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Kilgen
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:56 am

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:38 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
While some may say UA wants to make EWR more O&D, this trend has seemed to be more about the regional flying rather than the mainline connections. I have gathered this data both from personal experience and the passenger statistics released from the airport. Could Kirby (a genius) possibly be suggesting the carriers shift to EWR to better benefit from the joint venture? UA could than the receive slots the others vacated and return to the highly desired JFK market all while capitalizing with more connections. UA themselves have stated that their biggest problem with a return to JFK is the lack of a bunch of slots at once.


I doubt CM will shift to EWR, as they already have a codeshare with UA on the PTY-EWR flight. Also, CM has not flown to any of the old CO hubs from PTY as those flights are done by UA in their current codeshare agreement (i.e. EWR or IAH).
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:41 pm

boacboac wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

28, not 20.


Right, sorry about the typo. Either way, that's a big difference vs. 48/50on the 772.


Do you know the seating config of the cabins on the 787-8 with Polaris ?

28J 21PP 36Y+ 158Y
 
N649DL
Posts: 1005
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:19 pm

tphuang wrote:
EWR is not one of UA's most profitable hubs, but it might be its most important. Amongst the legacies, UA is easily the most profitable in NYC. And its market dominance allows UA to capture ff, corporate contract that help the rest of its network. Kirby would argue that some type of presence in JFK would further aid its presence in NYC and nationwide. And I'd agree with that. It makes no sense for UA to not maintain its position in EWR.

Also, UA partners don't have enough well timed slots at JFK to be worthwhile for UA.


I was always under the impression that EWR was always profitable for UA and CO, JFK was not (but UA shrunk it's operation down during BK at Kennedy, also a factor) but I'm willing to be they are not the most profitable carrier in the NYC area. Ever since EWR got rid of it's slots and UA couldn't squat on them, the LCC's came in have somewhat eroded their domestic market share. Not a ton, but UA has lost market share at EWR as a result over the last few years.
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:24 pm

Why did United completely drop JFK? Why did they not keep the valuable slots by flying small planes hub-to-JFK with their ex-P.S. flights?

That seems like madness to me.
 
xxcr
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:32 pm

jayunited wrote:
aden23 wrote:
N14011 (787-10) passed through DEN just now on its first day of revenue flights.

Perplexingly, this iteration is missing 21 premium seats compared to other United 787-10’s. 44 J seats, but it’s missing the Premium Plus section, and replaced it with more economy plus.

Anyone care to speculate why this would be the case? Premium Plus is being added to 787-8‘s, so seems quite strange to eliminate those excellent intermediary seats just to include a few more E+ chairs.

Thoughts?


Except for our EWR-SFO/LAX routes UA does not sell premium plus seats as premium plus seats on domestic routes, those seats are marketed and sold domestically as E+. For passengers who are not familiar with UA widebodies they will not find out they are actually in a premium plus seat until they board the aircraft.



UA now sells all 3 classes on the SFO/LAX-EWR. Business, premium plus and economy.
 
Northpole
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:55 pm

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:34 pm

At least United ( Continental?) managed to get SAS to shift from JFK to EWR
EWR is Jersey :)
 
xxcr
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: Theory; United Road to Redemption, via a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:36 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
That’s more Smiseks line of thinking. It was he who sold off JFK slots and the airline later admitted it was a mistake.



Nothing Smisek did made sense!!!!! Selling the JFK slots was a huge mistake!!! i must admit though, flying into EWR is much nicer and easier than JFK.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:43 pm

xxcr wrote:
jayunited wrote:
aden23 wrote:
N14011 (787-10) passed through DEN just now on its first day of revenue flights.

Perplexingly, this iteration is missing 21 premium seats compared to other United 787-10’s. 44 J seats, but it’s missing the Premium Plus section, and replaced it with more economy plus.

Anyone care to speculate why this would be the case? Premium Plus is being added to 787-8‘s, so seems quite strange to eliminate those excellent intermediary seats just to include a few more E+ chairs.

Thoughts?


Except for our EWR-SFO/LAX routes UA does not sell premium plus seats as premium plus seats on domestic routes, those seats are marketed and sold domestically as E+. For passengers who are not familiar with UA widebodies they will not find out they are actually in a premium plus seat until they board the aircraft.



UA now sells all 3 classes on the SFO/LAX-EWR. Business, premium plus and economy.


He did acknowledge that right at the beginning of his post ;)
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
xxcr
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:45 pm

FSDan wrote:
xxcr wrote:
jayunited wrote:

Except for our EWR-SFO/LAX routes UA does not sell premium plus seats as premium plus seats on domestic routes, those seats are marketed and sold domestically as E+. For passengers who are not familiar with UA widebodies they will not find out they are actually in a premium plus seat until they board the aircraft.



UA now sells all 3 classes on the SFO/LAX-EWR. Business, premium plus and economy.


