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audidudi
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:24 pm

n515cr wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Tue 9/22 B764 CAN-ICN ??? (mod exit)


Possibly both that were awaiting exit are leaving (1803 and 1815): DL9961 and DL9979.

Any info on which is the next one heading to CAN with the ferrying crews?
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:40 pm

socalflyer00 wrote:
Does anyone know if there is going to be a 777 retirement flight? Also, are there any domestic 777 flights (maybe any one-off's) scheduled between now and retirement? Would love to get on this bird in DL colors one last time.

The final scheduled domestic flight was a few weeks ago on September 5th. There were quite a few enthusiasts on-board.

Here is a link to a video trip report of the LAX-ATL-LAX flights: https://youtu.be/8dyTxUqL_ZA
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:42 pm

audidudi wrote:
n515cr wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Tue 9/22 B764 CAN-ICN ??? (mod exit)


Possibly both that were awaiting exit are leaving (1803 and 1815): DL9961 and DL9979.

Any info on which is the next one heading to CAN with the ferrying crews?


Haven't seen anything on the next inbound. Also, there's a decent chance that 9961 is now expired (a 717 ferrying domestically is currently en route with that flight #) and 9979 is the updated flight #.

Update: DL9978 scheduled in the evening of Sep 22 ICN-CAN: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/dl9978. I don't see anything inbound to ICN from the US, so maybe this is the same aircraft that's exiting shortly and bringing back pilots?
Last edited by n515cr on Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:48 pm

A few more updates as things are being scheduled for the week, lots like a relatively big week for aircraft ferries associated to reactivation, maintenance/mod exits, retirements, and deliveries.
This only takes us out to Wed, I'm sure more will be schedule for Thu & Fri.

Tue 9/22 B763 ILN-ATL 1201 N1201P (storage exit)
Tue 9/22 B764 CAN-ICN ??? (mod exit)

Tue 9/22 B772 SLC-VCV 7004 N863DA (been parked in SLC since 9/14, storage/retirement?)
Tue 9/22 A339 TLS-AMS 3407 N407DX (new delivery)
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9936
 
panamair
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:58 pm

I noticed that 2 of the 11 A330-200s are also back in service - N860NW and N861NW have been operating ATL-LIM.
 
n515cr
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:23 pm

Looks like the CAN-ICN exit may be punted by a day.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:32 pm

A couple more updates, even since yesterday, most particular of note is that A339 3407 moves to AMS today, and now 3406 scheduled TLS-AMS on Thurs.

Tue 9/22 B763 ILN-ATL 1201 N1201P (storage exit)
Tue 9/22 B764 ICN-CAN ??? (mod entrance)
Tue 9/22 B764 CAN-ICN ??? (mod exit)
Tue 9/22 B772 SLC-VCV 7004 N863DA (been parked in SLC since 9/14, storage/retirement?)
Tue 9/22 A339 TLS-AMS 3407 N407DX (new delivery, delayed due to weather in AMS)

Thu 9/24 A339 TLS-AMS 3406 N406DX (new delivery)
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:08 pm

"...Delta's A359 N515DN will based at AMS to operate exclusively on DL's international services for a period of 6 months, this to avoid new Trump import taxes on 'foreign' built Airbus aircraft. After six months the aircraft is no longer considered new and can be relocated to the US and operate US domestic services as well.

So temporarily parked at AMS until DL commences operations with N515DN...."


Source: Scramble.nl
 
jagraham
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:36 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
"...Delta's A359 N515DN will based at AMS to operate exclusively on DL's international services for a period of 6 months, this to avoid new Trump import taxes on 'foreign' built Airbus aircraft. After six months the aircraft is no longer considered new and can be relocated to the US and operate US domestic services as well.

So temporarily parked at AMS until DL commences operations with N515DN...."


Source: Scramble.nl


I wonder if the same will happen with the new A339s scheduled for delivery to AMS?
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:51 pm

jagraham wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
"...Delta's A359 N515DN will based at AMS to operate exclusively on DL's international services for a period of 6 months, this to avoid new Trump import taxes on 'foreign' built Airbus aircraft. After six months the aircraft is no longer considered new and can be relocated to the US and operate US domestic services as well.

So temporarily parked at AMS until DL commences operations with N515DN...."


Source: Scramble.nl


I wonder if the same will happen with the new A339s scheduled for delivery to AMS?


