadly be delayed for a while.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:49 pm

Well the fence is up boxing off gates B1, B2, B3, C2, C3, and C5. Getting ready to start on the new IAB. Aircraft can no longer taxi pass the security checkpoint between C and B.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
dfdubflyer
Posts: 189
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:06 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

So if I’m reading this right, they already issued bonds for part of Vision 2.0?


Yes, portions of the 2019 bonds will go towards BNA Vision 2.0


Interesting, but I see not much is going towards Vision 2.0, so it looks like the new Concourse A will sadly be delayed for a while.


I wouldn’t interpret it that way. This round didn’t even cover all of 1.0 and I’m sure they plan for several more offerings over the coming years. Heck they did two in 2019 alone.

The A redo is expensive though so perhaps it doesn’t have to happen quite as urgently. If Satellite E is a third of the price perhaps that would take priority
 
BNAMealer
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Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:42 am

dfdubflyer wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:

Yes, portions of the 2019 bonds will go towards BNA Vision 2.0


Interesting, but I see not much is going towards Vision 2.0, so it looks like the new Concourse A will sadly be delayed for a while.


I wouldn’t interpret it that way. This round didn’t even cover all of 1.0 and I’m sure they plan for several more offerings over the coming years. Heck they did two in 2019 alone.

The A redo is expensive though so perhaps it doesn’t have to happen quite as urgently. If Satellite E is a third of the price perhaps that would take priority


Are you sure it didn’t cover all of 1.0? The gist I got for the news articles is that they’ll be able to complete all of Vision 1.0.

The new Concourse A is needed to free up the rest of C for WN. Plus, the current A is very narrow and has little to no concession space. It really needs to happen immediately after the current work is done.

The satellite Concourse E is only worth building if WN commits to help pay for it.
 
bobphelps87
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:36 am

BNAMealer wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

Interesting, but I see not much is going towards Vision 2.0, so it looks like the new Concourse A will sadly be delayed for a while.


I wouldn’t interpret it that way. This round didn’t even cover all of 1.0 and I’m sure they plan for several more offerings over the coming years. Heck they did two in 2019 alone.

The A redo is expensive though so perhaps it doesn’t have to happen quite as urgently. If Satellite E is a third of the price perhaps that would take priority


Are you sure it didn’t cover all of 1.0? The gist I got for the news articles is that they’ll be able to complete all of Vision 1.0.

The new Concourse A is needed to free up the rest of C for WN. Plus, the current A is very narrow and has little to no concession space. It really needs to happen immediately after the current work is done.

The satellite Concourse E is only worth building if WN commits to help pay for it.



Runway 2L/20R extension to 12,000 ft:
- Environmental Assesment for Professional Services Contract awarded to AECOM Technical Services
  - the scope of the EA includes two tasks:
    1) Early Project Planning
    2) Impact Analysis and Preparation of EA document
  - $3.3 million
- Design Contract awarded to Garver LLC
  - $2 million

Both contracts are from Vision 2.0 secured bonds

Also, Vision 2.0 bonds have already been secured for the north apron expansion (fill project), which is expected to begin in January

This info was from the board/committee minutes
 
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Boeing757100
Posts: 116
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:34 pm

This may be ironic, but at the time I saw this thread, it had 767 replies!
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:39 pm

bobphelps87 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:

I wouldn’t interpret it that way. This round didn’t even cover all of 1.0 and I’m sure they plan for several more offerings over the coming years. Heck they did two in 2019 alone.

The A redo is expensive though so perhaps it doesn’t have to happen quite as urgently. If Satellite E is a third of the price perhaps that would take priority


Are you sure it didn’t cover all of 1.0? The gist I got for the news articles is that they’ll be able to complete all of Vision 1.0.

The new Concourse A is needed to free up the rest of C for WN. Plus, the current A is very narrow and has little to no concession space. It really needs to happen immediately after the current work is done.