He did acknowledge that right at the beginning of his post ;)


lol, i was quoting the 2nd post.
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4343
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:08 pm

If United was truly itching to get back into JFK they would do it. Money talks and they could scrounge up a dozen slots in the times they would need. I took Kirby's comments regarding regretting pulling out as "it would be nice if the opportunity presented itself, but we aren't actively shopping". Kind of like we all do when there's something we want to buy but don't need right away. Some day you'll walk into the store and it will be half price and you'll decide to do it.
 
Bhoy
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:26 pm

Northpole wrote:
At least United ( Continental?) managed to get SAS to shift from JFK to EWR
EWR is Jersey :)

I flew EWR-LHR in BA in ‘97, and the gate beside mine was an SK flight to CPH. So SK were flying to EWR long before CO joined Star, and while UA was operating to both EWR/JFK?
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:37 pm

Bhoy wrote:
Northpole wrote:
At least United ( Continental?) managed to get SAS to shift from JFK to EWR
EWR is Jersey :)

I flew EWR-LHR in BA in ‘97, and the gate beside mine was an SK flight to CPH. So SK were flying to EWR long before CO joined Star, and while UA was operating to both EWR/JFK?


Yeah, SK has been a long-time EWR resident
 
snuggs28
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:29 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:53 pm

jayunited wrote:
snuggs28 wrote:
N210UA in AMA for Paint. 777-200 prototype.

The former Shaheen Aircraft are not being stripped for parts. First one is suppose to get inducted this month. The ex Vueling A320's are suppose to be used for Parts. But then the 1st one was rerouted. So who knows.....


You absolutely correct the N2910U was supposed to end up in TUP and be stripped now UA is showing this aircraft's location at GRY.

I would have never looked if you would have never posted this, I would have gone on assumed the plane was in TUP. I was about to try to correct you but something told me to do some research before posting and to my surprise the plane wasn't in TUP.

Now I really can't wait to see the updated fleet plan because UA has a few more used Airbuses at GYR but they are just being stored there temporarily while their maintenance records continue to be poured over. The fact that N2910U was rerouted to GYR is an interested development it could still be parted out but like you stated who knows.


I think its because of the Max Delays. We were suppose to start training 80 Crews a month on the 737. But once again that has been delayed. I think we need the lift. And if that's the case. Why did we retire 2 320 's Last year. I mean we just had another PW757 go thru a C check.....
 
kiowa
Posts: 779
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Theory; United Road to Redemption, via a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:25 pm

xxcr wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
That’s more Smiseks line of thinking. It was he who sold off JFK slots and the airline later admitted it was a mistake.



Nothing Smisek did made sense!!!!! Selling the JFK slots was a huge mistake!!! i must admit though, flying into EWR is much nicer and easier than JFK.


It made sense to him and he left a wealthy man and managed to avoid jail so far. I also doubt anything could damage his ego.
 
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airzim
Posts: 1454
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:40 am

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:48 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
Northpole wrote:
At least United ( Continental?) managed to get SAS to shift from JFK to EWR
EWR is Jersey :)

I flew EWR-LHR in BA in ‘97, and the gate beside mine was an SK flight to CPH. So SK were flying to EWR long before CO joined Star, and while UA was operating to both EWR/JFK?


Yeah, SK has been a long-time EWR resident


SAS actually took at equity stake in CO in the late 80s (IIRC). Hence their move from JFK to EWR in order to benefit from the CO feed. Although I believe they always operated out of Term B, and never co-located with CO.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:07 pm

UAX Update:

E75SC:
N619UX entered revenue service with ExpressJet 6Jan

CR7:
N166GJ exited service as CR7. At STL awaiting CR5 mod. Will be future N542GJ

CR5:
N160GJ has been re-registered as N533GJ. At STL awaiting service entry
N175GJ has been re-registered as N554GJ. Awaiting service entry.
N608QX ferried MLB for interior mod
 
TrafficCop
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:00 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:48 pm

PA815 wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
that's a big difference vs. 48/50on the 772.

Wouldn’t they only be swapped with the non-reconfigured 787-8s? Still a drop of 8 J seats, though the premium economy seats would soften the blow a bit. Either way, I wonder when they’ll start capping J sales to 28.


The cap is already in place. Checked a few routes and 8 seats being held in Polaris. This of course will be good for last minute upgrades or non revs when seats released. Just like the 767 high J. Once all are finished though back to normal.
 
jayunited
Posts: 3031
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:31 pm

N649DL wrote:
tphuang wrote:
EWR is not one of UA's most profitable hubs, but it might be its most important. Amongst the legacies, UA is easily the most profitable in NYC. And its market dominance allows UA to capture ff, corporate contract that help the rest of its network. Kirby would argue that some type of presence in JFK would further aid its presence in NYC and nationwide. And I'd agree with that. It makes no sense for UA to not maintain its position in EWR.

