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FSDan
Posts: 3312
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:04 pm

UAinAUS wrote:
CR7:
N153GJ exited service, at STL awaiting CR5 mod, will become N532GJ
N158GJ exited service, at STL awaiting CR5 mod, will become N537GJ
GoJet CR7 program has ended


Big milestone there! Are the the CR7s for the remaining conversions coming from Mesa?

UAinAUS wrote:
E75SC:
N624UA enters revenue service with ExpressJet 5Mar
N625UA enters revenue service with ExpressJet 5Mar


How long will these actually operate for ExpressJet before being given to SkyWest?
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2086
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:57 pm

jayunited wrote:
I don't know if UA 777 pilot or a UA pilot in general can chime in here and clear this up because you do make a great point about using 737s to ferry the crew to HKG or XMN instead of a 777. If we use the island hopper as an example GUM-TKK-PNI-KWA-MAJ-HNL (or vice versa) this entire route is on a 737 staffed with 4 pilots and the hopper is an extremely long day from beginning to end. So I'm not sure why UA is utilizing empty widebodies to shuttle the crews around between GUM and either HKG or XMN perhaps there is something in their contract that we don't know about.


Pinto wrote:
From my limited time looking at UA Giam schedules they seem pretty tight. I would imagine that they don't have any spare time to do a GUM-HKG-GUM run.


According to my source, the 737 aircraft and 737 pilot availability is the issue here. As the GUM ops have been shrunken in the last few years, UA has left little surplus available in GUM (there is some, but not much). And because there are often a day (or three) delay in the heavies coming out of maintenance AND that there are a large surplus of 777s and 777 pilots right now, the current plan is the most convenient and controllable.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 214
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:02 pm

FSDan wrote:
Big milestone there! Are the the CR7s for the remaining conversions coming from Mesa?

How long will these actually operate for ExpressJet before being given to SkyWest?


All 20 of Mesa’s CR7s will be converted, as well as more Skywest and Horizon aircraft that have been stored.

ExpressJet’s entire E175 fleet will transfer to Skywest by March 2021
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:10 pm

Any speculation on which widebodies get parked?
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:59 pm

codc10 wrote:
Any speculation on which widebodies get parked?


Perhaps things that make fleet scheduling easier? Three remaining IPTE 777's (soon to be two), three remaining GE 772's. Next, remaining 7x two class 763's?

I'm sure they will fire up the paint lines during this unfortunate period, along with any planned maintenance.
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 612
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:01 pm

fun2fly wrote:
codc10 wrote:
Any speculation on which widebodies get parked?


Perhaps things that make fleet scheduling easier? Three remaining IPTE 777's (soon to be two), three remaining GE 772's. Next, remaining 7x two class 763's?

I'm sure they will fire up the paint lines during this unfortunate period, along with any planned maintenance.


The problem with saying they can ramp up the conversion or paint lines is cash. Given the unknown aspect of the timeline, they may not want to spend the cash to accelerate things. It becomes a balancing act of the balance sheet :)
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:03 pm

United isn’t parking these airplanes to spend money on them.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2854
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:40 pm

codc10 wrote:
United isn’t parking these airplanes to spend money on them.


Right now the airports that I'm hearing UA management is looking at to park aircraft are CLE, IAH, HOU and perhaps IAD. With just the Asian reductions both SFO and EWR are out of room no more aircraft can be parked at these locations.

All of this was just announced internally today there will be more concrete information available on March 7th according to our leaders. But from what I've heard UA is not planning on sending any aircraft to the dessert or planning to retire any aircraft because there is still uncertainty as around how COVID-19 will respond as the temperature warms. From what I've heard (this is not rumor) UA wants to be in a position to add capacity back into the market if the virus behaves like the flu virus and the number of cases begin dropping and people resume traveling.

