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IADCA
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:03 pm

msp747 wrote:
IADCA wrote:
xxcr wrote:


IAD is the quiet hub that one one talks about. Has UA invested in remodeling Concourse C? i flew out of there a few months ago....and that terminal was showings it's age....

Who think's IAD could use an additional terminal?


There's a pretty long-running discussion of C on the DC-specific threads on this board. Short story is that yes, a fair amount of money has gone into sprucing up C (which has a Polaris lounge under construction), but there's only so much lipstick one can put on a pig. It used to be much worse and won't be much better any time soon; the replacement of C/D - which was supposed to be a temporary building - is well into the future.

If UA is really serious about growing IAD to 450 daily flights, then the replacement for C/D will come much sooner than later.


I'd be all for both of those things happening, but MWAA would need to remarkably accelerate the timing, something they're not known for doing. Kirby has publicly stated that there are no plans to replace C/D in the near term, in part because it would raise IAD's already-high costs.
 
diatraveler
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:01 pm

The Denver Business Journal (in a premium content article) this morning is reporting that DIA and United have reached an agreement that will grant United 24 of the 39 new gates along with support space being constructed as part of the gate expansion project at DIA. The contract goes to a committee of the city council next week.

It does not say which new gates will be United's but we know that 11 are being constructed on concourse B and 12 are being constructed on concourse A, which will have international capability. I wonder if a Polaris Lounge will be forth coming fro United on concourse A.

Looks like United will be expanding Denver even more than anticipated.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:16 pm

diatraveler wrote:
The Denver Business Journal (in a premium content article) this morning is reporting that DIA and United have reached an agreement that will grant United 24 of the 39 new gates along with support space being constructed as part of the gate expansion project at DIA. The contract goes to a committee of the city council next week.

It does not say which new gates will be United's but we know that 11 are being constructed on concourse B and 12 are being constructed on concourse A, which will have international capability. I wonder if a Polaris Lounge will be forth coming fro United on concourse A.

Looks like United will be expanding Denver even more than anticipated.

I was surprised to see UA on Concourse C this week. They are really bursting at the seams. I suspect, UA will get a block of gates on A, possibly one or two Int'l Arrival gates, so I think it would be logical to open a 3rd United Club on A, but I would be shocked if they opened a Polaris club for an airport with only 3 Polaris routes. They will build 4 gates on the West end of B, and new commuter gates at the east end, but I don't know if they are considering that 8 or 16 new gates, because the 16 gates being built are replacing about 8 stands that were there. Even if that is 16, that would be 4 gates on A (or C). If it's 8, they would be looking at as many as 12 on A, which would definitely be enough to justify a new club if some of their int'l flights depart there.
 
N649DL
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:48 pm

cosyr wrote:
diatraveler wrote:
The Denver Business Journal (in a premium content article) this morning is reporting that DIA and United have reached an agreement that will grant United 24 of the 39 new gates along with support space being constructed as part of the gate expansion project at DIA. The contract goes to a committee of the city council next week.

It does not say which new gates will be United's but we know that 11 are being constructed on concourse B and 12 are being constructed on concourse A, which will have international capability. I wonder if a Polaris Lounge will be forth coming fro United on concourse A.

Looks like United will be expanding Denver even more than anticipated.

I was surprised to see UA on Concourse C this week. They are really bursting at the seams. I suspect, UA will get a block of gates on A, possibly one or two Int'l Arrival gates, so I think it would be logical to open a 3rd United Club on A, but I would be shocked if they opened a Polaris club for an airport with only 3 Polaris routes. They will build 4 gates on the West end of B, and new commuter gates at the east end, but I don't know if they are considering that 8 or 16 new gates, because the 16 gates being built are replacing about 8 stands that were there. Even if that is 16, that would be 4 gates on A (or C). If it's 8, they would be looking at as many as 12 on A, which would definitely be enough to justify a new club if some of their int'l flights depart there.


I don't think there is any room in A for another UA Club, unless they decide to close down concessions. The club area in A is taken up by the USO lounge, AAdmirals Club, and DL SC. Although the USO Club would be the one to part ways first, it was always PACKED when I lived in DEN.

However, UA always had a 787 parked in A when I lived there in 2016 and 2017. Nothing new, but they probably could share some gates with Frontier if they really wanted to.
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:10 pm

N649DL wrote:
I don't think there is any room in A for another UA Club, unless they decide to close down concessions. The club area in A is taken up by the USO lounge, AAdmirals Club, and DL SC. Although the USO Club would be the one to part ways first, it was always PACKED when I lived in DEN.