Also, UA partners don't have enough well timed slots at JFK to be worthwhile for UA.


I was always under the impression that EWR was always profitable for UA and CO, JFK was not (but UA shrunk it's operation down during BK at Kennedy, also a factor) but I'm willing to be they are not the most profitable carrier in the NYC area. Ever since EWR got rid of it's slots and UA couldn't squat on them, the LCC's came in have somewhat eroded their domestic market share. Not a ton, but UA has lost market share at EWR as a result over the last few years.


N649DL I think you misinterpreted what tphuang wrote.

What was actually written was EWR is not one of UA's most profitable hubs. The 2 most profitable hubs now according to Kirby are DEN and IAD for a number of reasons not withstanding the lower operating cost at those hubs. Having said that EWR is still a profitable hub for UA, and from the last update we got from Munoz and Kirby (which was last year) according to them UA at EWR was more profitable than any of the major U.S. carriers at JFK.
 
N649DL
Posts: 1005
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:33 pm

jayunited wrote:
N649DL wrote:
tphuang wrote:
EWR is not one of UA's most profitable hubs, but it might be its most important. Amongst the legacies, UA is easily the most profitable in NYC. And its market dominance allows UA to capture ff, corporate contract that help the rest of its network. Kirby would argue that some type of presence in JFK would further aid its presence in NYC and nationwide. And I'd agree with that. It makes no sense for UA to not maintain its position in EWR.

Also, UA partners don't have enough well timed slots at JFK to be worthwhile for UA.


I was always under the impression that EWR was always profitable for UA and CO, JFK was not (but UA shrunk it's operation down during BK at Kennedy, also a factor) but I'm willing to be they are not the most profitable carrier in the NYC area. Ever since EWR got rid of it's slots and UA couldn't squat on them, the LCC's came in have somewhat eroded their domestic market share. Not a ton, but UA has lost market share at EWR as a result over the last few years.


N649DL I think you misinterpreted what tphuang wrote.

What was actually written was EWR is not one of UA's most profitable hubs. The 2 most profitable hubs now according to Kirby are DEN and IAD for a number of reasons not withstanding the lower operating cost at those hubs. Having said that EWR is still a profitable hub for UA, and from the last update we got from Munoz and Kirby (which was last year) according to them UA at EWR was more profitable than any of the major U.S. carriers at JFK.


Figures. And Smisek wanted to downsize and/or close both DEN and IAD at one point. I thought SFO was among the most profitable?

Maybe EWR isn't as profitable as DEN and IAD because of the high landing fees IDK?
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 780
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:45 pm

Nope - in the 1990s, for awhile, SK departures definitely occurred in terminal C. I remember seeing their flights there many times during transit at EWR. Not sure when they moved to B for departures, but departures were definitely at C in the 1990s for a time.


airzim wrote:
dmstorm22 wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
I flew EWR-LHR in BA in ‘97, and the gate beside mine was an SK flight to CPH. So SK were flying to EWR long before CO joined Star, and while UA was operating to both EWR/JFK?


Yeah, SK has been a long-time EWR resident


SAS actually took at equity stake in CO in the late 80s (IIRC). Hence their move from JFK to EWR in order to benefit from the CO feed. Although I believe they always operated out of Term B, and never co-located with CO.
 
Northpole
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:55 pm

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:45 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
Northpole wrote:
At least United ( Continental?) managed to get SAS to shift from JFK to EWR
EWR is Jersey :)

I flew EWR-LHR in BA in ‘97, and the gate beside mine was an SK flight to CPH. So SK were flying to EWR long before CO joined Star, and while UA was operating to both EWR/JFK?


Yeah, SK has been a long-time EWR resident


I stand corrected > I wrote United ( Continental ?) .... In 1989 SK bought 18 % of Texas Air Corp > ( Continental ) and started a coop with CO to feed between the USA and STO-CPH-OSL
They started out using their 767:s
As far as I remember they used their 747:s and DC10:s to/from JFK.
 
Runway28L
Posts: 2101
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:53 pm

LGeneReese wrote:
xxcr wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
788:
N26906 sked to enter XMN 2741/9Jan for Polaris/PP (788 #2 for Polaris)


the 1st one should be done any day now. any news on it?

N27908 is currently enroute XMNSFO UA 2738 9Jan and will then turn $ flight UA 1912SFOIAD 8Jan and UA809 IADPEK 9Jan.
.. or so FA says anyway. UA not wasting any time putting it to use it seems.

Looks like its SFO-IAD flight didn’t happen due to a cracked windshield shortly after takeoff.

https://twitter.com/dkully/status/12152 ... 46528?s=21
 
IADCA
Posts: 2194
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:54 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
UA is currently in the process of forming a joint venture throughout South America with Avianca, Azul, and Copa. While the JV should be extremely beneficial on both ends does UA have something more to benefit from it than the others? Combined Avianca and Copa have quite a few slots at JFK but a limited and nonexistent presence at EWR. United, has the opposite, therefore making connections nearly impossible.