This is also the reason UA is offering unpaid time off to employees not layoffs (yet). Each department can choose how much block time up to six months but from what I'm hearing many departments will begin offering employees 1-3 weeks, 1 month, or 2-3 months off without pay. Instead of only offering 3 months or 6 months at a time (the entire block). The thinking is if you may not get enough volunteers to take 3 whole months off but you might have a lot of people in your department who may want to take 1 week or 2 weeks without pay. By breaking it down there may be more takers than just offering a block 3-6 months without pay. Each operations manager at some point will have meeting with their leadership team to try and figure out options that work best for their employees, and this is across the board.

Having said that here is the really bad news while UA is only planning to trim domestic capacity by 10% and international capacity by 20% (and this will be on a rolling bases meaning for now this just effects the March and April, they are assessing and will continue to assess May and June. If the situation does not improve then May and June will be reduced 10% domestically and 20% internationally next up would be July and August.) However if the situation has not improved by September then that is when the hammer will drop (I took that to mean major cuts domestically and internationally) and that is all that I can say on that. Finger crossed it does not come to that.
 
Pi7472000
Posts: 199
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:19 pm

Are there plans by United to get rid of things like bag fees or make their mileage program more customer friendly again?

I would hope the management of UA is trying to be proactive to attract passengers during this time by limiting fees. It is nice they did away with change fees for bookings in March.

Hope UA can survive COVID19! I have mostly enjoyed my experiences on UA over the years. They have implemented some really unfriendly customer policies though which do not help attract travelers under COVID19 conditions.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:27 pm

Pi7472000 wrote:
Are there plans by United to get rid of things like bag fees or make their mileage program more customer friendly again?

I would hope the management of UA is trying to be proactive to attract passengers during this time by limiting fees. It is nice they did away with change fees for bookings in March.

Hope UA can survive COVID19! I have mostly enjoyed my experiences on UA over the years. They have implemented some really unfriendly customer policies though which do not help attract travelers under COVID19 conditions.

They just raised bag fees, so...no. If they're going to get rid of anything, it should be preferred seat fees. They got rid of change fees for the month, because ticket sales have plummeted, not because they want you to change flights.
 
VC10er
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:06 am

They are running major mileage bonuses for trips bought and flown over the next few months. Especially if you purchase a PREMIUM seat.
I feel bad for all travel and hospitality businesses.

I'm far from a germaphobe- but it's even crossed my mind to bring antiseptic wipes.

Last, for those who lost their GS status for 2020, UA has provided a purchase and fly by April 30th a certain about to get your GS back. It will be far more difficult to reach that spend goal when one can find a RT from EWR to BOM RT for $3500 in Polaris!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:20 am

I would imagine they'd want to park the planes that have already been paid off, so probably the 763s and 772s. I'm still hoping the whole thing will blow over in short order.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
dmstorm22
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:28 am

VC10er wrote:
They are running major mileage bonuses for trips bought and flown over the next few months. Especially if you purchase a PREMIUM seat.
I feel bad for all travel and hospitality businesses.

I'm far from a germaphobe- but it's even crossed my mind to bring antiseptic wipes.

Last, for those who lost their GS status for 2020, UA has provided a purchase and fly by April 30th a certain about to get your GS back. It will be far more difficult to reach that spend goal when one can find a RT from EWR to BOM RT for $3500 in Polaris!


I do wonder if this persists a long time if UA is forced to let people carry-over their status for 2021, or at least relax some of the requirements.

There's a lot of people (like me) who don't spend nearly enough for GS, but are generally right in the 1K range who may not travel as much if my company freezes travel, making qualifying for 1K a challenge - especially given the new focus on $ over all.

Obviously individual cases won't do it, but if enough complain I can see something happening - especially if this lasts through the summer season.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:29 am

https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/U ... o-12956697

"The airline is suspending service between four hubs and 10 cities through June."

"It will suspend all nonstop flights between SFO and New Orleans, Fort Lauderdale and Bentonville, Ark., through June 4, but will continue to serve these cities through other hubs."