However, UA always had a 787 parked in A when I lived there in 2016 and 2017. Nothing new, but they probably could share some gates with Frontier if they really wanted to.


They could always build a club on the upper level similar to where the UA Clubs are in B. The space that's currently above the consessions on the west end of A feels rather underutilized. I haven't been over there in a while, but last time I was, there wasn't more than some restrooms and extra seating. I think a small Polaris lounge would be more than sufficient for UA's international flights and LH.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8538254 ... 312!8i6656
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:17 pm

diatraveler wrote:
The Denver Business Journal (in a premium content article) this morning is reporting that DIA and United have reached an agreement that will grant United 24 of the 39 new gates along with support space being constructed as part of the gate expansion project at DIA. The contract goes to a committee of the city council next week.

It does not say which new gates will be United's but we know that 11 are being constructed on concourse B and 12 are being constructed on concourse A, which will have international capability. I wonder if a Polaris Lounge will be forth coming fro United on concourse A.

Looks like United will be expanding Denver even more than anticipated.


None of the gates on B are "new". So I don't know if those will be included in that 24. United has 68 gates on B before construction, and will have 68 gates after. I have heard we are trying to get gates on A and C.
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:39 pm

Gates on A with a third United Club and possibly a Polaris lounge would make sense, especially international widebody gates. While the club space in the center of the A concourse is taken up by the USO, AA, and DL clubs, as "intotheair" mentioned, the upper level of the concourse outside of the center is available for use. I'm not sure if the space was already spoken for by UA via a gentlemen's agreement when Amex decided to build their lounge on C or if DIA told them No for other reasons. Putting the Amex lounge on A vs. C would have made a lot more sense in my mind.

The current UA Clubs on B are also packed most of the day. When the international departures occur starting midday, they often close the lounges to one-time pass holders. A third UA Club on A along with a smaller Polaris lounge would help congestion a lot and allow them to close each of the B lounges for several months for needed renovations. The new furniture a few years ago helped but both need to be renovated.
 
Pinto
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:15 pm

Bostrom wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Last: why is there such a difference in approach between how European F (Biz) seats on NB’s are simply Y seats with the middle seat blocked, and in North America it’s an entirely different seat? What has driven this different approach? Because on a recent multi hop in Europe on BA, LH and Vueling in “Business” I found BA’s slimline Biz to be so uncomfortable! (But certainly was not as big a price difference between main cabin and Biz as UA, DL & AA)


Guess: Flights are in general shorter in Europe as the population is more concentrated compared to North America where the coasts are densely populated with a lot of "fly over country" inbetween. Hence the seats are not as important and airlines value the flexibility of being able change the amount of the cabin sold as premium.


It allows the airlines to be more flexible with their configurations. If they aren't selling J seats they can simply move the curtain forward and boom more Y seats.
 
N649DL
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:08 pm

intotheair wrote:
N649DL wrote:
I don't think there is any room in A for another UA Club, unless they decide to close down concessions. The club area in A is taken up by the USO lounge, AAdmirals Club, and DL SC. Although the USO Club would be the one to part ways first, it was always PACKED when I lived in DEN.

However, UA always had a 787 parked in A when I lived there in 2016 and 2017. Nothing new, but they probably could share some gates with Frontier if they really wanted to.


They could always build a club on the upper level similar to where the UA Clubs are in B. The space that's currently above the consessions on the west end of A feels rather underutilized. I haven't been over there in a while, but last time I was, there wasn't more than some restrooms and extra seating. I think a small Polaris lounge would be more than sufficient for UA's international flights and LH.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8538254 ... 312!8i6656


That's true. Building upward is probably the way to go for UA to get another club in DEN (or expand East and West in B to a second level). I don't think UA will have enough flights to justify a Polaris lounge at DEN or bothering with building a club in A at this point. Now a club in the Jeppessen Terminal before security or even one in the Westin? That could be an interesting option as well.
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:29 pm

N649DL wrote:
Now a club in the Jeppessen Terminal before security or even one in the Westin? That could be an interesting option as well.

It would be ***interesting*** but not practical. Frequent flyers know exactly how many minutes it takes to get from any club to any gate. Placing the variables of security lines in the middle of the trek would be a non-starter.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:43 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
diatraveler wrote:
The Denver Business Journal (in a premium content article) this morning is reporting that DIA and United have reached an agreement that will grant United 24 of the 39 new gates along with support space being constructed as part of the gate expansion project at DIA. The contract goes to a committee of the city council next week.

It does not say which new gates will be United's but we know that 11 are being constructed on concourse B and 12 are being constructed on concourse A, which will have international capability. I wonder if a Polaris Lounge will be forth coming fro United on concourse A.