They are all coming straight outta TLS (Airbus), so odds are highly probable
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:35 pm

Things are very fluid this week...added another 763 leaving storage tomorrow

Actual:
Tue 9/22 B763 ILN-ATL 1201 N1201P (storage exit)
Tue 9/22 B772 SLC-VCV 7004 N863DA (been parked in SLC since 9/14, storage/retirement?)
Tue 9/22 A339 TLS-AMS 3407 N407DX (new delivery)

Planned:
Wed 9/23 B763 ILN-JFK 1708 N178DZ (storage exit)
Wed 9/22 B764 ICN-CAN ??? (mod entrance)
Wed 9/22 B764 CAN-ICN ??? (mod exit)

Thu 9/24 A339 TLS-AMS 3406 N406DX (new delivery)
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:06 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Things are very fluid this week...added another 763 leaving storage tomorrow

Actual:
Tue 9/22 B763 ILN-ATL 1201 N1201P (storage exit)
Tue 9/22 B772 SLC-VCV 7004 N863DA (been parked in SLC since 9/14, storage/retirement?)
Tue 9/22 A339 TLS-AMS 3407 N407DX (new delivery)

Planned:
Wed 9/23 B763 ILN-JFK 1708 N178DZ (storage exit)
Wed 9/22 B764 ICN-CAN ??? (mod entrance)
Wed 9/22 B764 CAN-ICN ??? (mod exit)

Thu 9/24 A339 TLS-AMS 3406 N406DX (new delivery)


How many 339s does that make on property after the Thurs delivery?
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
audidudi
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:49 am

FSDan wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Things are very fluid this week...added another 763 leaving storage tomorrow

Actual:
Tue 9/22 B763 ILN-ATL 1201 N1201P (storage exit)
Tue 9/22 B772 SLC-VCV 7004 N863DA (been parked in SLC since 9/14, storage/retirement?)
Tue 9/22 A339 TLS-AMS 3407 N407DX (new delivery)

Planned:
Wed 9/23 B763 ILN-JFK 1708 N178DZ (storage exit)
Wed 9/22 B764 ICN-CAN ??? (mod entrance)
Wed 9/22 B764 CAN-ICN ??? (mod exit)

Thu 9/24 A339 TLS-AMS 3406 N406DX (new delivery)


How many 339s does that make on property after the Thurs delivery?


Ships 3401-3407, so seven.
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:33 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
"...Delta's A359 N515DN will based at AMS to operate exclusively on DL's international services for a period of 6 months, this to avoid new Trump import taxes on 'foreign' built Airbus aircraft. After six months the aircraft is no longer considered new and can be relocated to the US and operate US domestic services as well.

So temporarily parked at AMS until DL commences operations with N515DN...."


Source: Scramble.nl


I doubt this is the case. You'll see this airplane ferry to NRT once N514DN is finished with PTS (about one more week to go)

If that 6 month clause were true, N389DN wouldn't still be flying only international trips to this day after being in the fleet over a year.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:24 am

777Mech wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
"...Delta's A359 N515DN will based at AMS to operate exclusively on DL's international services for a period of 6 months, this to avoid new Trump import taxes on 'foreign' built Airbus aircraft. After six months the aircraft is no longer considered new and can be relocated to the US and operate US domestic services as well.

So temporarily parked at AMS until DL commences operations with N515DN...."


Source: Scramble.nl


I doubt this is the case. You'll see this airplane ferry to NRT once N514DN is finished with PTS (about one more week to go)

If that 6 month clause were true, N389DN wouldn't still be flying only international trips to this day after being in the fleet over a year.


TechOps is also based in AMS, such testing can also easily be done here
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:53 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:

Source: Scramble.nl


I doubt this is the case. You'll see this airplane ferry to NRT once N514DN is finished with PTS (about one more week to go)

If that 6 month clause were true, N389DN wouldn't still be flying only international trips to this day after being in the fleet over a year.


TechOps is also based in AMS, such testing can also easily be done here


Yeah, I know. However PTS is not a testing phase, it is accomplishing tasks like installing wifi and other customer modifications before it enters service. The AMS station does not have the manpower, nor adequate training to accomplish these tasks.
 
factsonly
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:43 am

Meanwhile at AMS - September 23, 2020:

- N515DN A350 parked in front of KLM Hangar with engines covered.
- N407DX A339 parked in front of KLM Hangar with engines covered.
 
dalmit
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:05 pm

777Mech wrote:
I doubt this is the case. You'll see this airplane ferry to NRT once N514DN is finished with PTS (about one more week to go)

If that 6 month clause were true, N389DN wouldn't still be flying only international trips to this day after being in the fleet over a year.


N389DN was added in Feb 2020. https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... nes/rz6nx9

That's over 6 months but not really close to a year.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:57 pm

factsonly wrote:
Meanwhile at AMS - September 23, 2020:

- N515DN A350 parked in front of KLM Hangar with engines covered.
- N407DX A339 parked in front of KLM Hangar with engines covered.


I can see a DL parking lot forming... :bitelip: :bouncy: Should be an interesting sight to see, with a KL 744 veteran in the background against those DL newbies...
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:08 pm

777Mech wrote:
Yeah, I know. However PTS is not a testing phase, it is accomplishing tasks like installing wifi and other customer modifications before it enters service. The AMS station does not have the manpower, nor adequate training to accomplish these tasks.