ORD-EUG as well
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
scairbus
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United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:09 am

For the first time in a long time, an upgrade is looking like it’s going to clear on my way home this Friday (I’m a 1K based in SFO, used to GS destroying any hope). I’d upfare if it weren’t for more seats coming available the closer I get to the flight.

This and $20 fares from Alaska tonight... this is not good at all for the airlines.

I easily spend the 1k PQD/PQP, but not if 6 months of flying is cut out (my company has suspended all internal travel).
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:49 pm

319:
N837UA entered LCQ 2759/5Mar, expect 12F config mod
N892UA entered SFO 2228/3Mar, expect 12F config mod

789:
N29968 sked to exit XMN 2697/5Mar in Polaris/PP. STC unit with 1st 789 Polaris mod.
Crew arriving on RT ferry from GUM using N219UA
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:34 pm

Photos of the first true-Polaris 789:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/new-unite ... reamliner/
 
Kno
Posts: 547
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:06 pm

Should we expect the fleet to be repainted more rapidly due to the virus?
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4290
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:14 pm

I doubt it. The uncertainty will cause the company to reduce expenditures to preserve cash flow.
 
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Polot
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:30 pm

There also needs to be available open paint bays. It’s not like planes are just painted while parked out on the tarmac.
 
redrooster3
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:03 pm

The disappearance of the lighted up "Polaris" plaque in the business class cabin and at the boarding door shows me United is already watering down the Hard product of this awesome seat. The lighted up Polaris Plaque is on the Low-J 767s and some of the earlier 77Ws. But the retrofitted 772s/Hi-J 767s/787s/ newer 77Ws all not having that stylish plaque shows a lack of caring in my honesty. Why is there no mood lighting either on the retrofitted birds?
Marry one of us, and you'll fly for free!
 
VC10er
Posts: 4264
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:11 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
They are running major mileage bonuses for trips bought and flown over the next few months. Especially if you purchase a PREMIUM seat.
I feel bad for all travel and hospitality businesses.

I'm far from a germaphobe- but it's even crossed my mind to bring antiseptic wipes.

Last, for those who lost their GS status for 2020, UA has provided a purchase and fly by April 30th a certain about to get your GS back. It will be far more difficult to reach that spend goal when one can find a RT from EWR to BOM RT for $3500 in Polaris!


I do wonder if this persists a long time if UA is forced to let people carry-over their status for 2021, or at least relax some of the requirements.

There's a lot of people (like me) who don't spend nearly enough for GS, but are generally right in the 1K range who may not travel as much if my company freezes travel, making qualifying for 1K a challenge - especially given the new focus on $ over all.

Obviously individual cases won't do it, but if enough complain I can see something happening - especially if this lasts through the summer season.


I was GS last year but didn't make the cut for 2020. However I got an email from United saying if I spent and flew $18,000 worth by end of April my GS would be restored. That would normally be easy for me given my job. But the fares are so low on many flights it will be more difficult. EWR to BOM was only $3,400 RT in Polaris on a 77W! My RT 787-10 EWR/LAX was only about $1300? BUT, I think I will get that giant mileage bonus.

I'm not a germaphobe at all!!! But it would be my luck to be first in Manhattan. I was 32 back in 1992 when I got a DVT from flying. I was in the hospital for a week! (also the doctor’s treated me like patient Zero for Flight related blood clots)
So, am I crazy to bring Clorox wipes with me? They were about $5.99 for the travel size on Amazon, today the same item I bought about 2 months ago is now $44!

I'm I silly for NOT being afraid?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:28 am

738:
N12218 exited AMA 2706/5Mar in EvoBlu livery
 
blacksoviet
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:43 am

Why doesn’t Oscar Munoz paint an aircraft in the retro Battleship “Worldwide Service” livery or the “Rising Blue”?
 
ual4life
Posts: 40
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:22 am

Because it would defeat the one airline campaign. Maybe if folks weren’t so polarizing with their former airlines of preference we would have had a couple by now!