Looks like United will be expanding Denver even more than anticipated.


None of the gates on B are "new". So I don't know if those will be included in that 24. United has 68 gates on B before construction, and will have 68 gates after. I have heard we are trying to get gates on A and C.

Construction on a new North Regional Aircraft concourse mirroring B80-B95 is already under construction. I saw it this week. They are also adding 4 gates at the west end of B, but that construction has not started yet.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:01 am

cosyr wrote:
Construction on a new North Regional Aircraft concourse mirroring B80-B95 is already under construction. I saw it this week. They are also adding 4 gates at the west end of B, but that construction has not started yet.


Huh? There's already construction well underway at the west end of B. Indeed, it appeared to me last week that the steel framing was already complete.

Or are you referring to another 4?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:06 am

FlyHossD wrote:
cosyr wrote:
Construction on a new North Regional Aircraft concourse mirroring B80-B95 is already under construction. I saw it this week. They are also adding 4 gates at the west end of B, but that construction has not started yet.


Huh? There's already construction well underway at the west end of B. Indeed, it appeared to me last week that the steel framing was already complete.

Or are you referring to another 4?

No, those are the 4 I was referring to. I didn't see that construction, but we landed on 26 and took off on 8, so we didn't taxi by that end. Pretty ambitious that they are working on construction on A, B, C and the main terminal simultaneously.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:28 am

jayunited wrote:
...Another thing no one is talking about is IAD is now UA second most profitable hub right behind DEN. At one point MWAA thought their CPE would exceed $31 dollars, but some how they have gotten their cost under control and today their CPE is under $17 dollars. If MWAA can keep their CPE cost under control I can see UA hitting 450 daily departures in 2 or perhaps 3 years.


Please correct me if my memory is flawed, but weren't DEN and IAD the two hubs the two consultant groups (hired by Smisek) recommended closing?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:33 am

cosyr wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
cosyr wrote:
Construction on a new North Regional Aircraft concourse mirroring B80-B95 is already under construction. I saw it this week. They are also adding 4 gates at the west end of B, but that construction has not started yet.


Huh? There's already construction well underway at the west end of B. Indeed, it appeared to me last week that the steel framing was already complete.

Or are you referring to another 4?

No, those are the 4 I was referring to. I didn't see that construction, but we landed on 26 and took off on 8, so we didn't taxi by that end. Pretty ambitious that they are working on construction on A, B, C and the main terminal simultaneously.


An unofficial source told me that he believed the new west end B gates were ahead of schedule as some of the construction resources, including engineers, from the stalled "Great Hall Project" had been reassigned to the new gates work on B. Like I said, that's unofficial, but it did come from someone who works at DEN.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:38 am

FlyHossD wrote:
Please correct me if my memory is flawed, but weren't DEN and IAD the two hubs the two consultant groups (hired by Smisek) recommended closing?

There’s never been a credible public comment about potentially closing DEN or IAD.
 
FSDan
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:41 am

FlyHossD wrote:
jayunited wrote:
...Another thing no one is talking about is IAD is now UA second most profitable hub right behind DEN. At one point MWAA thought their CPE would exceed $31 dollars, but some how they have gotten their cost under control and today their CPE is under $17 dollars. If MWAA can keep their CPE cost under control I can see UA hitting 450 daily departures in 2 or perhaps 3 years.


Please correct me if my memory is flawed, but weren't DEN and IAD the two hubs the two consultant groups (hired by Smisek) recommended closing?


I don't know who suggested what, but DEN and IAD certainly didn't thrive under Smisek (and obviously CLE and to some degree LAX as well).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:18 am

I would recommend directing some of this DEN discussion to the Denver Aviation Thread. While it is generally applicable here, it might be better suited to the Denver Thread since much of the discussion more specifically relates to the airport rather than United's network. I'm not planning on removing any comments about it here for being off topic or anything, it's merely a suggestion.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
maximairways
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:28 am

With UA adding BTV-DEN, SYR-DEN, and going 2x on BDL-DEN this summer, BUF&ROC-DEN seem like a natural fit.
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:41 am

adamblang wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
Please correct me if my memory is flawed, but weren't DEN and IAD the two hubs the two consultant groups (hired by Smisek) recommended closing?

There’s never been a credible public comment about potentially closing DEN or IAD.

Correct.

But there was an outside analyst that publicly floated the concept. (I can't remember if it was a research note or a question during an investor call.)

Needless to say, there was a better idea out there.
 