IIRC, some center overhead bins must be removed and most ceiling panels removed so that wiring can be accomplished above the overhead bins. This along with cutting a large hole in the top of the fuselage.

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
I can see a DL parking lot forming... :bitelip: :bouncy: Should be an interesting sight to see, with a KL 744 veteran in the background against those DL newbies...


Reminds me of when the shiny new 777s were parked amongst all of the TriStars headed to the desert.
Last edited by DL_Mech on Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
TW870
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:08 pm

It is a very good sign regarding Delta's cash position that they are taking these widebodies. If they were worried about running out of cash, they wouldn't be taking any aircraft. I think flight schedules reflect little about a company's medium-term assessment, because they can always be changed. But when you part with cash for 2x339 and 2x359, you are assuming that - probably because of vaccine progress - your cash burn rate is going to decrease drastically some point in 2021.

Anyone know if they are still paying cash for airplanes like they were pre-COVID? Or are they using some other type of financing tools?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:15 pm

TW870 wrote:
It is a very good sign regarding Delta's cash position that they are taking these widebodies. If they were worried about running out of cash, they wouldn't be taking any aircraft.


How do you know these aren't contractual obligations that Airbus declined (at reasonable terms) to defer? It's cash out the door today. You can't just assume that DL really wants them and has a short-term productive use for them.
 
jbmitt
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:27 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
TW870 wrote:
It is a very good sign regarding Delta's cash position that they are taking these widebodies. If they were worried about running out of cash, they wouldn't be taking any aircraft.


How do you know these aren't contractual obligations that Airbus declined (at reasonable terms) to defer? It's cash out the door today. You can't just assume that DL really wants them and has a short-term productive use for them.


Exactly. The contract could specify remedies or damages close to the amount for delivery without the future benefit of a new aircraft. I'm sure DL doesn't want/need new aircraft at the moment, but understands it's future needs and considers the best ROI of cash used.
 
panamair
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:13 pm

TW870 wrote:
It is a very good sign regarding Delta's cash position that they are taking these widebodies. If they were worried about running out of cash, they wouldn't be taking any aircraft.


Well, their liquidity should be more than ok with the recent debt offering (two bonds and a term loan facility) of $9 billion (secured by SkyMiles); at the end of Q2, their cash balance was $15.7B. They indicated that cash burn for Q3 was about $27m a day during Q3, so they should end Q3 with about $13.2B. Adding the $9B should get them to around $22B if the $9B financing deals are completed by Q3. They have indicated though that at least some of that additional liquidity will be used to pay off earlier loans as well.
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:36 pm

dalmit wrote:
777Mech wrote:
I doubt this is the case. You'll see this airplane ferry to NRT once N514DN is finished with PTS (about one more week to go)

If that 6 month clause were true, N389DN wouldn't still be flying only international trips to this day after being in the fleet over a year.


N389DN was added in Feb 2020. https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... nes/rz6nx9

That's over 6 months but not really close to a year.


Right. I saw FR has it's age at 1 year already. Must be a typo.
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:49 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
777Mech wrote:
Yeah, I know. However PTS is not a testing phase, it is accomplishing tasks like installing wifi and other customer modifications before it enters service. The AMS station does not have the manpower, nor adequate training to accomplish these tasks.


IIRC, some center overhead bins must be removed and most ceiling panels removed so that wiring can be accomplished above the overhead bins. This along with cutting a large hole in the top of the fuselage.


You'd be correct, all of the bins over the Delta One cabin have to come down as well as some sidewall panels.

Supposedly NRT told DL that there are parking spots available for them, so that's when DL asked KL a favor to use the parking spots by their hangar.
 
TW870
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:49 pm

jbmitt wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
TW870 wrote:
It is a very good sign regarding Delta's cash position that they are taking these widebodies. If they were worried about running out of cash, they wouldn't be taking any aircraft.


How do you know these aren't contractual obligations that Airbus declined (at reasonable terms) to defer? It's cash out the door today. You can't just assume that DL really wants them and has a short-term productive use for them.


Exactly. The contract could specify remedies or damages close to the amount for delivery without the future benefit of a new aircraft. I'm sure DL doesn't want/need new aircraft at the moment, but understands it's future needs and considers the best ROI of cash used.


Are there examples of contracts that stipulate "close to the amount for delivery" as a deferral penalty from specific airlines in the recent past?

I do not think they have any short term use for these aircraft that other aircraft in the fleet couldn't cover. Rather, I meant that it is a hopeful sign that they opted for payment rather than a deferral penalty, because it may signify that they see a use for the airplanes in the medium term.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:13 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... t-year-end

In the article, written yesterday, its mentions two deals that are in-progress:

1) A sale-leaseback deal that would raise $750M for the 9 Airbus deliveries scheduled post-COVID in 2020. This includes 2 A350s, 2 A339s, and 5 A321s.