While some may say UA wants to make EWR more O&D, this trend has seemed to be more about the regional flying rather than the mainline connections. I have gathered this data both from personal experience and the passenger statistics released from the airport. Could Kirby (a genius) possibly be suggesting the carriers shift to EWR to better benefit from the joint venture? UA could than the receive slots the others vacated and return to the highly desired JFK market all while capitalizing with more connections. UA themselves have stated that their biggest problem with a return to JFK is the lack of a bunch of slots at once.


Why would the partner carriers agree to that? They'd be moving to EWR - an airport they have demonstrated through their behavior to the present is less-preferred - and then functionally giving the slots to UA for free. If they were interested in moving, they could just sell the slots at JFK, presumably for a lot of money. What you propose makes a ton of sense for UA and essentially none for the other carriers.
 
HunterATL
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:55 pm

No airline is going to buy slots at JFK until the fate of the slot order is determined. Why spend large sums of money to acquire slots which could become worthless on October 24, 2020?
 
jayunited
Posts: 3031
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:40 pm

snuggs28 wrote:

I think its because of the Max Delays. We were suppose to start training 80 Crews a month on the 737. But once again that has been delayed. I think we need the lift. And if that's the case. Why did we retire 2 320 's Last year. I mean we just had another PW757 go thru a C check.....


I think you are right and I've said this before I believe United believed every timetable Boeing came out with pertaining to the MAX's return to service. It wasn't until late last year that UA finally opened their eyes to the fact that Boeing has no power or say so over when these aircraft will be returned to service. I do get the sense that UA is frustrated with Boeing, but UA let themselves be deceived (if that is the correct word to use). Now that UA is seeing things more clearly we have taken the MAX off the schedule until June but much to late to save the 2 A320s from retirement.

I'm going to go out on a limb (because I haven't seen the updated fleet plan yet) and say UA will hold off on retiring any more narrowbody aircraft already in service until the MAX is actually flying again.
 
xxcr
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:00 am

Runway28L wrote:
LGeneReese wrote:
xxcr wrote:

the 1st one should be done any day now. any news on it?

N27908 is currently enroute XMNSFO UA 2738 9Jan and will then turn $ flight UA 1912SFOIAD 8Jan and UA809 IADPEK 9Jan.
.. or so FA says anyway. UA not wasting any time putting it to use it seems.

Looks like its SFO-IAD flight didn’t happen due to a cracked windshield shortly after takeoff.

https://twitter.com/dkully/status/12152 ... 46528?s=21



i guess N27908's vacation wasn't long enough!! she'll be out for a few days for a windshield replacement. All those excited people flying IAD-PEK will be disappointed now!....getting stuck with an old plane!
 
alasizon
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:06 am

UAinAUS wrote:
CR7:
N166GJ exited service as CR7. At STL awaiting CR5 mod. Will be future N542GJ

CR5:
N160GJ has been re-registered as N533GJ. At STL awaiting service entry
N175GJ has been re-registered as N554GJ. Awaiting service entry.
N608QX ferried MLB for interior mod


What is the point of re-registering the CR7s to a different tail number once they are converted to a CR5?

VC10er wrote:
If UA is growing so much already and the plan is more growth systemwide- who is UA sourcing share from? Has any kind of report showing that FF pax are switching from DL or AA?
Are foreign travelers choosing UA vs their usual local country airlines?

I suspect some of the growth is coming at the expense of NK and F9 as some customers may now find UA's connection and/or pricing desirable. The rest is likely corporate contracts coming from whomever.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
jayunited
Posts: 3031
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:03 am

N649DL wrote:
Figures. And Smisek wanted to downsize and/or close both DEN and IAD at one point. I thought SFO was among the most profitable?

Maybe EWR isn't as profitable as DEN and IAD because of the high landing fees IDK?


Another issue that has effected EWR's place on the list is the tax hike on jet fuel. I believe it was some time last year where the NJ senate raised taxes on jet fuel purchased at EWR. In the past airlines were only paying taxes on the fuel burned while within NJ airspace. With this new law airlines now have to pay taxes on all fuel purchased at EWR. Also a quick side note originally the NJ senate only wanted this new law to apply to United Airlines because they felt it would negatively impact smaller carriers. However I believe UA filed a complaint with the FAA and this tax increase now applies to all carriers at EWR.

As I said before our executives say EWR is still profitable how it is no longer UA's most profitable hub, it is probably number 3 or 4 on the list of profitability.
 
GmoneyCO
Posts: 166
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:42 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:34 am

snuggs28 wrote:
jayunited wrote:
snuggs28 wrote:
N210UA in AMA for Paint. 777-200 prototype.

The former Shaheen Aircraft are not being stripped for parts. First one is suppose to get inducted this month. The ex Vueling A320's are suppose to be used for Parts. But then the 1st one was rerouted. So who knows.....