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drerx7
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:52 am

Denver economy wasn't flourishing during the Smisek era either though.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:52 am

cosyr wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
diatraveler wrote:
The Denver Business Journal (in a premium content article) this morning is reporting that DIA and United have reached an agreement that will grant United 24 of the 39 new gates along with support space being constructed as part of the gate expansion project at DIA. The contract goes to a committee of the city council next week.

It does not say which new gates will be United's but we know that 11 are being constructed on concourse B and 12 are being constructed on concourse A, which will have international capability. I wonder if a Polaris Lounge will be forth coming fro United on concourse A.

Looks like United will be expanding Denver even more than anticipated.


None of the gates on B are "new". So I don't know if those will be included in that 24. United has 68 gates on B before construction, and will have 68 gates after. I have heard we are trying to get gates on A and C.

Construction on a new North Regional Aircraft concourse mirroring B80-B95 is already under construction. I saw it this week. They are also adding 4 gates at the west end of B, but that construction has not started yet.


Those will be mainline capable gates. There will be handful of E175 gates, but their primary purpose is to handle narrowbodys.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:54 am

Of the 40 something used A320/319 and 73G's UA has coming, will all be delivered and in service this year? Even without the MAX's back in service, that could lead to a substantial bump in capacity by the end of 2020. Add the MAX by the 2nd half of the year (hopefully) and it could be more than double.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:30 am

319:
N801UA sked to exit LCQ 2755/4Jan with 12F config

763:
N651UA entered ILN maint 2747/2Jan

772:
N37018 sked to exit HKG 862/6Jan with Polaris/PP
N74007 appears to be entering HKG 179/4Jan, expect Polaris/PP
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:48 pm

Rhapsody in Blue is now in the public domain. I wonder whether this will impact how UA uses it. I was under the impression that they somehow had exclusive TV rights to it for some time.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... ion-anyone
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:04 pm

cosyr wrote:
Of the 40 something used A320/319 and 73G's UA has coming, will all be delivered and in service this year? Even without the MAX's back in service, that could lead to a substantial bump in capacity by the end of 2020. Add the MAX by the 2nd half of the year (hopefully) and it could be more than double.


As a passenger, it'd sure be nice if some of these added narrowbodies could allow for some additional 76-seat frames and in turn eliminate some CR2/E145s from the system.
 
airplanedriver6
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:05 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
As a passenger, it'd sure be nice if some of these added narrowbodies could allow for some additional 76-seat frames and in turn eliminate some CR2/E145s from the system.

Nothing like that will happen in the near term.

UAL, unlike DAL, has not elected to buy small mainline airplanes like the A220 or E195 that would "unlock" additional 76-seat airplanes in the scope* section of the pilot contract. In the short term, UAL is apparently happy with transitioning all the 70-76 seat airplanes to E-jets (a win for passengers) and converting the displaced 70-seat CRJ700s into 50-seat CRJ550s (also a win for passengers.)

Negotiations on a new pilot contract are ongoing. We'll see.....

(*For those new to the industry in the U.S.A. or airliners.net, "scope" literally refers to the scope of the contract and defines all flying performed by the pilots union. For decades the mainline pilots flew ALL revenue operations but then "express" flying started with a small carve-out that has since grown with time.)
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:20 pm

unitedewr737 wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
There are more interesting tidbits from the Scott Kirby notes at Airline Pilot Central Forums: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/126073-scott-kirby-sfo-notes.html

Returning to OAK, most likely from DEN
Not planning to go back into JFK due to no gates and space. Planning to add flights into OAK maybe next year.


IAD to 450 flights
IAD is now the 2nd most profitable hub. Planning to grow major there. Currently @270 dep a day, planned to go to 450+ dep a day with 7 banks. Because of this planning a major upgrade to terminal and facilities now. Said he is very excited about the potential at IAD due to it not being gate and space limited.


IAH to ~600-700
Growing IAH this year, going from 600-700 flights this year. Houston is dependent on Latin America. Their economies have been down but coming back. We’re largest carrier into MEX.


And Kirby hinted elsewhere at DEN going to between 500 and 700 flights!
https://skift.com/2019/09/12/united-airlines-plays-up-its-denver-advantage-as-global-routes-suffer/
United may grow more in Denver, Kirby said, though the airline has not yet decided how much. He suggested it could be between about 500 daily flights and 720. Delta operates the largest U.S. airline hub in Atlanta, with more than 1,000 departures.


Where are all these flights going to come from if the MAX grounding doesn't end soon?
I know most of these are regional but really aggressive stance everywhere.