2) Defer 40 deliveries that were previously scheduled for this year
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:57 pm

DL_Mech wrote:

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
I can see a DL parking lot forming... :bitelip: :bouncy: Should be an interesting sight to see, with a KL 744 veteran in the background against those DL newbies...


Reminds me of when the shiny new 777s were parked amongst all of the TriStars headed to the desert.


Be careful what I wish for...Not my photo but nonetheless...N407DX all wrapped up, waiting to be unpacked
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9858631 :D :bouncy: Isnt this just lovely?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:45 pm

TW870 wrote:
I do not think they have any short term use for these aircraft that other aircraft in the fleet couldn't cover. Rather, I meant that it is a hopeful sign that they opted for payment rather than a deferral penalty, because it may signify that they see a use for the airplanes in the medium term.


I don't think we can interpret this as reason for hope. DL's positive free cash flow ended abruptly 1Q20, only weeks into the COVID slow down.

What we can infer is that taking delivery is viewed by DL as better than the deferral penalty. We don't know what that it - it's a very short list of insiders who do. Right now, DL seems to be able to do (favorable in its view) sale/leaseback transactions. Apart from the most recent sale/leaseback seemingly underway in PSU.DTW.SCE's Bloomberg link, DL already used this for some A321s and ten A220s after the start of COVID. Contrast that with AA's demand that Boeing itself line up financing for 17 MAXs or face cancellation. If AA insists Boeing to do it, we can understand that AA has no more better financing available on its own and would rather eat a cancellation penalty.

https://www.spglobal.com/marketintellig ... c-59398590
 
gdavis003
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:42 pm

N802NW (A333) scheduled to depart storage at BHM for ATL tomorrow as DL9960 https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KBHM/KATL
 
jbs2886
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:43 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
TW870 wrote:
I do not think they have any short term use for these aircraft that other aircraft in the fleet couldn't cover. Rather, I meant that it is a hopeful sign that they opted for payment rather than a deferral penalty, because it may signify that they see a use for the airplanes in the medium term.


I don't think we can interpret this as reason for hope. DL's positive free cash flow ended abruptly 1Q20, only weeks into the COVID slow down.

What we can infer is that taking delivery is viewed by DL as better than the deferral penalty. We don't know what that it - it's a very short list of insiders who do. Right now, DL seems to be able to do (favorable in its view) sale/leaseback transactions. Apart from the most recent sale/leaseback seemingly underway in PSU.DTW.SCE's Bloomberg link, DL already used this for some A321s and ten A220s after the start of COVID. Contrast that with AA's demand that Boeing itself line up financing for 17 MAXs or face cancellation. If AA insists Boeing to do it, we can understand that AA has no more better financing available on its own and would rather eat a cancellation penalty.

https://www.spglobal.com/marketintellig ... c-59398590


That interpretation is reinforced by the fact that AA has entered into agreements for the government financing, but DL has rejected that financing. The markets apparently are willing to loan money to DL, but not AA.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:35 pm

DL had a parked 763 depart from ILN to return to the fleet. Nice to see it return to service.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 221
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:25 pm

N406DX today just joined their siblings at AMS through DL9936

https://www.flightstats.com/v2/flight-d ... 1045024426
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 221
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:53 pm

Meanwhile on the other side of the Atlantic...

Source: Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... t-year-end

Delta in Talks to Defer 40 Airbus Jet Deliveries Beyond 2020

by Julie Johnsson, Mary Schlangenstein and Siddharth Vikram Philip

Delta Air Lines Inc. is in talks with Airbus SE to delay at least 40 aircraft deliveries set for this year, as the carrier grapples with a travel market stricken by the coronavirus pandemic, said people familiar with the matter.

At the same time, Delta plans to bolster its cash stockpile by raising $750 million from a sale-leaseback deal for nine of the remaining Airbus jetliners scheduled to be handed over, said the people, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private. The two transactions aren’t linked, meaning one could get done without the other, they said.

The financing involves five Airbus A321 planes, two A350 aircraft and two A330neo jets, the people said. Both deals follow through on Delta Chief Executive Officer Ed Bastian’s July pledge to tamp down capital expenditures on aircraft at least through the end of this year as the company works to stem losses from the collapse in demand for flights.

Airbus shares fell as much as 6% on Thursday, after Bloomberg reported on the deferrals.

The belt-tightening measures by one of the world’s best-capitalized airlines underscores the pressure on Airbus and its U.S. rival, Boeing Co. Both manufacturers have been working furiously to preserve orders at a time when airlines have little need for new aircraft and undelivered jetliners are stacking up outside their factories.