You absolutely correct the N2910U was supposed to end up in TUP and be stripped now UA is showing this aircraft's location at GRY.

I would have never looked if you would have never posted this, I would have gone on assumed the plane was in TUP. I was about to try to correct you but something told me to do some research before posting and to my surprise the plane wasn't in TUP.

Now I really can't wait to see the updated fleet plan because UA has a few more used Airbuses at GYR but they are just being stored there temporarily while their maintenance records continue to be poured over. The fact that N2910U was rerouted to GYR is an interested development it could still be parted out but like you stated who knows.


I think its because of the Max Delays. We were suppose to start training 80 Crews a month on the 737. But once again that has been delayed. I think we need the lift. And if that's the case. Why did we retire 2 320 's Last year. I mean we just had another PW757 go thru a C check.....


Do we know if those two 320s have been gutted or parted out yet? If not, I can see them sitting there until a HMV slot opens up and then returning to service. They are not the youngest 320s in the fleet but they are not the oldest either. N835UA was parked at GYR for several months until a HMV slot opened up and believe it is supposed to be back in-service in mid February.
 
rj1385
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 am

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:40 am

I would assume that there is better connections to be had than coming to either EWR or JFK. I would think using IAH and IAD to move connecting traffic through would make more sense in a joint venture. All in JV would capitalize on on O+D coming from NY.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4275
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:01 am

ual763 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
If UA is growing so much already and the plan is more growth systemwide- who is UA sourcing share from? Has any kind of report showing that FF pax are switching from DL or AA?
Are foreign travelers choosing UA vs their usual local country airlines?


I think a big part of it is regaining the corporate partnerships, as this comprises the highest number of FFs. They care primarily about network, reliability, and cost. They frequently switch between airline to airline based on these needs. UA has made great gains in all three and has since gained back a number of corporate contracts that were lost. I don’t have a specific report, as it is mostly proprietary information on both sides. However, UA is poaching corporate partners from other airlines. Of course they also lose some, but the trend is overwhelmingly positive. Expect the trend to continue as United begins to beef up the domestic network. With the economy being so great, there are also a large number of first-time corporate partnerships. Not to mention, a large upswing in non-corporate travelers & FFs as well! It really is a very exciting time throughout the entire industry in terms of growth.


Corporate contracts make a lot of sense. It’s been discussed openly about United becoming the sky warrior’s airline of choice. Global Services was actually, originally created for big global companies so should that company award UA airline of choice the most senior exclusives would get this higher level of service over and above 1k (and it was also a great carrot to waive in front of someone like me to fly United metal and avoid United flights operated by XX, because UA would then get all the revenue. I remember a time when I had to go to Geneva often, all my colleagues would fly nonstop on Swiss, I’d fly UA to FRA and then catch an LH 737 to GVA. I didn’t really appreciate GS until the first time I had a bad IRROPS at GRU, and UA put me on AA in First Class - drove me across the apron from one concourse to another in a ground buggy to get me to the AA 767 before AA closed the door. What a life saver that was.

In marketing, for any kind of brand planning, as part of the brand strategy, the client would often say “the new branding and advertising is meant to source its growth from__________” So studying the primary competition was critical and we would talk to hundreds of consumers to find that “one negative thing” about the competition we could exploit.

So, given DL,AA and WN I would assume UA must have AA in their crosshairs and possibly Delta down the road. But the domestic hole has got to be filled. So I can’t help but think UA is FURIOUS over the MAX!!!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
SFOtoORD
Posts: 1217
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:26 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:19 am

VC10er wrote:
If UA is growing so much already and the plan is more growth systemwide- who is UA sourcing share from? Has any kind of report showing that FF pax are switching from DL or AA?
Are foreign travelers choosing UA vs their usual local country airlines?


The industry as a whole is growing and UA is likely taking an outsized chunk.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193 ... er-demand/
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2497
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:29 am

HunterATL wrote:
No airline is going to buy slots at JFK until the fate of the slot order is determined. Why spend large sums of money to acquire slots which could become worthless on October 24, 2020?


No contract is going to lack a contingency for such an event. The amount would most likely be prorated over a period of time (say 10 years) and UA would pay based on that proration, maybe with a small additional sum.

If an airline wants the slots now, it will buy them.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2967
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:45 am

Kilgen wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
While some may say UA wants to make EWR more O&D, this trend has seemed to be more about the regional flying rather than the mainline connections. I have gathered this data both from personal experience and the passenger statistics released from the airport. Could Kirby (a genius) possibly be suggesting the carriers shift to EWR to better benefit from the joint venture? UA could than the receive slots the others vacated and return to the highly desired JFK market all while capitalizing with more connections. UA themselves have stated that their biggest problem with a return to JFK is the lack of a bunch of slots at once.