The satellite Concourse E is only worth building if WN commits to help pay for it.



Runway 2L/20R extension to 12,000 ft:
- Environmental Assesment for Professional Services Contract awarded to AECOM Technical Services
  - the scope of the EA includes two tasks:
    1) Early Project Planning
    2) Impact Analysis and Preparation of EA document
  - $3.3 million
- Design Contract awarded to Garver LLC
  - $2 million

Both contracts are from Vision 2.0 secured bonds

Also, Vision 2.0 bonds have already been secured for the north apron expansion (fill project), which is expected to begin in January

This info was from the board/committee minutes


I’m assuming the north apron expansion is the space needed for the future Concourse A expansion?
 
dfdubflyer
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:01 am

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:47 pm

The Authority developed the BNA Vision from the 2013 Master Plan to address the need for major renovation and expansion. The BNA Vision currently includes the following four phases:
BNA Vision 1.0 - Elements include the construction of a new six-story 2,200 space parking garage (completed in December 2018), the construction of two additional parking garages and a 64,000 square foot airport administrative office building, the reconstruction and expansion of Concourse D to accommodate six (6) additional aircraft gates, including the construction of a new central utility plant, the expansion of the ticketing lobby and the baggage claim area, the filling and paving of 500,000 square feet of terminal apron and taxi lane area, the construction of a new international arrivals facility, and the expansion of terminal access roadways and the relocation of Donelson Pike. The estimated cost of BNA Vision 1.0 is approximately $1 38 billion. All elements of BNA Vision 1.0 are expected to be completed during the forecast period.

BNA Vision 1.0 initially included the construction of a hotel at the Airport as part of the parking garage construction. Upon further evaluation it was determined that a public-private partnership would be sought, under which the private operator will construct and operate the hotel. The Authority is currently undergoing a process to develop a request for proposals, select a private developer, and develop a concession agreement. The estimated construction cost of the Airport hotel of $131 million was initially included in BNA Vision 1.0, however, is not included in the $1.38 billion project cost of BNA Vision 1.0.

BNA Vision 2.0 - Elements include an 8-gate satellite concourse (Concourse E), a deicing treatment facility, the curbside expansion of the departure and arrival levels of the terminal, the expansion of Concourse A to provide an additional ten to 12 aircraft gates, additional expansion of the airfield and apron, including the extension of Runway 2L-20R, additional expansion and improvements to the terminal access roads and transit connections, and additional support facilities needed. The estimated cost of BNA Vision 2.0 is $1 .5 billion. lt is expected that portions of BNA Vision 2.0 will start during the forecast period. Based on the forecast growth in passengers, the expansion of Concourse A is anticipated to be completed during the forecast period.

BNA Vision 3.0 - Elements include the construction of additional support facilities and various enabling projects needed for BNA Vision 4.0. The estimated cost of BNA Vision 3.0 is $0.7 billion and is expected to commence, based on forecast traffic growth, beyond FY 2028.

BNA Vision 4.0 - Elements include a new satellite terminal and a people mover. The estimated cost of BNA Vision 4.0 is $2.1 billion and is expected to commence, based on forecast traffic growth, beyond FY 2028.


As shown here:https://imgur.com/y2lj2uu
    $714m of the $810.0m round goes towards BNA Vision 1.0, however there is still $534.1m to be funded in subsequent rounds (w/ $904.9m planned in 2021 and $726.6m planned in 2023)
    The satelite is more cost-effective on a per-gate basis than it would appear that the A rebuild is, not accounting for differences in operating costs
    Portions of this bond ($15.0m) went to land acquisition and planning for the runway extension as pointed out by bobphelps87.