-‘Intensive Contact’

“We’re in intensive contact with customers, and Delta is no exception,” said Airbus spokesman Stefan Schaffrath. “Agreements remain confidential.” Delta declined to comment.

The Atlanta-based airline has vowed to reduce capital spending by $3.5 billion this year, in part by working with plane and engine manufacturers to “optimize the timing of our future aircraft deliveries,” according to a Delta filing in July.

A breakdown of the jets likely to be deferred wasn’t immediately available. In a research note, analysts at Citigroup estimated about 14 plane deliveries for 2020 remained potentially at risk, including A220 and A321 single-aisle models.

Airbus declined 2.7% as of 9:26 a.m. in Paris. The shares have lost 54% of their value this year. Delta dropped 2.2% in New York on Wednesday.

As of June 30, the airline held $14.2 billion in commitments for aircraft purchases, including $2.35 billion in the second half of this year. The filing didn’t provide the number of jets to be handed over during the last six months of 2020.

Almost all of Delta’s outstanding orders are for Airbus planes, and the scheduled deliveries for all years includes 100 of the A321neo, 27 of the A321, 64 A220s, 32 of the A330neo and 22 of the A350 jetliners. Most of the airplanes on order are due to be added to the carrier’s fleet through 2022.

U.S. airlines are slashing spending and parking some jets as domestic passenger totals languish at about a third of last year’s levels. With the coronavirus pandemic also slamming demand for international travel, carriers have fortified their cash stockpiles as well.

Delta borrowed $9 billion against its SkyMiles loyalty program in a deal announced last week. The airline, which had close to $16 billion in cash at the end of June, is burning through about $750 million a month, Chief Financial Officer Paul Jacobson said on Sept. 17.

-Delivery Dilemma

The squeeze on cash has thrown airlines into intense negotiations with Toulouse, France-based Airbus and Chicago-based Boeing over whether and when to take delivery on new jetliners that were ordered before the pandemic hit.

Both planemakers have slashed jobs and production rates, though some analysts have said they’ll need to scale back further.

Sale-leasebacks and other financing tools have helped bridge the gap in some instances, allowing carriers to reap cash upfront from lessors, often in exchange for higher monthly rent payments.
Inventory Glut

To date, Airbus has managed to largely avoid order cancellations by postponing handovers or allowing customers to switch to jets that better suit their post-pandemic needs.

CEO Guillaume Faury said in July that almost no customers were taking deliveries as expected six months ago, and that the manufacturer was turning to promissory notes or advance payments in some cases to ensure airlines remained committed.

Airbus’ own outlook is worsening, with Faury stepping up warnings this week that the company may have to make forced job cuts as it targets the elimination of 15,000 positions.

With airlines holding onto cash, the main variable for Airbus “appears to be inventory and the timing of its release,” Sandy Morris, an analyst at Jefferies International wrote in a research note. “Sooner is better than later, but sustaining production at an optimal level for the medium-term is the key, in our view.”

— With assistance by Charlotte Ryan, and James Cone


 
TW870
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:02 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-23/delta-in-talks-to-defer-40-airbus-jet-deliveries-past-year-end

In the article, written yesterday, its mentions two deals that are in-progress:

1) A sale-leaseback deal that would raise $750M for the 9 Airbus deliveries scheduled post-COVID in 2020. This includes 2 A350s, 2 A339s, and 5 A321s.

2) Defer 40 deliveries that were previously scheduled for this year


Excellent info and thanks for posting. Looks like this is a way to get Airbus capital for these finished airplanes, but then hold off on others until we get more clarity on vaccine, ramp up, etc.
 
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aal151heavy
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Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:57 am

My airliners.net photos
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8250
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:03 am

Recap of movements for the weekend (actual through Thu, planned for Fri)

Actual:
Tue 9/22 B763 ILN-ATL 1201 N1201P (storage exit)
Tue 9/22 B772 SLC-VCV 7004 N863DA (parked in SLC since 9/14, storage/retirement)
Tue 9/22 A339 TLS-AMS 3407 N407DX (new delivery)
Wed 9/23 B763 ILN-JFK 1708 N178DZ (storage exit)
Thu 9/24 A339 TLS-AMS 3406 N406DX (new delivery)

Planned:
Fri 9/25 B763 ILN-ATL 1601 N169DZ (storage exit)
Fri 9/26 A333 BHM-ATL 3302 N802NW (storage exit)

*B764 mod exit CAN-ICN was scheduled but appears to have been postponed
 
777Mech
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:18 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Meanwhile on the other side of the Atlantic...

Source: Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... t-year-end

Delta in Talks to Defer 40 Airbus Jet Deliveries Beyond 2020

by Julie Johnsson, Mary Schlangenstein and Siddharth Vikram Philip

Delta Air Lines Inc. is in talks with Airbus SE to delay at least 40 aircraft deliveries set for this year, as the carrier grapples with a travel market stricken by the coronavirus pandemic, said people familiar with the matter.