I doubt CM will shift to EWR, as they already have a codeshare with UA on the PTY-EWR flight. Also, CM has not flown to any of the old CO hubs from PTY as those flights are done by UA in their current codeshare agreement (i.e. EWR or IAH).
CM will definitely stay in JFK but chances of CM at HOU, since CM codeshares on UA IAH-PTY could be possible.
Re:AV and UA, if AV has code-share on UA EWR-Colombia flights, it won't be flying the same routes UA does between EWR and Colombia.
IMHO, the only reason why UA would want JFK slots might be to offer some daily flights between JFK and its IAD and/or ORD and/or IAH hubs; maybe even a SFO flight, all those timed to connect with as many Star Alliance international flights as possible.
And regarding Houston, there's probably a demand right now for a IAH-JFK (same for a EWR-HOU) 1-2 times per day, depending day of the week.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2630
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Could UA gets JFK slots through a JV?

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:43 am

rj1385 wrote:
I would assume that there is better connections to be had than coming to either EWR or JFK. I would think using IAH and IAD to move connecting traffic through would make more sense in a joint venture. All in JV would capitalize on on O+D coming from NY.


Finally a common sense post. There is no need to use EWR or JFK for connections to South America. It's an illogical connecting point for any destination other than BOS or New England. Copa already flies to IAD, ORD, DEN, LAX, and SFO, and Avianca already flies to IAD and LAX. All of those airports are better connecting points than JFK or EWR.
 
User avatar
CALTECH
Posts: 3428
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:21 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:34 pm

xxcr wrote:
LGeneReese wrote:
xxcr wrote:

the 1st one should be done any day now. any news on it?

N27908 is currently enroute XMNSFO UA 2738 9Jan and will then turn $ flight UA 1912SFOIAD 8Jan and UA809 IADPEK 9Jan.
.. or so FA says anyway. UA not wasting any time putting it to use it seems.


damn! wasting no time!! anyone have pictures of the 788 with Polaris?


787-8 All-Aisle-Access (Polaris) and Premium Economy (PEY)
Modification Differences
Page 1 of 7
United is performing a modification that reconfigures the existing United Airlines 787-8 aircraft from a
2-class configuration with 219 PAX (36 Business / 70 Economy Plus / 113 Economy) to the new All
Aisle Access (AAA) and Premium Economy (PEY) 3-class configuration with 243 PAX (28 Business /
21 Premium Economy / 36 Economy Plus / 158 Economy).
Aircraft 908 is the first aircraft to complete this modification and is scheduled to enter revenue service
in January 2020.
Interior Cabin Differences
 New Polaris Optima Business Class Seats replace previous Diamond seats
 New Premium Economy Cabin with new MiQ seats from Collins Aerospace
 Rework and refresh of the existing Pinnacle Economy Class seats
 New class dividers in Premium Economy and Economy cabins
 New carpet, curtains and branding plaques / panels are installed throughout

Lavatories
 New L1F-1L, L3F-1LC/1RC, L4F-1L/1R lavatories
 Refurbishment of L1A-1R lavatory to match new interior décor

Galleys
 New G1A-1L and G4F-1R galleys
 Refurbishment of G1F-1C, G2F-1C, and G4A-1C galleys to restore and update to match new
interior décor
 New galley floor mats

IFE
 Seat IFE equipment rework
o New EX3 seatback monitors (Economy)
 GCS (Global Communications System) upgrades
o Upgrades allow gate to gate WiFi connectivity
 Graphic User Interface updates
o Updates include new color schemes and Text to Speech capability

The pictures look okay....
You are here.
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 783
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:39 pm

CALTECH wrote:
xxcr wrote:
LGeneReese wrote:
N27908 is currently enroute XMNSFO UA 2738 9Jan and will then turn $ flight UA 1912SFOIAD 8Jan and UA809 IADPEK 9Jan.
.. or so FA says anyway. UA not wasting any time putting it to use it seems.


damn! wasting no time!! anyone have pictures of the 788 with Polaris?


787-8 All-Aisle-Access (Polaris) and Premium Economy (PEY)
Modification Differences
Page 1 of 7
United is performing a modification that reconfigures the existing United Airlines 787-8 aircraft from a
2-class configuration with 219 PAX (36 Business / 70 Economy Plus / 113 Economy) to the new All
Aisle Access (AAA) and Premium Economy (PEY) 3-class configuration with 243 PAX (28 Business /
21 Premium Economy / 36 Economy Plus / 158 Economy).
Aircraft 908 is the first aircraft to complete this modification and is scheduled to enter revenue service
in January 2020.
Interior Cabin Differences
 New Polaris Optima Business Class Seats replace previous Diamond seats
 New Premium Economy Cabin with new MiQ seats from Collins Aerospace
 Rework and refresh of the existing Pinnacle Economy Class seats
 New class dividers in Premium Economy and Economy cabins
 New carpet, curtains and branding plaques / panels are installed throughout

Lavatories
 New L1F-1L, L3F-1LC/1RC, L4F-1L/1R lavatories
 Refurbishment of L1A-1R lavatory to match new interior décor

Galleys
 New G1A-1L and G4F-1R galleys
 Refurbishment of G1F-1C, G2F-1C, and G4A-1C galleys to restore and update to match new
interior décor
 New galley floor mats

IFE
 Seat IFE equipment rework
o New EX3 seatback monitors (Economy)
 GCS (Global Communications System) upgrades
o Upgrades allow gate to gate WiFi connectivity
 Graphic User Interface updates
o Updates include new color schemes and Text to Speech capability

The pictures look okay....