Another Concourse A nugget:
As of October 1, 2019, $712.0 million of the approximately $1 .4 billion total BNA Vision budget (5 l % of the total budget) is under contract. All such contracts are design/build and subject to Guaranteed Maximum Price which mitigates the risk of cost escalation. The projects included as part ofBNA Vision 1.0 were designed to meet future demand of22.0 million annual passengers, which capacity was expected to be reached in 2041. However, based on the recent extraordinary
growth in enplanements at the Airport, and various forecasts developed by, and for, the Authority, the 22.0 million annual passenger level could be reached much sooner than originally projected.
As a result, the Authority could embark on various additional projects contained in BNA Vision 2.0. BNA Vision 2.0 was developed to meet the increasing demand of up to 32.0 million annual passengers. However, the majority of the projects in BNA Vision 2.0 are modular and will only be pursued based on demand, so if passenger growth declines quickly at the Airport, these projects can be delayed until needed. Additionally, the Concourse A expansion can be built in stages, if needed.
 
bobphelps87
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:16 am

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:29 am

BNAMealer wrote:
bobphelps87 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

Are you sure it didn’t cover all of 1.0? The gist I got for the news articles is that they’ll be able to complete all of Vision 1.0.

The new Concourse A is needed to free up the rest of C for WN. Plus, the current A is very narrow and has little to no concession space. It really needs to happen immediately after the current work is done.

The satellite Concourse E is only worth building if WN commits to help pay for it.


Runway 2L/20R extension to 12,000 ft:
- Environmental Assesment for Professional Services Contract awarded to AECOM Technical Services
  - the scope of the EA includes two tasks:
    1) Early Project Planning
    2) Impact Analysis and Preparation of EA document
  - $3.3 million
- Design Contract awarded to Garver LLC
  - $2 million

Both contracts are from Vision 2.0 secured bonds

Also, Vision 2.0 bonds have already been secured for the north apron expansion (fill project), which is expected to begin in January

This info was from the board/committee minutes


I’m assuming the north apron expansion is the space needed for the future Concourse A expansion?


Correct. As we all know, the fill must be allowed to settle; thus why that project must get started well in advance
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:13 pm

Interesting facility alternative draft report from the master plan update.

https://flynashville.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/BNA-MP-Chapter-5-Alternatives-.pdf

Not only were they proposing redeveloping Concourse A, expanding Concourse D and the Concourse E satellite as possible future alternatives for more gates, they were also proposing a north extension of Concourse A (beyond the proposed redevelopment) with 7-9 gates. The current terminal facilities would need to be expanded to handle the increased passenger processing that would generate though.

Of course, this was all pre-coronavirus so obviously, most of this is years away from being needed. It is interesting nonetheless.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:19 pm

The current terminal exterior is getting painted gray as of now to match the exterior color of Concourse D. Farewell White. Gates C4 and C7 got a fresh coat.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:56 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
The current terminal exterior is getting painted gray as of now to match the exterior color of Concourse D. Farewell White. Gates C4 and C7 got a fresh coat.


Have they formally decommissioned the gates that are in the way of the new IAB and moved the airlines around yet?
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:41 am

BNAMealer wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
The current terminal exterior is getting painted gray as of now to match the exterior color of Concourse D. Farewell White. Gates C4 and C7 got a fresh coat.


Have they formally decommissioned the gates that are in the way of the new IAB and moved the airlines around yet?


C2, C3, B1, B2 are decommissioned and blocked off. The ramp is essentially split in two. Planes can’t taxi past the security checkpoint anymore. The airlines haven’t moved around yet. I believe AS and G4 are moving to C5 and C6 next month.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:18 am

southwest1675 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
The current terminal exterior is getting painted gray as of now to match the exterior color of Concourse D. Farewell White. Gates C4 and C7 got a fresh coat.


Have they formally decommissioned the gates that are in the way of the new IAB and moved the airlines around yet?


C2, C3, B1, B2 are decommissioned and blocked off. The ramp is essentially split in two. Planes can’t taxi past the security checkpoint anymore. The airlines haven’t moved around yet. I believe AS and G4 are moving to C5 and C6 next month.