And no you aren’t silly for not being afraid. The hype train has derailed.
NNVII
 
fun2fly
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:35 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Why doesn’t Oscar Munoz paint an aircraft in the retro Battleship “Worldwide Service” livery or the “Rising Blue”?


Completely agree...I was in DEN Tues and saw the 747 retro BA livery...wow. Had as many people looking at that as the Star Wars UA 737 a few gates down.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:32 pm

fun2fly wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Why doesn’t Oscar Munoz paint an aircraft in the retro Battleship “Worldwide Service” livery or the “Rising Blue”?


Completely agree...I was in DEN Tues and saw the 747 retro BA livery...wow. Had as many people looking at that as the Star Wars UA 737 a few gates down.

Yes, but BA has their own retro themes and from mergers from back in the 70's. You'll notice, they don't have a British Midland theme or even a British Caledonian livery. AA is the only airline that is celebrating recent mergers, and that is because they have so many work groups to represent. UA just has two very large groups, and some people's resentment is just starting to ease.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:35 pm

fun2fly wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Why doesn’t Oscar Munoz paint an aircraft in the retro Battleship “Worldwide Service” livery or the “Rising Blue”?


Completely agree...I was in DEN Tues and saw the 747 retro BA livery...wow. Had as many people looking at that as the Star Wars UA 737 a few gates down.

I went through DEN on Wednesday. They actually parked the UA retrojet next to the CO retrojet. There were a few employees trying to take picture, but with the gate angles, it wasn't ideal. Very cool to see though.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

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codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:56 pm

ual4life wrote:
Because it would defeat the one airline campaign. Maybe if folks weren’t so polarizing with their former airlines of preference we would have had a couple by now!

And no you aren’t silly for not being afraid. The hype train has derailed.


Sad but true. The Battleship livery also represents a particularly turbulent period for United (ESOP, SFH, 9/11, Ch. 11), inclusive of a time where thousands of current employees made tremendous concessions and simultaneously lost pensions, share value, etc.

The distant retro-liveries create more touchy-feely nostalgia, combined with the fact that very few present employees (probably none in the case of the CO retrojet) were actually around for those respective eras.
 
xxcr
Posts: 468
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:43 pm

calpsafltskeds wrote:
319:
N895UA entered SFO 2055/28Feb, exited 685/3Mar in 16F config
N897UA exited LCQ 2759/11Feb in 16F config.
N898UA exited LCQ 2750/17Feb in 16F config

789:
N29977 sked first revenue flight 1981/6Mar ORD-SFO



for the A319 F mod, dont you mean 12F config?
 
xxcr
Posts: 468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:37 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:48 pm

scairbus wrote:
For the first time in a long time, an upgrade is looking like it’s going to clear on my way home this Friday (I’m a 1K based in SFO, used to GS destroying any hope). I’d upfare if it weren’t for more seats coming available the closer I get to the flight.

This and $20 fares from Alaska tonight... this is not good at all for the airlines.

I easily spend the 1k PQD/PQP, but not if 6 months of flying is cut out (my company has suspended all internal travel).


lol, i know your pain!! im also 1K and SFO based.
 
n92r03
Posts: 531
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:46 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:10 pm

I noticed UA has a 772 scheduled for EWR-TPA-EWR starting March 29, also looks like more 757's between EWR/IAD and TPA. Anyone have a list of upgauged routes? I'm guessing this will be temporary, maybe 30 days at least to start out.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:05 pm

Nobody seems to be up in arms about other retro liveries.



Painting up a Flying Blue, a Battleship Gray, some of the meatball liveries would be fun.
 
fun2fly
Posts: 1607
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:16 pm

It's amazing how much buzz a specialty livery does...there had to be 30 people taking pics of the Star Wars plane. That's one's special with the interior. Some retro interiors on these to match the outside would be way too sweet!
 
UAinAUS
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:11 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:01 pm

UAX Update:

CR5:
N511GJ entered revenue service with GoJet
N534GJ entered revenue service with GoJet
28 total CR5s in service
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:43 pm

adamblang wrote:
Nobody seems to be up in arms about other retro liveries.