Something else in there seemed really interesting. He said something like planes they plan on keeping for the next 4.5+ years will get a cabin refresh over the next “several years.” Could this mean the 737 fleet will be fully updated to the new first class seats?


The interiors of the current 737-8 & 9 have been such a pet peeve of mine for so long!

It was about a year ago when I had a RT ticket from EWR to MIA and back to EWR. I was super lucky to get a fresh, newly refurbished Ex CZ A319 on the outbound in First Class. I was flabbergasted at how the brand new “Factory Fresh” (used) A319 looked, felt and smelled. NO REGULAR PASSENGER (who was not a “wing nut” like me) would have thought anything else other than “This is a Brand New and very attractive” airplane. United cut no corners that I could find. The “brand feel” I took away was “crisp, tailored, attractive and clearly branded United”. My return flight to EWR was in First Class also, but a 737-800. OMG WHAT A SHOCKINGLY INFERIOR AIRCRAFT! The 738 was very clean, but it was ordinary (almost unattractive) boring and old style generic 737. The First Class seat was (and still are) uncomfortable, the seat back is HARD, the headrest doesn’t stay in place (if flops right back down the moment you rest your head on it. And you face forward looking at a plain blue-grey bulkhead with aluminum bits showing, sagging old leather magazine pockets on the bulk heads, and a lavatory that looks like a 707. THE ONLY BRIGHT SPOT were great FA’s, friendly and very attentive.
This single comparison made 3 days apart, was as if I flew a really nice airline down to Miami and a generic charter on the way back. (The 737-9 is less bad given the better F seat and Sky ceiling- although the F cabin doesn’t have the “Boeing Sky interior”, because “something” functional” is up in the ceiling, leaving 2 fluorescent strips only.

IF what Kirby said is actually true, it would be an extremely wise move (albeit expensive). With 141 738’s and 148 739’s (289 units total) that equals “millions” of passengers a year, a probably over a hundred thousand in First Class a year- and that simply flies in the face (no pun intended) of their stated goal of “The airline people want to fly” - make no mistake; a beautifully designed and new looking branded interiors “IS” the brand, and also a form of advertising!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
jayunited
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:47 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
jayunited wrote:
...Another thing no one is talking about is IAD is now UA second most profitable hub right behind DEN. At one point MWAA thought their CPE would exceed $31 dollars, but some how they have gotten their cost under control and today their CPE is under $17 dollars. If MWAA can keep their CPE cost under control I can see UA hitting 450 daily departures in 2 or perhaps 3 years.


Please correct me if my memory is flawed, but weren't DEN and IAD the two hubs the two consultant groups (hired by Smisek) recommended closing?


Wall Street recommended closing (de-hubbing) IAD, LAX and to a certain extent DEN. Wall Street analyst thought EWR and ORD could cover the traffic at CLE and IAD, while SFO could takeover for LAX. As far as DEN was concerned Wall Street thought UA would never be able to compete against WN because wN had become to strong at DEN.

Here we are a few years later and DEN is UA's most profitable domestic hub and UA has grown DEN by over 200+ flights. IAD has gone from a money looser to UA second most profitable hub and we haven't even begun growing IAD in earnest. UA has stabilized LAX but can't do must do much growth for now because we don't have any available gates.

Imagine what UA would look like today if Wall Street analyst would have had their way, there would be large gaps in UA's domesict network from the Northeast to IAH, (North) from ORD to SFO, and (South) from IAH to SFO. Those are major gaps that would have put UA into a serious disadvantage against WN, AA, and DL.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:15 pm

jayunited wrote:

Here we are a few years later and DEN is UA's most profitable domestic hub and UA has grown DEN by over 200+ flights. IAD has gone from a money looser to UA second most profitable hub and we haven't even begun growing IAD in earnest. UA has stabilized LAX but can't do must do much growth for now because we don't have any available gates.


It's actually looking very good for UA down the road. Their (reported) two most profitable hubs are also the hubs with the most expansion potential.

Regarding LAX, for the O&D customer, T9 will be one of the biggest game-changers for the airport and UA in decades. Since a very high percentage of LAX passengers choose to arrive via ground vehicle, being able to avoid the horseshoe nightmare that exists today should put UA in a very good position compared to the competitors in terminals west of Sepulveda Blvd.
 
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STT757
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:38 pm

More on United’s growth at Denver, 24 additional gates (A and B concourse) plus expansions to both United Clubs on the B concourse. Also a new United club on concourse A, no Polaris lounge though.


https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... enver-hub/
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:50 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
jayunited wrote:
...Another thing no one is talking about is IAD is now UA second most profitable hub right behind DEN. At one point MWAA thought their CPE would exceed $31 dollars, but some how they have gotten their cost under control and today their CPE is under $17 dollars. If MWAA can keep their CPE cost under control I can see UA hitting 450 daily departures in 2 or perhaps 3 years.