So only two are being blocked off on B & C? Interesting
 
ZazuPIT
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:40 pm

Anyone know whose 747 departed around noon today (Thursday), and its destination? I couldn't get a decent look and drive at the same time.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:46 pm

ZazuPIT wrote:
Anyone know whose 747 departed around noon today (Thursday), and its destination? I couldn't get a decent look and drive at the same time.


Polar Air Cargo
From Soeul-Wuxi-Anchorage.
To Anchorage
Last edited by Jshank83 on Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
ZazuPIT
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:32 pm

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:48 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
ZazuPIT wrote:
Anyone know whose 747 departed around noon today (Thursday), and its destination? I couldn't get a decent look and drive at the same time.


Polar Air Cargo.
From Soeul-Wuxi-Anchorage.
To Anchorage


Thanks!
 
HeyHey
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:57 am

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:37 am

It also looked like that 747 missed it initial approach. I noticed it circling around over I-65 north of Downtown this morning and thought it was odd. I pulled up flight radar and noticed that it had to go around after apparently missing its landing approach. At least, that’s what my non-pilot thinking was.
 
rexchase12
Posts: 29
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:40 am

It even did a go around prior to landing.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/GTI ... /PANC/KBNA
 
panam330
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:50 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
jplatts wrote:

There are still some more domestic adds that could be made by WN out of BNA such as the return of BNA-GSP/BDL/PVD/PBI nonstop service, the return of daily nonstop service to SEA from BNA, and the addition of BNA-ALB/ABQ/GRR/IND/PDX/RIC/SLC nonstop service.


Your constant speculation can get tiresome, and I and NOT attacking you. But WN is becoming more "hub" oriented these days and though BNA is one of those "hubs", we're a long way from seeing the WN network of old. We'll see some old service restored, and some new service added...but we all know what "might" happen. Until it does... :banghead:

He’s gotta be a bot. It’s extremely annoying to read a list of a dozen+ routes in EVERY post he makes, related on a tangent to what’s being responded to without actually responding to the questions at hand. Man, I miss the paywall.
 
Mac289
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:12 am

Southwest went through the test fitment process for all gates on the D Concourse tonight. Pushes will be interesting to say the least.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:26 pm

Mac289 wrote:
Southwest went through the test fitment process for all gates on the D Concourse tonight. Pushes will be interesting to say the least.


I saw they’re doing 180s off gates 4 and 7.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
jplatts
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:36 pm

panam330 wrote:
He’s gotta be a bot. It’s extremely annoying to read a list of a dozen+ routes in EVERY post he makes, related on a tangent to what’s being responded to without actually responding to the questions at hand. Man, I miss the paywall.


There are other individuals who had mentioned WN possibly adding BNA-RIC/SLC nonstop service and WN possibly re-adding BNA-GSP/BDL nonstop service in the Nashville Aviation Thread. In addition, BNA-BDL, BNA-RIC, and BNA-SLC are also three of the top domestic routes out of BNA (based on Q3 2019 PDEW's) that don't currently have nonstop service out of BNA on WN.

Other reasons that I brought up additional domestic nonstop routes that could be added by WN out of BNA include
(a) the likelihood of WN adding a few more domestic nonstop routes out of BNA if WN acquires extra gates at BNA (and not just simply new WN international nonstop routes out of BNA or frequency increases on existing WN nonstop routes out of BNA),
(b) WN adding additional domestic nonstop routes out of BNA for reasons other than international connections such as O&D, domestic connections, and WN FF loyalty in the BNA market, and
(c) WN already connecting some passengers through BNA to some other leisure destinations in the Southeast such as CHS, PNS, ECP, and JAX from other parts of the U.S.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:40 pm

jplatts wrote:
panam330 wrote:
He’s gotta be a bot. It’s extremely annoying to read a list of a dozen+ routes in EVERY post he makes, related on a tangent to what’s being responded to without actually responding to the questions at hand. Man, I miss the paywall.