Painting up a Flying Blue, a Battleship Gray, some of the meatball liveries would be fun.

Those two liveries are from before the careers of any current employees. They are for fun, they don't represent a different time that employees "remember fondly." Someday we may see meatballs and UA's orange livery, but I doubt it for now.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1062
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:27 am

cosyr wrote:
adamblang wrote:
Nobody seems to be up in arms about other retro liveries.



Painting up a Flying Blue, a Battleship Gray, some of the meatball liveries would be fun.

Those two liveries are from before the careers of any current employees. They are for fun, they don't represent a different time that employees "remember fondly." Someday we may see meatballs and UA's orange livery, but I doubt it for now.


The meatball scheme comes from the Lorenzo era it would not go over well at all.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:24 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
cosyr wrote:
adamblang wrote:
Nobody seems to be up in arms about other retro liveries.



Painting up a Flying Blue, a Battleship Gray, some of the meatball liveries would be fun.

Those two liveries are from before the careers of any current employees. They are for fun, they don't represent a different time that employees "remember fondly." Someday we may see meatballs and UA's orange livery, but I doubt it for now.


The meatball scheme comes from the Lorenzo era it would not go over well at all.


Certainly not “from” the Lorenzo era, but the red meatball (as opposed to the original black tail logo in the ~1968 Saul Bass “Contrails” scheme) undoubtedly came to symbolize it.
 
VC10er
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:57 am

Way too soon for tulips and meatballs!

As much as I love the tulip, I've got some amazing memorabilia with it: Evo blue is an ”OK” livery when it comes to BRAND STRATEGY and not design. It is not for me (a 58 year old) who's put in my 3 million miles...it's for the next generation of business fliers who do not know who Farrah Fawcett was, or even Donna Summer and do not even recall much of any president before GWB (maybe a bit of Bill Clinton)

A brand can only look backwards for supporting historical roots when it has achieved its FORWARD VISION!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
strfyr51
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:05 am

VC10er wrote:
N649DL wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:

Agreed. Would have loved to see Sky Interior bins/lighting like some of the DL 752s, but this works for the remaining 4-5 years.


Also not replacing the overhead panels and exit signs. The best benefit is for coach passengers with updated IFE.

It's a "Meh" upgrade at best. If they brought more 757s in from the desert and did the same, I'd be a little more excited. Delta's retrofit of the 757s has been far more impressive. AA's Y seats on the refurbishment of the 757 with AA seem to have more padding than UA as well.


Did Delta’s 752’s have an equal amount of life left as UA’s 752’s?

I who know nothing: I wonder how many years of take of and landings can UA actually get out of their 752’s before they are overall just too old and fatigued to safely keep flying?

Also, over the past handful of years since UA had its FIRST TRUE Polaris seat flying (I assume that was the first 77W?) Has Delta undergone a ”similar in magnitude” fleet refurbishment as UA has been doing with their enormous fleet of wide-body aircraft, Polaris Lounges, new UC clubs, new gate areas etc.

It just ”seems” (and naturally I could be wrong) that United required an absolutely enormous and hugely expensive and massive logistical plan to refurb EVERYTHING ”BIG” by the end of 2020 or Q1 of 2021 AND acquired ”how many?” 77W’s, 789’s and 78-10’s and 3 used 763’s in total which all together cost???
Perhaps a line needed to be drawn at making the 752’s look brand new inside from a sky ceiling, new First Class and lavatories down to the newest ashtrays?
They held on for so long waiting for Boeing to provide the answer aircraft (797).

So, realistically: how long can UA’s 752’s keep flying? Is it 5 years? 10 years?

to be real? There IS no life limit on many commercial airplanes. It only depends on how much you're willing to spend at every heavy check starting with the C-checks, And how much more you're willing to spend at the D-check/ Overhaul,, Other than that? It's parts availability and Expense.
 