Still no Channel 9 in the 787s?
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1417
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:48 pm

CALTECH wrote:
xxcr wrote:
LGeneReese wrote:
N27908 is currently enroute XMNSFO UA 2738 9Jan and will then turn $ flight UA 1912SFOIAD 8Jan and UA809 IADPEK 9Jan.
.. or so FA says anyway. UA not wasting any time putting it to use it seems.


damn! wasting no time!! anyone have pictures of the 788 with Polaris?


787-8 All-Aisle-Access (Polaris) and Premium Economy (PEY)
Modification Differences
Page 1 of 7
United is performing a modification that reconfigures the existing United Airlines 787-8 aircraft from a
2-class configuration with 219 PAX (36 Business / 70 Economy Plus / 113 Economy) to the new All
Aisle Access (AAA) and Premium Economy (PEY) 3-class configuration with 243 PAX (28 Business /
21 Premium Economy / 36 Economy Plus / 158 Economy).
Aircraft 908 is the first aircraft to complete this modification and is scheduled to enter revenue service
in January 2020.
Interior Cabin Differences
 New Polaris Optima Business Class Seats replace previous Diamond seats
 New Premium Economy Cabin with new MiQ seats from Collins Aerospace
 Rework and refresh of the existing Pinnacle Economy Class seats
 New class dividers in Premium Economy and Economy cabins
 New carpet, curtains and branding plaques / panels are installed throughout

Lavatories
 New L1F-1L, L3F-1LC/1RC, L4F-1L/1R lavatories
 Refurbishment of L1A-1R lavatory to match new interior décor

Galleys
 New G1A-1L and G4F-1R galleys
 Refurbishment of G1F-1C, G2F-1C, and G4A-1C galleys to restore and update to match new
interior décor
 New galley floor mats

IFE
 Seat IFE equipment rework
o New EX3 seatback monitors (Economy)
 GCS (Global Communications System) upgrades
o Upgrades allow gate to gate WiFi connectivity
 Graphic User Interface updates
o Updates include new color schemes and Text to Speech capability

The pictures look okay....


Wow, thanks for that. Much more extensive than expected and explains the longer than expected modification.
 
unitedewr737
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:58 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:03 pm

CALTECH wrote:
xxcr wrote:
LGeneReese wrote:
N27908 is currently enroute XMNSFO UA 2738 9Jan and will then turn $ flight UA 1912SFOIAD 8Jan and UA809 IADPEK 9Jan.
.. or so FA says anyway. UA not wasting any time putting it to use it seems.


damn! wasting no time!! anyone have pictures of the 788 with Polaris?


787-8 All-Aisle-Access (Polaris) and Premium Economy (PEY)
Modification Differences
Page 1 of 7
United is performing a modification that reconfigures the existing United Airlines 787-8 aircraft from a
2-class configuration with 219 PAX (36 Business / 70 Economy Plus / 113 Economy) to the new All
Aisle Access (AAA) and Premium Economy (PEY) 3-class configuration with 243 PAX (28 Business /
21 Premium Economy / 36 Economy Plus / 158 Economy).
Aircraft 908 is the first aircraft to complete this modification and is scheduled to enter revenue service
in January 2020.
Interior Cabin Differences
 New Polaris Optima Business Class Seats replace previous Diamond seats
 New Premium Economy Cabin with new MiQ seats from Collins Aerospace
 Rework and refresh of the existing Pinnacle Economy Class seats
 New class dividers in Premium Economy and Economy cabins
 New carpet, curtains and branding plaques / panels are installed throughout

Lavatories
 New L1F-1L, L3F-1LC/1RC, L4F-1L/1R lavatories
 Refurbishment of L1A-1R lavatory to match new interior décor

Galleys
 New G1A-1L and G4F-1R galleys
 Refurbishment of G1F-1C, G2F-1C, and G4A-1C galleys to restore and update to match new
interior décor
 New galley floor mats

IFE
 Seat IFE equipment rework
o New EX3 seatback monitors (Economy)
 GCS (Global Communications System) upgrades
o Upgrades allow gate to gate WiFi connectivity
 Graphic User Interface updates
o Updates include new color schemes and Text to Speech capability

The pictures look okay....