At the same time, Delta plans to bolster its cash stockpile by raising $750 million from a sale-leaseback deal for nine of the remaining Airbus jetliners scheduled to be handed over, said the people, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private. The two transactions aren’t linked, meaning one could get done without the other, they said.

The financing involves five Airbus A321 planes, two A350 aircraft and two A330neo jets, the people said. Both deals follow through on Delta Chief Executive Officer Ed Bastian’s July pledge to tamp down capital expenditures on aircraft at least through the end of this year as the company works to stem losses from the collapse in demand for flights.

Airbus shares fell as much as 6% on Thursday, after Bloomberg reported on the deferrals.

The belt-tightening measures by one of the world’s best-capitalized airlines underscores the pressure on Airbus and its U.S. rival, Boeing Co. Both manufacturers have been working furiously to preserve orders at a time when airlines have little need for new aircraft and undelivered jetliners are stacking up outside their factories.

-‘Intensive Contact’

“We’re in intensive contact with customers, and Delta is no exception,” said Airbus spokesman Stefan Schaffrath. “Agreements remain confidential.” Delta declined to comment.

The Atlanta-based airline has vowed to reduce capital spending by $3.5 billion this year, in part by working with plane and engine manufacturers to “optimize the timing of our future aircraft deliveries,” according to a Delta filing in July.

A breakdown of the jets likely to be deferred wasn’t immediately available. In a research note, analysts at Citigroup estimated about 14 plane deliveries for 2020 remained potentially at risk, including A220 and A321 single-aisle models.

Airbus declined 2.7% as of 9:26 a.m. in Paris. The shares have lost 54% of their value this year. Delta dropped 2.2% in New York on Wednesday.

As of June 30, the airline held $14.2 billion in commitments for aircraft purchases, including $2.35 billion in the second half of this year. The filing didn’t provide the number of jets to be handed over during the last six months of 2020.

Almost all of Delta’s outstanding orders are for Airbus planes, and the scheduled deliveries for all years includes 100 of the A321neo, 27 of the A321, 64 A220s, 32 of the A330neo and 22 of the A350 jetliners. Most of the airplanes on order are due to be added to the carrier’s fleet through 2022.

U.S. airlines are slashing spending and parking some jets as domestic passenger totals languish at about a third of last year’s levels. With the coronavirus pandemic also slamming demand for international travel, carriers have fortified their cash stockpiles as well.

Delta borrowed $9 billion against its SkyMiles loyalty program in a deal announced last week. The airline, which had close to $16 billion in cash at the end of June, is burning through about $750 million a month, Chief Financial Officer Paul Jacobson said on Sept. 17.

-Delivery Dilemma

The squeeze on cash has thrown airlines into intense negotiations with Toulouse, France-based Airbus and Chicago-based Boeing over whether and when to take delivery on new jetliners that were ordered before the pandemic hit.

Both planemakers have slashed jobs and production rates, though some analysts have said they’ll need to scale back further.

Sale-leasebacks and other financing tools have helped bridge the gap in some instances, allowing carriers to reap cash upfront from lessors, often in exchange for higher monthly rent payments.
Inventory Glut

To date, Airbus has managed to largely avoid order cancellations by postponing handovers or allowing customers to switch to jets that better suit their post-pandemic needs.

CEO Guillaume Faury said in July that almost no customers were taking deliveries as expected six months ago, and that the manufacturer was turning to promissory notes or advance payments in some cases to ensure airlines remained committed.

Airbus’ own outlook is worsening, with Faury stepping up warnings this week that the company may have to make forced job cuts as it targets the elimination of 15,000 positions.

With airlines holding onto cash, the main variable for Airbus “appears to be inventory and the timing of its release,” Sandy Morris, an analyst at Jefferies International wrote in a research note. “Sooner is better than later, but sustaining production at an optimal level for the medium-term is the key, in our view.”

— With assistance by Charlotte Ryan, and James Cone




I'm willing to bet all of the A220 and A321Ns get pushed back one year or more. There were already delays in the NEOs pre covid, so it's a good time for Airbus to get caught up on production.

They'll take the time to also slot in all of the future A320s to BFM as to avoid tariffs. Best to be in front of the line for these production slots there.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:48 pm

Well, the Bloomberg article states:

... Almost all of Delta’s outstanding orders are for Airbus planes, and the scheduled deliveries for all years includes 100 of the A321neo, 27 of the A321, 64 A220s, 32 of the A330neo and 22 of the A350 jetliners. Most of the airplanes on order are due to be added to the carrier’s fleet through 2022...


Thats a lot of outstanding 220's and 339's. If the economic downturn continues, their deliveries might be on going till at least 2025, I think
Last edited by FlyingHonu001 on Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jagraham
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:48 pm

777Mech wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Meanwhile on the other side of the Atlantic...