There are other individuals who had mentioned WN possibly adding BNA-RIC/SLC nonstop service and WN possibly re-adding BNA-GSP/BDL nonstop service in the Nashville Aviation Thread. In addition, BNA-BDL, BNA-RIC, and BNA-SLC are also three of the top domestic routes out of BNA (based on Q3 2019 PDEW's) that don't currently have nonstop service out of BNA on WN.

Other reasons that I brought up additional domestic nonstop routes that could be added by WN out of BNA include
(a) the likelihood of WN adding a few more domestic nonstop routes out of BNA if WN acquires extra gates at BNA (and not just simply new WN international nonstop routes out of BNA or frequency increases on existing WN nonstop routes out of BNA),
(b) WN adding additional domestic nonstop routes out of BNA for reasons other than international connections such as O&D, domestic connections, and WN FF loyalty in the BNA market, and
(c) WN already connecting some passengers through BNA to some other leisure destinations in the Southeast such as CHS, PNS, ECP, and JAX from other parts of the U.S.


Some of those you mention have only been mentioned by you and no one else. So thats not true.

_____________
That said, it is easy to add people to your hide list so if there is someone on here you don't like reading their posts then you can just hide them. It is very helpful.
 
reednavy
Posts: 57
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:50 pm

Mac289 wrote:
Southwest went through the test fitment process for all gates on the D Concourse tonight. Pushes will be interesting to say the least.

Any word on being a controlled ramp for at least that area? While unlikely, it just seems like a recipe for an expensive accident.
 
737MAX7
Posts: 130
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:25 pm

reednavy wrote:
Mac289 wrote:
Southwest went through the test fitment process for all gates on the D Concourse tonight. Pushes will be interesting to say the least.

Any word on being a controlled ramp for at least that area? While unlikely, it just seems like a recipe for an expensive accident.

Nothing I’ve heard on the controlled ramp front. You are 100% correct about it being a recipe for disaster since some of my fellow employees have no idea how to turn an airplane. Bring the popcorn!
 
jplatts
Posts: 3460
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:33 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Some of those you mention have only been mentioned by you and no one else. So thats not true.


There was a post by southwest1675 last year that mentioned WN possibly adding BNA-IND/BDL/PBI/PDX/ABQ/RIC/GSP/SLC/DSM/GRR/MEM nonstop service, and that post can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1412091&p=21594195#p21594123.
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:44 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
_____________
That said, it is easy to add people to your hide list so if there is someone on here you don't like reading their posts then you can just hide them. It is very helpful.


Yes, but then we may miss the absurdity of it all. :rotfl:
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
reednavy
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:01 pm

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:02 pm

737MAX7 wrote:
reednavy wrote:
Mac289 wrote:
Southwest went through the test fitment process for all gates on the D Concourse tonight. Pushes will be interesting to say the least.

Any word on being a controlled ramp for at least that area? While unlikely, it just seems like a recipe for an expensive accident.

Nothing I’ve heard on the controlled ramp front. You are 100% correct about it being a recipe for disaster since some of my fellow employees have no idea how to turn an airplane. Bring the popcorn!

I was with the ELDP program they had a DAL in 2016 and they taught me how to push planes in the zone for 5/7/9, and that was nerve wracking enough not just for myself but even veteran ramp guys.

I sincerely hope WN & BNA want it because it's 100% justifiable.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 769
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:39 pm

737MAX7 wrote:
reednavy wrote:
Mac289 wrote:
Southwest went through the test fitment process for all gates on the D Concourse tonight. Pushes will be interesting to say the least.

Any word on being a controlled ramp for at least that area? While unlikely, it just seems like a recipe for an expensive accident.

Nothing I’ve heard on the controlled ramp front. You are 100% correct about it being a recipe for disaster since some of my fellow employees have no idea how to turn an airplane. Bring the popcorn!