N649DL
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:51 am

strfyr51 wrote:
VC10er wrote:
N649DL wrote:

Also not replacing the overhead panels and exit signs. The best benefit is for coach passengers with updated IFE.

It's a "Meh" upgrade at best. If they brought more 757s in from the desert and did the same, I'd be a little more excited. Delta's retrofit of the 757s has been far more impressive. AA's Y seats on the refurbishment of the 757 with AA seem to have more padding than UA as well.


Did Delta’s 752’s have an equal amount of life left as UA’s 752’s?

I who know nothing: I wonder how many years of take of and landings can UA actually get out of their 752’s before they are overall just too old and fatigued to safely keep flying?

Also, over the past handful of years since UA had its FIRST TRUE Polaris seat flying (I assume that was the first 77W?) Has Delta undergone a ”similar in magnitude” fleet refurbishment as UA has been doing with their enormous fleet of wide-body aircraft, Polaris Lounges, new UC clubs, new gate areas etc.

It just ”seems” (and naturally I could be wrong) that United required an absolutely enormous and hugely expensive and massive logistical plan to refurb EVERYTHING ”BIG” by the end of 2020 or Q1 of 2021 AND acquired ”how many?” 77W’s, 789’s and 78-10’s and 3 used 763’s in total which all together cost???
Perhaps a line needed to be drawn at making the 752’s look brand new inside from a sky ceiling, new First Class and lavatories down to the newest ashtrays?
They held on for so long waiting for Boeing to provide the answer aircraft (797).

So, realistically: how long can UA’s 752’s keep flying? Is it 5 years? 10 years?

to be real? There IS no life limit on many commercial airplanes. It only depends on how much you're willing to spend at every heavy check starting with the C-checks, And how much more you're willing to spend at the D-check/ Overhaul,, Other than that? It's parts availability and Expense.


Whatever DL did, they obviously took their NW Best Practices and completely gutted them and retrofitted them with AVOD nose to tail with new overheads and sidewalls, etc. Some even have no winglets so if you're onboard the aircraft, you would assume it's brand new. They're paid off, and it's even mentioned this week that if the Coronavirus hit travel demand, they'd be the first to be parked. However it's not likely as the M88s and M90s will go first.

UA in 2012-2013 did the same thing as DL with 15 selected frames for the PS operation, then left JFK (and now only 13 in operation) making it a really odd sub-fleet as they have different engines than the ex-CO fleet. Some are newer (built 1997-1999) others are over 30 years-old. My issue is UA didn't onboard many of these high J 757s for domestic operations for backup and they always seem to be having issues. Whereas, DL did this for much of their 757 domestic operations (most delivered between 1990 and 2001) after UA sold 30 of them to FedEx for quick cash. The oldest variants from 1989-1990 at DL are in a VIP / NBA charter configuration (swapped them out for the former NW 319s going back to domestic instead) but are in low cycle mode with 72 F seats.

UA still have some stored should they need them (the MAX ban being a significant drag for them) but seem to be most focused on maintaining their 763 fleet for Polaris. They keep changing their mind about how this will go, but I'm thinking it's likely with the 3 ex-HA frames now active, all 38 will stay around for a while.
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3223
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:01 am

319:
Oops, N895/897/898UA aere in 12F config.
N802UA exited LCQ 2747/6Mar in 12F config.
N892UA sked to exit SFO 2337/8Mar with 12F config.

772:
N797UA sked to exit XMN 2689/7Mar in Polaris/PP config.
 
tpaewr
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 9:01 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:52 am

CriticalPoint wrote:
cosyr wrote:
adamblang wrote:
Nobody seems to be up in arms about other retro liveries.



Painting up a Flying Blue, a Battleship Gray, some of the meatball liveries would be fun.

Those two liveries are from before the careers of any current employees. They are for fun, they don't represent a different time that employees "remember fondly." Someday we may see meatballs and UA's orange livery, but I doubt it for now.


The meatball scheme comes from the Lorenzo era it would not go over well at all.