Source: Bloomberg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... t-year-end

Delta in Talks to Defer 40 Airbus Jet Deliveries Beyond 2020

by Julie Johnsson, Mary Schlangenstein and Siddharth Vikram Philip

Delta Air Lines Inc. is in talks with Airbus SE to delay at least 40 aircraft deliveries set for this year, as the carrier grapples with a travel market stricken by the coronavirus pandemic, said people familiar with the matter.

At the same time, Delta plans to bolster its cash stockpile by raising $750 million from a sale-leaseback deal for nine of the remaining Airbus jetliners scheduled to be handed over, said the people, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private. The two transactions aren’t linked, meaning one could get done without the other, they said.

The financing involves five Airbus A321 planes, two A350 aircraft and two A330neo jets, the people said. Both deals follow through on Delta Chief Executive Officer Ed Bastian’s July pledge to tamp down capital expenditures on aircraft at least through the end of this year as the company works to stem losses from the collapse in demand for flights.

Airbus shares fell as much as 6% on Thursday, after Bloomberg reported on the deferrals.

The belt-tightening measures by one of the world’s best-capitalized airlines underscores the pressure on Airbus and its U.S. rival, Boeing Co. Both manufacturers have been working furiously to preserve orders at a time when airlines have little need for new aircraft and undelivered jetliners are stacking up outside their factories.

-‘Intensive Contact’

“We’re in intensive contact with customers, and Delta is no exception,” said Airbus spokesman Stefan Schaffrath. “Agreements remain confidential.” Delta declined to comment.

The Atlanta-based airline has vowed to reduce capital spending by $3.5 billion this year, in part by working with plane and engine manufacturers to “optimize the timing of our future aircraft deliveries,” according to a Delta filing in July.

A breakdown of the jets likely to be deferred wasn’t immediately available. In a research note, analysts at Citigroup estimated about 14 plane deliveries for 2020 remained potentially at risk, including A220 and A321 single-aisle models.

Airbus declined 2.7% as of 9:26 a.m. in Paris. The shares have lost 54% of their value this year. Delta dropped 2.2% in New York on Wednesday.

As of June 30, the airline held $14.2 billion in commitments for aircraft purchases, including $2.35 billion in the second half of this year. The filing didn’t provide the number of jets to be handed over during the last six months of 2020.

Almost all of Delta’s outstanding orders are for Airbus planes, and the scheduled deliveries for all years includes 100 of the A321neo, 27 of the A321, 64 A220s, 32 of the A330neo and 22 of the A350 jetliners. Most of the airplanes on order are due to be added to the carrier’s fleet through 2022.

U.S. airlines are slashing spending and parking some jets as domestic passenger totals languish at about a third of last year’s levels. With the coronavirus pandemic also slamming demand for international travel, carriers have fortified their cash stockpiles as well.

Delta borrowed $9 billion against its SkyMiles loyalty program in a deal announced last week. The airline, which had close to $16 billion in cash at the end of June, is burning through about $750 million a month, Chief Financial Officer Paul Jacobson said on Sept. 17.

-Delivery Dilemma

The squeeze on cash has thrown airlines into intense negotiations with Toulouse, France-based Airbus and Chicago-based Boeing over whether and when to take delivery on new jetliners that were ordered before the pandemic hit.

Both planemakers have slashed jobs and production rates, though some analysts have said they’ll need to scale back further.

Sale-leasebacks and other financing tools have helped bridge the gap in some instances, allowing carriers to reap cash upfront from lessors, often in exchange for higher monthly rent payments.
Inventory Glut

To date, Airbus has managed to largely avoid order cancellations by postponing handovers or allowing customers to switch to jets that better suit their post-pandemic needs.

CEO Guillaume Faury said in July that almost no customers were taking deliveries as expected six months ago, and that the manufacturer was turning to promissory notes or advance payments in some cases to ensure airlines remained committed.

Airbus’ own outlook is worsening, with Faury stepping up warnings this week that the company may have to make forced job cuts as it targets the elimination of 15,000 positions.

With airlines holding onto cash, the main variable for Airbus “appears to be inventory and the timing of its release,” Sandy Morris, an analyst at Jefferies International wrote in a research note. “Sooner is better than later, but sustaining production at an optimal level for the medium-term is the key, in our view.”

— With assistance by Charlotte Ryan, and James Cone




I'm willing to bet all of the A220 and A321Ns get pushed back one year or more. There were already delays in the NEOs pre covid, so it's a good time for Airbus to get caught up on production.

They'll take the time to also slot in all of the future A320s to BFM as to avoid tariffs. Best to be in front of the line for these production slots there.


I understand delaying A321s, but why delay A220s?
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:13 pm

jagraham wrote:
I understand delaying A321s, but why delay A220s?