This is a good reason why Concourse D shouldn’t be expanded any further beyond what is currently being built. It’s way too tight in there. It’s a good thing only WN will be using the space though.
 
User avatar
southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:56 pm

reednavy wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
reednavy wrote:
Any word on being a controlled ramp for at least that area? While unlikely, it just seems like a recipe for an expensive accident.

Nothing I’ve heard on the controlled ramp front. You are 100% correct about it being a recipe for disaster since some of my fellow employees have no idea how to turn an airplane. Bring the popcorn!

I was with the ELDP program they had a DAL in 2016 and they taught me how to push planes in the zone for 5/7/9, and that was nerve wracking enough not just for myself but even veteran ramp guys.

I sincerely hope WN & BNA want it because it's 100% justifiable.


When I worked ramp, pushing off C4 on an 800 could be potentially challenging. You really had that tow bar on the do not exceed line. In regards to a controlled ramp, I’ve heard the FAA and airlines haven’t shown any money. This might change. I’m pretty sure the MNAA and TSA cleared out of the offices in the old ramp tower.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
737MAX7
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:43 pm

reednavy wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
reednavy wrote:
Any word on being a controlled ramp for at least that area? While unlikely, it just seems like a recipe for an expensive accident.

Nothing I’ve heard on the controlled ramp front. You are 100% correct about it being a recipe for disaster since some of my fellow employees have no idea how to turn an airplane. Bring the popcorn!

I was with the ELDP program they had a DAL in 2016 and they taught me how to push planes in the zone for 5/7/9, and that was nerve wracking enough not just for myself but even veteran ramp guys.

I sincerely hope WN & BNA want it because it's 100% justifiable.

Luckily I started my career at CLE we had taxiway Juliet right behind our gates which was the main taxiway to rwy 24L/R so we had to turn when pushing off B10/11 so turning a plane to me is no big deal. I could go on and on but I’ll leave it at that. I just hope that no one gets hurt.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:47 pm

737MAX7 wrote:
reednavy wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
Nothing I’ve heard on the controlled ramp front. You are 100% correct about it being a recipe for disaster since some of my fellow employees have no idea how to turn an airplane. Bring the popcorn!

I was with the ELDP program they had a DAL in 2016 and they taught me how to push planes in the zone for 5/7/9, and that was nerve wracking enough not just for myself but even veteran ramp guys.

I sincerely hope WN & BNA want it because it's 100% justifiable.

Luckily I started my career at CLE we had taxiway Juliet right behind our gates which was the main taxiway to rwy 24L/R so we had to turn when pushing off B10/11 so turning a plane to me is no big deal. I could go on and on but I’ll leave it at that. I just hope that no one gets hurt.


I’m still always worried I could damage something just operating the jetway.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
Mac289
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:33 pm

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:08 pm

737MAX7 wrote:
reednavy wrote:
Mac289 wrote:
Southwest went through the test fitment process for all gates on the D Concourse tonight. Pushes will be interesting to say the least.

Any word on being a controlled ramp for at least that area? While unlikely, it just seems like a recipe for an expensive accident.

Nothing I’ve heard on the controlled ramp front. You are 100% correct about it being a recipe for disaster since some of my fellow employees have no idea how to turn an airplane. Bring the popcorn!



Right now I'm hearing it will be controlled by WN ops, NOT the airport. This should be absolutely thrilling.


After running through the test fitments, the lead in lines for D1 and D6 are going to be removed due to excessive tail drift with the 800s. Quite a bit of correcting on D6 had to be done when the pilot was pulling in just to get the tail to follow in line and not cause a wingtip to hang over the safety zone.