Thanks for all the info! Any way you could post the pictures? Thanks!
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:19 pm

unitedewr737 wrote:
CALTECH wrote:
xxcr wrote:

damn! wasting no time!! anyone have pictures of the 788 with Polaris?


787-8 All-Aisle-Access (Polaris) and Premium Economy (PEY)
Modification Differences
Page 1 of 7
United is performing a modification that reconfigures the existing United Airlines 787-8 aircraft from a
2-class configuration with 219 PAX (36 Business / 70 Economy Plus / 113 Economy) to the new All
Aisle Access (AAA) and Premium Economy (PEY) 3-class configuration with 243 PAX (28 Business /
21 Premium Economy / 36 Economy Plus / 158 Economy).
Aircraft 908 is the first aircraft to complete this modification and is scheduled to enter revenue service
in January 2020.
Interior Cabin Differences
 New Polaris Optima Business Class Seats replace previous Diamond seats
 New Premium Economy Cabin with new MiQ seats from Collins Aerospace
 Rework and refresh of the existing Pinnacle Economy Class seats
 New class dividers in Premium Economy and Economy cabins
 New carpet, curtains and branding plaques / panels are installed throughout

Lavatories
 New L1F-1L, L3F-1LC/1RC, L4F-1L/1R lavatories
 Refurbishment of L1A-1R lavatory to match new interior décor

Galleys
 New G1A-1L and G4F-1R galleys
 Refurbishment of G1F-1C, G2F-1C, and G4A-1C galleys to restore and update to match new
interior décor
 New galley floor mats

IFE
 Seat IFE equipment rework
o New EX3 seatback monitors (Economy)
 GCS (Global Communications System) upgrades
o Upgrades allow gate to gate WiFi connectivity
 Graphic User Interface updates
o Updates include new color schemes and Text to Speech capability

The pictures look okay....


Thanks for all the info! Any way you could post the pictures? Thanks!

With the windshield replaced the aircraft is now UA35SFOKIX 10JAN.
 
User avatar
adamblang
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:49 pm

The least important thing but I'm glad the bulkheads got replaced.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3234
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:12 pm

77W:

N2534U entered HKG 2734/7Jan for maint
N2135U entered XMN 2749/9Jan for maint
 
TrafficCop
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:00 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:30 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
77W:

N2534U entered HKG 2734/7Jan for maint
N2135U entered XMN 2749/9Jan for maint


Just a question. Is there a chance on the United Fleet Sire on Google to show the date that an aircraft goes in Mod for Polaris?
Would give a general idea when it should exit.

Not that you need the extra work. As always thanks for all the work you do.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 4352
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:51 pm

CALTECH wrote:

Unfortunately the images you posted aren't working, so I'm removing them. I think it's an issue with the image host? This happened a couple of weeks ago as well, but your second attempt worked that time.
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 783
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:14 pm

Looks like UA added SFO/LAX/DEN-SMX and a seasonal MKE-SFO today. Any other new routes around the network?
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
unitedewr737
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:58 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:05 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
CALTECH wrote:

Unfortunately the images you posted aren't working, so I'm removing them. I think it's an issue with the image host? This happened a couple of weeks ago as well, but your second attempt worked that time.


That’s weird I was able to see them.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2102
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:07 pm

VC10er wrote:
...So, given DL,AA and WN I would assume UA must have AA in their crosshairs and possibly Delta down the road. But the domestic hole has got to be filled. So I can’t help but think UA is FURIOUS over the MAX!!!


Aren't year-end and fourth quarter results due out in about a week? That may give us some insight as to the impact of the 737-Max9 grounding.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
User avatar
adamblang
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:16 pm

unitedewr737 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
CALTECH wrote:

Unfortunately the images you posted aren't working, so I'm removing them. I think it's an issue with the image host? This happened a couple of weeks ago as well, but your second attempt worked that time.


That’s weird I was able to see them.

Some hosts prevent hot-linking from forum sites but don't detect the hot link until they've been viewed a few times.
 
ual763
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:37 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
Looks like UA added SFO/LAX/DEN-SMX and a seasonal MKE-SFO today. Any other new routes around the network?


The new MKE-SFO is great news! Big hole filled from MKE. Will this be on a 320/319?
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3234
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:00 pm

TrafficCop wrote:
calpsafltskeds wrote:
77W:

N2534U entered HKG 2734/7Jan for maint
N2135U entered XMN 2749/9Jan for maint


Just a question. Is there a chance on the United Fleet Sire on Google to show the date that an aircraft goes in Mod for Polaris?
Would give a general idea when it should exit.

Not that you need the extra work. As always thanks for all the work you do.

It's already available as one of the special pages on the Fleet Site. You can check the special pages in my signature.
There is a page with all mod/maint. units at all airports. NOTE: The guesses on return to service is based on roughly the shortest mod unit completed for that type and usually are several days or more short of returning to service.

The exact page for Polaris mods is here.
https://sites.google.com/site/unitedfle ... craftatsfo
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