Please correct me if my memory is flawed, but weren't DEN and IAD the two hubs the two consultant groups (hired by Smisek) recommended closing?


Not to defend Smisek, but I think that was posturing that worked out remarkably well and are a big part of the reasons DEN and IAD are experiencing a resurgence from United.

Shortly after those recommendations started floating around about Denver and IAD United struck huge deals with Denver and the State of Virginia to reduce costs at both airports. In 2012 they struck a deal with the City of Denver that reduced their lease payments by $22 million per year! That is huge, and it was done under objection from F9 and WN.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news ... lines.html

United’s growth at Denver since then proves it was a good deal for United, the City of Denver and airport passengers.

Similarly the State of a Virginia got very aggressive at reducing the CPE at IAD, they paid $50 million over two years to reduce IAD’s costs. Plus they got the MWAA to change debt servicing formulas so that costs could be shared with DCA.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... utType=amp

Both deals led UA to sign a new long term lease.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
unitedchicago
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:47 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Regarding LAX, for the O&D customer, T9 will be one of the biggest game-changers for the airport and UA in decades.


heard from a Global Services rep at LAX that they've already broken ground on T9. Can anyone confirm? Thanks!
 
The777Man
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:52 pm

unitedchicago wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
jayunited wrote:
Regarding LAX, for the O&D customer, T9 will be one of the biggest game-changers for the airport and UA in decades.


heard from a Global Services rep at LAX that they've already broken ground on T9. Can anyone confirm? Thanks!


That is NOT true. They have broken ground on the new United hangar.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
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WALmsp
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:43 pm

The777Man wrote:
unitedchicago wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:


heard from a Global Services rep at LAX that they've already broken ground on T9. Can anyone confirm? Thanks!


That is NOT true. They have broken ground on the new United hangar.

The777Man


And they are still in the process of demolishing the old WA/DL facilities on that site
In memory of my Dad, Robert "Bob" Fenrich, WAL 1964-1979, MSP ONT LAX
 
xxcr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:00 pm

FSDan wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
jayunited wrote:
...Another thing no one is talking about is IAD is now UA second most profitable hub right behind DEN. At one point MWAA thought their CPE would exceed $31 dollars, but some how they have gotten their cost under control and today their CPE is under $17 dollars. If MWAA can keep their CPE cost under control I can see UA hitting 450 daily departures in 2 or perhaps 3 years.


Please correct me if my memory is flawed, but weren't DEN and IAD the two hubs the two consultant groups (hired by Smisek) recommended closing?


I don't know who suggested what, but DEN and IAD certainly didn't thrive under Smisek (and obviously CLE and to some degree LAX as well).


Smisek was an idiot IMO!!! did nothing for UA after the merger. It would have been a huge mistake if he wanted to dehub DEN and IAD........ both are extremely important to the UA network.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:21 pm

Future Denver:
Image
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:38 pm

Some analysts definitely went ahead and called for IAD to be dehubbed and LAX scaled back significantly. I don't think anyone ever explicitly said that UA should dehub DEN. DEN was definitely overlooked from bankruptcy through the merger and Smisek era, but I don't think it was ever a serious consideration to shutter DEN altogether.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
klwright69
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:26 pm

intotheair beat me too it. I clearly remember analysts suggesting UA dump IAD and LAX as meaningful hubs. LAX due to heightened competition from DL, AA, and WN; and IAD due to passenger preference for DCA. And of course, IAD and LAX, had better hubs nearby in SFO and EWR. These analysts actually got quite a bit of press too.
 
avtcle
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:14 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
There are more interesting tidbits from the Scott Kirby notes at Airline Pilot Central Forums: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/126073-scott-kirby-sfo-notes.html

Returning to OAK, most likely from DEN
Not planning to go back into JFK due to no gates and space. Planning to add flights into OAK maybe next year.


IAD to 450 flights
IAD is now the 2nd most profitable hub. Planning to grow major there. Currently @270 dep a day, planned to go to 450+ dep a day with 7 banks. Because of this planning a major upgrade to terminal and facilities now. Said he is very excited about the potential at IAD due to it not being gate and space limited.


IAH to ~600-700
Growing IAH this year, going from 600-700 flights this year. Houston is dependent on Latin America. Their economies have been down but coming back. We’re largest carrier into MEX.