The “meatball” was Saul Bass logo (same guy as the Tulip) it rolled out under Robert Six in 1968, the same era as CO first Pacific Ops.

Frank was in his late 20s and not remotely involved.
 
UA444
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:30 am

codc10 wrote:
ual4life wrote:
Because it would defeat the one airline campaign. Maybe if folks weren’t so polarizing with their former airlines of preference we would have had a couple by now!

And no you aren’t silly for not being afraid. The hype train has derailed.


Sad but true. The Battleship livery also represents a particularly turbulent period for United (ESOP, SFH, 9/11, Ch. 11), inclusive of a time where thousands of current employees made tremendous concessions and simultaneously lost pensions, share value, etc.

The distant retro-liveries create more touchy-feely nostalgia, combined with the fact that very few present employees (probably none in the case of the CO retrojet) were actually around for those respective eras.

United was by far the best airline in the 1990s, IMO, and immensely enjoyable as a customer. That was a time when the airline grew, especially abroad, took on many modern aircraft like the 744, 319/320, and 777. The product back then was really good and they were truly a global airline and innovative one. Things like e-tickets, easy checkin, founding Star Alliance, launching the 777, new DEN, and Shuttle (which was enormously successful prior to 9/11). Regardless of how 9/11 hurt UA and helped steer them to a Ch11, I’ve never once talked to a UA employee in my travels that didn’t love United. Certain CEOs? Maybe. But they loved UA.

I didn’t like the Battleship when it came out and I would never choose it over the Rainbow livery, but at this point I’d give a kidney to see even a shred of UA.
 
codc10
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:37 am

UA444 wrote:
codc10 wrote:
ual4life wrote:
Because it would defeat the one airline campaign. Maybe if folks weren’t so polarizing with their former airlines of preference we would have had a couple by now!

And no you aren’t silly for not being afraid. The hype train has derailed.


Sad but true. The Battleship livery also represents a particularly turbulent period for United (ESOP, SFH, 9/11, Ch. 11), inclusive of a time where thousands of current employees made tremendous concessions and simultaneously lost pensions, share value, etc.

The distant retro-liveries create more touchy-feely nostalgia, combined with the fact that very few present employees (probably none in the case of the CO retrojet) were actually around for those respective eras.

United was by far the best airline in the 1990s, IMO, and immensely enjoyable as a customer. That was a time when the airline grew, especially abroad, took on many modern aircraft like the 744, 319/320, and 777. The product back then was really good and they were truly a global airline and innovative one. Things like e-tickets, easy checkin, founding Star Alliance, launching the 777, new DEN, and Shuttle (which was enormously successful prior to 9/11). Regardless of how 9/11 hurt UA and helped steer them to a Ch11, I’ve never once talked to a UA employee in my travels that didn’t love United. Certain CEOs? Maybe. But they loved UA.

I didn’t like the Battleship when it came out and I would never choose it over the Rainbow livery, but at this point I’d give a kidney to see even a shred of UA.


I am not beholden to liveries and symbolism, but you’re missing a major point if you simply gloss over the long-term structural issues that led to United’s bankruptcy... it wasn’t just 9/11.

United’s employees sacrificed tremendous promised value in the form of the failed ESOP, post-9/11 concessions and canceled pensions that were directly tied to management incompetence.

United management rode the 90s boom times HARD... and the fall was indicative of it. Sadly it was born by the rank-and-file, not the people who sold them down the river.
 
UA444
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:02 am

codc10 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
codc10 wrote:

Sad but true. The Battleship livery also represents a particularly turbulent period for United (ESOP, SFH, 9/11, Ch. 11), inclusive of a time where thousands of current employees made tremendous concessions and simultaneously lost pensions, share value, etc.

The distant retro-liveries create more touchy-feely nostalgia, combined with the fact that very few present employees (probably none in the case of the CO retrojet) were actually around for those respective eras.