They brought up the idea of Push-Pulls to line the aircraft up with the dots on the ramp that have been painted, but that got shot down pretty quickly. D1 will be a decently challenging push, even for those with experience. D concourse will be pushing to the nearest taxi line and dots, C concourse will be doing the same with their taxi line. As of right now, D1, C4, C7, C9, and C16 are going to be gates where you have to do the 180. C16 and D1 will likely be the most difficult pushes, especially with 800s. D2 will be an S turn, reminiscent of the old way of pushing C4 so as to get the plane on the dot. D3-6 Should be fairly easy.
 
User avatar
southwest1675
Posts: 1452
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:03 am

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:16 pm

Mac289 wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
reednavy wrote:
Any word on being a controlled ramp for at least that area? While unlikely, it just seems like a recipe for an expensive accident.

Nothing I’ve heard on the controlled ramp front. You are 100% correct about it being a recipe for disaster since some of my fellow employees have no idea how to turn an airplane. Bring the popcorn!



Right now I'm hearing it will be controlled by WN ops, NOT the airport. This should be absolutely thrilling.


After running through the test fitments, the lead in lines for D1 and D6 are going to be removed due to excessive tail drift with the 800s. Quite a bit of correcting on D6 had to be done when the pilot was pulling in just to get the tail to follow in line and not cause a wingtip to hang over the safety zone.

They brought up the idea of Push-Pulls to line the aircraft up with the dots on the ramp that have been painted, but that got shot down pretty quickly. D1 will be a decently challenging push, even for those with experience. D concourse will be pushing to the nearest taxi line and dots, C concourse will be doing the same with their taxi line. As of right now, D1, C4, C7, C9, and C16 are going to be gates where you have to do the 180. C16 and D1 will likely be the most difficult pushes, especially with 800s. D2 will be an S turn, reminiscent of the old way of pushing C4 so as to get the plane on the dot. D3-6 Should be fairly easy.


Ops can’t even tell us when a plane is on the ground. The evening rush when things recover will be interesting. It really wouldn’t surprise me if WN made D concourse -700 only. I remember before the ramp was reconfigured -800s could only use 19, 23, 9, 7, and 4. No -500s on 25.
Herb Kelleher 1931-2019
 
Mac289
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:33 pm

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:27 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Mac289 wrote:
737MAX7 wrote:
Nothing I’ve heard on the controlled ramp front. You are 100% correct about it being a recipe for disaster since some of my fellow employees have no idea how to turn an airplane. Bring the popcorn!



Right now I'm hearing it will be controlled by WN ops, NOT the airport. This should be absolutely thrilling.


After running through the test fitments, the lead in lines for D1 and D6 are going to be removed due to excessive tail drift with the 800s. Quite a bit of correcting on D6 had to be done when the pilot was pulling in just to get the tail to follow in line and not cause a wingtip to hang over the safety zone.

They brought up the idea of Push-Pulls to line the aircraft up with the dots on the ramp that have been painted, but that got shot down pretty quickly. D1 will be a decently challenging push, even for those with experience. D concourse will be pushing to the nearest taxi line and dots, C concourse will be doing the same with their taxi line. As of right now, D1, C4, C7, C9, and C16 are going to be gates where you have to do the 180. C16 and D1 will likely be the most difficult pushes, especially with 800s. D2 will be an S turn, reminiscent of the old way of pushing C4 so as to get the plane on the dot. D3-6 Should be fairly easy.


Ops can’t even tell us when a plane is on the ground. The evening rush when things recover will be interesting. It really wouldn’t surprise me if WN made D concourse -700 only. I remember before the ramp was reconfigured -800s could only use 19, 23, 9, 7, and 4. No -500s on 25.



I mean you're not wrong! It's gonna be a show... I kinda wanna sit on level 6 of the garage and eat popcorn come July 17th
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14391
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Nashville Aviation Thread - 2020

Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:20 pm

At the airport today for my first flight during the pandemic. Let me confirm the sentiment that getting as much construction as possible done while passenger counts are low is the right move. I can’t imagine this place right now with normal summer passenger counts. Opening D will help some, though the Southwest gates don’t seem to be the craziest.
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