And Kirby hinted elsewhere at DEN going to between 500 and 700 flights!
https://skift.com/2019/09/12/united-airlines-plays-up-its-denver-advantage-as-global-routes-suffer/
United may grow more in Denver, Kirby said, though the airline has not yet decided how much. He suggested it could be between about 500 daily flights and 720. Delta operates the largest U.S. airline hub in Atlanta, with more than 1,000 departures.


Where are all these flights going to come from if the MAX grounding doesn't end soon?
I know most of these are regional but really aggressive stance everywhere.


CLE will only fly to and from a hub. It’s not going to be a base again.


What do they plan to do with the DCA & LGA slots?


I don’t think United was indicating that they were exiting all non-hub routes from CLE. That would mean they would be cutting CLE-MCO/FLL/TPA/RSW/CHS/LGA/DCA. I think they were indicating not to expect anymore expansion.

United really doesn’t have anything to do with the CLE-LGA/DCA slots (both @ 5x per day) but they certainly won’t give them up. Those a lucrative.
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:42 am

In terms of most profitable, what are UA most to least profitable?

I would have thought SFO and EWR to be very profitable given the amount of international premium seats. But, then I don’t know what the costs are from operating at these airports.

I fly in and out of DEN often (from EWR) as I have a client there. The 2 identical UC - are “FINE” and I can see the spruce ups which work far better than the UC at EWR (spruced up but woefully not enough) so I’m wondering if UA plans to renovate them more fully?

And the Jetson’s style Westin at DEN is really beautiful, but also very expensive!

Also, as hubs go: ORD, EWR, IAD, IAH, LAX, SFO & DEN - most of these are MAJOR US cities and would include (potentially) a lot of premium business travel.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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STT757
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:51 am

avtcle wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
SumChristianus wrote:
There are more interesting tidbits from the Scott Kirby notes at Airline Pilot Central Forums: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/126073-scott-kirby-sfo-notes.html

Returning to OAK, most likely from DEN


IAD to 450 flights


IAH to ~600-700


And Kirby hinted elsewhere at DEN going to between 500 and 700 flights!
https://skift.com/2019/09/12/united-airlines-plays-up-its-denver-advantage-as-global-routes-suffer/


Where are all these flights going to come from if the MAX grounding doesn't end soon?
I know most of these are regional but really aggressive stance everywhere.


CLE will only fly to and from a hub. It’s not going to be a base again.


What do they plan to do with the DCA & LGA slots?


I don’t think United was indicating that they were exiting all non-hub routes from CLE. That would mean they would be cutting CLE-MCO/FLL/TPA/RSW/CHS/LGA/DCA. I think they were indicating not to expect anymore expansion.

United really doesn’t have anything to do with the CLE-LGA/DCA slots (both @ 5x per day) but they certainly won’t give them up. Those a lucrative.


Maybe UA should use the DCA and LGA slots to
launch DCA-LGA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
GmoneyCO
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:34 am

319:
N874UA - Former China Southern B-6021. The FAA registration for the aircraft was completed on 3-January with a temporary certificate for delivery granted the same day. Imagine we will see this aircraft go from from CAN to XMN in the next few days.

738:
N77258 - Confirmed exit from MIA on 30-Dec
 
GmoneyCO
Posts: 163
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:47 am

Future Fleet Additions:
A319:
B-6019 - Looks to have left service with China Southern. Been dormant since early December. Each of the most recent China Southern additions leave service, go dormant for a month for presumably maintenance work, complete a test hop, and then United picks them up about 4-6 weeks after the test hop.
B-6206 - Completed its test hop after maintenance work on 18-Dec. Conceptually UA should take delivery in the next month.
 
Pinto
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:59 am

STT757 wrote:
avtcle wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:



What do they plan to do with the DCA & LGA slots?


I don’t think United was indicating that they were exiting all non-hub routes from CLE. That would mean they would be cutting CLE-MCO/FLL/TPA/RSW/CHS/LGA/DCA. I think they were indicating not to expect anymore expansion.

United really doesn’t have anything to do with the CLE-LGA/DCA slots (both @ 5x per day) but they certainly won’t give them up. Those a lucrative.


Maybe UA should use the DCA and LGA slots to
launch DCA-LGA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Won't happen because that would hurt DCA-EWR
 
UAinAUS
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:21 am

UAX Update:

E75SC:
N618UX enters revenue service with ExpressJet 6Jan

CR2:
N221PS entered ROS for new livery paint prior to entering service
N924SW has returned to revenue service with Skywest after having been stored
N679SA has returned to revenue service with Skywest after having been stored

CR7:
N174GJ exited service, ferried to AMA for new livery paint prior to CR5 mod, will be future N553GJ

CR5:
N175GJ has exited AMA paint, now at STL awaiting service entry as N554GJ
 
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:20 pm

STT757 wrote:
Maybe UA should use the DCA and LGA slots to launch DCA-LGA.