See the above discussion on the impending temporary 220 pilot shortage due to furloughs.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
777Mech
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:29 pm

FSDan wrote:
jagraham wrote:
I understand delaying A321s, but why delay A220s?


See the above discussion on the impending temporary 220 pilot shortage due to furloughs.


Ditto. I think everything they were supposed to take delivery of this year, they will take, and anything with a 2021 date gets pushed back to 2021, save the 321CEO and A350.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5365
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:46 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:

Source: Scramble.nl


I doubt this is the case. You'll see this airplane ferry to NRT once N514DN is finished with PTS (about one more week to go)

If that 6 month clause were true, N389DN wouldn't still be flying only international trips to this day after being in the fleet over a year.


TechOps is also based in AMS, such testing can also easily be done here

AMS is just a line station for Delta. Generally the heaviest stuff a line station will see is things like LRU changes, Engine changes etc. They certainly aren't staffed/equipped to do indoc work. Most testing would have been done at TLS. Indocs are normally things like wifi (a fairly heavy job), company specific stuff, sometimes engine changes and I have even seen things like winglets mods and seats installed during indoc (not at Delta). If I remember right when DTO was doing quite a few 767 winglets I believe UPS and/or LAN sent birds straight from the factory to Atlanta for indoc that included winglet mods.

Put it another way, NRT doing indoc work is the first time I can remember Delta doing it in a station that isn't ATL* and maybe MSP. Even stations like SLC/CVG/DTW/LAX/SEA that are way more equipped (staffing/tooling/hangar space) than AMS hasn't done them. I'm not sure MSP has ever done them and if they have, it was probably an A330.

*not counting indocs done by vendors


Frankly I don't expect NRT to do them that long. I can't see Delta holding onto that hangar very long. Hopefully they try to find space at HND for one.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8250
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:13 pm

B763 to be retired by Dec 2025 per SEC filing.
 
777Mech
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:18 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
B763 to be retired by Dec 2025 per SEC filing.


Anything else of note from the filing?

Off topic a bit, wonder if the 717 gets a mention in it.
 
jetcentric787
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:21 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:18 pm

717s too, 50 seaters gone by the end of 2023.
 
atlflyer
Posts: 731
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:13 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:26 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
B763 to be retired by Dec 2025 per SEC filing.


Are they going to keep the existing hard product until then? Ugh. 5 more years of it...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8250
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:01 am

Updates notes/commentary. Feel free to respond accordingly.

B763:
YE2019: 56
Current: 17 in-service, 37 in temp storage
Commentary: 7 announced to be retired in 2020. Per 8-K filing on 9/25 they intend to retire all B763s by December 2025.

Speculation/Opinion: This fleet is likely to continue to see accelerated retirements depending on trajectory of international demand recovery. There is a whole swath of frames that would be approaching their last HMV that are likely candidates for early retirement, in addition to frames that were already scheduled to retire over the next 2 years. With the backlog of A339 orders this was inevitable, and realistically a 2025 retirement date is maybe only 1-2 years earlier than anticipated pre-Covid.


B764:
YE2019: 21
Current: 10 in-service, 11 in temp storage
Commentary: Fleet was in the midst of D1 mods when the pandemic broke. They have started to bring the aircraft back that were in CAN for mods and also put additional frames into the mod.

Speculation/Opinion: It seems as though DL is committed to operate this fleet in the near-term, and likely at the expense of B763s. The aircraft are young enough they have a lot of time left, they sub-fleet is of enough scale to keep for now.

B777:
YE2019: 18
Current: 8 in-service, 10 in temp storage
Commentary: Retiring all by end of 2020. Includes all 77E & 77L aircraft. Last scheduled day of flying as of now is 10/24/20.

A332:
YE2019: 11
Current: 2 in-service, 9 in temp storage
Commentary: No official announcement of any pending decisions. Aircraft around midlife ~15 years.

A333:
YE2019: 31
Current: 15 in-service, 16 in temp storage
Commentary: No official announcement of any pending decisions.

Speculation/Opinion: DL appears committed to this fleet type going forward

A339:
YE2019: 4
Current: 6 in-service, 1 in temp storage
Commentary: New fleet no official announcement on revised delivery schedule. 2 recent deliveries in 2020 post-covid, aircraft part of sale-leaseback transaction.

A359:
YE2019: 13
Current: 13 in-service, 2 recent deliveries
Commentary: New fleet no official announcement on revised delivery schedule beyond 2020. 2 recent deliveries in 2020 post-covid, aircraft part of sale-leaseback transaction.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Delta Widebody Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:20 am

Spotted at AMS all wrapped up, thanks to Jetphotos.com :airplane: :camera:

N515DN - https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9856749
N406DX - https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9862174
N407DX - https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9858631

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