United was by far the best airline in the 1990s, IMO, and immensely enjoyable as a customer. That was a time when the airline grew, especially abroad, took on many modern aircraft like the 744, 319/320, and 777. The product back then was really good and they were truly a global airline and innovative one. Things like e-tickets, easy checkin, founding Star Alliance, launching the 777, new DEN, and Shuttle (which was enormously successful prior to 9/11). Regardless of how 9/11 hurt UA and helped steer them to a Ch11, I’ve never once talked to a UA employee in my travels that didn’t love United. Certain CEOs? Maybe. But they loved UA.

I didn’t like the Battleship when it came out and I would never choose it over the Rainbow livery, but at this point I’d give a kidney to see even a shred of UA.


I am not beholden to liveries and symbolism, but you’re missing a major point if you simply gloss over the long-term structural issues that led to United’s bankruptcy... it wasn’t just 9/11.

United’s employees sacrificed tremendous promised value in the form of the failed ESOP, post-9/11 concessions and canceled pensions that were directly tied to management incompetence.

United management rode the 90s boom times HARD... and the fall was indicative of it. Sadly it was born by the rank-and-file, not the people who sold them down the river.

I don’t disagree that 9/11 was not the crux of their problems, they had costs that soared above the rest of the industry and it came back to bite them when the good times ended. There was already signs of it in late 2000 and early 2001 with many Asian counties’ economies declining and the .com bubble bursting, both of which affected UA disproportionately.

But I still believe that the BK could’ve either been avoided or at least delayed if not for 9/11 and the downturn that ensued. Either giving them more time in order to right the ship without the BK or some sort of wake up call that something needed to be done and fast. Perhaps some of the hardships the front line employees had to endure don’t happen or are lessened in this timeline.

https://youtu.be/V2GWidUjvRY

Tilton at 16 minutes basically describes how they aspired to be the “high cost carrier” prior to 9/11 and the BK.
 
LGeneReese
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:36 am

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:19 pm

789
N29978 B1 7Mar CHSCHS.
N29975 Still layed up in ORD with the busted wing... Boeing Team working hard at it I hear.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5252
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Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:22 pm

April Coronavirus cuts from SFO I have seen:

All down to 1x daily
IND-SFO
PIT-SFO
CLE-SFO
STL-SFO
RDU-SFO
PHL-SFO
TPA-SFO

Down to 2x Daily
MCO-SFO

Suspended
MSY-SFO
XNA-SFO
FLL-SFO

Other changes, I saw:
SFO-SEA -1
SEA-EWR -1
SEA-IAH -1
SEA-ORD -2
SEA-DEN -1
SFO-DEN -1
MCO-DEN -2
TPA-DEN -1
SFO-LAS -2
SFO-ORD -2
SFO-DFW -1
EWR-FCO down to 2x weekly
EWR-MXP decreased down to 1x weekly (Not sure on this one)

Lots of others, the OAG thread is going to be long tomorrow
Last edited by Midwestindy on Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
TYSflyer
Posts: 310
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:44 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:28 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
April Coronavirus cuts from SFO I have seen:

All down to 1x daily
IND-SFO
PIT-SFO
CLE-SFO
STL-SFO
RDU-SFO
PHL-SFO
TPA-SFO

Down to 2x Daily
MCO-SFO

Suspended
MSY-SFO
XNA-SFO
FLL-SFO

Other changes, I saw:
SFO-SEA -1
SEA-EWR -1
SEA-IAH -1
SEA-ORD Only 2x daily
SEA-DEN -1
SFO-DEN -1 or -2
MCO-DEN -2
TPA-DEN -1
SFO-LAS -2
SFO-ORD -2
SFO-DFW -1
EWR-FCO down to 2x weekly
EWR-MXP decreased down to 1x weekly (Not sure on this one)

Lots of others, the OAG thread is going to be long tomorrow

There are a good number of reductions for April out of IAD as well. It seems many markets are losing one frequency there for the month.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1145
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: United Fleet, Network, & Livery Thread - 2020

Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:33 pm

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