That would very quickly become United's most delayed flight!
 
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STT757
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:24 pm

Pinto wrote:
STT757 wrote:
avtcle wrote:

I don’t think United was indicating that they were exiting all non-hub routes from CLE. That would mean they would be cutting CLE-MCO/FLL/TPA/RSW/CHS/LGA/DCA. I think they were indicating not to expect anymore expansion.

United really doesn’t have anything to do with the CLE-LGA/DCA slots (both @ 5x per day) but they certainly won’t give them up. Those a lucrative.


Maybe UA should use the DCA and LGA slots to
launch DCA-LGA.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Won't happen because that would hurt DCA-EWR


It looks like DCA-CLE may be going away, replaced by additional DCA-EWR flights.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... spurt/amp/

UA currently has 8 daily DCA-EWR and 5 daily DCA-CLE. They expanding DCA-EWR to 13 daily, so there goes the 5 daily DCA-CLE.

What will they do with the LGA-CLE slots, perhaps expand LGA-IAD from 4 to 9 daily? Or maybe LGA-IAD 7 daily and put the other frequencies into ORD, DEN or IAH?



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CALTECH
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Re: Does UA still operate the 737-900 ?

Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:24 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
CONTACREW wrote:
Max Q wrote:
Continental took delivery of a small number of 737-924 Non-Er airframes. Some numbers...

They were known for their performance limitations

Are these still in the United fleet and operational ?


Yes they are still in the fleet and operational.

And still have the same performance limitations.
,

Yup, 737-900 was a stretch of the -800 with no increase in gross weight. The -900ER was a stretched -800 on steroids, compared to the -900. # 412 was in MCO with a pretty new glossy paint job.

UAL..................................................................................UAL.....................................UAL
Boeing 737-900ER...........................versus.....................Boeing 737-900...................Boeing 737-800
42.10 m.........138 ft 1 in....................length......................42.10 m........138 ft 1 in
35.80 m.........117 ft 5 in....................wingspan.................35.80 m........117 ft 5 in
125.00 m2.....1,345 ft2......................wing area................125.00 m2....1,345 ft2
12.50 m.........41 ft.............................height......................12.50 m........41 ft
2........................................................engines....................2
126 kN...........28,400 lbf....................thrust per engine.....121 kN..........27,300 lbf
252 kN...........56,800 lbf....................total thrust...............242 kN..........54,600 lbf
85,130 kgs....187,700 lbs..................MTOW....................79,000 kgs....174,200 lbs ....(UAL 737-800 174,200)
5,990 km.......3,235 nm.....................range.......................5,084 km.......2,745 nm
M0.791.............................................cruise speed............M0.785
UAL 179...........................................capacity....................UAL 179 ...............................(UAL 737-800 166 )

"Major changes from the 737-900 include:

additional Type 2 exit doors (60 x 131 cm) behind the wings to bring certified passenger capacity to 215;
Flat aft pressure bulkhead to enable cabin revisions for 26 additional passengers. The new bulkhead is 180 kg heavier than the traditional domed one;
leading and trailing edge flap revisions;
strengthened fuselage, wing box and center section;
strengthened landing gear and supports, increased capacity wheels and brakes;
dual position tailskid;
option for two auxiliary fuel tanks in the cargo hold;"

"Boeing claims 98 per cent spares commonality by investment with other members of the 737NG family.
At the time of the launch, Boeing declared that the 737-900ER has 9 per cent lower operating costs per trip and 7 per cent lower operating costs per seat than the comparable A321 model, which is more than 4500 kg heavier.

Other benefits

Carries 26 more passengers than the 737-900, up to 215 passengers in a single-class configuration
Weighs more than 10,000 pounds (4,536 kgs) less than the A321.
Has lower operating costs than the A321; about 9 percent lower per trip, and 7 percent lower per seat;
Flies about 500 nautical miles farther, up to 3,200 nm (5,925 km);"
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CALTECH
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:41 pm

cosyr wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Anyone know how many Maxes UA was supposed to have by now? Will they be delivered in 1 swoop once the grounding is over?


30........

And how many are they supposed to receive in the first half and second half of 2020?


Right now subject to change, there are 11 737-MAX8s scheduled for delivery in 2020, and looks like at least 1 -MX9 and 2 -MAX10s are up for delivery in 2020. Politics now involved in 737-MAX RTS.....
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